#trans women and men are inherently violent because they are men

[vampire-nyx]

I don’t want to reblog it directly because what I have to say is too much for just tags and I also don’t want to get into a big long debate about this with the op, but I have some things to say about this post.

This post makes great points about the man vs bear hypothetical, cis people absolutely are often transphobic and blanket hatred for men and belief that men are inherently violent is Bad. Full stop, those things are true.

The post does however, make those points by either deliberately or genuinely misunderstanding the intent and unspoken things about that hypothetical and the answer. The question and answer are not as simple as the literal words would suggest they are. I know this is the autism website so I understand if that unspoken second part went over a lot of peoples heads because it was unsaid, but it is important to understand.

When a cis woman (or trans person, because trans people have answered this question as well) is asked “would you rather be in the woods alone with a man or a bear.” The question is not do you think a man or a bear is Worse, it’s often, especially at the point of popularity the question has gotten to, not a genuine question looking for a realistic answer, it’s a setup to a Statement that will be made through the answer.

Most people, if presented with the hypothetical in reality, would choose the man because it is understood by most that men are not inherently violent, that is a fringe radical thought as much as terfs and radfems on the internet and in politics make it appear to be widely held.

However, the answer is so widely “the bear” in order to convey a statement. The statement being “look how scared people are of rape culture, that they would exaggeratedly choose a bear over a strange man in an isolated place.” The point of the discussion is to Perform this fear in a way that cis men who don’t think about rape culture will either develop a deeper understanding of it, or out themselves as misogynists publicly (saying women are stupid for thinking a bear won’t kill them (not said), “not all men” statements that ignore the point in favor of being outraged at womens’ trauma, etc.)

All in all, man vs bear is a very lukewarm feminist statement that on a whole does not consider trans people. It is true that radfems co-opt this statement, as they do all feminist statements and ideas, to further push the idea that all men are violent monsters (and implicitly so are trans people) but to claim that that is the only goal or outcome of this conversation is, frankly, not helpful to anyone. It comes across as very performative outrage to see cis women (and as I said before, trans people) expressing in an exaggerated way that rape culture and violent misogyny is Scary and go “oh I bet you hate trans people too, don’t you. Since you hate men so much.”

It is never helpful to broadly apply radfems’ bullshit to everyone engaging in the lukewarm feminist ideas that radfems have stolen and twisted for themselves. Be critical of feminist talking points associated with radfems, but know the point at which it becomes radfeminism so you don’t accuse random well-meaning feminists and average women of radfeminist and terf beliefs.

[ex-furry]

there's something to say about how most of the modern mogai people on this website are vocally anti-misandry/anti-transandrophobia and prioritize stating those positions and bashing women for calling out misogyny over doing actual social justice work. does that make sense

[area51-escapee]

It’s really interesting because I’ve been around tumblr since around 2011/2012, and started seeing more social justice related stuff around 2013/2014-2017 and during that time. Trying to explain how the general demonization of men on this site was harmful to multiple groups and not at all helpful to feminism would get you labeled a bad feminist at best and a hateful anti sjw alt right MRA type at worst. At that time I really only remember the anti sjw accounts being the ones to bring up the topic of how it was harmful to various groups and how yes, there are real problems that men face that people should care about, and I’ve noticed that has changed a lot in the past couple years, especially with people drawing attention to how a lot of “all men are inherently bad” posts are coming from terfs who aren’t just talking about men. I think it’s really genuinely very refreshing to see and I’ve never liked generalizing a whole group based on a thing they cannot control. A person’s actions are much more important that an aspect of themselves they were born with.

[genderqueerdykes]

if you genuinely believe that trans men and cis men are enemies and need to be pitted against each other: you drank the terf juice.

if you believe that pre transition or never transition transfems "look too threatening" or "too cishet" or "unsafe for other queers to be around": you drank the terf juice.

if you misgender butch trans women and multigender transfem lesbians and remove them from lesbian spaces: you drank the terf juice.

if you police transfems and call them "loud," "aggressive," "mean," or "rude," just because they have deep voices or high testosterone bodies: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that all men and mascs need to be barred from entry into non binary, lesbian, and other queer spaces: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe all cishet men are inherently queerphobic, evil, and dangerous to be around: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe trans and cis men are inherently violent and dangerous because they're men: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that cis-passing trans men aren't queer and/or don't belong in queer spaces because they look and sound "too cis" or 'threatening': you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that anyone who is AMAB and/or has a penis is inherently violent: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe it's okay to profile strangers to assume they're cis or het (or ANYTHING): you drank the terf juice.

literally ALL of these things are terf ideologies and actions. in order to accept ourselves and be accepted, we must accept that just like how our identities are not inherently violent- neither are cis and het folks'.

blaming cis mens' gender instead of their actions and behaviors for their dangerous and queerphobic actions removes the responsibility from the individual man. that was one man who did something wrong.

hold that individual person accountable for their actions and leave their gender and/or birth sex out of it- they're irrelevant to the situation.

making trans women, intersex trans women, transfems, nonbinary people, genderqueer people, etc. uncomfortable by policing how they look and sound is not the way to go. policing transfems and preventing them from queer spaces is not the way to go. policing trans men and mascs and preventing them from entering spaces they belong in is not the way to go.

excluding queer men and mascs from the communities they rightfully belong in isn't helping anyone. cis gay men need community. cis asexual men need community. cis aromantic men need community. cis polyamorous men need community. genderqueer, non binary, and gnc cis men need community. cis bisexual/mspec men need community. trans women who are also men need community. trans men need community. intersex men need community. the list goes on.

community means working together, not fragmenting ourselves off into the tiniest micro pockets imaginable for the sake of "Safety". running afraid from every. single. man and masc you encounter will not keep you safe- femmes and women are capable of abuse. we cannot fall into this "woman good man bad" trap. being afraid of a group of people wholesale doesn't help you heal from whatever trauma you have. it's going to keep you scared for the rest of your life. it's best to move on and stop judging strangers for features they can't help or didn't ask for.

[st-dionysus]

What is transandrophobia and why is it called that? By the guy who coined it and is kind of tired of seeing it defined in the opposite of what it's meant to describe.

In it's most simple definition. Transandrophobia is the way that the fear of men impacts the material reality and mental/physical health of transgender men.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity effects transgender men’s ability to access queer and transgender spaces, sexual assault survivor resources, and reproductive health care.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity holds back transgender men from transitioning or from presenting as masculine.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the disowning of transgender men from previous found families and the isolation of transgender men in general.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men and/or masculinity has resulted in people using their trauma as an excuse for abusing transgender men, physically, sexually, and emotionally.

Transandrophobia, is the way the fear of men has resulted in people refusing admittance to “male identified people” to certain queer events and safe spaces.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of masculinity has led to people assuming that butches across the gender spectrum are inherently violent and hyper-sexual.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men and/or masculinity results in the forced feminization of transgender men in queer spaces, with the insistence that those who refuse to feminize themselves to make others more comfortable should not be allowed entrance to certain queer spaces.

Transandrophobia, is the way that the fear of men has led people to assuming that butches who were assigned female at birth, are at risk of becoming the enemy (a man) and should not be given the same amount of trust as a feminine presenting cis woman.

Transandrophobia, is when that the fear of men being in women’s spaces prevents trans men and non-binary people who present as male from accessing gynecological care, abortions, and birth control.

Transandrophobia, is when transgender men must make themselves smaller to be seen as “one of the good ones” and it is when a trans man who is loud or sexual or Black or Brown or too masculine is seen as a threat to the safety of other transgender people.

Transandrophobia, is when transgender men who speak up about how the normalized way of speaking ill about men in feminist and queer spaces has made them activity suicidal, de-transition, or prevented them from transitioning, are told to “shut up and sit down” or “good.”

Transandrophobia, is not when trans men face misogyny – that is just a trans man facing misogyny (which all trans men face, because misogyny and sexism effects everyone, not just women). However, transandrophobia is when someone says that trans men don’t face misogyny because they are men, make claims that trans men benefit from misogyny since they are men, or insist that trans men’s experiences with misogyny aren’t as valid or as bad as when a woman or non-male person faces misogyny.

Transandrophobia, is when trans men’s struggles are dismissed as being less important, because men don’t need help or men already have help or men don't face real struggles.

Transandrophobia, is when people refuse to acknowledge that the patriarchy see’s transgender men as failed women and not men, which is why transgender men do bot benefit from the patriarchy but are instead violently and systematically punished by it.

Transandrophobia is that and a whole lot more, I would need a book to describe the entirety of the issue, I have been writing a book on it for over six years and re-writing it over and over because if I say it wrong, or say it with too much emotion, or not enough emotion, or with too many numbers, or not enough numbers, and publish it without using perfect wording, trans men might not get another chance to speak up for a long ass time and we will once again have to find new words to say "Pretty please treat me like a human being and let me have access to the things I need in order to survive." and "Pretty please consider that if a large group of people from a minority are telling you they are being oppressed by these actions and fears, then maybe you should believe them or at least the material statistical evidence of that oppression, since you probably trust journals more than us describing our reality and lived experiences."

[trans-androgyne]

I don't know how to handle getting treated like a monster for my gender identity. When I was thought I was a cis queer woman I was considered harmless, but now that I openly prefer masculinity I'm treated like an inherent danger to others, especially women. "Trans guys without mood stabilizers should be illegal." "Kill all men including trans men because one of them hurt me." "You really are the men of the trans community--just as dangerous and misogynistic as cis men." "Trans guys need to accept that women won't feel safe around them." "Testosterone makes you aggressive and violent." Why do I have to prove I'm One Of The Good Ones or be held responsible for every awful thing any guy has done ever. Though to many people it seems like there are no good transmascs period no matter what we do.

[genderkoolaid]

there Has been a lot of work by feminists to talk about men's issues and needs However. this simply does not mean that All feminist spaces and feminists are good at doing this. like. feminism has, historically, had a lot of issues with how to address the relationship between women and men, and how to fit trans and imtersex people into an inherently binarist framework of gender relations.

once again there is no way to address certain issues in feminist spaces without talking about the treatment of men and masculinity as something innately suspicious and negative if not outright hostile. this has been an issue for years. i need people to stop going "why are feminist spaces so hostile to trans women and men! why are nonbinary people seen as male treated worse! why do so many men see feminism as a space hostile to their existence*!" and then get defensive when people point out that maybe we still have some work to do on creating a feminist vision that is not innately binarist, that does not view maleness and masculinity as The Other if not The Enemy.

*yes many cis men see feminism like this because it questions the patriarchy which they still rely on for a sense of identity and self worth, and they are intimidated by the amount of self-reflection feminism asks of them. this can be true at the same time that many feminist spaces do, in fact, make themselves hostile to men, and fail to really promote an anti-patriarchal male perspective that would make more cis men feel that feminism is "for them." many self-proclaimed feminists still rely on patriarchal tools like mocking penis size which is not only part of violent intersexism, but it's also a failed opportunity to resist an aspect of patriarchy which largely impacts men and show what we mean when we say feminism is for everyone. we CAN do better.

[eris-abomination]

Not to be patronizing, but I’m convinced some of y’all don’t know what radfems actually are. Every time I try to speak about how dangerous and reductive radical feminism is as an ideology, I get paragraphs upon paragraphs written trying to “errm actually” me and defending them, so let me clear things up.

Radical feminism’s core belief centers around a form of gender essentialism: that men are inherently violent oppressors and that the patriarchy is to blame for every problem that befalls women and fems. This is not to say that the patriarchy isn’t a major contributor to misogyny, but it completely excludes intersectionality from the equation and dovetails into TERFy rhetoric very easily.

In blaming every issue on the patriarchy alone, radical feminism erases the very real contributions of racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, etc from our struggles in society. Oppression and privilege are extremely complex and fed into by many biases and phobias upheld by our societal systems, not just the “boys vs girls” mentality that radfems emphasize. The main pitfall of this ideology is the way it places all men and all women on an equivalent level of privilege or oppression respectively, rather than the unfortunate reality: for example, a cishet man having inherent privilege and hypothetical oppressing power over a queer or trans man, or an abled woman having privilege over a disabled woman.

Radical feminism also tends to veer into a defeatist mindset: men are inherently oppressive and women are inherently at the bottom of the societal totem pole, so what’s the point of trying to dismantle these systems? The radfem “solution” is to ignore the nuances of intersectionality and create divisions between men and women as a “safety measure” which, as mentioned earlier, opens the door for TERF-like and tribalist ideologies to take root (bathroom bans, label politics, “gender traitor” rhetoric, and categorization of trans and nonbinary people into their AGABs). The “solution” of creating purely woman-only spaces fails to acknowledge that women can also be oppressive toward other women, but it’s still viewed through the lens of “the patriarchy can’t affect things here because we’re all on the same level of disadvantage”.

I don’t write all this to accuse all self-proclaimed radfems of being knowingly malicious or bigoted, but it seems that not many people fully understand the true implications and reductiveness of what radical feminism really is. If you managed to get through this whole post (congratulations!), I invite you to examine your own ideologies and the biases and faults behind them, and hopefully grow, change, and become a more nuanced and open-minded person from there.

Edit: I can and will delete your comments if you’re incapable of being civil (or scrolling away or blocking me like a normal goddamn person) 💕💕💕

[imtrying-ok]

I'm from a family where women are in charge of most things, finances, the house, bills getting paid on time, important administrative and historical documents and papers, family heirlooms (men are so dumb, they can't be trusted with that stuff!), the children. In my subconscious mind, women work harder. Women go to work everyday and men are just lazy slobs. All men are good for is a (smaller, obviously) supplementary income, having kids with, maybe cooking, and only sometimes emotional companionship. (I am serious - this has been said to me in different ways by multiple family members, from my mom to my great grandmother)

I was told I was so lucky to be born a girl, because I get to join this long line of women. That they were so lucky I was born a girl so they had someone to continue a legacy with. That they could dream of never loving a boy the same way. That they could never let a man continue this legacy, he's too dumb! He'd lose everything. He wouldn't care about the legacy, obviously. He'd just ruin it like all men do. They're so glad I'm around, I'll inherit everything and take great care of it.

I wanted to wear a suit to my father's wedding and they were scared. They heard me going by my gender neutral last name instead of my feminine first name (inherited from my greatx5 grandmother no less) and they hated it. "Don't you want to be a girl?" But I know what they really meant was "don't you want to be what I think you should be?" Then my grandmother talks about how she's scared she won't have anyone to inherit her house, her things, the pieces of history she takes care of (a piece of the Berlin wall, an old German family Bible, my family's passports from the 1800s, a handwoven tapestry, etc... "old country" stuff that every European immigrant family has laying around for some reason. But that's for another post.)

I know why it apparently can't go to me anymore. I've been 'tainted'. My beautiful feminine qualities have been pushed out by my desire to be a handsome untrustworthy kind violent man (they can't even call me that) other . They could handle if I was a lesbian, it was only logical to like other women, and my mother dated women as often as she dated men throughout my life. They could handle if I didn't want kids, in fact, I was told explicitly to not have them in the past (thanks grandma), they can betray you and leave you heartbroken (thanks mom). They couldn't handle me being a man.

There is some kind of inherent quality of being a man that makes you bad. And I was choosing to betray them and myself.

Needless to say, I don't feel very comfortable in trans or feminist spaces.

[cardentist]

I hate the man vs bear question, because the only time I've seen a man use it to talk about his experience being raped there were literally hundreds upon thousands of replies victim blaming him and insisting that being raped is a thing that can only happen to women and he should've just "manned up"

but I can't talk about that without being derailed instantly because losers and incels want to use the talking point as an opportunity to complain about gold diggers and women cucking them or whatever the fuck

we can never Actually have a productive conversation about how sexism negatively impacts men, Especially victims and marginalized people, because sexist men will always take the spotlight and radfems will use it as an excuse to pretend like these two groups are the same.

I think it's a bad thing to present all men as inherently predatory, not because of "not all men" bullshit or whatever, but because people use gender essentialism as an excuse to hurt minorities and silence victims. I think it's Bad to present a kind of suffering that anyone can experience as unique to one kind of person and then mock and belittle people who come out to talk about their experiences with it.

I think "rape is a thing that Happens to women and something that men Do" is an inherently flawed framework that has only been used to justify violence. against men of color, against trans women, against male victims, against marginalized men. because "men are inherently violent and can only hurt women, not be hurt by them" is used to justify framing a Type of man (or someone who's perceived as a man) as dangerous and in need of being Removed.

[spacelazarwolf]

what do you think of that man vs bear thing that’s been going around on tiktok?

i think it’s just yet another social media stunt to try to normalize radfem rhetoric in broader society.

people are trying to normalize the idea that men are inherently violent and dangerous, and with the way trans discourse has been headed over the last few years i hope people can understand that the idea that men (whether they mean “males” and are including trans women, or they mean “people who identify as men” and are including trans men) are inherently dangerous (because of their biology or the hrt they take or simply because of the word they use to describe themselves) is very cut and dry radfem rhetoric. it’s rhetoric that has been a huge motivation for a lot of the anti trans laws we’ve been seeing. not to mention the way racialized men, including cis men, tend to be targeted for violence because of this rhetoric.

so yeah i think people are falling head over heels for terf propaganda yet again and as someone who’s been the victim of misogynistic violence at the hands of several men, i’m tired of having to tiptoe around (particularly cis) women’s feelings while they normalize rhetoric that is getting me and my trans siblings and my poc friends harassed and killed.

[doberbutts]

It's astonishing to see people say "All fear of men is reasonable and okay, but you shouldn't be afraid of black people obviously" and you having to reply, "Hey, question? Aren't black men people?" Everyone clinging to their fear of men while never examining their actions which could harm men of color, in this case, black men who have historically been killed and lynched in great numbers by white women weaponizing this fear to end their lives. Read the Will to Change! bell hooks talks about this! She talks about how white people, especially white men, have distracted from their own patriarchal masculinity by portraying violent women-haters as aberrant and abnormal (So, clearly Black men are more likely to be dangerous because they're already aberrant and abnormal in our white supremacist society). PLEASE understand your fear isn't fucking value-neutral and can be inherently be trusted!!!

Also, on the topic of patriarchal masculinity, I think that term really encompasses what we're talking about when we say male privilege is highly conditional. It's also what makes this uncritical man-hating so devious. Like, bell hooks says, contemporary feminism has provided a place for some women to construct a sense of self outside of sexist expectations, but the same can't be said about men. So by distrusting trans men, telling them they should accept feeling unwelcome in queer spaces because "your identity as a man means you have to earn other's trust (even if you haven't done anything other than exist), you're conflating transmasculinity with patriarchal masculinity. Which is so fucking damaging? Not to mention how people love to destroy and hurt transmasc's emotional selves, the same rituals that bell hooks talks about which so severely damage cis men (who were the book's main topic), and we're doing this to a marginalized, queer group who face immense systemic oppression.

Just--I hate how we mutilate trans men's emotional selves, demonize them because we assume all men possess patriarchal masculinity. I hate how we can't talk about marginalized men because apparently, that means we believe in misandry, when in reality, we're trying to talk about how men of color are portrayed as the worst of masculinity to deflect from white men's violence.

Disclaimer: Sorry for this big ass ask. Just seeing you have to respond to people with a basic lack of understanding of intersectionality and who weren't subtle about their racism--gosh.

And the biggest issue is that I understand why the kneejerk reflex happens- there's a lot of men who have engaged in the most bad faith of bad faith discussions about men's issues and somehow have turned it all onto "so it's WOMEN'S fault things are like this" rather than "so how do we work together with everyone in society to break free", and so a lot of people have their guard up from the start and don't care to listen to the last bit because they think it's more of the same.

Unfortunately, all this will do is continue to make us spin our wheels. We are always stronger together.

[velvetvexations]

Can confirm I've been on here for years now and before Gamer Gate and then the rebirth of Terfism happened the widely accepted feminist talking point was that men suffer under the patriarchy and how we need to talk about that because one of the fastest ways to get cis men on our side was to show them we were already on their side!

I remeber posts with hundreds of thousands of notes talking about how men are assumed to be worse caregivers than women to the point that in custody battles even if the mother is beyond a shadow of a doubt the worst abusive mess ever and the dad is the embodiment of a perfect parent the kids will end up with the mom. It doesn't even matter if the dad says he wants the kids and the mom says she doesn't, the women still gets assumed to be the better caretaker!! This is misogyny effecting men!!

And I know MRAs are terrible but I remember a video going around talking about their recruitment points, like how more men die doing dangerous jobs and the draft or men getting no help when they've been abused by women and being assumed to be violent predators even when they haven't done anything and like yeah, they 100% came to the wrong conclusions about what causes the problems and what the solutions are bcs it's easier to act like women are the problem, but those problems as they were introduced in the early 2010s were actual problems feminism is trying to address, and if these men could see that we are fighting the same fights and join US we'd be stronger. There was a prominent internet feminist who got full on red pilled just by listening to men tell her about their real actual problems, and the time they pulled the rug out on blaming women it was too late, she was convinced, because yeah women aren't the real problem at the root of men's issues they do HAVE ISSUES. The trick is that they just need to tackle the patriarchy, not women. I also saw stuff that legit talked about how to recruit men by pointing out how badly the patriarchy "serves" them!! (GamerGate quickly ruined any and all salient points that existed in the MRA movement bcs the internet is a feedback loop and anger is easy/fun sadly but yeah I feel like it's weird to act like they were always wrong no matter what when they at least did point out real problems.)

And like RBG partially made her name in the courts defending a CIS MAN on the basis that he was being discriminated in a way a CIS WOMAN would not have been, and the ruling allowed for insane amounts of progress for women. A man not being allowed a tax credit to hire a nurse for his bedridden mother is one of the first things that challenged discrimination on the basis of sex in America. But sure men ONLY gain benefits from the patriarchy. It NEVER hurts them too!! And helping them won't benefit us!!! Making them our allies is silly they should all shut up 🙄

Hell back in the 2010s I still remember seeing trans men talk about how horrible and alienating it was for all of their female friends and family to suddenly start acting like they were a threat, and not just pointing out the inherent transphobia, the guy went on to talk about that they finally get why cis men are the way they are, they suffer from systemic emotional neglect. And yeah that obviously does not mean women owe them emotional avaliablity and sex, but maybe the patriarchy telling men to be big tuff guys who never hug or cry or like anything even a little girly HURTS THEM and is a direct cause of a LOT of the problems we're dealing with rn!!! There was a whole study about how widows tend to live a lot longer after their husbands because they have friends and family to lean on and weren't taught to suppress their emotions, meanwhile widowers tend to die VERY quickly after their wives because they no longer have someone who it's okay for them to be open and emotional around, and not having someone you can do that with KILLS PEOPLE. People were saying again, this does not mean women HAVE to take on all their problems, but maybe that we need to stop assuming men don't need emotional support and teach our sons to not be afraid of being ulnerable, honest people because systemic emotional neglect IS BAD FOR YOU ACTUALLY.

These were ACTUAL conversations that swept this damn site. This was the direction feminism was going in. We were on the cusp of a beautiful age of 4th wave feminism with the knowledge that the patriarchy seves no one well and free the nipple and no gender segregated bathrooms and sports, and now just pointing out that we need to maybe understand the ways men struggle under the patriarchy if we've ever going to have them join and help us build a better world gets my inbox flooded with both terfs and so called progressive feminists calling me a gender traitor for being willing to admit men arent the source of all the world's ills and WE NEED THEM ON OUR FUCKING SIDE. I used to proudly call myself a 4th wave feminist back when people still claimed to be of the 3rd, and now idk what I even am. A bell hooks and leslie finberg feminist I guess, since they actually seemed to get it.

Yeesh. Anyway sorry that got heated. This has just ruined my brain. I do not understand where tf we went wrong, bcs hell back in the day we also pointed out how TERFs were wrong to want men and people they perceive as men and those "tainted" by men put to death for existing so they could build their stupid white supremacist wombyn utopia. We KNEW hating men just for being men was wrong and regressive and hurt maringalized men and did NOTHONG to push feminism forward. We talked about the issues that men face and how to raise our sons to be better. But idk I guess Gamer Gate and the Incel movement took off right as TREFs figured out the whole ace and truscum discourse thing wasn't working and they just needed to doctor their arguments against men better and radical feminism took off and this entire site regressed 1000 years and thinks trans men of all people are just as bad as cis men and trans women have a monopoly on an entire axis of oppression like?????

And I'm not putting the blame squarely on anyone aside from the radfems who started this shit but it does NOT surprise me that we are seeing a massive resurgence of biphobic, transmedicalism, and aphobia since half the queer discourse I see these days is anti-transandrophpbia assholes just word for word repeating the kind of blatant aphobia and truscumery that would have gotten you suplexed off the face of the earth in the 2010s with the identities swapped. Just word for word monosexist aphobic shit. Legit is giving me flashbacks, it's insane.

I have never in my life been more disappointed in my community of queer feminists. This is masks all over again. Like is this how kids who grew up evangelical feel when they realized actually the adults didn't mean literally love all your neighbors silly just the Correct ones?? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. What the hell happened to us.

Thank you for writing all this anon, you put enough work in it I'm gonna toss it in the tags, I think it deserves to be seen. <3

The problem with MRAs was never that they believed men had problems too, but that they used certain things - like their disadvantage in custody hearings, for instance - as a cudgel in a malicious crusade against a target they hated anyway for not fucking them. Now with as quick as people are to say things like "what, are you saying androphobia exists too?????" it feels as though we've completely forgotten the actual reason we ever hated MRAs to begin with.

It's the same with the dating article where the most basic possible interactions between two adults mutually seeking a hook-up were taken to be pick-up artistry.

[genderqueerdykes]

if you are a trans man or masc, masculine nonbinary, genderqueer, genderfluid or other gender non conforming identity, masc gay, a bear, a butch, stud, or boi, or other masculine queer person and don't feel welcome in any queer spaces, you're not alone.

the communities both irl and online have become EXTREMELY hostile toward mascs and men to the point of straight up excluding us and changing their wording to justify their violent exclusion. from renaming nonbinary spaces to "femme & them" and "she+" spaces, to telling men & mascs that they would "Scare" the women and "nonbinary" folks just by being there, as if masculinity and manhood are inherently traumatizing to be around.

masculine and male nonbinary folks have it so hard- most nonbinary spaces are almost definitely women's spaces who also conflate womanhood with nonbinaryhood, and often times just view nonbinary people as confused women. we are not inherently traumatizing to be around: masc enbies need places to go. we are still nonbinary and still trans and still queer for fucks' sake

nonbinary has never and will never mean femme or woman-adjacent inherently. nonbinary means what it means: people who don't or refuse to adhere to the gender binary, regardless of what side it is. masculinity is included in this, femininity is not the only way to be nonbinary.

masc queers do not have to bend over backwards to try to be more feminine and thus "less threatening" in order to have places to go. that's dysphoric and just inaccurate to a lot of queer folks' identity and presentation. it blows my mind because it makes no sense, anyway, even within the gay community, hypermasculinity has been present and even sought after by some people who find it very attractive, twunks, hunks, bears... but between the periods in queer history people started viewing masc gay leathermen and kinksters as the ones who were responsible for spreading AIDS and thus removing them from pride parades,

AND the lesbian separatism moment picking up to remove butches & male & masc lesbians from lesbian spaces identity, paving the way for modern rdical femniism, we've only entered a downhill landslide of hating men and mascs and ultimately trying to erase us from the queer community entirely.

the queer community is not the "women & femmes community". the queer experience is broad and vast, it includes a wide variety of masculine and male experiences, as well as genderfluid, multigender, completely ungendered and other gendered experiences. the lesbian, trans, bisexual, nonbinary, gay and general queer communities aren't the "safe place to hide from men & mascs community" like estranged rdfems and terfpilled trans folk like to tell you they are.

this is the QUEER community and it includes ALL forms of queerness, masc, femme, butch, male, neutral, bigender, neutral, and all. he/shes and he/hims and he/theys and he/its and so on are just as much of a part of this communities as she/hers and they/thems. you can't cast a blanket of "inherently abusive" over all men and mascs and one of "inherently abused/incapable of being abusive" over all women and femmes because that just traps you in a fantasy land that doesn't exist AND it prevents mascs and men from getting the help, resources and community they NEED.

men & mascs are hurt and abused by women & femmes every day and we refuse to speak about them because we live under a white cisheteronormal patriarchy and have complaints about how that functions. the complaints are legitimate but assuming that all men and mascs are oppressing all women and femmes and that women can never be oppressive is a false as hell narrative that actively damages people.

enough is enough. this mindset is hurting people. it's leaving masc and male queers to be estranged, harmed and even dead. i care about you if you're being affected by this mentality and these behaviors. you deserve community, safety, and a sense of belonging, you do belong, even if we struggle to form our own spaces due to unjust hatred. we will do our best to band together and keep each other safe. we must

[angelellipsis-devilofdots]

the dumbest points ive seen from terfs and radfems that do nothing except make this movement look ridiculous:

trans men are misogynistic gender traitors who become men because they hate women and want to be privileged. they will DEFINITELY never experience oppression for their intersectionality at all! they will never be the victims of transandrophobia and lingering misogyny. because ALL MEN live easily, duh

it's okay to sexualize transmascs and then see them as innocent little girls who were manipulated into hating themselves for being women

sex involving kink between consenting adults is ALWAYS bad and is NEVER excusable even though both/all people involved EXPLICITY and ENTHUSIASTICALLY consent to said kinky sex

all men are automatically disgusting and evil, and masculinity is inherently gross and negative (even when it is healthy masculinity and NOT the toxic and fragile kind!)

taking testosterone hrt will not make you a man, but if you were born with a vagina, are raised female, identify and live as a woman, and then find out later in life that you have a higher testosterone level than the average cis woman, you are indisputably a man

top surgery is misogyny because it mutilates the breasts of innocent women. it definitely isn't actually a life-saving gender-affirming surgery that is completely consensual and something that people work hard to receive access to and is proven to be a procedure that statistically has a <1% regret rate

if you feel sexual attraction or kinks you're a pervert with unresolved trauma and you just want to sexualize yourself. but also asexuals are all just confused teenagers who want to be special and sex is what makes us human or something

becoming the oppressor is absolutely a valid form of liberation! it is in fact okay to commit violent acts against cis men and transgender people! it definitely IS some kind of salvation and ISN'T some kind of fucking petty form of hatred that could traumatize future generations

all cis women should feel threatened and endangered by the fact that a woman with a penis exists in the same space as them

if cis women want to be happy they cannot get a husband. marriage to a man is an act of self hatred and they will regret it forever and it is internalized misogyny. (unfortunately this is a real thing i've seen terfs and rads say. i wish i was making this up)

seriously. why are some people still listening to these idiots.

[trans-androgyne]

Funny enough, some of the best writing I have seen about transandrophobia is by someone actively denying its existence.

Though in this article the author of "Transmisandry Is Not Real" seems to refuse to believe it in some crucial ways, bigots see both gay men and trans women/fems as failing the male gender role (to be masculine men and attracted to women) and both lesbians and trans men/mascs as failing the female gender role (to be feminine women and available to men).

He addresses the related 2020 study showing that "survey respondents throughout the world are more vocally prejudiced against queer men than they are against queer women." He then goes on to describe how this does not mean that queer women are less oppressed, but that "anti-lesbian prejudice often takes the form not of explicit hatred, but rather the view that queer female desire is illegitimate, unserious, and something temporary that women can be pressured and assaulted out of." It is a more insidious but not less violent form of oppression. Now, I'm just going to add some words in brackets to the below paragraphs so you see what I mean.

Queerness is often viewed as an inherent part of who gay men [and trans women/fems] are, making them irredeemable predators and perverts in the eyes of the homophobes, who then attempt to violently drive them out of public life. But when it comes to women [and trans men/mascs], queerness is seen instead as a flaw that can be “fixed,” in order to restore a woman’s [or perceived "female's"] availability to men.

Straight society pushes queer men [and trans women/fems] out, but it rarely allows women [and trans men/mascs] to escape. Instead, it conditions them to prioritize the interests of men, to evaluate themselves through their desirability to men, to attempt to find something redeemable or attractive about men [or about their own womanhood and femininity], and to submit themselves to men’s romantic advances [and desirability to men] regardless of their true feelings [about their sexuality and their gender]. It’s a quiet, insidious form of prejudice that can pervade the lives of queer women [and trans men/mascs] so thoroughly that many women [and trans men/mascs] don’t even realize they’re interested in women [or not actually women, respectively] for decades... that’s certainly not because they are less oppressed or face less bigotry.

Thank you, Dr. Devon Price, for putting so many of my thoughts on transmasc oppression into words. I did not add "cis" before the terms men and women in his original text because this same kind of queerphobia can also certainly also apply to queer trans women and queer trans men (who are pressured to fit into these same gender roles if they want to be respected as their gender). But it very much highlights the quieter but deeply oppressive ways trans men and transmasculine people are expected to make ourselves available to men in every way and punished if we are not.