#shipping is not a BAD thing inherently it’s just?

[dykedvonte]

You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

[sleepymccoy]

Okay so something happened in the trekdom (is that a term anyone has ever used)

I think spirk got canonised?? Or something?? And I assume that as my certified Trekkie Mutual you feel some kinda way about this. you’re a Spones shipper but still how we doing?

I'm sure someone's used trekdom! It makes sense as a word regardless

I appreciate the Trekkie certification lol

Yeah dude, look. Most of the fandom is big into spirk so like people enjoying that romance is par for the course! I got nothing against spirk, it's just a bit of a boring dynamic so I don't really spend time on it. Too healthy for my tastes. Spones is way more juicy, it's got the tension and the sort of different world views that you see in good omens, so it's fun!

To be clear tho, spirk is as canon as it's ever been. Strong subtext, but in the way that a homophobe could watch it and say well they're just good friends. Nothing has changed in that sense, it's just another bit of footage doing more of the same. It's less gay than a lot of the original series, but it's new and shiny so on a surface level i get the excitement

Shatner, who plays Kirk, has done this as a non canon short film. It's apparently considered as canon as the novels? Which is like, not much. Most people don't engage. I haven't really looked into that, im not gonna watch it cos it kind of pisses me off

The thing that really fucks my goat about it is that the guy who plays Spock died a while ago, and didn't get along with the guy who plays Kirk. But the guy who plays Kirk has funded and produced and managed this whole thing to be about his character and his importance, regardless of the wishes of the original Spock actor. Including literally doing someone up in prosthetics to look more like Nimoy. Not just Spock generally, but specifically Nimoy's Spock. Nimoy was involved in star trek films in his late life, and he didn't choose to do this when he was alive. Only after his death has Shatner forced this to happen

That's what's leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. And I feel like people are either not accepting Nimoy's death and are happy to see him puppeted by someone he disliked, which makes me pity them. I work in aged care so I know I'm more comfortable with death than the average, but like. This is a bit fucking dark, no? It's maudlin, let him rest in peace for fucks sake.

That, or they don't mind the manipulation of his image if it tickles their ship, which makes me dislike them. And I don't think I'll really get over that any time soon, it's so disrespectful. And those are both negative feelings, so I'm kind of generally not pleased about my dash rn

I'm trying to take an angle of being about McCoy cos he doesn't feature in the short and that feels wrong. Spock-centric stuff is feeling a little tainted right now, but I'm sure that'll pass. Fanart is different to this kind of image stealing, but it's still weird for me rn. And as much as I love Kirk, I can't remove him from Shatner and his megalomania right now. I hope that'll pass, but I don't think Shatner's gonna stop here so. Hm.

Besides I like McCoy and he's not complicated by all this so I'm just continuing to play in my little sandbox

It's a weird time for trekdom. There's a bit of a rift, and not down shipping lines. I'm seeing a lot of posts working through their complicated feeling around the disrespect inherent in stealing Nimoy's face for Shatner. And I'm seeing other people celebrate the disrespect cos their ship held hands and that makes it worth it.

I'm hoping people overwhelmingly calm down a bit in a week, get a bit embarassed about how pleased they were over something so gross, and it just sort of goes away. Then we can all go back to having a go at Shatner for his constant sexism and homophobia

At least it's not fucking AI tho!

[tamilhobbit]

Rewatched Dead Men Tell No Tales/Salazar's Revenge today and boy, was it a disappointment. Absolute low point of the franchise. Genuinely surprised that the original writers were involved.

On Stranger Tides shows a much softer side of Jack but it's still pretty consistent with the choices he made in the original trilogy, and he has quite a lot of agency in the plot. The film lacks the clever cinematography of the original trilogy but it's still pleasant to watch. The night combat scenes are clearly lit, even if the combat itself isn't as gripping. The plot is weak, but entertaining enough. Not as good as the first three, but not bad.

Dead Men Tell No Tales is just awful. For one thing, it isn't even consistent with the previous films in terms of lore. The trilogy establishes, in DMC, that Jack bartered the compass from Tia Dalma. Here, in a flashback, he gets it from his old captain on the Wicked Wench while fighting Salazar?

Also, there is no damn reason for Will to even be cursed, which is what kicks off the plot. The only reason Davy Jones and crew were fish people was that he neglected his duty of ferrying souls. Will knows this. He knows the cost. He wants to be with Elizabeth every ten years. He would not neglect his duty. There is no inherent turning-into-a-monster curse tied into his role as captain of the Dutchman, and at the end of At World's End we see him returning after ten years, looking perfectly human and normal. Why would he suddenly be cursed after that?

Jack has literally no agency in this film. He achieves nothing and makes no difference to the plot! Henry is the one executing the daring rescue. Carina navigates. Barbossa does the double-crossing and also captains the Pearl. Jack has a fight with Salazar at some point but it's at night, poorly lit, and again achieves very little. Nothing has changed at the end of their fight. None of those clever acrobatics that cripple his pursuers we saw in previous films. The flashback to young Jack was cool, I guess. But his total lack of care when he thinks the Black Pearl has sunk is horrifically out of character.

Again, at the end, he's just sort of... there. He is an object for Salazar to pursue, a distraction while Henry and Carina achieve their objectives and Barbossa redeems himself.

Barbossa has a nice arc, though I think the daughter twist is rushed in order to make us feel sadder when he sacrifices himself. And I quite like Carina. There's clearly been an attempt to place Henry and Carina in the places of Will and Elizabeth, and they've tried to make Carina feisty and driven but in a different direction than Elizabeth, which I appreciate. She and Henry fall for each other very fast, though.

Also, I hate that Elizabeth is apparently dressed nicely and sitting pretty in her beach house, waiting and doing nothing. If she knew that Will was cursed, why would she not be out there doing everything she can to save him? She's the freaking Pirate King. She could not be held back in the trilogy. She's not old, either - she was fairly young when she had Henry, and Henry is clearly old enough to fend for himself now. They could have gone looking for ways to save Will together.

In many ways Dead Men Tell No Tales is just Dead Man's Chest disappointingly remixed - undead crew on a destructive cursed ship with special abilities, led by a captain who can't step on land and has a grudge against Jack Sparrow, controlling horrid sea creatures. A POC witch embodying all sorts of racist caricatures. A Turner seeking a way to free his cursed father, and in love with a feisty girl. Everyone searching for a magical McGuffin that will give them control or mastery of the seas, and they need Jack's compass for it.

It's especially egregiously disappointing after how good the original trilogy was. The plot in those certainly wasn't perfect, but it was tight enough and fast-paced and entertaining enough that you didn't care. The stakes were high, the villains were chilling, and the protagonists were cheekily morally ambiguous in their swashbuckling. The cinematography was stunning. The only real good things about this instalment were the music (which was reused from the previous films) and seeing Will and Elizabeth again.

Comments on Pirates of the Caribbean

So, I rewatch the first one after years bc I was sick by the Johnny Depp bullshit and through his presence would ruin the movie for me, thankfully, it didn't.

- Why don't they make blockbusters like this anymore? The scale of the production, everything feels so real, so damn good. They only used CGI when they needed it.

-Now I noticed that Elizabeth, Will and Jack have "friendship" matching scars, as all the three of them have a long cut on the palm of their hand.

-When Barbossa is about to cut Elizabeth, thinking her blood is the one they needed, instead of cutting her throat (something that was expected of him) he just cut her hand and when even Elizabeth looked confused at him, he says "waste not"

At first I thought that he was being nice, like there's no need to kill her, and this being a Disney movie really makes me think that. But now I get it, he wasn't being nice, he was being a nightmare as he only didn't kill her bc he was planning on SA her as soon as the curse was off. That's dark.

And it's weirdly nice to see how their relationship goes from this nightmare, to Barbossa not only actually respecting and acknowledge Elizabeth as one of them, but also with Elizabeth asking him to marry her with Will. It's like they became buddies at the end, almost lol

-People often praise only Johnny Depp for the success of the trilogy, and yes, he was good I got to admit but he wasn't the sole reason of the movies success. The proof of that is that after Worlds End, the movies went down in quality and will not pretend that the writing and production didn't go down either but the thing is that the characters also were not near as charming, charismatic and just as good as Elizabeth, Will, Barbossa, Davy Jones the crew guys...Jack Sparrow is good but he needs good company to truly shine. And the chemistry they all had towards each other plays a big part in the trilogy success. Jack Sparrow is amazing, but only when he isn't the protagonist.

Edit 1: I've saw the second and third ones again today and damn Hans Zimmer was inspired, the Davy Jones theme is the Best villain theme song (sorry Darth Vader)

At world's end, who also is the Will and Elizabeth theme(with some minor changes) is so good. It's not only good, it's a masterpiece. One of my fav original movie songs ever.

-Elizabeth arc is so well done. From damsel in distress, to pirate, to pirate queen. And it was natural, didn't feel forced at all. Even when she was damsel in distress, she wasn't helpless. In the first movie, after the ship battle, she launched herself at Barbossa , to punch in bc she thought Will was gone. She was always fierce.

And now in the second and third movie when she already knew how to fight...she became a menace.

-And Elizabeth lost her dad, her friend and the love of her life in like, just a few days. Damn. And all of the men she kissed, died lol. Jack, Norrington, Sao Feng and Will, and they all die right after kissing her. I bet she has some sort of "black widow" reputation among the sailors

-Jack really cared for both Elizabeth and Will, and we can see it in the scene when he told Elizabeth that her father was gone and when Davy Jones killed Will. And it makes sense cuz Jack was important in their journey from day one, and he saw their growth from naive young adults to pirates.

-Without a doubt, one of the best trilogies we have.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

once again, antis on OWOT calling me a pedo for. sitting next to my sister in pony game. (currently protected bc insane ppl linked my site in global chat, so the assholes in global chat are ALSO spamming me)

anyway here we are! aren't our ponies cute? she's on the left, i'm on the right

[foefire-flame]

Man I really wish I didnt feel bad abt sharing Leo lore outside of tumblr. It is what it is

[cringeism]

trying to go through the fallout tag to see what people are saying about the show and to reblog my silly little gifs but all i can think of is that tweet thats like "yall would fuck a fence if it was white"

[nenoname]

while the only redeeming quality of love god really is the stan joke, it does emphasize how bad mabel is at matchmaking and also how much romance sucks actually

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

"If you ship these characters together at all you've fundamentally misunderstood the plot of the story"

Bro I get this if like. It's a case where people genuinely are misunderstanding the story

But like bro you know shipping is inherently neutral and doesn't necessarily tell you anything about how someone interprets a piece of media, right?

You know that people who ship something don't always want the thing to be canon, right?

You know that people shipping something doesn't change canon

Right?

[muchmossymess]

its a shame that fandom spaces are just as romance centered as the media we consume bc when i think of what would be a possibly insane dynamic that has strong comedic potential but also is not widely discussed, i cant articulate it shortly outside of "crackship" which implies insincerity (like no, i do think this is cool its just nowhere else especially the canon/s) or "rarepair" which implies a romantic/sexual nature thats just not there

[oceanwithouthermoon]

tired of being called boring cuz i hate toxic ships </33 im sorry i get triggered easily by stuff like that brah, the most toxic my ships r allowed to get before i get triggered is a lil possessiveness and a hint of unhealthy codependency 🤭 beyond that, i literally get sick to my stomach lmao..

do what u want but anyone whose never been abused before does NOT get the right to call ME boring for not liking abusive ships..

[curiouschaosstarlight]

Does anyone else get into a mood where their brain is stuck on a past experience and then they can't really process anything else

[sissytobitch10seconds]

Seeing people talk about Wednesday and how she doesn’t like touch when they clearly don’t know what it’s like to be touch-starved or touch-averse is kind of rough and makes me think that I’ve had enough internet for the day (at 11AM).

[v-arbellanaris]

i think the problem (?) is that the only kind of (fictional?) love that interests me is the kind of love that changes the world. the kind of love that derails the narrative, the kind of love that changes everything -- not necessarily by how special or unique the love is but by the very mundanity of it. the love that grows, not in spite of the barren lovelessness of Before, but out of it. i think that's why I'm always so invested in ships that are two people diametrically opposed to each other, or enemies-to-friends-to-lovers, or two people on separate sides of the morality issue coin, because i love it when love... not that it changes a person but it allows the person to Become. the space, the grace, to change. to love the monster, to love the unlovable and the intolerable, is to make it something other than a monster, than unlovable, than intolerable. i love it when being loved at your worst, ugliest, most horrible self is what makes you want to be someone worth loving. like is this ANYTHING to anyone or

[venting-town]

Crazy stupid how people preach about FICTIONAL characters doing things such as as rape/dub-con/etc, yet actively consume FICTIONAL media about murder/abuse/etc and enjoy it/say nothing about it/etc

Let’s face it: beings/non beings/etc are hypocrites. Literal everybody/somebody/nobody/anybody/body/etc is

You’re allowed to dislike something. You’re allowed to hate something.

Doesn’t make people who like FICTIONAL rape somehow worse ( or better or etc ) than people who like FICTIONAL murder

It’s still violence. Full stop.

Going on and on about one being worse than the other, yet excusing the other as it being “ not as bad “ is completely ignorant, hypocritical, and flat out stupid.

You aren’t better ( or worse ) than somebody who enjoys one violent FICTIONAL situation than somebody else who enjoys a different FICTIONAL situation.

And yes. Fiction CAN sometimes affect reality. Just like sometimes it CAN’T.

Just because somethings CAN’T doesn’t mean somebody WON’T

Just because somethings CAN doesn’t mean somebody WILL

And I’m saying this as a sex trafficking/torture/abuse/severely traumatized person/entity. Not that this means that somebody who haven’t experienced these things can’t talk, or that somebody who has had it worse can’t talk

Just stating perspective because I want to

[the-cat-at-the-theatre-door]

Definite ignorance of female characters or deliberate vilification of them in favor of male characters and m/m ships

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree

I will say, however, the treatment of female characters in this fandom specifically, at this point in time, is far *far* better than it was back in the day. Does that soften anything? No; there's still more work to do. But trust me when I say it used to be so much worse. And I'm sure you hear that all the time, but it *really* used to be *so much worse*.

[chocymilksailor]

i love being fictional but in real life actually. like my identity being inherently rooted in """fiction""" and yet boom here i am . a fictional creatura. an embodiment of having passed thru many existences that many would consider fictional. oooooooooooo the bleed between reality and fiction. anyway