#where my mythology girlies at

[sparrow-the-tired-lesbian]

Percy: so you’re not a monster. What are you? Medusa: A survivor. Me: Me: oh.

[ladynicte]

I am delulu <- actually really likes the Magnus Chase series

[dootznbootz]

I don’t have a link but I saw a post along the lines of “EPIC fans trying to gaslight themselves into thinking Odysseus wouldn’t cheat (he does in the books)” and I nearly had a conniption.

Some people WERE arguing he was assaulted, but other people were saying it depends on the interpretation and saying he has a child with Circe and that he stays on the island with her for a year. I also saw someone say he was just lying about being assaulted on another post about it.

The Odyssey/EPIC fandom is so exhausting I’ve thought about blocking everything sometimes ngl. It’s so hard to filter out posts like that. But there’s so much amazing art and content about it I don’t want to stop seeing it.

No, like that's the struggle of it.

I Love Epic and I technically got into the Odyssey BECAUSE of Epic. But I'm a hardcore Odyssey girly. I adore it so much. I've read 8 translations at this point because I love it so much and it's fun for me! And Epic is in no way a replacement for the Odyssey (Jay even says that it's not! he's simply inspired by the Odyssey) and it feels like high quality fanfiction of the Odyssey (FUN! JOYOUS WHIMSY! I still like it! :3 ).

But holy shit, like, both Epic AND Tagamemnon fans can be so fucking exhausting. (I am a fan of both. I can say this.)

(Obviously I'm not talking about everyone. <3 I've made many friends and have met lovely people in both fandoms.)

Like while yes, Epic!Odysseus isn't coerced/raped by either of the goddesses, that's simply because of the fact that Jay simply felt like he wasn't well equipped to handle such dark topics to that extent. And I honestly respect him for that! He knows his limits with the story he wanted to tell and that's good! And in general I think he did a fantastic job handling the aspects of it he did touch on (Coercion with Circe's threatening in "There Are Other Ways" is done well imo.)

(ngl, I kind of take back what I said about "Not Sorry for Loving You". I think a lot of my reaction was initially from my fear of how fandom would react. But I've been delightfully surprised seeing how (for the most part) Epic Fandom has really come through to show the "fucked up-ness" of that song)

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ODYSSEUS IN THE ODYSSEY IS A SHITTIER HUSBAND BECAUSE HE, IN THE ANCIENT TEXT, CANNOT SAY NO TO A GODDESS.

Greek Mythology isn't like Percy Jackson where 12 year old Percy beat Ares. (I was a PJO KID TOO!) It's not "Odysseus didn't try hard enough" fucking victim blaming btw because HE LITERALLY CANNOT REFUSE OR THEN HE'LL (AND HIS FRIENDS IN THE CASE OF CIRCE) WOULD DIE!!!

Like I wrote a whole ass essay on Circe's Situation (I feel so preachy and shitty about having to constantly bring it up but I will as much as I have to to get people to listennnn) and in general, if you can't see what's happening with Calypso, you've got your head up your ass and/or are just looking away because you don't like the actual implications of what's happening. For the main "gripe" I've seen with Calypso with how "He enjoyed her company at first", @lyculuscaelus has a great essay breaking that down.

And before? ODYSSEUS HAS NO LISTED CONCUBINES! And he brings up Penelope often in the Iliad!

And the whole "lying about being assaulted", I'm sorry but if someone is holding the "Men were so sexist that they couldn't possibly care about the women in their lives or have been victims" idea, then why would Odysseus willfully share that he was raped by women? Who, as they say, were viewed beneath him? Why would he lie about something that would put him in such a humiliating light?

Btw, Menelaus (sealy boy!!!) even says that he's being held captive by Calypso with what he learned from Proteus! Menelaus isn't known for telling stories!

I feel bad as like, I used to LOVE going into the tags and finding creators I haven't seen before and cheering them on! Art and Fics and yay! But like... It's sometimes so disheartening going in there and seeing nonsense or bad takes ;~;

Honestly, as much as I DO enjoy Epic, I think that hopefully once the hype dies down a lil, it'll chill out more :') We'll all be okay!

[crescenthistory]

hello miss Carina! I'm not very well versed in the marauders fandom (but I love your works) and was wondering what are the valkeryies?

hello my lovely!! i am SO HAPPY you asked

crescenthistory's introduction to the valkyries

since you said you're not well-versed in the fandom at all, i'm over-explaining to be on the safe side, sorry if you already knew all of this 🙏

"the valkyries" is a group name in the same way as the marauders (james, sirius, remus, peter) and the slytherin skittles (barty, evan, regulus, dorcas, pandora) are

unlike the marauders (who are named explicitly in the hp books through the marauders map), the skittles and the valkyries are fandom names for the different friendgroups at hogwarts

(nb, the skittles are sometimes called the emeralds by people who think that name is too silly lmao, and pandora is traditionally thought of as ravenclaw, despite the name being slytherin-centred)

these friendgroups, of course, often over-lap in fan interpretations as we love to have them all as one vast giant family

in OG fanon lore, the valkyries consist of the three gryffindor girls: lily evans, marlene mckinnon and mary macdonald

lily we know a "lot" about from the books; she is studious, fiery, kind/nurturing, stands up for what is right and loves her friends fiercly

mary is only named as a member of the order who did not die and is mentioned by lily in a flashback where she says mary was a victim of a muggleborn hatecrime

thus we as a fandom have concluded that she is muggleborn and kind. from there, interpretations of her vary, but i characterise her as sassy, down to earth, a bit flirtatious yet shy, kind of cottagecore-y

when we talk about the marauders era in a canon compliant way, most people believe that mary survived the first wizarding war and obliviated herself of any knowledge of magic afterwards because she couldn't live with the trauma. she went on to live the rest as a "muggle"

marlene is mentioned only once in the books and is said to have been a member of the order who was killed alongside her entire family

she is generally characterised by the fandom as being incredibly loyal and family-centric (blood and found family), outspoken/brazen, confident, passionate and kind

most people hc her as an avid quidditch fanatic (wants to be a professional player when she grows up, becomes either that or a healer)

these three shared a dorm at hogwarts and made up the foundation of the friendship between the marauders era girls

(either peter or remus is often hc-ed as being brought in as an "honourary girlie" in some of their hangouts because of their quietness and respect)

they are called the valkyries specifically because valkyries in norse mythology are beautiful female warriors who bring fallen soldiers to valhalla ("heaven") -> a poetic take on who they are

they are close friends with the marauders, depending on your hcs

i for one believe that marlene and james are childhood besties (because wizard families and quidditch) and lily and remus instantly connect (because of similar personalities and views), so the friendgroups are kind of merged immediatley

it also makes sense that the two gryffindor groups are connected to some degree -- i don't like the idea of them splitting up into "genders" so divisively, i view the different friendgroups as originating from their dorms and then mixing from there

where and how the slytherin skittles come in, usually depends on your hcs or the fic (as in, you go with what suits your story)

the obvious connection is regulus and sirius as brothers, so in fics where they are close, it makes sense that the friendgroups merge

other than that, the friendgroups usually merge through different ships: james/regulus, marlene/dorcas, lily/james, lily/pandora, remus/regulus, etc.

most people nowadays (ESPECIALLY ME) consider dorcas and (sometimes) pandora as either parts of the valkyries or at least good enough friends with them that they are together a lot

while i see dorcas and pandora as slytherin skittles/emeralds first and foremost, i will usually also include them in chats about the valkyries and will list poly!dorlene and poly!pandalily under the valkyries tag in my masterlist

they become integrated with the three valkyries at some point during their time at hogwarts; the original trio expands

i usually consider the shift to have happened around fifth year, but it's flexible

(if you want to know more about dorcas and pandora, i have a lot of headcanons about them under the slytherin skittles part of my masterlist)

i personally am an avid dorlene (dorcas/marlene) shipper and don't really entertain other pairings for either party, though i know some people are fond of marlene/mary

marylily is a huge other ship within the valkyries and is often considered "complementary" to dorlene

pandalily (pandora/lily) is also growing in popularity from what i've seen

if you want any headcanons for any of these ships (either on their own or poly x reader), i am more than willing 🥸

there are also wider friendgroups and other characters around at hogwarts that are sometimes mentioned or integrated into fics, either to serve a purpose or just for the vibes

some of these that i occasionally use are: the black sisters (reg&sirius' cousins andormeda, bellatrix and narcissa), amelia bones (hufflepuff), emmeline vance (ravenclaw), alice fortescue & frank longbottom, rita skeeter, ted tonks, the Bad Guys in slytherin lol (severus snape, rabastan lestrange, lucius malfoy, mulciber, avery, etc.)

i hope this gave you a better idea of who they are bubs! let me know if you want any more details or to chat about them<33

since any lore is essentially entirely based in fanon, it is very much up to everyone's personal preference and is even subject to change from fic to fic, but all in all the valkyries are lily, marlene and mary + other potential girlies(gn) they drag with them along the way 🤍

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

What was your favorite book as a young kid?

oh man I had a ton. when I was in younger elementary I really liked Dick King-Smith's chapter books, especially The School Mouse and Pigs Might Fly. I liked how mature they felt because of how frank they were about death and the frequently terrible realities of being a mouse or a pig, while still being quite lighthearted and whimsical stories about animals Doing Things Animals Don't Normally Do where everything more or less ends up okay for our protagonists.

in later elementary I reread Cryptid Hunters, by Roland Smith (no relation to Dick, presumably) over and over and over instead of the Narnia books or Eragon or whatever I was supposed to be reading that was appropriate for my "college reading level." it's pure action pulp for kids and I was DEEP in my cryptid phase, so there was really no prying me away from it.

I also loooooved those Dear America books that were all written like the diaries of girls during various parts of American history. all of those girlies were having the fucking worst time starving to death on the Oregon trail or tending lighthouses or working in the coal mines. I ate that shit up.

OH MY GOD and the Dragonology book, she was everything to me. that was the only one I owned but I also read the Egyptology and Greek Mythology books from the same series RELIGIOUSLY when I checked them out from the library.

[gingersnaptaff]

Shwmae pawb! (That's 'hi everyone!' in Welsh. :3)

So, GIANTS. Giants are stock characters in both Arthurian AND Celtic legends. Wales has many giants and almost all of them are absolute BASTARDS. Fun. Also, some are connected to mountains. Also fun!

Anyways, I thought I'd do a quick lil thing about them cuz honest we have so many you can - and somebody probably will - do a book about them.

So, just a quick thing about Welsh. 'Fawr,' which is an appellation means 'the Great. It can also mean big. It's why when people swear in Welsh and say 'Iesu Fawr' what they're saying is, "BIG JESUS!"

Two diddy things:

I enjoy the fact that 'Giant' is doing double duty. Can be bastard, can be nice. Spin the cauldron and see which u get.

Now, I was gonna do your biggies like Arthur, Gwenhwyfar, Cai, Gwalchmai, Uthyr, etc, etc. But, honestly, you probably know that they were, at one point or another, seen to be giants in Welsh mythology. (And Arthur was probably on the Bastard side more than good if you believe Gildas. But he is biased cuz Arthur killed his brother so 🤷🏻‍♀️)

So, a lot of the giants are connected to places like Cader Idris - who is probably the most famous giant lad after Bendigeidfran - or Y Cath Palug who prowled around Môn (modern-day Anglesey.)

I kinda debated on whether or not to cover Ysbaddaden Pencawr but I decided to because he is probably a giant you've all heard of and weaves into the 'giants associated with places' because his fort is supposed to be in their Preseli Hills which are in western Wales, mainly in the Pembrokeshire Coast Path. They also have really pretty bluestone and slate too!

Now, you all know the story in Culhwch and Olwen but I just kinda like the fact that Ysbaddaden means 'Hawthorn,' because it supposedly symbolised love and protection in Celtic mythology which, if u think about it, Ysbaddaden kinda loves Olwen in his own way. (I mean he'll die if she marries but, y'know. Doesn't mean he doesn't love her.)

Next up, IDRIS GAWR.

Yes, he of chair fame. If you go up it then supposedly you'll either come back down mad or a poet. I would seriously pray to become a poet. The walk down would make me mad enough. It's STEEP!

Now, before Arthur killed him and buried him up there, he was a king - who may have been a real-life dude. UNCLEAR! - and it was said that he could sit on the mountain and survey his whole kingdom which is COOL AS FUCK. Apparently, his motley band of giants: Yscydion, Ophrom, and Ysbryn also have mountains named after them in the vicinity of Cader Idris.

Next: Rhitta Gawr.

I distinctly remember him being one of my first brush-ins with Welsh Arthurian legends cuz I read about him on the back of a leaflet about Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon). If I recall, the detail that got me the most was the fact that Arthur supposedly defeated him by tricking him and pretending to eat a large amount of food but secretly depositing it into a sack and when Rhitta Gawr asked Arthur told him that he'd 'cut a hole in his stomach.' Rhitta, trusting this dude, who he LITERALLY WANTED TO FUCKIN KILL EARLIER, chopped a hole in his stomach and promptly died. 👌����👏🏻 Da iawn Rhitta. Now, also, I want to say that one of the various spellings of his name, 'Ricca' also pops up in 'Culhwch and Olwen' as Arthur's half-brother, the King of Cornwall. Idk if they are supposed to be the same person or not but, like, Arthur was a giant. It's possible.

Now, onto some little lads.

You'll notice that most of these lads were slain by Gwalchmai. I fear he was That Lad. For the Gawain Girlies, how does it feel to have Wales' best Giant fighter for your character?

(Also, NO LAUGHING AT PYSCOC. IT'S PRONOUNCED PEE-SCOC. Don't say, as my friend did, 'Castell Cock' when you mean Castell Coch. I will murder.)

Now, for the Cath Palug, tumblr with NOT let me add an image (boo!) So, I will write it up for you and then YAP.

'Palug (legendary)

Cath Palug is mentioned in a triad (YTP n. 26) where we are told that sow, Hen Wen (white head), while being followed by the magician Coll ap Collfrewy, brought forth a kitten at Maen Du in Llanfair in Arfon. Coll threw the kitten into the Menai (pls don't. The Swellies, man. THE SWELLIES.) and she was afterwards Cath Palug. Another version, (26 W) adds that the sons of Palug fostered it to their own harm. And that was Cath Palug and it was one of 'The Three Great Oppressions' nurtured therein.

The latter version treats Palug as a personal name but it's been also suggested that it could mean 'Scratching Cat.' (Very apt if u ask me.)

The only other mention of it is in 'Who is the Porter?' in the Black Book of Carmarthen:

'Cai the Fair went to Môn

To destroy hosts [or lions]

His shield was a fragment

Against Cath Palug

Nine score fierce [warriors]

Would fall as her food.'

The poem breaks off at this point but it's assumed Cai was the slayer.'

And then in Arthurian Legend: 'in the Vulgate either Arthur slayed the cat or was slayed by it. The Welsh version, which says Cai was the slayer, was also known to John Fordun who, in his Scotichromincon writes: 'But we have heard old hags tell some such fable - that it so happened that one of Arthur's soldiers - Kayus - had to fight an enormous tom-cat; which, seeing the soldier prepared to fight obstinately, climbed to the top of a great rock, and coming down, after having made its claws wondrous sharp for the fight, it gashed the rock with sundry clefts and winding paths beyond belief. Kayus, however, they say killed the cat.'

It's interesting that in the different versions of the triads the reason how Y Palug got her name is different. I'd argue that, perhaps, the Scratching Cat is the more likely reason for the name, as it has the common root 'pal' which might mean cut, lop, scratch claw, or dig pierce. It also shares the same root as palu (dig) and paladr (spear shaft.)

Also, the fragmentary poem says that Cai's shield is 'mynud' against the cat which can plausibly mean polished or mirrored. So he's a bit like Perseus against Medusa! Also, Cai as a giant is probably the perfect combative against a giant cat considering his powers. Like, I would NOT wish to fuck with Cai or Cath.

Anyways, that it for today! Hope u all enjoyed!! Also, I do absolutely think that Gwalchmai was justified in killing all those giants. He needed enrichment. The Giants probs pissed him or Gwenhwyfar off. I think she probably even helped him with some cuz I would.

Hwyl fawr!

(Also, if u have any suggestions as to what u wanna read about next lmk! Marriage laws will be up this Sunday!).

[whatsagoodusername]

I just woke up a week ago and became obsessed with Greek Mythology.

...

..

.

THE ORDER OF THE BEST GODS ARE

1 HERMES

2 APOLLO

3 ATHENA

4 GANYMEDE (Ok so technically he's not a god but he did get immortality and eternal youth by Zeus so I'm counting him)

5 ARTEMIS

6 HEPHESTUS

7 HERA

And that's all folks, those are the only one's with rankings, tell me your favorite Greek god, Percy Jackson, or Epic the Musical character in the comments below.

Also by the way this is supposed to be Ganymede if you've never heard of him. Basically the gist of his kidnapping across the various versions is that he was a son of Tros (A ruler or Troy). He was tending to his sheep when all the sudden Zeus as and eagle OR Zeus' eagle (Depending on the version) kidnap him. Why you might be saying? Well duh it's 'cause this immortal 1000+ year old man thought he was the most handsome mortal ever. Then Zeus basically said "Well you're really hot and handsome and I love you so you can be our cup bearer instead of Hebe (Goddess of Youth) because, well, like I said you're really hot." For all my non-ace's in the audience I tried to find an attractive depiction of him and I think this one might be it but most of the time he just looks like this...

Here are some more funfacts about Ganymede.

Ganymede and Zeus' relationship as stated a bit above is ....weird to say that least. Right? If you didn't say yes you've been reading way to much old men Yaoi. Well unfortunately this was a very common practice primarily in Japan (Specifically amoung Samurai) and ancient Greece. This practice was called Pederasty. Which was when a young man and an older man well... they did it (Dear all fanfiction writers this is weird don't write old men yaoi about this) I believe that this tradition comes from this so like Zeus didn't even know about this process and just said it was ok.

This one's for my astrology girlies and guys who just love space so much! The largest moon in our solar system is also named 'Ganymede' being 3,273.5 mil across ( 5268.18758km I looked that up BTW) is orbiting Jupiter. Jupiter is the Greek name for Zeus, I assume you know where this is going. It was fittingly named for their relationship with each other. The funniest part of this whole thing is that Hera, you know Zeus' wife AND SISTER! Isn't one of his 4 moons Ganymede, Lo, Callisto, and Europa. That's just tragic.

[aliciavance4228]

Ceres [Demeter] answered her : ‘Your tearful entreaties certainly affect me and I am keen to help you, but I cannot incur Venus's displeasure, for I maintain long-standing ties of friendship with her--and besides being my relative, she is also a fine woman. So you must quit this dwelling at once, and count it a blessing that I have not apprehended and imprisoned you.’

This is from the Myth of Eros and Psyche, where Psyche asks Demeter to help her, and her answer is basically something like: "Sorry girly, but this is my sexy bestie so I cannot betray her lolz." Not gonna like, Demeter calling Aphrodite a "fine woman" is something, especially when you know that Demeter herself is one of the horniest goddesses from Greek Mythology.

On a serious note though, since I don't remember any version of the myth of Adonis mentioning Demeter I cannot help but wonder what was her reaction when she found out that her daughter and one of her best friends are fighting over the same guy. Did she support her daughter's wrongs? Did she tell Hades to let her daughter do whatever she wants with that handsome guy? Did she just watched this shit in the same way somebody else would go to the cinema and eat popcorn? We will never know.

[dionysiaproductions]

Absolutely obsessed with the writing on KAOS which is wild because the trailer Netflix showed me made it look like it wouldn't be my cup of tea (despite being a mythology girlie).

My big 3 take aways from the first few episodes:

I've never seen anything where my Beloved-Babes-God, Dionysus is the main "kid" God. (What a fab choice from the non-binary showrunner)

The world being a modern surrealist version of Mythological Krete is giving the plot so much energetic novelty even though it's familiar stories. (This is another thing I've always wanted a show to do)

Hades being in black and white (Chefs kiss)

My overall on what's so effective about the show is that it's having fun with mythology. There's a tendency for writers to decide that a myth has to be profound and therefore it can't be stupid. Whereas in reality often the most profoundly human experiences we have and the moments that change our lives are also kind of stupid.

[mewizard]

mh if i made the reboot pt 1. essentially thinking about my personal headcanons, if it was marketed to a larger audience and had unlimited budget, as well as catering to pop culture

flats n deets below!!

the goal i settled on was like. aspirational career monster high dolls but for weird tweens who might not otherwise play with dolls

so they keep the darker/edgier lurk and each would have a specific field or subject associated with them

which is inspired by the mythological world of teens being able to do whatever that's present in a lot of 2000s media,. high school movies yknow. mean girls type stuff. i miss that from g1.

frankie is ib medicine/biology + engineering to a degree

i think being a man-made freakshow kept pumping by electricity and stitches would mean frankie would be a good poster child for the medicore tumblrinas

their doll would come with an iv drip and teeny pillboxes and their prosthetic could pop off to be switched between dolls

main colours are pastel blue and pink with neutral white and yellow highlights

their possible legs include a shaker. like novi stars but with eyeballs

i imagine loads of frankie leg shaker keychains lmao so maybe you could turn them into charms

spin offs include plasters, science kits like lemon clocks and circuits, entirely take-apartable anatomy doll, and a lolita style monster ball dress with trousers bc thats just obligatory

i dont know whats going on with the sock i just saw it and im sorry

put yourself in clawdeen's shoes. youre an outcast kid in the 2000s, always felt a little different, always buried your face in your artbooks... only to find out at 16 you're actually the wolf you always dreamed you'd be. of COURSE this one is for the sparkledog girlies

her tagline is kill the part of you that cringes. <- joke. soz

clawdeen's academic focus is finance/marketing/graphic design

i did think about making it fashion but thats kind of boring for a fashion doll. sorry rainbow high

also she had that whole thing in g1 where her fave subject was economics iirc. eekonomics, even

anyway she would run the fake social media for monster high. maybe the magazine. tweens still read magazines, right?

spin offs include furry cover artbooks galore, a colour-your-own set

for some reason i keep coming back to the idea of those how to price commissions/adoptables guides everyone was all over making on instagram back when i used instagram but idrk how to work that in

tosses her. idk i just thought id draw my ideal texture doll.

main colours are neon purples and pinks with green highlights (also a smidge of yellow i might scrap)

[literary-illuminati]

2024 Book Review #17 – Terra Incognita by Connie Willis

Connie Willis is a name I have heard come up a lot with regard to late 20th century American Science Fiction, but in a slightly odd way. The only thing she’s actually written that I’ve ever heard of is To Say Nothing of the Dog (a delightful-sounding book that tragically has a multimonth hold list at my library). Instead, I mostly know her from other books’ acknowledgement sections, or semi-mythologized folklore and anecdotes about the culture and community of the era. So I really picked this up as a matter of curiosity, to get a sense of what Willis’ whole deal is.

The book is a collection of three novellas, each basically totally unrelated with only the faintest attempt at a unifying theme to justify bundling the three of them together. Each work is pretty different from the others in everything from length (the longest is something like 3x the length of the shortest), tone, setting and subject matter, the works really. The first is a sort of romcom farce about surveyors charting an alien world that has, well, aged. The second and longest a love letter to classic classic hollywood and movie musicals as told from the POV of a self-hating drunk who pays the bills going through and retroactively editing the studio’s back catalogue to meet the whims of the executive of the day. The third and by far shortest is a lighthearted and very fannish comedy about a teenager getting conscripted to be a space cadet against her own ferocious objections.

The stories are all perfectly modern in, like, structure and pacing, but they still absolutely feel like they were written last century. Part of that is just word choice (the only thing that ages worse than old euphemisms for sex is old attempts to create futuristic slang), but it’s also just a general sensibility. Which is most cringe-inducing in the first story, both for its portrayal of the native species of the planet being surveyed (directly compared to native americans a few different times, characterized as relentlessly opportunistic penny-wise but pound-foolish hucksters leaping at the chance to sell their land for cheap imported consumer goods), and also just for a handling of gender and sexuality it’d take more time than I’ve got to really dig into. (I have a sense of where all those tomboy versus girly girl memes ultimately descend from now, though.) The other two more just felt out of time than actually wince-inducing, with the third story especially feeling like an affectionate nod to the fan culture of a different era. That said, the second one’s whole horrified preoccupation with a Hollywood that refuses to make anything new instead of just remaking the same sure things from its back catalog forevermore either never stopped or has looped back around to feeling real topical.

Insofar as I’m already reading romances, I admit I do have a real soft spot for the whole ‘idiots compensate for total refusal to communicate feelings with grand romantic gestures and hoping the object of their desires will get the idea. It doesn’t work.’ thing that’s a bit of a recurring beat in two of the novellas though.

Prose and characterization wise, all three were pretty well done – though riffing off tropes and archetypes that I honestly can’t remember the last time I’ve seen played sincerely and unironically, which did always leave me feeling I was missing context on how to read them. Which is pretty much what I was hoping for going in, to be clear – what’s the point of reading older stories, otherwise? Which is nice, because the actual reading experience of going through it was a bit of a slog. The first one was the real trial, but just overall I’d say the book’s more interesting as a cultural artifact than an artistic work. Oh well, c’est la vie.

[presidenthades]

Once again, I am doing a series of my behind-the-scenes thoughts for The Golds while I do light edits for formatting, typos, and continuity. Here’s Chapter 10!

For this chapter’s title, I chose the final lyric of “The Song of the Seven”: they see you, little children. The lyric is supposed to mean that the gods are always watching over you. In this fic, Jace and Aegon (and all the Targkids) are constantly being watched by their family, the court, and the realm because they are royal heirs. Although Jace and Aegon are adults by Westerosi standards, they’re still quite young—and now they have a child of their own to protect and watch over.

Aegon mentions in Chapter 6 that Jace hasn’t ugly-cried since she was 7, and now here’s the story! I discussed in previous commentaries how Rhaenyra and Laenor were trying for a son but after Joff was born, they called it quits. Since Joff was born sickly, Rhaenyra was distracted with that for several months. Once Joff was healthy, Rhaenyra decided to tell Jace on her seventh nameday—since seven is a special number in Westeros—about officially being her heir.

Prior to that, Jace is a normal, girly-girl child who’s only worried about games and such. She’s still well-behaved and responsible, but just in the “I need to make sure Luce brushes her teeth” sense rather than the “I have the weight of the realm on my shoulders” sense.

Laenor was like a Disney dad to Jace and Luce. He loved them but was often away living his own life, and when he came back he lavished them with presents to try to make up for it. Jace is careful with the dolls he gives her not only because she’s naturally a careful person, but also because they remind her of her father while he’s away. And to Laenor’s credit, he knows his daughters well enough that he can pick good presents for them. He notices that the dolls never last long in Luce’s hands so he gets less fragile stuff, while for Jace he buys delicate and expensive dolls because he knows she’ll appreciate them. I imagine he picks dolls wearing the clothes and hairstyles of whatever place he’s visiting, so Jace can use the dolls to learn what gowns are fashionable in Lorath or wherever.

Aegon is the eldest Targkid and he’s very important to Jace, so she gives a lot of weight to what he says. And Aegon has said a lot about how it sucks to be the heir and he’s glad he doesn’t have to do it. Now he’s regretting his big mouth 🥲.

Aegon was bad about carrying around handkerchiefs when he was younger, but he was always willing to sacrifice his sleeve if Jace needed it.

Aegon did indeed steal back Jace’s dolls from a 5-year-old, and I’m sure Luce bit him at least once (and yelled for Aemond to come hit Aegon). But once Luce realized how distraught Jace was about the dolls, she was willing to give them up. And Jace is very good about sharing, so Luce knows she can play with them whenever she wants.

Aegon doesn’t understand magic but he fully appreciates Joff’s help during the birth. If she hadn’t gone berserk in the middle of the night, she would have become his new favorite person after Jace and Cheeseball.

Is there symbolism in Aegon undoing his son’s swaddling and telling him “be free”?? Yeah probably.

Aegon was so worried about his influence being bad on the baby, but now he’s so proud and daydreaming about Cheeseball being a troublemaker like himself!

“I won’t be like my father. I’ll be better than him.” Foreshadowing for the rest of the chapter and Aegon’s arc in future fics? Yes it is! Also me pulling in some themes from Greek mythology, where sons becoming more powerful than their fathers is a common trope (Kronos vs his father Ouranos, Zeus vs his father Kronos, Zeus taking great pains to thwart his hypothetical son by his first wife Metis from being born so that son can never overthrow him).

Aegon’s little speech to Cheeseball is basically what Aegon wishes somebody had told him growing up. People called Aegon the future king and had high expectations for him. Aegon can’t stop other people from thinking and saying what they want to think and say, but he can make sure his son knows he has more value than his status as heir.

I’m not 100% sure but I think Aemond was voluntold to transport the egg, and Aemond is secretly pleased by the responsibility. Even though Aemond is awkward around his nephew, he does care about Elenar and he doesn’t want his nephew to grow up dragonless like himself. Aemond is concerned by the seeming imperfection of the egg (just as how he thinks his missing eye is an imperfection), but in the end, that “flaw” is a unique feature that makes the hatchling very special.

I enjoyed writing the juxtaposition of a serious conversation about politics and battle while Aegon is trying to help a baby pass gas 😂. Babies operate on their own timeline, they’re not waiting for the adults to finish speaking. If they need to fart, they need to fart.

Aegon would have been bloodthirsty toward the Tyroshi and Tyrosh in general, but he’s been busy taking care of Jace and then the baby. He prioritized giving attention to his family, and now that he has bandwidth to think about other things, a lot of that initial bloodthirst has died down because…well, Aegon is pretty happy with life right now. Jace is safe and happy, Elenar is safe and happy, so Aegon is content (and it helps that he’s seen what Daemon is doing in the Black Cells). But when Viserys disrupts that happiness, it kickstarts Aegon into action.

Aemond has been thinking a lot about how to avoid marrying Cassandra. His preference would be eloping with Luce, but she has hesitations because she knows his pride will likely lead to the marriage souring. Since he can’t talk her into that right now, he has to think of alternatives. If he remains in Westeros, Viserys could order lords and knights to send Aemond back to KL, which means Aemond would basically have to go rogue with Vhagar. Aemond could go traveling around Essos like many second sons, but that would make him look irresponsible. So he lands on the Stepstones option, which takes him physically far from Viserys’s reach and still allows him to fulfill his duties as a prince and dragonrider. Also, Aegon and Aemond left the Stepstones rather hastily so they could attend Jace and Aegon’s wedding. They arranged a deal with Racallio to make peace, but it ended up being a bandaid solution because Racallio is having trouble now. Aemond likes finishing what he started, so he also has that incentive to return to the Stepstones.

Aegon and Aemond aren’t the kind of guys to have a lot of heart-to-hearts, but Aegon still knows him really well. They aren’t friends, but they’re definitely brothers.

Luce fending off suitors from her island palace while Aemond is away = Penelope and Odysseus vibes, except our Penelope is NOT waiting for 20 years and she has a dragon that can take her places.

In Episode 9, Aemond stopped Aegon from running away from his duty. Here, Aegon is helping Aemond run away from his. Who would’ve thought Aemond would be the one shunning his duty? 🤪

Aegon has learned from his past mistakes. In Chapters 3 and 4, he forgot to communicate with Jace what he was doing, but now he makes sure to keep her apprised of his shenanigans.

Cheeseball being happiest while naked is another trait he shares with his father 😂. Both times when we’re introduced to Aegon (Ep 6 and Ep 8), he’s butt naked. He just seems really chill about casual nudity.

Aegon has been projecting dialogue and thoughts unto Cheeseball ever since he was in the womb, but honestly Aegon is probably accurate 99% of the time what his son is thinking and feeling.

Several months ago I saw a guy waiting in line at a fast-casual restaurant with a newborn, and he just started doing squats to soothe the baby. Hence, Aegon doing squats with Cheeseball and totally not caring that the entire court is watching him.

The Baratheons might be power-hungry, but they are genuinely mourning Floris. Most of them, at least. Cassandra is kinda heartless in F&B, so I could see her excitement about marrying a prince outweighing her grief. She’s done her homework about what (or whom) Aemond likes in the hopes that’ll make him like her better. Unfortunately, her efforts to evoke Luce spur him to flee the country instead 🥲.

Cregan is like twice Aegon’s size, but Aegon is still willing to fight him for hurting Jace’s feelings.

Deep down Viserys knew Jace and Aegon would NOT be happy about the fostering arrangement, and that’s why he didn’t say anything about it until they were at a public event where they can’t make a scene. But Aegon did make a scene, and that’ll be a cue for a lot of courtiers that there might be a schism among the Targs.

Viserys’s dragon dream is different than his show canon one (seeing his son wear the Conqueror’s crown), and what he sees gives him a greater sense of urgency re: the prophecy of the PTWP. He thinks it’s really important that the Targs forge a stronger bond with the Starks ASAP, so he’s speeding up the timeline for a fostering. Ironically, if Viserys set the fostering for age 7 like most, Jace and Aegon probably would’ve been unhappy but more accepting since it’s a normal arrangement. But yeah, this was really bad news for two new parents who just experienced a harrowing birth, and Jace’s emotions especially are still all over the place.

Viserys invoking being Aegon’s father when he’s done a shitty job of it 🫠.

To be fair to Cregan, he doesn’t really want to take Elenar as a ward at all, but like he said, it’s hard to say no to the king. And fostering a future king is supposed to be a huge honor.

In F&B, Baela gets dealt a crappy hand after the Dance. She marries Alyn Velaryon to avoid a worse marriage, but Alyn ends up being a serial cheater 😑. In this verse, with so many other Targ girls ahead of her in the succession for the throne and Driftmark, Baela has the option to not marry at all, especially if she goes the Queensguard route (Daemon would let her, and everyone is still thinking about Jace’s abduction so a sworn shield seems like an excellent idea to most people). But Jace knows Baela is reacting very emotionally right now and she didn’t want to entrap Baela in a lifelong oath she might regret later. For now though, it’s a good path for Baela so she can maintain her independence and stay near her family. Girl just needs to make sure not to enter any rebound relationships…

BTW if Daemon had an enemies list, he probably took the Targbros off but put Cregan on it instead because of the Baela situation.

Now we have a mirror scene of Aegon’s convo with Otto in Chapter 2! In Chapter 2, Aegon leaves the convo determined not to be involved in anything political because he wants to just focus on Jace. Now, Aegon realizes he has to be involved in politics if he wants to achieve what he and Jace want.

Otto truly isn’t happy with the fostering arrangement. The Starks aren’t happy with the Targs right now, and someone cynical might worry how Elenar is treated while he’s far away (he probably can’t even write a letter at age 4 to tell anyone what’s happening). As a prince and heir, Elenar would be accompanied by a household full of trusted servants and caretakers, but it isn’t the same as his own family keeping an eye on him. The North also isn’t a bastion of learning and diplomacy, so Otto is probably worried about what Elenar’s education will be like.

Since there’s so much genderbending in this verse, Targ princes are a hot commodity because there are only three of them in the current generation. Otto likes the Baratheon arrangement, but because Viserys offered Aemond as reparations, it affected how much the Crown could negotiate from the betrothal contract. And like Otto said, bad precedent: “Did the Targs wrong you? That’s ok, you’ll get a royal marriage or ward in exchange.”

I originally wanted another scene with Bethany in this fic but there wasn’t room for it. Her face is scarred very badly, and this hampers her marriage prospects (which is a lot of the value of a highborn girl in Westeros). Remaining as Jace’s LIW sends a message that Bethany is being honored rather than sent away where nobody can see her scars, and if Bethany is unable to marry, she still has a position of status and privilege at court. Bethany’s family isn’t happy about the attack at the Sept, but they’re grateful she at least survived. And since they have close ties to Alicent and Otto, they’re willing to be less grumbly than the Baratheons and Starks.

Otto gives zero credence to things like prophecy, so he is worried Viserys might be suffering a mental decline/break. This especially concerns him after Viserys has publicly declared that as king, his word is law (re: the fostering, but Otto is also thinking about Viserys keeping Rhaenyra as heir).

Otto might not care personally about the smallfolk, but he definitely appreciates the power of popular appeal, which Jace and Aegon have in spades. Otto sees that Aegon has a natural instinct for certain aspects of politics, and he’s frustrated that Aegon refuses to engage unless it’s by accident or at Jace’s behest. Otto knows what Aegon is like, so he pushes all the right buttons to trigger Aegon and motivate him to act.

A lot of Jace’s hangups about food are because of her fear of moon tea. But she wants to overcome that mental roadblock so she can continue with her life, and now moon tea is beneficial rather than harmful. She’ll probably still have some trouble with drinking it, but Aegon will be there to help her, and they’ll probably learn about/invent other contraceptive methods to double up on protection.

Aegon is willing to commit war crimes for Jace and she knows it, but she’s too lawful good to take advantage.

So many commenters were rooting for future Alyssa x Elenar! And at least one person suggested Elenar having a polygamous marriage with both Alyssa and Viserra (Daemon would love that lol). We shall see what happens! The kids are still developing their personalities.

Daemon resigned himself to Jace/Aegon a while ago, and now he’s spying a new opportunity to potentially get his blood on the throne one day 👀. Which means it behooves him to play nice with Aegon, who is understandably suspicious of Daemon being nice to him. I also think Daemon, after his growth arc in the Handbook, would like for his daughters/stepdaughters to have some semblance of happiness. And now that he’s begrudgingly admitted to himself that the Targbros aren’t so bad, he’s kind of insulted that Viserys is just handing out royal princes to any house willy-nilly.

“Much sorrow, many tears.” I haven’t seen Queen Charlotte but I have seen the memes of Charlotte going “sorrows, prayers” constantly. If you’re wondering whether there’s a connection…yes.

Viserys was 100% a snitch when he was growing up.

Joff didn’t have a real first meeting with Elenar. She passed out in the birthing room, and then she had her Exorcist moment that night. She just wants to meet her nephew without any drama 🥺.

Aegon isn’t particularly interested in magic in the first place, and he knows that way lies madness, so he decides the possible benefits of digging for more info aren’t worth the trouble. He’s had two months to let his anger settle and mull over the events. If the candle is the reason for Joff’s behavior, and if Joff is willing to put the candle aside, then he’s willing to move forward and carefully allow her interaction with Elenar as she regains his trust that she won’t act like that again.

Joff can be really sneaky about her words and actions, but she has a pretty strong personal code of conduct. If she did something wrong, she’ll own it, and if she makes a promise, she’s keeping it—which is why she’s so sneaky about it in the first place.

Viserys is not a good father, but generally it IS a father’s duty to arrange a good marriage for his daughter, which is arguably what he did for Helaena. But anyone who knows Helaena’s preferences (so definitely not Viserys) knows that she would hate a marriage taking her away from her family (and Rhaena) and forcing her to have a bunch of children.

It could be argued that it’s unwise for Viserys to wed a female dragonrider outside of the house, and this is true. But options for Helaena’s husband are limited. There are very few Targ princes in this universe. As for the other Valyrian families, the Celtigars are still kinda in disgrace from the Clement incident, and the only Velaryon men are from cadet branches like Vaemond’s sons, who have no inheritance worthy of a king’s daughter. The other option is for Helaena to remain unwed, which is her preference, but Viserys is trying to play politics 😒. At least he could address the dragon issue by declaring that none of Helaena’s children are permitted to have eggs or claim dragons—if he thinks of doing so.

Joff and Daeron are the little siblings trying desperately to keep up with their older siblings, and Aegon is NOT having it.

Before Joff and Daeron were born, Luce was the baby of the royal nursery, so she spent a lot of her early years running after the others. Then after the Driftmark funerals, Aemond and his siblings left with their parents for KL while Rhaenyra and her daughters stayed longer—only for Luce and her sisters to realize they weren’t returning home to KL but moving to Dragonstone. Then of course there was Aemond’s first trip to the Stepstones (I don’t think Luce even had a chance to say goodbye that time). Then when she was fostering at Driftmark, Aemond visited often but had to leave at the end of every visit. So Luce has developed a bit of a complex where she feels like Aemond is always going somewhere and she can’t go with him.

I realized that Aemond ended up being a very important secondary relationship for Aegon in this fic, so I wanted to make sure they got one last scene together. Daeron is also Aegon’s brother but he’s much younger, whereas Aemond has been his partner in crime for most of his life 🥲.

Aegon is actually pretty decent at planning logistics for his schemes. There’s this scene with the council, and earlier in the fic there was the raid on the warehouse, and in the Handbook I feel like he had a strong role in plotting the elopement.

“I am, as ever, your obedient son.” Aegon is so damn sassy in that moment 😭.

Viserys had put all of his children where he thought they belonged in his masterplan (kinda like how he puts all the pieces in his model of Valyria exactly where he thinks they belong), but Aegon (whom Viserys is quick to blame) has upended the board. Now Viserys is wondering if he needs to be worried about what Aegon will be up to in the future…

Is the white raven announcing the end of summer a symbol? 👀👀👀 Honestly this day is probably one for the history books. End of summer, Prince Aemond departs for the Stepstones, Aegon’s nameday, and a new dragon hatches.

The hatchling mostly resembles Sunfyre (like how Elenar mostly resembles Aegon), but with some sunrise coloring as the culmination of all the sun/morning symbolism throughout the fic. The blue eye is like a sign from the universe that even though Aemond is away, he’s still with his family in spirit 🥲.

[astrids-multiverse]

this is the post where I introduce my atsv ocs ( briefly)

marena chavez / aqua-spider ( earth 1738 ): marena a independent, stubborn and feisty but she's a sweet girl if you stick around long enough to see that she's more than just her anger issues and has a great big heart. as long as you stay out of her bad sign, you'll be fine. and as long as you treat her with respect and kindness, you'll receive the same from her. marena does not tolerate any kind of disrespect and has no problem giving people what they deserve and putting them in their place ( it doesn't matter who's being disrespectful, she won't tolarate that, even if it's an adult being disrespectful, she does not care ). she has a strong sense of justice and will do anything possible to help her friends and all people. marena is not afraid of anything and will use that to her advantage to help others. marena loves the beach, afternoon swims, the sunsets, sunrises, butterflies, making flower crowns, enjoys photography, and makes bracelets for friends. she's a spider man variant of earth 1738 and besides her spider related abilities, she has hydrokinesis powers which she is known as aqua-spider.

alberto chavez / solace ( earth 1738 ): he's a silly and chaotic type of person, but he'll make you laugh for sure and will always find a way to lighten the mood. he also is always laughing at something, which manages to piss off miguel ( but alberto has no fucks to give ). alberto loves to pull pranks on others ( might as well call him the king of pranks ), soccer, making origami, playing video games and making his friends laugh. he's not a spiderman variant, but he is marena's twin brother and resides with spider society. his abilities include sun related powers such as pyrokinesis and sun beams, earning the alias solace.

jacqueline "jacky" baena / emerald mayhem ( earth 1610 ): jacky is a sweet, innocent, and loving girl. she takes academics very seriously and studies hard day and night. but when she's not studying, she loves to daydream, greek mythology, musicals, animals, write songs, play her guitar and loves painting. jacky is friendly, but shy. she's best friends with miles morales and goes under the alias emerald mayhem due to her magic abilities. she's caring, loves her friends, rambles about her favorite books and fictional characters.

louis salazar / spider-whiz ( earth 9227 ): this guy? he's a big nerd and will spit out random fun facts at any time of the day. Louis is awkward at first, but he'll eventually warm up to one. While he is knowledgeable about everything, he is passionate about technology and mechanics. he enjoys playing board games ( especially chess ), working on new inventions, and solving math problems and rambling about philosophy. Louis is a spider-man variant from earth 9227 known as spider-whiz for his tech inspired suit and gadgets that he utilizes besides relying on his spider abilities.

magdalena greco / spider-gal ( earth 8339 ): magdalena is a classy girl with a lot of confidence. she loves being a matchmaker, making pop culture references and gossiping a lot ( though it gets her in trouble ). she adores anything pink, makeup, iced coffee, clothing, fashion, shopping and aspires to become a fashion designer. magdalena loves to give fashion advice to her friends and to build up their confidence. she is another spider-man variant from earth 8339 otherwise known as spider-gal for her pink and girly manners.

[thicc-ray-of-sunshine]

Just a blurb about growing up watching Gravity Falls and being a twin irl-

It was really weird watching it as a kid I am a twin and my brother and I quite literally were Dipper and Mabel. I was the bright and colorful pretty princess who loved crafts and glitter glue and my brother was super into reading about Greek mythology and astrology. Like it was so beyond jarring seeing us literally portrayed on screen. it also hurt A LOT because that was so us when we were small and we got along great when we were tiny but I grew up really resentful as a kid. It was just us and my Mom and don't get me wrong she's an amazing Mother but she spent a great deal more time doing stuff with my brother as a kid and I really hated it. I tore down all of my likes and girly-ness in favor of being a tomboy so I could be more a part of my brothers boyscout troop where my mother was a den leader. I forced myself to hate myself out of the idea that my Mom liked my brother more than me. Which was never true So I grew up sort of hating my brother for stuff that no one really had any control over.

So seeing this perfect little idealized version of me and my brother and what we should have been as kids really fucked me up. And then to see the parallels between Stanley and Stanford's relationship as twins fucked me up even harder because why couldn't I just be Mabel? Why was I Stanley at the ripe age of 12?

As an adult my relationship with my Mom and my twin brother is a lot better and we've talked about everything and how it affected our dynamic as a family. But it still just rips my heart out seeing the childhood I should have had and deserved to have.

[shizuma-akira]

[Lishi Ning - Hundun]

Toyhouse profile

| Legendary | Shimmer | Fighter |

Age : 42 - September 9, 1985

Height : 192cm (202cm with heels)

Favorite : Chaos & trinkets

Affiliation : Shadow Decree

Occupation : Shadow Pillager

Mythology

Origin : Chinese

Hùndùn (混沌), primordial and central chaos, a legendary faceless being.

Related Characters

Squadron Kunlun - Former military unit

Hyde - Superior

Jiang Jiuli - Friend (Love interest)

Jekyll (OC) - Temporary trainer

Nicole - Friend

Jeanne - Friend

[FULL BODY AND EXTRA STUFF BELOW]

Lishi Ning is my second Dislyte OC that was made for shipping, first being Qin Xiu with Luo Yan.

Her Esper transformation brought amnesia, she only remembers the current last 10 years of her life as a soldier for the Shadow Decree; Ning was found by Hyde, and Fu Shi somewhat keeps an eye on her from a distance, interested, as he thought her amnesiac condition and showing no emotions was like Embla's, but he was wrong, she's masking her undiagnosed ADHD (& depression) that worsened after turning into an Esper 💀.

The few info about her that's accessible in-lore is about her being in the military, beyond that? She's not interested to know, as there's only clues of her literally dying and then getting Esperized in 2017.

Ning was assigned to keep Jiang Jiuli under surveillance for a while, times where Nicole was not available to do so - there's no explanation yet in how Nicole is able to stop Jiuli's berserk form, but since she's a scientist we can assume it's with some type of chemical or something 😭-, Ning's method of putting JJ out of berserk would be with brute force KJDFHS

It was just a temporary job, but girlie got new friends amiright

[pastelpousay]

This is sort of another rant I think my friends hate me 💀 and this Hadina ship is lowk ruining my life but it’s like the only thing bringing me joy 💀

This is literally me being upset about something stupid that happened earlier 💀I love my friends but sometimes I’m so sick of them. Like okay story time 😽

So a while ago I went over to my friends house and we started talking about my self ship for whatever reason 💀😭 for background my friend is pagan and he believes in Greek mythology and I literally exspressed to him a moment before this that I had been feeling bad about talking about it so much since Hercules isn’t myth accurate but like girl 💀 ain’t no one care I’m sorry it’s a Disney cartoon bruh😭 get over it. and HE LITERALLY SAID HE DIDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT LIKE BRO SO TELL MY WHY NOT EVEN A MINUTE LATER HES ASKING ME ABOUT WHERE PERSEPHONE IS IN THE LORE OF MY HADINA STORY 💀I love pershades Like Persephone x Hades for life!!! I don’t have a problem with other hades ships at all like I love seeing it 💗. But Like I already feel guilty for liking the movie and about not being able to add Seph to my story but like I’m sorry 😭 this isn’t about her😭😭like wym girly ain’t here-

AND LITERALLY YESTERDAY THIS MF 💀 I LITERALLY POSTED A PICTURE OF MY ART IN OUT DISC SERVER OF RINA ANGST AND LITERALLY HE DIDNT EVEN THINK TO COMPLIMENT MY WORK FIRST AND IMMEDIATELY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT PERSEPHONE 😭 I HATE LIARS NIGGA YOU KEEP SAYING YOU LIKE MY STORY AND MY OCS BUT NO YOU DONT WHY ARE TOU A LIAR. Like I get it’s your religion but let me have my fun and I’ve been talking about this with my bestie and she literally said he needs to get over it it’s literally a disney cartoon 💀😭😭 I CANNOT ITS KILLING ME BRUH LEAV ME ALONE LIKE I GET HE DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING BAD BY IT BUT STILL LIKE IT HIRT MY FEELINGS CUZ WHY DID YOU LIE 😭😭😭😭 LIKE GIRL IM NOT GONNA KILL YOU TF-

okay that’s it I’m done I just had to share this even tho I’ve been talking about it for literal hours but it still pissed me tf off💀😭 btw sorry if this comes off as insensitive I mean every word of what I meant about the I don’t care if you ship hades with others, the ships are cute I love em!! 💗 but can this mf at the bare minimum accept my happiness like girl you want me to kms?? 💀