#we allowed to be upset about it
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pengillys · 6 months ago
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caeslxys · 7 months ago
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I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but it feels relevant again in light of the most recent episode. Something that’s really fascinating to me about Orym’s grief in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief is that his is the youngest/most fresh and because of that tends to be the most volatile when it is triggered (aside from FCG, who was two and obviously The Most volatile when triggered.)
As in: prior to the attack on Zephrah, Orym was leading a normal, happy, casual life! with family who loved him and still do! Grief was something that was inflicted upon him via Ludinus’ machinations, whereas with characters like Imogen or Ashton, grief has been the background tapestry of their entire lives. And I think that shows in how the rest of them are largely able to, if not see past completely (Imogen/Laudna/Chetney) then at least temper/direct their vitriol or grief (Ashton/Fearne/Chetney again) to where it is most effective. (There is a glaring reason, for example, that Imogen scolded Orym for the way he reacted to Liliana and not Ashton. Because Ashton’s anger was directed in a way that was ultimately protective of Imogen—most effective—and Orym’s was founded solely in his personal grief.)
He wants Imogen to have her mom and he wants Lilliana to be salvageable for Imogen because he loves Imogen. But his love for the people in his present actively and consistently tend to conflict with the love he has for the people in his past. They are in a constant battle and Orym—he cannot fathom losing either of them.
(Or, to that point, recognize that allowing empathy to take root in him for the enemy isn't losing one of them.)
It is deeply poignant, then, that Orym’s grief is symbolized by both a sword and shield. It is something he wields as a blade when he feels his philosophy being threatened by certain conversational threads (as he believes it is one of the only things he has left of Will and Derrig, and is therefore desperately clinging onto with both bloody hands even if it makes him, occasionally, a hypocrite), but also something he can use in defense of the people he presently loves—if that provocative, blade-grief side of him does not push them—or himself—away first.
(it won’t—he is as loved by the hells as he loves them. he just needs to—as laudna so beautifully said—say and hear it more often.)
#critical role#cr spoilers#bells hells#orym of the air ashari#cr meta#imogen temult#ashton greymoore#liliana temult#this is genuinely completely written in good faith as someone who loves orym#but is also about orym and so will inevitably end up being completely misconstrued and made into discourse. alas#I could talk about how Orym’s unwillingness to allow the hells to actually finish/come to a solid conclusion on Philosophy Talk#is directly connected to one of the largest criticisms of c3 (that they are constantly having these conversations)#all day. alas. engaging with orym’s flaws tends to make people upset#it is ESP prevelant when he walks off after exclaiming ‘they (vangaurd) are NOT right’#which was not only never said but wasn’t even what they were talking about#he even admits as much to imogen like ten minutes later! that he is incapable of viewing it objectively#which is 100% justifiable and understandable but simultaneously does not make his grief alone the most important perspective in the world#also bc i fear ppl will play semantics on my tags yes the line ‘i hope she’s right’ was said but it was from ASHTON#who does not believe they are at all and wasn’t saying they actively WERE right. orym just heard something to latch onto and ran with it#ultimately there is a reason orym only admitted that he was struggling when he had stepped away to talk to dorian#who has not been around and thusly has not changed once n orym's eyes#and it isn't that the hells never check in or care. they do. they have several times over#it is dishonest to say they haven't#the actual reason is that all of this is something He Is Aware Of. he doesn't mention it bc he KNOWS it's hypocritical and selfish#he says as much!#EXHALES. @ MY OWN BRAIN CAN WE THINK ABT MOG AGAIN. FYRA RAI EVEN. FOR ME.#posting this literally at 8 in the morning so I can get my thoughts out of my brain but also attempt to immediately make this post invisibl
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oceanwithouthermoon · 3 months ago
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maybe its just me but i cant stand when people are like "it just doesn't sit right with me how teruhashi thought about aiura đŸ„ș" like yes... its not supposed to ??? because her thinking badly of other girls and prioritizing male validation over everything is one of her main flaws ??? can we talk about that WITHOUT making it seem like shes not allowed to have a single actual flaw without suddenly becoming an awful person? nobody can handle complex female characters at all and its so fucking annoying
#you guys all missed the point of her development AND her and saiki's relationship development#like did you miss the parts where the only times he genuinely seems to not like something she does is when shes mean to other girls#and he still understands that she isnt a bad person for having bad thoughts in the private comfort of her mind#and besides... in this case she was literally just being a dramatic and insecure teenage girl LMAO#like dont fucking lie to me and tell me when you were her age you didnt have similar thoughts#youre worse than her if you lie about it while judging her for it#sorryyyy#she shouldve been MORE unhinged youre all just cowards#AND ALSO ? how can something even be 'mean' if its just a thought#thats like if u opened ur friends private diary without permission and then unfriended them over something they said in a random upset vent#and in this specific situation if u found out ur friend called someone a bitch because they liked the same person as her ??#LIKE THATS ?? its bad but its not as crazy as you guys make it out to be#shes allowed to be angry and insecure in the privacy of HER OWN MIND#idk if this makes sense but i just feel that her thoughts are more of a concern about her wellbeing than anything else#like she canonically is extremely kind to others even when she doesnt want to be so why are we worried about how she treats others.#theyre fine. im worried about HER.#and WHY her mindset is so negative... but u guys dont give a shit because u cant handle even a spec of complexity#sorry ive said all this before i just like to rant#saiki k#tdlosk#the disastrous life of saiki k.#teruhashi kokomi#meows post
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qifreyplushie · 1 month ago
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i was sitting here like "y'know i'm really pissed that mxtx scrapped hua cheng's backstory". and then i remembered i had free will. so i might be building my own story for hong'er and the tumultuous childhood he lead and what his mother and father were like based off of the three crumbs offered to us in the story . 😁 AND IT'S GONNA BE ROUGH
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sergle · 11 months ago
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FOREWARNING FOR GROSS-OUT SKIN CLOSEUP SHIT DON'T YELL AT ME FOR SHOWING YOU has anyone else gotten this really weird phenomenon on youtube. I swear every algorithm on every website is actively and purposely worse now. Where you'll be scrolling through vids after searching for something (I was looking at crochet stuff) and SANDWICHED IN THE MIDDLE OF ACTUAL SEARCH RESULTS... YOU KNOW. LIKE THINGS RELEVANT TO THE KEYWORDS I TYPED
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are a couple of completely out of left field SHOCK VALUE VIDS. like to intentionally be alarming. drama vids and things you're enticed to click on bc they're upsetting, and deep deep closeups on zits. what the fuck is going on. Sandwiched between videos about GRANNY SQUARES. crack? is it crack we're smoking????
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wistfullywaiting2 · 6 months ago
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i'm literally Dazai’s favorite protĂ©gĂ© because i am so understanding and kind and i do not complain when he uses me in his plans without my knowledge and he doesn’t even have to apologize for it because i accept it as the only way without any convincing and when his plans hurt me i take all of the pain it gives and accept that pain as part of my very existence and i offer no resistance and i bleed so prettily all over my tiger fur and my guts all unspool like the most delicious meal and my eyes are kind and naive and hold no accusation and every time it destroys me i get pieced back together and come right back to continue being his protĂ©gĂ© because Dazai cares about me so so much and he always chooses me as his sacrifice every time because he knows i’ll come back and he always places one hand on my head to calm me while he makes his plans and he doesn't do it for the other protĂ©gĂ© only me because i'm his favorite
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topaziraphale · 1 year ago
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"Stop saying Crowley won't help Aziraphale in S3 he'd go back to him in a HEARTBEAT and nothing would stop him" I get it no one likes the idea of Crowley being bitter after what happened for a long period of time but like can we at least acknowledge that he's currently going through probably the most emotional pain in his life since falling? Can we agree that he's opened his heart entirely - something you couldn't pay him to do unless the world is literally ending and he's desperate - to Aziraphale, and got shot down? Can we understand that he did it AGAIN only to lose Aziraphale again? Not that what Aziraphale did isn't without Crowley's own shortcomings (hiding the truth of Heaven's cruelty from him) but like,,,,
The appeal here isn't Scorned Crowley Doesn't Love Aziraphale Anymore, or Never Wants To Help Him Again, the appeal here is Crowley learning enough self respect to not just walk back right to Aziraphale like nothing happened after Aziraphale has had a pattern of consistently refusing him. Going years ping-ponging between "We're not friends I don't even know him" to "That's what friends are for right?" and "We're friends, why would you even say anything?" and "Friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon!"
Like I get it, Crowley is a heartbreakingly forgiving person. Of course he's gonna forgive Aziraphale, I'll be surprised if he didn't forgive him by the time he walked out the bookshop door, but gdi he could at least grant himself the luxury of being at least a little irritated for longer than however long it takes to make a globe and some books float and angrily cry out to God in his flat. But due to the change of pace and dynamic that is establishing part of the conflict for Season 3, I just really like the idea of him for ONCE prioritizing himself and being like "Okay, fine. We'll get back at it when you're ready, then," instead of just taking Aziraphale back like his words and actions meant nothing to him, when clearly they have an effect on him.
What is Aziraphale going to learn if Crowley just accepts what he did so quickly, like he always has the entire time they've been friends? Idk maybe I'm just projecting too much darkness on their dynamic but I mean, if the pattern of Aziraphale pushing Crowley away/disrespecting him one day and then being fine with his friendship the next + Crowley never stopping to be like "Hey, that's not cool, at least give me a little credit" or smth was fine all along and will continue to be fine in the future, then why, after 6,000 years of being friends and loving this demon, can Aziraphale still not accept that Crowley is just fine the way he is, and instead got excited to promote him to an angel in a heartbeat once the opportunity presented itself? You can't blame all of it on Heaven when Aziraphale has demonstrated his free will/defiance to Heaven so many times. Or, I don't know, I guess maybe we can? Maybe I'm just craving too much angst to the point where I'm letting it cloud my analysis of canon. Idk.
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valewritessss · 2 months ago
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I’ve seen someone say that Sally was selfish and inconsiderate for telling Percy they need his room for Estelle???
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eikichi-supremacy · 5 months ago
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and they were singin', bye-bye Miss American Pie // american oldie i think kuwabara unironically listens to
(low effort lyric edit im queueing here in May cos im probably gonna forget it exists otherwise)
#qeued post#for June cos hey pride#the idea of kuwa seeing his friends in a holy almost godly light namely yusuke#and having them all leave unexpectedly#cos before that night at Genkai's i feel like it was solidified in kuwa's brain DESPITE the sidekick complex#DESPITE the fact that he's human and the least powerful member they are still decidedly a team#A team he has a place on. But then all suddenly springing this... YUSUKE springing this departure on him. shatters that belief#yusuke says he'll be back and it seems to make things better but even so kuwabara's face still looks so solemn when he leaves#Likely cos he knows yusuke is just saying shit and doesn't even know if it's possible to come back#this wasn't supposed to be a kuwameshi post it's really not but there's always that undertone when i talk about them so#He just admires them all so much yusuke above all others only to be left behind and that's gotta fuckin hurt#The way we don't see the resolution to this feeling. The lack of belonging the abandonment#next time we see him he's just supposed to be over it but we don't really know if it actually happened#So I like to play with the idea of like . Did he really like healthily accept things or#did he just repress it and deal. Cos like eng dub he tells yusuke ''forget all that stuff I said'' immediately taking back#his harsh words bc it's either stay mad stay upset or quickly forgive and move on cos this could be the last time. or even the jdub#where he doesn't even allow the vulnerability to show enough to trail off he just spouts the normal shit bc it's what they DO he immediatel#tries to get back to the normal dynamic and push himself to being fine with it right now bc he doesn't have the luxury of being upset#when it doesn't matter cos yusuke's leaving. the last thing he hears from him shouldnt be reckless shit he was saying when he lashed out#aka i dont think kuwa's feelings get seriously addressed enough and this episode haunts me cos of that very fact#Im not making any sense. Nico as my witness I swear I was more eloquent yapping to him about it#kuwabara kazuma#yu yu hakusho#kuwameshi
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thexoonder · 4 months ago
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You know, first I was like, "There's no way Sol Regem is going to agree to be essentially used for someone else's benefit"
Then I was proven wrong and immediately thought,"There's no way he's gonna do what they want him to do"
And I am both glad and upset I was right.
Also glad that we got our exact five minutes of Aaravos time, no more no less (We lost and won)
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valyrfia · 8 months ago
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i'm like n1 lecfosa but i have to say some of the anons i've seen in other people's inboxes because they think that charles could've driven better today or that carlos deserved the win....have not been it. if you have an opinion to say, please just post it on your own blog and put your own name to it rather than going to terrorise and spit on someone who doesn't agree with you while retaining the luxury of hiding behind an anonymous icon. or even better, if you're upset, stick to the blogs that you know share your opinions.
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angelnumber27 · 5 months ago
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It’s so embarrassing and heartbreaking being in so much pain over losing someone while knowing they don’t give a fuck if you live or die. Your favorite person becoming a stranger is a special kind of hell.
#I fucking hate having bpd#while I’m at it I don’t understand the fuckin audacity some people have to say they love you and do horrible things to you#I feel so stupid#I feel so stupid for believing all the lies#but I was so in love and put him on such a pedestal that I just allowed it all.#thinking about someone constantly and grieving over them and knowing they’re perfectly fine and to them you don’t exist#I’m still in such a state of grief and I don’t understand why time hasn’t healed#it honestly feels like it’s gotten worse w time#I just torture myself but I can’t help it my brain wants me dead#it’s so painful I feel so fucking stupid#being abandoned with no closure by someone who’s your entire world#for someone they were unfaithful to you with multiple times (I don’t even know how many and dony want to know) immediately#like that was the plan all along#he took our cat hundreds of miles away and I don’t even know if he still has her or if she’s still alive and I miss her every day#I never loved someone like that and it feels like the heartbreak is actually physically killing me#i spent 1/5 of my entire life with him#I was my prettiest and had the best body at the time and I wasted it on someone who didn’t appreciate me#not wasted. it wasn’t wasted. we had some incredible times together#I’ll never be that beautiful again#and now idk what do so bc i can’t decide which is worse: being alone and isolating or loving deeply and ending up horribly hurt all over#it’s all just so upsetting.#and I feel so stupid for allowing it all#he knows more about me than anyone and he made me feel like he loved me so much sometimes and then did horrid things and it’s so fucked up#nobody read this I’m so embarrassed and horribly broken#it traumatized me so much there was so much abuse and pain idk if I’ll ever recover#I deserved it but it still hurts my heart#I was so mentally ill and sick I know it had to have been miserable to be around me#there are so many things only he understands and knows about me and I need to talk about them I j wanna b able to b there 4 each other#but that girl is so beyond insecure and controlling so. if I want to talk to who fuckin gets me I’m just fucked#why lead someone on like that for years knowing you’re going to abandon them the second it’s convenient
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ratatatastic · 28 days ago
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lmaoooo maffhew wanting the knot immediately and having to wait for sasha to catch up with that is so deeply funny like. this omega is not subtle and you’re not a stupid alpha babe! can only imagine what benny has to say to maffhew about it once he catches on and stops banging his head against a wall
idiots to lovers is always great but especially when its two people who would be hitched with 10 kids by now if they stopped being dumb for a single second like its that easy and yet...
to me they very much fall around the same time (infatuation at first scent if you will) just that sasha takes some time to get there not because he's dumb (okay he's a little dumb) but in the sense that its like "this person is very interested in me, i can see and recognise that but theres so much cognitive dissonance in my brain right now between knowing that intrinsically and finding that hard to believe so i unintentionally play dumb because obviously i'm reading too much into things it cant be me they're interested in haha that'd crazy but they're being awfully touchy and flirty with me wow"
but also it takes two to tango and we have to acknowledge that and this is when i would love to bring up the ways in which this man decides is the best way to go about that because he is a catholic school girlie... there's so much hilarity to be had here especially because his flirting is very uh how you say... a little ass backwards if you will especially considering dynamics
"I make it a point to keep the door closed when we're alone in a room together! That's basically a clear invitation that I'm down to fuck!!! Im basically asking to be ragdolled on his knot!!!"
and Benny just pinches the bridge of his nose like "I don't know how to explain to you in a way you'll understand that not everyone went to Catholic school."
But saying that Sasha does side-eye the door knob heavily when Maffhew goes over to close it the first time and he starts sweating like he just got dragged into a game of 7 Minutes in Heaven he did not sign up for and he's 13 again and oh god he got paired with a really cute girl, and he hasn't even had his first real kiss yet and-
And then absolutely nothing happens because Maffhew is just waiting with a polite expectant smile (because his work here is done, he did the heavy lifting know it's Sasha's turn) and this is when Sasha's dynamic classes training kicks in and he basically scolds himself for even assuming in the first place because this is clearly a show of trust (correct) not an invitation for extra circular activities (incorrect buzzer noise) and it basically becomes "This Omega really trusts me, I'm honoured especially as Pack Leader that I'm able to be so accepted into such a private space with the inherent knowledge that I will not encroach their boundaries whatsoever because consent is verbal, this is not in any way an invitation to take advantage of them this is deep platonic trust I will guard with my life :]"
and if you listen closely you can hear the lovely sounds of Maffhew bashing his head into a wall about how much of a gentleman Sasha is but also COME ONNNNNN... you know... once Maffhew realises what's happening which (looks at my watch) is not due for another few months really
Battle of wills: unstoppable force (maffhews catholic school understanding of dynamic interactions) vs immovable object (overseas alpha cotillion classes)
And if you think it's an Oh! An overseas dynamic thing! It's not. The Euros are watching the horrible car crash in front of them and doing absolutely nothing about it because it's none of their business, but they will stare at it... maybe judge it a bit but definitely are observing from the tall grass.
and I'm also not saying that luosty lundy forsy and bobby have a current running bet of how long it'll take for maffhew to break sasha in but i'm also not not saying that... luosty goaded lundy in the midst of a gossip session ("It has to be 3 months, right?) forsy happened to be around so lundy turned to him for advice ("7 months.") and maybeeee bobby overheard from all the way over from his stall and puts in his two cents for what it's worth ("6. Captain nice but not that nice. Very impatient." "So 3!" "No. Impatience makes him double the time, and wait longer. 6 months.") (lundy finally settles on a good 5 months because he's indecisive)
And Sasha does eventually pick up everything maffhew is throwing down... eventually... and when he does it becomes more so I want to court this omega the way they deserve I will take this slow and romance them sweetly :) *smash cut to maffhew caterwauling like a cat in heat*
but also once again its not like maffhew is helping sasha in any way this is idiot4idiot and benny would like to enjoy the car crash with the euros but unfortunately that's his soulmate, thats his bestie, his littermate from birth who has been weaned on the same teat as they climbed over each other to get to it, the first girl you kissed in your childhood bedroom because somehow you started play fighting on the bed because she was like i could totally pin you down easy and then she does and you always noticed how beautiful she was but shes even more gorgeous when she's pinning your wrists to your hannnah montana duvet you promised yourself youd changed out before she came over but you forget and well she teased you about it and you cant help but giggle about how perfect this all is and it seems that the natural conclusion to this is to taste the strawberry lipgloss of her lips because whats a kiss between besties huh its tacky and sticky and it tastes like summer and just other apt metaphors to put here about the inherent -isms of their relationship that i nearly cant put to words properly other than girls having fun (they are fucking)
and well anyways benny is watching and he has a lot of things to say about how its been proceeding so far
"You should really use your words."
"I am!"
"Right because smelling like a fucking perfume shop in the middle of October is using your words."
"This usually works with most Alphas okay!"
"Sasha isn't most Alphas."
"Tell me about it." Matthew grouses before he peeks over to Sam, looking up from beneath his eyelashes—the exact way he knows both endears him to Sam but also absolutely miffs him all the same, "Worked on you, didn't it?"
"Oh, is that what we're doing right now? We're calling getting a lapful of a preening O in preheat in the middle of a roadie a normal way to go about these things."
"It worked didn't it?" Matthew reiterates.
"It would work better if you use—"
"Okay! Alright!! I get it!!!" He does not.
like benny here is unfortunately an active listening participant in the going ons of the fuckery if not because hes involved by proxy because of maffhew because who else will hold his hair back as he calls him a dumb bitch you know
#ask#i dont think we nearly take enough advantage of maffhew going to a catholic prepatory school#my friend who went to catholic schooling his whole life until highschool (where we met) dropped the bombshell of the door thing on me#to which i went you have to be fucking with me that cant be real and then i was like well i guess its good we're both boys then-#and then he goes oh my mom knows im queer the rule applies to boys too#and i just nervously looked over to the door knob like well uh maybe we should open the door? i dont want your mom to be mad-#and he was like oh shes convinced we've been fucking since we met so this is allowed youre the only boy she lets do this (the door thing)#a couple of years later when he moved out i found out friends weren't allowed over if he was alone in the house but i was the only exceptio#and i felt like the equivalent of a roving tomcat who keeps wandering into the gardens and got the neighbours cat daisy pregnant#i dont think i could ever look that woman in the eye after all that#this is all to say catholic schooling does things to you man#anyways i do have to reiterate every kitty is fucking each other on a normal basis and in an abo au it gets even worse#making our whorehouse a whorehome#ive always said this but flirting with a virgo is like flirting with a brickwall#actually thatd be an insult to the brickwall because at least the brickwall would give you something to work with#the humble virgo looks you in the eyes before they crush your ego with a single word and youre like thank you mistress may i have another#i feel for maffhew i really do#theres just so many funny ways this just goes terribly wrong because both maffhew and sasha are inherently messy people#matthew and sasha on a team outing sat next to each other in a booth and matthew gets a little tipsy and starts rubbing his cheek#on sashas shoulder and sasha is just looking over to benny like please. help. and benny just snorts and blatantly ignores#him as he continues to sip on his beer and sasha just turns to ekky and silently pleads with his eyes. PLEASE. HELP.#ekky huffs and looks away very much not thrilled about being involved in any form whatsoever and hes not gonna change his mind about this#*5 minutes later* and ekky finds himself switching spots with sasha with a cuddly maffhew on his arm and he's a little disgruntled about it#but its very hard to stay upset when maffhew keeps mumbling about how nice he smells and keeps trying to scent him#all over like he has any right to lay a claim when hes been in the pack for such a short time#and yeah okay maybe he preens a little bit at the compliment like just a little#and maybe he does like being treated like a glorified scratching post but matthew doesnt need to know that (matthew knows that)#well anyways
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randomnameless · 6 months ago
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Genuine question, not trying to start a fight, why do you get so upset about gods and churches being presented in a negative light in fictional works?
No pbs!
I guess it's a mix of being too common, too forced and having, in general, the cast use common tropish arguments to fight /defeat them.
I rant a lot about this game, but take TS where we have three sort of factions opposing each other, and each are supposed to suck. Who is the faction who never receives any "positive traits" or "pet the dog" moment?
The game force fed us a scene where an Aesfroti soldier - when Aesfrost is depicted as a highly militarised nation with a cult of personality towards their current ruler, that invaded the protag's home and slaughtered several civilians and NPCs in the process - say goodbye to his wife and kids before going to "war" to defend his land against, well, the protags who are invading it to kill their warmongering leader.
As force-fed as this scene was, it, I believe at least, tried to tell us that even the Aesfrosti who pillaged villages and killed their inhabitants are humans, and care about their loved ones, sure it's corny, but it's all about not deshumanising any party.
When we attack Hyzante? Niet, zilch, nothing. No similar scene where random soldiers, or NPCs, worry about what is going on and if they're going to die when their wall has been breached. They just, don't exist in this context.
I think the cherry on the cake is the Golden Route scene, where, apparently, nationalists Aesfrosti decide to turn back against their ultra charismatic leader because, uh, he "lied" when he declared the war and used a false pretense, so the soldiers and people who were butchering babies and invading a city where people were preparing a marriage apparently now have morals and rebel.
There's no similar scene for Hyzante when the cast reveals that the teachings of their Goddess were made up and salt wasn't exclusively given to them by divine intervention, because rock salt exists everywhere. Sure it would be a bit weird and forced that people thinking they're chosen ones and looking down on everyone else suddenly, hm, don't break down when their entire system of belief is shattered, but hey, if the Aesfrostian Gregor can have morals after washing his hands of all this Glenbrookian blood, why shouldn't religious npc #55 not make the same heel face turn?
And then, we have the slavery/human experimentation plot - in general, when TS tries to give nuance, they more or less explain/justify why something that "sucks" is done, it's basically Silvio's character.
Aesfrost' Gustadolph manages to push his "freedom" mentality because his land is a harsh place where people are desperate to survive, salt smuggling is reprehensible, but it's the only way to give some to the ones who cannot afford it. Of course is everyone is free, no one is because, as Gustadolph puts it, they're basically free to die for his ambitions.
Hyzante? Follows a racist creed where Rozellians have to pay for some great sin, and are slaved away in a lake to recover salt until they die. It's, later, justified by Hyzante wanting to keep its salt monopoly else they don't have anything, and wanting to curb down the Rozelle people because they know about the exitence of rock salt (and I guess getting free workers to harvest salt from the lake + having state enemies make his own population docile/not willing to rebel ?).
And then, we have the human experimentations, that are just done for, uhh, Idore's lol. When Hyzante is known for its "advanced medicine" and we could have had the usual dilemna of, idk, having those humans experimentations used to develop this medicine that is reknown in the world (idk, sacrificing a Rozellian to save someone else's life?) - it's not the angle the devs picked. Rozellians are sacrificed to power up an idol, Idore wants to control the world through his idol and soft power (compared to Gustadolph's hard power) and manipulates his people (just like Gustadolph) to do so.
The two are very similar, but who is the final boss? Complete with a transformation in an eldritch monster? The war-mongering imperialist or the jaded old man who is leading de facto a religion?
Hopefully there's the entire "human experimentations for no other purpose than the lols" to settle them apart.
---
I recently watched Dune, and even if I have some issues with the adaptation, the Bene Gesserit isn't portrayed as "comically" evil-er than the Harkonen Empire, I reckon the comparison isn't adequate, because Dune is multi book series when I'm mostly talking about video games.
Symphonia's church of Martel is a font for the Big Bad (tm) to put in motion his nefarious plans, and yet, through the game, we see how random clergymen use their, uh, religious buildings to help people around. Ultimately Martel herself is reincarnated through plot device and tells the big bad to stop being an ass and the story is less about "church and gods evil" but "big bad distorts Martel/church's teachings and role for his plans because he has a tragic backstory"
(but then Symphonia ends with the biggest whitewashing from every Tales I've played for its big bad so I'll stop talking about it because otherwise I'm going to be salty).
Abyss' church is more or less the same thing - the Church is supposed to help people deal with the fact their verse has "predestination stones" where the future is already written, and in the course of the game, we see how it has several factions and one opposes the group (who has the pope as a NPC!) - but it's not a story about "gods bad church BaD".
I remember playing Suikoden Tierkreis a long time ago, and while the game seemed to go through familiar "church bad gods bad" route and we end with defeating a god-like entity... I pretty much loved the twist that, in a game that relied on alternate dimensions/universe, the god-like entity was actually the protag if he made different choices!
In those games, if you fight a religious body and someone pretending to be a God or what not - it's not because people fight against an eldritch creature who wants world domination and to erase puny insects, or is the reason why everything goes wrong, but because, at the end, the conflict/fight is ultimately caused by someone, generally a human or at least a non "god like" entity, wanting to destroy the world.
I don't remember if FE was my first JRPG series or not, but I always liked the idea that if the world is doomed in those games and the heroes must prevent said doom, it's not because a god-like being wants to destroy the world, but because people, humans/randoms are the most shitty ones out there.
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As for the "tropes" often used to deride fictional churchs and religious people, well, I will again point to TS - which did a splendid job in the Benedict Route where you smash Hyzante after allying with Aesfrost.
There's one battle where out protags diss Hyzantese because they worship a goddess and have no free will, listening to Her teachings and Her says (the traditional "religious people have no free will and listen to their churches who tell them how to think!") - which is immediately countered by one of those Hyzantese characters asking Serenor if he's not the same, but instead of blindly listening to a Goddess, blindly follows Benedict. And it ends with the final chapter title referencing automatons/puppets : who is that title talking about ? The fake "idol" Idore created, or the fake "king" Benedict created?
Anyways, the usual "religions people have no free will because their church/religion tells them how to think" trope reeks of r/atheism and the double standard - bar in this route of TS, but I guess, in TS itself in the Roland route! - is never called out, blindly following a charismatic leader is okay, as long as charismatic leader isn't religious?
Regardless of my IRL thoughts about religion, usually those tropes are presented as a "gotcha!" when they are... not at all, but the games/books leave it at that and we're supposed to roll with it.
I'd say it's lazy writing or, as we saw in Naruto, a quick way to end a story without having to dwelve in characters and their motivations : "you're a god/alien/other being and you're bad, so let us do what we want!" - end of the story.
Hopefully some fillers and to an extent, Boruto gave her more meat bar being the 11 hour villain we had to defeat quick and who manipulated the previous sad'n'lonely antagonists - but it still felt rich from Naruto, known for his famous "talk no jutsu" and trying to understand people he's fighting against, to drop the ball with Kaguya, calling her pure malice and ending with some "let us live the way we want" to wrap up the plot so he can wrestle with his boyfriend later on.
In the end, we often end up with "religion bad bcs the big bad manipulates people through it", as if those mangas/animes/vg never have other examples of charismatic people not using religion to manipulate their randoms/people or "gods bad they should let humans do what they want" when we've read/seen/played through various, uh, really fucked-up shit humans did - but on their own! and ultimately, but it's more in fandom spaces, with have Projection 101.
TLDR : church/religion/gods are too often used in those works as the ultimate scapegoat to either wrap up a story in a rushed ending or to pretend to have "nuance" but still have a common enemy where all the "nuanced" characters can grow/be whitewashed and side together against that "common enemy".
Just like in all things I guess, I prefer when something isn't painted as purely negative and all of the positive traits are erased because there is a need for a perfect scapegoat - sure, bring out too much "nuance" and writing/designing a game/manga/anime becomes harder because there's no "clear cut" antagonist, and yet, the one who always gets fucked in this scenario is the religious/church side.
Want a generic stock villain who will destroy the world so the heroes have to fight against them? Just create a "religion" in your setting, and have the big bad either hell bent on resurrecting Chtullu to destroy the world because Chtullu BaD, or have them be the most corrupt piece of shit who manipulate everything in the shadows, so the rest of the world, even the ones who slaughter others bcs they feel like they must start a war, can be whitewashed at the end.
I mean, there's a saying about diverting attention from a fire by starting a bigger one near, or a trope of "aliens made them do it" : who cares if Madara started a continental war and targeted a village full of random civilians he swore to protect because he lost the elections? Did y'know he was manipulated by a woman, I mean, an eldritch thing created by a woman, regarded as a God, who ultimately wanted to get out of her fridge to kill everyone?
Roland must get over his hatred for Aesfrost for barging in his kindgom and killing hundred of his people while they were preparing for a wedding, because hey, Idore is evil and plans on ruling the world through his sham religion!
I'll forever be salty at TS for not giving Kamsell the occasion to rise against Idore, or not even have minor NPCs get the same treatment as Sycras suddenly going all "u lied to me gustadolph so i won't listen to u anymore + sad goodbyes to my wife'n'kids".
Extremism of all kinds can lead to wars/tragedy/fucked up shit - Sure I don't want to get my History lessons in video game medium when I play lol, but what I really don't like is how it feels like depicting "they're extremists because they're religious" feels like the default/easy answer : want a bunch of brainwashed people the heroes must fight against and can't talk no justu their way out of this fight/will fight without looking too BaD? Depict those people as "misguided" members of a corrupt church/believers of a religion, no one will givea fig. If they are instead supporters of a charismatic leader who throws them through the meatgrinder to further their goals? Well, there's no automatic loyalty so either you have to show/depict it on screen, else it can be challenged at key points to demonstrate how those people - who follow the charismatic leader - aren't completely "mindlessly listening to their leader" or how their leader "isn't that bad after all".
#idk if it makes sense anon#replies#anon#i'm not tackling the fandom projected takes anon this is another can of worms#I'm not immune to it far from that#Having grown up in a post 2000s world with some people lit being asked how dare they be religious and all#'religion is the only reason why people do those horrible things' dude are you serious? Did you open a book recently?#TS was really mind boggling about the duality between 'regular' imperialism and 'religious' one#and how one faction got way more care than the other to make a clear cut villain#Also blaming everything on Gods/evil cults etc etc imo is often used to remove agency from people X or Y who start shit#That's why I really liked Fe Jugdral#sure we have nutjobs going to say everything BaD happens because of Loptyr#But DiMaggio seducing Aidean? Danan turning Isaach in a giant brothel? Slavery in the Thracian peninsula?#Dragons in this opus are sitting on the sidelines and only itnervening when one of them starts shit#but otherwise? Humans are allowed to be shitty without blaming 'Gods' for behaving like they did#and they receive their due#From the Tales I've played they mostly avoid this general religion BaD#even if iirc it's one of the plot points in Berseria? who would have guessed lol#I guess I'd say I'm not seriously upset whenever a game/manga ends up with 'akshually the religious faction was the big BaD'#it's just the same canned ravioli again and again#but whenever games/manga/anime try to give some grey morality to antagonists#the ones who always are wrecked are the religious/god-like entities#Is there any room for nuance when one faction has no other reason for doing the things they do bar 'for the lols/bcs i was told to?'#fandom woes
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suffarustuffaru · 1 year ago
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arc 8 ottosuba and mutually assured destruction (devotion)
basically i wanna talk about this again but more Specifically bc they are gonna fuck each other over so fucking bad. like this is the most disastrous combo of all time. you got natsuki subaru who has rbd AND a suicide pill in his fucking mouth that he can use at any time AND he will die as many times as it takes to save Anyone he cares about. and then you pair him with otto suwen, aka a devoted little freak whos willing to let entire countries and millions of people, including people subaru cares about, die to save subaru. and otto has died for subaru twice now and will gladly do so again on top of that. they are the absolute worst combo of all time bc natsuki "ill save you no matter how many times i die" subaru and otto "i would let anyone and anything die to save you" suwen are inevitably going to come into conflict. otto wont let subaru die at any cost but subaru having rbd means that hes gonna win no matter what. hes gonna get what he wants. hes gonna die and theres nothing otto can do to stop it. and even if otto does stop subaru, its a lose lose bc either subaru dies and uses the info he got to beat otto next time, or subaru and otto end up having more fights with each other anyway, or otto does end up stopping subaru in some way (example: otto wanting louis to die) and subaru gets pissed at him over it, or all the otto permadeath flags end up being real and otto dies permanently and subarus gonna be destroyed and i bet ottos still gonna be like "i told you we shouldve left vollachia when we had the chance" on his literal deathbed bc him permadying proves his literal point this whole arc. and subaru can save otto all he wants but if otto ever figures out this hurts subaru in any way ottos never going to get over it. hes gonna be upset and pissed forever. there is no winning with these two. their devotion is violent and theyve literally found their match in each other. bc their devotion strips the other person of their own free will and choice in the manner bc they keep saying "no. i have to save you no matter what, even if you get upset at what im doing and even if i do all of this behind your back without ever telling you." and if they keep being stubborn theyre just gonna end up dragging each other down - which is the exact opposite of their goals to save each other. they are likely going to kill each other by the end of this, metaphorically or not. and its going to be because of love. do you understand. how do you save someone who wants to save you first. how do you save someone whos devoted themselves to you, body and soul, in the most violent way possible.
also if otto manages to read the tome once its restored... he's gonna figure out rbd.
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annabelle--cane · 2 days ago
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saw a comment on a livejournal bh meta post from 2013 that sent me on an internal hero's journey about sexual misconduct and gendered power in being human
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