#trauma shapes actions much easier than reason

[aloneonceagainaspredicted]

We can't forget the fact that humanity does suck repeatedly, in all timelines but also very openly in the First Class one.

Erik's mother was killed by a nazi when he was a boy, and by that time he had no idea of Shaw's mutant status, but we can't minimize the scars left by the holocaust; Erik also becomes a nazi hunter, so he's constantly entrenched amongst the worst pieces of shit all around the world.

Cuba's also a catastrophe because those missiles 100% were going to kill the mutants that fought for humanity which was exactly what Erik thought was going to happen (as he discussed it with Charles the night before in their chess-fucking routine) and fast-forwarding to DOFP, we get the knowledge that anti-mutant sentiment has become an active Thing™, that Trask has built insanely enormous robots to EXTERMINATE MUTANTS? And that most of Erik's Brotherhood has been experimented on or killed off.

It might look contradictory for Erik to hate humans so much, but the fact is that even when Erik does find selected humans that he connects with and eventually lets his guard down, being a mutant never stops making him Dangerous. Humanity has seen what he's capable of, and his record will forever follow him. Which fucks up a person and their willingness to conform.

And honestly, isn't it the whole point of Erik and Charles that they're soooooo messed up? Like, Charles's insistence on the pacifist route is at the bare minimum negligent and Erik's way is Karma's A Bitch (And That Bitch Is Me) and that's why these idiots keep clashing, it's fun! :D

i know Erik is always on his usual anti-human bullshit as usual, but has anyone ever sat him down and been like "a mutant killed your powerless human mother. Maybe you're fighting the wrong side, dear"

Like, in first class his whole beef is with Shaw, the mutant. And yet he's arguing every minute with Charles about humans being awful.

[queenwille]

are you pro-israel/anti-palestine?

hi, first, i appreciate you asking very politely and not assuming things.

i’ll say i’m a zionist, which isn’t an offensive word. i believe in the right of the jewish people for self determination in the form of a jewish state in the land of israel, the promised land of the jewish people.

i find calling israel, the only jewish state in a sea of muslim/christian states, an “ethostate” and mocking the jews for feeling the need in one, as very antisemitic rude and offensive. that goes without mentioning how ignorant and rude it is to claim all jews are white europeans. literally cancelling the whole rich history of the jewish people in the arab countries (which they were mostly chased out of as well).

the need to live within your given or chosen community is such a natural thing, even animals do it. for some reason, when it comes to israel and the jews, it’s wrong. before anyone starts, please let me remind you that within this very large jewish community, there are 2.5 million arabs (mostly muslim, some christian). they share equal rights, a citizenship and an israeli ID/passport. yes, even the sister of the top hamas man (who was arrested this week for having documents and money linked to hamas, a terror organization).

that being said, i am in no shape or form, nor never was i, anti palestine. i think it’s just not as simple as some people who joined the hot trend across the world see it. the state of palestine was never established for many reasons that don’t involve the jewish people. i do mean this when i say i do wish the palestinian people a safe and established land, but it’s simply not that easy. it really isn’t no israel=yes palestine. they have so many other needs other than demolishing the land of israel. their inner conflicts are very much alive to this day (google fatah/hamas conflict), their lack of actual support from neighboring countries and other reasons they have there. they’re really not at a good starting point, but no one ever talks of that. it’s just easier to masturbate to the idea that protesting in favor of demolishing israel and sending +-7,000,000 jews to fuck knows where will be enough.

let me make it clear, the fact that civilians are being killed and hurt breaks my heart. i say this knowing fully well that many took part in the oct7 massacre. generations, on both sides, being brought up with nothing but hate and fear of each other boiled up to this disaster. which is why i find the whole western pro pal movement, spreading fake news and hate and deepening the conflict, as not just offensive, but also very dangerous. for both sides (+diaspora jews). calling hamas freedom fighters and not the terror organization that they are is as dangerous to the palestinians as as it is dangerous to israelis/jews. they are given actual legitimacy for actions that are considered extremist and terror on an international level. yes, they do hide in UN protected facilities, using inocentes as human shields. and when we say the west is next, it’s not just a spicy slogan, it’s not really about the jews, but the western culture.

i am very angry of the way the hostages are being ignored or bluntly canceled (ripping off their posters everywhere). it’s hypocritical and very upsetting. i will also mention that i seriously don’t appreciate using the jewish holocaust and appropriating it’s terms and the well known generational jewish trauma and mocking it.

lastly, i would like to mention that a lot of what’s happening right now around the world just proves the need in a jewish state. being close with an army that’s main goal is protecting its people literally feels safer for jews even under missiles and terror attacks. let me inform you that the main reason that israeli casualties are lower, is the invention of the Iron Dome, operated by the IDF. It has saved thousands of civilian lives since it’s first use. no, it wasn’t hamas’ more humane ways or idk what i read. israel literally spends every last dime to keep it’s people safe, while hamas won’t even let the palestinian people have a safe hospital. instead of mocking our worries and constant feeling of being persecuted and in danger, to the point that a jewish state feels like a life or death matter, maybe try to think what you can do to change that. saying we’re delusional or closing mouths when we claim for antisemitism isn’t helping, and it sure isn’t what’s currently happening in the world and social media.

again, thanks for asking. i have so much more to say and that’s before actually going into current antisemitism or even into october 7th, i just think i’ll stop here for now. i hope this somewhat answers your question.

[polarisbibliotheque]

Hii!! so i just want to say first that i love love the way you write dmc fanfics. The way you just understand them, makes all their action seem like something they'd do. And well, if it doesn't bother you, may I ask a few advices on how to write Vergil, young and current? I'm trying to write a story and I think your input would be very helpful since you're probably the most accurate Vergil writer there is. Thank you andI just want to say that your fics helped me out a lot mentally. Thank you for bringing the characters to life 🫶

You just left me floored, loved to death, giggling like a 7 year old in public, and I thank you wholeheartedly for that 🖤🖤

First of all, thank you SO much for your words - and wow, I am absurdly flattered that you think so highly of me as a writer, really! I mean, I'm just writing my crazy shenanigans here, I don't expect much hahahaha words like yours make my day and, honestly, you made my whole week!

I am SO happy what I write helped you mentally. I do write to help myself in that regard too, and seeing I was able to have an impact on someone else, it makes everything worth it. That's what Dante would have wanted :')

Asking me for advice doesn't bother me AT ALL! Feel free to ask anytime you want it - by all means I see myself as someone so good as to give advice, but I've gained some experience and it's always good to share! Maybe I'll say something that makes sense to you!

So, without further ado, a few advices on writing Vergil - young and current - down the cut 'cause I haven't written it yet, but knowing myself, I know it's gonna be big :)

(spoiler: it's huge *puts on fool hat and jingles away*)

I sprinkled some things here and there about Dante and Vergil on this blog, but I think it'll be nice putting it all together in one place!

I recently got an ask about which MBTI personality I think it's Dante and Vergil, and there's a LOT on BOTH of their characters in there. You can find it here.

(I won't repeat the things I wrote there, 'cause oh boy this one's got bigger than I expected)

But oh, Verge, this little emotionally constipated goth man *sighs* he's Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. I'm not even joking.

But all of that aside, I do keep a few things in mind when writing him. I've said before I have many similar personality traits with him and I think it makes it easier for me to write this little bitch (affectionate).

Vergil is pretty much shaped by his trauma. You could argue Dante is as well, but differently from his twin brother, Vergil never really found acceptance. Yes, the twins lived through the same thing but the fact that Eva managed to save Dante and not Vergil is crucial to both characters.

Dante has survivor's guilt and depression from all that happened. He can't keep a deep connection to save his life, 'cause he keeps everyone at bay - he thinks his demonic blood is a curse and he is the reason everyone perishes. So it's best if people keep away from him.

But even with that, Dante loves being around people. It's what makes him so fond of his human part and, in my opinion, it's what made Dante healthier than Vergil. He seeks connection and humanity, he wants to use his strength to protect the weak - like Eva once used hers and sacrificed herself to protect and save him. That is crucial to Dante's character.

Vergil, in the other hand, believed for a LONG time he was left for dead. That his mother chose to save his brother because she loved Dante more and Vergil was left to die. He was left all alone in the cold, in a cemetery filled with demons who slaughtered him in quite a gruesome manner. If he hadn't find the rage, strength and power inside of himself that day, he wouldn't have survived.

Vergil learned he is on his own, his own family didn't love him (even if he was wrong, that's the impression he had for a LONG time) and the only one he could count on was himself. That made him withdraw completely: be wary of people and their intentions, shut himself to the world, allow only strength and power to come through his personality and keep his vulnerabilities and feelings shut down in the darkest and most protected place of himself because if he didn't, that could be his death.

Vergil didn't learn to protect the weak, because he wasn't protected when he was weak. He learned to survive, because when he needed the most, no one was there and his own will was the only thing that could save him. If he had given up, he would've died - no one would come, no knight in shiny armor, no powerful protecting demon, no sacrificing loving human mother.

✨That's why he's an asshole✨

Hahahaha jokes aside, that's why he's so laser focused on power, I think. When he was younger (around DMC 3), he finds Dante again and there's a hatred for his brother because he believed he was left to die and wasn't loved as much as Dante (as always, our red devil being a clueless himbo who just got lucky to be around Eva, poor guy). He wants to prove he is better than Dante, that he was worth something, that he too was worth saving - even more than his brother.

To some extent, up until that moment in DMC 3, Vergil is better than Dante (regarding power). He's got a lot of knowledge and control over his demonic heritage, things Dante didn't even know he could do. But Vergil is so blinded by his hurt and in so much pain he can only deem himself worthy if he beats Dante down, if he wins, if he gets all the power in the world.

I don't think he ever wanted to kill Dante - he just wanted to win. Like a kid, going "see, mom, dad, I win, I'm worth as much as Dante!!" - quite tragic, really.

With his power thing, it's not a desire for power for it's own sake, but as an armor. Given everything that happened to him, that Vergil has this thing of "only I can protect myself and I can count only on myself to save my life", it's very understandable that his logic takes him to the path of "if I am the most powerful being in this world, I will never bleed and I will never hurt again".

So, even if he says on the outside he is power hungry because he wants to honor his demonic heritage and humans are weak, on the inside it's actually that he's trying to carve his heart out from himself so he won't feel nothing and stop hurting - as well as gain all the power he can so NO ONE can make him feel scared, vulnerable, weak and powerless like he did that night when no one appeared to help him.

Vergil hides his pain under a mask of cruelty and hubris - since being honest means being vulnerable to him and that is something he's got a deep aversion to.

Current Verge has dragged himself out of Hell in a crumbling body. If Dante hadn't "killed" him as Nelo Angelo, he probably would've never been free of his shackles with Mundus, but once again he was left for dead (even if not intentionally, I know Dante would have gone through all the layers of Hell to bring his brother back, but VERGIL doesn't know that). Once again, Vergil had to muster all his will, his power, his demonic heritage to drag himself out of that godforsaken place.

He didn't know Nero was his son, he just took Yamato back 'cause he didn't really had time to explain everything that was going on. Vergil was on the brink of death, it's not like he could think logically about everything he was doing and weight pros and cons. He needed to survive. That's what he does.

It's only when he separated his human and demon parts that he came to realize a bunch of things - because Vergil never really had time to do anything else other than surviving; and thinking too much, going over your feelings and past trauma, doesn't do anything good when you're stuck in survival mode (been there, done that).

After he gets both of his parts together and goes back to being Vergil, he knows a lot more than he did before, because V allowed his heart to feel and to process all that pain he didn't allow himself to process before - because if he did, he would probably break, like V himself was falling to pieces.

He knows his mother loved him. He knows it wasn't Dante's fault. He knows it was all a tragedy and no one is to blame - he knows he wasn't left there to die: Eva died trying to get to him. It honestly changes everything he's been thinking for the past 40 (if I'm not wrong...?) years.

That's why he wonders, if he was in Dante's place all those years ago, would that change something? And honestly, it probably would. Because everything Vergil did was from a wound he couldn't bring himself to heal from that fateful night.

Therefore, current Vergil is a lot more accepting to his feelings - but internally only, he won't let it show. He also understands his thing of wanting to surpass Dante wasn't his brother's fault and it's something he has to work on.

Not saying he won't be a little bitch sparring with Dante all the time and keeping score over stupid stuff, because that's EXACTLY how these two function - but now Vergil is fueled by healthy sibling rivalry and fun instead of inferiority complex and pain/hatred.

Vergil's path is a lot similar to Anakin from Star Wars: fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to the Dark Side of the Force. If the Jedi Council had understood Anakin's upbringing as a slave, his deep love for his mother - and for all the beings on the Universe, I argue, because he did want to become a Jedi to free all slaves - his overflowing empathy, his deep feelings, his love for Padmé, etc., Anakin wouldn't find himself vulnerable to the grooming of an older man who saw all this and took the opportunity to twist it all to make him feel pain, fear, anger and hate.

If Qui-Gon Jin had trained Anakin he would've never turned to the Dark Side, I will DIE on this hill and fight EVERYONE, even if I love Obi-Wan

Star Wars ramblings aside, that's Vergil in a nutshell. And I think with him older, currently, he can finally see all of that, because he had a chance to be just demonic, as Urizen, and just human, as V - noticing how everything that happened to him shaped him to feel pain, fear, anger and hate, doing desperate things to protect himself and feel safe.

I argue Vergil hasn't felt safe for a single day in his whole lifetime, and that matters. Because in the end, that's how I write him: a wounded stray dog who knows only pain and hatred from the outside world.

If you try to approach him, he'll first bare his teeth, bark and try to bite you - not because he's mean, but because he's stuck in survival mode and that's his first response to ANYTHING. Just like a wounded stray, you have to approach carefully, offer kindness and show him you're not there to hurt him.

And just like a stray dog, he'll eventually melt and accept that kindness - he just has NO IDEA how that feels like.

✨What about Nero's mother, I hear you ask?✨

Hahahaha so that one I have some doubts myself. I often imagine two scenarios and I still haven't chose one of them to satisfy my heart HAHAHAHA

That might be me projecting, of course, but because of ALL THAT, I don't see Vergil as being open to relationships and one night stands - he takes things too seriously, and that's part of his character.

He either decided to try it out empirically with a one night stand with someone who was kind to him and he wanted to understand that kind of experience to understand himself better and out of curiosity (look, I know this sounds crazy, but that's exactly what I did on my first kiss with a super random guy at a party and I was like "oh, well, that's not for me, I'm gonna stick to kissing people I love, this sucks" and it took a weight off my shoulders)

oooooor he was treated with kindness for the first time in his life and that broke him for a while, he melted under a soft touch and gentle words and couldn't resist trying out new experiences he only had by proxy from his books - and when he woke up next morning, he was reminded how broken he is, how powerless, how not worthy of love not even from his own mother, and left because that would lead to nowhere. Because of him. Because he wasn't worth it - she probably fell for his looks, his heritage, his outside, but when she knew his inside she would run in horror.

Again, Vergil has a lot of issues, the poor man.

When I'm writing Nemesis, we have young Vergil - laser focused on power, proud as fuck, stepping over anything and everything to get what he wants, because life favors the ones who survive. The weak ones should die, that's the law of the jungle and he won't waste his time saving those who can't do it for themselves like he did for himself. When he sees the reader struggling to keep fighting him to protect others, he sees not only Eva, but himself in a will of a survivor who will go through excruciating pain to save themselves. He values that and admires that - admiring the reader as an enemy and having utmost respect.

When he's older, he's trying. And he has a LOT to learn - but his partner has to understand he's the stray dog who knows nothing but harshness. Vergil is quiet, methodical and disciplined, knowing how to live only with himself as company. But now he has a family: he has his brother back, he has a son, he has the whole crew to live alongside him. That's new, harrowing and comforting at the same time.

So, when in doubt, think about how a wounded animal would react - and how you would have to act to be able to approach and help.

Vergil, differently from Dante, is forever stuck in survival mode and has forsaken his humanity so he could keep going. As a younger man, he's ruthless and won't spare efforts to get what he wants because he is desperately trying to not feel vulnerable and worthless as he usually feels. As an older man, he's trying - in his own stupid Mr. Darcy way - to recover, to understand himself better and finally heal that horrible wound in his heart.

But of course. He is still proud, observing, regal and prone to overkill here and there and showing off his skills. These are all inherent to his personality.

(Also. Vergil enjoys some dumb fun sometimes - he only lets it show a tiny little bit when competing with Dante over ANYTHING. If Dante says he can eat a cheeseburger in three bites, Vergil will go above and beyond to eat it in two. Everyone thinks he's just being stupidly competitive with Dante and wants to win against his brother no matter what, but that's just his way of being fun)

Phew! That's quite a lot on the blue devil! Hahaha it isn't everything I keep in mind - of course there are the other things like him being reserved, more on the quiet side, intellectual, methodical, a lover of beauty (like literature, philosophy, poems, etc.), stupidly independent... But I think those traits are more "worldwide" known.

If you take all his trauma and how it affected him into consideration, I think, his personality follows easily. You understand a lot better how he would react in certain situations - in the end, that's what being a writer is all about: creating characters and watching how all of them react to situations given their backgrounds and baggage!

I'm so sorry it's such a HUGE answer, but I do hope it helps. There's a lot to unpack and I didn't want to just "oi, he's a traumatized asshole, that's it" - because you miss the nuances if you just work with that perspective.

Thanks a lot for asking, though, I had fun writing this little essay on Vergil, the man, the myth, the legend HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hope you have a nice weekend and have fun writing!! If you need any advice, even on writing in general, you can always ask me again! As you can see, I'm happy to help and I do love sharing what I know xD

[maxdibert]

“Yoooou!” she howled, her eyes popping at the sight of the man. “Blood traitor, abomination, shame of my flesh!” (Walburga Black’s portrait to Sirius, OotP Ch. 4)

“Master is not fit to wipe slime from his mother’s boots, oh my poor Mistress, what would she say if she saw Kreacher serving him, how she hated him, what a disappointment he was —” (Kreacher’s view of Sirius, OotP Ch. 6)

“Leave?” Sirius smiled bitterly and ran a hand through his long, unkempt hair. “Because I hated the whole lot of them: my parents, with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a Black made you practically royal … my idiot brother, soft enough to believe them … that’s him…” “He was younger than me,” said Sirius, “and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded.” (Sirius about Regulus, OotP Ch. 6)

“I don’t like being back here… I never thought I’d be stuck in this house again.” (Sirius to Harry about Grimmauld Place, OotP Ch. 6)

Look, trauma isn’t some fucking pissing contest. Just because someone like Snape went through a a lot worse doesn’t mean Sirius’s struggles should be dismissed. Emotional abuse is still abuse. It’s not all about wealth or privilege. If you’re constantly told at home by your own mother that you’re a disappointment, that’s abuse, period. Being yelled at and ridiculed at a young age leaves lasting scars—money or not. It affects the way you see yourself, the way you behave, everything. To dismiss Sirius’s trauma and boil it down to a spoiled rich kid acting out because of his family’s values is just missing the point. He wanted to escape that environment, of course he did. If your home is a place where you're constantly belittled, judged, screamed at and compared to your sibling, you’re going to want to leave, especially if there’s a way out.

And then, after everything with Azkaban, he’s left emotionally stunted, he didn’t even get a chance to properly grieve James and feels guilty of his death. The man was hiding from the Ministry, forced back into his childhood home, a place that literally reminded him of the abuse he went through. Walburga's portrait screaming at him, Kreacher constantly reminding him of how much he was hated. He’s left with nothing but isolation, self-loathing, and a bottle to cope.

To paint him solely as a rich kid with no real problems ignores the emotional damage he was carrying around. It’s fucking disgusting to ignore the abuse he faced and then act like his actions as an adult are just about privilege. This shit stays with you. The trauma doesn’t disappear because you have money or friends. And comparing him to Snape? Snape had a whole different level of hell. That’s true. But that doesn't erase the fact that Sirius went through shit that also definitely shaped his behavior and choices to an extent.

So please, spare me the privileged ‘rich boy’ narrative you’re pushing. Emotional abuse leaves scars, no matter the circumstances, and reducing Sirius’s struggles to wealth or rebellion is just dismissive.

I don’t give a damn. Plain and simple. He attempted murder as a teenager. He acted like a sadist, bullied, and abused a classmate who was at a social and economic disadvantage, exploiting his social power and privilege. I feel no pity for him. Azkaban was the sentence he deserved for his crimes of assault, abuse, and attempted murder. He’s still just a rich kid crying over his problems in a Ferrari, and people like that don’t get my sympathy.

If he hadn’t been such a piece of garbage for no reason and hadn’t been an abuser, then sure, I’d feel sorry for him. But nah—just another rich, white kid with mommy issues ending up in the gutter. Nobody is denying his trauma, but I’m not going to pity him. He always had it so much easier—sorry, not sorry.

[emthepotatocat]

I talked about this during the live discussion but my theory for the reason the RatGrinders where so interested in the Thistlespring Tree and the soil is because by infecting the soil, they can infect the pollen of the plants of Elmville. Then, that infected rage pollen would be used to make the Devil’s Honey that Gertie was talking about. It will then be used to infect the whole school through the food trucks. In their state of rage infection (where they worship the rage god), the devil’s honey would cause their worship and belief to be much more stronger as the infected will have no doubt that they ever worshiped anyone else and will start believing the lie.

I agree with most theories that the party died in the Mountains of Chaos and were brought alive by the rage god, but I find it more interesting how this god is operating. I’m not too sure if they’re directly controlling the actions of the RatGrinders or if it’s by proxy and the RatGrinders can control themselves to some degree, but the theme of loopholes and fairness is still prevalent in this plan. We have seen other gods be changed by their followers, like Cassandra and Tracker’s goddess, but what happens if the followers are essentially mind controlled into worship a certain god? especially one that is unnamed and largely unknown? Their plan is to actively shape the identity of their followers into being rageful and make those followers believe in the lie that they have always worshiped this rage god. Is this a loophole to the way worship in the FH universe works? Because based on what we have been shown, all worshipers were in some degree willing participates in their worship of any specific god, only social pressures and manipulations to keep them worshiping rather than being literally forced. So is this god trying to essentially build a brainwashed rage army to worship them in order to become a powerful god rather than building up followers? Is this rage god buying bots to artificially inflate their follower count rather than posting good-quality shit posts and amassing a loyal fan base?

Going over the whole villain plan so far: KettlePitty CopperFucker already has preexisting rage and jealousy toward the Bad Kids and specifically Riz. Her rage stems from her understanding how she’s an NPC in a DnD game. She’s essentially she’s an incel, wanting the world to revolve around her but not doing what’s necessary and thinking her conflict free life is boring and wanting the trauma of the Bad Kids. The idea of it all was much cooler in Kipperlilly’s head than it actually was for the Bad Kids, and the Bad Kids actually were able to work through that Trauma, leading them to be who they are. Anyway, Kipperlilly is a vulnerable teen who got too lost in her own emotions, and drove herself insane with her own jealousy, making her into the easy target for the Rage God. The Rat grinders’ treck into the mountains of chaos was most likely KipperLilly’s attempt at replacing the Bad Kids’ cool adventures but something went wrong, they weren’t prepared as they lacked experience with big threats, causing themselves to die. They all then chose to be revived by Rage God (TM), minus Lucy who stayed dead and who they hexed into never going into the afterlife as revenge(?) for not following the Rage God. (Begs the question of why they brought her to the Elmville forest rather than leaving her behind?). Anyways they go back to Elmville and slowly begin their plan, consisting of 2 steps.

1. Expel the Bad Kids as revenge.

2. Make everyone worship the Rage God.

The second step is much easier to explain. Kipperlilly sets up the food trucks and establishes them as legit. Then, at Frosty Fair, Ruben was supposed to infect all of Elmville’s soil through his ritual at the Root Guardian, being the Thistlespring residents. As discussed earlier, this would have caused all the soil and thus pollen and thus Devil’s Honey to be corrupted with Rage God and spread amongst the Aguefort student body. This creates a super army of Angy Bois who would all worship this one god. Now I’m not to sure if the ritual actually worked, but this sure seems like the original plan. Also somehow all of this is related to Ankarna and Cassandra and their marriage but I’m not sure how specifically. The Rat Grinders going back to the Mountains of Chaos might be for a ritual or meeting of some kind and we might get to see the Rage God in action as the RatGrinders report how their plan is not doing great, especially with the Bad Kids catching on and surviving. Also the Sky Engine stolen from Fabian’s basement might have something to do with the expulsion plan, but I’m leaning toward it relating to their trip to the Mountains of Chaos.

Now the first step is much more complicated and visible. First time, they try to expel them using the robit principal and catching the Bad Kids doing drugs at the Frosty Fair. This fails due to robit murder. This also leaves a power vacuum and due to Aguefort’s dumbass and Aguefort (the schools) lack of plan Cs, the Class President becomes the true principal in case of emergencies, leading Kipperlilly into furiously campaigning for President to become principal. I’m not sure if this is because she wants to expel the Bad Kids herself, a gun for more power, or something relating to the Rage God plan, or maybe all three? Idk. She is also most likely colluding with Jace Stardiamond, who we can assume gunned for Kristen to be failed for step 1 and for the bot not to be rebuilt for the above. The failing of Kristen also forced them to the Last Stand-ard Exam, where Buddy was probably planted by Stardiamond at the request of Kipperlilly and where Buddy and the Bad Kids were probably were going to be left for dead, hoping they may take the Rage God’s deal for life in exchange for worship and further indoctrination. Stardiamond is may be rage-compromised or is just being manipulated idk.

[deramin2]

There's a metaphor through conceit in Critical Role: Downfall that's shared by The Wicked + The Devine. Godhood as a metaphor for creative celebrity and unlimited social powers. The different god's domains reflecting how people's original personality, choices, and trauma shapes them into being famous for doing specific things. The power that comes from that specificity reshaping someone to fit those assumptions until they are more of a force than a person. But with all the horrible flaws and poor choices and power trips of the damaged terrified person. How simply having that much power over the world, and believing you should use it, obscures the true costs and collateral. So it's easier to pretend other people don't matter but you do.

They have very different paths into that framing. WicDiv was about conscious forces elevating people to godhood for their own purposes and power. Critical Role: Downfall showed coming to Exandria was a survival choice, not a planned decision. But everything that happened after that was their choice. Examining what is reasonable defense vs. hurting other people to reinforce their position. And if deescalation and healing are possible.

WicDiv's ultimate arc led to a very interesting answer to what the path forward could look like. What truely needed to be overthrown and resisted. Critical Role is in the middle of processing that question. It may not get answered within the show, merely grappled with. The gods are on a different timeline than the story.

They're vast entities whose tiniest action jostles the world, but they're also people. With all the flaws of people, and all the question if if they can change. Are they owed any sympathy or purely anger for not being better people?

I love seeing them both use this theme in different ways with different inputs and see what storytelling results they get.

[aysekira]

it's a treat as well as an audience (at least for me personally) to see how these chars develop with the caveat of having an innate trauma in being the one that got left behind, especially since these two dramas do not shy away in their showing of said trauma's effects.and no we're not getting them in short term or one of those glossing over or that few epis later everyone seems to just forgotten about it and the char all of a sudden becomes 'whole'.

instead we get to see them shape their view, coming up with their decision and based their actions with the basis of having an ingrained trauma for basically all of their vv long lives -- which funnily enough despite the fantasy settings made them so.... human.

because traumas of their degree don't just magically disappears, if ever. it takes time and more importantly conscious effort to overcome them&heck to even cope with them thus seeing these char acknowledging them through outright proclamations or innate acceptance just crank up their relatability to the degree that it made it so much easier for me to invest and root for them in their own story of dealing with the aftermath of an apocalypse in their lives (the world as a whole might not end but i believe theirs did or at least get obliterated&drastically shift when their parents did what they did).

sure i like the things i watched to be aesthetically pleasing, full of gorgeous visuals with a setting so immersive i could plunge myself entirely into it&stealing myself some sort of escape me time but to top it all off with chars whose development i'm actually excited to see rather than being lulled and going the route of acceptance just 'because the narrative said so'& possibly having a peek of their reasons, what makes them tick, etc-- just brings about a viewing experience that is much more pleasurable :)

Watching Jin in The Last Immortal made me think of Xiao Yao and Cang Xuan in Lost You Forever. More specifically how they are all adult survivors of childhood abandonment for a cause and how it affects them permanently.

Xianxia is such a high fantasy setting and usually deals with such larger than life situations (either world-saving or romantic.) Characters always die for the world or get doomed for love or whatever. And it’s great fun to watch. A xianxia done right is a rare pleasure.

But I love that two very different dramas this year actually take a different tack of sorts - they go, it’s great you saved the world/died for love/averted calamity etc etc but what happens to those left behind especially when said person is a child?

If you think about it, Xiao Yao, Cang Xuan and Jin are all characters who were abandoned by all those who were supposed to love them as children and it wasn’t because their parents/caretakers were bad people. It’s because none of the adults in their lives ever put the children first - they put saving the country (XY’s mom), saving the world (Jin’s dad), or true love (CX’s mom and Jin’s mom) over the children and the dramas go - well that’s great but it fucks the kids up.

If you are devoted to a cause, whether it’s an idea or a person, it makes you a failure to those not encompassed by that cause.

It doesn’t even have to be a cause that doesn’t take the kid into consideration. Xiao Yao’s father abandoned her out of a desire to protect her. But the fact remains is, she was abandoned and as she puts it in one of the dialogues - all the adults in her life, all the ones who loved her, had reasons for abandoning her but it was still abandonment.

I mean, if you look at Xiao Yao, as a result of her abandonment, she really cannot be in a healthy relationship - she can allow Cang Xuan in because he’s family and she cared for him before her world imploded but even with him I think she doesn’t expect him to be around forever. And as to a romantic relationship - she doesn’t even want a codependent one, because codependency implies a degree of reciprocity. What she wants is someone to depend on her while she is not as involved. As she puts it, she wants a man who would put her first and only, over any cause, or any family or anything. If you think about it, she falls for a man who has been disassembled by torture to a completely basic level and rebuilds his desires and his entire identity around her and he ultimately still fails her test by the end of LYF1.

And there is Cang Xuan. Whose father was killed in battle which is traumatic but then whose mother kills herself over his father’s grave, leaving her small child an orphan in a den of wolves with only “when you are an adult, you will understand.” No surprise - no he does not, and grows as fucked up as XY or more. If XY is willing to open to love even if in a dysfunctional format (and eventually she heals enough that she actually does get a happy ending in terms of love though she loses a lot on the way; the ending is a mixed one in terms of sweetness), CX is not at all - he believes he’s unworthy of love and incapable of receiving it properly. The fact that the sole woman he loves is XY, his cousin, also the one person around him who he knew before his life went to hell, and even with her he doesn’t really try to pursue her for a long long time even as she falls in love with someone else or gets engaged to yet another man - is proof of his damage. By trying to live her grand doomed romance and screw anyone else even her own son, his mother ensured her son will never have a proper love of his own.

And how with The Last Immortal we see the same effects with Jin. TLI is a kinder narrative and the ending of the drama is supposed to be happy for him (unlike the novel apparently) and Jin himself is not as closed off as the cousins in LYF, but he is so very clearly damaged by abandonment - his refusal to seek responsibility or come into his power, his deliberate goal of making his life as meaningless as possible are all the results of his dad liking the world more than his family and his mom liking his dad more than anyone and anything else.

All three of these characters are adults and capable ones at that but the damage lingers and lingers. And I find it so fascinating in a high fantasy setting.

These are narratives of those left behind on a grand heroic quest and that is something you rarely see done.

[phoenixyfriend]

Togruta Marking Headcanons (Evolutionary and Epigenetic)

Okay, so the question is:

Do you think togruta markings are purely genetic or partly genetic and partly influenced by the environment?

e.g. a stressful adolescence leads to more complex markings/breakage

This conversation was had in large part on discord with @atagotiak and @dracothulhu.

Striation and Complexity

Now, my take comes entirely from Ahsoka having VERY complicated markings compared to Shaak, but we played around with it and had a lot of fun tangling out some headcanons that aren't really supported by canon, but aren't voided by it either. Also it makes time travel fun.

(Shaak Ti looks at time traveled Ahsoka and goes "Oh dear. You okay, honey?" The answer is always No.)

(This is actually EXACTLY why I was hoping there's a combined genetic/environmental factor, so any given time-travel Ahsoka has a different pattern, to some degree, from her younger self so that they can say "IDK, maybe we're cousins?" instead getting side-eyed for having Identical Marks.)

(Happy AU Ahsoka ends up with smooth rings instead of what almost looks like blue veins in marble? It would also probably make time-traveling Ahsoka’s bad future story seem a lot more real.)

Reference image:

So like these three with their clean lines and stuff probably grew up ok, as much as their lives suck now.

Some of the complexity of the markings is definitely genetic, especially with face markings. 14 yo Ahsoka has some significant complexity there already, and while she’s got early childhood trauma from that one time she was kidnapped, she otherwise seems to have been fairly happy and healthy as a child in the Temple.

On the other hand, her lekku markings do go from fairly smooth and even to really jagged looking.

My thoughts are that facial striation is indicative of stressors in childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood, but Montral/Lekku striation indicative of adulthood stressors (and maybe some late teens).

The adult/child distinction in striation is imo because their faces mostly stop growing after they hit adulthood, but there's more growth in the montrals and lekku.

So Shaak has a lot of striation on her montrals because adult Jedi Masters, with field work on the regular, encounter a lot of stressful situations (more dangerous missions, raising a padawan). But her childhood and adolescence, while occasionally adrenaline-heavy on missions with her Master, were usually no more stressful than one would get with, say, hunting lessons on Shili, so her markings end up very simple and blocky on her face and more detailed on her montrals and lekku.

If if we assume that the Montral tips are the later stressors showing, then it’s plausible Shaak Ti’s got a lot of little markings partly because of the stress of being a council member. Sure it’s not life threatening but the stress of a high-pressure administrative position is still stress.

(And the three ladies here probably start getting a little more fragmentation in the years after the Zygerria arc, assuming they survived.)

It doesn’t look like a lot, compared to Ahsoka at least, but there’s a moderate amount.

Between the beskar and the complex facial markings and lekku striations, I feel like other Togruta tend to give Ahsoka a lot of respect as a warrior.

Doesn't matter that she isn't wearing Akul teeth! Whatever! She clearly knows her shit!

It could be a byproduct of evolving as a communal species. Like yes, striation is good for hiding when you hunt, but seeing complex patterns on a child's face can indicate an unhealthy home life or otherwise invisible medical problems. In that context, Togruta in general watch out for complex facial patterns as a sign of child abuse.

(Obviously not foolproof but it seems like a reasonable option.)

A more stressful childhood could be indicative of low food security, and then evolution led to the marking complexity to make hunting easier in response. Tddlers and babies with early complexity might have had mothers with food insecurity or high adrenaline levels in pregnancy, too. It’d be difficult to pinpoint a specific pressure that caused it, but there’s definitely a lot of reasons it was advantageous to keep in the gene pool.

(Baby Anakin didn't know a lot of togruta growing up but I imagine most of them were heavily striated, so in those time-travel AUs, he doesn't understand the big deal with Fulcrum's markings until someone explains...)

(Slaves had stressful lives all around, and slavers liked it when togruta girls had complicated markings, they were considered Prettier, so this... worked out for them and Nobody Else.)

(If he noticed that other Togruta he’s seen since, like Shaak Ti or other Jedi or some civilians he’s met, seem to have less striation he maybe just assumed it was genetics and didn’t question it further?)

Montral Shape and Lekku Length

Another interesting thing is just the massive variation in montral shape.

My guess, personally, is that it's regional evolution. Did your ancestors live in an area with lots of trees, or was it more canyons, or maybe grasslands? It was an evolutionary reaction to how sound bounced around in your area.

In regards to lekku, even ignoring the live action stuff, Rebels Ahsoka has smaller lekku than Shaak Ti does. And some of that could be partly random chance and partly because Shaak Ti of age, but some people also think it’s partly malnutrition. I've personally been assuming it's just age and genetics, but...

We do see a significant lekku length disparity by gender, like these images:

To which I suggest:

...trans Ahsoka, whose lekku started growing out a little late because that's when she started estrogen (or the Togruta equivalent). There are a few male togruta with long lekku, but it seems pretty common for them to have short ones, so maybe they're transmasc.

[houseofchimeras]

DIY System Ask Game: 1) What are some of the oddest/funniest sources of species euphoria that any of you have found so far? 2) Does your system have any "obvious" fronters with clear mannerisms etc, who friends/family/others can often recognize without being told? 3) how easy is it for you all to switch, and how do you organize fronting time? 4) what is your favorite system-related question to answer that you don't get asked enough?

“1) What are some of the oddest/funniest sources of species euphoria that any of you have found so far?”

Had to think about it for a second, but here is one.

The main doors of our work have a push button for handicap accessibility. We originally started using it in 2020 because we could easily tap it with our leg so we wouldn’t have to grasp any door handles. However, using them is nice because tapping the button is easier on our phantom bodies.

Our phantom bodies are the shape of our theriotypes/kintypes and so many of us have ‘types that cannot grasp and open doors. So opening doors is jarring because our phantom body can’t mimic anything we’re physically doing. But with the button press, our phantom bodies can translate the action into something our ‘type could reasonably do.

Being hands free is good but the added little species euphoria is a nice bonus. It’s a little odd and unexpected, but it is what it is.

“2) Does your system have any "obvious" fronters with clear mannerisms etc., who friends/family/others can often recognize without being told?”

Most of the long-time fronters in our system are a lot alike in mannerisms because it was needed during much of our life to keep from getting into trouble. (Because singlets don’t automatically think plurality when someone acts different than they normally do.) However, there are a few subtle things we do regardless. 

Sky Singer has a habit of when he goes to grasp something (like a door handle), he only uses the thumb, index finger, and middle finger (leaving the ring finger and pinky curled into the palm and out of use). He also has a habit of keeping our arms in a kind of subtle raptor pose (elbows pressed against the body, etc.).

Earth Listener when grasping something will sometimes forget the thumb and either grasp things without it or otherwise just grasp things like she forgets just how long human fingers are.

Miushra and One-White-Sock both have a bit of a southern drawl to their speech mannerisms (but they can be told apart because the pitch of their voices is different. (Miushra’s is higher, while One-White-Sock’s is much lower) 

Also, according to @who-is-page, Kardegray is always extremely obvious when he’s at front because, not only does his body posture change, but also his accent has a noticeable southern “twang.” 

To name a few things.

“3) how easy is it for you all to switch, and how do you organize fronting time?”

It’s generally really easy for us to switch in our present state. At least it is easy for people who front with some regularity. For people that don’t front often, it takes a bit more conscious effort to get them into the driver’s seat, if you will. Sometimes front won’t hold to them and instead it will grab someone else again instead. Plus, people who don’t front often mentally/physically tire very quickly and have to switch before too long.

However, sometimes some factors can muddle switching. Sometimes one or more of us can get stuck to front which can make it either impossible to switch at all or make it where we can’t switch for any consistent amount of time before the person stuck gets rebounded back to front. Sometimes when our mental health takes a downturn, we get really blurry or even “front blind,” so we have no idea who is fronting, and the person fronting doesn’t know who they are. Sometimes if trauma-brain gets activated in some way it can cause involuntary switching. Things like that.

Barring those things, switching is normally very voluntary and easy.

As far as organizing fronting time, we really don’t. Actually. We once tried scheduling fronting times, but it never really fit our needs and wants. We used to have a bit more of a schedule when we were getting our degree because some of the classes were more interesting/less interesting to some of us. Nowadays we more go by a volunteer/ask method. If the fronter gets tired, they can ask if anyone wants to switch with them. If someone wants front, they can ask the current fronter if they can have front. It helps that most of us don’t mind co-fronting too.

But yeah, we just don’t really organize fronting time.

“4) what is your favorite system-related question to answer that you don't get asked enough?”

Honestly, we really love getting to info dump about stuff that go on in our innerworld. Daily life stuff and whatnot.

Also, some people with ties to fiction like talking about their source, especially if their experiences differ from canon in anyway. (Or sometimes it’s not even the people with that source, and it’s just other people in the system who have been told about all this information and they find it interesting.) So, we have many documents just laying around on our computer detailing things about Pern (from The Dragonriders of Pern), Equestria (My Little Pony), and so on. 

However, on both counts, we’re also terribly shy to talk about stuff as well. So even though we like the idea of talking about such information, actually talking about it is another matter.

~ various

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

I know you’ve talked about how all the Cullen pairings are eventually going to implode - glad someone said it - but I was wondering if you wanted to talk a little bit about what you think Meyer INTENDED with the pairings - tropes and whatnot? And what you think would have to change in her narrative to make what was intended what we actually saw on the page? Or — what do you think each cullens’ Perfect Spouse would actually look like?

Anon is referring to this post.

And well, you've certainly given me quite the challenge.

Some Musing Ramblings Before We Begin

Sort of like asking me to make Dramione work, I'm not sure I'm the person to ask this. Anyone who reads my work knows that... well, that's a lie, every story I secretly write is a love story. But it's not Twilight in any way shape or form.

Twilight simply isn't a story I would set out to write. This isn't a good thing or a bad thing, it just is, which means that asking me to make Twilight work the way Meyer intended is probably not your best bet.

But I'll try regardless, it's what we're here for.

Bella/Edward

Meyer intended Bella Swan and Edward Cullen to be the best and brightest of all the pairings in Twilight. They have the love and devotion of Carlisle and Esme, the physicality and sexual attraction of Rosalie and Emmett, and are such a grand love that even depressed Marcus takes note. This is the love story that drives the entire series.

Edward is an improvement upon Carlisle, a Carlisle with even better control, and the most beautiful man you ever did see. He's also a gentleman, a man of his time and from an era where chivalry was alive and men courted women. Bella is one of those disturbingly altruistic people who makes you feel bad about yourself just by being in the same room. She's incredibly selfless, kind, and also quite brave.

Together, despite their ups and downs and the many obstacles in their way, they're disgustingly perfect.

However, that's not what we get. On Edward's end he's... Edward about loving Bella. On Bella's end, she has no idea who Edward even is but she does know he's beautiful and special.

And to get what Meyer actually wanted... Christ, Anon, I'll try.

So, the first problem, if Edward was truly a good person then Twilight would never happen.

Edward would have his first day of Biology, miraculously maintain control, and flee to Alaska as he does in canon. However, he would not return. Edward in canon returns due to his budding obsession as well as his wounded pride, in fleeing Forks he feels he has lost to Bella. When Carlisle later points out that a girl's life is on the line, that Edward is foolishly endangering this girl solely for his ego, Edward refuses to acknowledge this.

A good man would never have returned from Alaska, the Cullens would have moved in short order, and Bella may or may not have died in a parking lot or in Port Angeles.

That said, what if Bella is not, in fact, Edward's singer? Then there's not this constant debate of him eating her or his creepy, budding, obsession with his personal brand of heroin.

Well, the trouble with that is that Edward would then never notice her. Even were Edward not a colossal dismissive dick, required per this ask, Bella is one mortal out of many and someone he shouldn't grow close to. Associating with her just exposes her to unnecessary danger from him and his family. Edward is a guest in our world, nothing more, and a kind Edward might chit chat with her in Biology but even if he had a growing crush he'd keep his distance.

As he tried and failed to do in canon, actually.

Basically, change Edward alone, and it's not enough. The Edward Meyer wanted would never get together with Bella. At least, not without a lot of AU-sauce.

But let's look at Bella for a moment. Bella's character also has to be entirely stripped down. The Bella of the books is extremely depressed and her infatuation with Edward is fueled in part because of this. Edward's obsession with her gives her worth.

Obviously, in this new and improved edition of Twilight, Bella can't use either Edward or Jacob for validation. She has to be able to stand on her own two legs. If she does use either for validation, then the relationship must come to an end, as she and her significant other realize just what it is Bella's doing.

The trouble is, what does this not-depressed Bella have to fall in love with? Yes, Edward's beautiful, and that certainly goes a long way, but in canon he's a dick. Bella even thinks to herself that he's a complete dick (even when he's trying to be charming). Luckily for Edward she later decides that this is cryptic and therefore appealing.

Well, in AU land, Edward might be so damn charming that Bella likes him anyway but we come back to Edward keeping her at a polite distance.

So, what we need is a terrifying villain. Let's call him Angelus (though per Twilight this would probably be James). Angelus is a vampire that will force Edward's hand. For whatever reason, he decides to torment and ruin Bella's life, ending the hunt in either eating her or turning her into his bride. Angelus' existence forces Bella to be in the know and for Edward to have to take extreme action.

The pair become closer, grow through undoubtedly horrific trauma, and through said trauma Bella understands not only the pros of being a vampire but the terrifying cons.

Basically, it'd be this story. Just replace the name "Carlisle" with Edward and "Edward" with James.

Alice/Jasper

Alice and Jasper are supposed to have this ineffable, mystic, connection where they're together because... Alice saw them together. And in a way, that's true, but it's supposed to be a thing of beauty, soulmates if there ever were any, and instead it's this dumpster fire with nothing holding them together.

This one's easier in a way, well, sort of. Alice would have to be a completely different character and we'd have to see a lot more of Jasper.

Alice has a bad habit of treating those around her, even those she loves, as chess pieces. She'll put them in significant danger, court their misery, so long as it gets her the future she wants.

And she's extremely controlling.

Right away in the opening of Midnight Sun we see this and how it affects her and Jasper's relationship. The novel opens with Alice hovering, scanning the future for Japser fucking up, while Jasper just sits there in misery. Due to her obsession on making sure Jasper doesn't eat students, she actually misses Edward's plan to massacre Biology and his many plans to eat Bella Swan.

Even if she wasn't, this isn't good for anyone to live with. Jasper has very little concept of free will, whatever happens to him, whatever he'll do, Alice tells him and the worst possible option is always on the table.

For Jasper/Alice to work either Alice's gift needs to go (and that's... sort of all Alice is) or she has to tell no one any vision ever unless under extreme circumstances.

Which would be devastating for Alice. Rather than this mostly well-adjusted, perky, girl, Alice would be crippled by her gift. The weight of the world, everyone's free will, rests on her shoulders and she has to constantly avoid temptation to simply pick everyone's future for them.

Without the attitude Alice has in canon, I think she'd go mad with such a gift, or else be consumed by the responsibility of it.

Then we get to the mess that is Jasper. Jasper's complicated, and I don't want to get into it here, but his love story would have to be... too large to be put to the side like that. The redemption he'd need is not one that can be shoved into a few paragraphs told to Bella, it's frankly the kind of story that would drive an ordinary story.

So we'd have to see a lot of Jasper and Nouveau Alice. Which, of course, detracts from Bella/Edward which is the main point of the story.

Honestly, I take it back, there's no salvaging this relationship. They would have to be completely different people to the point where they're entirely different characters wearing nametags 'Alice' and 'Jasper'. Alice couldn't have her gift, which informs her entire character, and we'd have to see way too much of Jasper who is ultimately a tertiary character.

Carlisle/Esme

Thoughts on Carlisle/Esme.

Carlisle and Esme is a very 'spiritual' relationship per Meyer. They're... mom-bot and dad-bot. Alright, fine, they're the perfect parents with this deep love for each other and a very parental bond with Edward especially. It's the relationship Edward admires the most in his paired off family.

I don't even know how to fix this one.

Again, they'd have to be such different people. The trouble with Esme and Carlisle is that they share no values and are plagued by massive miscommunication. The Carlisle who is perfect for Esme... No, wait, this Carlisle is perfect for her, but that's because she's in Esme Land.

The Carlisle that would be perfect for a grounded Esme is not the one that exists. She'd want someone who would always put the family first, who would treasure her above all other things, that's not Carlisle.

Carlisle, similarly, would want someone that truly shares his ideals. That's not Esme.

So, we're back to nametag land, because one or both have to completely change for this to work. (Not to mention that Esme's probably not supposed to be Esme).

So, I've got nothing for this.

Rosalie/Emmett

I actually think these two are what Meyer intended. They love each other but are mostly held together by attraction. They're a very physical couple and good for the most part but inherently lesser than Bella/Edward.

Sure, I'd argue that they're the most put together couple in the house, but I think they're meant to have flaws. They work well together, but every other relationship in the Cullens has to be a step up or at least have something more to it.

Something Edward and Bella can be better than.

Conclusion

Dear god. Did I only manage to somewhat address Bella/Edward? Was that it? This was worse than I thought.

[winns-stuff]

LO RANT:

Okay, after that last post I feel as though it’s time to get back to our usual program, thankfully I’m feeling much better now and not as sad, although the situation still leaves some distaste in my mouth it’s not as overwhelming as it was last night. But that’s not what this post is about, I’m just going to be sharing an opinion I’ve been having and developing for a few weeks now and with everything that’s happened especially between the characters and Hades I feel as though it makes a lot of sense for me to think this way. Basically I don’t like how trauma is being used in this comic and I’ll tell you why.

I myself have certain issues in my life that I won’t be too specific about that a lot of people could say brought a bit of trauma to me. Sadly, it seems like you can’t live life without something terrible happening to you in some way or another, but that’s for another rant. Knowing this, never have I ever used trauma of my own as a sort of pass or leverage over others. When I get caught being moody or passive aggressive I don’t just go “oh well I have trauma so I just can’t be accountable for my actions” and in fact I can argue that many people who have trauma don’t do that. I just hate the message that it sends for people because we’ve seen this before.

I’m not sure if this occurred in late 2019 or 2020 but there was a bunch of people struggling with mental health and speaking out about it yet the viewers took the information they told them about and came down to the conclusion that they were just using it as an excuse to get away with things. Things that they accused them of getting away with had something to do with work, school, hygiene, socializing, behavioral issues, communication problems, etc. The people who accused them of this also said that the people struggling with such things wanted to be coddled, wanted the whole world to be shaped in a way that made them more comfortable which in my opinion shouldn’t be something to be looked down upon, everyone wants the world to be nice and comfortable for them why must we always have to sit through the violence and cruelty of others? You can argue that that’s life but I’m talking about in society, when you see a person struggling and wanting support why is your first reaction to “suck it up”? Just because life is hard doesn’t mean we have to be harder on others. Let’s make it easier for each other huh?

Anyways, I feel that same energy being created with Lore Olympus. It’s not in the same way but it is displaying beings who suffer from trauma becoming insufferable people because they cannot be held accountable because of that very reason. To me it feels like it’s feeding into the stereotype that people with mental illnesses only show it to get out of responsibility and such since that’s literally one of the key points with it. It’s not exactly a good look for people who suffer with similar problems such as Hades because nothing can be his fault because of his trauma, and honestly things like that already happen in real life. There’s so many people who already give bad people a pass because of their trauma and hardships that they’ve been through and allow them to keep being terrible people, and it’s very similar within the fandom too. When that Thanatos and Hades conversation came up there were so many people blaming Thanatos for “putting the blame” on Hades even though he had every right to, you don’t get to mistreat people because you have trauma that’s not how this works and we need to stop defending these bad acts before they start sinking even more to our realities than they already are.

Anyways, that’s the end of the rant. All of this is solely my opinion and I truly stand by it because it seems like it’s very very true. Which makes it annoying because people with mental health issues already get a bad reputation anyways, we should stop depicting trauma as some sort of accountability dissolver especially in fiction it’s just feeding into that same message from before and we’re finally (but slowly) accepting mental issues as actual situations that need to be helped and supported, we don’t need any more pushback. Listen, in no way am I saying that LO shouldn’t have explored mental health and trauma at all but at the same time it doesn’t seem to be diving into it in a way that gives it any… I don’t know. I feel like it’s more surface level stuff to me personally which is fine but I just wish it didn’t handle it in this way.

[sapphire-knight]

Welcome to a new episode of Sapphire Rambles, today's topic being:

Just as c!Tommy is a simbol of Care, c!Fundy is a simbol of Love.

Let me explain.

(There are going to be 3 principal points to this rant, and each of them is gonna end with a Tl;dr in purple, so it's easier to follow)

If you're a regular in the Fundy tag (or in the Ranboo tag since this argument gets often brought up in relation to C!Ranboo), you might have already seen some rants talking about how C!Fundy is an incredibly loving person, willing to chase after the people he care about if he sees the tiniest hint that mending their relationship is possible, even if they hurted him in the past.

Yeah you are going to see the same argument again here in the first part, but I promise this gets interesting

This became more clear after the Break, when he decided to try and mend his relationship with Philza and Ranboo even if they weren't at all on good terms at the moment, but he thought it was worth it so he tried and will keep on trying anyways, but we have examples of Fundy's really loving and forgiving nature back to the Revolutionary era

Everyone knows about Eret's betrayal I'm sure, but one thing people seem to skim over is how it effected Fundy, because there's the really high possibility that he was the one who was hurted the most by it.

For everyone who has some spotty memory (me too sometimes fam), Eret was the closest person to Fundy at the time, the two being really close friends, so the betrayal must have had a terrible effect on his emotional health, but you know how it went?

It went that Fundy was the first person to reach out to Eret and start to forgive his actions. Fundy always valued his friendships above the side he was in. So even tho he was a L'manburg abitant, he still thought of Eret as a dear friend to him and did his best to not make them feel alone or isolated

There are really few examples of people Fundy actually has an issue with, but even here Hate is a strong and mostly wrong word to apply, for example:

- Wilbur: as we are shown in the interactions with Ghostbur, Fundy didn't hate Wilbut for how he neglected and patronized him, it made him upset (as we saw when Ghostbur called him "his little champion" and he ran away) but he never hated Wilbur for that. The only thing he didn't forgive him was deciding to die, leaving him. And his issue with Ghostbur is not aknowledging or taking responsability. But he doesn't hate Ghostbur, he can talk to him in a civil manner even if the Ghost pretty much upsets him. And about Wilbur? Fundy loved Wilbur, the thing that hurted him was he taking the decision to definitivly leave him.

- Technoblade: even before Doomsday, the correct word of Fundy's feelings towards Techno has never been Hate, but Fear. A lot of people seemed to miss this point about the Butcher Army as a whole, but they weren't move by hate, even if they tried to make it look like they were. They were terrified. On their way to Techno's house, it was more clear than ever that they were TERRIBLY afraid of Techno. The Butcher army was never a movement of hate, but a bad reaction to a traumatic event that scarred them with fear. Also, after the Break? Fundy understands why Techno wanted L'manburg gone, so he doesn't hate him for that.

- Jschlatt: if you followed Fundy's pov, it won't be a surprise me saying that Fundy doesn't hate Jschlatt, but it may be news to other people, since one of the last interaction between the two was... anything but positive. I still shiver at the caravan scene. But even after all he's done, Fundy can't bring himself to completly hate Jschlatt, even if he did a lot of horrible things and was a horrible person, he still doesn't hate him. Fundy took with him Jschlatt's sword, keeping it as a relic and a memory of the man.

There is no one in the server, probably not even Dream Himself, that Fundy full-on hates. No matter how much they hurted him and everyone else, he just. Doesn't hate them. He's able to see the humanity in everyone, even if he wishes he could just hate people that wronged him. He was always forgiving and loving, these two aspects of him becoming even more prominent after his Break.

Tl;dr: Fundy is a character incredibly full of love and almost always willing to forgive and mend relationships with people he cares about at the moment he sees the possibility.

Now that I got the part most talked about out of the way, I'm taking the second tangent. Let's talk about Self-love.

It's not news the fact that there are really few characters, if not actually none of them, who love themselves. Might it be for trauma or for guilt, none of the characters actually love themself and act out of self-love.

Sometimes there are characters that act for themselves, but that is different from acting out of self-love.

Acting for themselves means doing something to achieve an objective that you want, for example: Eret's betrayal.

Eret betrayed L'Manburg becayse he was promised the role of King of the SMP by Dream, she acted out of her wish for power and control. That's an example of acting for yourself.

Acting out of self-love means doing something with the only cardinal reason being that it's good for you, taking care of yourself doing something that makes you feel better and healthier. That is acting out of self-love.

And, if you look at the server, you can easily see that no one has ever done that, expect for one single time.

The closest wrong thing you might be thinking off right now is when Tommy escaped from exile, but that was not an act driven by self-love. Sure, Tommy saved himself and went towards a healthier mindset, but what drove him towards that direction was not a desire to be better and good for himself, but rage towards Dream and a desire to be back to his family and friends.

You know what the only act that could possibly be out os self-love is?

Fundy going away for a years and a half, taking a break from everyone

Think about it for a second. Why did he do that? Let's start putting away the wrong possibilities:

- Doing it for someone: Fundy at the moment was heavily spiraling towards paranoia, wanting to be a villain to make everyone hate him. If that was his mindset at the time, why would he even want to get a break for anyone?

- Having a second cause: what second cause could there be for a choice like getting away from an unhealthy situation to heal? The only second reason a choice like this could have is healing to help someone else heal when you're feeling better, but refer to the last point

- ... that's virtually it

The only reason that could have caused Fundy to decide to take a break from the whole situation because it was unhealthy and heal was because he wanted to heal. For himself. He genuinly wanted himself to feel better for the only reason being, simply, feeling better.

Fundy is the only character for now to have ever taken an important choice for making himself feel better and letting himself heal.

Tl;dr: Fundy taking the year and a half break was the only decision on the entire SMP taken only out of self-love and genuine desire to feel better for the sole reason of feeling better.

Fundy is a representation of love, in any shape or form. He is unapologetically full of love and care, both for himself and for the people around him.

Anyway, the third part is a theory, if younwill kindly follow me:

The above analysis is the exact reason why the Egg causes Fundy an extreme repulsion.

Since both Fundy and Tubbo said that the Egg seems connected to Dreamons, I'm going to roll with that idea in mind.

As we all know, one of the only known weaknesses of a Dreamon is Love and this Dreamon seems to be acting and controlling people out of wishes and desires.

Fundy should be a perfect candidate for the Egg to manipulate, isn't he? One of Fundy's most known characteristic is his research for love, affection and appreciation from people, and we know the egg has no problem using love to manipulate someone, because he is manipulating Bbh using his (platonic?) love for Skeppy against him.

So why the egg would cause a repulsing reaction to Fundy?

Tommy seems immune because he doesn't wish for anything right now, he has everything that he wants

Tubbo also has a repulsive reaction, but is not a hateful reaction but one driven by fear and sadness, the Egg purposefully trying to scare him away, probably to make him unable to fight against him

But why Fundy's reaction would be full-on hate?

I think the egg was trying to do with Fundy the same thing he's doing with Tubbo, scaring him so badly to drive them to the point where they cannot fight back out of complete fear, but it's not working.

It's not working because the Egg fears Fundy, fears how full of pure, unfiltered and unapologetic love his heart is, fears how he's the living representation of the fact that love, of any kind, is the strongest emotion out there. Fundy already was able to defeat a Dreamon because of his own love, and now that he's more emotionally stable and has decided to follow his heart more, mending relationship with people he loves even if they hurt him?

Fundy is an incredibly dangerous threat to the Egg.

So fear is not enough to keep the fox away, he cannot let him anywhere near his plans.

He fears that if he tried the fear treatment on Fundy, Fundy would be able to break out of the web of terror as soon as someone he loved was caught in the crossfire

So he tried pushing him away in a different way, using hate instead of fear, because since Fundy is such a love-driven person all around, the best way to keep him away is to use hate, just like Tubbo is often driven by hope and optimism, so the best way to keep him far fron where he could be a danger is to use sadness and fear.

Tl;dr: The Egg is making Fundy hate him because that's the only emotion that could actually keep Fundy away from him, because he, being a Dreamon, fears how full of love Fundy is.

[neutinya]

Thinking about an AU where Iwa and Oiks exist in my OC universe;; (the one with Jayce, Cassius, Mallory and Miles!!) Iwa would be a demon in this universe, and Oikawa an angel. This is suppose to be after a really long fight between the two of them, where neither wins After blood, sweat and tears, Tooru cracks, no longer able to carry out his orders to kill his best friend The battle ceases and they retreat together into the dying sun. - Please note this is an AU based of my original story!! I included some world building under the cut to give you a guys an idea about what it revolves around;; But Essentially, it's a story about how Angels have grown vain and have decided to "liberate" humanity. Demons have long coexisted among humans and are well integrated unlike angels;; It's meant to subvert the traditional trope!! In my story, for the most part, angels are "bad" and demons are "good", of course that's just generalisation,,, but yeah;; It's a story I really want to work on;; so to share it with you guys I thought I could introduce it to you guys through Oiiwa;;

Demon-borns are individuals who are demons by blood. Demon deviants possess a primal instinct known among the demon community as bloodlust. This instinct is only triggered in dire and perilous situations where individuals act on an uncontrollable rage that would not cease until the source of their anger is eradicated. The demonised are individuals who are made demons by either demon-borns or those who wield dark magic.

Demons are often seen as tormented souls who have fallen from the grace of god. People believe that demons are created based on the belief that it is easier to be ruled by hatred and greed than to live by morals that are typically associated with “good”. However, while this is the perception that angels and humans live with, in actuality, their nature and actions are shaped by their environment, experiences, much like the human spectrum of personalities.

The common misconception people have of demons is that they are inherently evil or bad. However, what distinguishes demons from angels are primarily their appearance and core magic.

Their powers thrive on negative energy, negative emotions/trauma the main driving force to their power. Regardless of tier, the more emotions welled up within a demon, the stronger they are.

Most demons fall within the tiers of A, B, C and D, with A being the strongest out of the four and D the weakest. However, there are also the S-class demons, which exist in 5 categories. The least powerful of the bunch is, well, S, second SS, third SSS, fourth 4S and the most powerful category, 5S.

The higher up the tier, the more markings/physical characteristics a demon would present. While there were exceptions, this was often the best indicator of a demon’s prowess. The stronger they got, they would often develop more physical characteristics displaying that power.

Unlike angels in this aspect, low-tier demons had the capacity to move up the tiers, however, it is rare for low-tiered demons to transcend into the S-class

This is the reason for the fluidity of Demon influence. They are not ruled by a monarchy like the angels but have an ever-changing hierarchy.

S-Class demons are often the product of pure-demon blood, for a low-tier demon to come close to becoming an S-class, one has to undergo severe psychological/physical trauma that often awakens the primal instinct that exists amongst S-class demons.

Again, that being said, there are always exceptions. Demonised-angels have higher-chance of becoming S-class demons due to their culmination of light magic. Their magic becomes tainted, while most of it gets turned into dark magic/energy, there have been cases in which it turns into a very rare form of mixed energy known as “Grey magic”.

Angels cannot be created unlike demons. Their supernatural and magical powers are based on the idea of purity, that the only way to become an angel is to be born pure and maintain that purity.

They are extremely particular about what they deem an angel and what they do not. Half-bloods for examples are referred to as anti-immaculates. While they may come from a lineage of angels and have angel blood running through their veins, they are not considered to be an angel.

When an angel becomes tainted, their wing feathers start to turn black and their halos start to dim. Angels who have their purity fully tainted do not have the typical golden haloes but rather black rings of darkness. They no longer radiate light, but rather the opposite, absorbing any light to amass that ring of nothingness.

People often believe that angels are inherently good, saviours and a sign of hope. However, the reality is that Angels have grown vain. The majority of the angel population believe that they are the rightful saviours of humanity and that any favour done is a reason to be indebted to them.

Unlike the supernatural powers of demons, their power is a culmination of magical light essence. Angels often drink the blood of other “angels” to revitalise their magic essence, which in turn mutates with their own and creates a stronger power. While there were other methods such as light pills or apples from the apple tree, pure angel blood was the most reliable way to grow one’s power.

This has been the reason for the royal family’s history of powerful angels. Feeding angels exist to fulfil this purpose and demand, while there is a minority of volunteers who offer up their blood in exchange for glowstones, most of their supply is taken from angels imprisoned for whatever apparent reason.

Removing their wings can cause a lot of complications since many nerves in the wings are connected to their spine. This is a common punishment method used to those who have been stripped of their role.

[aster-ion]

Sylvie x Loki Might Not Happen and Here’s Why

***SPOILERS FOR LOKI TV SHOW***

1.  They are basically siblings

Even though they have different personalities, backstories, and physical appearances, that doesn't change the fact that they are the genetic equivalent of siblings. No matter what Timeline you're looking at, both Sylvie and Loki are the offspring of Laufey and whoever he had children with. We know this because they are Variants of the exact same person, meaning that if either of them were born to someone other than Laufey, they would have been pruned as a baby. And since they weren't, that means they must be just as genetically similar as siblings are.

Because of this, the idea of Sylvie and Loki engaging in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship is extremely disturbing to a lot of fans. It's too big an oversight to brush past, especially when the show has continued to remind us over and over that they are, in fact, both Lokis. Maybe if them being the same person wasn't such a major plot point, it would be easier to ignore the facts, but it is, and that means that Marvel is basically pushing either an incest or selfcest (depending on how you look at it) type relationship. And that’s extremely risque for a corporation as large as Marvel, especially with a character as beloved by fans as Loki. 

2.  It is terrible LGBTQ+ representation

And before anyone says anything, no, it is not because Sylvie is portrayed as female and Loki as male. I've seen a lot of Sylvie x Loki shippers say that the reason people don't like the couple is due to it being one between a male and female, but that's not true. Loki and Sylvie were both confirmed to be bisexual, meaning that they can engage in a relationship with anyone of any gender. It would be completely valid for either of them to pursue romance with someone of a different sex and still be bisexual. No one is arguing against that, and if they are, I definitely do not agree with them.

However, the problem comes in when you take into account Marvel and Disney's (who owns Marvel) long history of queerbaiting. There have been countless times that Disney advertises their "first gay character!" only for it to be a single line of dialogue or a brief shot. Marvel in particular has used the popularity of certain LGBTQ+ ships and headcanons in their fanbase to generate media popularity that they don't actually follow through with in their movies/shows. So when Loki was confirmed to be both genderfluid and bisexual in Episode Three, lots of people felt like they were finally getting a win for representation. 

But those people, myself included, appear to have been let down again. The first two official queer characters had so much potential to go off and be with anyone they wanted, but instead, the show has set them up to be in a romance with each other. Now, this wouldn't be problematic on it's own, but when you take into consideration the questionable nature of their romance from Point One as well as the fact that the show has explicitly referred to it as "twisted," it raises the question of whether or not this is actually good representation. Because the fact is, in one episode the writers went “look, it’s two queer people!” and in the next, they said “their relationship is disgusting and demented.” Marvel’s first bisexual characters being borderline incestuous/selfcestuous does not sit well with me at all.

All of this is made even more confusing when you take into account the background of the Loki crew, most notably, the director Kate Herron. She also directed the Netflix series Sex Education, which has quite a bit of very well done representation of all kinds. So how is she managing to fail so badly on this project? It makes me wonder whether she truly is just losing her touch or if this is all a misdirection. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter.

3.  It does not send the "self love" message people seem to think it does

The writers, director, and cast of Loki have said multiple times that the relationship between Sylvie and Loki is meant to act as a metaphor for self love. And in a way, that makes a lot of sense. Despite creating different identities for themselves over time, they are still ultimately the same person and therefore share a special bond because of it. And there's a lot of potential that can be done with that concept.

Loki is an extremely complex and intriguing character. He has experienced a lot of trauma in his past that has shaped him into the person he is today. And that person is clearly very broken. He has never given away or received any kind of love, with the exception of his mother and possibly his brother, Thor. Other than that, he's had no healthy friendships, romances, or perception of himself. It makes sense for him to be confused by this pull he feels towards Sylvie, who is both alarmingly alike and vastly different from himself.

Something this series does exceptionally well is breaking Loki out of his comfort zone. He is finally forced to see himself from other people's perspectives. It started with the file Mobius showed him in the first episode. Loki was able to view his actions apart from himself, and was hit with the realisation that he had been hurting people, and he didn't like that. 

Loki is also confronted by the existence of the Time Keepers and the TVA, who describe him as an antagonist and nothing more. To them, his role is to make those around him look better, even if that means he repeatedly gets the short end of the stick. Mobius mentions that he disagrees with this and that Loki "can be whoever and whatever he wants, even someone good," adding another layer of depth as to who Loki could be in the future of the series. 

Another huge moment for Loki's character development is while in the Time Loop Prison with Sif. Though he starts out annoyed with the situation and recalls not feeling apologetic when he cut off Sif's hair, the longer he is in the loop, the more he changes. Loki admits things to himself that we have never seen him say aloud, such as the fact that he is a narcissist that craves attention. Sif telling Loki over and over that he deserves to be alone makes Loki question whether or not he believes that to be true, allowing him an introspective moment where he really has to think about who he is. 

Now with all of that being said, I'd like to tie in why this is important to the writing of Loki and Sylvie. They act as a mirror to one another, representing both the flaws and strengths of "what makes a Loki a Loki." For once, Loki gets an honest, unbiased look at himself without layers of expectations or self doubt. On Lamentis, he calls Sylvie "amazing" and praises her for all her accomplishments. That's a huge moment for him because it shows that despite also finding her irritating, he can look past those traits and see someone worth being a hero underneath. And through that realisation, he begins to understand that he can also grow to love himself. That kind of character development for Loki is incredible to watch, and it's the kind of character development I want to see from this series. Unfortunately, them possibly engaging in a romantic relationship will ruin it.

Whenever I'm feeling insecure about myself and my abilities, the solution has never been to look at who I am through a romantic lens. Self love is an entirely different type of love from romantic love, so if the series tries to push this relationship as a romance, it will fail to truly represent the arc that they are trying to show.

4.  Nobody likes it 

This one's a little on the nose, but it's true. Almost no one likes this ship, and more than that, most people actively hate it. Yes, there is a small minority that like Loki and Sylvie together, but there is an overwhelmingly larger group that is disgusted and angry by the fact that the show paired them up.

After Episode 4 aired, I ranted for about an hour and a half with a friend about how much we didn't want them together. My aunt whom I have never texted reached out to me to say that she hated their relationship. My homophobic neighbour came over and told me that she would prefer any other romance to this. Friends that I haven't talked to much since school let out for summer have all agreed that they collectively dislike Loki x Sylvie. This ship has brought people together purely because everyone hates it more than they hate each other.

There is no denying that the general feedback for Loki and Sylvie being a couple has been negative, even if you support them getting together for some reason. So if there are so many people out there who don't like it, I'm confused as to how it would be approved by a team of professionals.

5.  The contradicting information we have gotten so far

Before the release of Episode Four, Kate Herron said that the relationship between Loki and Sylvie was “not necessarily romantic.” During the interview, she continued to refer to them as friends and people who found solace and trust in each other.

However, after Episode Four, the head writer, Michael Waldron, and other members of the crew spoke up about Sylvie and Loki. They said things like “it just felt right that that would be Loki’s first real love story” and “these are two beings of pure chaos that are the same person falling in love with one another.” These kinds of comments very heavily imply something romantic, directly contradicting what Kate Herron said. Even Tom Hiddleston, the actor for Loki, has assessed the situation, highlighting the differing viewpoints. He’s also said before that the end of Episode Four ultimately has Loki getting in his own way. 

Now, this could all just be a misdirection on either side to build suspense for the show, but as of right now, it is entirely unclear who is telling the truth. Though it is more likely that the statements made by Michael Waldron are more accurate (as he is the writer), there is still a slight possibility that Loki x Sylvie won’t happen. I’ll link the articles I’ve found on this topic below so you can read them and decide for yourself. 

Kate Herron Statement - https://www.cbr.com/loki-sylvie-relationship-not-romantic/ 

Michael Waldron Statement - https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-sylvie-in-love 

Tom Hiddleston Statement - https://thedirect.com/article/loki-tom-hiddleston-sylvie-romance 

6.  It is still salvageable

The odds are not in our favour, I’m afraid. It is highly probable that the show will put Loki and Sylvie in a romantic relationship with each other. Yet there is still a way to salvage it and turn their bond into something incredibly satisfying. Like I mentioned in Point Three, the relationship between Loki and Sylvie has the potential to be incredibly empowering and provide both characters some much-needed growth. And I believe that while unlikely, it can still do that. 

The only mention of them being romantically interested in each other came from Mobius, who at the time was angry, betrayed, and doing anything he could to get Loki to talk. Then, at the end of the episode, right before Loki is about to confess something important to Sylvie, he is pruned. This results in no explicit confirmation from either Loki or Sylvie that they are in love with each other. The audience is left not knowing whether Mobius was correct in his speculations, and honestly, I don’t think Loki knows either.

Loki is no expert on love, as I explained earlier. It is entirely possible that he doesn’t grasp how he feels about Sylvie and defaults to romance because of what Mobius said. There is undoubtedly some sort of deep bond forming between them, and I would love to see that being explored in the next two episodes. I would love to watch Loki’s journey of realising that he doesn’t want anything romantic with Sylvie, and was simply confused by the new things he was feeling towards her. Loki even says “this is new for me” when talking to Sylvie at the end of Episode Four. Him momentarily believing that he wants to be a couple with her then shifting into them becoming friends who help each other grow is still a reality that could happen. And ultimately, I think that would benefit them both as characters as well as strengthen the overall message of the show.

In a show about self love, acceptance of yourself, and figuring out who you want to be, Loki very much needs people who support him. He has that in Mobius already, and now he’s beginning to have it in Sylvie as well. I just hope that it is done in a way that resonates with the audience and subverts expectations, which just cannot be done through some twisted romantic relationship. I’ve spoken to others watching the show and seen people talking online, and everyone seems to agree that Loki and Sylvie work much better as platonic soulmates or found family than a couple. 

Of course, my hopes aren’t that high up. While I’d love for this to happen, I’ve been let down by Marvel before and wouldn’t be surprised if they went for the easy route of pairing characters up rather than dealing with the emotions correctly. Still, I have hope for this series. Everything else about it is wonderful and perfect in every way. It has the potential to become a masterpiece and easily the best thing that Marvel has ever done. However, this romance would ruin it for me and so many others. We already feel incredibly disappointed by Loki x Sylvie being suggested, so I can’t even begin to fathom how people will react if the show makes it canon. I’m begging Marvel to please do better than this. They have a wonderful story to tell and a wonderful team to do it, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that they don’t throw that away. 

[palmett-hoes]

how do you think this fandom deals with "measuring" trauma? i've seen a couple posts detailing aaron's reaction to trauma/nicky's reaction//seth's/etc and it seems like some people have a tier list of trauma responses in regards to the foxes? like what's "acceptable" versus what isn't, and who's trauma was "enough" to make their actions excusable versus others. this doesn't make much sense but i hope you get where i'm coming from?

no no i get you don't worry

i think it’s something i used to see more said explicitly than i see it now. like i definitely remember a point in the fandom when ppl were very openly mad at aaron for the way he acted in the books and especially him not being “grateful” enough for all that andrew had “done for him.” additionally seth used to be used as a minor villain or an abusive ex in fics a lot more than i see now. then of course there was a period of calling out these trends and reminding ppl that these are books about trauma, not books about ethics, and that you really really can’t read them without attempting compassion for every character. they’re not books about who’s right and who’s wrong, they can’t really be read in terms of theory or ideology. they’re about survival and recovery.

i haven’t really seen those sentiments in the past few years tho, at least not as openly as they once were, nor have i seen the old posts recirculating. at the same time, i think that there’s less meta and character analysis being written in general so there’s also less debate in general. i don’t see the whole fandom tho, just who i follow and the stuff from the tags that shows up on my tl. if this stuff is actively still going on idk about it, though i’d like to think we as a collective have moved on from seeing trauma as a zero-sum game

additionally, because of the discourse period over them it seems like aaron and seth in particular are treated with extra care not to invalidate that they came from abusive situations and were shaped by that. i’d say it’s now seen as bad taste to openly denounce what a character has been through as “not enough”

however

measuring trauma isn’t always angry, it isn’t always saying to a character “you didn’t go through enough” or “he went through more so shut up.” measuring trauma can also be dismissive. it can take the form of simply choosing not to include it. of removing character traits or actions or topics that make us uncomfortable or are maybe complicated to approach. by removing them or replacing them or avoiding them and simply writing like they’re not there, you essentially get to the same place as saying “get over it” but instead you write them as having, well, gotten over it

so i do still see people measuring trauma it’s just not as outright anymore. instead it’s paring certain characters down for ease and digestibility, and simply not engaging with their trauma and circumstances

i would say i see this most often with the upperclassmen, dan, matt, and allison especially (and nicky even though he’s not an upperclassmen) (ik i mentioned him but seth content is still pretty few and far between) (renee’s trauma has the “rule of cool” so it still gets in there). i’ve mentioned before how sidelined the upperclassmen are in fan works and some of the unfortunate implications of that, but another dimension is not acknowledging or considering their individual backgrounds. they all come from some pretty fucked up circumstances and more than that they’re all SHAPED by those circumstances

in the books, they are all wary isolationists with attitude issues.  they can be mean, they can be nasty, and they can be violent. they come from poverty, abuse, neglect, drug addicition, gang violence, and sex trafficking. they are treated with extreme suspicion by their school, the media, their classmates, and their fellow athletes, and they respond with suspicion right back. their relationships with each other are often on thin ice. they treat neil the way they do - tolerate his puzzle pieces that don’t fit together right without questioning - because they can all recognize themselves in him. and on the flip side, neil is able to relate to them for the same reasons, because they are also wary dogs used to being hit

but then i so often see the upperclassmen used in ways that mostly imply they’re like,, mostly normal, chill, often quite woke. goofy and cool. they all grew up watching disney movies and going to carnivals. they get used as a contrast for neil and andrew to highlight their traumatized behavior and the extremity of their circumstances, and if their trauma gets mentionted at all it’s in passing and it doesn’t inform the way they act. their trauma isn’t sufficient to inform their actions so it just,, doesn’t factor in or get mentioned really and they’re all nice, friendly, happy-go-lucky neurotypicals who are trying to teach poor traumatized neil how to be normal. tell me that isn’t measuring trauma

it’s annoying, in all honesty, especially since it now seems to come in a form that’s hard to call out because it’s no longer content that actually states a bad opinion so much as it is a lack of content or consideration for certain characters, pushing them further and further into the background and giving them increasingly more vague, palatable, and relatable characterizations.

in fact, it often comes off as praise, by ascribing them positive traits like nicky being a good guardian for the twins or allison being super knowledgeable about lgbt stuff or dan being a “queen” or matt being a “himbo” and because this is all good stuff it’s fine, right? it’s better than canon actually, right? except actually what it is is dismissive of their trauma and individual experiences. it’s a series of easily digestible filler words used to make the messy, ugly, complicated characters of canon softer and easier to swallow

also this is by no means restricted to the upperclassmen it’s just the one that slips most through the cracks. i definitely see this happening to andrew, too, but it works in slightly different ways and is a whole other discussion

[mc-critical]

On Hatice’s character, I feel like she more or less was cheated of a better character arc which could’ve made her more likeable or easier to understand (almost everyone I’ve encountered who is into the series has extreme distaste for her character.) Though I don’t necessarily feel any particular form of intensity towards her character I do wish she could have been explored a bit more? I can see why she wasn’t likely due to time constraints/needing to stay consistent with plot lines but it would have been nice to see. I feel like everytime Hatice was on screen, mentioned, or involved in the plot line it was in conjunction to or in relation to Ibrahim. Even after Ibrahim was dead, Hatice’s whole storyline was just..Ibrahim. It was clear that she was emotionally unstable and dealt with attachment issues from the start of the series, likely resulting trauma from her father’s bloody reign. We’re told she was “her parent’s favorite/the spoiled one” according to her siblings, we’re hinted at some sort of past fued between her and Sah but no real context. We rarely got to see her interact with her children. It’s like we only were given tiny bits and pieces of Hatice as her own person and everything else about her just existed to string Ibrahim along. It’s quite sad..what do you think?

Eh, I absolutely adore Hatice as a character and I feel she got a very solid, well-written character arc. I'm pleased with what we got with her in the show and I think that her nuance tends to be massively overlooked.

The center of her character is not really Ibrahim, but rather the line between family and dynasty. And while that seems to be attributed with Ibrahim in the strongest way, it also channels in who Hatice is as a person and her interactions with other characters like her mother, Süleiman and Hürrem.

Hatice has always been the sultana of blood that is closest to the dynasty, but also the one that wants to detach the most from it. As you said, she had lingering trauma from her father's reign /which indeed is only hinted, to be honest, but that's the whole backstory of Selim Yavuz, what we got from his cruelty in the show was basically hints two flashbacks. We were told by Süleiman of his defining deed, we were told by Valide and Hatice that they saw his father in him, but the rest remained pretty much vague, which isn't a problem with Hatice's character. However, it may come off as a problem with SS's character, since more backstory would better explain his paranoia outside of actions of the "suspects" taken out of context, would render Mustafa's death a little more understandable and would highlight even more his character arc, for Selim Yavuz was his "Azraeel", according to him, but that is a post for another day./, but on a more personal note, she has witnessed the death her former husband, which puts her panic and fear over death in another light. Her backstory isn't that focused on, because it's not all that important for her character arc: because while Mahidevran has to get over her past and Şah Sultan tries to consistently set herself for the future, Hatice has to face the events of the present. She's an effective deconstruction of the Princess Classic trope she started up as: an innocent, fragile, kind hearted princess, no sign of trauma whatsoever who strives to create a family of her own, as a bonus. After she meets Ibrahim, she feels like she wants to be in that adventure with him, she not only falls in love with him, but he fills her with hopes and dreams for a better life. Look how when she marries him she wanted to get out of Topkapi as soon as possible and always repeated that she wanted for them to be a family, that she wanted to have piece. Even her love for Ibrahim is much more deep seated than some plain obsession that is only used as a plot device or to prop him up. She's grown with beliefs that have been a part of her life and sometimes she lets them out out of sheer ignorance, no matter how much independence she wants in her personal life. Her whole relationship with Ibrahim is a back and forth conflict between dynasty and family that is only a vector for her arc, not the entirety of it.

It's often ignored how pivotal is Hatice's relationship with Valide. The closeness she has with her, especially compared to her other sisters, shaped up all of Hatice's life long beliefs. Namely Valide is the root of Hatice's love and respect for the dynasty, being next to its female representative her entire life (see also Valide's flashbacks in E58) and witnessing the way she dealt with things, the way she ruled the harem, the way she made decisions. Even Hatice herself considered her as her role model and wanted to be like her. (she told her this in E61) It was as if Valide was a preserver of all the virtues Hatice deemed as worth having. She has a tremendous respect for her and her opinions and this is what brought her to hide her love for Ibrahim more than anything. The respect she has for the ottoman laws and the ottoman dynasty and the ways she got used to them made her to do anything but admitting SS and Valide her true feelings.

Valide is an indirect reason of Hatice's supposedly "inpartial" point of view in the harem that let her judge things more fairly. It's not that Hatice was completely unbiased in her relationships with Mahidevran and Hürrem early on, because oh no, she wasn't, Hatice always was on the dynasty's side in this war, but for her dynasty always advocated fairness and preserving piece and order. She wasn't afraid to call out whoever she thought was wrong at any time and even when her bias had completely (and honestly, rightly in many aspects) impacted her in terms of Hürrem, she wasn't afraid to admit that she was right about Firuze after all. Hatice also has a very reactive personality: she doesn't let anyone provoke her and quickly responds when she's provoked. She's not provoked only about Ibrahim, she's also provoked when it comes to both family and dynasty, overall, seeing Hürrem and Mahidevran quarrel in E11, Fatma and the concubines challenging Hürrem in E47, Mahidevran attempting to kill Hürrem's children in E55, Mihrimah defending Hürrem in E84 etc. Whenever something she cares about is opposed or attacked by someone, she would always spring into action, which is a very consistent trend of her character as a whole.

{There are many reasons why I personally find Hatice sympathetic: she's one of the most ethical characters of the show, acting as a peacekeeper wanting to keep everyone out of their struggle, she's always ready to help, she cherishes love (her wanting to marry Sadıka to Matrakcı), there are so many people she cares about outside of just Ibrahim - Mahidevran, Mustafa, Valide, her sisters and their problems impact her as well, despite of how "self-centered" she may seem at first glance. She, just like MCK Gevherhan, is so humane to everyone she interacts with, trying her very best to empathize with them. (to the point Mahidevran told her in E05 that if she keeps up worrying only about them, she will wither in this palace) Her trauma and circumstance also bring in a lot of empathy for me, because significantly little of it is her own doing, compared to other characters. We see a character that deteoriates both internally and externally often as a consequence of her simply fearing she would lose everyone she loves and that her life would be once again, filled with illnesses and death.}

[Truth be told, I don't get the Hatice hate, like AT. ALL. I don't know about you, but people I've encountered on the Internet couldn't give me a valid reason as to why they hate Hatice so much. They either reduce her to a "whiny", "crying", "spoiled" or "evil" bitch, either say they hate her because she breaks down a lot or because stood up against Hürrem for no reason, which is totally untrue, in my opinion. I genuinely haven't seen one (1) good argument as to why she deserves such ire. They mostly look at a more dimensional version of S03 Hatice and forget everything that set up S03 Hatice, or they hate Hatice exclusively because of S03, which.... eh? I would dare say that there are more reasons to hate Mahidevran than there ever were to hate Hatice (even though the hate directed at Mahidevran is, once again, for all the wrong reasons) and if someone gave me an actually good reason to hate Mahidevran, I would understand, but Hatice? Even her more questionable actions were ultimately provoked by something or someone.]

Her first traumatic experiences in the present is also connected to the kids she's lost. Yeah, giving her more time with her living children and seeing her more as a mother is the one thing I would definetly change in her writing. We didn't get enough of that and it would be a breath of fresh air. But then again, losing so many could've demotivated her and the last time she was pregnant we also had this prevailing, but understandable fear. It also just doesn't play such a big part in her deconstrustion-to-become-flanderization-in-character-development arc.

We gain a gradual, broader perspective into her a bit later in the narrative, and perhaps that eventually broken first impression would cause disappointment - Hatice could be prideful and while she wants to detach from the dynasty for her family, she values her own position and the rights that are offered with it. She could be easily offended by remarks made to startle her. She could be demanding sometimes. But that existed along with her good traits. Hatice was the most reasonable and morally unproblematic character of the main cast overall and by S01/2, that truly showed.

If we refer only to S03 Hatice, it would make a tiny bit more sense for people to not find her that sympathetic. Because while she underwent a good flanderization arc, it's still flanderization and some traits of hers seem to be more present than others in that season, especially knowing the trajectory of said arc. It may look like there isn't a sympathetic reason to do what she does, as if she's like this all of the sudden. But here's the rub: season 3 wasn't supposed to give this much context to Hatice's actions, it's the pay-off of a build-up, the peak of her arc that leads to a resolution. Season 3 wasn't supposed to repeat stuff that has already been established, all Hatice is doing there, has been set up for an entire season, if not more. We already know what's driving her, we already have the sympathetic reasons. That's why all the attention is given to her actions that bring her to tragedy, not to introspective scenes.

Back to Ibrahim's relation to Hatice's character: A common affirmation I hear is that Hatice's rift with Hürrem was caused thanks to Ibrahim and Ibrahim alone. There's so much more to it than that! While we had the scene that started the build-up and the one that ended it be about a possible/already a fact infidelity of Ibrahim's as a parallel, these are only a part of it, not it in its entirety. Keep in mind that the one thing that fully set the upcoming enmity in motion during S03 is Hürrem taking Valide's chambers. And at first Hatice wasn't about to blame Hürrem for it all when she went to tell it to his majesty (her saying to Gülfem that it doesn't matter who told her about the affair) with her claiming that Hü ruined her life only after their confrontation for Valide's chambers. And here we return to the center of Hatice's character: thing is, whether we liked it or not, Hürrem always was a threat to the dynasty in Hatice's eyes. Şah asked her the infamous question: "The dynasty or Ibrahim?" when she was asked why is Hürrem a threat in E81, but I think both are in conjunction, yet independent of each other here. Hatice values tradition just like her mother and Hürrem breaking them all would cause some kind of disturbance. She got distraught right after she was freed and married, claiming that it had to be stopped before it happened, look also how she told Afife Hatun that Hürrem had to be gotten rid of because she caused unrest in the harem! Not only Ibrahim's death, but Valide's death impacted her so much, she thought someone had to supposedly protect the dynasty for what is to come before everything goes haywire and that's what she attempted to do the entire time. In S03A personal motives clearly ran together with the apparent protection of the dynasty (I sometimes like to parallel Hatice's dynasty with Kösem's state in my head, despite that Kösem's urge to protect the state comes more with her role as a ruler and regent and measures out of necessity, while Hatice's comes from willingness to preserve balance and harmony in a more personal level.) and she considered Hürrem as a threat to everything Hatice believes in. She seems to also take on her mother's footsteps in that regard, in a way, using common for Valide methods like sending a concubine to SS etc. She considers Hürrem a threat for her own stability and well-being and that isn't limited to just Ibrahim.

Her relationship with SS is the one that is probably the most connected to Ibrahim, judging by their first more "nuanced" scene for me (him deciding to marry Ibro and Hati) and fallout (the confrontation for Ibrahim's death), but that could be also connected to what Hatice has previously experienced and genuine respect for him as a brother before all the rocky stuff happened. And interestingly, her deep resentment and then despise of him is targeted at him bringing Hürrem to their lives, not simply just killing Ibrahim, though that was also an intensely strong motivator of hers.

Hatice's bond with Mustafa is also strong even before she fell in love with Ibrahim. She also considered him "the future of the dynasty", played with him in the gardens, comforted him in tough times when she could. They didn't have as many scenes together, but the relationship added a good amount of flavor to her character.

A reason why I think Hatice's relationship with Mahidevran is so precious and criminally underrated, is that this is the relationship least centered on Ibrahim, second only to Hatice's with Valide. Their scenes early on is mostly them being there for each other and being happy with each other's moments of good time. They're very bound to each other and are very good friends that still have a dynamic relationship. The temporary S02B fallout between them has everything to do with Hatice's disappointment and disbelief of Mahidevran's own failings. She also threatened something Hatice cared about and did something she didn't expect of her. And that isn't barely noticeable, Hürrem even remarked that Mahidevran is becoming alone in E58. (oh my, I hate this scene with passion, but anyway.) After that their dynamic then remained basically intact for S03, expect that they could act more like allies than friends. But that's a given, due to the more intense events in the palace and the tonal shift of the show.

I find her dynamic with Şah fascinating due to their contrasting personalities and strained, yet loving relationship. The feud between them had enough context given to us through Beyhan's words to Şah in E83: that Hatice not only was Valide's favorite, but she apparently had the life Şah wanted to have, which explains Şah's ambition and supposed distance and secrecy well enough. More backstory would mean destroying the interesting duality in the relationship and wouldn't make Şah's motivation half as interesting and uniquely presented as it was, to be honest. Which is why I find her dynamic with Hatice way more interesting than her dynamic with Hürrem (which is good, too, but pretty generic), but that's also a post for another day. But Hatice is actually the more open person in this dynamic and the one more revealing her feelings. Şah wanted her to move on from her losses, but Hatice objects so strongly because it all has gotten to a completely personal level, with Şah trying to redecorate her castle, it would look like she's trying to change her from the outset, her as a person, which is something Hatice would never agree with. But then again, it's clearly shown that deep down Şah cares about what Hatice wants and is trying to do the best for her in her own way. And the emphasis is again put on family: they still get along and reconcile, setting their differences aside.

Many of Hatice's introspective scenes were with Gülfem and while they talked about Ibrahim many times, we could still see the amount of powerful support between them. Hatice shared everything with Gülfem, it was as if they knew everything about each other. They were each other's comfort.

She showed moral support to Beyhan, as well. That is another familial relationship that shows both casual and profound interactions. It's not there as much, but that's more because of Beyhan's limited screentime, not because of something to do with Hatice.

Even her arc with Ibrahim isn't all about him, but is also tied to the core of her character. The line between dynasty and family drives their whole fallout and if it wasn't there, the conflict between them wouldn't ever take place. Hatice ultimately forgiving Ibrahim is more about her getting out of her own dynastic outlook, which is a relevant character development of hers that happens along with her flanderization. And that plot-line is as important as the flanderization, even more so, and it pushes it forward. It was a resolution of the conflict with family and dynasty in Hatice, not exactly forgiving Ibrahim just for Ibrahim. (that is also a factor, no doubt, because she loves him and he is a part of her character, but not all her character.)

Overall, for me Hatice is a multi-faceted, amazing character that is actually very fleshed out in the span of three seasons. I don't find much issue with her writing: everything that happened with her is logical and well-explained if you look closely enough and I don't want more for her arc. It was original and outstanding for what it was, both as a character concept and a dynastic sultana of the franchise.