#that's just how conversation works

[not-poignant]

Hi, Pia! I am thinking of going the same route as you - free chapters on AO3, then Patreon - for my historical m/m romance projects. Could you share a little about your journey, and how did you manage to gain visibility within the originals section of AO3 (I know it's not easy)?

Hi hi!

We've talked a little over at Subscriptions for Authors I think! *waves* :D

Okay firstly, i don't know if any of this is going to be very helpful, because to tl;dr it - I didn't set out to be a professional author when I started this, and I wasn't even trying to be a professional when I started my Patreon (though I did approach it seriously, like I wanted to treat my readers well). I didn't believe I could be one, my impostor syndrome was so epic I literally started an entirely new AO3 account and kept it secret from my main account because I believed all the people being nice to me about my writing were somehow just lying to me because they felt sorry for me.

That's...

That's a whole lot of impostor syndrome insanity. But I've always been pretty honest about having mental illness so....

Re: my journey...

I started out in fanfiction. I started writing Rise of the Guardians fanfiction (a two part serial called From the Darkness We Rise & Into Shadows We Fall) and it went viral (I did not expect this) and I put in several original characters to flesh out the world, because I added a Seelie/Unseelie Court element that wasn't in the original movie or the books.

Two of those original characters had roles as semi-significant ensemble characters. One was a terrible villain who is defeated by the other, who is the Seelie King (also defeated by the main characters of the fic but *coughs* anyway).

I started getting people asking me what was going to happen to those two characters, especially once people found out they had a relationship history together prior to the events in the fanfic. I mostly put those people off - I fully intended to keep just writing fanfiction - until finally I decided to write some fic of those two characters. It was like...revenge hatefucking, lmao. I wrote three chapters of that, and then more, and then finally realised I couldn't give them the tragic ending I'd planned to, and that I'd have to actually figure out how the hell to save them from their own machinated doom.

And that became the first book in my original Fae Tales series - Game Theory.

It was my amazing readers who asked me to make this Tumblr, my amazing readers who asked me to write that original story, and they were the ones who asked me to make a Patreon (and then a Ko-Fi), and so in a way, they were the ones who let me know when I was ready to try making this work in a (slightly) more official capacity. They were the ones who believed in me enough to keep me doing this, and they still are. *waves to you all*

They were the ones who gave me visibility, I don't know that I did anything specific to make that happen, except writing the stories, turning up, and listening to them.

It's a very weird way of doing it and I don't know that anyone else has ever done it quite that way like this. I feel like a massive outlier in that sense. I don't relate to anyone who is starting out in professional subscription with no readers because I could never do that, my lack of confidence wouldn't let me. But there's aspects I think any author can replicate: I reply to all my commenters (except the trolls), because they're great and I want to support connection, community, and conversation. I embrace fandom and love all transformative works, and also, like 99% of my writing is free on AO3. (You don't have to make everything free, but it certainly doesn't hurt on AO3).

I mostly finish my serials and folks can trust my happy/hopeful endings and they can trust my hurt/comfort. And I'm pretty communicative! As you can tell by how much I'm rambling right now x.x I intentionally provide a safe space for queer people and neurodivergent people as much as possible, and write a lot of representation for us. I set out to make a space I would personally feel comfortable in. That might not work for everyone, but it works for those who stay.

From there though, I'd say a lot of visibility came from word of mouth, writing chapter by chapter over time (serials naturally pick up readers simply because they're often at or near the top of a tag or fandom category on AO3 - there is NO algorithm there), sometimes sorting by kudos, and me just posting about random stuff on Tumblr with good tags.

I still write fanfiction on another account (my impostor syndrome account) that has also had some people trying my original fiction. There's quite a few people who came directly from fanfiction to the original fiction because the themes were the same!

I didn't have the confidence to intentionally try and be a professional writer. When I started writing that fanfic I was writing it because I was depressed, sad, and I'd quit an unsatisfying job as a professional artist (I loved the art and my clients, I could never make the income part work). I didn't want to be a professional writer. I was writing as hooky, as escape from my real life, and as 'oh god I just need some hurt/comfort and I can't find what I want so I'll write it.'

To this day, I still write fanfiction as an escape, it's partly why it's now on a separate account to my original stuff (but even plenty of my original fic is indulgent and self-escapist in nature, which is maybe why other people find it escapist and cathartic as well).

In writing, financially, it makes more sense to publish books, or do serials-into-books, and develop a backlist of novels alongside the serials. I don't do that. I should, I plan on starting soon. I can point out a lot of the things that I either did wrong, or that I can see a way of doing better, because I didn't set out to be a professional writer, and I still put 'keeping it fun' and 'the readers' ahead of 'making money.' I'm not very mercenary and I make financially not great decisions in favour of 'but I enjoy it more this way.'

(That's partly because I am really very ill, and I can't afford to make myself sick through my work, and not enjoying it is the fastest way to do that).

What I do know is how to help create a community, though. And how to encourage and try and care for that community of people. How to respond to what they want and sometimes don't want, alongside what I want and don't want. How to have boundaries in that space. Well, I'm still figuring it out but I think I'm more comfortable with it than I used to be!

I also don't want to make it sound like I didn't know about writing before this. Long before doing serials for 10 years, I did creative writing and scriptwriting (among other things) at university. I wrote very technically correct short stories with sad little tragic endings that won awards and sometimes decent cash prizes. I hated it, and it put me off writing for years afterwards. I felt trapped in trying to write the 'correct' way. I am entirely unsurprised that to this day I reject standard formulas for novel lengths, and that in order to write, I kind of have to break a lot of the rules I was taught.

But I was taught how to write 'correctly' by Australian standards back in the early 00s (very spare, evocative prose). These days I follow a lot of scriptwriting / television drama beats in serials and have always really enjoyed doing it that way. :D

I'm meant to be talking about some of this in the Subscriptions for Authors podcast tomorrow and it's going to be a mess, as you can tell, lmao.

(There's something to be said about the lightning-in-a-bottle moment where I just wrote a fanfic I thought everyone would hate in a popular fandom and people were just ready for that story and it took off. I had no idea how to deal with it and it was very overwhelming and I had a bit of a breakdown a year and a half later over it. It's no coincidence that a year into the Patreon I paused it for 1.5 years and walked away because I couldn't handle it. But then I did some growing up and came back and figured it out.

But yeah I didn't do any of this the right way, or in a super intentional way. The only part I know I did well was supporting a community, and communicating with the people who turned up. And I did that for very selfish reasons - I wanted to be in a community, and I enjoyed meeting people who had things in common with me. I sometimes feel a little like a gremlin who just stumbled into a community and was like 'oh, um, I'm here, I guess.'

It's really everyone else who made it magical, but it did help that I think I am (in retrospect) pretty good at writing a hooky, addictive serial for the right kinds of readers. I cannot understate this enough -> learning how to write serials and exploring episodic television drama can be very helpful).

[bixels]

In the past, people in the Animal Crossing community would make fun of Tom Nook as a sleazy landlord. Since then, he's really rehabilitated his image as this 'heart of gold' businessman (he's the one who puts bells and furniture in trees for you to find! he adopted orphans! he donates to charity!), but New Horizons genuinely paints the most devious version of him.

He's successfully privatized settler colonialism: you pay HIM to move to a "deserted island" (which apparently the oceans in the AC world are just full of) and start a colony that he is directly invested in. At best he's running a weird vacation package scam (you arrive on the island with no money and in debt for "using his services"). At worst, he's using you to set up company towns. For god's sake, he literally has his own fake currency that he forces you to use to pay off your debt. But don't worry, he's repackaged it in a way that definitely doesn't sound like an MLM scam: the Nook Mileage Program!

You're no longer just his tenant or his temporary part-timer, you're his business lackey. The entire tutorial section of the game has you spending actual weeks running around completing tasks and doing hard labor to set up his colony. You're even tasked with preparing his properties and finding buyers for them. No, you aren't a tenant anymore. You work for the landlord. You are directly responsible for finding tenants for him. And he doesn't even fucking pay you. Not for setting up town hall and museum, or his nephew's shop –– which is the ONLY store on the entire island that sells necessities –– or bringing KK Slider to town, or helping populate his town. Not a single cent. No, actually, you have to pay HIM to BUY infrastructure like bridges and stairs and park benches. And all the while, he's telling you're the "resident representative"; you get to call the shots! That the reward is the community's progress. That what you're doing is in everyone's best interest (but most importantly, his).

Since NH's release, people have done a lot of legwork to say that Tom Nook isn't a capitalist while the game shows him at his very worst. He owns the only general store in town. You're forced to use a phone that he modified and branded as his own. Buy Nook-branded furniture and merchandise at the self-serve kiosk in the town hall, a governmental building! There's no conflict of interest here!

But hey, if you're tired of being the landlord/business mogul's goon, you can also find work as a deluxe resort home designer for a company that also pays you in their special company currency that can only be used to buy their products instead of a real salary! Because that's what the Animal Crossing franchise needs! More vacation homes!!!

[yashley]

Then why are you here? What is it you want? I want to free you.

[suja-janee]

I’ve been losing my mind over these guys recently

[dykedvonte]

You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

[limielle]

complexity

[1doesnotsimplyhavejust1fandam]

This has most definitely been said before, but we were robbed of the core four quarantining on-screen together at Buck’s place. ROBBED I say

[egophiliac]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE KNIGHT OF DAWN SPIRIT IS STUCK IN A RING

Please where does it say that I must know!!!!!!!

calling him "stuck" was mostly a joke (and I don't think he's really a floating little ghostie or anything, more like...just some kind of remnant?) but when he showed up at the end of chapter 5, I read it as his spirit being in/attached somehow to the ring, and I think the implication was meant to be that he (or what was left of him) was the one guiding Silver through Lilia's memories. that may be leaning a little too hard into my personal interpretation, but that's what I thought we were supposed to get out of it! 🤷

(now watch as they turn directly to the camera in the next update to explain that I've misunderstood everything and the ring is really a tiny little robot that we all must shrink down into to pilot) (which would actually be amazing, can we have that please)

[a-shade-of-green]

do you think it was weird for mike to go to california and experience his first byers family dinner in months just for it to be far too similar to wheeler family dinners

[lunarxq]

They'd do this. I swear. Just making a rock stack on the sleeping form of Orange.

These are if my OCs were to know the main cast. Dove meeting them by these methods and Hex by being associated with Dove.

[hamletshoeratio]

Pray for Amphitrite who is probably sat like this right now and is having to console her husband for the umpteenth time about Sally Jackson because her stepson asked him if he dreams about his mom, and instead of reacting normally her husband basically yeeted her stepson to Long Island because he can't deal with his emotions

[unnonexistence]

hermann thoughts: if i discredit newton and his approach enough, the martial won't give him the equipment for his kaiju drift, and i can protect him from himself. if he despises me for it, so be it. there is little i wouldn't sacrifice to see him safe.

newt thoughts: this is a Best Science competition and i have to Win

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

Ok, I think I have a pretty good idea of why a lot of Akechi's dialogue is... like that.

So, even before his confidant truly started, I noticed that he has a real knack for directing the flow of a conversation. This is very fitting for someone who is both a detective and skilled at interviews - when there is a topic and a goal, Akechi is in his element.

All this to say, he's actually kind of controlling when it comes to conversational flow. He probes for information, or turns the conversation around to a particular topic, usually the Phantom Thieves. He manages to take a few of Joker's dialogue options and spin them so they sound mildly incriminating in the context he's placed them in - the only way to truly get around this is to pick answers that feign indifference, and even then, that's more than a bit telling. He's clearly very good at this kind of thing.

But then, we get conversations where either Joker does something he didn't expect, or else he doesn't have a particular goal in mind - and the conversation stutters. In the first instance, Joker does something (a particularly egregious example is putting his glasses on him and fluffing his hair in rank 3) which both leaves him wrong-footed and no longer in perfect control of the situation. He just kind of... freezes, for awhile. It's hilarious. He has no idea how to respond.

He picks up control again in the phone call afterwards, having chosen to play into it, turning this "fooling the crowds" into a kind of game or secret between them. Nice save.

But in instances where there isn't an obvious topic and the goal is somewhat nebulous, for instance, that one Leblanc scene, it becomes pretty apparent that Akechi doesn't have the right "script" to go off of. Again, it's particularly notable in that scene, because I'm fairly sure he didn't have any specific reason to be at Leblanc, other than him looking for a quiet spot now that public opinion has turned on him. And because there isn't anything specific he's digging for, he kind of just ends up throwing things at the wall to see what will stick. Probing for any kind of recognizable reaction that he can jump on and work with, and that just doesn't really happen in this scene.

He references Sae, a woman in a respectable position, to Sojiro, but instead of that netting a welcome, it earns his ire, given Sae's recent actions against him. He then tries to greet Joker, his... rival? friend? enemy? person who at least seems to somewhat enjoy spending time with him? But Joker's responses are somewhat short, and Akechi practically wilts. He tries to commiserate by oversharing. He tries to involve Futaba and reaches out for the only topic of interest he can think of around "young people". He compliments the coffee. He compliments Joker. He tries to invoke that connection between them. None of it is really sticking, nor does it serve as a jumping off point for him to steer the conversation, or even really start one.

So, he basically just ends up having a one-sided chat with himself and then leaves. Hilarious. Also a little sad, if I'm being honest. It's really giving "guy with no friends who only knows how to speak to adults" energy. If there's no specific purpose to the exchange, or he is not in control of its direction, he seems to be kind of out of his depth. He succeeds only in being a little awkward and confusing, more than anything.

[dykephan]

this is something i think about so often. people love to pin all of the blame on phannies for invasive and weird behavior but everyone forgets how people that were supposed to be dan and phil’s colleagues, their equals, their friends even were doing a lot of the same shit on a much wider scale to much larger audiences than what the average phannie had

YEP!!

[moeblob]

No fun allowed.

[a2zillustration]

You weren't going to talk your way out of this one, Croissant.

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