#unless you doing something different/off meta

[yung-goos]

when the evil murdering blacksmith hits you with hammers and stabs you with her many knives and all you have to fend her off with is your trusty frying pan, your emotional support pet made of fire, and and insatiable hunger for spicy food, becoming an unkillable god in the process

[savanir]

DP x DC ficlet

is it even a ficlet anymore, this thing has gotten incredibly out of hand...

So a while back I saw this

and I picked the Green Lantern one and then just kinda wrote a full fic so...

It had been a good party, official yes but despite that still festive enough and with just a bittersweet hint. as all good meaningful parties should be like, unless you’re looking to get absolutely shitfaced.

But hey Rowan deserved a proper sendoff for making it to this point and not dying in the process. Hal is going to miss the old pilot though.

"Hal, I got something for you, before I forget"

"Hm, what is it"

The old man puts a small intricate glass model of a f16 fighter in his hand.

"Back when I started I was given this for good luck and protection"

Rowan presses it down firmly and stands there all official like "may it grant you both as it did for me"

They both stand there for a second before laughing.

“Feel free to shelf the whole luck thing, what’s really important is skill and experience. Still, knowing you, you can definitely use the protection ”

Hal grins, "Thanks, I'll keep close"

"You better, the sentimental value is sky high" Rowan slaps his shoulder with another laugh.

Good lord what a dork.

The old retiring pilot wasn't paying attention, too caught up in everything else but Hal saw the faint and brief green hue coming from his hand.

In a panic he slammed his other hand over top. Completely missing the quietly whispered "protect"

Too busy cussing out his ring in his head, he swears that thing is trying to out him on purpose sometimes.

This time it wasn't the ring though, so it's a good thing it's an inanimate object and can't be upset at how wrong Hal is being right now.

"Everything alright?"

"Yeah! Let's get back to the others"

The evening ends uneventfully.

---

It's really only until quite a bit later that things start to happen.

"Green lantern" its batman's business voice.

Both Hal and John look up.

"Jordan" ah shit.

"I'll catch you up later" and he leaves Hal behind, traitor.

"What's up spooky"

"You need to update your file, it is missing critical information, and on that note I wasn’t aware that the lantern suits grant you intangibility now"

"I... what..? It doesn't? What are you talking about spooks"

"Hrn" Batman pulls up a screen and shows him footage of the latest fight, in it you can clearly see something was supposed to hit Hal but went right through him "You're telling me you didn't know or notice this?"

Hal just looks kinda sick. That would have been a bad hit and he just straight up didn't even notice.

Batman just kind of silently looks at him and he must have come to some conclusion because the next thing Hal knows this comes out of his mouth.

"I've already ran your blood through the lab, it's not a sudden emergence of a meta gene so it's either from the lantern corps or you've otherwise externally been affected by something that's causing this"

Hal closes his eyes and internally counts to ten, it doesn't help.

Batman takes his silence to mean he can keep talking. The man is on an unusual roll. Hal would have been ecstatic if he didn't hate the topic quite so much.

"It would have been best if it had something to do with your ring however you seem to be completely unaware and I've also noted that the green of your ring and the green glow that comes with the density shifting are different"

He has examples with corresponding color codes, Hal is so tired.

“let's set a time frame…” Batman pulls up some documents and graph on the screen “seeing as you are unaware of this development I will set the starting point of this potential change as of now to right after the last time you have been known to be hit in a fight and before the first known instance of you being able to density shift, that leaves us with a full month.”

Hal really, really does not want to be here anymore.

“In this month you have not gone off planet so whatever caused this is on Earth” Batman pauses for a moment, “has anything significant happened during that time that springs to mind now?”

“no, nothing significant has happened during that time, frankly it’s been a very pleasant uneventful four weeks in which I finally managed to catch a break and it figures something crazy has apparently happened anyway”

Hal rubs his face with both hands, “but right now I couldn’t tell you what, anyway, does this have to be a bad thing? I for one am very glad that hit didn’t actually land”

“So far only Superman has had the privilege of having sudden emergence of new powers work out for him” Batman huffs, “it would be best to monitor this carefully, if anything springs to mind do not hesitate to inform me, the sooner this is figured out the better”

“awww you do care” Hal is using humor cope, sadly it’s Batman, so it’s not very effective.

“Jordan” now Batman sounds tired, he’s not the one with random surprise density shifting, Hal understand that Spooky’s crippling chronic paranoia must be exhausting but right now he’s the one freaking out considering this is apparently not a meta gene related development, it would have been so much easier if it was, oh and about that, just how and when did Batman get his blood exactly? he would like to know now.

---

sadly he does not get to know now. or anytime soon (or ever). it’s chaos right after, because of course it is.

knocked out of the sky and lying amongst the rubble, if their enemy spots him he’s in bigger shit than he already is, but he can’t fucking move and the next thing he knows he’s invisible.

and there is just nothing enjoyable about it.

Barry doesn’t know that though, “that was something else, just one moment and schwup and you were just gone, some sort of green lantern light bending? he looked right through you, thank god he did too” 

shit shit, “no that was..." it was like he just ceased to exist, movies and books and whatever other media always depicts it as such a cool thing but frankly it was terrifying. And he would prefer things that are terrifying not to happen to him, for obvious reasons, “honestly actually it’s complicated, stealth tech” Grade A bullshit.

“well it’s awesome”

“it was useful just now but not really my style you know” 

Barry slings his arm over Hal’s shoulder and gives him a one armed hug, “everything worked out” Hal can feel some tension flow out of his friend, “well! better get busy cleaning this mess up” and with a blink he’s gone.

Hal does not want to talk about this with Batman, but knowing him, he probably already knows anyway, it would be less of a headache to go to him than have him go to Hal. 

Hal wants to enjoy whatever this is, he really does, but he doesn’t know what caused this, he doesn’t know what triggers the new abilities or whatever they are, he doesn’t know what effects this shit is going to have in the future, he just doesn’t know anything, normally he doesn’t mind not knowing some things, he’s fine leaving the knowing to the people better suited for the more complicated knowing, but he would very much like to know more about this please.

---

Then they face off against an enemy and in the process Hal drains his ring completely and the next hit is going to be bad, so what will happen? Will he somehow go intangible again? Turn invisible and use the confusion to evade and attack?

No

Apparently this time he just gets a glowing green dome shield. Something very normal for him to have and use, if only it came out of his ring that is.

Nobody notices that something is wrong, nobody besides Batman that is.

"That's three new abilities that only appear during life threatening situations"

Hal has actually seriously gone over that month by now, but nothing, no answers. He's physically fine, mentally a little damaged but nothing new there, they all are. Every test he begrudgingly went through answered nothing. He was fine. Whatever was going on actually had nothing to do with him.

And at the same time it had everything to do with him because this is only happening to him.

As usual (by now) he takes out his little glass fighter jet and runs his thumb over the wings. It is soothing strangely enough. Like a stim toy.

"The last thing to try is a thorough examination by someone from the justice league dark"

Hal groans, magic, ok then, "Alright let's get this over with. Who knows maybe I'm just haunted"

It turns out he’s not haunted, this is a good thing... supposedly, Well let’s just say that Hal would have not minded being haunted or something if that meant it could be fixed, or just explained.

It doesn’t really need to be fixed, whatever this is has been very helpful after all, but he would do basically anything for an explanation right about now.

“you are not haunted or otherwise magically compromised, but I do sense faint traces of energy from the infinite realms” Zatanna is a godsent, finally something to work with.

“from the who whats?” Hal is worried, the occult field is definitely not his area of expertise. He's a space cop, not a space demonhunter… oh that would be pretty cool though, with like a hood and twin cyber crossbows, maybe he should incorporate that somehow.

“the infinite realms… have you recently been in touch with any death related realities?”

Well there was that time when he got booted to the death universe and he died and then he was a black lantern but he got better, that’s all very much very behind him.

She better not be about to tell him that stuff still has lingering consequences.

oh god dammit that’s exactly what is going on isn’t it?

"How recently?"

"In the past week?"

"Oh, no" Hal would have known if that was the case, death stuff tends to be hard to ignore.

Zatanna frowns, that's probably not a good sign.

"But you said I'm not compromised right?" Right now what Hal wants to know the most is if this is changing him. Cause it tends to be bad for him when that's the case.

"No this is just lingering traces of something or someone else using their powers near you"

???!!??!?

"What are the infinite realms?" oh hey there Batman, was wondering when you would show up again.

"It's the afterlife, or... more like a collection of all afterlives. The infinite realms is very literal in their naming. It is home to powerful dead entities. As a general rule magic users are discouraged from interacting with it.

"Hrn"

"What did you say happened to you so far Hal?"

"Uhm, density shifting, invisibility and then a green dome-like shield, a lot like my own energy constructs"

"that sounds like pretty standard stuff for a realms being"

"Soooo what, did one leave the afterlife and decide to follow me around or something?"

"I cannot conclusively say, I can only say that you've been close to one using its abilities"

Batman folds his arms over his chest, "We shouldn’t form theories on these findings alone, Zatanna are these realm beings dangerous?"

"Hard to say, they come in all manner of forms, some small and harmless and others on the level of world destroying gods."

Great great great, awesome, well it’s probably safe to say that whatever decided to stick around Hal isn’t small and harmless, cause small and harmless doesn’t sound strong enough to casually turn him intangible or invisible… he could be wrong though.

“I do advise caution, beings from the infinite realms also have the ability to possess someone, they call it overshadowing”

Batman’s lips thin and Hal tenses up, mind control of any kind is always awful.

“I’ll place a ward on you, as a precaution” energy starts to gather in her hands.

Batman moves for the door, “we might need to look into a way to force this being to reveal itself, it would be best if we could convince it to return to their realm”

“Well I mean-” Hal starts, “like I get that, but they have been a great help so far” 

“they are a security risk”

“I’m just saying, I am grateful that they kept me from being confined to the medical wing for who even knows how long, who knows they might just be shy, wouldn’t it be better to convince them to become our ally, like Deadman. instead of telling them to leave. just cause we don’t understand how they work yet doesn’t mean they are bad and should be booted out of our reality”

Batman narrows his eyes at Hal and turns to Zatanna who is finished with placing the ward on Hal, “Zatanna please send me all you have on the infinite realms, I will do my own research” and with that he sweeps out of the room, very dramatic.

“Ass” Hal whispers under his breath.

“He’s worried”

“well he’s being a dick about it, as usual” Hal’s fingers find his little plane once again “... hey do you think they could communicate through one of those oejah boards?”

Zatanna snorts, “it’s Ouija- and please don’t”

---

No information from the JLD has been useful so far in coaxing the realms being to reveal themselves and for the most part things just go on as usual.

“Whoever they are, they followed me when I went off planet and it might just be my imagination but I had a feeling that their stuff was a lot more… potent? out there? I don’t know it was kinda strange, it just felt stronger”

“but they didn’t reveal themselves to you?”

“nope, they must know that I know now too, so they have decided to just… go on as they always have I guess”

“hrn” Batman is leafing through files, because of this whole mess he’s uncovered hidden government organizations targeting occult entities as well as inhumane laws that stand directly opposed to the meta protection acts.

Why is he working with paper regarding this matter? Well it turns out there is a infinite realms being that can possess electronica and it was only because of the protections the JLD had put in place on the Watchtower that the entity didn’t overtake it in its entirety.

Watching Constantine freak out had been mildly entertaining but Zatanna had once again reminded Batman to be very careful, Batman had begrudgingly admitted he had made a slight misstep while digging for answers… in his head, not out loud, god forbid.

“this whole thing is turning out a lot bigger than we thought huh, good thing we are dealing with it now” Hal stretches his arms above his head, “anyway I am going to go grab something to eat”

“the rapport-” Batman doesn’t bother looking at him.

“yeah yeah” Hal doesn’t either while walking out of the room, dismissively flicking his hand, “don’t worry about it spooky”

Hal takes his little plane out on the way to the cafeteria and fiddles with it in his hand, once there he puts it on the table next to Barry before getting himself something to eat.

They catch up, Hal complains (bitches) about Batman, others come and go, Zatanna quickly checks up on the ward she placed which makes Barry raise an eyebrow at Hal, “Ghost protection”

“... no such thing”

Zatanna glares.

Hal can see them both gearing up to start the magic is just science we haven’t fully scienced out yet argument again, “alright! I’m full” he stands up, “if you need me I’ll be writing that rapport, later” and gets the hell out of there.

It’s when he has just reached his preferred spot to work on the boring paperwork stuff when the alarms go off throughout what he can only imagine must probably be the entire Watchtower.

It seems like something triggered all of the JLD’s defenses in one go.

Impressive, but also very worrying.

The rapport is going to have to wait.

People are gathering in the meeting room and Batman is already taking the lead, “status”

“as of a couple minutes ago there was a build up of as of yet unknown energy which then burst in the cafeteria knocking out Flash” Martian Manhunter says, “Zatanna says we are most likely dealing with another being from the infinite realms”

Superman groans, this means he’s out.

It’s a good thing they now have defenses against overshadowing though. Being effectively trapped in a space station (because currently the thing is on lockdown) where literally anyone could suddenly actually be the enemy is the kind of situation a whole slew of horror movies like to be about.

“We will need to be extremely careful while finding and then dealing with this entity”

It has certainly been quite some time since the Watchtower got directly hit like this.

Hal pulls out his little plane.

or, he would, if he still had it.

thoroughly distracted now he suddenly realizes it’s no longer on his person.

Spooky is probably not going to like it if during the infinite realms attacker hunt he takes the opportunity to look around for his missing little fighter jet.

well what he doesn’t know won’t harm him.

His plan of looking for the plane while looking for the ghost is working out well enough.

In fact it is working out so good that he finds both at the same time.

At that point Hal had started wondering if maybe Barry had picked it up for him at the cafeteria before the attack happened and that the little thing was now in the medical wing with him. 

That turned out to clearly not be the case once he found the tiny thing glowing green and floating in the middle of the hallway.

“alright ghosty, that’s really important to me and I would like it back undamaged”

the tiny plane turned to now point directly at him, hmm, yeah that's not creepy at all.

 “... please don’t launch yourself at me” he foolishly says which of course means that’s exactly what it does next.

He uses his ring to construct a net with a pillow inside to catch the tiny jet, completely forgetting that it’s overshadowed and can thus easily just go intangible and right through his creations.

Instead it hits him square in the chest, rather painfully he might add and then just stops glowing and drops, making Hal scramble to not have it fall and shatter in a million tiny pieces on the ground.

immediately all the sensors stop detecting the presence of a realms being and the alarms die down.

Whatever was in the Watchtower has left the building.

or…

Hal looks down at the tiny plane in his hands, his talisman of protection and has a sinking feeling in his gut.

“Hey there little guy, might want to explain yourself?” he says to the tiny jet.

It vibrates in his hands.

“... yeah I figured, shit”

---

“I say just smash the bloody thing and be done with it, preferably that takes care of it once and for all” Constantine glares down at the tiny jet.

Hal is almost halfway over the table to shield the little thing, covering it from Constantine’s sight with his hand, “don’t you dare” he growls.

“it would be best for everyone involved, for all we known you could have gone full liminal what with how long you’ve been carrying the blasted thing around”

Zatanna is going over the little thing with her own magic, “it’s trapped”

“In that case just straight up trying to murder it would be the worst thing to do” Hal glares at Constantine some more. Who clearly doesn’t give a shit, figures, all stressed out about dealing with things from the infinite realms but whenever he feels he has the upper hand he’s more than happy to go full nuclear.

“it would be best if we had a way of figuring out their intentions” Batman looks down at the tiny jet impassively.

“Well, another reason to just carefully release this creature instead” Hal responds.

Zatanna’s magic fades away, “I would say that the fact it’s been protecting Hal for as long as he has it is a positive sign”

“hrn, but now it has gone and knocked Flash out, so what does that say” Batman huffs, “it’s too risky”

“Constantine and I will set up everything we can so it won’t be able to escape or try anything dangerous” Zatanna stops looking at Batman and turns back to the tiny plane, “if it turns out to be malicious we could simply banish it back to the realms, killing it would be rather stupid, we do not know what kind of connections it might have within the realms, we might accidentally anger something far worse with such a rash act”

Constantine groans but accepts Zatanna’s reasoning, Batman nods as well.

It’s only then that Hal moves out of the way.

Any plans of attack or banishment fly right out of the window once the two magic users are done and a young boy manifests from the tiny fighter jet.

Hal pushes Constantine aside to get to the boy’s side.

“Jordan, are you insane! Get back here!” 

“Hey, kid, can you hear me? please open your eyes, slowly, take your time” 

Batman has also moved forward much to Constantine’s frustration. Don't these two morons get that their protections won’t do shit if you just casually stroll into the circle?

Batman is mostly concerned in being able to step in should the boy prove to be a hostile entity anyway, but at the same time… well, that’s a child.

The boy kind of dazedly opens his eyes, looks at Hal and then seems to become aware of his own arms and hands, after opening and closing those a couple times he looks back at Hal and lets out a breath that can only be described as relieved and promptly passes out into him.

Well, Hal figures that settles it then. He doesn’t know shit about looking after a kid, and definitely not one who is probably quite dead, but this one is his, back off Batman.

they all startle rather violently when rings of blinding white light pass over the boy and suddenly the kid in Hal’s arms is a bit warmer and seems to have a sluggish pulse and also his clothes are different and his hair is now black and-

Hal is up and moving towards the medical wing before his mind catches back up with him. He can hear Batman behind him, it seems like Constantine and Zatanna aren’t moving after him as fast.

Well anyway his life is already so goddamn weird, this might as well happen.

[blighted-lights]

I want to know your thoughts on an opinion I have. I really hated part of that scene where Megatron and Ravage are talking and Megatron is like, you've seen the worst of the Decepticons. Want to join me? And I really hate this because shouldn't Ravage, as this ultra-loyal Megatron follower and skilled operative, BE and EMBODY the worst of the Decepticons, along with Megatron himself? Was she not there, totally endorsing Megatron back when Megatron was personally training the DJD to be the way they are, something he literally mentioned having done like, one issue before extending this offer?

hiii nonnie!!! thank you so much for the ask!

and i agree, the dialogue in that scene does kind of fit strangely, especially with the assumption that ravage has been close to high command and would theoretically already have seen much of the "worst" parts of the decepticon cause- whether that be the djd themselves, the camps like grindcore, the k-class, the six phasers, the abuse megatron dolls out to the other decepticons, or the genocides of billions of organics. the implication that this is suddenly ravage's first time witnessing the "dark parts" of the decepticon cause IS jarring, especially considering that ravage seems to be completely oblivious to the djd before this arc. to the point where ravage can't even identity the djd's scent on the split lost light, or even recognize the djd's handiwork.

when faced with the bodies left behind on the split lost light, THIS is ravage's reaction:

she's got no idea who did this! none!

as for ravage's opinions on the formation of the djd, i'm kind of split on this. we have zero information on who was involved in the djd's training, who supported it, ect. we have zero proof that ravage was supportive of the djd or even how much she actually knows about them or what they do, and given her reaction above and willingness to distance herself from the rest of the decepticons after witnessing it, i'd argue that she wasn't endorsing him. ravage isn't unaware of the fact that megatron has fucked up- we see her admit this in their first scene together.

ravage calls him a tyrant outright, references what she generously refers to as his "wobbles". she has a very idolized view of him, but it doesn't prevent her from being able to see that he has fucked up. she's just willing to look past his fuck-ups in favor of the idolized version of him she has in her head.

and it is somewhat difficult to pinpoint when this undying loyalty to megatron even started meta-wise, as ravage in prior comics shows no special interest or loyalty to megatron whatsoever. before mtmte, it's always been soundwave she looked to- not megatron. and the megatron ravage endorsed would be a pre-war/early megatron, anyways- long before the formation of the djd. given her reaction to the djd, i VERY much doubt she was in any way supportive of its formation or its practices. but what could she do about it? ravage doesn't have as much agency in comparison to those like soundwave and starscream. none of the cassettes do. though that is a whole different post worth of meta.

BUT! you're fully right. ravage isn't exempt from taking part in what the decepticons have done. i think her role is far more limited than the other big names we know, but it's not like she was kicking her feet off to the sidelines, lol. just because the people around her did much worse doesn't negate the fact that she was just as guilty in the things she was a part of.

this kind of got away from me, but yeah! i agree that the wording in that scene was somewhat odd and this shouldn't of been the first time ravage was faced with the dark parts of the decepticons. UNLESS. these "darker parts" were, for some reason, intentionally kept hidden from ravage in fear that she would leave the decepticons if she knew, which is what we see her do in mtmte. but that feels really unlikely. i really don't think ravage was some big supporter of the djd either, nor would she endorse it or megatron while creating it, but there IS a fair bit of hand-waving ravage does when it comes to what megatron and the decepticons have done in the past. though... that's kinda on-par for mtmte lmao

[disasterbijamietartt]

Maybe I’m delusional and drank too much wine, but this is why Roy Kent being a closeted queer man explains EVERYTHING

While writing my meta piece about Jamie x Keeley I spent a lot of time thinking “What about Roy?”, since there are no convincing love interests for him aside from Keeley.

And, well, Jamie.

And for the first time I evaluated this as something that really could happen, since now there is the legit possibility that they make homophobia in professional football the prevalent theme in this season and having multiple queer storylines would help to illustrate different point of views and they could explore this with a Roy x Jamie romance plot.

And then I looked at Roy and … basically everything fell into place.

Why he represses his emotions, why he is so so angry, why he is so full with insecurities and struggles with his self-worth, why he is unable to show (physical or emotional) affection to a man without somehow having to taint it with an unnecessarily violent outbreak – the only notable exception being the Hug™️ in “Man City”. Something that hasn’t been addressed by anyone since then, which was a choice I always considered very odd, but postponing Roy’s character development to season 3 makes actually lot’s of sense, if Roy’s struggles are rooted in internalised homophobia. And if being queer in professional sports is the theme of season 3 like mental health was the theme of season 2.

Still makes his angry, violent outbursts really jarring and he has to show accountability, but if the pain he inflicted on others is related to the trauma of being forced to be in the closet for 25 odd years, that would be so heartbreaking. And it would fit into the theme of the show that actually good people like Rebecca or Jamie – and Nate once he gets his redemption – do unforgivable things and inflict pain on people who do not deserve it as a trauma response. Sure, it could be some other trauma – but this explanation would fit so well into this seasons theme, it just makes SO MUCH SENSE to me.

Also, Trent’s critique explains some of Roy’s insecurities, but he already was full of anger at seventeen, so the root of his anger has to be something different – and growing up queer in a hella homophobic surrounding since age ten and forced to stay in the closet unless he wants to throw away his dream career, if that is not a reason to be filled to the brim with anger, I don’t know what is.

And as far as I recall, the only people he actually physically attacks are Colin (the headbutt in 1x3) and Jamie. Then his beef with Trent.

In other words, we only ever see him being irrationally aggressive and violent towards queer coded or canonically queer men. Yes, he usually has reasons that are not related to (coded) sexuality – with the notable exception of “I have to headbutt Jamie before I hug him lest it seems gay!”

And the “ugly, ugly boy”-thing? Vanity is often used for queer coding. So Roy mocks something about Jamie that is queer coded.

This screams internalised homophobia.

But I hear the naysayer going “Aren’t you reaching a bit?”

Maybe, but let us take a look at some ways how Roy is queer coded that come to mind off the top of my head.

First of all: He canonically has a secret double life, where he is notably softer, hangs out with a bunch of elderly women who have no clue who Roy Kent, professional angry footballer, is, and does yoga with them, frequents gay bars, hangs out with drag queens and watches reality tv while sipping rosé, which is a sweet girly drink, like you know “vanilla vodka. such a child.” – in his “real life” Roy would never ever drink rosé or admit to anyone that he watched even a single second of “Lust Conquers All” by accident (Keeley definitely didn’t know, or she would have teased him with this).

Who else has a secret double life? Colin.

And while I hate to be “look, so many gay stereotypes!” … Look, so many gay stereotypes!

Also, both Julie Andrews and Madonna are gay icons? As are Stevie Nicks and Tina Turner

“The Sound of Music” (his favourite) is popular in gay culture and the nuns are implied to be lesbians?

He mouths along when Rebecca sings “Let it go”, with Elsa being queer coded and the song being a queer anthem?

And when I googled “A Wrinkle in Time queer” first thing I got was a paper by the Syracuse University titled “Unusual Children: Queerishness and Strange Growth in A Wrinkle in Time and The Giver”, which discusses the queerness of the main character. You know, the “Am I supposed to be the little girl”-girl?

This are all the pop culture references I could recall off the top of my head, there may be things that are not queer coded, but … one or two, that is a coincidence. Three or more, that is a pattern. You cannot convince me that the writer’s “accidentally” queer coded Roy so extensively if he is supposed to be straight.

(Dear god, the only thing about Ted Lasso that always disappointed me was the lack of explicit queer characters – like, I’d bet with you that the majority of non-queer viewers didn’t get Keeley’s “dip the toe back in the lady pool” line or Colin’s “oh like Grindr?” – and if they now go and make the third season queer as fuck? Bless them!

And just like the next level trolling by Phil and Brett if they were actually spoiling the big love story for years, while everyone thought they were just joking?)

EDIT: Just looked up Gina Gershon, who Roy said he dated once—guess what, according to Wikipedia she’s considered a gay icon 🙃

[actual-changeling]

Welcome to:

We need to talk about Michael

The first post can be found right here, and I do recommend reading it first because otherwise you might not know what exactly I am talking about. As previously announced, we will now have a look at Michael, Uriel, and Gabriel in season two because our Archangels might not be as loyal as the Metatron thinks.

Part 2: Common Ground

I will start with the Apocalypse #2 meeting and the trial, since chronologically it happens right before season two, and we need the conclusions I will come to for later.

The plan for the apocalypse itself is something I've already talked about in a different meta post and there's even more to discuss, but to not get too off-topic, we'll leave it at "earth gets destroyed, heaven and hell go to war" for this one.

I don't know about you, but for me the trial has always felt... off, in a way, and I couldn't put my finger on why exactly—now I have a theory: The entire conversation around Gabriel saying 'no' was orchestrated, not just by himself but by him and Michael.

Armageddon is prevented and Gabriel falls in love with Beelzebub, who is unfortunately the prince of hell and thus the Enemy tm in theory. Practically, heaven and hell work closely with each other, and which angel he knows has established direct contact with dukes of hell?

Michael.

So Gabriel goes to her and together they talk to Beez to come up with a plan, because Michael wants Gabriel out of heaven just as much as he wants to leave heaven. Michael wants his job.

The solution is surprisingly simple: Find a way to make Gabriel fall, who then gets to be princess of hell and Beelzebub's sugar baby, Beelzebub gets to be with Gabriel all the time, and Michael—as duty officer and thus second in command—gets a promotion, taking the role of Supreme Archangel; they can keep working on their own plan with even more resources and influence.

Now they just need to find something grand enough to make THE Supreme Archangel falls, and nothing is better than the Great Plan, or rather, Gabriel refusing to stick to it. This is how we land in the middle of that fateful meeting.

Obviously, everything I am about to show and explain comes down to personal interpretation, but it feels pretty sound to me.

Angels can lie. Angels can lie really well, especially Archangels whose entire job description is to keep up elaborate lies and cover stories in order to keep the system running. I watched the meeting and focused on Michael, her facial expressions, and the eye contact she makes throughout.

As they are about to reach the 'everything ends, amen' part of it, Michael and Gabriel share a look:

We get a wonderful close-up of Michael right after, and to me this looks very much like a smile, a tiny rush of excitement before they begin acting on their shared plan. Then another one when he closes his eyes. It is the timing of the looks that makes me think they're purposeful and not just casual.

And apropos timing, I have re-watched the same two seconds at different speeds like fifty times now and Michael opens her eyes before Gabriel says 'nah'. BEFORE. Saraqael does not open theirs until after, but Michael opens them on his inhale, which sounds like the beginning of Amen, so she couldn't have known what he was going to say right there and then—unless she already did.

Which means she was expecting it, this was an intentional acting choice on Doon's part.

The entire conversation after does not feel like a fight, it doesn't feel like Michael is surprised by his decision. The looks they give each other SCREAM sibling banter, and I know that because I see my sister and me in them.

"I told you you could ask" with that teasing grin and Michael looking up afterwards like "God give me strength to deal with this idiot". No anger, no disappointment, no confusing, nothing. Just mild annoyance over his behaviour.

Then, when Gabriel drops his "only Archangel in the Universe" line, does Michael look angry? Furious? ANYTHING?

No. She smiles. It is all going according to plan and Gabriel is being a little shit, but she cares about him.

Once we reach the cleaning roster, there are more looks.

Like this one before we get a close-up of Gabriel, followed by a blink and you will miss it side-eye; then the lasting look Michael gives him, not annoyed but rather checking in.

Uriel sounds properly annoyed, she looks genuinely frustrated and upset with Gabriel, which makes Michael's behaviour seem even more out of line.

To summarize what we've got so far: Michael and Gabriel came up with a plan so he could go to hell and be with Beez while Michael would take over as Supreme Archangel in heaven. In order to do so, they had to find a fire-worthy offense, and saying 'no' to heaven's Great Plan and victory over everyone and everything certainly did the trick.

For now, it's all going according to plan. However, that won't last.

I am far from done talking about this, so with a big sigh—disappointed but not surprised—I will continue this in a third part, which will be all about the trial.

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5

[mirai-desu]

On the MSATD News

I didn't have time to post a knee-jerk reaction (which those of you from the Downton days know I was apt to do - thank you to all my long term mutuals of my side blog for sticking with me through those days), as I saw the news as I was getting ready to head out for work and it's been… a bit of a day.

Suffice it to say… I am devastated. And my initial reaction was (well after cursing), that it should have ended with S4, but with a different (happier) conclusion. It's called Miss Scarlet AND THE DUKE for a reason. And after all that happened in S4… it really feels like… what was it all for?? Especially if they knew WHEN FILMING THIS?? "Goodbye for now" is NOT "goodbye forever." They really, really really fumbled this.

There's a lot of theories going around, and I will admit it's too hard for me to listen to Stuart's new interview, but going off what other's have said and the parts of the transcript I did manage to read… I just cannot feel like this was actually his decision unless there's something else going on with him (either in his personal life or maybe he has some secret role he's got, because supposedly he hasn't worked since he did ADR on S4). He's been the captain of the ship, and he has always been enthusiastic with discussing the show and had just great insight into playing William. It doesn't feel like he himself was ready to move onto other things (and that's not even how it's worded - some BS about how the show needed it him to be gone for ~longevity~ of the show), like I've seen with other actors are on shows (e.g. Dan Stevens). He still promoted S3 (which came out in the UK after they filmed S4), he still even promoted S4! He was an executive producer for S4!!! Nothing makes sense!

So if it's due to RN… why keep having the other characters say William was only going to be gone a year? Why bother to have the flashback? why bother to have him stay at at Eliza's to recover?? hell I'm surprised they just didn't keep in the coma then--

But really, why even bother to have Eliza write to him? Or have Ivy say what she said to her?? The time apart was supposed to be them looking at their options. They literally foreshadowed him joining Eliza at her agency upon his return. So… what happened?

If it was actually for personal reasons that Stuart left, he has a right to his privacy. But then they should have rewritten S4 to be the end then, since they knew all this time. I can't believe we are getting the full story on this, one way or the other. The more and more I think about it... I do think it was RN's doing though.

Just two nights ago I drafted up a whole meta extolling how one of the best things this show has done has been how they developed William and how he grew as a character. The progression he made as he not only accepted Eliza having a career but encouraging her. His mentorship of Fitzroy. How he came from nothing, from a teenager living on the streets, to become an inspector at Scotland Yard. But they have chosen to toss that all out the window.

Who knows, maybe S5 ends with Eliza deciding to go to New York. But it doesn't seem like they are handling this like Babington's absence in Sanditon. They will make Eliza quickly fall for someone else, and slap fans in the face who have been following their friends to lovers slow burn for five years (because we had to wait for S2 in the first place thanks to the pandemic). And what sucks is that we still got promo saying they are in love with each other. From Stuart, from Kate, from Rachael New herself. We have still gotten promo promoting the romance. Why not have them have a big fight then or something, idk. They gave us hope. And you know what Fellowes says about false hope.

So I'm just supposed to believe that William gives up on Eliza and doesn't return…? No, I cannot. As much as we hated the deaths on DA when they wrote out actors, at least those characters still died in love with their spouses. And while I'd still be foaming at the mouth in anger if they killed him off… yeah.

William's last lines of the show is a flashback including him saying "is it all worth it?" And the answer is… no it's not.

[sadlybeans]

Gothamite, not meta human

(this is based upon a post i cannot find for the life of me so if you do know it, i’d appreciate a tag to give proper credit since this isn’t my original idea!)

There’s something about her that is… different. Maybe it was always there, maybe it came after, but everyone knows that once she sinks her claws on you, you’ll never be the same. She’ll tear you to pieces and build you back up an entirely different way.

It doesn’t really happen to everyone, at least by what little observations can be done. Or well… it does, it’s just that most are lucky enough to substain little damage— most are lucky enough to not catch her attention.

Sam down the street can see perfectly in pitch black darkness, and Jennifer who lives in the fifth floor always knows her way no matter where she is. A lot of the kids in first grade can walk without noise, some fourth graders can pass unnoticed unless they speak.

But some… oh, some she likes. Those she doesn’t want to ever let go of, those she can’t bear to see part.

They can never get rid of her, they can never run.

Her gift is a curse and the curse is a gift.

Nobody really pays attention to the random neighbours and school aged kids when you see them on your screen. It’s them and their curse you’ll remember.

They say Nightwing can truly fly, ever since he was just a little Robin. Maybe he can, maybe he cannot, nobody really knows for sure. All everyone knows is that there’s no fall big enough to hurt him and that some can swear they never see a grapple line pulling him from building to building.

Black Bat is a bit of a mystery, nobody dares talk about her behind her back, but she can fuse in the shadows perfectly or so say those who had the misfortune of crossing her path. Is she a shadow herself? Or are the shadows just at her mercy?

Red Hood can’t die.

Oh yes, many have tried, from the inferior clown to Black Mask, to other desperate people trying to contain his rampage, but it never sticks.

Before he used to be gone for a little while, but he just needed practice it seems. Now he doesn’t stop walking after a gunshot pierces his head.

He’s always been her favourite. He’s always been her dear child.

Red Robin is… a bit of a mess. People can’t tell if he can alter reality or if he just knows what’s going to happen. Or maybe it’s all just an illusion like all the times you could swear you saw him talking to someone that’s not there the next second. Or maybe it’s about all the times it seems he’s many places at once. Maybe.

At first people thought there were many Robins, but pretty fast it became obvious they’re all Robin. They’re everyone you cross on the street, every voice and every face. Do they even know who they are anymore? Were they someone at any point, even?….

Batman never talks much. He’s not shy. Alright, maybe a little awkward, but it doesn’t correlate.

He tries his best to not open his mouth at all, but judging by how much family drama there seems to be, he always speaks at the worst possible moment.

He tries to not say a word. If he does then there’s nothing you can do to stop it, not until the effect wears off.

It feels exhilarating when he compliments you. It hurts like a million knives piercing your heart when he doesn’t.

[according2thelore]

That anon who said they dean being jealous of himself is SO right. I'm LOVING the angsty jealous dynamics you've been feeding us. I'm partial to "young Sam is jealous of old Sam" myself because it's soooo cute and sad. Like yes! Make Sam pout! Make him value himself less! Make him glare daggers at LS!Sam and ES!Dean!!! Make him think he's the odd one out and not wanted! The angst! I'm also dying for ES!Dean to comfort ES!Sam once(if) he realizes that he feels left out. Just UGH. ES!SAM FEELING LIKE THE LAST CHOICE! SO good. I love coming to your blog just to see what you post lol, you just hit every right button for me.

AHHH! THANK YOU!

let's discuss!

SO much of ES!Sam's life up to that point is feeling like the odd one out!

when it's just dean and sam, i think sam doesn't feel like he has to try to fit in as hard. when dean's trying to impress/ingratiate himself with dad? for sure. those awkward few hunts after stanford? 100%

but when it's just dean and sam, they might fight and get snippy, but sam doesn't have to put up a front. he doesn't have to put on airs. in fact, we see a couple times in the show that when sam's trying to be something he's not with dean, it's to protect him/protect his feelings.

so for ES!Sam, to have that safe space (lol pardon the phrase) GONE--sam's only completely authentic space (bc even with jess, he had to hide huge parts of himself)--

it would definitely put him off-balance. to sam, dean is choosing a different, better version of sam. ES!Sam felt safe being his own bitchy self with dean, but to have ES!Dean so clearly prefer a version of sam with all that removed, i wouldn't be surprised if ES!Sam felt the pressure to change to meet ES!Dean's new preferences.

which of course he resents! sam spent so much of his life being told to change: by dad, by dean, by other hunters, by himself.

to find out that your only true safe place to land can, does, and will prefer a seemingly faultless version of yourself?? bro. immediately confusing and devastating.

and even outside of the meta-dynamic of their relationship, ES!Sam is confused! and scared!

because he's also in love with dean. so to be usurped so easily both platonically and romantically?? GRAH! it drives sam crazy!

because he's not even sure which parts he's "allowed" to be mad about. he's not sure if glaring at the space where LS!Sam has his knee pressed against ES!Dean's in the car is an "acceptable" platonic jealousy, or if it's part of his sick-wrong-bad possessiveness that ES!Dean is his.

he's not sure if wanting to rip off LS!Sam's face for making ES!Dean laugh like that is annoyance that ES!Sam's superpower is communal or fury that ES!Dean is capable of belonging to someone else.

he's afraid of coming out and saying a lot of it, because what if it's too revealing?? what if he missteps and ES!Dean recognizes that ES!Sam's agonized ire is because he wants to suck his cock until he can't see straight?

he's annoyed and he's mad and he's upset, but bottling it up is all ES!Sam really knows how to do unless he wants to bring their house of cards down!

as for comfort, i think ES!Dean at first would not recognize this at all, lmao. for all ES!Dean's attentiveness to the changes in ES!Sam's moods and needs, he thinks he's just being a little bitch about the whole thing (his regrettable choice of words, not mine).

like c'mon, we're both weirded-out by this whole thing. we're in this together! and being rude to LS!Sam&Dean is not going to change our situation. dean does not take slights to sam lightly, even if the person slighting LS!Sam is ES!Sam.

i think it would take something stronger for ES!Dean to realize that ES!Sam's feelings are genuinely hurt--or at least confused--about the whole thing. ES!Sam avoids him like the plague, and these men do not sit down to talk about feelings, lmao.

maybe ES!Dean stumbles in on LS!Dean & ES!Sam talking, and LS!Dean is obviously comforting him, hand on the back of his neck, and ES!Sam's got a pink nose and shiny eyes and ES!Dean kind of blows up, because what the fuck did you say to him? what's going on in here?

LS!Dean rolls his eyes and shoves him off like go talk to your kid. i'm not here to mediate your bitchfits.

maybe it finally comes out later, ES!Sam not really able to look dean in the eyes, that he's sick of dean being so whipped for LS!Sam, and since when did dean need other brothers?

ES!Dean doesn't know how to express the fact that he's so taken with LS!Sam because this is a brother that wants him back! that needs him back! LS!Sam loves the hunt and he loves dean, and he's not shy about either of those things! if LS!Sam has free time, he spends it with dean. if LS!Sam is bored, he goes to look for dean. ES!Dean is thrilled by the promise of that future, of a sam who is gorgeous and strong and sexy as fuck and wants dean!!!

so he fumbles his way through it like "c'mon, sammy. he's you."

"is he, though? he's...i don't know. it's hard to recognize myself in him. he's...different....than i thought he would be. i guess."

ES!Sam doesn't know how to say that out of the four of them, he's the only one that feels Other. he wants to be part of this, but they don't make it easy.

ES!Sam doesn't know how to navigate on the outside of the Sam&Dean dynamic. he is the Sam in the Sam&Dean dynamic--he's realizing how strange and alienating it is to be not Sam or Dean in that, and he hates it.

"you think i'd put up with some guy that wasn't you?" dean scoffs, and they both kind of stare at each other for a second, because that was dangerously close to the truth.

"listen," ES!Dean follows up quickly, because he's not willing to let those words sit in the air too long, for the off-chance that ES!Sam will have time to process them. "you're my sam, okay? my pain in the ass little brother. this guy is sam, but he's that dean's sam. so. y'know. they're not us. or ours, or...whatever. you're still the little shit i'm gonna bug first."

it's tense for a long moment, unsure if that was too honest, too revealing. ES!Sam's still breathing a little fast, and ES!Dean keeps shifting on his feet.

"you're an asshole." ES!Sam finally says, exhaling, looking genuinely un-strung for the first time in weeks, and ES!Dean practically slumps forward in relief.

"aw, sammy. you sure know how to make a girl blush." he coos, and ES!Sam swats him away, all it's sam, you know it's sam.

and ES!Dean is smiling and rolling his eyes and his hands are still shaking under the table like yeah, yeah, whatever you say.

GAH!!!!!!!!!!!! jealous sam! devastated sam!!! isolated sam!!!

YOU GET IT!!!!!!! YOU UNDERSTAND THE VISION!!!!!!!!!

thank you for this ask!!! and for your kind words!!! mwah, mwah, mwah! <3

-lizzy

[abby118]

do you think loki truly believed the reason they gave for wanting to rule earth? (in reference to the “life’s great lie” speech, not the “it is my birthright” reason. unless you want to talk about that too)

I'll preface this by mentioning this meta because it's largely an opinion I share.

We don't know how he was found, nor the exact state he was in when he was found after the fall, but what we do know is that he was tortured and his mind was under some level of control (the extent of which is not entirely clear).

To quote Tom: (the pictured link)

(If you want to read more metas about the torture and mind control - X, X, X, X, X, X I X, X, X)

My opinion is that, and I'd said this before, the best way to get somebody to cooperate and do something for you is by convicting them that it is something they want. I think Thanos, the Other, the Black Order, or whoever happened to be in contact with Loki over the period of that one year tried to do exactly that. He was valuable to them, someone who survived such thing and the entire following year was valuable to them.

I think it's safe to say, that despite his powers and strength, he was left weak and vulnerable after the fall. Nobody would be completely stable after such experience, especially with the events that led up to it. The thing Loki got from all of that, was a false sense of control, he might have felt like he was getting something out of it, something which would have benefitted him, proven to him that he was capable and good enough. That he was on top of what was being done to him. You're not forced to do something if it's your own goal, if you become the ally, if you preach the "truths" that had been fed to you, right? That.

I think he both wanted to win and lose at the same time, though each of those was different. He thought he wanted to win for reason I've mentioned above and he wanted to lose for reasons he was hiding from himself, things he was avoiding facing. One of these was stronger and that's why you get the "You lack conviction." line. That's why he did lose.

And one might argue this to be a stretch, but "I don't have it." he says and immediately brushes it off by referring to the tesseract after Thor tells him to give it up and go home with him. He thinks he can't, because it's not there for him anymore. But what if he gets taken there? I think that's a bit different. And I also think he fully expected to be executed (after all, he asked to be executed during the excuse of a trial he got) and if not, rotting in a prison in a world that used to be his home for over a thousand years is better than whatever Thanos had in store for him.

So I think he did believe it, just not enough for it to be true.

[sineala]

Superheroes and ethics

I realized that I wrote this last month on Patreon and forgot to post it here. I got asked to write meta about superhero ethics with regard to Steve and Tony. I ended up writing mostly about how Captain America's Plot Armor interacts with his principles.

I have been asked to talk about ethics and philosophy with respect to Steve and Tony. Unfortunately, the only philosophy-adjacent disciplines that I know well enough to speak about with any confidence are formal semantics and pragmatics, which isn't really all that useful in daily life unless you'd really like to learn about the differences between entailment, presupposition, and implicature, and also the Gricean maxims of conversation, which are great if you want to completely ruin conversations by violating them as many times as you possibly can.

So I'm not a philosopher, sorry.

But! I can talk more informally about Steve and Tony and ethics.

And I know there's been a lot of meta -- and actual books -- written about their differing views. I have a book here, A Philosopher Reads Marvel Comics' Civil War: Exploring the Moral Judgment of Captain America, Iron Man, and Spider-Man, by Mark White, which I have not read yet but it sounds like this is probably the book you want to read if you want an actual philosophical analysis of this stuff. Judging by the reviews, the author decides to associate Tony with utilitarianism and Steve with deontology. That is probably fun. I am in no way qualified to talk about it. On an informal level, the thing I find fascinating about them is that, when it comes down to it, Steve and Tony are really not all that different.

I have been thinking about this for a while, because the last time I left anonymous asks open on Tumblr, the final ask I got before I decided that this wasn't a good idea was someone who wanted to pick a fight with me by asserting that Steve/Tony was a bad pairing because "they don't think alike, have different morals, different interests, and different emotional issues that the other is not capable of helping out with." This is one of the reasons why I don't have anon asks on anymore. But I thought it was honestly an interesting thing to think about.

So I have been pondering this on and off for a while, and I realized that the thing that really bugged me about it was that their general thesis was that Steve and Tony were bad for each other because they have nothing in common. See, I don't think that's true. I think they have a whole lot in common. But I am also willing to acknowledge that canon likes to put them in situations where they're at odds with each other and it seems fairly easy to come up with circumstances that will cause them to want to beat the stuffing out of each other. But, crucially, this doesn't mean they have nothing in common.

(I also think they actually have a lot of similar interests and are actually very capable of helping each other with their emotional issues, which canon demonstrates multiple times. But that'd be a different essay.)

For me, one of the reasons why Steve/Tony are so compelling as a pairing is because they are so similar. Let's call it, like, 95% similar. They are remarkably like-minded when it comes to their values and how they view the world. It's just that then they can fight, bitterly, over the remaining 5% of differences.

They work well together most of the time and it's just the bits where they almost work together that are so agonizing and provide so much material for fandom. Because it's not like they don't understand where the other one is coming from, what they want, or why they want it. They do. They just don't understand how the other person can come up with a different path to the answer given their shared goal and shared values. Steve doesn't understand how Tony is willing to do something that Steve thinks is wrong, and Tony thinks, I don't know, that Steve's ideals are too naive for the real world. Tony thinks Steve's plans are unrealistic and Steve thinks Tony's plans are unacceptable.

There's also an additional complication, which is that Steve as a character has a lot of plot armor that Tony doesn't. Steve decides what he thinks is moral and what he thinks is immoral, and he simply does not do the immoral thing. And the thing is that the narrative helps Steve out with this. It's fine if he's idealistic! It's even okay if his ideals are naive! He almost never has to go against them. I am saying this as a big fan of Steve. The story really helps him out.

For example, Steve thinks that killing is wrong, so he doesn't kill anyone, generally speaking. (Depending on the retcon you believe in, he may have in fact killed zero people in World War II, which is kind of ridiculous.) But in situations where the best of the options involves killing someone, someone pretty much always ends up dead. It's just that someone else does the dirty work. Steve surrounds himself with a lot of spies and assassins (Bucky, Sharon, Natasha) and those people kill the people who need killing.

In Civil War, Steve believes Registration is wrong, and he never has to change his mind. He probably still believes it's wrong. Instead of going on trial, he dies; he never has to face the consequences of any of his actions. The narrative shields him from that. When he comes back to life, Registration is gone and he gets a pardon from the president. It's all taken care of. He causes a lot of damage, and he doesn't even have to say he's sorry for trying to bash Tony's face in, in public, with witnesses, after having destroyed what looks like several city blocks.

So Steve never compromises his principles, because he has the luxury afforded to him by the plot so that he almost never has to be in a situation where he'd have to decide whether he should compromise his principles, say, for the sake of the greater good. He doesn't have to make that choice, because Marvel's not interested in writing stories where Steve has to make that choice. So it just… doesn't come up. He almost never has to put his ethics to an actual test. If you hand Steve the trolley problem, he'd just say, well, I'd save everyone. That's not an actual option in the trolley problem. But he's pretty much always going to be in a plot where he gets to do the right thing and save everyone.

Tony, though? Tony has to do terrible things for the sake of the greater good all the time. He doesn't get to opt out of the decisions. Even on a personal level, he has to do terrible things to himself. He has to decide probably at least half a dozen times whether he should wear the armor even if wearing the armor is hurting him -- say, when he decides to take on the LMD in the arc where he gets his first artificial heart, or in Armor Wars II, or in that storyline in the middle of Busiek's run after he gets beaten up by the Mandarin. And he always decides to wear the armor no matter what the personal cost is to his body. He ends up in a lot of fights where he has to take pretty bad damage to save the world -- and while Steve would also make that decision, Steve's going to heal up and be fine, like in his recent run where Bucky shoots him in the shoulder. He has a healing factor and he's fine in a couple weeks. Tony breaks his back in order to save civilians and then gets addicted to morphine and ruins his life for a good long while. That kind of stuff, with lasting physical consequences, just doesn't happen to Steve. Let's not talk about Streets of Poison.

It's pretty obvious when you look at their biggest fights (say, Civil War and the incursions) that Tony believes that the ends justify the means, and Steve doesn't. However, Steve doesn't exactly have usable alternate suggestions. The plot armor helps him out there. Steve espouses extremely noble ideas, life and liberty and all that… that are not actually workable plans.

And because of how the narrative treats him, he doesn't really need to have workable plans, either. It's not like he actually uses them. Because he's just going to be fine. (Except in the incursions, but everyone came back to life afterward so it's all fine.)

Steve doesn't like the SHRA. Okay. Fine. He believes it's an unjust law. His plan is apparently to just… keep fighting Tony and anyone else who tries to take him into custody for not registering. What's his endgame? Does he have one? His plan appears to be "be on the run from the government forever." As far as I can remember, he would prefer the situation to go back to the way it was but he does not, to my knowledge, ever propose a way of achieving that. He's not out there saying the law itself should be found unconstitutional or anything.

Similarly, with the incursions, after the Gauntlet breaks, the Illuminati have no solution for an incursion that isn't building bombs and destroying the other Earth in the incursion. Either they act to destroy the other Earth, or through inaction, both Earths are destroyed. Big ol' trolley problem. Steve refuses to play. Steve says he can't countenance that. Excellent moral stance. It's very him. He says, "I believe we'll find a way to stop it." He doesn't have any ideas besides "not the thing Tony is doing," which appears to also be his stance about the SHRA. If they'd let Steve stay in the Illuminati… what would he have done? I suppose the possibility exists that if he managed to flip one of the scientists to his side he'd get them to think up an alternate answer. He could have suggested that everyone evacuate Earth. But he doesn't actually have an idea, personally for what to do. Other than "nobody should die."

(That isn't even what happens, in the end. Of course, by the end, Steve is trying to hunt Tony down and kill him, so you could argue that he's not really behaving much like himself there, and neither is Tony.)

Anyway. When you think about it, what Steve wants and what Tony wants, in both scenarios, is pretty much the same thing. They have the same values and the same goals; it's just that the paths they're willing to take are different. But when it comes down to it, they both actually want the exact same thing. Like they do most of the time. They both want to save the world. Except now they're fighting about how to get what they want. The fights are about the details. At least in 616.

We can contrast 616 Civil War with MCU Civil War. I have actually only watched CACW once, so this is going to be fun and possibly inaccurate. The 616 SHRA and the MCU Accords are, very broadly speaking, about the same general topic: government oversight of superheroes. In the MCU, after the disaster in Lagos, the UN decides that they can't just have the Avengers running around wherever they want, exploding things and getting people killed. Tony agrees with the need for UN oversight. Steve does not; he feels that the Avengers should be able to go wherever they need to go without getting caught up in red tape. Here in the MCU, Steve and Tony not only disagree on what the right thing to do is, they disagree on what the right outcome should be, and the reasons for that. Steve wants things the way they were. Tony would be okay with some amount of oversight. They both have different visions of the way the Avengers would look and operate, because they value different things; Steve wants autonomy and Tony wants accountability. The fight isn't just about the details. The fight is about everything.

This isn't the case in 616 Civil War. No one is fighting for (or against) "I, a superhero, should be able to go wherever I want for superhero reasons." UN oversight is one of those things that all the Avengers, including Steve, have agreed about for years; there are panels of Steve asking to get UN clearance before the Avengers zip off to Russia to save Tony. What happens in 616 is that an inexperienced superhero team gets into a fight they can't control, destroying a school in Stamford, CT, with massive casualties. The SHRA is a US bill saying that all American superhumans (which is probably thousands of people) should register with the government, receive training if they want to be heroes, and provide the government with their real names.

Both Steve and Tony are opposed to this, before Stamford. Then, when Stamford happens, Tony realizes the SHRA is happening no matter what and decides to support it. Even with the SHRA in effect, both Steve and Tony think there should be superhuman oversight; Steve just thinks it should be the teams training people up, the same way as they've always done. They don't even disagree about that; Tony also thinks they should be in charge of oversight, but he means himself (and Steve if Steve would ever join him). The people training superheroes would in fact still be them, both of them, no matter which side wins the war. Neither of them trust the government to handle Registration well. Steve's answer is to object to the very idea of Registration and to stay away from the government, and Tony's answer is to get in there and keep the superhero database in his own head so that Gyrich won't get the list of names and start sending Sentinels after everyone.

So they both massively distrust the government's presumed right and/or ability to safely do this, and want to protect superheroes from government oversight as much as possible. That's basically the same stance. Steve just thinks no one should get anywhere near the government, and Tony thinks if he gets in there he can make it less bad. He can be the guy doing the oversight. People who don't register might get arrested but at least they won't be killed by Sentinels, because he can stop that from happening. Steve isn't willing to imprison his friends at all, probably because he doesn't believe Tony when Tony says the only other option is death (i.e., they can't go back to the way things were -- although of course that's eventually what ends up happening, albeit long after Civil War is over). He probably thinks there's a secret third option, because for him there usually is. But what they basically want is the same thing. Tony's just willing to go a little farther than Steve is to get there.

Sure, Tony's plans aren't perfect. But he does have them. Sometimes they're really lousy, because sometimes there is no good solution. I acknowledge that he does a lot of things in Civil War that are actually pretty rotten. I am saying this as a fan of Tony. He does some bad things. He starts a war with Atlantis. He manipulates Peter Parker into unmasking, which has terrible consequences. He builds a prison. He imprisons a lot of his friends. But none of these things involve the government massacring superhumans. The one really, really bad future he's afraid of doesn't happen. (And we know, thanks to that one What If issue, that that's exactly what would happen if he weren't running Registration.) Other bad things happen, yes. But not that, which is the worst.

Steve doesn't want anything bad to happen. Steve just wants the good solutions, with no moral or ethical compromise on his part. and he usually gets them eventually by narrative fiat. Sometimes he has to die first -- which is, of course, what happens in Civil War -- but, eh, whatever, it's comics. That's not really a major drawback for superheroes. And eventually he gets what he wants, because comics return to the status quo. Everything goes back to the way it was.

It's the same thing with the incursions. Neither Steve nor Tony want their Earth to be destroyed, obviously, but Tony is willing to build bombs to destroy the other Earths in case they can't find any other solution. Steve says he thinks there will be another way. And neither of them want to use the bombs! Tony doesn't want to use them at all! The Illuminati don't actually find themselves in a situation where they have to decide whether to bomb a populated Earth until the Great Society incursion, and Tony refuses to be the one to do it. After Namor does it, Tony is distraught and says he thought they'd find another way -- which is the exact same thing Steve said to him except nobody kicked Tony off the Illuminati for saying it. They both have the same attitude. They want the same outcome. They don't want to use the bombs. It's just that Tony's willing to build them. They're pretty much on the same side here about everything (including the desire to not bomb other planets) except the lengths to which Tony is willing to go to have a backup plan. Just like Civil War.

I suppose I would say that, overall, comparing Steve and Tony's relative ethics seems hard to do in a way that is fair to both of them because Steve is so often given the ability to stick to his beliefs in a way that Tony isn't. "What does Steve do when he actually can't do the right thing" is one of those questions that doesn't seem to get explored all that much, except possibly at the end of Hickman's Avengers run, in which everything was going to hell anyway, and it wasn't like he got to be in Secret Wars to try to fix it. He does also tend to quit being Captain America when he doesn't like the government, although I think in that case that's more that doing the right thing at that time is Not Being Captain America.

(Secret Avengers is also a pretty good look at a Steve who has to do bad things and really, really doesn't like the things he's doing. He doesn't handle compromising his own values all that well. I think that would be a whole other essay.)

But anyway, yeah -- I think 616 Steve and Tony are on the same side when they fight, more than you might think they are given how many panels we have of them dramatically punching each other. Tony believes that the ends justify the means, and essentially, a lot of their fights are because Steve disagrees with Tony's means -- but he is very often 100% on board with Tony's actual motives, which I think is a fact that often gets lost when we start talking about their conflicts, because at that point we… want to talk about their conflicts. But I think they really do agree with each other a lot, which is what makes their conflicts so interesting and painful.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

You have a day job? How?!? You write novel-length fics every month if not every two weeks, manage a tumblr with daily essay-length correspondence, co-host a podcast, not to mention the original fiction you just published... how??? There's not enough hours in the day! Unless your job is like, night security guard where you sit in a chair and write fic, I just can't believe it.

But for real you and Vinelle are awesome and thanks for spending your free time keeping us all entertained!

... Do you anons imagine I live in a box somewhere, happily churning out my fanfictions and metas, somehow surviving off something.

I'm very flattered but good god.

Nope, I work 40-hour weeks during the day and am not allowed to write fanfiction/do other things when working just like a normal person. I get by because I a) type fast b) read fast c) I've now been doing this ridiculous hobby for a very long time. It's also my main hobby in that I don't get around to watching that much television or play video games.

The podcast actually is a bit harder to produce because of the time zone difference between co-hosts, which is why our recordings are... sporadic at best.

And thank you for the praise! Look @therealvinelle, praise!

[arkhaline]

My Complete Thoughts on RvB: Restoration

Major spoilers for the entire season below the cut!

I think the biggest sin of this season was not clarifying when it takes place, as it cheapened a lot of the twists by genuinely confusing me or contrasting information that we had already been given in S15-S18. Keep this in mind for the rest of the review.

Maybe the allusion to Caboose’s voice being “misremembered” was confirmation that it was in fact a simulation post-S13, but it still wasn’t super clear to me. Especially since Dylan was talking about the Reds and Blues (even though I know they met post-S10), which kinda made it feel like Restoration could be post-S18 (unless that was the point). There was just enough ambiguity that it really could have gone either way for most of the movie.

I feel like the humor was a bit off?? Maybe it was a generational gap since the show was going back to someone who hasn’t written for it in a while and is older than the current writers (case in point: he used tropes that Gen Z makes fun of a lot, e.g. he’s right behind me isn’t he). The Zoom call bit also went on WAY too long. The metacommentary about the changing attitudes toward RT also felt a bit tone deaf. In general, a lot of the trademark RvB banter just felt stale, it was the more general dialogue that was stronger (though Church telling Caboose to shut up when Simmons was talking did make me laugh).

Also, Grif was so angry all the time at the beginning?? Felt out of character and took me out of those early scenes. Maybe it was a setup for the whole discharge subplot but it just felt… off

The writing was just a bit clunky at the beginning, felt very direct and exposition-y, but that might be because they had so much to cover in so little time. It resolved itself later, anyway (except for the rapid fire ending, there was so much to unpack there).

Alright enough complaining about the general format, here are my more detailed thoughts.

Sheila!!! That is all.

I can excuse Caboose secretly speaking Spanish the whole time because there was a bit in S16 (maybe 17? can’t remember) where he understands something that Lopez said.

I initially completely missed the fact that the Meta’s color scheme was an allusion to Felix, that is so fucked up. Tucker dressed in the colors of the man he hates the most about to kill his closest friends? Jesus.

The Director being Epsilon’s therapist in the YouTube video made me laugh really hard.

Speaking of therapists, Wash was patient 619-B and I think that was the Counselor’s voice. Is the implication that he survived in this timeline?? Because he died before Epsilon fractured himself, so that much should at least be set in stone. Not really clear on that.

The “Great Destroyer” thing felt a bit retcon-y, but I can get behind it well enough.

I got so excited when 479er showed up, glad that we got confirmation that she made it out of Recovery okay. Wish we could’ve seen her and Wash (and Carolina) interact though.

I wish they had done Sarge’s death a bit differently. Kinda wish he hadn’t been all “that worked out well!” only to be stabbed, it felt very “he’s right behind me isn’t he” and made the fact that he was about to be stabbed obvious from a million miles away. There’s definitely something to be said about him sacrificing himself for a blue, and the deathbed interactions he had with the others were really good, but it kinda just felt like shock value?? Like there wasn’t enough build up to the payoff, it just kinda seemed like he decided to save Caboose last minute without any major character motivations or development behind the decision.

Which is another thing, it felt like it relied a LOT on Red vs. Blue dynamics in the beginning, and I was fucking flabbergasted when they actually left Caboose behind. The same people who broke time to save Wash would just leave Caboose to die like that? No way.

Meta!Tucker felt like it wasn’t explored enough, mostly just “no I won’t do your bidding” and “yes you will” back and forth with no real depth. However, credit where credit is due, I LOVED how this gave us a new perspective to Maine’s descent into madness. That ten-years-of-torture-in-a-few-seconds thing? So fucked up. Can you imagine being tortured by the remnants of your best friend, who have zero regard for your well-being? If they did all of that to Tucker in the short time they were together, just imagine what they did to Maine to get him to the point he was at at the end of S10/by Recollection.

Bonus points for the fact that the fragments tortured Tucker without a second thought when they themselves are a result of torture. They seemed to spare no empathy for Tucker despite having been through this themselves. Then again, I suppose they are they are copies of the original Leonard Church, who had no such qualms.

Didn’t realize that Meta!Tucker was voiced by Miles Luna (aka Felix’s voice actor) until the credits, that was an extra layer of fucked up and I loved it.

I really enjoyed Wash’s plot for the most part. I was definitely super intrigued the whole time since so much of his subplot didn’t add up from his perspective. I mean, I think he deserved something more for a send-off since most of his arc wasn’t really related to his character as a whole (besides the freelancer thing at the end). However, I still enjoyed it for what it was worth.

Additionally, if this is post-S13, I wish they’d clarified because I assumed that Wash was suffering from cerebral hypoxia and not some other injury. They kept alluding to something that happened on Chorus, but I wasn’t clear on the fact that it was a separate timeline of events. The Doc plot twist threw me off a lot more as a result.

I could tell he was gonna launch himself off the cliff and it still made me laugh hysterically.

I’m glad that the final battle was in Blood Gulch. It’s cliché, but it felt full-circle. Plus, it was the best resting place for Sarge in canon and a good set-up for a “why were we here” moment.

I knew Simmons was gonna have his arm broken but I still gasped anyway. And when the shotgun was cut in half??? Bro my jaw was on the floor, it was like when John Wick’s dog was killed (probably, I’ve never seen that movie). But the way Simmons cocked the shotgun with one hand was badass as hell, good for him.

I’m glad we got something resembling a Simmons character arc? I think it relied a lot on setup from previous seasons of him becoming a leader, with little to no actual development in S19 itself, but it still felt at least decently satisfying.

“Best throw ever. Of all time” made me laugh, I love a good callback. Actually, there were a lot of fun callbacks to jokes, like the irony bit. They were greatly appreciated.

Tucker getting launched by a warthog actually made me laugh really hard, I love the “shotgun as a code word” bit so much.

The Tex plot twist was SO GOOD, I totally didn’t see it coming. Much better direction to go anyway, since we already put Church to rest in S15. So glad that Caboose was able to get his moment in the spotlight and have the smartest plan of all of them. Unless it was Church’s plan, in which case I find it so sweet that he wanted to bring Tex back instead of himself (even if it did cheapen the S9 “let her go” thing a bit). I also really loved the callback where her armor turned black because of the teleporter, that was really good.

I got so excited when they started playing Round One I’ll be honest. Also, I Say Ooh?? Was not expecting that one.

In all honesty, I didn’t love the soundtrack (kinda felt stock music-y and cliché in a lot of parts, plus it didn’t have the musical style that we’ve come to expect from RvB). It was fine, but nothing to write home about. The campfire song was good too. I know about the whole thing where Trocadero wouldn’t join on unless everyone was brought back on, and now that we know that RT is shutting down, it’s possible that this was because multiple musical artists just weren’t in the budget. That said, it’s a shame that there weren’t more original songs.

I called that Carolina was gonna be Recovery (though now I think about it, why was she doing Recovery?? was it even Recovery since Charon had been shut down??? What happened to her after Chorus???? Also her talking about how her and Wash would do everything together from now on meanwhile she left him behind in some hospital?????). Anyway, the fight with her and Tex was SO fan service-y but I ate it up anyway, good for them.

Tex winning because she was a collection of the Reds and Blues’ memories and she always won against them was so, so good, something to be said about the positive nature of the memories of your friends (I mean just look at how happy they had been when recounting everything they’d been through!)

Also if just talking about someone was enough to create a functional AI, it kinda makes the whole “torturing Alpha to make more AI” thing totally pointless and retcons the entire show but. Whatever.

TEX DESERVED THIS ENDING!! I like the S9 ending in a lot of ways, it was poetic that she was finally allowed to rest after being dragged back so many times against her will, but I think it also felt incomplete because I don’t know if being put to rest was what Tex herself would actually want. There is a significant difference between not electing to bring her back again and choosing to take her out of the fight. Tex was never allowed to make her own decisions, not even in S9. This ending was entirely on her terms, which I think was fantastic.

I loved the rockslide, it reminded me a lot of the ice fight from S8 was just generally very fun.

It’s established that Tucker became the Meta because he had several AI when just two was enough to almost kill Carolina. If this isn’t the canon timeline, then why didn’t Tucker become the Meta in that one? For a reason besides “the writers didn’t think of it”.

I hope that Burnie came up with the idea for this season by reading Meta!Tucker fan fiction.

The Doc thing was so??? Why did they do a Sixth Sense. Like I think that twist would have worked a LOT better if they made it clearer when this took place (I kept flip flopping on whether this was an alternate timeline post-S13 or main timeline post-S18 up until this point, which made the whole Doc-died-on-Chorus thing feel like it came out of nowhere since, if it was post-S18, we knew that Doc survived Chorus. It also makes Epsilon’s sacrifice to get them all out of there feel a bit cheaper since they didn’t all get out of there, but maybe that suggests that S15-S18 are the main timeline).

How did Doc heal Wash’s leg?? Was it even broken in the first place??? Did they ever clarify that????

I GASPED when the Freelancers showed up. It was camp as hell and hard to take seriously but also I don’t even care. I’m glad he got some kind of goodbye, since he was always too late to do so as a Recovery agent.

Kinda funny that Wyoming wasn’t there but Florida was, and also South was there even though Wash murdered her in cold blood. Anyway.

When One showed up I felt every emotion I think

Bro where the hell was Donut? There was no good reason for him not to at least show up, maybe on the pelican with One or something. Especially since S16 and S17 were dedicated to an entire arc about how everyone should stop disrespecting Donut, like come on.

Edit: did a little research and it might be because there’s no pink armor in the game this season was filmed in? Which is so hard to believe, since Halo has so many references to RvB. I can’t believe they would just cut out the armor colors of one of the main characters and make it impossible for him to return in the way we know him, it’s messed up.

I know time was short, but I wish we had more time to explore Tucker’s feelings post-Meta. Especially since he killed Sarge, even though it definitely wasn’t his fault. There probably wasn’t enough time to get into all that, but still, he seemed remarkably fine after everything that had happened. I guess that kind of exploration is what AO3 is for lol.

I have mixed feelings about the end for Tex and Church. On one hand, Tex calling herself Allison Church was so sweet and I loved how caring she was, it reminded me of when she said goodbye to Alpha during the Freelancer saga. Also, the fact that there was finally a Church free of the memories of his predecessors felt very satisfying. However, I kind of wish that they could have just had their happily ever after and stayed in the memory unit. I understand the decision—destroying the remaining AI was really the best way to make sure Project Freelancer was put to rest forever—but I kinda feel like she and Church deserved better than simply being put down after everything they’d been through.

One final team kill for Caboose. Ow.

The animation was really, really good!! It looked much better than that plasticky look the trailer had. I didn’t love Epsilon’s animations (they felt a bit jerky and overacted), but otherwise I think they did a really great job. I especially loved how they animated the AI on Tucker’s visor, it looked cool as hell.

I think one of the things this season suffered from was the overall tonal shift in the writing. Burnie hadn’t written for, and Matt hadn’t solely directed, a season in a LONG time. We’ve come to expect more character-focused narratives that dive into the nuisances of the characters and their relationships, and we didn’t really get that here (unless you count Sarge’s deathbed confession to Grif that he was hard on him because he wanted him to be more, which still felt a bit shallow. Actually, there are lot of things which could be considered set-ups in retrospect, but their intended payoffs didn’t feel like payoffs). I think there was a consequential whiplash as compared to what we have come to expect from RvB, and while the writing style we got wasn’t inherently bad (again, I liked a lot of it), it was definitely different.

I really, really hated that Grif left at the end. That’s literally the antithesis of his S15 arc, which felt much more complete and true to the character than this one. It’s impossible not to compare these arcs because of how inherently similar they are, and because I believe the S15 arc is superior (Grif’s exhaustion was a more subtle and believable reaction than this Grif’s raw anger, and his realization of how much he relied on his team was much more powerful than this Grif just tapping out), it makes the S19 Grif arc feel poorly thought out.

Also, he wanted to be discharged, but I don’t think they worked for the UNSC or any other military organization after Chorus since they all retired, so was any of that really necessary? Maybe retirement is just a vessel, so to speak, to represent Grif leaving adventure behind him for good. Still, I liked the way S15 handled this arc a lot more.

Vale Deah. Ow.

NO GRIMMONS??? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???

The most we got was Grif leaving and asking Simmons to come with him but like. “not scared to take risks my ass”, Burnie.

Honestly, I think this season was a victim of its format. Eighty minutes isn’t a lot of time to properly send off these characters, especially when RvB as a format is based on multi-season arcs. There just wasn’t enough time to build up tension or explore the dynamics of something as extreme as Meta!Tucker in a way that would feel satisfying. That said, I think Burnie did a pretty good job fitting as many things as he did into this format. A part of me is almost glad that Grimmons wasn’t made canon? I feel like it might’ve felt rushed to give it a satisfying arc in just 80 minutes in addition to all of the other shit going on, and I think after 21 years they deserved at least a satisfying resolution. However, they did NOT deserve an ending which implied that they would never see each other again, what the fuck.

TL;DR? 7.5/10. Far from perfect, and there were a lot of creative decisions made that I heavily disagree with. However, they did a lot right, too, and it still seems heartfelt in a way that helps me overlook some of its flaws. Overall, I enjoyed this season for what it was worth. There are some qualities of S17 that I think made for a better final goodbye to these characters, and some qualities of S19 that I think made for a better goodbye (in all honesty I never finished S18, but it wasn’t really a “goodbye” season anyway). Wrapping up a 21-year-old series is very difficult, and I have a lot of respect for Burnie and the others who worked on Restoration for what they put together. Truthfully, I’m gonna pick and choose which segments of S17 and S19 are canon in my heart (S17 is still the overall canon ending for me), but I’m happy with what we got in the end.

Anyways, I’m happy to chat more in the replies, let me know your thoughts!

[david-talks-sw]

Luke Skywalker in 'The Last Jedi' (2/2)

OK, so in Part 1/2 of this post, we explored why Luke's TLJ characterization isn't really inconsistent with what had previously been established in Star Wars lore. It tracks. Dare I say: it works.

And yet... something still feels off, right?

Well, the reason for this is because Luke's character development is impacted by the film's structure, which in turn is impacted by - of all things - Poe's lack of development in Episode VII! Just hear me out!

The intention: Making the audience feel the same emotions as the protagonist, deuteragonists and antagonist.

This is what most movies strive for. Unless the film is trying to go for some dramatic irony, you want your audience to be on the same page with your protagonist, emotionally-speaking.

And y'know what? Rian Johnson does this very well.

Overall, he displays a very good grasp of making us, the audience, feel the same emotions as a film’s protagonist (generally, the main character, whose POV we follow) or deuteragonist (the ‘secondary main character’).

Rey was expecting to meet the Luke from the Original Trilogy, the Luke from Legends... and instead was disappointed to meet an old jaded hermit. Just like many of the fans were.

Finn is fooled by DJ, mistaking him for an archetypal "misfit with a heart of gold". Just like the fans were.

Poe is increasingly frustrated with Holdo, just like we were.

Call it "meta", call it "subversive", the bottom line is that some of the narrative choices that a lot of fans criticize the film for are intentionally placed there to put you in the same mental state as the characters you're following, even during the film's twists.

But as a result, if a character isn’t the protagonist (Rey), or the deuteragonists (Poe or Finn), or even the antagonist (Kylo)... they'll barely get any development.

They might get one or two scenes for themselves tops, but overall secondary characters like Luke, or Holdo, or DJ will mostly be shown through the filter of Rey or Poe’s or Finn's POV.

The Problem: Luke isn't a protagonist or deuteragonist, so he isn't developed to the audience's satisfaction.

Don't get me wrong: Luke has the second-most screen time in the whole film, but that's because Rey is the one with the most screen time, and he's primarily a character in her storyline.

To be fair, he does have his own subplot, he's the spiritual center of the whole film. But concretely, he’s one step above support characters like Holdo, Leia, Rose and DJ. We're barely shown his own POV and mainly view him through Rey's lens.

Like, there's a reason why in this scene...

... we don't see what Luke witnessed in Ben’s mind, simply his reaction to it: Rey didn’t see it either.

All three "Rashomon" flashbacks are what Rey is picturing in her mind when she’s being told three different versions of the story. She doesn't see what Luke witnessed, so we don't see it either.

And you know what? On paper... this is also not really an issue. It's actually quite standard. I mean, Yoda doesn't get much backstory or an arc in Empire Strikes Back. He's just the mentor figure, and we see him through Luke's POV.

There's no arguing that Luke in TLJ receives much more development than Yoda does in ESB.

But y’know what?

Yoda was also never the protagonist of a whole other trilogy.

So if you're gonna tell an audience that "the protagonist of the previous trilogy strayed from the path and is now a completely different person" - even if they eventually make their way back with a character arc - I don’t think it’s out of order for audience members to expect more development than a regular mentor archetype.

Context is expected, and when it isn't delivered, that'll kill the suspension of disbelief, for many fans. They're not just disappointed in Luke like Rey is, they're not immersed in the movie anymore.

So how do you go for what Rian was going while also trying to keep about half the fans from jumping ship?

The Solution (?) Delving deeper into Luke.

So let’s suppose Luke was treated like a deuteragonist. Suppose we see his own POV more, rather than just seeing him through Rey’s eyes. Would that help? And what would that look like?

Firstly, we keep that deleted scene of him mourning Han’s loss.

Or we show it like in the comic adaptation of TLJ, with Luke getting angry at his decision to cut himself off from the Force, unintentionally levitating objects until Chewie consoles him.

WHAT IT DOES: Either version humanizes Luke, shows who he is beneath the jaded mask he's putting on, gives audience a chance to mourn Han with him.

We keep that deleted scene of him explaining to Rey why he thinks the Jedi were flawed, also known as the “3rd lesson scene”.

WHAT IT DOES: Spells out Luke's rationalization that the Jedi Order needs to end. Marks the beginning of Luke's wake up call.

We add one or two additional short flashbacks of Ben gradually becoming darker and unhinged. Maybe he harms one of his fellow students in a fit of rage.

WHAT IT DOES: Clarifies that Ben was going through a dark period and that's why Luke went to confront him in his hut. He didn't just saunter into Ben's hut, sabers blazing.

Maybe halfway through the film, we see Luke pack his bag as he prepares to rescue his friends with Rey, only to find her communicating with Kyloe.

After all, the novelization shows that, upon opening himself to the Force and sensing Leia, he immediately decides to get back in the game. So if that’s not just something Jason Fry added to embellish stuff, let’s see that.

WHAT IT DOES: Drives home the fact that Luke realizes his mistake. (Although, it might also take away from the subsequent scene with Yoda).

Finally, let’s actually see what Luke saw in Ben’s mind: him killing Lor San Tekka, killing Han, killing Leia, murdering Chewie and countless more innocents all with a smile on his face.

WHAT IT DOES: Provides context for Luke's extreme reaction.

Most of these things are already technically canon, the only difference is that it would be shown on screen. And if all these elements are added, then Luke’s reasons for staying away and his reaction in Ben’s hut are already more understandable.

So where’s the flaws in this solution?

Solution Flaw #1: Plot twist would be ruined.

Talking about this one:

Again, we're seeing Luke THROUGH Rey's POV, for the most part. Our reaction is - intentionally - the same reaction as Rey.

The whole point of the twist is that

we, with Rey, believe Kylo can be redeemed, because

we, like Rey, remember Luke redeemed Vader.

So when she realizes “oh shit, Luke was right, he’s too far gone”... we react that way too.

But if we had seen Ben’s turn as well, if we had seen how he was during his training, if we had seen what Luke’s saw in Ben’s mind, we would all collectively agree with Luke and think that Rey is making a mistake in trying to redeem Kylo.

So when Rey walks away from Luke, rather than hoping she succeeds, we’d just be waiting for her to inevitably fail. We'd be thinking:

"Rey, you moron, you're walking into a trap and Kylo isn't gonna turn!"

Emotionally-speaking, we would be detached from the protagonist.

Solution Flaw #2: Increase in the runtime at the cost of other scenes.

The Last Jedi is already the longest film in the franchise. Adding just three of the above-suggestions would increase that runtime, which wouldn’t work. So you’d need to take something out.

But Finn and Poe’s storylines are already stripped down to their bare bones as it is. Hell, so was the Rey/Luke storyline, for that matter.

Actually, wait... why do we have three storylines, in the first place?

After all, if we look at The Empire Strikes Back, they only have two storylines, right?

The protagonist, Luke, goes to Dagobah.

The deuteragonists, Han and Leia, evade the Empire.

Main plot & subplot. Great.

Wouldn't it be better to just have Poe and Finn do the Canto Bight storyline together? That would give us sme remaining time to focus on Luke’s past, right? Where’s the issue?

Well, Rian Johnson put it this way:

Bottom line, in The Force Awakens, Poe is a clear-cut character. Simple as that. He’s charismatic and fun, but there isn’t much room for him to grow.

A lot of people compare his character to Han, but there's an issue with that comparison (besides the obvious fact that Finn is Han and Poe is Leia)...

In ANH, Han has an arc. He's the philosophical antagonist of the film, he's only out for himself which conflicts with Luke's attempts to help others. Han goes from being a selfish irresponsible gun-slinger to taking responsibility and becoming a selfless rebel, a part of something bigger. Arc concluded.

(Hell, this very reason is why Harrison Ford didn’t wanna keep playing him and lobbied to kill him off.)

So in ESB, Leia is the one who has the arc. Han is just being himself. Leia is the one who must slowly come to terms with the fact that she does love him, despite him being a total nerf-herder. So she and Han bicker, there’s conflict there, but there’s also an underlying affection.

As such, when Poe doesn’t have an arc in TFA, and is already on great terms with Finn, then there’s no conflict if you put them together in a subplot.

And conflict is crucial, in storytelling. If it's absent, then the story becomes boring.

As a result, Rian Johnson had to create conflict and growth for Poe.

Which means that, now, a third storyline is thrown in the mix... and the pacing and development of the other two are affected by this. Some really good scenes need to be cut, some stuff needs to get shuffled around.

For example, remember this deleted scene, from further up?

In the commentary, Rian explained that the reason it wasn’t in the film is because it didn’t intercut well with the other two storylines. *Three and a half, if you wanna count Kylo's personal scenes.

As such, there’s no space to add more scenes to develop Luke's perspective.

And if Rian made more space, well, that wouldn't work either. Because while Luke is the spiritual core of the film... this isn't his movie. He's not the protagonist anymore. But he used to be, and if you show him too much (not as Rey's mentor figure, that is, but as a protagonist or deuteragonist), he'll take the spotlight off the new cast with the snap of a finger.

When Michael Arndt was working on the Sequels with George Lucas in 2012, he encountered this same issue:

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012. It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f*ck, Luke Skywalker's here. I want to see what he’s going to do’.” - Michael Arndt, Entertainment Weekly, 2015

And I'm guessing this is a problem that JJ had to deal with too, hence why Luke was pushed to the end of Episode VII: so as to give the new characters a chance to be developed a bit more, first.

“In a very general sense, the original idea for Episode VII started midway through what we now know as Episode VIII...” - Pablo Hidalgo, Twitter, 2016

There's finally the fact that, while most of those ideas can make Luke's fall more understandable... his story isn't about "how he fell".

It's about how he got back up. The whole point of the film is that even when you've reached your lowest point you can still inspire and be inspired by hope.

So while adding any of the above scenes would only reinforce what was already shown in the movie, be it explicit or subtextual... they wouldn't ADD anything to the theme of learning from failure and getting back in the saddle.

Do I care about Luke’s characterization in TLJ...?

In spite of what the length and intricacy of these two posts might indicate... I don’t, really 😅

Like, sure, I wish more had been done with the character, but Luke was never really my childhood hero, Obi-Wan was.

So Luke in TLJ isn’t a gaping wound in my chest. I didn't whine about it in 2017, nor did I shed tears of joy and said “he’s finally back” when we saw him in The Mandalorian, for example.

Like, it was an awesome scene, but in my mind Luke never left.

Also I’m the type of Star Wars fan who’ll tolerate any addition to the canon by virtue of it being new Star Wars content.

So even if that addition is something I didn’t enjoy during the viewing, I still focus on the positive and roll with it, I come up with a headcanon that'll make it work.

Because you get to do that, with a transmedia franchise!

If you don’t like how it went down in the movie? There's always a comic around the corner that'll retcon it and/or retroactively make it better... that's how it was for the Prequels.

But for the Sequels, it's difficult. There's a scarcity of transmedia content, when it comes to stuff set around the Sequels era.

I mean, can you think of any

Luke-centric work

that serves as a meaningful addendum to what's seen of him in the Sequels?

A novel, a comic issue and a distantly-relevant manga.

That's it.

(The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett are too soon after ROTJ to have any meaningful impact on Luke's journey in the Sequels. Some people see Luke's behavior in those shows as "the beginning of his failure", but I covered why I don't think this is really the case, here.)

Instead of just three items, how about a comic mini-series focusing on the year Luke spent training Leia, or on his adventures across the galaxy as he tries to rebuild the Jedi Order? Maybe he meets Cal Kestis, or Quinlan Vos? Maybe he needs to face against an Oppo Rancisis who was consumed by the darkness, post-Order 66?

Or better yet, how about a video game centered on Luke, in the style of Fallen Order or Jedi Academy?

Get Mark Hamill to motion cap it, he's done it before.

This would also allow the fans who grew up with the powerhouse that is Legends Grandmaster Luke Skywaker to have some fun!

Many fans wanted to see Luke in action, in TLJ, and instead got a pretend-samurai fight. Which is nice, powerful and symbolic, he goes out like a true Jedi, it makes the Force more than a superpower... but it's not a lightsaber duel. In a game, though? Players can go to town.

I dunno... any additional content would've smoothed the blow for many people who didn't like what was done with Luke in TLJ. Sure, you'd always have people who just hated the whole thing, but if transmedia content helped reduce the hate for the Prequels, it could've done the same with Luke.

I'm not sure why that route wasn't taken.

[concretepuppy]

hope does the erectile implant work? i always thought of like... a button or smth lol.

there are three types. i have the AMS Ambicor two-piece hybrid system (the newest of three. AMS is the brand, Ambicor is the model). all options will need to be replaced eventually. *theoretically* they could last forever, but because theyre mechanical devices that are getting a lot of friction, and in the case of phallo penises supporting something relatively heavy (phallo penises are significantly heavier than natal penises bc natal penises are mostly erectile tissue, which is spongy and light, but phallo penises are mostly subcutaneous fat or muscle, which is denser) so eventually they wear out or break. luckily unless the break is the result of trauma and caused any of the stuff inside the silicone to break the silicone or the device somehow breaks through your skin, it’s not dangerous to have a non-functioning device in your body. all three options are attached to your pelvic bone using titanium sutures. the small amount of metal will not set off body scanners/meta detectors and are all safe for MRI machines, and you’re given a patient info card to show when it’s relevant.

the types are:

1. Semi-rigid rod. exactly what it says on the tin. it’s a rod of ball-and-socket joints covered in silicone. the rod is always semi-rigid and does not get more or less hard. you bend it up (at a 90° angle to your body) for sex, and bend it back down for daily use. this option lasts the longest bc there’s less mechanical parts. i know two people who have had it, and both are satisfied, though one says he sometimes has difficulty topping anally if the bottom is a virgin or rarely bottoms anally. in cis men (who are the only population who have any studies wrt erectile implants, so they’ll be the comparison i use) this typically needs replaced every 5-10 years. there are many different brand options

2. Inflatable. A hydraulic system where a “reservoir” of fluid in a bulb that is ovular like a testicle is connected to the cylinders implanted in your penis. there is a button on the reservoir you push multiple times to fill the cylinders with fluid to become erect, then press and hold the button to become flaccid. For phallo patients, the reservoir is typically placed on one side of the scrotum and the other side has a testicular implant, but the reservoir can be placed anywhere in the pelvic region, it’s just easiest to access in the scrotum. This needs replaced more often than the semi-rigid rod bc it has more moving parts, in cis men it generally needs to be replaced every 5-7 years. i’m not sure about brand options bc i never considered this option.

3. Hybrid. what I have. the only existing option afaik is the AMS Ambicor. it’s a hybrid of the other two. it is a semi-rigid device, though less rigid than the rod, so it still has a truly flaccid state. the reservoir is again typically placed in the scrotum. unlike the inflatable, there is no button on the reservoir. you squeeze the reservoir itself to fill the cylinders with fluid & become erect, then you bend your erect penis at a ~60° angle in the middle (it looks very painful but it’s not at all, it’s not even uncomfortable) to deflate it.

i had some issues with inflation/deflation when i first started cycling the device. my balls were still sore so squeezing the reservoir kind of hurt, so i wasnt inflating the device all the way, which made deflation difficult. but now that i dont have any post-op pain, the process is easy and painless and cycling the device (inflating and then deflating it right after. you have to inflate the device once a day to “keep the fluid moving” according to my surgeon, so if youre not having sex or jerking off you just do a quick cycle) takes like two minutes, if that. it typically needs replaced in cis men everg 5-7 years.

my surgeon, Dr. Geolani Dy, prefers the hybrid for phallo patients. it has less risk of erosion (the tip of the device coming out of your skin bc the skin gas eroded due to pressure/friction) than the rod bc it has a flaccid state, but it can handle more weight than the full inflatable and thus is better suited for phallo penises. with the inflatable option OHSU offers, the tip of that device is a bit more pointy than the hybrid, so it also has a higher erosion risk. not sure abt any other inflatable options. but all three options have their pros and cons! there are also external erectile devices. some DIY using two coban/vet wrap and two condoms to create rigidity (note: this is not “safe” as in “safe sex” bc the friction of two condoms means theyre likely to break, so should only be done with partners youre fluid-bonded with), but this really only works for PIV sex and personally i could never get it to work for me. there are companies that make external erectile devices, like the Elator or the Stays Hard. both were designed for natal penises so both companies recommend phallo patients email them and work with them on sizing to ensure a good fit. i never tried these options so i cant speak to how well they work.

[mxtxfanatic]

I know you didnt share you fandom journey for sympathy BUT, I am sending you a big, tight, inescapable hug. You can never get away from it even if you tried. I can and i will smother you in affection so that piece of shits so obsessed with things you like and facts you remember (unlike them) can stay far away and unseen. I am so sorry, I only joined the fandom a few months ago and I never realized how toxic this fandom could be. Filtering doesnt help much, hell staying off social media doesnt either because bullshit is everywhere in large doses. You and your friends are so strong for going through this and still coming out as amazing fandom creators and people. I am glad I see you on my tl. Thank you for all you do, including danfic night (again, try and pry it away from my cold dead hands...i have dead nmj's strength ok?) and being the absolute sweetest person even in DMs!

P.S. I've been curious for a while, have I seen your main around?? like i am nosey who's the amazing person behind this blog do i know them do i follow them am i in a server with them do they-

Awww, you are too sweet 🥺🥺🥺 Yeah I don’t usually talk about my history in this fandom unless it’s relevant, but since I’ve been seeing the subtle shift in the atmosphere in terms of how the new readers are willing to hold discussions and challenge the age old fanons that have since been encoded as fandom law, I figured now would be a good time to let folks know that the issue with jc stans is not new, not exclusive to fights about the “canon jc” tag (which was made on their insistence that we vacate the main tags, something they will now not admit), and has more wide-reaching consequences that you will just never know if the first time you entered the mdzs fandom was when 7seas started releasing it.

(I even forgot to bring up how the 7seas translator got called out for peddling fanon on her metas and mistranslating the actual novel to fit said metas, only to block the people who pointed it out. 7seas had to put out a statement acknowledging the myriad of mistranslations and promising to fix the mistakes (fixes still pending), and that translator has yet to put out another translation with any other publisher since.)

I’m glad that I found this corner of the fandom before I officially joined, and I’m glad that other readers, in turn, find my blog and feel like it’s a safe space to discuss the novel, even if we don’t always agree. It makes me feel like making this blog has actually been a good thing, rather than me just yelling into the void like was the original plan lol. As much bullshit as there is, it’s nice to be able to discuss my favorite stories with different people who love the story for the same reasons I do. And luckily for me, my self-worth isn’t tied into being liked by or feeling superior to people I have no respect for.

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

Ok so here's the fairy tale meta thing based off a lie that I was talking about.

In Dead Apple, there's a flashback scene at Bar Lupin where Dazai explains the concept of apple suicide to Oda, while a track called "Dear Prince" plays in the background. There's a brief mix-up where Oda confuses the story of Snow White for Cinderella - but when I first came up with this, I misremembered what he said (I mixed up... his mix-up...) and thought the line was about Sleeping Beauty.

And I'm so unreasonably annoyed by this because that would've made so much more contextual sense. Why? Because they both involve an awakening. Moreover, there's a few interesting details in the environment of the older tales (I will not be using the Disney versions as the Dead Apple motifs actually connect better with the originals and also because I have never actually seen them... embarrassingly enough) that translate quite nicely to aspects of Dazai's life and bonds.

Specifically, there are some loose parallels to be found with Odasaku and the story of Sleeping Beauty, and Chuuya and the story of Snow White. (Note that this is not intended to be shipping fuel or anything; interpret it however you like, I'm just drawing connections.)

And yeah, I know this is an entire half-baked meta formed around a line that doesn't even exist but please just give it a chance or at least humour me please please please please please

Alright let's get the Cinderella thing out of the way first since I want to at least address it.

Cinderella has its origins in the old Greek story of Rhodopis, which sets up the main aspects of the story we know now: a servant girl from a poor background ascends to royalty through marrying a prince, who searches for her after finding her missing shoe. This doesn't really bear any resemblance to the rest of the movie or any other ongoing themes... unless you want to suggest that maybe Dazai's jumping from one side to the other was something akin to a "shoe-test"; that he was looking for a perfect fit. I think that's quite a stretch though and it's likely this really was just a throwaway line meant to show us Oda's occasional uh... airheadedness. If anyone has any further thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.

It's a shame, really, because the slip up could've been given more significance and also because as an analyst of sorts it is my sworn duty to pull meaning out of absolutely nothing so I guess I took another step further here and made up my own line to analyze in stupidly excessive detail.

The entire point of this was meant to show how both the stories of Sleeping Beauty and Snow White have a theme of awakening, and so do Dazai's bonds with both Odasaku and Chuuya - they both have a function of "waking him up" in a sense. However, the means of doing so manifest very differently.

So, let's talk about Sleeping Beauty.

Sleeping Beauty has its origins in an old Italian story called Sun, Moon and Talia, which has many of the elements we know today but was uh. A lot darker. And way more non-consensual. The version the more modern story takes its roots from is Perrault's version. Here are the important bits to this analysis: the princess pricks her finger on a spindle out of curiosity, the good fairy puts everyone in the castle to sleep along with her for 100 years so that she will not be alone when she wakes, the prince does not wake her with a kiss but instead she wakes just by his presence and they sit and talk for a long, long time.

So, on to my delusional parallels. Part one: the princess pricks her finger out of curiosity. See, for Dead Apple, we have to rethink this a bit because Dazai brings up the concept of apple suicide, not murder. Of course, this is a parallel to himself and his disregard for his own life, so here we can take it that he did not "prick his finger" out of mere curiosity, but also, likely out of a desire to "sleep".

It's hard for me not to draw a connection between the curiosity aspect of the finger prick and Dazai's curiosity to join the mafia, especially with the next part - where everyone falls asleep as well for the time the princess is asleep. Essentially, no one will age or die. For as long as the princess remains unconscious, the world will not change. And if the princess perhaps, wanted this, then we can infer what is likely a fear of being left. Maybe even a fear of living. Dazai joined the mafia because he was curious if it would have what he sought. Instead, he spent his days trapped in an "oxidizing dream" as he detached further and further both from his humanity and from others. The mafia is already a place where people don't talk to each other openly and we know Dazai was even more unknowable than that - if he doesn't care about himself or others, the dream goes on. He stays asleep, and if he doesn't care, then he doesn't lose anyone - no one truly "dies".

As for the last part, there isn't much to say. Dazai warms up to Odasaku because the man just talks to him. And likes talking to him. And doesn't tell him to stop when he's being really freaking weird. But notably, Odasaku doesn't do much at first to help Dazai "awaken". It's only when he's about to die in his fight against Gide that he realizes he regrets not saying something sooner. Odasaku only has one chance to wake Dazai before he dies and he does it by shattering that dream that he will find what he's looking for. Paradoxically, that hope Dazai held onto was what trapped him in that singular mindset. Oda dies shortly after and the illusion is broken. Dazai wakes up, his world kickstarts where it had previously been stagnant and Dazai greets the sun and tries to live.

See why I'm slightly annoyed this wasn't the line now?

But hey, while we're at it, let's also talk about Snow White because the Dead Apple movie was actually a lot more firm with its connections than I think people realize.

Firstly, I would love people to know that in the original Grimms' fairy tale, Snow White doesn't clean the dwarves' house but in fact burgles it, eating their food, drinking their wine and falling asleep in one of their beds after testing each one, and generally leaving the house in complete disarray. Yeah. Not related to my point at all, but this sounds an awful lot like something Dazai would do (but more out of mischief than naivete of course).

Here's the important part though: Did you know that the Queen attempted to have Snow White killed not just once, but three times? The first two times, the dwarves were the ones to save her and quite quickly - they made a deal after she broke into their house that she would fix it up for them and maintain it in exchange for her staying with them in safety. It's an agreement of sorts, but as they became fond of her, they try and save her life in earnest. The poisoned apple is actually the third attempt to kill her, where the Queen bites into the white, non-poisoned part of the apple and Snow White, thinking it safe, eats the red half and falls asleep.

Hey. Remember the colour of the pill Dazai took in Dead Apple?

Yeah, someone on that team knows the original fairy tale.

Interestingly (and this is where I got really excited), there are three different attempts to kill Snow White (or, if Dazai is to be believed, three different attempts at her own self-destruction) - and there are three different instances where Chuuya "wakes" Dazai, twice while they're partnered (when they have an "agreement", terms in a sense as partners), and once in Dead Apple.

The first is in Fifteen, the infamous scene where Dazai shoots the body and Chuuya snaps him out of it by wrenching the gun out of his hands. I'm honestly a bit too tired to go super into that scene right now but I'm doing a little bit on it later - all that needs to be acknowledged here is that Dazai was out of it and Chuuya forced him back to earth. The second occurs during the Dragon's Head Conflict when Dazai is completely insensitive to the death of a mafia executive and Chuuya decks him for it. The now-infamous line "no one would believe that" is often misinterpreted I think. Chuuya says this in response to Dazai's "I'm human, too, you know." He's not saying "you're not human", he's saying "you are human but no one would believe that with the kind of shit you're saying and doing". It's the same kind of sentiment in the first scene where Chuuya intervenes, I believe. And it is a form of waking, in that Chuuya snaps Dazai out of his more inhumane moments - he basically calls him out and forces him to reevaluate; the epitome of a rude awakening.

Now for the Dead Apple scene proper.

Firstly, let's establish something. They are no longer partners in the mafia. They are even on separate sides. The framing of this changes Chuuya's actions from working with Dazai with occasional call-outs to bring him back to earth, to saving him in what is quite literally a rescue.

In the original myth, again, there is no waking kiss. Instead, in this third time, everyone assumes Snow White is really dead, that she will not be coming back. The prince, who happens across her, insists she at least receive a proper burial. But when carrying her coffin, one of them trips and they stumble, which jostles the princess enough that the piece of apple stuck in her throat is dislodged and she coughs it up, reviving. Uh...

Yeah.

Anyways this got kind of messy at the end and idk if it even made sense this is really just unhinged rambling so...

Tldr, Odasaku and Chuuya both help "wake" Dazai even if their methods and personalities are very different, which is part of the reason why both bonds are very important. Neither are particularly gentle with him, but waking, especially if all you want to do is sleep, is not a gentle thing.