#tgcf character essay

[bluberryblurays]

Why Shi Qingxuan IS TGCF's Plum Blossom

Heaven’s Plum Blossom❀➢

Throughout Heaven’s Official Blessing Shi Qingxuan’s character represents both uplifting joy and resilience in the face of unimaginable hardship, the same values as the plum tree’s blossoms. During his first appearance as a character, Qingxuan works to defend Xie Lian –our protagonist– and also defend the truth. He then is seen further assisting Xie Lian through their adventures in Ghost City, bringing a characteristic flair and positivity to the third realm. He then faces unimaginable hardship, imprisonment in the Black Water Demon lair, and loss of godhood. But even as a beggar, as a mere mortal. Qingxuan showcases that flair and positivity still kept his positive outlook, and still fought for the greater good.

We met Qingxuan disguised as a lady during the Banyue Pass arc of the series, and from that point forward he was characterized by the greater good and his positivity. When all of heaven is called to meet before Jun Wu in the Palace of Divine Might, Qingxuan defends Xie Lian and the true events of Banyue Pass unfazed by the threats from Pei Ming, unwavering in his defense. From these early moments we are informed that Qingxuan’s guiding ideals are pure, and that he is a agent for the greater good.

Immediately following this arc we see Qingxuan alongside Xie Lian venture into Ghost City to investigate a distress signal scene in that region. Another dangerous task he takes up even without being a combat focused martial god. Throughout this whole arc we see Qingxuan assist Xie Lian and face their challenges with bravery and optimism. He doesn’t shy away from the unknown dangers hidden in ghost city, all because someone else's life was on the line, someone they weren’t even sure was still alive. And all the while he keeps his characteristic flair, from costume changes to gender changes, Qingxuan’s look remains a defining portion of his identity.

We next time Qingxuan is seen of substantively is in the beginning of the Black Water arc, where he in ernest meets strife. From betrayal by his best friend, to discovery of his brother’s deceit, Qingxuan is repeatedly bombarded with hard choices, hard to swallow information, and we finally see his joyous stature falter. In the start of this arc, we see Qingxuan try to keep a hold on positivity while he jokes with Ming Yi and makes Xie Lian and Hua Cheng play a silly game. But after he is imprisoned twice, we see him react to his dangerous circumstance more logically, with fear. But even while in the disgusting prison of the Black Water Demon Lair, Qingxuan’s appearance still signals the purity he represents, his white robes being a point of contrast against the muddy prisoners around him. Even when he is knocked down, he still represents that perseverance.

The last appearance we see of Qingxuan is in the mortal capitol, where beaten, bruised and a beggar, he still offers to put his life on the line for others. He is the first, and the leader of the rest of his beggar colony to join the fight against the spirits of Mt. Tonglu. Qingxuan shows his dedication to the greater good, and his pure spirit with his unwavering desire to help others, a desire unswayed by being a mortal ejected from heaven. During this meeting we also see his symbolic appearance take importance again, with his bright teal eyes serving as the shibboleth to alert Xie Lian to his identity. Once again, even in times of extreme strife and when he has been knocked down as far as anyone could possibly be, he still wants to help, he still shines brightly if even through just his eyes.

Now this is all true, but how does that relate to the plum blossom? In the cultural traditions of both Chinese and Japanese culture, the Plum Blossom represents the ideals of perseverance and hope, just like Qingxuan. As the first flowers to blossoms in late winter and early spring, their bright colors poking out from the dead environment signal the hope of a forthcoming spring. Plum blossoms also represent purity of the mind and the ability to elegantly overcome challenges as they do when blooming in winter. Qingxuan’s ideals of the greater good, and his flair ever present when fighting against even the harshest of evils perfectly exemplifies this. 

Through both his actions and appearance Qingxuan’s identity is intrinsically that of the Plum Blossom. Perseverance through hardship, grace, bravery, elegance, hope and purity are words equally interchangeable between the two. When looking at Qingxuan, you shouldn’t just see him as a supporting character in the book series, but see him as the purest form of good and the most representative god in heaven of the greater good. His elegant problem solving, dedication to helping mortals, and commitment to the greater good even when in the face of indomitable evil shows why Qingxuan, falsely ascended, is most deserving of godhood. if you found this remotely interesting, give it a kudo on Ao3!

[jonathankai]

Post-canon Heavenly Emperor Pei Ming relies heavily on Ling Wen’s assistance due to his inexperience, which leads to Ling Wen’s workload being worse than it’s ever been. At some point Pei Ming looks at her and thinks: “I’ve seen ‘noble Jie’ in all sorts of sorry states, but this is new low. I’m not some kind of beast, I will try to go easier on her”. So he tries to do more things on his own, but once again due to his inexperience, he ends up with even more mistakes and messed up situations and Ling Wen’s tasks multiply and multiply.

Eventually Pei Ming stands in front of a pile of scrolls which completely obscures Ling Wen’s desk behind it. Pei Ming says: “I’m genuinely sorry. Can I?..” and reaches for a random scroll to handle whatever task is written on it.

A pale clawed hand writhes out from between the scrolls, grabs Pei Ming’s hand and a voice seeping equally with fury and horror hisses: “Do not. Touch. Anything. Here”.

Ling Wen is the only person who visits Jun Wu in his prison. She cries on his shoulder for hours and keeps begging him to break out, usurp the power and become the Heavenly Emperor again. Out of sheer desperation, she has prepared fifty different scenarios to help him do it. Unfortunately, Jun Wu feels very pacified after being defeated and plans to spend the next 2000 years contemplating life choices and playing cards maybe. He does appreciate Ling Wen’s company a lot though, so he gladly offers her his attention and condolences.

[crimsonmonsoon]

If you can’t tell I am entirely obsessed with this guy

[motivationisdead]

Interesting that the first case we see Xie Lian solve is basically about how love and devotion can go wrong.

Xuan Ji loves and worships Pei Ming to the point of obsession but it’s a selfish love. She doesn’t really care about how Pei Ming feels or what he wants—only about forcing her own feelings onto him. Even to the point of hurting herself in order to try and force Pei Ming to stay with her.

It’s a great contrast to how Hua Cheng handles his own love and devotion to Xie Lian. Hua Cheng’s love is one without expectations or demands. He’s never needed Xie Lian to return his feelings or even know of them because to him respecting Xie Lian’s autonomy and choices has always been more important.

Where Xuan Ji’s love is selfish Hua Cheng’s is selfless.

[fortune-maiden]

No no, don't spare me the 700 words of character rambling. I want to read it. Please?

IF YOU INSIST ANON =D

(admittedly it's closer to 600 words now after editing lol)

(this is partly cyrano au stuff, partly general character ramblings)

OK SO JING WEN.

In canon we don’t really know too much about his motives towards Ling Wen other than he wants to wear her down and destroy her reputation, and this stems from her showing him up in an essay contest. From the revision, we can also add plagiarism to his sins – he knows Ling Wen is more talented than him and despises her for it, especially because she’s a woman. (Although I think her lack of scholarly background also heavily plays into it. She isn't a woman from a family of scholarly officials. She's a shoeseller who writes letters on the side to make ends meet.)

For the Cyrano (but not really Cyrano) AU, I’ve added a layer of lust and entitlement towards his feelings for Ling Wen. He was the one who discovered her! He rescued her from a life in prison and made her a junior heavenly official! People remember her name and her story because of him! He’s her hero!

And he thinks that it’s about time she acts like it! Ling Wen wants to keep her head down and avoid him as much as possible. Do whatever job he wants from her and hope it keeps him in a good enough mood to leave her alone. Except Jing Wen wants to reduce her to the girl who was saved by him and devotes herself to him in return. It drives him crazy that she does not, and would even dare to get close to other men (PM & SWD) when she treats him (him!) with barely concealed contempt. He discovered her! She was no one before him and he is the only one who can have her! (and her talents!)

This is meant to contrast this AU’s Shi Wudu who also discovers her hidden talent when he exposes Jing Wen's plagiarism (mostly by accident) and immediately falls for her brain and wants to see what she can do with it when she isn’t tied down by Jing Wen and his ego. He finds her interesting, a match for himself (one of two people he’ll acknowledge as such), and rather than save her, he wants to give her the tools she needs to save herself because it’s much more fun for him that way. (This is also the real reason Bai Jing is not in this AU, because he treats Ling Wen with genuine kindness and doesn’t have any kind of pedestal or expectations in return and I think given everything she has been through at that point, that genuineness would be more attractive to Ling Wen over someone who wants to make a girlboss out of her. If there’s no BJ to compare against, I think LW would be a little more receptive to SWD’s feelings.) (Although both are interesting to think about.) (Also on a sidenote, even in AUs where he isn’t explicitly in love with her like this one, my SWD always ends up a bit of a dogged nice guy towards LW, ready to do anything she asks. This is partly because she helped him with the fate swap, and partly because he REALLY values her friendship. There’s a bit of a second-love aspect to their relationship from Ling Wen’s side because she knows SWD feelings towards her but it’s not the same love that BJ made her feel.)

And also because I just like talking about him, Jing Wen’s possessiveness and refusal to be shown up by a woman also kinda contrasts Pei Ming a bit, since he’s also a traditionalist and believes the guy should save the girl (and would be pushing SWD in that direction in his pseudo-cyrano role), but he’s also capable of acknowledging that if that doesn’t win her love, it doesn’t win her love (not that that’s ever been an issue for him personally) – and if a woman shows you up, the solution is to Do Better and show off properly to her later (this is him with the Rain Master. Anytime she gets the better of him, he sulks for a bit and then sets out to show her how cool he actually is. He wants her acknowledgment!)

[boobliker42069]

for art requesting... whoever from tgcf you think would fit the members of mcr (i guess in a modern au way but like. we're free balling SO)

BESTIE BAE U ARE SO REAL FOR THIS. it may come as no surprise to u that i have thought abt this subject extensively so here r my answers (please note these are Not the same with my tgcf modern hardcore au im working on rn but are very similar) (im insane) (details in tags)

[weirdocat83]

If you will write that essay I will read it

I wonder if Xie lian ever just *forgets* to eat or do normal human functions. I wonder this because I often forget to eat because quarantine left me with some bad habits and often I’m just too tired to want to get up. So I honestly wonder if sometimes Xie Lian forgets to eat sometimes and is only reminded when either his stomach makes a loud and noticeable noise or there’s pain from not eating.

[absolutesilly]

Tgcf fandom likes to talk about morals and such. We have folks who are the obvious clear good guys like xie lian and feng xin. And then we have hua cheng who is completely neutral. And then we get the morally grey like he Xuan and shi Wudu. And then we have mu Qing…. Which he’s not obliviously good like the other two xianle. But he’s never done an act that’s morally despicable… and he’s not like hua cheng either. What do you think of this topic? And what do you conclude on Mu Qing morality? lol sorry if this sounds like an exam question ☠️☠️☠️

hello there! :) i really appreciate the question!!

to start, i just wanna say that the tgcf fandom’s obsession with morals has always kinda driven me crazy, to be honest! in my opinion, flattening a whole bunch of very complicated characters into clear cut “good guys” and “bad guys” tends to feed into circular arguments about whose fave is the most morally pure and “right”—which isn’t very productive. having said that, though, mu qing’s specific morality really interests me, so let’s chat about it!

to me, mu qing is one of the most realistic characters in the novel, morality wise. he’s pragmatic and driven by self-preservation—which makes sense considering that he was born into extreme poverty with a sickly mother and an executed criminal for a father. he has to succeed and provide for himself and his mother, or they will starve. this is the reality he was born into! underlying all of his choices is the need to survive, at any cost.

but more than just being driven by self-preservation, he’s self-interested. mu qing is ambitious! he wants more for himself!! he isn’t satisfied just being someone’s servant, he wants to stand on his own as xie lian’s equal!!! (this is the crux of why they couldn’t actually be friends until the end of the novel… but that’s an essay for another day lmao)

anyway! mu qing protects himself first because he doesn’t trust anyone else to do it for him. he knows his worth and he leaves when he feels he isn’t being valued.

however, being self-interested does not mean that mu qing is selfish—though he’s often accused of it, both in-universe and out. i think many of the “selfish” accusations (from fans at least) come from the contrast between him and the rest of the xianle quartet, who are all nuts for self-sacrifice. feng xin is still struggling to break himself out of the “devoted bodyguard” mindset, 800 years after xie lian kicked him to the curb. hua cheng has LITERALLY died for his beloved, multiple times. and xie lian, of course, is Mr. Self-Sacrifice himself!

so naturally, a character like mu qing—who places a clear and high value on his own life—stands out a lot compared to them!

but it’s this very self-interest that makes his actions at the end of the novel SO powerful and so telling for who he is as a character. mu qing, THE self-preservation and self-interest guy, risks his life multiple times to save the people he cares about. he takes on a cursed shackle rather than betraying xie lian! he stays and tries to help everyone even though he fully believes that they all hate him and want him dead! he almost DIES just to buy xie lian a few more minutes of escape time! these are all acts of genuine love and selflessness.

of course, mu qing’s big self-sacrifice moments at the end aren’t the only time he does good!! he helps a lot throughout the novel—or at least attempts to help. many of his altruistic actions are either misconstrued by people’s assumptions about him/his own poor communication, or they blow up in his face. but he is very often trying to help!!

i think that’s the crux of mu qing for me: he’s trying. in spite of his cynicism, he KEEPS trying to be a good person! even though basically no one believes in him.

he’s not perfect. he’s mean and unpleasant (i say this with deep affection) and sometimes his pragmatism hurts the people he loves most. case in point: the 33 gods incident on the auspicious land. (though i could also write ANOTHER essay on how this was a complicated and unwinnable situation for both him and xl to be in, and ultimately i think his choice was sad but completely understandable… but i digress. essay for another time.)

anyway! if you’ve gotten this far! my overall verdict is: mu qing is complicated. he’s an imperfect person trying to be good, and i think that’s why i find him so interesting. he makes good choices and bad choices, as we all do!

i think a great many fans would do well to be a little more charitable in their assessment of him. when push comes to shove, many of us are more mu qing than we are xie lian. and there’s nothing wrong with that! ;)

[xieliansbignaturals]

Pinned post! (ok to reblog)

I talk about Mastodon every so often, so I tend to want a quick "and here's how to join" guide I can link to. Here it is! (updated Sep 2024)

First: the fandom side of Mastodon is great. There aren't a lot of us, but it's cozy and well-moderated. We have nice conversations and fun events. I'm currently running a daily mini prompt game, we've had ship bingo games go around, I want to get back to running character tournaments, and danmei read- and watch-alongs pop up every so often (there's a TGCF readalong ongoing). It's a bit like a cross between Tumblr and a Discord server.

Also: YOU CAN POST PORN. Full-on cocks in holes and everything! Or you can easily avoid it, because marking it as NSFW is required, and the filtering options are excellent.

Anyway. How to join:

The server I recommend is blorbo.social. It's an 18+ multifandom server, and it allows personal posts as well. The mods are fandom people who care about fandom creators (attributing works, preventing harassment, etc.) There is a 3,000 character limit per post (about 750 words, a bit longer than this post).

If that sounds good, here is a walk-through to minimize confusion. Of course, please do what you want, but I find that a lot of people want to be told what to do here!

Don't look at the app store yet.

Sign up on the website (blorbo.social/auth/sign_up) in your browser. No need to write an essay, just mention fandom

Wait for your approval email

NOW check the app store. If/when you want an app, search for "Ice Cubes" (on iOS) or "Moshidon" (on Android) (not "Mastodon")

When the app asks, your "server" or "instance" is "blorbo.social"

(You can also just use the website - I'm adding app instructions because everyone seems to want them!)

Add something to your profile to show that you're a real person, just like on Tumblr: you can add a profile picture and bio, and you can make your first post! You can introduce yourself and list tags for your favorite fandoms (it can be as simple as "hiiiii I like #TGCF!"). Pinning that post is also good.

Follow a bunch of people and hashtags, since there's no algorithm. You can search for "xieliansbignaturals", if you'd like to follow me!

From there, you'll figure it out! I'm very happy to answer questions, but I don't want to load this post with so much information that it's overwhelming.

I hope you'll consider joining us!

[mdzs-fanon-exposed]

Introductory post: Please read! :)

hi everyone! welcome to my very own MDZS-specific iteration of the unparalleled @svsss-fanon-exposed and @tgcf-fanon-exposed. this blog is designed to find the differences between canon and fanon in the Mo Dao Zu Shi/Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation fandom.

this blog is ENGLISH NOVEL CANON ONLY. although i may occasionally cite the drama or the donghua as the potential source for any misconceptions, the canons of these adaptations differ too much from the novel canon for my purposes (plus i haven't finished either one. whoops).

how this whole thing works:

send me an ask! is this thing you thought was canon actually fanon? is that fanon idea supported in the books? where? why? how?

i'll answer the ask with a rating, using SVFE's helpful rating system (explained below), and then go into detail. generally a post will include textual evidence supporting my rating, and possibly an analysis of what this means/where an idea came from.

i'll do my best not to introduce my own personal opinions or biases into the posts. if you have any textual evidence that you think disproves or otherwise contradicts one of my posts, i'm always happy to be corrected! HOWEVER. please do not argue with me or anyone else unnecessarily; this blog is not supposed to be a site for or source of discourse. i will block anyone who is repeatedly coming at me with bad faith. i'm doing this project for fun, and i want to keep it that way for everyone :)

posts will probably be sporadic so i don't burn myself out and lose interest. however, i want to try and answer as many questions as i can! submissions will open and close based on demand so i can stay on top of things.

some important things to keep in mind:

i'm not here to dunk on anyone's headcanons, and i am fully supportive of everyone's creative choices in the fandom!! (in fact i have many headcanons myself.) DO NOT harass anyone for their interpretations of the series. my purpose here is just to clarify whether certain ideas are textually supported, NOT to give an opinion on them.

i'm doing this blog for fun, so i'll be treating it as a casual project. i will only be using the official english translation of the novels, with the supplementary exception of the exiled rebels fanlation. i don't speak any chinese, so i will not be using the untranslated raws or any non-english fandom sources in my posts. although i'll be doing research as needed, i also will not be evaluating any headcanons purely based on chinese cultural norms, due to my unfamiliarity with them. if you are more familiar with any of these sources and have more information to add to a post, please let me know!

another thing to keep in mind: the official translation of the novels is not considered fully accurate to the original chinese. i am not immune to making mistakes, either. please take my posts with a grain of salt.

BECAUSE this is a casual project from someone whose only credentials are being completely obsessed with mo dao zu shi and knowing how to write an essay, anyone is welcome to make a blog that does this but. better. let me know if you start one and i'll point people your way lol.

finally: i will NOT be entertaining any character bashing in or on my blog. again, this is not a personal opinion-based blog, i'm looking at textual support, so honestly i don't think this disclaimer is necessary. but. just in case.

💥💥the rating system:💥💥

CANON: what it says on the tin! this fact is supported by the text. if you're trying to be as canon-compliant as possible, this rating is for you.

RUMOR: this fact is an in-text rumor. although this idea is mentioned in the novel, it's still not explicitly confirmed as canon. the characters themselves don't know if it's true or not!

FANON – SUPPORTED: not directly stated in canon, but it's a very likely interpretation, taking into account factors like cultural norms and occam's razor! this rating might be retroactively added to a post previously rated FANON – NEUTRAL, based on crowdsourced information about the raws or chinese culture.

FANON – NEUTRAL: it's not canon, but it's not NOT canon. the text neither confirms nor denies this interpretation, so it's up to you whether you want to consider it true to canon or not. the world is your oyster.

FANON – UNSUPPORTED: not directly stated in canon, but it's a very unlikely interpretation, taking into account factors like cultural norms and occam's razor. this rating might be retroactively added to a post previously rated FANON – NEUTRAL, based on crowdsourced information about the raws or chinese culture.

FANON – CONFLICTING: this idea directly contradicts something stated in the text. if you want to stay as canon-compliant as possible, this rating is not for you.

[tavina-writes]

Do you have any particular headcanon or meta about mdzs's world? Mdzs's world is a little different from other xianxia's worlds imo

Hi Nonny!

The worldbuilding I like to do is intrinsically character related, so it changes a lot between different fics that I write, so I wouldn't say that I have any hard headcanons about the world of MDZS.

And if I may, because this is a thing that bothers me intensely, I'd like to clarify that neither modao zushi the book nor cql the show are....xianxias. They're very much genre bucking, but they are spiritually much closer to being wuxia than xianxia (which is more like tgcf from what I can understand of the plot of tgcf).

I would however, like to observe that the world of MDZS is much much more polite and not prone to killing actual literal people than the typical wuxia. Yes, despite the war. And also despite the many many crimes nearly everyone commits in this universe, MDZS cultivators are, by training, ghost busters rather than wandering hitmen or cops. This is also what causes so many problems when they try to figure out what to do about crime and punishment. They're not suited for crime and punishment OR for judging the morality of any particular action committed by humans.

I have a longer essay about this somewhere comparing MDZS and the structure of its society to other common wuxia (Jin Yong's Legend of the Condor Heroes and Gu Long's Sentimental Swordsman Ruthless Sword) but that's a much more serious meta essay for another day!

Thanks for the ask!

[bluberryblurays]

TGCF Shi Qingxuan Character Essay

A short character essay connecting Qingxuan's character to the symbolism of the Plum Blossom!

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Welcome to my blog!

I'm Skye (she/her), and I primarily write metas/analyses about MDZS, though other things do get reblogged occasionally. I love analysing characters and waxing about the structure of MDZS, though there may be periods of inactivity. Regardless, I hope you enjoy the time spent on this blog, and that it may lead you down the rabbit hole of other people's metas as well – I've linked some of my favourite analyses down below, as well as a few of my own that I'm proud of.

Info

I'm about to start a reread of MDZS, and will post about thoughts I have/details I notice under the tag #skye rereads mdzs. For the posts that get longer and more analytical, I'll tag them under relevant #meta tags as well. I will be using online screenshots, but I do own all the books, if that's a concern!

Important tags (be warned tumblr does mix them up a bit when you search...):

#my meta for my analyses

#important for important real-world things, like donation links etc (because though this is a fandom blog, it's also the biggest platform I have, and the more people these posts can reach, the better – people can decide what to do with them after they've been seen)

#[mdzs/svsss/tgcf] meta for any analyses, mine or someone else's

#translation for analyses focusing on comparing translations

#[mdzs/svsss/tgcf] fanart for fanart i've reblogged

#fav tag for others' analyses or fanworks I particularly enjoy

#not mxtx is self explanatory

#asks is self-explanatory, too!

Metas

Metas I'm proud of:

My 'WWX is not a self-sacrificial idiot' series: 1, 2 (my favourite one), 3. Also compiled into one essay on AO3, with clearer definitions and an added introduction!

NHS and the morality of revenge

Trope subversions in MDZS and SVSSS

How might NHS have found out about NMJ's death?

Yi City + 3zun parallels

JYL is a well-written character, actually (second is unfinished)

How the way the world views LWJ reflects his character arc

On LWJ remaining in the Lan sect after WWX's death

The Morally Grey Debate^TM from a different angle

On the nice, broad road metaphor and how LWJ ties into it

Any meta around or over 3k words which I'm sufficiently proud of will also be crossposted onto my AO3 account!

My favourite metas to read:

LWJ and JC being foils/the theme of "love is an action word" by @/rynne (there are two parts, they're not dealing with two different subjects)

The theme of resentment in MDZS also by @/rynne

WWX, making miracles, and what defines him by @/righteousinadversity

The development of WWX's attitude towards LWJ in his first life by @/wutheringskies

NHS, WWX and masks by @/morethanwonderful

There are many more, and this list will definitely expand as I track down them and their links. But I love all the metas I've reblogged, so feel free to scroll through the #[fandom] meta tag to see more recommendations!

With all that said, have a great day!

[dearmyloveleys]

@trade-of-fairies interesting that you also brought Hua Cheng and someone absorbing so much negative energy that they become demonic… to me, it sounds kinda like Wen Ning. I mean, at the same time, i also can sense that it probably is not the same…? Would you mind thinking aloud at me on this one, please?

—

Hello! Long essay ahead. I think it all boils down to the differing character type semantics of TGCF and MDZS as fiction in different genres.

So where does the difference between HC’s transformation into a Ghost/Demon and WN’s transformation into the Ghost General lie?

We need to understand that while there are similarities because both are written from baselines of Chinese fantasy stories, we cannot apply fantasy concepts for TGCF and MDZS interchangeably. Their types of xianxia differs: TGCF is a high level xianxia (Gods, ascension, wars, magic, Demon kings). Think in terms of Western media, sort of like like the Illiad and other Greek Mythology. In C-novel and C-drama realm, think Til The End of the Moon and Three Miles of Peach Blossoms.

MDZS is low level xianxia, with a bit of wuxia mixed into it (differing martial sects, with differing cultivation manuals and gongfu training). There is a larger focus on styles of mortal Dao cultivation and intersect politics. Think Mortal Instruments or even Avatar The Last Airbender (not so good examples because this genre is very unique to Chinese fiction). In C-novel and C-drama realm, think Mysterious Lotus Casebook and Blood of Youth.

Where these two books share similarities is that the in-world characters often separate “good” and “evil” as themes for characters. Anything involving “demons” or “demonic” are viewed as bad. HC = Demon King, bad. WN = Ghost General, bad. As mentioned previously, this is probably where everyone goes wrong and pins modao on WWX, because they are more familiar with mo compared to guidao, which he newly pioneers.

HC is so decisively a Demon/Ghost is because of the nature of his path of becoming one. In TGCF, it’s clearly stated that in order to become a Ghost King, one has to be the surviving ghost in the battle of Tonglu Mountain. This battle was written precisely for Ghosts/Demons only, which is also why it can be more directly inferred that HC is a Demon/Ghost. Also, as TGCF is more of a fantasy story rather than a cultivation sect based story like MDZS, the characters do not have their transformation, whether into Gods or Demons, from explicitly stated “sword path” or “demonic path”. It is never explicitly mentioned that HC is a Demon/Ghost because he “cultivated a demonic cultivation path/manual”, as what characters from MDZS are likely to say. We only know for sure that he is a Demon/Ghost because 1) everyone says he is the last Ghost King 2) He was victorious in the battle of Tonglu Mountain. Most importantly, he holds his own consciousness. This is usually the case for most Demons in a lot of higher level xianxia stories.

Comparatively, Wen Ning was almost always under WWX’s control as a fierce corpse, to reduce or increase his brutality in battle with Chenqing. He is unique because WWX precisely manages to save his consciousness and part of his original personality, compared to other fierce corpses.

Okay, to add on even more confusion (for me as well when I was reading the book), what we know about WN’s change into a fierce corpse is that according to WWX (feel free to correct me here):

1) WN wasn’t completely dead even though he was literally skewered by the Jins

2) The Zhaoyin Flag that they used to stab through him not only severely injured him, but also lured resentment and negative energy into him. WN was already susceptible to such negative forces, and now being so injured, his soul/spiritual consciousness/ghost was waaaaay more gone and likely to turn into a fierce corpse like other dead prisoners/soldiers.

Despite WN being unique and retaining his consciousness as a fierce corpse, he is at the end of the day, a product of WWX’s pioneered guidao as a cultivation manual/style. I doubt there’s a similar concept of guidao used in other novels/dramas to control fierce corpses, which makes WN all the more unique to guidao and MDZS.

When you’re looking at how both HC and WN transformed into “demonic” figures, yes they’re similar. It’s a commonly used character development device in all kinds of fiction; the good character turning dark. But at the end of the day, they’re different because of the nature of how they transformed, the book stating how they transformed, and the two different genres of Chinese fiction that they belong to. Guidao is unique to MDZS and Demons/Ghosts are unique to TGCF. If WN was written in the same genre of TGCF, perhaps we could term him under a product of modao. Semantics, semantics. Hope this helps! 🫡❤️

[joys-of-everyday]

MXTX's women

Let's do ✨discourse™✨

Addendum: I checked out twitter (x now?) for the first time in ages and... um... maybe this isn't a good time for discourse. But hey, I love mxtx so I'm just going to do a Shen Yuan and pretend absolutely everything is fine.

I feel like a lot of the discourse around MXTX and sexism don't hit the mark? Things like 'there are few female characters', 'the female characters die', 'the female characters don't hold positions of power' are not indications as to whether a piece of work standing on its own is sexist. For example, you could write an entire novel about a sexless robot (which miserably fails the Bechdel test because there is only one character) and that says nothing about whether the work itself is sexist. This is an caricature of an example and of course, overall trends give a very different picture to individual works, so its not to take such works off the hook either. Similarly, including sexist troupes isn't inherently sexist, but equally arguing something is a 'critique' isn't a shield against criticism. Critique can be done badly, critique can become outdated, critique itself can be critiqued.

But equally the counterargument to this can't entirely be 'but look at x, y, and z - aren't they great female characters?'. Look, I love mxtx's women. I can write essays (plural) about mxtx's women. Many people already have. Then again, Eowyn from lotr is arguably a pretty deep character, but I would have problems if lotr was the best example of female representation we could come up with. The point being, the existence (or lack thereof) of strong female characters isn't (entirely) the point, even though it's often made out to be. Don't get me wrong, good female representation without strong female characters is... erm... hard. But if it was the crux of the argument, the discourse could be killed in three tumblr posts.

The bigger question(s) (possibly) is: What is its intent? How is that intent received?

SVSSS, MDZS, and TGCF are all extremely different pieces of work. SVSSS in particular stands out, because at its heart, it is satire. While debates around what kind of comedy is and isn't good exist independently of SVSSS, needless to say, judging satire in the same way you would say a murder mystery or a romantic fantasy is not advisable. Sha Hualing is a sexy demon lady whose clothes rip off in the middle of a battle. Why? Because that's saying something about a particular trope of a particular genre.

(Side note: I have opinions on how we shove different BLs together when they really shouldn't be under the same umbrella and how this muddies the discourse unnecessarily. I'm talking about Killing Stalking btw)

For SVSSS, if you get it, you get it (it's impossible to read without understanding this). While some loose threads exist about how female characters could have been more developed... man, do you know how much development my boy Mu Qingfang got? You're not sexist if you punch everyone (only half ironic here). (In terms of character development I also think this might be a fandom thing as well as a SVSSS thing.) But I think more relevantly, SVSSS tells you something about the way MXTX writes critique.

If you didn't notice, SVSSS is critique on two levels. First is the blatant critique of the harem genre, and the second is more subtle critique on BL, on fandoms, on webnovels, on literature. But while we get Shen Qingqiu's commentary guiding us through the first bit, this drops during the second bit. It takes Shen Qingqiu so long to realise that what he's living through is a crazy mishmash of BL tropes that the only narration you get on this is Pure Confusion. To realise Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu's early interactions is commentary on the 'dark and obsessive love' trope, you need to immediately realise that Shen Qingqiu telling you Luo Binghe is trying to kill him is just... Wrong. So (possibly, ofc I've no idea what's going on in the author's head) the intent is critique. But intent is meaningless without it being conveyed to the reader. So how are we meant to 'realise' what is going on?

Firstly, MXTX tells you. Shen Qingqiu goes: 'damn Luo Binghe isn't acting like in those weird danmei novels' and you're meant to go 'oh weird danmei novels I know about those'. Second is her very obvious use of tropes (even flagged!). 'Clothes rip/disappear in the middle of a serious situation, isn't this weird? Where have we seen that before?'. And thirdly, by introducing a sense of absurdity. Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu's relationship is presented in such an unconventional way (the master-disciple pair which generated a famous porno!) that it forces you to engage with it critically.

Okay, so what does that have to do with sexism? Take MDZS. We have a set of very tropey characters - 'the older sister', 'the scary mother', 'the strong independent woman', 'the damsel in distress'. We have explorations and subversions that go beyond tropes: Jiang Yanli's character shaped by her experiences in an abuse household, Yu Ziyuan's pride and loyalty, Wen Qing's well... everything, and Mianmian needs no explanation. We have flags to tell us we are meant to care about these issues: most obviously Mianmian experiencing gendered harassment for speaking up. All the women die! Yeah, isn't that a problem. Because it's the women sacrificing themselves, women silently taking on burdens, women chained by the circumstances of the world around them and still making choices about what is important to them (and it's often not themselves). The women aren't in positions of power/aren't shown to be as competent as the men! They're literally put down when they speak up, and don't the wives have a great time with their husbands. MDZS is critique of society. MDZS's women too are a critique of the society they (we) live in.

But not all critique is good critique! The first way that critique can fail is if it just isn't registered as critique by the reader. And this isn't always on the reader. If the author isn't clear enough on this, then they have failed to execute the intent of their work. And to this extent, I've heard enough people say that MDZS is maybe sexist as a first reaction (myself included) to think that yeah, maybe this wasn't well done. The flags are scarce. The subversions of tropes are subtle enough to be missed in it's entirety. Then again, MDZS often ends up as people's gateway piece into danmei, when it is probably better understood with more context - for me, coming back to MDZS after a big BL reading spree was exceptionally enlightening. As to whether it could have been better done in the bounds of the genre, without detracting from the banging story it was... I honestly don't know.

One way to go about it is, well... TGCF. Here everything is laid out to you to an almost bizarre degree. 'Look, isn't this a Hard Question' the narrative stops to tell you at multiple points, from Bai Wuxiang and Xie Lian's back and forths, to 'I don't know if what I did was right' speeches on a regular basis (maybe not regular but it was enough to notice). The troupes are still there but their twists are far more obvious. Xuan Ji is the 'deranged woman' who is (we are told multiple times) surprisingly normal and competent when she isn't around Pei Ming. Yushi Huang and Banyue are just obviously strong, competent, and in positions of power. Shi Qingxuan shines in all of her wonder, kindness, and unfortune. The flags are more glaring as well: Just Pei Ming's Existence, Ling Wen's whole backstory, Jian Lan's tragedy... And it probably worked? Since people seem to complain significantly less about any supposed sexism of TGCF.

Do I like it? I like elements of it. Ling Wen is honestly great.

But I love the subtlety with which MDZS weaves its themes and tbh I think some of the magic was lost there. (I love TGCF to bits for different reasons but yeah)

Does MXTX's writing of women merit discussion? Of course, everything merits discussion. Particularly MXTX's works which rely so heavily on genre tropes to craft themes. Is MXTX's work sexist? Idk, I would say no, but these things are Hard Questions.

But my feeling? My true feeling? At the very least, it is So. Much. Better. than a huge amount of work that tries to be feminist and pitifully fails.

My current pet peeve is the 'strong independent woman'. Depicting a sexist society then including a 'strong independent women' with no true appreciation of the realistic struggles she would face, as if the only barriers that we face within these societies is to stop being a loser... is worse in my books than not including any women at all. Or 'strong independent women' who turn out to be utterly pathetic and in constant need of saving. Or 'strong independent women' who have no other personality than being the 'strong independent woman'. The intent here is to come across as feminist and progressive without critically engaging in anything. It's paper thin.

Ultimately, the core theme of MDZS and TGCF isn't about women's experiences (whereas SVSSS is, I would argue, right into the nooks and crannies). Do these works explore such themes to the extent it explore privilege, conflict, and oppression? Not really. But you can't do everything - the role of an author is inherently about choosing what to prioritise. And given what it does do, I think it does some pretty neat things.

[baeshijima]

OMG HI sorry for randomly appearing in your inbox but i had no idea you like tgcf?!?? omg. i perfectly understand the whiplash between hualian being.... hualian and the absolute tragedy beefleaf is going through 😭😭 still experiencing five stages of grief after the revenge scene and here we have hualian. living their best life HAJSHD

im very much unwell about beefleaf in general..... both about the ship but also about the characters + shi wudu and their entire story... like its so tragic?????? and also an amazing topic for many character analysis and essays but shh... id be very happy to see this all play out without the gut-wrenching angst but alas 💔💔 the angst is what we get........

KHSD UR FINE DW AND YES I LOVE TGCF 😭 its been so long since i read the novel so some things a re blurry but ourghghg... i should reread it... and i need to catch up on the donghua bc i havent watched s2 onwards ;w;;

no bc its literally just. hualian doing their thing and having their moment so the hualian lover in me cheered so hard and cried tears of joy only to find the beefleaf audio drama right after and wallow in despair and anguish 🧍‍♀️one couple is getting it on and the other is going through absolute hell i cannot why would they do this to us 🧍‍♀️

AND NO BC SAME 😭 like on one hand i understand hx and his revenge and the fact his existence as a ghost built on vengeance and such cant go against his cause, but on the other the absolute pain and anguish sqx went through in the blackwater arc and apologising and screaming and crying and begging hx and ourhgkh GIVE ME ALL HIS PAIN AND SUFFERING INSTEAD MXTX WHEN I CATCH UUUU

hx: what did you call me?

sqx: ming-xiong...

hx: you called for the wrong person.

THROWS UP I HATE THEM AND SWD TELLING SQX HE IS LEAVING FIRST AND HE WILL MEET HIM LATER WITH SQX CONSTANTLY APOLOGISING IM SOOO

LIKE

AND ON TOP OF THE ANIMATED VERSION OF THE ART??? LOSING MY MIND I HATE IT HERE

on another note, i just saw someone on twt put the beefleaf audio over the "I JUST WANNA BE PART OF YOUR SYMPHONY 🐬🐬🐬🌈🌈🌈 🎶 🎶" meme with the dolphins and sparkles and i think that killed me :D