#troper problems

[boredmezzosoprano]

Okayyy… So I’ve recently become ultra obsessed with Naoki Urasawa's Monster (it’s sooo good). The trope pages for it however are really giving me a migraine🤦🏼‍♀️ simply because they labelled Johan Liebert as a Complete Monster!! If you look on the wiki list for CM in Anime/Manga - HE'S THE PAGE IMAGE🤯 Ahem, he’s a monster for sure but most certainly a Tragic Monster or what is called a Woobie Destroyer of Worlds - there’s a difference! A Woobie Destroyer of Worlds has a reason for why they are what they are, oftentimes something traumatic in their childhood - Johan had several severely messed up things happen to him from the time he was born‼️ Also a CM is incapable of loving another human being: JOHAN WOULD DO ANYTHING FOR ANNA!! Listen, I’m not trying to justify his actions but I don’t think it’s accurate to describe the character as being born pure evil when there’s plenty of textual information that refute that claim! Plus how can they call Johan a Complete Monster but not these characters:

Petr Čapek

He is complicit in Franz Bonaparta's atrocities, likely taking part in the experiments at the Red Rose Mansion. He also helped Bonaparta kidnap Anna from her home and threatened her.

He killed a family, including two children, on Bonaparta's orders.

After re-establishing himself in Germany, he psychologically tortured a new group of innocent children, driving them to violence and suicide, causing the suicide of Milan's son, and showed no remorse for it even though they were childhood friends.

He had contempt for Turkish people, trying to expel them from their homes.

He murdered the five leaders of the resistance against him.

He masterminded a plan to burn down the Turkish quarter, which could have caused massive loss of life.

He attempts to convince Johan to be the Neo-Nazis' leader in a grand plot to begin World War 3 and wipe out all non-Aryan races in the world.

He repeatedly tried to have Johan's sister kidnapped so he could use her as a hostage.

He showed no apparent remorse when his childhood friend Milan was gunned down in an attempt to assassinate him.

He ordered Eva Heinemann killed when she had served her purpose, and then had Martin killed for failing to do this.

He showed no concern for the murders committed by Johan, claiming that they were his will.

He murdered his driver in a fit of paranoia.

He gave up Bonaparta's whereabouts in order to save his own life.

Compared to Franz Bonaparta, who made a serious attempt to atone for his own crimes, Capek shows very little remorse.

The Baby

He is established to be a Neo-Nazi and a racist politician, even owning a neighborhood filled with people like him.

The Baby plans to use Nina in order to get her brother's attention.

Despite appearing affable towards Nina, it is nothing but a facade in his manipulation towards her.

He arrogantly believes that Johan supports and agrees with his racist views without understanding that he is a nihilist who doesn't care about those beliefs as he looks down on all humans equally.

He runs over Tenma with his car and is disappointed that he did not die from the impact and then later kidnaps him.

Like the organization, he wants to convert Johan to his racist ideology and make him the new leader of Germany under the organization's control.

He tries to purge the Turkish community by burning down a neighborhood filled with them. This is really bad as this would qualify as an attempted genocide since he strongly hates the Turks.

While at that, he enjoys the destruction of other minorities that he causes.

The Baby tortures Tenma just because he's Asian.

Even when Tenma told him that Johan hates all humans equally, he continued to beat him anyway.

He attempts to kill Dieter, who is a kid that Tenma saved from Hartman and expresses gleefulness during the action.

He threatened to kill Martin if he failed his job.

Throughout the story, he shows no remorse for his actions.

UPDATE: Johan was recently removed from the Pure Evil wiki 😃

[deancasforcutie]

"growing up is hearing impassioned completely wrong lectures about history you personally remember really well" but it's specifically the puriteens (+nominal adults they've become) saying the friendly homoeroticism of aughties shows was always intended and received maliciously. bullSHIT we called it HoYay and thought it was awesome

[greatwyrmgold]

Many works on TV Tropes have a Fanworks page, which indexes fanworks of that work which have either a TV Tropes page or a troper who wants to recommend it without writing a TV Tropes page.

Bocchi the Rock! has a fanworks page, with exactly one fic on it. It's a crossover with Worm. I am not making this up.

Everybody remembers the day the world changed forever, the day parahumans first came to be, and it all started with a... small pink glowing teenage girl floating above the ocean... Upon first contact with the mysterious entity she appeared to be perfectly still, but upon closer inspection was constantly vibrating so fast the human eye could barely keep track of her.

—Bocchi the Scion! (ぼっち・ざ・さいおん), Guitarhero 1.1

Adaptation Personality Change: On a mass scale. All capes who triggered naturally possess Bocchi's extreme social anxiety. This is best exemplified with Taylor Hebert, who attempted to join the Wards, but could barely sign the paperwork before ultimately running away.

���BtS (ぼざさ) TV Tropes page

I've only read one chapter so far, but the prose is good, the characterizations seem good enough, and the premise and tone are absurd enough that the apparent lack of direction isn't necessarily a problem. The worst thing so far is either needing to google random Japanese words (I now know what "riajuu" means) or the nagging concern that this is what you'd be like if you had godlike superpowers.

And just for the sake of finding a cold, damp, and dark area quickly, [Bocchi] quickly blew a hole in the side of a cold and tall mountain and hid there for a bit. Although it was a little loud as the freezing winds continued to rage on, she quickly put a stop to it by canceling all noise around the mountain, making sure it was only around the mountain that noise was canceled. She wouldn't make the same mistake of canceling all the sound in the world twice!

...just me? Oh, okay. Just the googling thing then.

Anyways. If it sounds interesting, I recommend giving it a shot.

[isagrimorie]

I will say House of Usher’s first 2 episodes were not the best showing for it, but the rest really got me especially as the past gets threaded in and we discover the terms of the Deal.

(The first 2 episodes is still way better than Midnight Mass which was just plodding all the way through, and possibly my least liked Flanagan show).

I’ve looked at the TV Tropes forums and so many of the tropers there have such a problem with Verna being a supernatural being.

I feel like most tropers couldn’t wrap their heads around the idea that Verna as personification of Death can be and do more than just ferry people to their death.

Meanwhile, for me it’s just like that story in the Sandman where Death and Dream had a bet and as consequence one dude can never die until the man taps out.

(Spoiler, said man never does and outlives Dream).

Also, Verna isn’t “stalking” any of the Usher kids because they were predisposed to Roderick’s degenerative disease. They were all dying because Roderick made an impulsive deal with Death.

For 40-50 years all Ushers will live consequence free in the lap of luxury, but then all of the bloodline dies.

It’s not a matter if the Ushers can avoid death but a matter of how. They can die in peace and without pain or they can die brutally. It all depends in their actions and choices.

Roderick condemned his entire family with the deal with Verna. Condemned in childhood and even before they were born.

Also he could have stopped having kids, but apparently he doesn’t believes in condoms.

And so his kids keep appearing out of nowhere “dropping like new smartphones.”

[nokingsonlyfooles]

The Dark Secret of Zootopia? (Part 1, Identifying the Problem)

What? If you're a fan, you already know Zootopia's "secret."

It was originally a dark dystopia where the predators wore "tame collars," but the Zootopia team got nervous about how depressing it was and did a last-minute rewrite that used most of the old assets and plot points! Right? So are we gonna do a deep dive on that?

Not quite.

What if I told you that despite the rewrite that took out the obvious metaphor for systemic oppression, more evidence of systemic issues remains and... it probably doesn't make any difference?

So that half-assed poll I put up suggests more than one person would like to see me take Zootopia apart, and that probably means delving into the racism metaphor, but, man, I don't have the headspace for that today! So I took a spin through the Headscratchers page, hoping to find something a little more compact. There had to be something other than the racism metaphor that a lot of people had trouble with, right? Sort of an appetizer for a busy Tuesday?

Nnnot really.

Here's an obvious Libertarian voter who can't fathom that people would be racist when it runs contrary to good business practices! We go through quite a few tropers positing non-racist or less racist reasons to refuse Nick service - including one who believes prejudice against predators "wasn't a thing" until Judy's press conference, and before that people just didn't like foxes - before some hero arrives with a fire extinguisher and says, I'm paraphrasing, "Racism isn't rational! End of story!"

Then we got this question, which has the answer contained in it already!

I've trimmed the first response, from someone who apparently sees nothing wrong with just rolling up and asking to pet a sentient being. "It doesn't have to be a metaphor for anything"!? They go on to posit that maybe it's a taboo in funny animal society. 'Cos, you know, you don't have to read Zootopia as a metaphor for human society if you don't wanna.

(The Author! He's already dead! Why you gotta desecrate the corpse like that?)

It takes a few more self-soothing responses from evident people-petters before, again, someone rolls up and says, "It is exactly white people wanting to 'pet' black people's 'weird' hair, something that is unfortunately a fairly common patronizing occurrence in the U.S., at least."

And after that, we still get this:

"I have a Black friend and he lets me pet him all the time! Cut white people some slack! They're just curious! Let us pet you!"

Zootopia is racism lite, folks. Zootopia calls out racism primarily as something an individual does when they make decisions based on their preexisting biases - which, in Nick and Judy's cases, stem from childhood traumas that we get to see on-screen.

This is a version of racism that a child - with a little hand-holding from a caregiver - could understand. All but the most toxic conservatives ought to be okay explaining this kind of racism, including the toxic neoliberal centrists! "You see, little Kayden, there is no such thing as 'society.' 'Racism' is what happens when a lot of individuals make bad decisions. All you have to do to stop it is make better decisions, and encourage others to make better decisions too! Why, when I was your age, we chose better hairsprays without CFCs in them, and that fixed global warming and the hole in the ozone layer forever!"

"Auntie Margaret Thatcher, isn't climate change still a..."

"WE FIXED IT FOREVER, LITTLE KAYDEN." *strained smile* "So just don't buy fox spray! If enough people don't buy it, they'll stop making it."

"Why is it okay for someone to make a spray specifically to hurt foxes in the first place?"

"...If you don't stop asking questions, I shall bury you under the Aberfan coal tip with all the rest, little Kayden. Eat your popcorn."

But even that's too much for some folks! They retreat behind the ambiguity of the metaphor and wonder why the funny animals make such odd decisions, in the willful absence of context. With no context, why would a bunny be able to say, "It's okay if we call each other 'cute,' but you shouldn't." That's blatant hypocrisy. Bunnies don't own "cute." It's just a word!

Don't apologize, Benjamin! Why would you do that?

This entire movie is a modern Aesop fable and you need that human context. "Cute" privilege to "n-word" privilege is a one-to-one correlation, like petting a sheep is to petting a Black person. It only makes sense because you live in human society and you can fill in the blanks - because you have seen similar manifestations of bias and you already know they're not okay. You don't even have to know why or agree. To get the joke, you just have to know this stuff happens and people think it's rude. That is not a high bar to clear!

And that is, apparently, the level of anxiety we have about unpacking our own racism. Not even the systemic kind. Not even the big issues those scary "woke" zombies are trying to "cancel" you about. Just, "An individual - including you, for you are an individual - can make bad decisions based on their experiences."

Whaaaat? No I don't!

"These animals have nothing to do with me and therefore, this movie makes no sense."

These are the people Zootopia needed to reach. Not the ones who already had a clue, the ones who were so scared of getting one that they buried their heads in the sand and refused to acknowledge reality itself. So here's a cheerful little film with an animal metaphor and an optimistic resolution! Surely they must feel safe enough to unpack racism in this context?

But they didn't. Much like Green Book, this film was safe and simple enough to walk away with an Oscar from an Academy that's mostly white, male, and terrified of minorities - and the people who didn't want to get "woke" slept right through it. I don't think that's what they were going for, given that V 1 of this film had systemic oppression worn around the neck of every predator with a blinking light on it.

Remember, they reused assets and plot points from the original and rewrote everything fast. Traces remain. But if the ostriches in the audience can't understand "cute" privileges, do they have any hope of noticing Judy's bathroom at the police academy has a toilet that can kill her and no accommodations for a species her size?

Well, they might have. But the way the film handles it gleefully assassinates everyone's chance to see the systemic issues and respond to them appropriately.

Tune in next time, for Judy Hopps, bunny cops, "Black Excellence" and our old friend Barack!

[arataki-neato]

I used to be a user on TV Tropes, but a few years back, I was banned for something that wasn't my fault.  Here are the details:

I was a frequent contributor to the Complete Monster forum, but one day, we started talking about some seasons of Kamen Rider that had no Complete Monsters, and another user said that there were more.  I asked which ones, but before the user could answer, my post was thumped, and a third user told me to stop asking pointless questions, which confused me greatly.  I tried to clarify that I'd been responding to the last post, but the third user must have thought I was talking back, and they hollered the mods.

Now I'm unable to participate in forums (that also includes the Edit Banned/Suspended thread), edit or create pages, read, send, or get messages, write reviews, upload videos, or use the Wishlist, Ask the Tropers, Trope Finder, You Know that Show, the Trope Launch Pad, the Cut List, or Submit a Bug.  Worse yet, I can't even change the email address I'm using on my account, and whenever I try to use it to create another account, I get a message saying, "This email address is already in use.  Please try another".  I'd delete my account if I could, but that will only make my account permanently inaccessible, so I'll still not be able to use my email address for another account.  The Contact Us function is useless to me as well because the only people who can respond to email messages are the mods and the staff, and they will not respond to my messages.  None of this would be a problem if I had access to another email address, but I don't.

Fortunately, I remember the (user)names of some people who use the site: ACW, Lightysnake, and TheMadCr0w.  Here's what I'd like you to do:

First, go to the mods of TV Tropes and ask them if it's possible to unthump a post on a forum.  If they say yes, ask them to unthump Post 23 of Page 6082 (and Post 152048 of the thread as a whole) of the Complete Monster thread.  Tell the mods nothing of our conversation, my involvement in this matter, or of your plans to tell other Tropers to compare any posts.

If the mods unthump the post, contact (in this specific order) ACW, Lightysnake, and TheMadCr0w.  Send each of them a message that lets them know you have a few things to tell them and tell them to follow your instructions to the letter.  If they respond, tell each of them that Post 152048 of the Complete Monster thread has been unthumped, and ask them to compare it with the previous post to see how they actually relate, and then ask the mods for their input.  Tell none of them anything of our conversation on Tumblr or my involvement in this matter, but do tell them to tell the mods nothing of your involvement in this matter.  Inform each one of them that you're contacting the other two and that they should send messages to each other as often as possible and make sure they cooperate.  After that, keep an eye on Ask the Tropers in case a conversation arises.  If it does come up, take part in the conversation so that (in case it's made private) you can tell me what was said.  (I don't want you to make an Ask the Tropers yourself; I just want you to look out for one.)

Remember to tell me exactly what you tell the mods and each user, and tell those users to tell you exactly what they send to the mods (and each other).  Don't forget to tell me exactly how they respond, and don't forget tell each user to tell you exactly how the mods respond.

PS: There does exist a user called Lightysnake; they've just not made a Tropers page.  If you want proof, simply click on their Edits button.

[blindrapture]

("And here we are, those that skipped. Jordan was coerced into becoming a European terrorist, earning the name 'the White Jester.' He floundered his way through France and Spain, encountering some weird rabbit holes and seeing a lot of death. Then he came back to England, and he and Donnie defeated the Harlequin, their powerful abuser, in the town of Blackpool. There will be other important plot details I skimmed over, but bringing attention to them here would tip my hand to those who didn't skip. It's okay. There's plenty of story left, and no more to skip.")

SATURDAY JUNE 18TH, 2011 (In the Name of Comcast, We are Blessed for this Pornography)

7:15 AM What a beautiful day outside, just lookit that beautiful red sky! It looks just about ready to hug. I want to hug the sky. Don’t you, journal? I do. :D

7:23 AM There’s a goddamn zombie in the kitchen. Just one. He’s slowly looking around. He looks half-comatose. I wanna say he looks like an adult’s mind trapped in a little kid’s motor skills. I’m gonna go get Donnie. We need to get outta here, anyway. And yeah, journal. I kept my promise. Well, half. I told her it felt so strange, after what Mist the Harlequin did. So she respected that, though I tried my best. I feel almost like a slut. But that’s not fair, journal, it’s not; I’ve read, y’know, about abuse victims and they think really badly of themselves and.. I mean, I guess.. I’ll get over it. Oh, I don’t have to get Donnie; she’s coming down now.

8:01 AM She’s very affectionate today. I’m still getting my mind together. I guess the fact that I killed the Harlequin is still—wait, no, that’s not true, is it? She’s not even dead. I don’t think she can even be killed. We’ve just tried our best to trap her in a freezer. Ohh god, I need to talk more with Donnie about thaaaat.

8:24 AM She says she’s been thinking about that, too. We’ve agreed that we really need to get out of here. But we’re not sure where we’d go. We’re gonna go out, look around. There’s gotta be something, y’know?

8:30 AM Going into town. There’s gotta be something, gotta be. Otherwise all that craziness last night would have been for nothing.

8:38 AM Internet cafe. Internet’s not up, is it? Half this shit doesn't even work.

8:41 AM This computer works. ..but the internet doesn— IT DOES,WAY TO GO INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, THEY’RE THE REAL HEROES It’s just really slow! Heh, ain’t that always how it is? aim aim aim aim AIM EXPRESS FUCK YEAH WHO’S ON, okay, it’s 8 AM so it’s about 3 AM back in the States, but who the fuck is gonna be on? ..Paul Botsford. That’s a surprise. Haven’t spoken to this guy in ages. Old old friend!

8:53 AM Paul’s not been hit by the apocalyptic shit too bad; Sandy Springs is a really quiet place. I’ve been trying to explain my situation so far, with the Harlequin and Spain and all that crazy shit. Paul’s response? “DAMN! Dude, everything bad happens to you.” I.. can’t help but concur. Donnie seems to have found a computer with internet, too, so I guess we might get to stay here awhile. WHOO.

8:59 AM TVTropes looks as fun as ever. Even in the face of the end of all life as we know it, tropers remain caring and organized. I love that. ..oh my god, my thread in OTC is just filled with posts asking if “DJay’s okay.” Somebody mentioned how “there was news of a troper gathering in Blackpool falling victim to the Harlequin,” and.. hang on, right-click that, copy… New Post. Right-click, paste. [[quoteblock]] and [[/quoteblock]] bookending. Now, “The Harlequin isn’t a problem anymore.” What a dramatic entrance. :D I’m explaining most of what I can to these people. “And also, the doubletap really does help, thank you to whoever suggested that.” Explaining how quite a lot of British tropers are unfortunately no longer with us. Kay, posted my stuff. I also asked if anyone had any idea where I could go.

9:12 AM OH HEY PORN

9:13 AM “HOT Rachael-on-Rachael Action!!!” Nah, I prefer dominant women; I’ll pass. “How I Tamed A Rake With My Penis” That just looks like a guy in white latex. “ESCAPE to the UNIVERSE of ONLY NAKED WOMEN!!!” I like how it was done in the style of a B-list horror movie, but I’ve been to that universe. It wasn’t that good. “Rubbing My Balls In A Zombie’s Face” Exactly What It Says On The Tin, and as boring as it sounds. “spider cat gives eight handjobs at once” o___o I guess bestiality’s okay now that civilization’s dead. “THE WOMAN WITH TESTICLES CLICK HERE” …*clicks* “VIAGRA VIAGRA HOT SEX VIAGRA” Yeah no, we still have spam. “SLENDER MAN TOUCHES KIDS” ……that’s what he does? I can’t even tell what’s going on in this; there’s too much distortion! “KINKY SEX HERE” The video description says “help.” What is this? ..oh god. The Harlequin only made me write stuff down. I guess that’s what happens if she sees you have a video camera and internet. o_e Well, I’ll hand it to ‘em. It’s kinky. Okay, enough of that. None of that stuff was much good. I mean, the woman with testicles was interesting, but I wouldn’t fap to any of this shit.

9:25 AM ”Entry #42.” Mister Wagner kept going with Marble Hornets? Heh, I imagine he wouldn’t have much trouble making horror now.

9:30 AM Holy shit. The first minute is just Jay grabbing a shotgun and shooting the Operator in the face. Well, the lack of face. Now Tim’s in the shot. He has a knife and is wearing his mask and he’s asking to join forces, as “The Operator will be back, and in greater numbers.” ..wait, what? O_O That’s a plot twist, Tim. Now Cool Guy came in, or Blasky or Hoody or whatever you want to call him, and he said he’s totheark and they’re joining forces. Now this is a survival video log. Bastards are copying me!

9:48 AM Advertisement for “The Camper Festival.” “IT’S FREE!” “SUCH BIG NAMES AS RUSH GENESIS METALLIC DREAM THEATRE MEGADEATH MASTODON OPETH YES PINK FLOYD GENTLE GIANT KING CRIMSON and many more out there as we locate them!” The fact that they misspelled “Metallica,” “Theater” (it’s a name, so the original spelling applies universally), and “Megadeth” really annoys me. But I gotta admit, it’s a pretty damn good festival. I should go back some day before the bands revolt. The wording on the rest of the page is pretty weird, too. I take it English wasn’t their first language, whoever wrote this.

9:53 AM Still no new replies to my thread. That’s okay; I’ll check back soon.

10:27 AM I’m feeling pretty hungry. Donnie says she is, too, so.. food time!

10:45 AM FOOD, oh my god lots and lots of endless FOOOOD. Flan, crisps, soda, sausage rolls, more flan, chocolate milk efsgji0b BEER. Oh my god. Beer. Oh my god I can have the heavier stuff now. FUCK YEAAAAAAH

11:02 AM I finally stopped throwing up, oh my god. Shit, that stuff tastes horrible.

11:11 AM I WISH I HAD A GIRLFRIEND. Yep, I’m back to wishing for that. …actually, I wish we could find a great way to get as far away as possible.

11:14 AM I’m gonna take Donnie to the beach. Why? ‘Cause I feel like it. :3

11:29 AM Wow, the beach has a lot of junk all over it. Like, lookit this! What is this? It’s a stinkin’ flyer! For what? What could possibly need a flyer in the apocalypse? ..actually, this is quite good. Oh my god. It’s an advertisement for a boat going to America. June 29th, 2011. This year. In a week n’ a half. The R.M.S. Exodus. The flyer says this’ll be its last voyage; it’s never coming back. It’s in Liverpool. Fuck, that’s close.

11:37 AM I showed Donnie. She thinks, if it doesn’t crash and burn, it could be our ticket out. It could be our unicorn. I need to know how close Liverpool is. BACK TO THE CAFE!

12:01 PM Google Maps says it’ll take about fifteen hours on foot. Shit, that’s.. yes. We can do that. We can easily do that. We’ll do it tomorrow. I guess we’ll just relax today. ..I guess we need a day of relaxing.

3:45 PM Replies to thread: Only one was any help, and it was talking about “some ship” which is going to America in a week. So yeah, we pretty much hit the jackpot with that flyer. I mean, both of us wanna leave England for some reason or other. It really is perfect! I just wish it wasn’t over a week away. D:

4:38 PM IMed with Danny. Told him about the Exodus. He asked when I thought I’ll be in the States, and I told him, if the boat gets that far, probably July 4th. We’ve agreed to meet up sometime after the arrival. This’ll be pretty exciting, meeting up with an online friend! Hell, if we can do this, who knows who else we can meet up with?

9:20 PM We had dinner at a fancy restaurant. It was dinner for two. Reminded me way too much of the date with Harly. But then again, I can get over that. I hope. ^^;

10:27 PM Donnie wants to listen to Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I love that girl.

10:57 PM Noises from downstairs.

10:59 PM ZOMBIES IN THE LIVING ROOM

11:11 PM I WISH… uh.. hm. I WISH I HAD A GIRLFRIEND. There we go. :D

11:23 PM Donnie’s going to bed. I think I will, too. I mean, big journey ahead of us tomorrow. Plus, it’s fun to sleep with her. (Hahahaha… ha…)

(Attached: “The Internet Service Providers have to deal with a lot of problems in the apocalypse. At first, it was just the Neonate who wanted to take over the internet, but for reasons that will eventually become obvious he gets a little too distracted to keep that up, so the World War Web event doesn’t continue until the Ruin tries for some reason to freeze it all– was he trying to make a pun? From that day forward, the ISP starts issuing its workers flamethrowers as part of their daily protocol. The Morphs are eventually coerced by the Judge to do some catastrophic damage to the world’s servers, but amazingly enough by that point the ISPs have become the equivalent of every country’s defense budget– all remaining governments, in a series of ballsy unprecedented motions, unanimously vouch all their support and give them all the weapons and equipment they need. ISP workers go down in history as war heroes of the apocalypse, keeping watch over all humanity’s information, defending logic itself– and reason!– from otherworldly menaces. Comcast, we salute you.”)

[PREV LOG] [TABLE OF CONTENTS] [NEXT LOG]

[supersumc]

On TV Tropes, a user called NobleWolf added entries to the YMMV page for the 2023 Barbie movie:

DesignatedHero: '''The Barbies.''' At the beginning of the Film they're highly dismissive of the Kens, having them be second-class citizens and leaving them homeless, with President Barbie even dismissing them as "accessories". And when the Kens implement Partiarchy in Barbieland, they way they take back control is by employing AlphaBitch tactics, [[PsychologicalManipulation Psychologically Manipulating]] the Kens into fighting each other, then reducing them back to been second-class citizens under the flimsy justification that for as long as Patriarchy exists in the Real World, then Barbieland must be a Matriarchy. And the Film seems to run with the idea that [[InsaneTrollLogic so long as Men hold any positions of power, that Patriarchy exists]]

* RootingForTheEmpire: Despite the radical masculinist ideologies of the Ken rebellion, the haughtiness of most Barbieland matriarchy led to some cheering for Ken and his supporters performing a coup to oust the Barbieland government.

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: The Barbies, as described under DesignatedHero above, are highly dismissive of the Kens, denying them equal rights, housing and even any sort of respect, so it's a bit hard to feel sorry for them when the Kens take over and force them into subservient roles ** Stereotypical Barbie also falls under this, as a lot of trouble Stereotypical Ken causes [[CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot could've been avoided]] have she simply shown him enough respect to have an honest discussion about their relationship with him from the beginning

Another user called Bullman deleted those entries, claiming that the Barbies had learned their lesson, but NobleWolf added the entries back with this message:

While the Barbies treatment of the Kens is initially treated as wrong, at the end things are reverted back to how they were at the beginning of the film, and present as been "a good and happy ending", it also changes nothing about how the film treats Men in general throughout the film

The problem is that they didn't discuss this in the Designate Hero/Villain Cleanup thread. A mod called MacronNotes was PM'd, and instantly bounced NobleWolf. What's worse, this happened right after NobleWold was released from a previous ban, so they couldn't appeal.

Apparently, it didn't occur to the mods that NobleWolf might not have even known that there was a Designated Hero/Villain Cleanup Thread. Could you start an Ask the Tropers, invite all the mods (and Bullman), and point out to them that, instead of bouncing them, they should have just directed NobleWolf to the Designated Hero/Villain Cleanup Thread to plead their case if they thought that the Barbies qualified as Designated Heroes? Tell them that you're not trying to appeal a ban but simply pointing out a potential alternate solution that the mods could have tried.

For the record, no, I am not NobleWolf; I'm just pointing something out for them. NobleWolf didn't put me up to this, either; I'm doing all this on my own accord.

I'm still much too green on that site to get involved in its politics. I know it would be the right thing to do, but 1) I haven't seen the Barbie Movie (or Oppenheimer for that matter), and 2) there might be more going on here than either you or I am aware of and I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth, especially considering NobleWolf's prior ban. (Fun fact about myself: I can put my foot in my mouth, literally. I don't want to do it figuratively, though. I've had plenty of experience with the latter to know when not to intervene by now, even if it seems like the right thing to do. Not my circus, not my monkeys, and not my clowns, either.)

[gameguy20100]

TV Tropes has a Contact Us function that lets you send emails to the staff, and a month and two days ago (September 20, 2023), I sent an email to a mods, but so far, I've heard nothing back. Could you start an Ask the Tropers and explain this problem? Hopefully, the mods will notice and answer.

I don't know how to do that. Sorry.

[bottlepiecemuses]

I used to be a user on TV Tropes, but a few years back, I was banned for something that wasn't my fault.  Here are the details:

I was a frequent contributor to the Complete Monster forum, but one day, we started talking about some seasons of Kamen Rider that had no Complete Monsters, and another user said that there were more.  I asked which ones, but before the user could answer, my post was thumped, and a third user told me to stop asking pointless questions, which confused me greatly.  I tried to clarify that I'd been responding to the last post, but the third user must have thought I was talking back, and they hollered the mods.

Now I'm unable to participate in forums (that also includes the Edit Banned/Suspended thread, so I can't appeal my ban), edit or create pages, read, send, or get messages, write reviews, upload videos, or use the Wishlist, Ask the Tropers, Trope Finder, You Know that Show, the Trope Launch Pad, the Cut List, or Submit a Bug.  Worse yet, I can't even change the email address I'm using on my account, and whenever I try to use it to create another account, I get a message saying, "This email address is already in use.  Please try another".  I'd delete my account if I could, but that will only make my account permanently inaccessible, so I'll still not be able to use my email address for another account.  The Contact Us function is useless to me as well because the only people who can respond to email messages are the mods and the staff, and they will not respond to my messages.  None of this would be a problem if I had access to another email address, but I don't.

Fortunately, I remember the (user)names of some people who use the site: ACW, Lightysnake, and TheMadCr0w.  If you really want to help me with my problem, it might be in your best interests to follow everything that I say below to the letter. Here's what I'd like you to do:

First, go to the mods of TV Tropes and ask them if it's possible to unthump a post on a forum.  If they say yes, ask them to unthump Post 23 of Page 6082 (and Post 152048 of the thread as a whole) of the Complete Monster thread.  Tell the mods nothing of our conversation, my involvement in this matter, or of your plans to tell other Tropers to compare any posts.

If the mods unthump the post, contact (in this specific order) ACW, Lightysnake, and TheMadCr0w.  Send each of them a message that lets them know you have a few things to tell them and tell them to follow your instructions to the letter.  If they respond, tell each of them that Post 152048 of the Complete Monster thread has been unthumped, and ask them to compare it with the previous post to see how they actually relate, and then ask the mods for their input.  Tell none of them anything of our conversation on Tumblr or my involvement in this matter, but do tell them to tell the mods nothing of your involvement in this matter.  Inform each one of them that you're contacting the other two and that they should send messages to each other as often as possible and make sure they cooperate.  After that, keep an eye on Ask the Tropers in case a conversation arises.  If it does come up, take part in the conversation so that (in case it's made private) you can tell me what was said.  (I don't want you to make an Ask the Tropers yourself; I just want you to look out for one.)

Remember to tell me exactly what you tell the mods and each user, and tell those users to tell you exactly what they send to the mods (and each other).  Don't forget to tell me exactly how they respond, and don't forget tell each user to tell you exactly how the mods respond.

PS: There does exist a user called Lightysnake; they've just not made a Tropers page.  If you want proof, here's a little link.

The mods are stubborn assholes and won't listen.

[pyjamaart]

If you go on Youtube right now and search for the Megaman Fully Charged episode "This is not a drill" (uploaded by El_Cut) you will see a comment under the video. The comment says "i felt so bad for drillman the entire series. sad that he never got his redemption in the end, with the series being cancelled. also nice move by dr. light. "surely glueing drillman and his abusive father together will help them solve all their problems" what the hell. im so angry im actually about to draw fanart of dr. light beating up drillman senior. i have issues."

You will never guess who wrote that.

But seriously now. That episode genuinely made me mad. My headcanon is that Dr. Light didn't know the reason Drillman and his father were fighting in the first place. I'm pretty sure once Aki tells him "Oh yeah, his father basically ripped his arms off against his will and destroyed his hopes and dreams", he'll feel pretty bad for the things he did in the episode. Dr. Light in Fully Charged seemed like a really good dad to Aki and Suna, so I'm a hundred percent sure once he hears about the families past, he would want to have a "talk" with Drillman Senior.

This was also partially inspired by the Megaman Fully Charged WMG page on TvTropes, where a troper wrote the following:

"Drill Man’s father will appear on the show." (This was written before the episode aired) "He’ll be a part of Drill Man’s redemption arc, in facing his past demons. His selfishness and lack of understanding, will peeve Dr Light off, to blow him away with a big "Reason You Suck" Speech, to where Aki and Suna or someone else will have to restrain him from going berserk on him, giving him a long overdue Jerkass Realization and make things right with his son."

Two things about this though. The thought of "Dr. Light going berserk on him" was so god damn funny to me. Like Dr. Light, the eternal pacifist, being so pissed off at Drillman Senior for how he treated (and treats) his son that he actually beats the shit out of him.

But then there's the "make things right with his son". You know, speaking from experience, sometimes it's just better to cut toxic people out of your life for good. Even if they're family members. And Drillmans father did not strike me as a person who would try to make things right just because someone called him out on his shitty behavior.

I'm deciding right now that Drillman will just become Aki and Sunas honorary big brother. Found family trope my beloved.

[druidgroves]

On January 27, 2021, I sent a problem concerning TV Tropes to another Tumblr user, and they sent it to Ask the Tropers. Unfortunately, the conversation was nuked before I could read it, and I have no idea what was said. Fortunately, I know the name of one participant: TheMadCr0w. Could you contact them, ask them what the problem was, and then ask them if they have screenshots of the conversation? If they do, could you ask for them? Afterward, could you post the screenshots on this blog so I can read them and find out what was said in the conversation?

ah. forgot about this anon.

no, i will not do that.

[cerastes]

is TvTropes that bad?

The site's utility and objective isn't bad, the userbase is.

It's a situation comparable (but ultimately different) to Cinemasins: While Cinemasins sucks and its fervent viewers suck, TvTropes in and of itself is not bad at all, I personally think it's a fun and interesting place to read about media you enjoy, the problem comes when people take it as end-all dictionary to fiction and start using the terminology found in the website as THE terminology to use when discussing media. Some of the terms used in TvTropes are in fact the terms pretty much everyone uses (general things like "tsundere" or "groundhog loop" or "jumped the shark", for example), while others are very much exclusive to TvTropes and thus not apt for widespread discussion without appropriate elaboration or, in some cases, just not useful at all outside of the site's microcosm ("Crowning Moment of Awesome").

The userbase is ok nowadays and people that speak in tropes are far more contained than before, because believe me when I say there used to be a special breed of people that would really use "Crowning Moment of Awesome" to refer to something slightly out of the regular in their lives like brushing their arm against a girl's or something. The most disastrous was when the site was FAR less moderated and you had people putting personal anecdotes into what was supposed to be a web resources for tropes of shows like "In episode 61, Goku punches Cell in the dick and sends him flying through a rock, much like This Troper (hyperlinked to their profile in the site) once hit a mean boy that said something ugly to her friend in highschool. Of course, he wasn't sent flying but he did end up bleeding in the ground, learning to never mess with her or her friend" which was, pardon the expression, cringeworthy enough to make me prefer being eviscerated by a Vietcong spike trap if I had to choose between that and meeting them in person.

You still get some specimens that talk in tropes here and there but it's simmered down a lot. I must remark once again that I think the site itself is a good timesink, especially to read about trivia about your favorite shows and games.

[acealistair]

On January 27 of this year, I sent a problem concerning TV Tropes to another Tumblr user called bootsforthebootgod. The user then used their TV Tropes account, Boots, to send the message to Ask the Tropers. Unfortunately, the conversation was nuked before I could read it, so I have no idea what was said.

Boots appears to believe the problem has been resolved, but it isn't. I'm still unable to participate in forums, edit or create pages, read, send, or get messages, write reviews, upload videos, or use the Wishlist, Ask the Tropers, You Know that Show, the Trope Launch Pad, the Cut List, or Submit a Bug. Because I never had a chance to read the conversation, I have no idea why nothing was done, or if anyone even tried to do anything.  I had another Tumblr user tell Boots all of that, but apparently, Boots never read the full message, because they're still not helping me.  Could you go to TV Tropes and ask Boots to 1.) look for a message dated no later than October 11, 2.) read the message, and 3.) tell you what the problem was and how the conversation went? After that, could you tell me the response, so I can find out what went wrong, and what to do?  (Ask for all the details of the problem and the conversation and specify that I want to know all of the posts in the conversation.  Also, tell them to answer publicly.  If the need arises, I'll send you a link to where the conversation ought to be.)

Okay, I don't want to come across as insensitive or mean, but I'm going to be very honest: this is a weird thing to ask me to do and I'm not going to do it. Normally I wouldn't publish a message like this, but I don't really have a choice since you're on anon.

I'm assuming we don't know each other because you're asking this anonymously, which is a red flag. That's not an invitation for you to message me off-anon, however. As I mentioned, I'm not involved in the TV Tropes community, I don't know this Boots person, and don't really have a desire to use my free time to get involved in drama.

I don't know exactly how the site or its management works but it sounds like a problem to take to them. Hope you're able to figure things out.

[nokingsonlyfooles]

The Dark Secret of Zootopia? (Part 2, "Work twice as hard for half as much!")

Welcome back! We're still talking about how Zootopia swung for the fences with its racism metaphor and probably didn't manage much more than hitting itself in the face! We've already talked about how hard it is to get people to unpack their own biases. Today's subject is the bunny who thought "standing up for the little guy" meant becoming a cop.

(Oh, Judy, hon, no. I know you're a bit sheltered and conservative, and your family seems to be doing some kinda culty Quiverfull thing, but no.)

To understand how this movie - which started out as a dark dystopia where every predator wore systemic oppression around their neck - missed the target so badly with Judy's story, we gotta look at something else that was still going strong in 2016, when Zootopia came out.

If you need to see more on how the myth of Black excellence applies to President Drone Strikes O'Flint Water specifically, F. D. Signifier has an informative series of videos on the subject. Among other things, the idea of "Black excellence" suggests that systemic oppression can (and should) be fought on an individual basis. To do so, one must expect to "work twice as hard to get half as much." This isn't parsed as something unfair that needs to be changed, but just a fact of life that you'll have to deal with to get anywhere.

...And once you've achieved your dreams, you've proven it can be done! If someone wants this badly enough, they can do it. Period. So nobody else has an excuse for not grinding themselves into a paste to tackle the same unfair system you've beaten. (Assuming you wanted it badly enough to beat that system yourself.)

People who are learning a physically and mentally demanding new job don't need to, like, sleep, do they? Sleep is a luxury for those privileged folks we expect to be good cops. Not for a tiny prey species who needs to prove she can make it in the big city and take out animals ten times her size in all terrains, just so they can shunt her into meter maid duty because they never wanted her in the first place.

A troper notes (on the Heartwarming moments page, because people have a real hard time unpacking their biases, especially when they see them as a metaphor with plausible deniability)

Ha-ha, yeah. They knew they were getting a bunny cop and they knew exactly where they wanted to put her. Well, she can't do too much damage as a meter maid!

"All right, we're getting an obvious political 'affirmative action' hire in a few weeks. Will someone requisition me the most ridiculous car on the continent, so we can quietly fire her and get back to doing real work?"

Meanwhile:

"Oh, your coworker slammed your ears in the door of a vehicle that's ten times too big to be safe for you? That sounds like a YOU problem. You're DEAD, Carrot Cake!"

"You're dead, Carrot Cake" is from the actual film. Let's remove the cartoon metaphor and take a look at that. Species = race, broadly. So if Judy were the only Latinx police recruit, how cute and funny would it be to call her, "Pinto Bean"? And there are even worse possible contexts! How does "You're dead, Watermelon" sound to you? Should a Black recruit be required to shake that off and keep training, or should somebody at least complain to HR? (Is that "AR" in this context...?)

"Yes, sir, I did force the bunny recruit to box a rhinoceros and then yell at her for incurring evident head trauma, but, ya see, when she figured out how to scale a wall of solid ice with no accommodations for her size, I smiled approvingly!"

"...So we're good, right?"

This is all played utterly straight. This is a full-on Rocky Balboa training montage, with the polar bear teacher as Burgess Meredith. The transitions are fast, and we don't slow down long enough to consider Judy's feelings until she's starting her new job and she politely asks Clawhauser not to call her "cute."

We don't turn around and examine the fact that her polar bear teacher was hammering the "cute" button pretty hard too, and Judy never spoke up and asked to be respected. One doesn't, as a rule, talk back to an antagonist who can invalidate one out of one's dream job, so that's reasonable behavior from Miss Hopps. But the movie doesn't have time to hammer home that context. No, you see, Judy wasn't very good at policing, and the polar bear was a tough-but-fair mentor who was obviously rooting for her the whole time (that smile!) and motivated her to do better. Now, back to the plot!

The one moment we pause and showcase how broken Judy is by her unfair treatment is in the bathroom...

And it's for a gag. (And foreshadowing a later toilet escape.) Ha-ha, the polar bear teacher is there to remind her that not being able to use a swimming-pool-sized toilet is a YOU problem too. My god, we don't even get one of these white saviour moments!

"Everyone pees the same size!"

Just, "Filthy toilet! You're dead!" If you wanna be a cop, you better learn to piss while crouched on the edge of an above-ground pool, 'cos we're not even gonna offer you a toilet seat in your size. And, no, we will not address how unfair that is!

There are people existing in real-life who get frozen out of certain careers because the equipment doesn't come in their size. (There's a Guardian article in there and they don't always cover gender in good faith, but there are a bunch of in-line citations in it. Just tread carefully.) In most cases, we call them "women." And when their lives are being put at risk and their jobs being made impossible, we also tell them to "girl boss" up and do it anyway. These jobs have certain physical requirements (even if that requirement is something artificial and totally nonsensical like "have hands in glove size medium or larger, 'cos we ain't got any small") and you'll have to meet them somehow!

I gotta tell you folks, police work is mostly clerical work, and when they do get into a physical altercation, they do not fight fair.

Do you need a citation for that? You're living on the same planet I am, and you are on the internet right now. If you don't buy that a police officer in an altercation with a rhino wouldn't be engaging on level ground with Marquis of Queensbury fighting rules, I can't convince you.

In real life, Judy would have a nightstick, a gun, a taser (which she could conveniently get mixed up with the aforementioned gun), a non-comical car, and backup. In fact, her fellow cop yells at her not to continue a pursuit on foot and to wait for backup when she goes after Weaselton and his "moldy onions."

"Also, you're entering what appears to be a sized-based ghetto with its own police force! WTF, Officer Hopps?!"

Nick Angel isn't the standard to which all cops should aspire, he's a bit of an arsehole who needs to learn how to switch off.

(Also, if you see someone shoplifting food... no you fucking well didn't. Bad form, Nick.)

The only point to making Judy jump through all those hoops for the privilege of writing parking tickets is to get her to quit. Assigning her meter maid duty, and then putting her on an investigation when she can't even get license plate information out of the computers (and giving her 48 hours to solve a case that's been ongoing for months!) is also meant to get her to quit. Nick doesn't come from a bunny-majority town...

(Seriously, there is some cult-like activity going on here. There are bunny parents in the city with only one kid, this does not seem normal in-universe.)

...and he's more used to being marginalized, so he sees it right away. He calls out Bogo's bullshit and gets more time for Judy to complete an unreasonable task - and she pulls it off. Even the shitty chief who was trying to get her fired has to sit up and respect her after that!

"Wow, I'm impressed!"

Ultimately, that's the problem. But that's where our collective American brain was when this movie was being made.

We had a solid eight years there where we thought racism was over because we finally had a Black President. We also had a constant, low-grade anxiety about all the indications that this was clearly not the case, but we were able to ignore them. It seemed kinda rude to do anything other than ignore them. Obama worked so hard, and so many people were still trying to hold him to an unfair standard. Couldn't we just let him do a few war crimes like every other American President?

We could and we did, but then we had a racist backlash that made Obama's worst excesses look like a walk in the park. And many (not anywhere near all) of us have been motivated to unpack how broken the system is, and look at the past a little more critically.

But in early 2016? No way! We had a Black guy in the White House, and we were gonna get a WOMAN in the White House (for sure!) and everything was gonna be fine. Oh, thank goodness those rugged individuals were able to smash through the glass ceiling, so it would stay broken forever. That's what glass does! It was a good, simple optimistic story - like Hamilton!

...and something obvious and easy to fall back on when the Nick-centred, darker story didn't seem to be working out. Racism is real (and that's hard enough for the audience to grasp, so let's back off a little), but a few determined individuals can fix it for everyone. All you have to do is keep Trying! You can Try Everything! You might fall down (or be pushed, or have your body parts slammed in a car door) but you can get back up and win!

Even in the dark version, in the end, Nick and Judy get rid of the "tame" collars. I posit that the only reason Disney felt safe making a movie about racism in the first place was that at the time, we honestly thought racism could be solved - and we're solving it right now! Quick! Animate that message with funny animals so we can tell the kids!

We don't need to see Nick training to be a cop! I'm sure it's fine. Judy took out the bias ahead of him. Hilary won't have any trouble getting into the White House. It's fine now. It's FINE.

Months later, we got a big, orange clue-by-four that was impossible to ignore, but Zootopia was already on its way to a video release in time for Christmas. Its hope and optimism stands cluelessly to this day. And if you're not ready to think about racism as a complex, systemic issue (or at ALL) it won't make you.

So! Do you want more on this? "Like" and reblog if you want more, 'cos I can give you way more. Next time, if you want, we can talk about this stuff:

(WTFox?!)

...and the good and bad of how the narrative dealt with it.

[skiddlecat]

A while ago, I sent a problem concerning TV Tropes to a Tumblr user called bootsforthebootgod, and they used their TV Tropes account, Boots, to send the problem to Ask the Tropers.  Unfortunately, the conversation was nuked before I could read it, so I have no idea what was said.

Boots believes that the problem is resolved, but it's not! I'm still unable to participate in forums (that also includes the Edit Banned/Suspended thread), edit or create pages, read, send, or get messages, write reviews, upload videos, or use the Wishlist, Ask the Tropers, Trope Finder, You Know that Show, the Trope Launch Pad, the Cut List, or Submit a Bug.  Worse yet, I can't even change the email address I'm using on my account, so I can't create another account.  Because I never had a chance to read the conversation, I have no idea why nothing was done, or if anyone even tried to do anything.  I'd delete my account if I could, but that will only make my account permanently inaccessible, so I'll still not be able to use my email address for another account.  The Contact Us function is useless to me as well because the only people who can respond to email messages are the mods and the staff, and they will not respond to my messages.  None of this would be a problem if I had access to another email address, but I don't.

Want to know the worst part?  I've had people tell all this to Boots, but Boots keeps insisting the problem is resolved.  I don't know what they mean (or think they mean) when they say that, but their definition of "resolved" is clearly not the same as mine.  I'm starting to suspect that they didn't even actually read the message; they probably read only "the problem has not been resolved" and automatically assumed I haven't actually tried using my account.  Worse yet, Boots seems to think I want them to appeal a ban, but I don't; all I want is to know how the conversation went so I can find out what went wrong and what to do.  By not telling me how the conversation went, they are only worsening my problem!  Could you contact Boots on their TV Tropes account or on their Tumblr account, bootsforthebootgod?  If you have to, ping them on Tumblr and tell them to actually read this whole message, or better yet, go to their inbox (I could submit the link to you so you can go straight from there) and send them this message (preferably on mobile).  You can even DM them.  Have them know that this message is urgent and that they should leave not a single word of it unread.  I want them to properly understand my problem and help me to solve it.  Could you tell them to send you screenshots of the conversation (every single post), and then, could you post it on your blog so I can read it and know what to do?  (If I have to, I'll even send you a link to the conversation.  That way, you could send it to Boots so they'll know what you're talking about.)

...buddy by "i have a tv tropes account" i meant i created one to edit exactly two pages of tv tropes to add oneshot to them. i have autism, and it is exactly 7:58 in the morning at the time of writing this, i don't have the attention span to read all of this nor do i think i'm the person you should go to for this