#why aren't aroace characters enough?

[greenteaandtattoos]

Yeah, hi, so,

I have a better idea:

✨Let aroace characters be aroace✨ challenge 2024 [impossible]

[codthefishgod]

To all the people who think aspec people aren't LGBTQIA+ because we aren't "discriminated against enough", here's a lovely list of reasons why you need to educate yourself:

- We suffer from dehumanisation, people actively devaluing or even erasing our humanity because of our identities (The voidpunk community is heavily supported by aspec people because of this)

- We suffer from self hatred due to feeling as if and being told we are broken, that no one can be happy unless they're in a romantic/sexual relationship, because of allonormativity and amatonormativity that actively damages our mental health

- Amatonormativity shapes laws that put us at an active disadvantage, such as giving married people financial and legal benefits

- Aspec people have been victims of conversion therapy, correctional rape, a lower quality of life, and other effects of being a marginalised and oppressed group

- We suffer from our identities being pathologised and deal with medical stigma because of this, causing many of us to feel unwelcome in and even avoid health care settings

- We suffer from our identities being erased, which can range from people completely denying our existence and people equating it to celibacy, to an almost complete absence of aspec representation in the media (It's been getting better lately, especially for alloaces and aroaces, but I have yet to ever see a canon aroallo character, and representation for those on the spectrum rather than in the extremes is often ignored)

- YOU are creating a hateful, exclusionary space in a community meant to be about inclusion. The same thing that happens to us happens to bisexual people, to polyamorous people, and other identities that are "disputed." In a community meant to be about rejecting the norm, YOU are shoving us out because we don't fit the norm of being LGBTQIA+. Because we're not enough like you.

These are only a few examples of aphobia that people like me deal with. Discrimination and oppression against aspec people stretches far beyond this.

But even if it didn't, it is disrespectful and harmful to everyone involved to gatekeep membership in the community based on oppression and discrimination.

We aren't LGBTQIA+ because we experience oppression. We are LGBTQIA+ because our existence alone goes against heteronormativity and other societal norms forced upon us.

[nekropsii]

Wild how when I call Shipping Culture oppressively pervasive and awful for any Aro/Ace with the gall to enjoy anything on the Internet, I get called a Fun-Hating Killjoy and told to just shut the fuck up or off myself, no matter how mild or polite my comment is. Wild how when I say a character either is textually Aro/Ace or is easier to read as Aro/Ace than Alloromantic/sexual, people start talking down to me like I'm a child who doesn't know anything, saying "Friendly reminder that Aro(s)/Aces can Date/Have Sex too, just like us Normal People!". As if I don't know anything about my own identity. Wild how when I do either of these things or even just say I'm not into a pairing or uninvested in shipping in general people call me fucking homophobic, even if the (at least popularly perceived - let's be honest, people are wrong half the time) genders of the characters is never once made relevant. Even though their reasoning for me being homophobic is lack of investment in a gay pairing they like, and nothing more. Wild how people throw little baby tantrums at even the gentlest criticism of Shipping Culture, or someone choosing not to engage heavily in it. Wild how they have the audacity to ask, with hostility, what the fuck Aro(s)/Aces are talking about when they say Shipping Culture is hostile to Aro/Ace fans, or ask what's wrong with them when they say that they aren't into Shipping.

It's almost like Bigots don't realize they're being Bigots when they do Bigotry, so just saying you're not a Bigot isn't enough. It's almost like Aro/Ace people know what the hell they're talking about. It's almost like we have a fucking point. It's almost like we're valid in expressing contempt and frustration with the constant expectation to engage with Romance and Sexuality at every waking moment, even if we're Romance and/or Sex Favorable. It's almost like we're tired of getting our identities erased, and we're tired of expecting to "act normal", and we're tired of just taking it when Allos use the Favorable members of our communities as a scapegoat for why they should be allowed to totally erase any of our representation just for their "Harmless Queer Fun" - deliberately, and I mean DELIBERATELY, failing to recognize or acknowledge the character's orientation, and how an A-Spec's personal relationship with and expressions of Love are going to look drastically different from an Allo person's - and call us the Bigots when we even glance in the direction of objection.

It's almost like Allo/Amatonormativity are oppressive forces.

Alloromantics/sexuals are constantly looking for any reason they can to call Aro(s)/Aces unloving, unfeeling, frigid, soulless, cruel. Inhuman. They're looking for any reason they can to call us whiny children, stupid, people who "just haven't found the right one", addressing us only as "Works in Progress", or someone who can have their sexuality corrected with the right stimulus - Conversion Therapy and Corrective Rape are okay when it happens to us, after all. Any reason at all to call us heartless monsters. AlloAces are confused children. They can be fixed. AroAllos are manipulative, unfeeling sexual predators. They can't be fixed - just kill them. AroAces are frigid, mean bitches. They can be fixed. God forbid you're Aplatonic. God forbid you're part of the Repulsed spectrum. God forbid you're one of the Loveless. God forbid you hold any pride in your identity, God forbid you don't keep your mouth shut, God forbid you critique the overinflated importance Allos place onto Love as a concept. God forbid you critique something as asinine and juvenile as fucking Shipping Culture. Do any one of these and you've put a bright red, blazing neon target on your back.

Wild how the only real humans amongst us are the Romance, Sex, and Friendship Favorable who put their head down and mask as Allo, and side with the Allos when their fellow A-Specs get too loud for the comfort of their Allo friend's delicate little fee-fees. After all, Vitriol and Harassment are warranted when an Allo's feelings get slightly hurt that an Aro person says, on their own account, to no one in particular, that they're sick of every tag being 80% Shipping Content. Which is a vehemently evil personal attack, clearly.

Wild.

[alastors-antlers]

Why Alastor is good aroace rep after all, written by an aroace

Hello all! I just want to start off this post by saying that I'm one person who definitely doesn't speak for all aroaces, but I wanted to make a post on this anyway, and maybe some folk would be interested in hearing out another perspective?

I'm not really caught up on everything that's been said over the course of HH's creation - only more recent interviews, since I'm pretty new to the fandom. Apologies if I've missed anything, but also I do not have the time to keep up with all the out-of-canon-material backstory unfortunately. I'm working with what we've got here.

So here's the thing:

Alastor is cruel, he's narcissistic, he doesn't care about anyone except himself, he's a serial killer and a monster.

(That's the argument I've heard - please tell me if that's not really what people are going for lol, in which case I've totally misunderstood?)

The issue with aroace rep when it paints asexual people with those traits is that it aims to dehumanizes them. Sex and love are essential to the human experience, right? So why wouldn't someone be interested? Because they're self-absorbed, and cold, and detached. They don't have the capacity to love others enough to feel romance.

And sure, Alastor is a killer, and a schemer, and prideful, and a monster by hell's standards. But no matter how above it all and stylish and in control and provocative he wants to be, he's a very human character, and his aroace-ness never serves to add to his alienation. You could even say that it makes him seem even more personable.

That's what I think is the key difference.

why he's human

Alastor's whole persona is about control, and he basically straight-up says this. He's controlling what his enemies know, what his public image is like. His goal is to be the Radio Demon -- overlord of Hell, charismatic, Machiavellian, and undefeatable. He's not. Despite that smile plastered over his face (a powerful tool, huh) he's so expressive for someone who's constantly pretending.

You see his exasperation with the Egg Bois and with Charlie's ranting; his nervousness in front of Zestial; his frustration with Lucifer and the petty lengths he goes to to piss off the ruler of Hell.

You see his desperation, making that deal with Charlie. He's surprised by the idea of being vulnerable in front of an enemy like Adam, and so close to danger. He drops the radio filter and the affect out of fear, and runs on broadcast TV to let out panic and anger and bitterness in his hideout, where no one else can see him.

He has a smile that tells us he's genuinely happy to see someone; it's a little wider than his default. You see it with Mimzy's greeting, you see it with Rosie. Rosie, especially, serves to make Alastor more human to the audience. More on this later, but for now, I'm just saying that you can see that he at least seems to respect her greatly. Whatever bond they have, we know that he trusts her to touch him, to share history with him, and with support that he trusts no one else for.

He pretends, but he can't pretend it all away. Loads of these emotions aren't even advantageous for him to show. It isn't necessarily how the typical asexual psychopath acts; he's not emotionless or only capable of anger or brutality.

He's so full of emotion that it leaks through, despite all that he does to avoid it. He's not inhuman and aloof, not really - he's so, so human, even when he tries not to be because he thinks that'll be what keeps him above all the rest. In control, and free from his chains.

(If anyone wants to see images about all this, I'll make a separate post - just let me know.)

(I also have another post, talking about why Alastor is at least a little attached to the hotel's residents too, shown via conversation with Niffty. In what way? different question.)

how the aroace part contributes to that

Now, to be fair, we don't hear much about his aroaceness in canon. It's just not relevant a lot of the time.

In the pilot, Angel's proposition ruffles his feathers so much that Alastor blanks for a moment. It's a joke, sure, but that ace panic face is a pretty popular Alastor moment in the fandom - Alastor, thrown off-balance by a sex joke of all things, after so many years in Hell that he should probably be used to this.

It's a moment that makes him more approachable; his aroaceness shows him unprepared for something someone else does for one of the only real moments in the whole episode.

And the other part: the ace in the hole statement.

Rosie apparently knows Alastor so well that she read that he's aroace. That tells us about their relationship; namely, that it is long-standing and genuine enough that she gleaned a piece of real information from him. It's a casual fact that she knows about him before he even figured it out himself. It lends legitimacy to their bond - this bond that shows us a more comfortable and warm side of Alastor that we don't often see.

If their relationship is purely business, isn't this something pretty frivolous and personal? It's not like he has anything to gain by telling her about his life, but she learned about it somehow. How close are they? That's where it adds a layer of complexity and personality to his character..

thoughts on representation

Overall, Alastor's an interesting character who has a level of depth and care and personality (outside of cruelty) that asexual psychopath tropes lack. Again, the moments where he's being represented as disinterested in sex or romance don't make him seem detached. Again, they don't say "look how hostile toward relationships his behaviour is - how separate he is from our humanity". That's what bad villain ace rep is. That's not what the show's doing.

Also: I'm not saying that we need to lower our standards or anything, but even if you think it's not the best rep, I feel like we should be supporting HH's efforts here. I know that on Tumblr we have a pretty queer-friendly space going, which is honestly an understatement lol but

Aces are incredibly underrepresented in fiction. There's a whole Wikipedia page about asexual characters in media, and it's short as all hell, and even if you consider what's on there you see quite a number of one-off characters who are never mentioned again.

In terms of real life business - before the DSM updated their definition of hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) in 2013, identifying as asexual wasn't even a recognized thing. If you talked to a clinician about your lack of sexual desire, you could be diagnosed with a disorder. Only in the 5th edition do we now have a little exclusion footnote about it.

The concept of asexuality hasn't been explored nearly as much as other queer identities in our scientific research. We get crumbs in terms of mainstream representation and understanding. House M.D. has an episode where House "disproves" us because he's just so smart.

Alastor isn't going to be perfect representation. There's no such thing as perfect representation, and from the moment he was conceptualized, you could see how people would take him poorly. Still, I think he's a net positive.

He isn't a side character or a token ace - he's a core part of the show, whose personality and character motivations we can reasonably presume are going to be explored much more deeply in upcoming season(s). He's loved by the fandom. Right now, given what we know, I trust Vivziepop to write the aroace representation he deserves, because with the way I've heard the cast/directing/etc. talk about him, they're trying to do the aroace community justice, so I wish people would let up just a little on the whole "Alastor is bad rep".

Let's give him a chance, all right?

[celtrist]

Hazbin & Helluva Vs. Aromanticism

(Aka: I have a problem with the Spindlehorse team about this, not shippers.)

(Also this is mainly about Alastor but can go for Octavia and Mammon too.)

Alright, so I've cleaned up this uh... rant, to make things a little more clear hopefully. But to summarize here, this is about the team's lack of commitment when every other character is allowed full confirmation of their orientations but these (potentially) aromantic characters aren't.

While I have no beef with shippers (I think you can ship whoever with whoever you want, I ship Alastor too on occasion), there is some conversation about how the fandom might be a bit of a reason WHY they "can't" be confirmed as aro. But again, my main problem is more with the showrunners than the fandom at this point about this.

I'll also be getting into why it's "important" and the double standards against characters being aromantic.

This is not an attack, ship however way you wish (again, I do it myself). My intent isn't really to stop the shipping, that would be ridiculous. But more so to give my thoughts on why it's BS characters like Alastor can't be confirmed as aromantic when other characters are allowed confirmed orientations.

I will start off by saying I don't mind the shipping of Alastor. While it's NOBODY'S business but mine, I suppose it's important to clarify that I'm someone who does currently identify as aroace. I might be wrong but who cares, it's how I think of myself now at least to some degree (I do after all still have fictional crushes. Real-life romance is not an interest for me though, don't like 'em).

I'm gonna get what I don't think people talk about enough on both sides of being for and against shipping Alastor, and then I'll talk about the shippers as they're (I realized) not my main issue at this point.

A little history: So Alastor has been long time confirmed as an ace character. He hasn't been confirmed as being sex-repulsed or anything, but I can personally say I don't mind either flavor of him being repulsed or favorable (though I imagine the series will lean towards the former to counter everyone else's sex-favorable attitude and for jokes). This statement was initially taken VERY poorly by fans who, at the time, were shipping radiodust and radiobelle/charlastor, one more than the other. Care to take a guess which? The answer will not surprise you.

But then people realized "Oh, asexual doesn't mean he COULDN'T get with someone" and people even went further to "Being asexual doesn't mean he CAN'T have sex", both very true statements. So shipping was back on the menus boys! And his asexual was certainly blurred a bit (to the point where it wasn't even him being sex-favorable asexual as much as just not asexual, something that still happens but certainly not as bad). But overall, people were taking his canonicity as asexual with as much grace as a duck.

So here's where MY problem comes in. While I have some gripes with shippers, I had an epiphany that "Oh. It's not really the shippers I have a problem with. It's the people WRITING THE DAMN CHARACTER". Which, might I just say, is so much worst.

The shippers, while they got annoying at some points and certainly can be still, are just having fun. Because shipping just happens to be the way most people like to interact with characters in the media they're into. Hell, I am no different. I just have the misfortune of only really getting into rarepairs most of the time (curse you my bizarre tastes). I've even shipped with Alastor, I like AngelicSmile/radiojoy quite a bit.

Back on track. Now, what do I mean by my main problem being with the writers more than the fans with this? Well, queue this darling of a clip about the topic (this is the only clip I've found of the live stream, feel free to watch the whole video but just wanted the clip here).

This. Single. Clip. Infuriates me.

Vivzi, while I'm sure not meant to, pretty much implied "Alastor being aromantic and 'non-shippable' would ruin people's fun". I'm sure she meant it as a way to keep others from policing shippers (which didn't work, it still happens), it really just reads as "a character being aromantic is not a fun character". Like there's something wrong with being aro.

Not to mention some other things that would contradict this statement:

Viv in the past said "fans are allowed to ship outside character orientations", so... what makes that so different here with confirming Alastor as aromantic?

It being confirmed is not relevant to the plot. Great, so is every other orientation not relevant. Why can't Alastor be confirmed as aromantic but Vaggie can be confirmed as a lesbian or Vox bi? What does Vox being bisexual have to do with the plot? Neither is relevant to the plot, but one can be confirmed but not the other?

People were gonna ship him ANYWAY. Like, there's really no point in pretending. They were going to anyway because of the first point I already mentioned, but also people ship against canon orientations ALL THE TIME. It's just gonna happen and there's nothing wrong with that in of itself.

You've kind of just implied it's canon by not wanting to say specifically him being aromantic is canon or not. If Viv had just said "I don't wanna confirm his romantic orientation because...", then this statement would be fine and fair I suppose. But she had to call out him being aromantic specifically. And I mean, he COULD be something else (he was slated to be a couple with Mimzy originally after all), but the context doesn't seem like that would be the case. Plus, would she really feel the need to hold back from saying "Alastor is homoromantic" or biromantic or heteroroman- actually yes for that last one probably.

So riddle me this, with these points, why the FUCK would it be so wrong to confirm Alastor as a canonically aromantic icon and help get MORE REP for this very very very VERY underrepresented orientation? And I've thought of a few reasons to this, one of which being to avoid the same backlash that they got for Alastor being ace. Which, DID HAPPEN WHEN THE VOICE ACTOR AND SOMEONE ELSE ON THE SHOW CONFIRMED ALASTOR AS AROMANTIC BUT BACKTRACKED ON THE STATEMENT.

To which, fine. THAT'S on the fans (especially as no one would've complained if he was confirmed as homoromantic, which is a double standard VERY PRESENT in this fandom, but also many others quite honestly). But I can see another reason is to avoid others policing shippers about it.

Which, if that's the case, shit luck it's happening anyway.

To cower away from this orientation because of fans being upset says a lot, both about the fans and the creators. There is a whisper of "Alastor isn't allowed to be aromantic". That "being aro isn't allowed or appreciated".

We live in a world that at this point has a lot more lgbtq+ characters than ever before. At this point, there's just a lot of gay/lesbian and bi characters, and that's wonderful. But, there's barely a handful of aroace characters. And when they are, nobody wants to pay attention to that part of the character. So why can't the deer man be aromantic? I would imagine it would honestly make things a little better ship wise because ship wars wouldn't occur seeing as, well, there's no ship to be fought for. None of them could be canon.

So you might see where I'm leading into this, but I can only really think of one real reason Alastor being aromantic just "can't be confirmed" where as everyone else's orientations can be.

His popularity. Like, that's weird but walk with me here. Alastor is the most popular character in the fandom. There's honestly no denying it, he just is. And what do people do with the most popular character?

THEY SHIP THEM OFF IN A LOVEBOAT.

But wait, if he's aromantic, he can't be on a love boat. THIS IS BS-

And then... the outcry. And we HAVE seen this happen. I mentioned before, he was stated to be aromantic on two occasions by two people who work on the show, one of which is his voice actor (which I'll be fair, I personally don't think VAs always know the characters they play the best, that's the writers). But they had to backpedal because people DID complain. People WERE upset. So it's kind of shown just aromantism isn't really welcomed, at the very least not for a character like Alastor.

And that's the key: "Not for a character like Alastor". But if it were say, Niffty or Mimzy who are either overlooked or just not very popular, THEN it's probably more than okay for a character to be aromantic. Because no one wants to ship with them much, so they can be aromantic all they want.

AKA. The aro community is allowed the scraps but not the dinner.

At this point, you've probably noticed I switched gears from the creators to the fans because I DO think they could be a reason why Alastor "can't" be confirmed as Aromantic. I'll give credit, I'm pretty sure it's mainly on twitter and wouldn't be surprised if it was a "loud minority" thing going on, but the people have spoken. They vehemently cannot STAND the idea of Alastor being aromantic.

But I don't have a problem with these people quite honestly- I mean I kinda do, but my main issue is the lack of commitment when the other characters are allowed confirmed orientations. Why can't aromantic people get confirmed rep? Because "it'll ruin people's fun?" That's such a crappy reason because it's just saying being aro is bad on some level or isn't okay. Why can't the aromantic community get the dinner this ONE TIME? It's one character in a pool of many others that are canonically gay or bi, so why can't the aro community have this ONE popular character?

I'm not even asking for people to stop shipping him, I think that's perfectly FINE. It wouldn't change the canon. I'd appreciate more LOVE given to the aromantic identity (and I'm talking about the far end of it, so absolutely NO interest in romance as many have used aro Alastor but it still comes off as just normal shipping, but that's just me). There's such a double standard to the treatment of aromantic characters to the other characters in these shows (because Octavia and Mammon are in the same boat here), and the reasons given are so crappy that they sound more like off-hand excuses.

Again, I don't MIND people shipping Alastor, or Octavia, or Mammon who is randomly shipped with Adam the most. Let me repeat:

YOU. ARE. ALLOWED. TO. SHIP. THESE. CHARACTER.

But what I have a problem with is that these characters aren't allowed to be OFFICIALLY aromantic. How would it feel if this was a gay character? That they didn't want to confirm it but there's been indications with past statements and even in-universe stuff indicating so? I WANT Viv and her team to STICK with what route they were gonna go with.

And some might argue "what's so bad with nothing being confirmed?" Other than the fact every other character's orientations are allowed confirmation and Viv's crappy way of putting it in not confirming anything. There's, by all technicalities, nothing wrong.

However, if I may pose a counter, why is it fair for people to demand or ask for gay representation or confirmation but not aromantic? Because it's "not ruining anything"? If that's the case, I'm inclined to say that may be a bit aphobic. Because how is it that a character being aromantic can "ruin" the character or something, but a character being gay DOESN'T "ruin" the character. It's a double standard that I don't think most people realize or want to say because you don't want to be dissing on gay stuff.

But WAKE UP SHEEPLE. The gay stuff has PLENTY of things by this point. Whether through fan works or official media, it is growing and it is growing rapidly. And we should be HAPPY about that. But alternatively, Aromantic (and asexual) rep BARELY gets any attention in either fan works or official media. People would be UPSET if a ship like Angel Dust X Vaggie or Stolas X Verosika got into one of the top most popular ships. But Alastor? Nah, it's fine.

Again, while I don't mind the shipping itself, hopefully, you can understand how it might feel to see one of the most popular ships involve a character that goes against their orientation and it's YOUR orientation. It doesn't. Feel. Great.

And not everyone who ships Alastor even would LIKE him to end up with who they ship. Some people just like it staying in fanon. I have met SO MANY nice people who ship Alastor with characters that I personally don't really like him shipped with. But it's clear that I don't think THEY'D mind if he was confirmed aromantic because it doesn't change their life. They'll still keep shipping him because that's fun for them and that's FINE. People explore themselves through characters with confirmed orientations and they don't always line up with canon, and that's FINE. I don't think people should be policed on shipping with the deer man, they're just having fun. Would I appreciate a little more love for the aro identity? Sure (I mean just look at Alastor's ship weeks activeness vs. his aro week activeness), but if that's not how people have fun they shouldn't be forced to do stuff with it.

But Alastor being seemingly "not allowed" to be confirmed as aro has set a precedent that there's something wrong with being aromantic. And personally, it makes me feel a tad unwelcomed sometimes.

It's the precedents. Again, why is every other character's orientation allowed to be confirmed but Alastor's isn't? What is so wrong with him being aromantic? Hell, he might not even BE aromantic. But at least I'd KNOW instead of floundering around hoping upon a star for some aromantic representation.

It's okay to be gay but- WHOA HOLD YOUR HORSES THERE. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT A PAUSE IN THAT ARO BUSINESS YOU GOT THERE.

A character's worth is in how shippable they are. And if they're aromantic, they're not shippable. And unfortunately, there are just enough people to throw a hissy fit about it that Viv doesn't want to confirm it.

Because apparently being aromantic would "ruin" things.

[fuckyeahasexual]

Any advice for a sex-repulsed aroace trying to write sex scenes? I'm normally so disgusted by them that I skim or skip over them entirely, and I feel weird about writing one myself, but I want to be able to.

Ask yourself why you are trying to write them. If you are trying to write one because you want to "get over it" that motivation is not good and you should put it off until you actively and positively want to engage with the subject. If you want to write it because you want to have a sex scene on your terms and in your style, that will work! So the how becomes "what style do I like?" maybe you like more poetry and vagueness and were going about things too detailed. It is also possible you aren't rooted in your character enough so changing the POV might also help here. Or changing the scene to be more comfortable for you/and your characters. Maybe write a long fic before the sex scene so it feels more natural. Include characters discussing consent and wants openly to each other first. Stuff like that. If you make yourself (or your characters) it's going to lean in self-harm-y and you won't be happy or proud of it. Hope that helps!

[soshadysoquiet]

TUA S4 alternative options for the Five *event*

Spoilers below, not meant to be taken seriously FYI

Now, I like my Five as AroAce as I am (extremely). But given that TV shows and society has this bullshit propaganda that 'romantic love simply Must occur for a complete being!!' Here's some alternatives that they could have gone for that might have been just as bad but I'd have hated less. (BTW no hate if you write romantic Five Fanfic, not for me but you do you, just wanted this one character to be safe from canon romance)

Bring The Handler back: That would be one fucked up relationship, don't get me wrong, but given they wrote a destined-to-be-fucked romance, have Five struggling to adapt and being coerced into a relationship by her and then realising it's shady and he DOESN'T need this sort of connection because his FAMILY is enough for him and have him kill her.

Make him and his colleague have a thing. True, potentially also problematic as mentally depending on your POV he's 60 or 13 or some mingle-mangled nightmare of the two. In the favour of this pairing I have only that I liked (was it Derek??'s) character design, they've clearly got some similar interests as they work together, they will have therefore spent some quality time together in a Safe space where they could have made a reasonable connection.

Dolores is real in this timeline, or Five somehow birthed her into being. (honestly I thought his colleague was going to turn out to be Dolores and of all the possibilities I would have accepted that the most) For this to work I think Dolores would have needed to be one of the 43 all along and maybe someone who can transplant their consciousness who did similar to Five and got stuck like that, went comatose and mad with it (therefore staying around 13) until Five found her. There, with that, you can fudge around the problematic age thing, they grew up side by side. Thus she and Five really did have a connection, really could talk, and now he gets to live into his old age with someone both mentally and physically the same age as him.

Give him a therapy dog in Pennycrumb that's better than a romance surely who doesn't love a pet?

Kenny's Mom. Idk it would have been whacked AF but I would have laughed my head off and know Five had just lost the plot completely.

He falls in love with another version of himself he meets on the subway. Hell, why not make this a Five that changed gender in the apocalypse and met a mannequin named Donnie, that way we also get more queer representation. Yes, this would also, in fact, be weird AF. But legit hilarious and someone who can match his experience and intelligence. And age.

Let him just have one night stands, that's midway happy right for TV? Just don't make me watch any intimate scenes. You have a Whole other cast, use them. Hell, be brave, do a Klaus / Dave Ghost sexscapade instead.

He has re-found mannequin Dolores. Man has never dealt with his issues that we know of - the show never tells us he does. I thought when they first turned up in the apocalypse from the trains and the sunlight was shining on Dolores that Five was going to steal her. But he could also have just found her again because he couldn't cope.

I think that's exhausted all my awful joke options (though honestly the Dolores two aren't even that bad) would love to hear which your favourite out of these awful options is.

Please reblog for votes, I'm having way too much fun here.

[ahungeringknife]

Let's talk about Aspec characters and relationships!

I'm aroace. I write a lot of characters who are aspec in some way. I have a lot of aspec friends. And this is why your aspec character is driving me crazy. There's also sex talk in here so if you're not mature enough to handle it please scroll past.

Edit: Allos also should reblog this if you found it helpful.

First lets get some terms right:

Aromantic (aro) and Asexual (ace) are two distinct things. Aroace means you're both aromantic and asexual at the same time. It is generally referred to as 'aspec' (aro/ace spectrum) when you fall on one or both spectrums. If you are not aspec you are allosexual/alloromantic (allo). It just means someone who isn't ace or aro. You can also be aroallo or aceallo (aromantic allosexual, asexual alloromantic). All these terms are neutral and not used in derogatory ways similar to trans/cis. It's a descriptive word not a put down.

Now about those characters and their relationships. Because that is the most :))))) to me as an aroace is when people just don't know how to handle an aspec character. Usually because they're allo. But that's okay you probably don't know and we're all here to learn from each other. Here's some things to consider when you want to make or write an aspec person.

Ace's do sometimes have sex. They just aren't motivated by sex. That's it.

Along with sex your ace character may also masturbate and feel good being touched. They also might only like touching themselves and hate when other people do it. They usually also know when someone is hot/sexy and will comment on it. Finding someone sexy =/= we want to fuck them. Thinking someone is hot =/= we want to fuck them. We're still human. We know what a hot human looks like. Your ace character might be attracted to someone's appearance aesthetically but have no interest in their bits. Your ace character might fall in love with the most beautiful person in your story and never show any interest of wanting to bed them.

They can have boyfriends/girlfriends/romantic partners they do or don't have sex with. But they can be anywhere on the spectrum of sex repulsive, to sex positive, to absolute sex hound. Some of the horniest people you know are probably ace. Some of the horniest people I know are ace, and I have a lot of ace friends.

And we're not all virgins. Some ace's had sex and realized 'nah fam. Didn't do it for me' and never did it again. Others are virgins and have no intention ever of having sex. Others are virgins but don't care either way? It just hasn't happened. Others enjoy sex with their partners. Some are parents! You can be ace and had enough sex to procreate. Some also think sex is icky or it squicks them out. Some might be squicked out at the thought of sex with another person but they're fine looking at porn or doing it themselves. There is a wide range of what asexuals are into just like allos.

Aros also sometimes do the sex. They are not motivated by romance. That's it.

That being said your aro character can have a boyfriend/girlfriend/partner and it can be 'romantic'. It doesn't have to be a queer platonic relationship. Your aro character also might not want to be in a relationship at all. It is not weird for your aro character to call their partner their partner or bf/gf or if they're married their husband/wife.

Aro people do not get butterflies. They don't really get flustered around people they like. There's no spark. And they don't feel that romantic attraction allos do when they meet someone and fall in love with them. I've found that aro people are also terrible at flirting or picking up flirting cues. At least in my own personal experience when it took my aro ass 3 years to realize some girl was flirting with me and I just thought she was being nice to me. Take the 'useless lesbian' trope and take it to 11. We just don't know. Aro people also know when other people are hot. Just like aces just because we're aro doesn't mean we don't know a baddy when we see one. We just probably won't realize said baddy is flirting with us...

Aro character still love. They love their family, they love their friends, they love their partners. And it's all real love. The love is still there. Aro characters also probably know what they should do to mimic being in love. Even if we don't love someone more than platonically they may still do the things romantic partners do with their partner. Some don't! And that's fine too. Sometimes you're boyfriends and you share the same bed with him, and sometimes your girlfriend is just your roommate. Both are totally valid aro relationships. Maybe your character kisses their partner passionately and they like it, or they might only kiss during sex, or they might not kiss on the mouth. All valid and correct, still no romo. Kissing =/= romance for aros. Sex =/=romance for aros.

Aroace characters do all those things! At once! They can do the sex, and the boyfriend/girlfriend/partner and loving their friends. They just are not motivated by sex or romance. Kissing =/= sexual attraction. Sex =/= romantic love.

Being aspec is looking at the most beautiful and delicious cake in the world and going 'neat, cake' and walking away not even wondering what it tastes like, not even for a second considering having a bite. It's a cake. Neat. You are not motivated by cake. You don't even really care about cake. It's nice that other people fucking loooooooove cake but it's just not for you.

We also know what love is supposed to be like, what a 'healthy sexual' relationship should feel like. It's everywhere. All around us. Constantly. It's also sometimes fucking exhausting! It's why some aspec people can be a bit agro. We get it you're in love/got a new partner/are sleeping with someone/really sexually attracted to this person/keep spamming us with your celeb thirst pics/etc. It does get tiring sometimes. We don't care about the cake and sometimes listening to you talk about the cake drives us crazy. Consider that too when writing aspec characters. Sometimes their friends and their cakes are annoying no matter how much they love them platonically or romantically.

Anyway just some things to consider for your aspec OCs from an older aroace. Should be said aspec is a wide spectrum and I'm drawing on my own experience as an aroace with aspec friends, and my writing of those characters. If you have more questions about writing characters on this spectrum feel free to ask!

[leikeliscomet]

The Black Gay Asexual Potential of the Fifteenth Doctor (And Why It Will Never Happen) - Mini Essay

If you're wondering if any of these words are in the Bible, walk with me for a second!

Obviously the Doctor being Black is a huge moment for Black representation but also for Black queer representation in particular. After his smooch with Rogue and alleged hot summer with Houdini, RTD isn't shying away from an openly gay incarnation of the Doctor (bearing in mind, he's not the first as the Doctor's been queer, okay!). Plus the show is fully aware of Ncuti Gatwa's attractiveness with constant references to his hotness throughout the season and Ms Cherry Sunday catching feelings (good for her). But one aspect that's rarely spoken about is Fifteen as an asexual character. If the Doctor is an asexual character being played by a Black man in the main lineup for the very first time, we essentially have the very first Black asexual main character not only in the show's history, but in queer TV/Film history. And that would be huge. Groundbreaking even. But many fans (and likely RTD himself) aren't seeing Fifteen as asexual like previous incarnations. From the cries of the Doctor 'finally' becoming gay (like he didn't lipse Jack back in '05), the Doctor 'finally' becoming hot or the Doctor 'finally' being 'allowed to fuck', it's like Fifteen's asexuality has been erased before it could even exist to begin with. And whilst non-asexual gay identity deserves its representation too, especially as it's lacking for dark skin Black gay men, I can't help noticing the erasure not only of the potential of Fifteen's asexuality, but the non existent conversation about it in the first place and how it feeds into the long erasure of Black and gay identity from the face of the asexual spectrum and asexual representation as a whole.

Black asexual representation is rare, with the only Black asexual main character in film history being Selah Summers of Selah and the Spades. The only Black asexual boy in TV history is the recent character Elijah in Big Mouth. The sexualisation and desexualisation of Blackness play a key role in why Black aces are nonexistent in TV/Film. Through tropes like the Mandingo and the Jezebel and the fetishes of ebony and BBC, Black people are assumed to have an insatiable, animalistic sexual appetite stemming from slavery. Ncuti Gatwa's actually spoken about experiencing this fetishisation in white gay spaces. In reverse, tropes like the Mammy desexualise Black people, Black women especially. If Black people can't serve a sexual purpose then we have no sexuality at all and must give ourselves to exclusively performing domestic and physical labour. When you're asexual these stereotypes manifest in the most confusing way possible. On top of navigating a sexuality that's largely invisible itself already, you're balancing the sexual stereotypes of your desire that don't exist because of your alleged undesirability but also exist strongly enough to stop you from actually being asexual.

Prominent Black aroace activist and model Yasmin Benoit is the prime example as her aspec identity is constantly attacked by white conservatives and white TERFs, claiming she's 'too sexy' to be asexual. Even in outfits where she's fully dressed, the white conservative right sees her as too sexual to be asexual and that she is a 'heterosexual' sexual grifter. In other contexts, white conservatives and TERFs see her as 'sexualising asexuality' because she wears lingerie as a model whilst existing as an aroace (the horror!). In that respect they do recognise asexuality exists, but not for her specifically. Asexuality is real, but not in Black people. These stereotypes also manifest inside the asexual community itself. The image of the asexual in most people's minds, is a nerdy awkward white man (The Sheldon), a smart too-busy-for-a-girlfriend white man (The Sherlock) or if we're really, really lucky, the previous but a white woman (The Florence from Sex Education). Whilst ace visibility slowly grows and progress is still being made, Black asexuality is still missing from the conversation. Plus when you look at 'acceptable' asexual Doctors the incarnations form qwhite an interesting pattern. Socially, the idea of asexuality aligns closer with incarnations like One and Twelve, heavily explaining why claiming those two as ace is least likely to be controversial (The Aztec fans notwithstanding). #ThisIsWhatAsexualLooksLike was created by Benoit for this very reason. Black asexual men in ace activist circles such as Tyger Songbird and Marshall Blount have spoken about the erasure of Black men from asexuality specifically. The stereotypes about Black men's sexuality in particular like the Mandingo, the thug and the player can make it difficult for many Black men to come to terms with asexuality because of the sexual stereotypes they're societally expected to live up to. The Doctor Who fandom played into this a bit as I still remember the jokes about 'BBC having new meaning' once Ncuti Gatwa was cast. Whilst not necessarily hinging on his Blackness, there were also many memes and hyperfocus on Ncuti Gatwa's arse and crotch and large reactions to his nude magazine shoots. Whilst it's important not to stigmatise sexual desire whether it's of Fifteen himself or of the gay, bi and pan fans who find him attractive as their desire towards men is already stigmatised in wider society, sexual attraction to Black people doesn't an ally make. And participation in sex and sexuality is not unconditional, permanent consent. There's a difference between sexual attraction and sexualisation. Recognising someone as sexually attractive isn't at odds with recognising their own autonomy as a sexual being. And shouldn't be. From the already addressed sexualisation and invalidation of Yasmin Benoit's asexuality and aromanticism, the long history of the sexualisation of Black people and the specific sexual stereotyping of Black men, it's no surprise Black asexuality is left as an afterthought or impossibility. The Doctor Who fandom is no different.

From the very real sanitisation and repression of gay sexuality from the banning of gay men's books, criminalisation of homosexuality and 'homosexual acts' and the gay panic of the HIV/AIDS crisis, there's always been a fear and stigmatisation of gay sex and sexuality. But because of this, there's a knee-jerk reaction to sexless gay identity as it's seen as a side effect of gay sanitisation. Gay asexuality can't exist autonomously without being a sign of that repression. Alternatively, because of the sexual puritan idea that being gay is inherently sexually deviant and an inherently sexual identity, the asexual gay man 'can't' exist. This also explains the conservative rhetoric about Fifteen and RTD making the Doctor 'not asexual anymore', because to be gay and asexual in their eyes is an oxymoron due to their homophobia. This also bleeds into the erasure of bi, lesbian and pan asexualities too. As written before in my Thasmin thinkpiece, the Thirteenth Doctor's lack of sexual attraction to Yaz is seen as proof that not only that she doesn't love Yaz, but that Thirteen isn't even a 'real' sapphic or a 'real' strong female character. Under compulsory sexuality (and most Thasmin discoursers apparently) to be a sexually liberated woman and a sapphic means to have sex and sexual attraction. Thirteen's repressed, as in having a sexual attraction yet to be unlocked or a sexual attraction she was 'supposed' to have, but not autonomously ace as in not having it in the first place. So in a similar sense to Fifteen, ace-sapphic Thirteen got her wings clipped before she could ever properly fly. Linking back to gay asexuality specifically, the compulsory sexuality that prevents the acceptance of asexuality and the sexualisation and demonisation of gayness means to be 'to be gay and asexual is to coexist in conflict' according to queer writer Michael Paramo, who's consistently written the about these contradictions as a Mexican gay asexual person.

When gay asexuality and Black asexuality are brought up, it's almost exclusively in the context of desexualisation. Many and frankly too many people use asexual as a synonym for desexualised. This leads to a push to 'stop making POC asexual' and 'stop thinking gay people are asexual' plus constant reminders gay and Black people fuck with to 'correct' a sexlessness that's seen as abnormal for these groups to have, further pushing Black and gay asexuality to the back of a very, very long queue. If your asexuality can't exist because you're an inherently sexual being whether you want to be or not and it can't exist in the space where your sexuality is supposed to be free, where do you go? Where do the Black asexual and the gay asexual go if they aren't supposed to exist in the first place?

So enter the Fifteenth Doctor, we have a golden opportunity right here. Under antiblackness and homophobia wrapped in the ribbon of compulsory sexuality, you have a Black gay asexual incarnation of the Doctor. You have a character navigating layers on layers on layers of contradictions. You can navigate the gay experience in someone who experiences little to no sexual attraction. You can navigate the ace experience in someone who experiences romantic attraction to men. You can show two forms of queerness from an underrepresented dark skin Black lens. You show asexuality, Blackness and gay identity in how they overlap, intersect and shape one experience. You're showing a form of queerness that is never, and I mean never shown before.

And that brings me to why I don't think it will ever happen. If series 15, 16 or beyond proves me wrong the 'Black Gay Ace Fifteen is Amazing' thinkpiece will drop with a quickness. Trust me! But, RTD doesn't tend to write asexual characters. He focuses on the experiences of gay and bisexual men, has the occasional lesbian character and some trans characters. Apparently, there's an ace person interviewed in the Tofu web series in the 'Not Having Sex' episode so that's cool, but overall, The Asexual Character written by RTD is yet to be written. And I don't think they'll ever be. I don't expect RTD to write do this because I don't think queer writers, in this case, gay writers writing specifically about their own queerness slightly more than others is weird at all. I'm not surprised RTD writes mostly gay men as a gay man, so I'm not expecting or demanding asexual representation from him specifically. Similarly, from how RTD's written his Black characters in RTD1, I'm really not expecting him to make the next Moonlight. Whilst Roscoe from It's a Sin felt like a breath of fresh Nigerian gay air, this hasn't really translated into RTD2 yet. From 'Do you come in a range of different colours?' to how series 14 had no Black writers at all let alone queer Black ones and the atrocity that was Dot and Bubble, if Fifteen's experience as a Black queer person is missing or fumbled completely I won't be surprised.

That being said, RTD and Doctor Who are fully aware of its reputation as a queer show, as in an umbrella of all gender identities and sexualities. If Doctor Who both in show and fandom are pro-queer, as in embracing all forms of unconventional sexuality, as in being a safe haven for sexuality that's unrepresented and as in challenging the ideas of 'normal' sexuality then asexuality needs to be a part of that. No ifs, buts or excuses. I can't help but notice the coincidence of the Doctor 'not being asexual anymore' alongside the Doctor not being white anymore. And from the deliberate erasure of Black and gay asexuality on screen, inside asexual community and in wider queer community, I can't get behind another form of erasure even if it's accidental. The concept of Fifteen simply being demisexual, greysexual or a sex-favourable ace isn't even entertained in fandom either or the idea that Fifteen never stopped the Doctor's asexuality actually, but instead is just showing a flirty side of it. But even then it begs the question of why being Black and/or gay with no sexual attraction is seen as an impossibility. Why is letting go of sexual expectations of Black and gay people an impossibility? The Doctor Who fandom's and writer's (looking at you Moffat) long fear of asexuality is yet to be unpacked and until that day comes, I don't think we'll get close to any openly asexual doctor, let alone a Black and gay asexual one. Fifteen being asexual wouldn't dampen, sanitise or ruin him as a queer character. He could be flirty as can be, clubbing every night, skimpy outfit wearing, hot summers with Houdini galore and running off with Rogue into the sunset and still be asexual at the end of the day. Asexuality is a massive umbrella of different experiences, perspectives and people. It isn't asexuality that limits people, it's ignorant and restrictive attitudes about queerness that do. Asexuality doesn't, hasn't and will never restrict the Doctor's queerness, but compulsory sexuality does. And will.

I would love to be wrong about this and get bamboozled with Fifteen being written as a gay ace Black man in future series but knowing how RTD does Black characters in Doctor Who and the 'queer hierarchy' of the fandom, I won't be getting my hopes up. All I ask is that fandom and its writers be brave and look at representation different from their own. Something unfamiliar, something new, something borrowed, something blue. You could learn a lot. Queerness is a large umbrella after all. Anything is possible.

[genericpuff]

(disclaimer, this is coming from a heartstopper fan! i love heartstopper this is not hate!!)

i think at least part of the annoyance with heartstopper isn't just that isn't a light fluffy ya series, it's also that its another example of how the queer media that gets the most mainstream attention tends to be this kind of light fluffy ya stuff that focuses on two conventially attractive queer boys or men and it also tends to be written by people who aren't queer men on top of that, so not only can it feel very samey but it can feel like other queer people are relegated to side characters in the stories of cis gay men. and as someone who loves heartstopper i get that on some level.

btw by "written by people who aren't queer men" NOT saying that isn't not written by queer people. alice oseman is genderfluid and aroace, becky albertalli is bisexual, etc. and while i think the point is still valid there is a misogyny element in that a lot of the focus is put on things that are written by women or people they perceive as women while tumblr darlings like good omens and ofmd (written by presumably straight men) don't get the same treatment.

nah y'know what, that's fair, I can get how frustrating it can be for a lot of popular queer stories to feel samey, I've definitely gotten BL-fatigue in the past on platforms like WT and Tapas because many of them ARE the same and feel like they're just piggybacking off trends for the sake of clout (and this is a problem in the heterocis romance stories too, don't get me fucking started on how dark romance has turned into torture porn where vulnerable women are constantly being victimized by rich powerful men and we're just supposed to root for that ??), but it's one of those things where like, what might be seen as just more corny shit could very well be the revelation another person needs that they're gay / trans / etc. that the story helped them realize. there's just a point where i see these arguments against cheesy popular queer stories that teeter dangerously close to being queerphobic and, as you said, misogynist, simply because "it was written by someone who i perceive as a woman so that makes it BAD!"

and I didn't mention it in the original post because I didn't want to @ OP in any way but in the comment section they literally said "i dont think heartstopper itself is all that bad but it has pretty much aimed the direction of all mainstream gay comics towards wholesomeness instead of anything more interesting so i want to destroy heartstopper to destroy heartstopper clones" and that gives me massive ick because it implies their sole reasoning for including it was "chill and happy queer stories bad, if a character doesn't suffer enough then they're not interesting"?? why can't LGBTQ+ audiences have more 'vanilla' stories that aren't all sad and angsty all the time? are we not entitled to the same corny romcom vanilla shit that the heterocis are entitled to? why do LGBTQ+ characters - and by extension, people - have to suffer to qualify as being 'interesting'? You're already interesting, you're you! like i'm sorry, are we trying to scare people straight??? 😭 shit, that's even a plot point that's touched on in Heartstopper itself where Nick is questioning his sexuality and he starts googling shit and it's just ALL the terrifying news stories of queer kids being ostracized / bullied / murdered / etc. and as much as it's important to be aware of the ongoing issues so we can keep fighting for our rights, we ALSO need to find balance and remember to celebrate the stories that AREN'T that because we need something to be hopeful for, something we can find peace in. I don't think Heartstopper is some deeply profound piece of work, but it also doesn't seem like it's trying to be? It's a low stakes celebration of the LGBTQ+ experience that's very warm and comforting, especially for those who are the same ages as the main characters who are often being persuaded by the grown-ups around them that it's a death sentence to be gay / trans / etc.

and it's not like we HAVEN'T had popular pieces of queer representative media that explored things outside of cheesy BL, like are we forgetting about Nimona which explored both the gay and genderfluid experience in a very accessible and fun way while still being mature and not pandering to its audience over how society has made monsters out of queer people?

(and even then I'm sure there are folks who would argue "actually, here are the issues with Nimona" , and that's fine tbh, we can like media and appreciate what it brings to the table while also discussing what it lacks in, such as what we're doing now with Heartstopper! progress is a never-ending journey!!)

and also okay, not me trying to be argumentative in the slightest BUT I don't really get the argument that 'other queer people' are being sidelined for the main characters? unless there's something I'm missing here lol (I will apologize for that because it's admittedly been a while since I've re-read Heartstopper so I should probably go do that to refresh myself on it). like i say that in the sense that Heartstopper is clearly meant to be about two gay male teenagers. just like how Nimona is about a shapeshifter who is not a girl or a boy (they're Nimona!) and a gay man who are both trying to change the system that's other'd them for years for the better. that is the story Heartstopper is trying to tell and it achieves that. it also has a trans character plotline that I could see people arguing feels sidelined but I think there's a massive difference between 'sidelining' and just having a B plot ? my honest take with that is not every piece of representative media is going to be able to cover every single topic, it's just not doable for one piece of media to be a monolith for everything, the same as how one person can't be a monolith for an entire community of people. BUT that doesn't mean works like Heartstopper and Nimona can't inspire others to also lend their voices into the medium and create that representation that's needed. That's why we need ✨variety✨ and Heartstopper is part of that variety by offering a more vanilla cutesy story full of good vibes for people who want that sort of thing.

IDK, I think there's just a lot of nuance that's being missed in that poll, and in the difference between Heartstopper inspiring more people to write happy cozy BL stories vs. implying that it's had an actual negative influence on modern art and media in the same way that series like Homestuck and LO have to the point that people think it needs to be destroyed, like wtf LOL Like they're not even comparable IMO and a lot of the arguments I see people making about why it is just feel a little backwards, and those arguments obfuscate the real issue which is just "popular thing is popular and people like to piggyback off popular shit". That's a fact for basically any niche and genre, these trends come and go. Even if the whole cutesy BL trend passes one day (which it will) it'll be replaced by something else that people will also inevitably find samey and boring after a while. This is not a concept that's unique to LGBTQ+ media, it's universal.

Balance is important and I think finding that balance is as much a responsibility on the shoulders of the consumer as it is on the creator. And I don't think Heartstopper deserves to be put into the same camp as stories like LO which literally straightwashes its canonically queer characters and gives those queer identities to nothingburger characters who are easy to shoo out of the plot to make way for the heterocis ones (while still parading itself around like it's actually 'queer rep' which... it really isn't.) Like all three of the comics in that poll are vastly different, serving different audiences, with different goals and intentions. It's comparing apples to oranges to pineapples.

The worst Heartstopper has to offer is just a low stakes plot that might not appeal to everyone or feel 'samey' which yeah, valid, but in the grander sense of whether or not it's had a negative effect on queer media just for being... cheesy? And inspiring other people to write stories like it? I don't get the argument, it feels like it's severely missing the point of what we're fighting for here - to live happy little unbothered lives - but that's just me ╮(￣ω￣;)╭ I'm definitely not trying to be a dick about it in any way and I don't want anyone to think I'm not open to the opposing points here, I do agree with you on the oversaturation of samey BL stories, but it just rose some massive red flags to see Heartstopper next to frigging Homestuck and Lore Olympus LOL

[aro-bird]

I do have to say, as someone on the camp of "you could probably ship someone else who isn't non-partnering but honestly I don't care as long as you don't harass people over this", I think it's lost on some people that the reason why so many non-partnering aroaces may become defensive over these characters even if "it's just fandom" is the fact that a lot of aroaces who do fit these stereotypes and who may fall into this camp genuinely had horrible experiences about their social circles and yes, especially this fandom site, harassing them and saying they don't exist or that they're mentally ill and should "get fixed" among other things.

As common it is to see aspecs here on Tumblr, the queer social media site, you need to understand that there's still a lot of contempt for aroaces outside and inside this place. Hell, I received an ask calling aros and aces delusional just last Christmas Day 2023 that came with a wave of increased arophobia around that time. As much as that time period was definitely discourse against aroallo men, aphobes did not cherry pick on who they're sending hate to.

Besides this, a lot of non-partnering aroaces often receive this kind of dismissal in real life too and as much as some people may think it's not a big deal, it definitely fucks up your brain when people say you and your experiences not only don't matter but you are doomed to live a lonely and miserable life if you don't find someone. Even my otherwise very supportive relatives expressed this concern and it's absolutely out of care but it's fucking damaging to constantly hear that I will die alone if I don't find a partner (romantic, platonic, or otherwise).

This is besides dismissals like this or even non-acceptance had literally barred me from mental health care when I was a teenager because my specialist said I had a "distressed sexuality" and had specialists focused on that aspect rather than all my other issues.

The shipping of a non-partnering (typically romance repulsed or uninterested) character feels like another form of dismissal for someone like me, like my sexuality is not good enough or serious enough to be respected. The shipping of these characters sometimes reinforce the narrative that non-partnering aroace people can't find happiness on their own and do need someone (romantic, platonic, or otherwise) to be happy or they will become happier if they do find this someone. People are having fun with their ships but there are still many people who don't want to spend the time actually extending grace and understanding towards me and my experiences. I'm just another discourse topic and someone who's inconvenient to some of them.

This doesn't even account for how these fan communities aren't just filled with aspec people and do extend to allos who may take some of the discourse and actively apply it in real life to other real life aspec people. People who go and interact with real human beings and may hurt them or harass them. It isn't even accounting for the fact that even online things affect real people too.

Of course, I do understand that a lot more complex aspec identities often don't get the spotlight so they may express themselves through shipping fandom characters but non-partnering people should deserve more than these people isn't really the point of this post.

The point here is that there's a reason why a lot of non-partnering (typically repulsed or uninterested) aroace people get defensive about these things even in fan communities and it's very likely that it's because aphobia and especially against the stereotypical aroace™ still very much exist outside of our little community and they can be informed by media and the fans that consume it and this shit could genuinely have negative consequences. This of course extends to those who do have complex aspec identities as society does not treat those who don't live up to what is expected as "normal" in terms of romantic relationships and sexual attraction kindly.

Distancing yourself from these aroaces who do have frustrations with how media and fandom treat their sexuality because they're being "prudes" or are just affected by "purity culture" is unhelpful to say the least and honestly veers eerily close to shit I hear aphobes say about us.

Absolutely do stop people and block them if they're instigating and participating in harassment over shipping of all things, even these aroaces, but trying to say that every person who do have issues with shipping aroace characters are the same way with this is extremely lacking nuance and absolutely dismissive of other members of the community and why they may have the opinion they hold.

[candikin]

What Your Favorite THSC Character Would Of Said About You Back In 2020 VS Now!

Henry Stickmin

Before: Oh, you just went with the safe option huh? Either that or you've played since the start

Now: You're pretty chill, and very into angst. Either you are insane about shipping him, or you are a firm believer that he's aroace

Charles Calvin

Before: ALRIGHT WE GET IT, YOU LIKE THIS ONE

Now: Yes, keep rambling to me about him <3 /srs

Ellie Rose

Before: Man, she's a underrated one! Surprised you even liked her enough to be your favorite. You must have a lot of interesting ideas for her

Now: You most likely are into women, aren't you? Women like her?

Reginald Copperbottom

Before: Hello shipping and LGBTQ+ community

Now: Hello shipping and LGBTQ+ community

Right Hand Man

Before: You are either a huge Copperright shipper or just here for nostalgia... or both

Now: You are either one of the most normal people here or one of the most crazy (positive either way)

Dave Panpa

Before: You're just like him, that's why

Now: You're just like him, that's why

Rupert Price

Before: Are you... sure he's your favorite, or do you just want to be different?

Now: Oh nope, you definitely like him. You're probably a fanfic writer. Can we be friends, because you seem interesting

Terrence Suave

Before: You like writing villains

Now: You like writing misunderstood characters or angst

Sven Svensson

Before: You're a highschool girl, who really loves shipping and definitely ship Curtisson

Now: You ship Curtisson, and a bit of a softie. I would probably love your aesthetic though

Burt Curtis

Before: Huh, you're pretty normal... unless your second favorite is Charles. If Charles is your second fav, you probably headcanon them as brothers and are insane about that dynamic

Now: You may come off as normal at first, but you're crazy /pos

[theroundbartable]

Okay, if you were asked who are in Merlin BBC & Voltron that you can see based on canon that are gay/bi/pan/demi, which characters are they? Why?

What a fun ask I'm totally not doing to procastinate on cooking... XD

BBC Merlin

Arthur Pendragon is, in my head, demiromantic and bisexual... It sort of depends on the circumstances/episode. Arthur needs a very long time to really feel connections with people and only starts to consider love after he really gets to know them, hence his constant search for true love in the show. With Merlin I'm not entirely sure if he was attracted to him instantly, strangely enough feeling a connection from the moment they met, or if it takes him till the end of the series when Merlin confesses his magic and finally shows his true self to realise the depth of his feelings.

Merlin is, well... Bi Bi Bi. A disaster bi in fact. With a preference for sweaty men in metal boxes, he's not very peculiar. However, Merlin is a one person hyperfixation kind of guy. Most people are convinced that Merlin's gay.

Gwen: I feel like most people in BBC Merlin are bi and Gwen is no exception. Like Merlin, she prefers the hero type in metal uniforms. But she also had a thing for Morgana in the beginning.

Morgana: lesbian. I have never seen a woman so disinterested in men, I'm not surprised that they casted Katie McGrath in supergirl as supergirls love interest. I might settle for homoromantic and asexual. But definitly in love with Gwen in the very beginning.

Sir Leon, my beloved, the immortal, the one and only, the eternal suffering aro/ace. I don't have to explain this one. The only counter moment is the Lamia episode where Leon suddenly develops interest in women out of nowhere. My personal take is that anyone could be fallen under a Lamia's spell, this one just had a taste for men (and male presenting).

Sir Elian: once upon a time I clocked them as nonbinary and sadly that's as far as I thought into this character. Pretty sure he's aromantic. He/they pronouns. I dunno, I don't think Elian would conform to anything if given a choice. Aromantic too, I think. Like Leon, there is no interest there, but he does play around with Percival and Gwaine quite often, so I'd take that as allosexual.

I am excluding Gwaine because I think canon Gwaine is written as a straight oblivious fuckboy. Albeit a kind one XD fanon Gwaine is often poly/ pan... Or into apples. Lmao XD and I'm not sure about Percival because the man has a dead wife and kids.

Voltron

Keith: with his lack of interest in women, he can only be gay. That man looks at no one quite the same as he looks at Lance. what the hell was the whole bonding thing if not a hint for post canon klance? Sorry, not sorry XD rivals to best friends to lovers.

Lance: *bi bo bi* bisexual lighting Lance. Doesn't matter if you prefer klance or shallura, this man is a walking bi flag. I don't know what you mean by proof, just look at this wiggly boy with the fingerguns. He can't even sit straight! Can't do math either. He's perfect!

Shiro: probably the only character in my entire history of shipping that I would unqueer without feeling bad about it. I know he's gay, I just don't really see it in the writing. Of course there aren't always clear signs that someone is gay which is why this is good rep actually (+he's married), but you asked me for proof in the show and all I see is that this man is a dad. That's his gender and his orientation and that's all I really need to know.

Pidge: aro/ace because I love my aroaces and this child loves robots and robots only. Also nonbinary/genderqueer. Pronouns: fuck/off XD

I think Lotor should have been bi. Pre-canon Lotor had us Langsters ship Lotor x Lance and it was so much fun :D

Bob: gender: evil, orientation: villain. I hate this guy

Coran: the georgous man is either gay or pan. More likely pan because I vaguely remember he had a son?

I hope I answered your question reasonably enough XD thank you for the ask, anon :3

[canonaspecswag]

Welcome to the canon aspec swag showdown

Where your favorite canon aspec characters will go head to head in a battle of strength, wits, and most of all, canon aspec swag.

SUBMISSION RULES: 1. Characters can be asexual, aromantic, aroace, demi-, grey-ace, or any other aspec lablel

2. Real people are allowed if they're publicly out as aspec and I feel like including them. Or if it's funny enough.

3. Characters must be canon aspec: confirmed in text using an aspec label OR confirmed by word of god OR expressed disinterest in sex and/or romance in text

Why only canon characters? I wanted to highlight the canon aspec characters that are out there and introduce people to new media with canon asexuality, aromanticism, and more.

4. One submission per character per person. I encourage people to submit multiple characters, and multiple people can submit the same character, but don't spam your favorite character.

5. Don't fight on my posts or in my inbox. If you need to complain about whatever characters people are submitting or that people aren't voting for your blorbo, vagueblog about it like a civilized person.

6. Propaganda is allowed. Encouraged even.

Submit your blorbos with the form below, the form will be open for submissions until April 20th, 2023 Friday April 7th, 2023 at 4PM Pacific Time

Inspired by @asexual-swag-bracket @aromanticswagbracket @alloarocharactershowdown @autismswagsummit @aromanticbracket2023 @aroaceswagcompetition @aroaceslayshowdown

[kits-ghosts-corner]

SCREAMS OK I've wanted to put my thoughts on this shit out for yonks but allos can be weird - the difference now is that I!! Don't!! Care!!

(As a starting point, this post is not aimed at any aces, aros, and aroaces. I'm staring allos directly in the eyes as I write all this).

You all get way too comfortable erasing alloaro, alloace, and aroace identities when it comes to fandom.

If a character is presented as sex-repulsed and/or romance-repulsed, then it's fucking weird for you to not write them as such. It's erasure, plain and simple. If a character is explicitly gay, you'd be up in arms if anybody wrote them as straight, but the second an aro+/ace person says "hey, this isn't right" to how you represent a character's aromanticism or asexuality, then the immediate response is "WELL IT'S FANDOM AND FICTION AND I CAN DO WHAT I LIKE!!!". Yeah, it is fandom and fiction. Yeah, you can write what you like. But at that point, even if it wasn't erasure, it's just shitty character work and eradicating any nuance and major points of a character.

"But some asexuals have sex and some aromantics get into romantic relationships-" YEAH. I KNOW. I KNOW THAT. BUT SOME AREN'T, AND EXPLICITLY SO IN THE MEDIA THEY'RE IN. That's why you add some fucking nuance and maybe think for 3 seconds before you write Alastor from Hazbin Hotel getting gangbanged by 40 twinks or whatever the fuck. Hell, I LIKE reading stories where aces and aros can engage in sex and romance respectively - I even write that myself! But half the time, allos don't get it right at all, or will ignore the aspects that come with being on the aro+/ace spectrums, or what terminologies can actually invoke. You guys will just slap on "sex-favourable" or "romance-favourable" (etc.) to get around it.

Obviously, this conversation itself comes with nuances and other aspects, and this is just a basic rant post because it's a subject that's been getting on my nerves lately, but FUCK can you guys have like A Single Thought before making every canonically sex-repulsed character a skinny twink waiting to be dicked down by the nearest person to them? Aces, aros, and aroaces don't have enough representation as is, we don't need extra erasure in our fandom spaces on top of it.

[forgottenspring]

Mild rant on Alastor bc I'm tired.

*takes deep breath*

I was going to stay out of this so rip to my inbox.

Does anybody remember the whole ace doxing list on here? The whole discussion of not shipping gay characters with the opposite gender? The rep for pan/bi representation and the steps to do it right? Does anybody remember when ppl on here discussed how aros and aces aren't a part of the queer community bc they're not 'gay enough' in a way? Bc I do. That was about a decade ago. And I remember when Alastor was first introduced in the pilot and ppl not accepting he was aroace back then.

It doesn't matter if Alastor is entirely aroace and if he's capable of dating or not.

What matters is we still have so little ace representation and acceptance, especially aroace rep, that a few years ago when a real person Jaiden Animations came out as aroace, ppl tried to destroy her, bc even with a perfect valid explanation of her just saying aroaces are their own thing and she just doesn't want to date, ppl treated it like she was lying or was trying to sneak into the queer community and was straight or all the other horrible things yall might remember "fans" did to her.

Alastor being aroace isn't about being the rep of "Aroaces can feel attraction!!!" bc be real honest.

How many aroace popular characters can ppl list that a regular person on the street is going to know? Bc I've heard all their arguments to invalidate their representation.

Jughead? Oh you mean Cole Sprouse who made out and got it on with Lili Reinhart playing Betty bc he found her sexy? Oh but in the old comics he's a gay character whose in denial. Yelena Boleva? Who? Oh that woman? She's hot she's just traumatized and needs to find the right person. Charlie Weasley? Oh he was only in the books? He was confirmed as aroace through a passive comment most ppl didn't know about from the author that never used the term? Luffy? You mean one of the most shipped characters in One Piece? No he's just an idiot/childish so he doesn't understand girls are pretty. Caduceus Clay? Sorry I didn't watch Critical Role whose that? Are you sure he's aroace? He feels gay to me.

I can list more ppl, but I'm sure most ppl couldn't.

I remember the whole discussion of the pan/bi representation argument of "Yes! We know pan/bi ppl can date the opposite gender. But straight ppl don't know about pan/bi nearly at all or don't accept it," so showing it as gay, who know the term more, until it's shown clearly the character is queer and not "confused straights" they then can have opposite gender attraction. Bc sooooo many pan/bi characters end up "straight" at the end of their show/book. Bc I remember when ppl refused to accept that Deadpool is pan bc of his wife and started freaking out when he dated a nonbinary person in the comics or helped that one genderqueer person he knew.

Representation is about showing to ppl what they're not understanding about the identity in the plainest sense of the words of the identity, then when there's enough rep to show they're not all the same, then you can have the ones that break the rules.

Alastor whether or not he wants to date doesn't matter. What matters is this whole situation blew out of proportion bc ppl refused to accept that some ppl don't feel comfy shipping him. Bc they see themselves in him and don't want that. BUT! Also ppl under the aro and ace umbrella also have no rep and wanted to see him breaking the stereotype they probs have yelled at them of "You can't have a partner you're aroace I forbid it" and wanted to see thru their own experiences how that would be done.

Here's the problem.... As someone who has read a lot of aroace headcanon fanfics as an aroace....... A lot of ppl who are allo don't realize aroace "crushes" are missing emotions... That's why they're aroace. And they'll write them like they're the same just "muted" or "needs to warm up" kinda thing. Or make the character's love "childish" to explain the lack of romance/sex. Which is messed up. And that's the problem here.

Alastor didn't need to be this blown out of proportion of a situation. The problem is ppl found him sexy and the classic "But aroace hot, they can't be aroace bc why hot?" discussion got brought back up without the gentle post format discussions and instead it was a lot of shippers on tiktok with tiny word counts arguing a complex issue.

Ppl should be allowed to ship whatever (except problematic I know yall too well), especially if they see themselves in the characters and especially if they have the same identity and want to explore that!!

The truth of the matter is this is such a huge issue that just keeps happening bc ppl are too used to fandom queer spheres where ppl already know aroace means "off the table" and so they want to play with qprs or grayromantics/sexuals not knowing what that entails bc there's sooooo lil aroace rep that actually explores being aroace and a lot of ppl don't know the basics, and even how very different aroace "off the table" is when you aren't the classic "uwu I'm just innocent and have no friends or importance to the plot so just ignore me and have me be adopted by one of the main couples as a 'kid' figure."

Not to mention that a lot of ppl still think ace means aroace. That aces can't date bc there's ppl who don't know that romantic and sexual attraction are different!

I'm just.... So tired. So very tired of having ppl shout at me what it means to be aroace and being unable to look up the lil aroace rep we have bc of this issue I've seen a million times is all.