#syscourse tag

[smilepilled]

i am not ever going to label myself as "anti endo" or "pro endo" or "neu endo" because none of these are true. i genuinely believe this entire topic is just online crusading/witchhunts with hefty misinformation from too many people in the polar opposite sides. i can have nuance. you can have nuance. we all can have nuance. but that's not gonna happen when we're all focused on sending death threats and making callout posts/blocklists. 👍

as a osdd having person, please just sit the fuck down and listen a little. lets do this without lynching people.

[bookshelfed-journeys-sys]

I find it very telling yet not surprising that anti-endos recently have been wanting to more and more associate with that @/syspunk-is-antiendo or whatever person when it is public knowledge that they are very proudly a transmedicalist who is anti-xenogenders and neopronouns simply because they don't understand them. Like, I thought we all agreed, regardless of our opinions on endogenic systems that transmedicalism is pretty transphobic and bigoted in many other ways.

Or are they just gonna take a step on years backwards to not associate with (pro)endogenic systems as much as possible because y'all prefer to associate with actual hate groups that have hurt multiple minorities just for the sake of "proving" that endogenic systems aren't real systems?

Honestly, again, I'm not too surprised, y'all anti-endos ARE hate group, or at least slowly becoming into one, and some of yall ACKNOWLEDGE you guys are part of a hate group, but u just don't care enough, you don't actually care about traumatized people, y'all have shamed people who are pro-endo due to being traumatized by the anti-endo community and then you claim you support people with trauma, well, as someone who has childhood trauma myself and is still living in an abusive environment with my grandfather and is therefore TRAUMATIZED, You are NOT supporting us, you are doing to complete opposite by assuming others' conditions just because they DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU AS A PERSON???

– Nezha 🪷 (he/she/they/lotus)

[osdd-1bedamned]

i think bragging about how not disabled you are shows how you really feel towards actually disabled people.

[positivitycombopack]

following bc I'm questioning whether I have osdd-1a

but I really appreciate you respectfully clarifying that this space is for trauma based systems.. without shitting on systems of other origins

Idk it’s just refreshing

Of course! At the risk of sounding syscoursey on this blog (and I’ll tag it appropriately, followers), this space is for positivity for my disorder and others who face similar struggles. That’s all! This is a trauma based space. ❤️ I wish you luck and some good vibes!

[bookshelfed-journeys-sys]

THEY HAVE A MEMBER COUNT LIMIT??? AND IF YOU GO ABOVE IT THEY START THINKING UR FAKING?????!!!!

Before it catches on, octocon is anti endo and will ban you if you speak positively about plurals

[frameacloud]

Some fact checks about plurality

The "Bible of psychiatry" is the DSM. In 1994, the DSM changed the name of Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This was in response to a moral panic where critics claimed that the condition was fake.

The original and current diagnostic criteria do not require trauma for DID (or MPD) (DSM-III, p. 259; DSM-III-R, p. 272; DSM-5-TR, p. 331).

The international counterpart of the DSM is the ICD-11. Its essential features for DID do not require trauma, either.

Both books say that not all cases of multiple personalities are a disorder or a severe impairment. Psychiatry recognizes that medicalizing them is not always appropriate.

Plurality (or multiplicity) is a community umbrella term for many ways of being more than one person in a body. Psychiatrists who know enough about DID are aware of it. Plurality includes but is not the same as DID.

The community has always included plurals who formed for reasons other than trauma. Dividing the community by excluding non-traumagenic plurals and calling them fake is new. That only started in August 2014 on Tumblr, unheard of elsewhere.

When that started, a trauma-caused DID system created the word "endogenic." This means plurals who formed naturally rather than from trauma. The Lunastus Collective coined it in solidarity with them.

(Similarly, the coiner of another umbrella term, "alterhuman," is a member of a traumagenic OSDD system who supports endogenic plurals. The purpose of that word is for plural systems to unite with other sorts who differ from usual definitions of human individual, valuing what we do and do not have in common, instead of in-fighting about who is more legitimate.)

Community historian LB Lee gives several good reasons why-- as trauma-surviving plurals-- they choose not to call themselves "traumagenic" or divide the community by origins. If I may briefly paraphrase a couple of these: If you see suffering as your whole foundation of who you are, then you have a more difficult time envisioning a better situation. If you want others to respect you, a losing strategy is to put down people who are seen as similar to you.

Neither psychiatry nor the greater community of plurals see trauma history as an important distinction in determining whether someone is plural.

[possessed-pack]

Okay but will there actually come a day where anti-endos stop being ableist while also accusing others of being ableist? You can't preach that you're "protecting victims" while also sitting there being all "endos/those who support them are delusional!!". Psychosis is not your tool for hate, and psychotic people are no lesser than anyone else and do not deserve to be used to discredit other peoples experiences that you simply don't understand. Traumagenic DID systems who support endos exist, but you hate those too--what happened to protecting "actual trauma survivors"? You are not protecting disabled people, you are using them as a tool to explain your hatred for things you don't care to understand.

[smilepilled]

erm so are you pro endo. asking because we’re endo - @jnertia

my stance regarding syscourse is hard to name, i dont like putting myself in "pro endo" or "neu endo" or "anti endo" at all. i think the medical sector sucks, and also that people shouldnt do cultural appropriation { regarding tulpamancy for a very considerably huge part }, but i do agree with the psych abolitionist ideals, because plurality is under-researched + the little info that we have is hung above our heads as a way of controlling our ways of being and seeing ourselves.

i think i've come to not care about someone's plural origins, because it simply doesnt concern to me and < dealing with my plurality is something more important to me > than arguing pointlessly against people's existences. i don't care if you're an endo for the most part, because as a intersex person, i can completely understand the urge to stay away from the medical sector-- it is abusive, it is a tool for oppression for so many different marginalized groups, yet people suddenly forget this.

i don't like discourse. and i won't even say "if you are doing anything dangerous, please keep one arm distance from me", unless you're actively harming others — if youre harming yourself, all i can offer is a helping hand and advice, or a place to vent. i will not harrass, target, or otherwise mistreat anyone, but there are certain things that do feel too risky in current times for me — namely: syshopping/systravel to other systems, giving/selling/gifting alters, willingly creating alters, etc., but this isn't reason for me to harrass or target people online.

its just not worth my time and energy.

especially considering so many endos are traumagenic or otherwise deal with mentall illness. i think preserving people's wellbeings is more important than being scientifically or discourse-ly right. i care about people more than the discussion of their communities or labels, even if i have personal limits with communities and labels that actively propagate abuse.

i just dont care. if you have love in your heart, if youre trying to break free from being held down by any system, then i see you and i love you. and i owe you my care, my welcomeness.

[bookshelfed-journeys-sys]

"Endos wouldn't be fakeclaimed if they were real!!"

So... What about other people with other types of mental disorders? Many other non-endo systems get fakeclaimed anyways, are they suddenly not real either??

What about people with tics, or with schizophrenia, or any other kind of other disorder that gets fakeclaimed a lot? Are they just suddenly not real either???

This logic is basically a logic I've seen so much around in anti-endo spaces lately, it is sickening, they are not even hidding the fact they support or are fakeclaimers anymore, they just are proudly admitting to be.

What is with anti-endos these days not even caring about being called ableist anymore and instead just using that label like a badge with PRIDE, and encouraging eachother to send death threats and sexually harass (pro)endos?! Everyday they are just showing they just don't care about traumatized people or even systems in general as they claim they do!

"We are not a hate group! We are just chilling here!!" Yet you proudly admit the next day ur part of a hate group and harass people and call people delusional AS AN INSULT WHICH IS INHERENTLY ABLEIST

[osdd-1bedamned]

Syscourse is... quite frankly, shit right now. So,

Here's your reminder to drink water, to eat, and to do something fun. Read a book, play a video game; personally, we've been playing the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Cowabunga Collection. Go outside, take a walk. Do something else.

Just... remember that syscourse isn't everything there is to life, and even if you don't think you need a break, you should probably take one anyway.

Take care, fellow systems.

[ghxst-system]

"The future is plural" movement from endos is CONCERNING

regardless of the fact they do not believe you require trauma to be a system (medically impossible) this proves they want to groom kids into identifying as endo and spread their medical misinformation further.

as well as causing real systems to believe they dont have it bad enough to be "traumagenic" (the only "genic you can be. this language is bullshit im just using these terms to explain their shit), preventing them from getting real help. they are WIDELY anti-recovery.

their misinformation has ALREADY endangered real systems medically as they have made professionals skeptical of a medically proven disorder, a disorder that is already very stigmatised.

outside of just endogenic misinformation, this statement leads to the idea that they want to traumatise kids to make more systems.

ENDOS ARE FUCKING DANGEROUS

[13conk9s]

idgaf what origin label people use but if youre endo or traumaendo ONLY BECAUSE you dont feel like your trauma was enough that is the devil talking. if youre mixed origin ONLY BECAUSE your trauma “wasnt that bad”, or wasnt caused by your immediate family, that is the devil talking, you are traumagenic. for the love of god “bulligenic” and other types are SUBTYPES of traumagenic. THEY ARE TRAUMAGENIC. im so tired

[forget-meabh-not]

THE ASTRO MASTERDOC

Hi hello . We finished up the Astro doc ( as much as we can holy shit he posts a lot )

thank you very much @thecorporatetower for helping us !!

^ here’s the doc in its messy glory :33

anyways yeah 👍 while we are pro Endo we do not care if anti Endos see this post and read the doc since Astro is litteraly a complete pile of sludge for everyone .

-???(it/bite/claw)

[littlest-bugz]

The Collective You

[one system's brief advice about accepting the idea of the collective you]

One of the best pieces of system advice started from a tumblr post and was elaborated by my DID specialist. I can't find the original tumblr post that started it, so I'm making a little post of my own <3 Share the knowledge. and also hope that someone can link the original post lol.

When I was REALLY going through it™ with my first diagnosis w/ DID, and a lack of integration, all of my alters felt like separate individuals, some of us feeling as distanced as a coworker or a stranger altogether. We were just getting a grasp on internal communication between all of our subsystems, and it was rough. We felt so entirely differentiated that we were our own people trapped in one body. While I don't really care about what language you use, all alters in CDDs are a part of one person [there's only one body and brain]- the collective you.

So obvs, I'm scrolling tumblr like the chronically online doomscroller that I am, and I see this post that goes along the line of not knowing who you are, but knowing you are 'you', regardless of who you are [referring to alters]. And it said something like "we're all me enough to pick up our meds"- something like that. iirc it was a half light hearted, half advice post, but that was really good advice for me. I kind of internalized it after I processed it in therapy. It's actually why I have started to love parts language lately tbh.

After further processing this idea in therapy, Identity Confusion stopped mattering in the grand scheme of things. I focused less on worrying about who I was, and just focused on the fact that I'm me. Just like the post I saw- We are all me. The example of all being me enough to pick up my medications just applied, like, everywhere. Even when it came down to the smallest things- with coping with other symptoms too.

Oh? I don't like coffee right now? I guess I should switch to something else. [differentiated alters]

Oh? I have barely any drawing skills right now? Okay, really sucks but I can work on something else and come back to it later. [skill variance between alters]

Oh? I have to go to a doctor's appointment? I know I'll forget that- Gotta write a list, and put it up on the board so I remember. [day to day amnesia]

You know what happened? My dissociation got better! Not immediately or entirely, obviously, and my memory [re amnesia] still sucks, but that's part of the disorder- plus other disorders that I have. This idea of the collective you is something that I think is really beneficial to all CDD systems, especially during the mid to later stages of recovery.

I, admittedly, credit most of my healing to conversations I have had with my DID specialist. Especially since, without her, I wouldn't have been able to process this idea of the collective me further, but the conversation wouldn't have been started if I hadn't seen that post on tumblr. This was a budding concept with us due to the separation we had. It helped with integration. GRANTED... Not every alter got the memo, obviously, but It's something that I'm still working on. Of course, being me comes with the prerequisite that I am a person with DID, and that I am made up of multiple parts.

Now for the piece of advice I got from my therapist- Though it requires a certain level of knowledge of your own system, such as a list of alters and some identifying info [fav drinks, fav colors, those type of things]. Look at the list of your alters wherever it may be. Just whatever you use for logging your system members. Look for the commonalities between alters. There will be at least some commonalities.

For example; A good 45% of us like bunnies, 45% like cats, and 10% have a liking for other kinds of animals. Using this information, I can pretty much deduce that 1. the collective me loves animals and 2. the collective me likes cats and bunnies especially.

Another example; I looked through our simplyplural, which has a favorite color thing [in ours at least]. By looking through the list, I figured out 1. wow I like literally all colors- my fav color is rainbows and 2. I especially like pink and light blue.

More examples; the list.. THE LIST... I looked through it and saw that a good 90% of us like MONSTER ENERGY DRINKS- of varying flavors, but the common denominator was Ultra Strawberry Dreams, but all of us like [or tolerate] water as a preferred drink. From there I can come to the conclusion that I prefer water over anything else and that I have a problem with monster [being light hearted but I genuinely do].

I hope you get the idea I'm going for. I used this process for nearly every aspect of our collective identity, though some had to genuinely be voted on, such as our LGBTQIA+ labels [offline, we just call ourself queer, but that's.. aside the point LMAO].

Obviously, there are going to be outliers- Having DID comes with the fun [/s] aspect of alters being differentiated from each other in some capacity. Example for the monster energy one- We have a handful of alters that HATE energy drinks- even just fizzy drinks in general. There's one guy who will only drink Black Coffee and water- nothing else. He's the guy who is always hiding away our monsters in the way back of the fridge, but guess what!! He's me!! The part of me that doesn't want me to ruin my health over energy drinks. The part of me that knows I deserve better than my unhealthy habits.

Getting to know the collective you is just like learning about your system! It is not inherently different than figuring out what an alters dislikes or likes are. The idea of The Collective You shouldn't feel scary or anxiety inducing- if it is, you may want to confront those feelings with a therapist if you have access to one. Every CDD system is the collective [or, well, system] of one fragmented individual- That is a studied and objective fact. I wanted to give advice from one recovering system to another.

No, this will not work for everyone, every system is different, but I'm hoping this post finds the right audience in knowing that it's worth a shot to try this!

[smilepilled]

anon you're really, really funny.

a hefty amount of endos >> are << traumagenic plurals who are either: (1) securing themselves from remembering loads of trauma they can't deal with (which is okay and dealing with having trauma shouldn't be forced); ORRR (2) psych/medical abolitionists (many diff situations but mainly. they dont wanna force themselves to solely focus on medical records and the like. similarly to intersex people being med abolitionists, for example, but naturally there's many many differences!!!)

i can understand disliking things like appropriated tulpamancy, or potentially extremely dangerous practices like giving/selling/creating/gifting alters, syshopping/intrasys travel, or the like— but also, i can't understand people who cling to a field that hangs (either the lack of or just the) information above your head as well as oppress multiple minorities systematically. a lot of people don't even have access to a psychiatrist or a professional, by many different reasons, so it comes off oddly when people are so strongly "go see a doctor!" about this... classism? hello? have you forgotten people can be poor? or live in families where its heavily stigmatized?

overall just made me giggle. as a traumagenic multiple i don't care what people have going on with how they label their experiences or whats up, unless its actively dangerous or harmful to people. otherwise? do ya thing

its gross to see so many truamagen systems say they're pro/endo neutral when it's like, they invaded our spaces and now we're buddy buddy all of a sudden??? (ive seen this so much on editblr recently it gen makes me sick)

.

[archivekin]

We need to kill the idea that you can’t both be a “real” alterhuman and have fun. You don’t have to take yourself super seriously 100% of the time to be who you say you are. Experiencing joy and laughter and whimsy is a good thing, and it’s actually far healthier to seek those over community validation through performing the “correct” amount of stoicism and misery.