#ling wen is the most character ever

[jonathankai]

Post-canon Heavenly Emperor Pei Ming relies heavily on Ling Wen’s assistance due to his inexperience, which leads to Ling Wen’s workload being worse than it’s ever been. At some point Pei Ming looks at her and thinks: “I’ve seen ‘noble Jie’ in all sorts of sorry states, but this is new low. I’m not some kind of beast, I will try to go easier on her”. So he tries to do more things on his own, but once again due to his inexperience, he ends up with even more mistakes and messed up situations and Ling Wen’s tasks multiply and multiply.

Eventually Pei Ming stands in front of a pile of scrolls which completely obscures Ling Wen’s desk behind it. Pei Ming says: “I’m genuinely sorry. Can I?..” and reaches for a random scroll to handle whatever task is written on it.

A pale clawed hand writhes out from between the scrolls, grabs Pei Ming’s hand and a voice seeping equally with fury and horror hisses: “Do not. Touch. Anything. Here”.

Ling Wen is the only person who visits Jun Wu in his prison. She cries on his shoulder for hours and keeps begging him to break out, usurp the power and become the Heavenly Emperor again. Out of sheer desperation, she has prepared fifty different scenarios to help him do it. Unfortunately, Jun Wu feels very pacified after being defeated and plans to spend the next 2000 years contemplating life choices and playing cards maybe. He does appreciate Ling Wen’s company a lot though, so he gladly offers her his attention and condolences.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Thank you all for an incredible 500 days of love and support. I offer you: answers to questions that no one has asked.

(As always, more can be found in the tags <3)

[lady-tortilla-chip]

Pick Your Faves of my Faves!

Challenge: Make a poll with five of your all time favorite characters and tag 5 people to do the same!

Thanks @thinkingisadangerouspastime for the tag!! Also this is by no means a full list of ALL my faves lmao I have too many! But these are characters who are recent favorites or have been the most consistently my favorites.

Tags: @all-inmoderation, @gravityrulez, @northern-polaris, @mossytrashcan, and @kitsquared!! No pressure at all I just enjoyed this lol

[angstandhappiness]

VERY NICE

Behold- A JTTW Untamed AU that nobody asked for and has no ground to stand on other than the fact that I’m gay and wanted to make this

[nevertheless-moving]

Considering the amount of emotional and moral nuance he managed to muster up immediately post Guanyin temple (despite having a terrible week and zero good role models) AND considering his front row seat to the dissection of Jiang Wanyin and Wei Wuxian’s downfall, I think that in a time travel fix-it, Jin Ling would actually be pretty successful at brute forcing yunmeng family therapy.

I mean he'd probably cry, but even that would be good! Because 1) modeling negative male emotions beside anger, and 2) Oh shit that’s shije’s kid we made Shije’s son cry, fuck, fuck! Bam! Instant high ground! Also he has the most authority of any second gen character by virtue of the fact that he could pull “DO YOU WANT MY MOM TO DIE??? BECAUSE YOU TWO ACTING LIKE MORONS IS WHAT GOT MY MOM KILLED! NOW SIT DOWN AND SPIT OUT ALL YOUR FUCKING SECRETS OR MY MOM WILL DIE AND I’LL BREAK YOUR LEGS!!” It would work! Tell me it wouldn't work!

Not to mention once he gets a few sect leader years under his belt, he might be the best person to manage a fix-it, in general. He's got perspective. He's got political training. Others might get too caught up on the specifics of the Wen remnants or the Ying Tiger Tally or Vengeance against One Person or Another — Jin Ling is critiquing the basic structure of how Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng are living their lives and he's getting away with it.

He would even be good at dealing with Jin Guangyao, the slipperiest motherfucker in the timeline. Jin Ling's got as good a handle as anyone on his motivations, and he has sincere (if messy) affection for him, which would hit Guangyao right in his weak spot. Depending on your headcanons it may or may not be in vain, but he's got a real chance of getting the man to set some more modest and less destructive life goals.

Similarly, I think he'd do a pretty decent job at a harsh-but-fair critique of Xichen's neutrality and Mingue's rigidity and Huissang's delibrate uselessness, though getting them to listen would be more of a crapshoot.

All of this makes it especially funny how badly he would handle Wangxian.

For context: Wei Ying and Hunguang-jun are not just the gayest people Jin Ling has ever met, they are the gayest people he's ever HEARD of.

He wouldn't want to bring it up. He wouldn't mean to. He doesn't want to talk about it. But when he inevitably calls Wei Ying a slur only to be met with genuine bafflement? Jin Ling would completely lose his shit.

Because I don't think Wei Ying is going to get offended, or defensive, or have a response that his nephew could coherently mock. Wei Wuxian thinks 'hey these time traveling guys are actually pretty funny!' Him and Whom? Not even a serious topic of contention. You got me for a second, haha.

Jin Ling would break. Wei Ying eventually says something the effect of "I'm straight? Obviously?" and Jin Ling would nod once, start screaming, then climb across the table to strangle him.

It's — look. How do you fucking explain that all of the worst moments of your life were, in someway or another, characterized by Wei Wuxian and Lan Wanjii being FLAMBOYANTLY into one another.

The man who saved his life also killed his father and Jin Ling stabs him but it feels awful and — ok Lan Wanjii is cradling Wei Wuxian tenderly. Ok they're just going to go. They're leaving like that. Hunguang Jun was — is — was the Yiling Patriarch's widow, so that's another layer to add onto everything else. Hunguang-Jun is visibly expressing emotions with his face and voice and Jin Ling is going to go throw up now

Jin Ling's kidnapped at the burial mounds and everyone’s lost their spiritual energy and all his friends and family are going to die and — those two are smiling at eachother. They're telling inside jokes. They're holding hands.

Jin disciples (his own clans disciples) just shot at him and and Xiao-shushu really is what people sa— WEI YING SHOUTS ABOUT WANTING TO FUCK LAN WANJII

THEY ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF BEING KIDNAPPED AND HE DOES THIS

Jujiu is bleeding from the stomach and crying he's bleeding and crying his jujiu is doing that and Xiao-shushu caused it and his whole life is a lie and Hunguang Jun and the Yiling Patriarch are visibly groping in a corner.

And then they never stop groping again. Forever.

So yeah, I'm quite confident that if Jin Ling had to be even peripherally involved with coaching Wei Wuxian through a bisexual awakening and homoerotic courtship, he would explode. He would black out with rage. He'd make an honest and embarrassingly unsuccessful attempt at killing Lan Zhan. He would walk into a lotus pond and stay there until he drowned. He'd start heavy drinking. He'd punch a random passerby in the dick.

In conclusion, Need More Jin Ling Time Travel Fics

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Sep 10th

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1. For the next fic finder: I've been trying to find a Modern AU WangXian fic where WWX gets kicked out of the Jiang household (i think because he got pregnant? unsure about that though), he runs off with LWJ, and does not see them for several years. A majority of the fic focuses on Jiang Cheng stalking WWX after they accidentally reunite because Lan Sizhui & Jin Ling start dating? A few pivotal scenes I can remember include jc taking Jin Ling and friends to a concert (which upsets LSZ's parents because he's been stalking wwx) and JC cornering WWX in a car and trying to kiss him. For the life of me, I can't find it anywhere.

FOUND! I think this is the deleted "Meant to be (but not the way I wanted)" by sekhmetpaws. It is partially available on the wayback machine

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2. Hihi! By any chance do you know of a Wangxian fic where I think its the juniors who travel through a portal to the past (I distinctly remember the portal part), and they improve and change everything except future Guanyao finds about the portal and tries to use it, eventually past guanyao finds out the future Xichen is mourning and missing him so he travels through the portal to be with him? Thank you in advance ❤️❤️❤️❤️ @memeismemeismeme

FOUND? And They Lived Happily Ever After… by Morgana_avalon (G, 51k, wangxian, JL/LSZ, Burial Mounds Settlement times, hurt/comfort, fix-it)

FOUND? Time Charm by Jenrose  (E, 141k, wangxian, later queerplatonic LWJ/WWX/WQ, LXC/JGY/2nd Madam Mo, time travel fix-it, post-canon, everyone lives au, genius inventor WWX, BAMF wangxian, first time, pregnancy, childbirth, asexual character, aftermath of time travel, telepathic bond, slice of life)

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3. hi! this is for fic finder. i’m looking for 2 different fics with a similar premise. A) in one, there’s something wrong with wwx’s core and wen qing has to build a framework for a new one, and everyone (lan wangji, lan xichen, jiang fengmian, madam yu, jiang yanli, jiang cheng, etc.) take turns giving him spiritual energy for the new core while wwx lies unconscious on i think an operating room table. i think it’s a modern au.

B) in the second one i’m looking for, i think wwx has reincarnated and is reunited with lwj at the end, but there’s something wrong with his core. jiang cheng, who cultivated to immortality using wwx’s core, gives his core back to him because he was tired of being alive (or something like that, i’m not too sure). i don’t think there’s reconciliation between the two of them. thank you so much! @ieatkitcat

3A)

FOUND! please forgive my most passionate disruptions by pumpkinpaix (E, 65k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Modern: Still Have Powers, stripper!WWX, Graduate School, Internalized Homophobia)

3B)

FOUND!🔒Confusion by Vrishchika (Not rated, 4k, wangxian, time travel)

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4. Hi! I am searching for two wangxian fics if you could help me out! Thanks!

A. Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji along with juniors are kind of on a road trip...I don't remember if it was a case fic or not, but I think they encounter Madam Yu's ghost and she scolds Wei Wuxian until she finds out he gave his core to Jiang Cheng and then gives Wei Wuxian a new core. Completed fic.

B. Post Sunshot Campaign Wei Wuxian is prisoned in Qinghe Nie and Nie Huisang is trying to bring Wei Wuxian back to his cheerful self by braiding his hair and bringing him books but he is being threatened by Jin Guangyao to not talk. Jin Guangyao is also intercepting all letters. Jiang Yanli is alive. Incomplete last I read it.

Thanks again!!

4B)

FOUND? Always walked a very thin line by tucuxi (T, 22k, NHS & WWX, JYL & WWX, WangXian, Depression, Anxiety Attacks, Anxiety, Canon-Typical Behavior, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon Divergence, Everyone Lives, except JZn and JGS, Self-Worth Issues, Slow Burn, Oblivious WWX, Golden Core Reveal, WWX Has No Golden Core, Chronic Pain, Chronic Illness, Yin Iron, Baxia Saber, baxia as mental health barometer yikes, Pining, everyone is morally grey, life is not fair and that's kind of the whole point of mxtx books)

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5. hiii! help! wwx has ptsd and goes to adpot a rabbit. lwj works in the rabbit rescue and at first thinks wwx won't take care of the rabbits but changes his mind. i think he saw wwx in the cameras woth the rabbits

FOUND? 🔒 silk linked together by theLoyalRoyalGuard (G, 6k, LWJ & MXY, Wangxian, Modern, Autistic LWJ, Cellist LWJ, LWJ, Runs A Rabbit Rescue, MXY Deserves Happiness, Fluff)

FOUND? 🔒Recovery by Unforth (G, 27k, WangXian, Modern AU, Rabbit Breeder LWJ, Veteran LWJ, Veteran WWX, PTSD, therapy animals, Therapy Rabbits, LWJ is an Asshole Sometimes, Doctor WQ, Fluff and Angst, Happy Ending, Former Prisoner of War WWX, LXC is a Good Brother, Gray Asexual LWJ, Anxiety Disorder)

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6. I read a completed Jiang Cheng time travel fix it that I think was multiple chapters. I don't remember much except at the end him and Wen Qing end up together and have a kid.

FOUND? Lynchpin by ShanaStoryteller (Not Rated, 103k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Time Travel, Fix-It)

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7. Hi, I'm trying to find a fic where WWX and LWJ were in a relationship but then WWX had to leave after someone threatened him and killed the Wens in a fire. And then years later LWJ is on a night hunt with the juniors and encounters Mo Xuanyu who is actually WWX in disguise. LWJ recognizes WWX because he is playing Wangxian and then after they all go back to their hotel that was selected by NHS. Back at the hotel WWX and LWJ talk and then bang it out. And the next day LWJ and the juniors and WWX in a new disguise go back to Cloud Recesses.

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8. Hi! I’m trying to find a fic I *thought* I had bookmarked but can’t find.

It’s a modern au where American Lan Zhan takes a holiday to someplace in Canada and meets bartender Wei Ying. There’s some reason why WY can’t/won’t return to the US, he’s illegally living in Canada.

They have a little romance, LZ goes back to the US, and later WY agrees to join him I think.

That’s pretty much all I remember. Ring any bells?? TYSM!

FOUND?🔒Stay with Me (Go Places) by LizzyPanic (T, 22k, WangXian, meet ugly, Anxious LWJ, brief discussion of panic attacks, marriage kink, Making Out, Frottage, Hand Jobs, Snowballing, Anal Fingering, Rimming, Body Worship, Coming In Pants, Mild Angst, Fluff, Domestic Fluff, Vacation, somehow also a coffee shop au, wangxian go hiking, Tattooed WWX, Outdoor Sex, Phone Sex, Sexual Tension, Whirlwind Romance)

FOUND? Many happy returns. by orange_crushed (E, 25k, WangXian, Modern AU, Mistaken Identity, Misunderstandings, Grief/Mourning, Loss of Parent(s), Implied/Referenced Suicide, Past Suicide of a Parent, References to Depression, Anxiety, Therapy, References to Anti-Depressant Medications, Escort Service, Loneliness, Everybody’s Abandonment Issues, Angst and Fluff and Smut, Angst with a Happy Ending, Domestic Fluff, Moving In Together, Oral Sex, Penetrative Sex, Hopeful Ending, Recovery, References to Escorting/Sex Work but No Actual Escorting/Sex Work)

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9. There is a fic , post canon wwx is mad lwj let him go. It starts with him waking up with mianmian in an inn. Well that's about it . I was so much into wangxian pairing. I dint read that fic then. Can someone find it @poongulali

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10. Hii, I was wondering if you could help me with finding an ao3 fic: I think it takes place during the siege of burial mounds and wangji takes a sword meant for wuxian and he screams and the battle stops and the ground shakes and we read everything happening from xichen’s point of view and wangxian teleport and wuxian gives wangji his heart and they get revenge on the sects during a discussion conference

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11. Hello to fic finder

So I'm looking for a fic where the entirety of gusu lan sect got sent back in time and now it's really overprotective of WWX I remember a scene where wwx lwj nws nmg and lxc are at the rabbit patch and wwx is introducing every rabbit because the rabbits resemble someone they know and he's holding a giant rabbit that resembles nmg @constancebloodstone

FOUND? Cluster of Clouds by Nika_Raven_Celeste (T, 21k, WangXian, LWJ & WWX, LQR & WWX, JC & WWX, WIP, Time Travel, The Lans from Post Canon Time Traveled to Cloud Recesses Study Era, ALL The Lans from Post Canon, The Lans ADORES WWX, Confused WWX, Soft LQR, Soft LWJ , LWJ CAN communicate, Not JC Friendly , not YZY Friendly, Genius WWX, Horny LWJ, but he still has some restraints, Oblivious WWX)

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12. There was this fic where wei ying and lan zhan got pulled into a statue to a cursed room where they were forced to have sex? I think it was a pregxian fic but I can't remember for sure

I do know it was bottom wei ying though and that it's set at a museum in modern cultivation au

FOUND!🔒End Racism on the OTW - The Jade Chamber by raitala (E, 18k, wangxian, modern w/ magic, case fic, pining, angst w/ happy ending, hurt/comfort, getting together, trapped together, there’s only one bed, light bondage, masturbation, oral sex, emotional baggage, ghosts)

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13. Hello! Thank you for helping with our requests. I'm looking for an AU where the Wen Remnants survive. Lan Zhan finds a hidden village that turns out to be where his mother came from. He brings Wei Ying and the remaining Wen there to keep them safe. I think they use bracelets to get in and out. @saharrashadow

FOUND! Arbitrary by devinokaze (T, 137k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Post-Sunshot Campaign, Burial Mounds Ensemble as Family, but live somewhere else, hidden society, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, POV Multiple)

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14. Hii this for a fic finder

There was a fic where wwx was imprisoned in the unclean realm, but he was isolated cause jgy threatened him so he didn't receive any letters/ information from the outside, i remember that huaisang kept visiting him tho.

FOUND? Always walked a very thin line by tucuxi (T, 22k, NHS & WWX, JYL & WWX, WangXian, Depression, Anxiety Attacks, Anxiety, Canon-Typical Behavior, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon Divergence, Everyone Lives, except JZn and JGS, Self-Worth Issues, Slow Burn, Oblivious WWX, Golden Core Reveal, WWX Has No Golden Core, Chronic Pain, Chronic Illness, Yin Iron, Baxia Saber, baxia as mental health barometer yikes, Pining, everyone is morally grey, life is not fair and that's kind of the whole point of mxtx books)

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15. Hi! This is for fic finder. Its modern au where wwx and lxc is a writer and they fake dating because wwx fans is too wild (stalk him, broke to his apartement, etc) and his manager told him to do that. The endgame is wangxian. I think wwx write porn? Lwj and lxc life together and wwx move in because his fans knows where he lives. Wwx and lxc kissed but no more i think. I think nmj is their publisher? Thats all i can remember. Thanks! @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

FOUND! Badreads by arabii (M, 37k, WangXian, 3Zun, Modern AU, Writing & Publishing, Fake/Pretend Relationship, Fluff and Humor, Bullying as a Flirting Technique, WWX in WWX's Body)

does lan zhan write scathing reviews of Wei yings writing and they get better as the fic goes on?

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16. Hi, please could you help me

I remember I read a wangxian fic where they have sex surrounded by dead bodies they just killed. But I don't have them anymore on my bookmark.

Please help me asap 😭🙇🏻‍♀️🙏🏼thank you

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17. Yall hi I'm going insane. There's this ff where WWX attempts against his own life and JC is the one to find him locked in the bathroom. He calls 911 and tells them his brother needs help. They get him to the hospital and JYL gets there and LWJ too and they keep an eye on him after so he takes his meds and all. Please someone help!

FOUND? 总有一天; a place to hide (can’t find one near) by yiqie (E, 76k, WangXian, Modern AU, Pianist, Getting Together, Mental Health Issues, Suicide Attempt, Suicidal Thoughts, Depression, Hospitals, Overdosing, Eventual Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Additional Warnings In Author’s Note)

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18. For the next FF, musical prodigy WWX! I remember a scene in particular where LWJ or LXC was playing something (clarity? Mending?) with LQR in the room who was surprised when WWX joined in halfway through. We find out that WWX has been playing by ear his whole life because YZY refused to let him learn. @mreisse

FOUND! Dispersing Clouds by dreamingofcake (E, 283k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Abusive YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Eventual Sex, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm (Background Character), Background Character Deaths, child deaths, Canon JC, Good Uncle LQR, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Cultivation Sect Politics, Homophobia, Heteronormativity, Feelings Realization, WWX is Not Oblivious) sounds like what happens near the end of chapter 7 / I think number 18 on September 10ths fic finders sounds like the very popular Dispersing Clouds. The Lans are like "Cool trick bro" don't share the music. Wei Wuxian is like "Chill my peeps. I got you"😀

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19. Hi! I’m looking for a fic I read a while ago about jingyi and sizhui and the beginning of their friendship. It was in jingyi’s pov and he started out not liking sizhui, because jingyi struggles with following the rules and focusing and is jealous of how perfect sizhui is, before they go on a mission together and jingyi learns about sizhui’s complicated family history and the issues he has to deal with and they bond over it. I don’t remember if it was complete or not

FOUND? Why Not Me? by Eleanor_Fenyx (G, 26k, LJY & LQR, LQR & LWJ, LJY & LSZ, LJY & LWJ, good uncle LQR, LJY pov, war orphan LJY, character study, LJY has ADHD, found family, rejection sensitivity dysphoria)

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20. Hii! This is for FicFinder, hope it finds you well.

I'm looking for a fic where wwx is some kind of special creature (kind of spirit, I think). I don't remember much, but I do recall lwj (I think😢) meeting a special fox spirit.

This is super unclear, but I really hope you can find something.

Anyway, if you have recommendations of fics where wwx is a creature of some kind, that'd be awesome 🤩🤩 @untamedlover

FOUND? cloudy autumn heaps the sky by anatheme (T, 23k, WangXian, Fantasy, Universe Alteration, Secret Identity, Dragon LWJ, Fox WWX, Strangers to Friends to Lovers, Timeline What Timeline, wwx is a little older here, wwx piling gifts on lwj and encouraging hoarding tendencies, Sharing a Bed, Literal Sleeping Together, Arranged Marriage)

FOUND? A Baby Dragon’s Guide To Seducing Your Huli Jing by sweetlolixo (M, 102k, wangxian, Fantasy, But still in the Cultivation World, Dragon LWJ, Fox WWX, Younger LWJ, Older WWX, Fluff, Humor, Eventual mpreg, Angst with a Happy Ending, Best Boy A-Yuan)

FOUND? 醉 | drunk; intoxication by sweetlolixo (E, 15k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Mythical Creature WWX, everyone falls in love with weiying at first sight…, Besotted LWJ, Romance, Pregnant WWX, Fluff)

FOUND? 🔒💖 Hoards and treasures by apathyinreverie (T, 21k, WangXian, Siblings, Family, not particularly Jiang friendly, YZY Bashing, slightly darker Gusu Lans, LXC being the best brother, Some manipulation, But with the best of intentions, and not between wangxian, Dragon LWJ, Fox WWX, Smitten LWJ, Fluff, perfect happiness, adorable WWX, Romance, Some worldbuilding, courting)

FOUND? To lurk, to lie in wait by trippednfell (M, 124k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Huli Jing, strangers to co-parents to lovers, Strangers to Lovers, Dragons, Kid Fic, teenage juniors, background NieLan, Angst with a Happy Ending, Case Fic, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Hurt/Comfort, Implied/Referenced Character Death, Not Really Character Death, Fox Spirit WWX, Dragon LWJ, Blood and Injury, Additional Warnings In Author’s Note)

FOUND? 🔒 Turnabout by apathyinreverie (T, 7k, WangXian, LSZ & WWX; LSZ & LWJ, WIP, Dragon LWJ, Fox WWX, Tiger cub A-Yuan, Mischievous WWX, Smitten LWJ, Possessive LWJ, Oblivious WWX, Domestic WangXian, LXC does his best, LQR wishes his nephews had better taste in men, Fluff, Romance, Mpreg mentioned, courting, creature shifts)

FOUND? 🔒💖 Tricks and treats by apathyinreverie (M, 12k, wangxian, dragon LWJ, phoenix LSZ, fox WWX, family, injury, fluff, romance, possessive LWJ, WIP)

FOUND? So You Accidentally Kidnapped A Qilin by Mikkeneko (T, 83k, WangXian, Juuni Kokki | Twelve Kingdoms Fusion, mdm yu’s a+ parenting, Identity Issues, Cultivator Politics, Yin Iron Poisoning, Twin Prides of Yúnmèng Feels, Yunmeng Bros Reconciliation, WWX Needs a Hug, Mutual Pining, Miscommunication, Getting Together, Temporary Character Death, Happy Ending, Pacifist WWX, MXTX Big Bang 2021)

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[oneeyedoctogod]

Gods this fandom sometimes, I swear. I'm sorry I read two deeply bad takes back to back, and I have to rant. I'm sure others have said it better than I, but really. Come on. I actually have to wonder if people who talk about the extras actually read them because...

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji didn't leave the cultivation world in canon. They elope, and then they come back. The fact they're not involved in the bigger politics is... pretty much to be expected, but they very much do participate in the day to day lives of the Lan sect. They go where the chaos is to night hunt, they teach, Lan Wangji comforts his brother in his seclusion, and Wei Wuxian meets some new Lan disciples.

As for the cottage fantasy... Again, I honestly have to wonder if the people talking about it actually read the extra it's in? Because it's just that. A fantasy. A dream. It's basically a representation of Wei Wuxian's wants for a domestic life, something he definitely has now! He's always been characterised as someone who wants to help others and who loves cultivation. Why would you think the dream is to be taken literally?

And the idea that Wei Wuxian has 'several important relationships just floating there', that he's not dealing with... Where? Which ones? He teaches the juniors and grows closer to Jin Ling. He doesn't exactly interact with Lan Xichen, but he asks after him. He meets Mianmian again and wishes her well. He asks after Wen Ning after Lan Sizhui comes back then has some father-son bonding moments with him!

Nie Huaisang and Wei Wucian aren't close. They were friendly once, but they didn't ever meet after the lectures. I don't see how that qualifies as an "important" relationship, especially with Nie Huaisang never openly admitting to his part in Wei Wuxian's resurrection. But even then, Wei wuxian says he'll be keeping a close eye on him, so one can imagine they meet again at some point.

As for Jiang Cheng... what more do you want Wei Wuxian to do exactly? Even if you want a reconciliation, why can't Jiang Cjeng be he one to actually grow up and do the work for once? He's the one who never apologized. He's the one who is still openly hostile in the extras. If Wei Wuxian wants to move on and not interact with him, he's well within his right to do that, given how Jiang Cheng treated him. Hell, he's more generous than most since he encourages Jin Ling to talk to Jiang Cheng. If I'd been treated by someone like Jiang Cheng treated Wei Wuxian and saw him hit our nephew several times, I certainly wouldn't encourage them to meet. (But that's Wei Wuxian for you, the moral ideal and better than all of us.)

Anyway, I really don't understand why people insist on making Wangxian have a sadder ending than the one they actually did. It's a HEA for them, sorry guys. And yeah, maybe Wei wuxian has some trauma to work on... but the whole point of the character is that he doesn't let his trauma define him. That he wants to forgives, forgets and moves on.

(Also, just because he doesn't have a breakdown or the cultivation equivalent of therapy in the extra doesn't mean he's not working on them? He finally is at peace, with a solid support network. Maybe he does talk about his past hurts with Lan Wangji - Lan Wangji certai ly knows when to comfort him when he needs it. But the narrative point of the extras is to show they're moving on from the past! And you know what, sometimes the beat thing to do to heal is to do just that. They're living their best lives, deal with it.)

And finally... shit did you really read the whole book and come to the conclusion Wei Wuxian should have 'learned to accept help'? Who the fuck offered help? Who did he refuse?

(Don't say Lan Wangji. 1) I love him, but "Come back to Gusu" is very much not an obvious offer to help, and when Wei Wuxian understandably misunderstands him, he never manages to correct it.

And 2) once Wei Wuxian tells him explicitly he's not leaving the Wen remnants behind, Lan Wangji understands and backs off. He approves! I'm sure he'd do more if he could, but just like Jiang Yanli, he can't!)

Jiang Cheng literally said, 'No one will help you, no one is on your side' (and then made sure that was true by saying Wei Wuxian was the enemy of the cultivation world). Jin Zixuan chose to ask the one who was ambushed to disarm rather than the 300 cultivators attacking him and lunged at him when Wei Wuxian refused to comply (because he'd be killed if he did!!). How is that help?

Who else tried to help? Whose help did Wei Wuxian reject?

Wei Wuxian was presented with a series of bad choices and took the best he could, the ones aligned with his principles, accepting he'd have to face consequences at some point but also knowing it was still worth it. He's not the one who failed or made a fatal mistake or betrayed his word.

Rant over. Sorry about that.

[hannigramislife]

Most unrealistic part of mdzs is the fact that Jiang Cheng didn't somehow find Wen Yuan in the raid of Burial Mounds, then take him to Lotus Pier.

It absolutely was because of the plot. Because wangxian is endgame. Which is not bad!! Obviously!! We love to see it!!

But when you think about it, it's kinda hilarious.

"Oh, Jiang Cheng wouldn't have taken A-Yuan in, he was still mad at Wei Wuxian, and grieving-"

My brother in Christ, Jiang Cheng held onto a fucking flute. Sister-killing flute, as some refer to it.

Jiang Cheng taking in Jin Ling was no brainer, but if you think he would have been able to let Wei Wuxian's son grow up wherever — Jiang "I never let anything or anyone go, in my life, ever" Cheng — then perhaps we have understood his character differently.

[wutheringskies]

Post-Canon Fics in MDZS...

You know, what would make post-canon fics great? If they adhered to canon! This post is honestly just a list of character tropes, and plot tropes I find incessantly OOC, replaced by plot tropes I wish we hyped up more.

1. Yunmeng Bros Reconciliation

There are plenty of reasons this will never happen. Firstly, Jiang Wanyin will not apologize to Wei Wuxian further beyond the apology that he has made in Guanyin Temple, because to apologize, you need to see "wrong" in your actions and regret them. Jiang Cheng doesn't have a similar morality index as Wei Wuxian and their beliefs have always been different. Not to mention Jiang Cheng is inherently bitter since he was young; following down the path of his mother. His first instinct when someone is being praised is so squash them down.

Secondly, Wei Wuxian will not apologize to Jiang Cheng beyond the apology of breaking that promise that only Jiang Cheng was left holding onto - a culmination of their broken dreams and desires, a marking of them being a generation of war.

The only thing both of them have in common is their love for Jin Ling and a shared, painful past - a past that Wei Wuxian wants to move on from, a past that Jiang Cheng is simultaneously rooted in, and moved away from.

Note: that this, I am speaking for is MDZS canon. Not CQL, as well, Jiang Cheng didn't directly kill those Wens which is the tipping point.

Replaced by: Loving Jin Ling

In the MDZS Novel, we go from seeing Jiang Cheng become increasingly abusive and violent towards Jin Ling as the stakes worsen and Jin Ling becoming annoyed and having arguments with him, not agreeing with his thinking.

We also see, Wei Wuxian, being the one to push Jin Ling to talk to Jiang Cheng in the Iron Hook Extra. We see Wei Wuxian being disgustingly affectionate towards Jin Ling, and Jin Ling being a tsundere about it and promising to himself that from the next time, he'll stick around Wei Wuxian in night hunts, implying these two will be consistently in each other's lives.

We also learn that Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji take Sizhui out on night-hunts (a family). And that Sizhui and Jin Ling go on night-hunts together. Also, that Wen Ning often joins their night-hunts.

So, hear me out, post-canon fics revolving around this strange, muddly, messy support system and family that Jin Ling has amassed.

Yunmeng bros reconciliation is never going to happen; too much interaction might worsen their tentative mutual ignorance of each other. Wei Wuxian, who's always pushed himself into other's personal spaces, is fine with just ensuring Jiang Cheng is okay. Distance is better than proximity.

But what plausibly might happen is Jin Ling forming deeper connections with his scattered, support system. Jin Ling might open up to Jiang Cheng for help with this or that, as Wei Wuxian has advised. Jiang Cheng might learn how to not be emotionally abusive or harsh and show the love he has for Jin Ling in better ways. Jin Ling will probably end up getting closer to Wei Wuxian and Sizhui and understanding just so many things about, everything. He might be supported by Hanguang-jun.

He might grow up to be the best Jin sect leader there ever was.

2. Wei Wuxian navigating through a world where everyone hates him, withering away.

This is, not only one of the saddest post-canon takes, but also very OOC. It might not make sense what I'm talking about so I'll list out common tropes I put under this categorization:

a) Wei Wuxian has terrible self esteem

b) He feels undeserving of Lan Wangji's love and keeps him at a distance emotionally by seducing him for sex instead

c) He has a childlike innocence, he goes out and hears everyone talking shit about him and stays indoor most of the time

d) He is mistreated by Lan clan and Lan Wangji is oblivious to it all

And such. I definitely understand why these tropes are so popular. It feeds into a particular sort of misery but there is a lot that it ignores:

a) Wei Wuxian firstly doesn't have terrible self esteem. If he did, he wouldn't have made it this far (coughs, the big age of 21 or 22). People ignore the fact that Wei Wuxian is a strong protagonist. He is proud, and aware of his worth. He never plays down his talents. He understands quickly the perspective of other people, and already knows that the people who talk more, do less.

In his first life, he went through being coreless and powerless, hated by all, but still standing up for stuff he believed in and lounging and drinking. He's not afraid to make others uncomfortable with his presence. That is a part of his charm. He cares for the opinions of only few people - and those few love him.

b) The one where he's emotionally distant towards Lan Wangji is the one I possibly hate the most. Especially because these sorts of fics often have him distracting Lan Wangji from his bouts of worthlessness and insecurity by his body, and Lan Wangji jumps straight into action.

Lan Wangji knows Wei Wuxian well enough that he offers comfort to Wei Ying even when he doesn't realize he needs it; like hugging him in Intrustion extra when they are on the topic of servants. Wei Wuxian can read Lan Wangji well, and so can Lan Wangji. Both of them have a relationship built on mutual trust and understanding. Wei Wuxian isn't sticking around with the Lan Clan and the jingshi because it's what Lan Wangji wants, but it's also what Wei Wuxian wants.

Also, Wei Wuxian doesn't feel undeserving of Lan Wangji. He knows he has caused Lan Wangji a lot of pain, intentionally or not, and is dedicated to making him happy, and being in love. It was all in his Guanyin Temple confession - their relationship is not out of gratefulness or anything like that.

c) Wei Wuxian is innocent at his soul, but he's not a child. He knows what the world thinks and he doesn't care. He doesn't expect the world to talk nicely about him; he probably doesn't even hear half the chatter, and even if be acknowledges it, it doesn't need to emotionally hurt him. Unrelatable? Yes. But that's how his character is like.

And if he ever is hurt or surprised, he's going to seek comfort. Act childish, ask to be pampered, etc.

d) THIS one is so... We see Wei Wuxian stepping into the Lan Clan. One day later, he's sitting next to Lan Wangji in a banquet, accepted as his cultivation partner. Lan Qiren is definitely against his presence. But like, sincerely, how long will that go on when we know that Wei Wuxian is the one who takes Lan juniors to night hunts everyday? We also see Wei Wuxian acting independently with juniors onto missions where assistance from the Lan Clan was requested (Iron Hook extra) without any Lan Wangji or anyone else. He even has a jade pendant, just four days after settling in. Lan Qiren has to hear his moans like... every night. A few hours in and he's talking to a Lan female cultivator?

Lan Wangji himself has injured thirty three Lan elders and been punished by the worst punishment, probably, ever assigned. Beyond Lan Qiren's glares and admonishments, I sincerely doubt anyone can do or say much. What I don't doubt is that Wei Wuxian is loveable and makes friends easily, and that despite everything, he's Lan Wangji's cultivation partner. A teacher. Accesses all Lan cottages and buildings. And now an addition to the Lan family.

And as for what the general people speak, perhaps the Yiling Laozu will always be a figure that haunts children bed time stories. But Senior Wei, and Hanguang-jun's husband, and Wei Wuxian - is shown to be a figure that is loved, respected by many.

The whole of cultivation world TRIED to kill him (Second Seige). They were embarrassed. Only like 20 people were actually there to kill him.

These 20 people will probably never be able to touch a hair on his head.

The WHOLE of cultivation world was saved by Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wens' remains. Stories always travel fast, don't they? The cultivation world has found their newest figure to hate - and it's not Wei Wuxian. Not just that, even the one with the most hostility towards him (Jiang Cheng) didn't DISALLOW him from coming to Lotus Pier where in front of him, they transferred crimes previously "done" by him to Jin Guangyao (like the death of Jin Zixuan - let's not fool ourselves and think anyone other than Jin Ling cares about the truth). Not just that, the cultivation world asked "Master Wei" for help.

Wei Wuxian didn't come back to life only to live a terrible, hated, agonizing life. Most people don't care. He doesn't care. Those who care are not strong enough. Those he cares about love him.

Replaced by: Wei Wuxian navigating through life without heavy burdens on his shoulder

Much of the fics focus on the "burden" of the trauma he's been through his life in the fics. Very few focus on the lack of burdens. Like... the guy is now well fed. His feelings are returned. There's nobody in danger. He has a body that can grow a core again. He can slowly pick up Suibian. He can learn new tunes on Chenqing. He can hang out with Wen Ning. He can think back to fond memories. He can paint, read, travel, teach, have great ideas and tap 100% into his actual personality.

He can process stuff he's been through in a healthier way. Like, I don't know, that intrusion scene where LWJ immediately hugs him when the topic of servants come is so important to me, because, it makes me wonder what sorts of conversations they have had. He now gets pampered and indulged - and we all know he loves it, but often the portrayals of his thoughts about being loved is very self critical which isn't canon. And it would be really cool for Wei Wuxian to have just, time, on his hand.

He was barely free for a year and changed the ways of the cultivation society forever. Without much resources or money. Now, the possibilities are endless. He can not only travel, but buy expensive stuff and have a bunch of Lan texts and a very educated and smart husband to help him invent more.

3. CQL Shade but Post-Canon Fics where Wangxian is too busy with responsibilities for each other ???

Why are you guys hurting yourselves? Like, there's only a certain amount of these sorts of fic that's acceptable until it becomes a sort of widely accepted canon.

I think it definitely has to with Chief Cultivator Lan Wangji. My poor baby, his romantic heart, extremely concise replies, and disdain for worldly matters (HIS LITERAL NAME IS WANGJI. HIS SWORD IS BICHEN) was ignored in the favour of making him a cold, busy husband who's sorting minor clan disputes, surrounded by length drabbles and politics by those that once killed his husband.

This is just so awful for me. In the intrustion extra, even after dressing up early, with a guest waiting outside (Master Qin), he lets the guest WAIT than wake Wei Ying up (who sleeps until noon).

If he became chief cultivator the world would collapse. If Wei Ying held onto his robes a little too tightly, he wouldn't even step out of the Jingshi.

Like he told Wei Ying, "I've been damned since long ago." Lan Wangji is a pure romantic. He's never going to be too busy for Wei Wuxian, or too distant, or too cold.

Like, guys just no. Let's write post-canon Wangxian. Not Madam Yu-Jiang Fengmian inspired Wangxian.

[my-hyperfixation-hell]

assigning MDSZ characters TCGF gods (and one calamity) they'd worship

I think the BIGGEST disclaimer I need to put out before this post is that the MDSZ characters would not know these gods personally. Thus, the perspectives I am giving them on the gods are what I think someone unacquainted would think if they heard the myths and legends about the gods, not what they're actually like.

I gave most sects a major martial god to worship, because I think they would. Note that I was going purely off of vibes, but am aware that in canon martial gods are worshipped based off geographic location.

Some characters may get more than one god.

Wei Wuxian: Worships martial gods (Mu Qing in this case) alongside Lotus Pier once adopted into it but never really resonates. As the Yiling Laozu, he worships Crimson Rain Sought Flower, as some mortals canonically do, but never asks for anything from him. The worship is moreso a form of following comforting rituals he once did as a child, and he's well aware he has nothing good to offer a rich ghost king while running the Burial Mounds. He sees Crimson Rain as an outcast much like himself, considering Crimson Rain's relations with the Heavens. I think if he had to pick a martial god, he'd pick Quan Yizhen, because he respects Quan Yizhen's refusal of the status quo.

I get more into Lotus Pier as a whole worshipping Shi Wudu for Jiang Cheng's answer, but I do think Wei Wuxian once got in a lot of trouble for questioning what kind of god uses his own domain to extort mortals into worshipping him. He does not worship Shi Wudu on his own.

Jiang Cheng: Mu Qing is the obvious answer, and while I do agree, I also think if he ever learned of Xie Lian's story he would resonate a lot with it. Having his home destroyed and having to start over from scratch, I think he'd relate to the god of misfortune who lost his entire kingdom and re ascended multiple times, but he may keep that worship private because he's in far too vulnerable a place when he engages in it. I don't think Xie Lian would mind, I think Xie Lian would appreciate a quieter style of worship.

Additionally, Lotus Pier being on the water, they worship Shi Wudu out of necessity to not get their shit wrecked (part 2), but I think Jiang Cheng quietly resents the Water Master in his own heart because he was aware of how easy it would have been for the Water Master to intervene when Lotus Pier was first destroyed, and he simply did not.

Jin Zixuan: Pei Ming, and this represents his off-screen character growth. As a teenager he focused on Pei Ming as a flashy and well-liked martial god he wanted to emulate. As he grew older, and began to love Jiang Yanli very genuinely, he often prayed to Pei Ming for confidence and to help him woo her.

The Jin clan as a whole worships Pei Ming.

Jin Guangyao: Because the rest of the Jin clan does, Jin Guangyao worships Pei Ming for show. In private, he worships Ling Wen, because I view him both as someone who values education and the way she had to claw herself up in a society that did not respect her because she was a woman.

Being educated was part of what gave Jin Guangyao the social mobility he had, even when Jin Guangshan initially rejected him. He had to be well-spoken and persuasive as well as a physically powerful cultivator.

Nie Huaisang: Ling Wen, 100%. He is not aware of her crimes, as mortals wouldn't know all that, but if he did know he'd only support her even harder. To him, a literature god represents everything he wants to do with his life, but can't because he has vengeance to get and his attempts at dodging clan leader status have failed miserably.

I also think he looks up to her as a powerful figure who didn't need to rely on physical force and might to get to where she is. To him, she represents proof that intelligence and the arts are valuable, too.

As a whole, the Nie clan worships Quan Yizhen, because he shares their obsession with combat and their "no thoughts just fists" attitude towards it.

Nie Mingjue: Quan Yizhen, alongside the rest of the Nie clan, 100%. Mistakenly sees parallels in Yin Yu and Jin Guangyao, because he is not aware of the actual story behind the Brocade Immortal situation. All he knows is that there are a ton of stories about how Quan Yizhen's jealous fake martial brother secretly went behind his back and betrayed him.

I also think there are parallels to Quan Yizhen being controlled by the Brocade Immortal and Nie Mingjue by Jin Guangyao's music, even if the actual contexts are entirely different.

Lan Xichen: Alongside the rest of the Cloud Recesses, Lan Xichen would worship Mu Qing as a martial god who ascended out of cultivation above pure might.

I think a part of Lan Xichen would feel drawn towards the Windmaster, too. I think he admires and to some extent envies her free nature, but he doesn't want to abandon his duties like his father did.

Lan Wangji: Of course also Mu Qing, but he would join Wei Wuxian in his worship as well. I think for Lan Wangji, worship of the gods is heavily about routine. He's the kind of person to thrive off consistency, and worship of the gods is one of many parts of cultivation he's been raised with.

[web-novel-polls]

Best Hater Lower Bracket

Please vote for whoever’s best at being a hater, not who you like the most. If unfamiliar with a character, check out the propaganda below the cut! 

Yu Ziyuan from Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation (MDZS)

Submission: I would not blame anyone who went through the first half of the story believing that Yu Ziyuan hated every single person she ever met because she talks shit about her husband, her son, her adopted son, and her daughter whenever she gets the chance to. Sometimes all at the same time. She projects so much raw hater energy that she psychologically scarred her son for life. 

Qi Rong from Heaven Official’s Blessing (TGCF)

“Obviously, those things weren't within the realm of consideration for Qi Rong. He swore like there wasn't a single person in the Three Realms he didn't want cursed to death. He called Pei Ming a rotten manwhore, Little Pei a kiss-ass, Jun Wu a faker, Ling Wen a damned bitch, Lang Qianqiu a moron, Quan Yizhen dog shit, the Water Master blackhearted, the Wind Master a tramp–he probably didn't know Shi Qingxuan was actually a man.” - Heaven Official’s Blessing (Tumblr)

Wiki Link

[mediocretosubpar-soup]

Wild idea: Shen Jiu's qi deviation is a premature ascension necessitated by the sudden power vacuum caused by the fall of Water and Wind Masters.

Shen Jiu who's a genuine asshole with a soft spot for one man and working women seems like a logical shoe-in for Lord Water Master but he takes bubbly, exuberant Shi Qingxuan's position. Shen Jiu isn't enthused about the comparisons being drawn and the unquiet laments of his character. To make matters worse his fucking subordinates keep stonewalling him, and after he makes some disparaging comments about his predecessor, Ling Wen wrinkles her nose at him which all the civil gods take as a cue to refuse to constructively work with him.

Shen Jiu in a fit of rage descends upon the capital. The loser might just be manipulating his efforts via nepotism. Shi Qingxuan is obviously not doing that being busy with such things as surviving destitution and other fun things.

Prior to meeting Shi Qingxuan, Shen Jiu had a clear idea of a fake kind, young master. But it turns out, Shi Qingxuan, if he's anyone resembles Qiu Haitang far more than her horrible brother, so Shen Jiu decides not to enact Qing Jing Peak's flavour of getting rid of unwanted extras. Instead he decides to fuck the gods and the ghosts, he tells his whole story to Shi Qingxuan.

"And I'm just so very worried about my sect and my dear brother Qi-ge. What if this impostor harbors ill intentions? What will beceome of my dearest shixiong?" He sighs heavily. "But even though I'm now the most powerful god whose ever hailed from CQMS, I am bound by heavenly law not to interfere." Another heavy sigh. "What use is all this power, if I can't protect the one I..." A rough hand covers his, Shi Qingxuan meets his eyes solemnly. "Don't throw away your good fate for your brother's sake, I'll head to CQMS right now and check on him. I'll warn him of the impostor and I'll tell him of your good fortune."

And that's how Shi Qingxuan travels to CQMS, where he through some shenanigans ascends as Lord of the Wine peak. (This is possible because due to some very unwise drinking choices the former Lord of Wine peak declared that the position would go to whoever could beat him in combat not in a drinking contest as was tradition and was subsequently trampled to death by an inebriated horny moose shrew. This caused some problems for CQMS as horny moose shrews only lived for up to a decade. It was decided that whoever beat the old Peak lord's drinking record would gain the position.)

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

Now that submissions are closed, we can talk stats. There were 881 valid, unique submissions for 474 characters! Woof, women have it rough out there!

The most submitted characters, with a relevant propaganda snippet included, are:

1. Sakura Haruno (Naruto): 28 [where do i even fucking begin]

2. Cordelia Chase (Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel): 21 [OH SO MANY THINGS]

3. Misa Amane (Death Note): 20 [The author of Death Note invented new forms of misogyny just to apply them to Misa.]

4. Kaede Akamatsu (Danganronpa V3): 15 [Oh, you thought we would have a female main character in one of our mainline games? With a cool defining talent, no less? That's stupid of you]

5. TIE: Kairi (Kingdom Hearts): 14 [I'm so mad. I think she deserves a gun.]

5. TIE: Stephanie Brown (DC Comics): 14 [She does eventually get retconned as surviving the event and hiding out in Africa (don't ask, it does not make more sense in context)]

The canons with the most submissions, with a relevant propaganda snippet included, are:

1. DC Comics: 61 [DC has SO MUCH sexism it's laughable]

2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel: 35 [Fuck Joss Whedon, man.]

3. Naruto: 33 [because Kishimoto hates women]

4. Warrior Cats: 26 [Warriors is one of the most misogynistic children's series I've ever seen]

5. Danganronpa: 25 [I honestly had to think about it just to decide which woman is treated the worst because this series hates them so much]

The canons with the most characters submitted, with a relevant propaganda snippet for a specific character included, are:

1. DC Comics: 21 [Free her from the huge tits back breaking pose.]

2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel: 12 [Anyways she was so hot and for what. 10/10 my lesbian awakening.]

3. Supernatural: 11 [Yeah, she got randomly killed off-screen for shock value and manpain, but she sent an email right before she died so at least her death wasn't in vain, right?]

4. TIE: Star Trek: 9 [She literally gets teleported out of her clothes in one episode.]

4. TIE: Yu-Gi-Oh!: 9 [One loss is particularly brutal as she falls from a large height directly onto her head and goes into a coma (again. yes this was the second time).]

5. TIE: Warrior Cats: 8 [I'm sure she'll get submitted again just ask any reasonable fan they'll tell you about her and her sister]

5. TIE: Attack on Titan: 8 [As a child soldier, she does commit some war crimes]

And here are some charts to show how some of these entries fucked the scale on my charts:

Look at Sakura, fucking up my chart with her numbers.

On a similar note...

Good god, DC, I know what you did, but add fucking up my charts to your list of crimes.

And now, enjoy some rankings of my favorite things:

My favorite universal sentiment quotes from propaganda are:

She lived she served cunt and then she got killed off super early so that the male characters could experience man pain and also because I guess she would have been too powerful if left alive. [Wen Qing (Mo Dao Zu Shi)]

That design. Dear god. I don't want to live on this planet anymore. [Mitzi (The Queen's Corgi)]

In the end she may have girlbossed too close to the sun, but I support her anger. [Ling Wen (Heaven Official's Blessing)]

the victim of “writer doesn’t understand women and also hates them” disease. [Naomi Misora (Death Note)]

She could 100% kill somebody but nobody ever effing lets her. Rip queen. [Kairi (Kingdom Hearts)]

My favorite raging at a writer quotes from propaganda are:

1. You took every single protagonist to weird lion heaven, Clive, but suddenly Susan isn't good enough. [Susan Pevensie (The Chronicles of Narnia)]

2. Being a woman written by Joss Whedon should automatically entitle her to financial compensation tbh. [River Tam (Firefly)]

3. A lot can be summed up in a couple words, namely, "Furman, why?" [Arcee (Transformers)]

4. Can you tell respect women juice ran in Tolstoy's veins. [Lise Bolkonskaya (War and Peace)]

5. TIE: (specifically a guy called Dan Didio, who we all hate) [Stephanie Brown (DC Comics)]

5. TIE: until Geoff motherfucking Johns comes into the picture [Pantha (DC Comics)]

My favorite quotes from propaganda that have nothing to do with misogyny, y'all are just funny:

I wish I could use bold here, because there's no such thing as uppercase numbers. [Arcee (Transformers)]

the most convoluted and lore dense piece of media this side of the afton criticality. [Jane Crocker (Homestuck)]

ended up starting a gang war by accident [Stephanie Brown (DC Comics)]

Ashfur, who later turns out to be a murderous incel [Squirrelflight (Warrior Cats)]

Hawkfrost is actively seeing Brambleclaw and his evil father in cat hell. [Squirrelflight (Warrior Cats)]

[poorlittleyaoyao]

Actually I find very fitting how women are treated in mdzs. Mdzs's world is homophobic, classicist and misogynistic. Imo Mdzs's world represents the worst of the real world, so I find very suitable that in a patriarch/misogyny society where reputation is what matter the most, women payed the consequences of men's choices. The fact that they have no agency makes their stories even more tragic (like Greek heroines) imo. I've read historical novels from a very youth age, so I am accustomed to this. (disclaimer : that doesn't mean that I am not frustrated with the narrative or our assholes as wwx wn etc... ). What makes me very upset is how fans treat mdzs's women! Wq is not a Mean Lesbian, who is just wwx's best friend. jyl is not just wwx's mom or, even worst, a badass kickass (she is ill! She can't cultivate! Madam yu would love to have a badass daughter, but she can't! She has a chronic illness!!! ). And madam yu reminds me so much of Medea but she doesn't have the same hype. These women are trapped two times : firstly by the narrative and then by fans and I find myself less tolerant towards the latter

When I saw this ask yesterday, my gut response to the comparison between Greek tragedies and MDZS was to be like "no!! it's not the same!!" But I couldn't immediately identify why I felt that way. All the works that have given me lasting brainworms are historical tragedies with mostly-male casts and moral complexity. Everything I vibe with can be traced in some way back to getting fixated on the Trojan War, MDZS/CQL included. So what's different? I have been pondering it ever since then. So thank you, anon, for making me think!

For me, I think what it comes down to is that the issues you mentioned--the classism, the homophobia, and the misogyny--aren't actually explored within the text itself. The in-universe homophobia primarily manifests itself as people saying slurs at Wangxian. There is no external pressure to enter into heterosexual unions and have children to ensure a line of succession (3/4 of the sect leaders are unmarried after the timeskip, after all), nor is there the internal conflict of unpacking internalized homophobia. Classism is examined more with JGY's whole deal, but when the only character pointing out the flaws in the status quo is the Crimes Man, it muddles the message somewhat.

As to the misogyny... with the notable exception of QS, none of the women in MDZS die for reasons that relate to in-universe inequality. YZY, A-Qing, WQ, and JYL all die making the active choice to protect someone or something. Taken individually, all of their deaths make sense. The problems is when you take them as a whole, and you realize that the mortality rate for women in the series is off the chain. Below is a list of all the named characters who show up for more than one scene in MDZS. Bolded characters live, struck-through characters die.

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Wang Lingjiao Lan Qiren                     Madame Jin Lan Jingyi                     Qin Su Lan Sizhui                   Luo Qingyang Wen Ning                      A-Qing Wen Chao                                            Wen Ruohan                                         Wen Zhuliu Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Jin Guangshan                                                Jin Zixun Jin Guangyao Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xue Yang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Su Minshan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

That's bonkers! It's even worse if you don't count the dead characters who quote-unquote "deserved it" for murdering people, which changes the list to:

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Madame Jin Lan Qiren                     Qin Su Lan Jingyi                     Luo Qingyang Lan Sizhui                   A-Qing Wen Ning                       Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

Again, the women's deaths each make sense individually, but as a trend, it's fucking wild, and that's what bothers me. There's no actual honest-to-god plot reason why the ratio has to be this way. Why can't Lan Qiren be a strict auntie? Why can't the juniors be a mixed-gender group? Additionally, there's the matter of how the deaths are treated. NMJ's death is the entire reason for the book; JZX's memory is invoked as much as JYL's. It's not that bad things happen to the women, it's that they're unnecessarily killed off at a disproportionate amount.

ALL THAT SAID. ALL THAT SAID!! You're absolutely right about fan treatment. One would think that these interesting women who don't get to take center stage in canon (and thus have a lot left to explore!) would be a GOLDMINE, but instead they're sanded down like you said. It must be ROUGH trying to find fic about JYL in particular, because so much of what she's tagged in is just her being WWX's Gentle Soup Sister in the background. Wangxian is far and away the biggest pairing WQ's tag--not just for MDZS, but for The Untamed, where she's a much bigger character! I sense that you're more charitable towards the canons than I am, anon, but at least the canons are honest about what they're about and aren't patting themselves on the back for their super progressive inclusion of a Mean Lesbian Friend or whatever.

[symphonyofsilence]

There's something that I noticed about most of the deaths in CQL/MDZS:

Jin Zixuan: *stands between WWX & his bitch of a cousin* "A-Li is still waiting-...A-Li is still waiting for you at Golden Carp Tower."

Jiang Yanli:" A-Xian, before, why did you run so fast? I didn't even get the chance to look at you. Or say something to you. I'm here to say...I'm here to say..." *pushes Wei Wuxian away & dies saving him*

Wen Qing: "I'm sorry. And thank you." *gives herself and his dearer than eyesight brother up to save WWX. Says goodbye to his loved- ones and goes to her death with her head held high & gives a reassuring smile at Wen Ning while she hold his hand as they wait for their death.*

Yu ZiYuan: *gives up Zidian to JC and sends her kids away, in CQL kills herself when she sees that her husband has fallen, tries to reach for her husband, dies holding his hand and smiling at him.*

Jiang Fengmian: *sends his kids away, goes back for his wife, in his last moments he reaches his hand out to hold hers and dies holding her hand and smiling at her.*

Xue Yang: *risks his life by going to WWX and LWJ to try to save XXC, loses his temper for the first time in the fight when Lan Zhan takes XXC's soul's pouch, falls into WWX's tap when WWX says that he just wants to resurrect XXC to play more games with him and that the revenge he sought was bc of XXC, not himself, dies looking at XXC's candies as he holds them in his hands*

A-Qing: *dies helping LWJ to wound XY. Finally taking the revenge for XXC that she had sought for years.*

Song Lan: *finally finds XXC and seems nervous but determined to reconcile with him and ask him for forgiveness, fights Xue Yang because of him, falters when XY reminds him of what he said to XXC, loses the fight with XY when he calls XXC's name. In his last seconds hold out his sword to XXC in hopes that he can touch the sword's name.*

Wei WuXian (in the show): *smiles at LWJ and very softly calls his name and asks him yo let him go, smiles at JC and as his last words, very softly calls Jiang Cheng's name, closes his eyes and smiles while shedding tears in acceptance when he sees JC's anger and heartbreak, frees his hand out of LWJ's grip when he sees that LWJ might fall with him.*

Jin GuangYao: Er-ge, stay & die with me. *pushes Lan Xichen away* (closely followed by fuck you NMJ but it's not relevant rn.)

THEY'RE ALL ABOUT LOVE! THE LAST ACTS AND THE LAST WORDS ARE ALL OUT OF LOVE!

I'm especially thinking of how Xue Yang, Jin GuangYao & Wei WuXian all died knowing that if nothing else, they were loved, & maybe it wasn't enough compared to the whole shitshow, but it made it all worth something

They smiled before they died.

It's also true for the last scenes of the characters: Song Lan asks Wangxian to tell Xiao Xingchen that it wasn't his fault if they ever see him, the Wen remnants as fierce corpses save Lan Sizhiu & WWX & those with them and bid LSZ farewell, Lan Xichen leaves the story mourning JGY, Nie Huaisang takes JGY's cap with him before he leaves(in the book)/is affirmed to be the mastermind behind everything because he was seeking revenge for his brother (in CQL), Jin Ling decides that even though JGY, WWX & WN all had a hands on his father's death he can't hate them 'cause they've all given him reasons to be unable to. He then asks JC why he let WWX & LWJ go and asks him what was it that he had left unsaid, Jiang Cheng's last scene is him remembering his sacrifice for WWX and deciding that he can't reveal it to him for the same reason that WWX couldn't reveal his own sacrifice to him, in CQL he tells WWX to "take care.", Lan Sizhui remembers WWX from his childhood and they reminisce the past, he hugs WWX's leg and teases him about his PG-13 teachings to him back at that time, and he & Wen Ning, still happy to have found each other decide that they're going to bury the ashes of their people properly & Wen Ning declares that he's going to make his sister a cenotaph, Wangxian... get busy Wangxianning.

NMJ's death and last scene are mostly driven by hatred & anger & spite, but still, he comes to his right mind when NHS comes close and calls him as he qi deviates, and his fierce corpse kills SMS as NHS shouts for help, so I guess that kinda counts?

[cerusee]

While I love most of your Untamed fics(I am saving your latest to read once we get past family medical stuff and I have energy to comment.), the one that sticks in my mind is "

Lan Sizhui was nodding along, hopefully. “He looked after me all the time when I was little. He was so gentle and kind to me. I don’t think he’ll frighten her, Jiang-zongzhu—I can’t ever remember being afraid of Ning-gege!”

“So you see, Jiang Cheng?” Wei Wuxian said hopefully. “There’s nothing to worry about! Shu-er couldn’t be safer with Wen Ning!”

Jiang Cheng breathed in through his nose, and out, and in, and out, and and then lost it. “That’s fine. Was Jin Ling’s father safe with him?”

And now, the entire room was as tense as his jaw. Fifteen minutes ago, I was happy… He regretted saying that in front of Jin Ling, and yet." From the Challengers series. Just...so much pain, but also so damned justified. (I also love One Slash, Two Hearts!, but this is the one scene I keep returning too.)

I’ve been there recently and I know much that eats your brain. ❤️❤️❤️ I hope your family medical stuff resolves as well as it can. (And I hope the story you’re saving for later is a pleasure or a comfort to you when you get there. But if you never read it, that’s okay too, because I know how that goes, truly.)

Oh man, that said. Y’all keep pulling up my greatest hits. I LOVE THIS SCENE. *flails* I love conflict…I didn’t deliberately put all these characters into this situation just to see them squirm? But my god that was a bonus.