#really depends on how depressing you interpret his post canon to be

[54625]

dyou reckon qFit is doing a small scale celebration somewhere in the wasteland right now, planting a rose and making a toast, to celebrate the anniversary? or do you think time passes him by too much these days and he hasn't even noticed what day it is at all

[stromuprisahat]

I love your takes on the grishaverse so I was wondering what you thoughts was on the theory/headcanon that Alina didn’t really lose her powers but unknowingly locked them as she did before the books’ beginning? Maybe there was a period where she couldn’t summon light bcs she was too exhausted and stressed out by the whole ‘final battle’ thing – banishing thee Fold, Mal’s ‘death’, Darkling’s death – so she assumed she had lost it. And then it was easier to unknowingly continue like that bcs it allowed her to remove herself from ruling and making any decisions and just have her simple co-depended life with Mal as she always wanted.

Personally, I don’t think that’s what happened in canon (certainly not what Bardugo meant) but I find it feasible as fanon interpretation, considering how depressed and deluded Alina appears post-RAR.

I'm more leaning into the explanation, that she intentionally, yet subconsciously rid herself of them (and maybe revived Malyen, when we're at it, since the second life bullshit is just that- bullshit that doesn't make sense, since no other amplifier's running around the same way. But then again- I'm very skeptical, when it comes to Malyen actually being one- he has no properties others do.).

Alina recognizes that as long as she's Grisha, she won't be able to be only with Malyen, and she already admitted she's trying to mould herself into whatever he seems to want from her.

Merzost doesn't seem to be random- it's driven by intention. Ilya "upgraded" mythical animals to have certain properties, Aleksander fucked up first, but then managed to find a way to actively protect his people, when in situation his powers weren't enough. Alina lost what made her special, but since her goal wasn't finished yet, other Sun Summoners sprang into existence and fucked up destruction of the Fold, because it's merzost-made, therefore logic tells us ordinary Small Science shouldn't be enough to vanquish it.

It's true the previous time Alina worked with merzost, her powers "disappeared" for a while, but the "magic" also isn't working from nothing. No matter what we're told, there is a cost, some input. It's not "pure creation". We can see it, when Sasha makes nichevo'ya- he's using his own essence, his life force or whatever want you to call it, to draw them into existence, so Alina would need ~something~ to distribute her powers among others, and the amplifiers are just that- they amplify, wider one's range, not give a new ability.

Besides- there's the question of what grandpa Ilya wanted. If he aimed at Grisha being accepted, instead of othered, why would he take away from one the give to more. It might look pragmatic, but the range is too limited and even if he created such "tools" over and over- he'd only make a new caste of "once-Grisha", instead of levelling the playing field.

One of my fellow fans also pointed out that if merzost is magic, perhaps Alina used it to become an ordinary otkazat'sya. I don't believe so. She might've made herself to appear as one, but after all those books spent reading how is being Grisha integral part of their being, something that makes them themselves... looking at post R&R Chapter 17 Alina isn't looking at slightly more traumatized Alina that can't summon the Light because it's not a part of her. It's looking at a husk of the girl, just like the ends of previous books, when she was suffering due to missing her powers on physical level.

And her lack of skill, when using merzost previous time would support it. She locked away her powers and her hair went white the first time. She got rid of her Light, but her body "remembers" it's missing something.

edit: Also- thank you for (positive) feedback, I'm not being rude, I'm just an social idiot with totally not ADHD, so I get focused on "the point", and forget the social stuff like greeting and replying to nice words, which ARE very motivating for me, but HERE'S THE STUFF I'm thinking about and my brain's coming up with coherent answers- LOOK!

[prism-forgone]

Asriel Dreemurr is a Prince of Doom ((bangs pots and pans))

[ALT: he seems like he'd be a prince of doom since princes usually act like their opposite aspect AND he acts like a life player methinks]

via @ghostzdrawz

in a reblog for this post: x

putting this as a separate post because it got so long that i couldn't simply put it below your reblog ^^'

yes that is exactly my classpect for asriel!!

( just as a sidenote, I find it very fun that, given my track record of assigning UTDR characters classpects, when a character is a Prince, they are also literally a prince in canon, like Ralsei, and now Asriel).

Asriel Dreemurr // Prince of Doom

You (very correctly!) stated Princes ghost their opposite aspect, and they do that since it's only prudent for a destruction class to destroy their aspect through leaning into the opposite one, too. The fact Princes destroy their aspect or destroy with their aspect supports this even more. They're destructive inwards and towards their environment, zeroing in on things having to do with their aspect and, depending on their mental state, destroying the enemies of its well-being or (usually, really) making it wither.

The ways Asriel supports Doom as an aspect are so numerous that it isn't even funny, so I'm just gonna list some things from my aspect notes and provide brief explanations:

affinity for unfortunate events, either in being the victim or invoking them (the incident he and Chara had with buttercups instead of cups of butter, Chara's death and subsequently Asriel's death during the scheme they both agreed on, creating entire timelines where he concocts his own genoroutes)

natural magnet for the worse parts of the narrative (being fated to live as a soulless being by pure chance, since his ashes were on the flowers purely by coincidence)

great supply of empathy and/or wisdom (the former is true for Asriel, who has a soul; the latter for Flowey, who is soulless and tested how things work many times - he even gives you a mock tutorial)

sufferers and martyrs (Asriel sacrificed himself to not kill anyone, even when attacked)

affinity for attunement with some kind of... otherness, alongside Life (like the exiles or horrorterrors in HS, or what I interpret as game mechanics in UT, and kinda just us - Flowey addresses Frisk, Chara and the player all at separate occasions)

Doom's symbolism of skulls, fire, explosions and bombs (he literally uses all these in his various attacks, most in the Omega Flowey form, that one with the added caveat of vaguely destroying Doom by using plants, Life's domain, too; but the skull appears in his Hyperdeath form attack)

literal meanings of death, sacrifice, entropy, acceptance (the first two are already plenty clear, entropy is just what Flowey was doing before we got here again and again, and what he attempts to do as Omega Flowey; and acceptance is what he finally exhibits at the end of True Pacifist)

abstract meanings of deterioration, nihilism, stagnation, static state of affairs, pessimism and limitations (most are already clear - the static nature of Flowey is him resetting again and again, to the point where Sans, along with whoever he was conducting research with, noticed the time anomalies and literally had depression induced because of the fact time is just Standing Still in a loop and nothing seems to matter anyhow so why bother trying <- destroying with Doom at its finest example; but also, the loop could be seen as something exactly opposite, since Flowey always tests something different).

Additionally, as the Extended Zodiac tells us - even though I try to not rely on it too much - the best a Doom hero can be is wise, kind and non-judgmental, while the worst they can be is being filled with bitterness, resentment and fatalism. The difference is between if they cling to the past or if they learn from it.

so, yeah. to sum up, my track record already shows i need very little to get me going about this so i'm very sorry ☝️however, counterpoint: it's really fun to do this hahah

[generic-sonic-fan]

dearest CEO and authority on omega, i seek your guidance for a thing i'm maybe plotting: do you think, in a future far enough ahead where eggman is no longer a thing, omega would take pity on an abandoned metal sonic and find some way to repair him at least enough so he's functional again? or would he be completely apathetic, seeing as metal is/was just another of eggman's robots?

First of all THANK YOU for the acknowledgement. That alone has made my day.

Second of all, as you no doubt predicted, this post got LONG and I put way too many disclaimers in the beginning so here's the TL;DR: current Omega would nuke Metal from orbit, but this is not about being current, so I came up with a few fun ideas for your consideration.

Third of all, a general guideline for discussing Sonic characters in the far future is that literally everything is fair game as long as there's some acknowledgement in the writing of how the character has changed and at least an allusion to what might have caused it. See my strange future Metadow drabble I did a while back for reference- people were willing to accept that Shadow could get really helpless and depressed and that Metal (Neo, in this case) could get actually somewhat emotionally stable given enough time and distance from the Egghead himself. Shadow was really only a small divergence from his established character, while Neo was much larger leap. It was an interpretation inspired by the recent trans girl Metal Sonic movement here on tumblr, which would be difficult to parse without the context of that current fanon.

Now that I've spent all that time on that disclaimer, allow me to throw it all away. Omega doesn't really have any established character interpretations, canon or fanon. It's pretty much just me, the IDW canon, the Archie continuity, and a bare few snippets from the games that you're cherry-picking from. But this means that you get to have FUN. This is your sandbox now! You get to invent justifications for any kind of behavior you want Omega to have!! This is literally my favorite part of being a fandom creator- we get to come up with interesting ideas and convince other people to share our brainrot!!!

Okay okay okay okay okay, with THAT whole nonsense out of the way. . . to get to the part that you actually asked for:

I think it would really depend on just how far in the future we're talking for Omega, and any other people he currently has in his life. Fresh, current, canon Omega would never even think about restoring Metal Sonic in any capacity. If anything, current canon Omega would stomp him even flatter. But you knew this already. You're not asking about current canon Omega- you're here to suggest some hypothetical future character development for him. Allow me to throw out a few personal ideas:

If someone important to Omega took pity on Metal Sonic first (almost exclusively Shadow or Rouge, though there could be others depending on circumstance) then he might not immediately smash Metal for parts. He might even help with repairs a little. You probably knew this already too, though. Omega's look to Shadow while holding Metal at the end of Sonic Heroes probably suggested that idea enough.

But to get to the true vision of your ask, of Omega repairing Metal on his own. . . if said pitying person was somehow incapacitated and left their work to restore Metal unfinished, then I could see Omega completing the repairs. He'd be in denial about it the whole time. He'd probably hate himself for it. But he's got a thing about completing goals, you know, and I think he'd be compelled to do so for someone he was close to even if he's not onboard with the mission. This circumstance would be perfect to set up an enemies-to-friends situation. Omega only tolerating Metal out of love for the original person that cared about restoring him, but that could change over time.

(I'm imagining a scene where a newly-repaired Metal learns about his abandonment and, defying Omega's expectations, gets downright pissed at Eggman for it- and this being enough for Omega to reconsider his views just a little bit.)

The other idea I'm imagining for this concept is a distant future, something like Silver's future, where, for whatever reason, Omega is alone.

(My personal character interpretation of Omega is that he hates being alone, even if he's not so fond of people. He's desperate for the attention of others, even if it's only to run screaming from him. It has to do with being isolated and ignored during his formative period; his deepest drive is to be acknowledged in any capacity.)

Perhaps he's been alone for a long time. Perhaps he's still grieving Shadow. Omega's had a lot of time to mull over stuff and get nostalgic about the "good ol' days". He stumbles across the broken corpse of Metal Sonic and is hit with an idea that he knows would've made his younger self want to blow up an entire city block. He doesn't waste vital parts on restoring Metal, but he keeps the blue corpse around and adds bits and pieces whenever it's convenient. Eventually, perhaps unexpectedly, the repair is finished. Metal could be reactivated. Omega hesitates. He eventually decides that in the worst case scenario, he could always blast the inferior robot to bits again should he prove annoying.

(Scene: Omega flips the switch. Metal Sonic awakens, expecting to see Eggman standing above him. . . only to find Omega. And Metal is distraught about this in a way he can't really understand about himself. Omega, surprisingly, sympathizes, recalling a long-lost desire to be the greatest Eggman robot only to be abandoned all the same.)

I could see this being the start of an almost mentor/mentee relationship between the two, much the same way that Dadow is usually spun, actually; a much older Omega begrudgingly taking care of a Metal Sonic who was deactivated during Sonic's time. The idea interests me- if I wrote it, one of the reoccurring thematic notes would be an exploration of the Omega of now versus the Omega of the past, from Metal's point of view. If you want to throw Silver in there, it could be a more literal comparison, too, which could be fun.

In conclusion: those are just two of the thousands of plausible ideas you could write for Omega and Metal. Honestly, interactions between these two fascinate me so much and I would adore seeing what you might come up for them, no matter which way you spin it.

[kakusu-shipping]

🥰💘💌 I am requesting Hatoful S/I lore 🥺

I HAVEN'T POSTED ABOUT MY HATOFUL S/I IN YEARS BUT I SWEAR!!!! I WILL REDESIGN HIM EVENTUALLY!!! HE WILL LIVE!!!!

Thankyou so much for asking I am think thonkin

🥰: How would someone who loved you portray you?

The Hatoful fandom is very good at staying in character (at least the parts that I'm in), so if they liked me they'd portray me well. Though they'd probably play up the scatterbrained part of my character a bit much, but that's more fun anyway.

💘: Why would people love your ship? Why would people dislike your ship?

It definitely depends on the Universe. Mainline the ship is more of just a crush and background set piece to the main story anyway, probably only really seen in the manga and mostly just as a gag piece. More of a silly "What if Kazuaki/Hitroi forgave himself and dated the librarian instead?" kind of ship, wholesome, cute, what-if crack ship. Hitori fans claim it undermines his character, and they'd be right.

In the Shrine AU/Mirror AU (please mirror 2024) it'd get a LOT of the same flack as Quail Boyfriends alone would get. They're toxic, Kazuaki's manipulative, Hitori's an abuser, Emile's an enabler, etc etc. And like, yeah kiiiind of but that's mashing the main story and AU together. I think shippers of Polyquails would focus more on the AU version where we're like, at most, a dysfunctional polycule with a communication problem. Like yeah Kazuaki is still a depressed emotionally manipulative mess but he IS working on it, and Hitori still is rather detached and closed off but he has Nageki to remind him to open up, and I still kinda infantalize Kazuaki and give into him way too quickly but liiiike... We're working on it.

We're three young adults doing our best, hurting eachother along the way but in the end, pretty happy. I think some people would like the realness of it, and some people can't handle the toxic yoai. It is what it is.

💌: How would your dynamic be portrayed? What might people focus on most? Any misconceptions?

Most people might notice I tend to favor Kazuaki and Kazuaki favors Hitori and play into that to make a sort of... Jealousy plotline? Or worse make it a love triangle instead a Polycule! Aaah yeah that'd be the worst interpretation...

People might assume my character dislikes Hitori because he does tend to be a little agro at him, but that's mostly again because he babies Kazuaki and is constantly ready to throw hands for him at the slightest inconvenience, and yes that includes at Hitori who is demanding he eats the vegetables on his plate. He does still have his moments with Hitori but they do bicker more than the average couple...

Oooooh my god could you imagine the fandom deeming Hitori and I Kazuaki's "Parents" instead of his boyfriends??? Augh! Incorrect!!! But SOMEONE would say it for sure...

I think it's kind of a complex dynamic over all and would have a few interpretations, especially sense it's mostly hinted at and not canon, and Hatoful media outside of the game is mostly Goofy Silly times.

[cosmicheartz]

More in-depth details abt Crystal and Clems falling out that happens in my hc/au along with a couple hcs

CW for mentions of suicide/self harm, parental abuse/neglect, bullying and toxic relationships

So in the post I made abt my hcs for older Crystal and Clem I mentioned they had a falling out during Clems last year at camp and I thought I’d talk about how it happened

Before I talk about that I wanna talk a bit about my hcs/speculations on both of their home lives bc it does come into play

CLEM: so its heavily implied on his campster that he and his dad don’t have a good relationship along with his dad being verbally abusive to him

We don’t have any info on his mom but I think she either A. Is out of the picture ( death, divorce etc ) B. Similarly abusive or C. Enables her husbands abuse towards his son ( either due to not caring or fear of also being abused )

I also feel like his dad would be physically abusive too ( to what severity I’m unsure )

When Clem gets older he’s either kicked out or he runs away. A scenario I have in mind that would lead to that is that he finally retaliates against his father ( most likely with psi powers and possibly leading to his fathers death or injury )

I think that Clem is also extremely envious of the campers who have happy ( or presumably happy ) home lives, it could be somewhat implied depending on how you interpret the tone on this post on Elton’s campster

So yea he has a really rough home life

He also most likely barely has any friends in his hometown too.

CRYSTAL: we don’t really have any canonical info on her home life so I’ll just talk about my personal interpretation

Compared to Clem her home life isn’t as “ bad “ but is still shitty. I feel like her parents could neglectful/distant and would dismiss their daughters clear mental health struggles ( ie oh it’s just a phase/I’ve had similar issues when I was her age but I pushed though it )

I’ve also seen some interpretations of them being very religious which I im not sure if I hc that but it’s interesting to think about.

Personally I think the major factor to her depression is that she’s severely bullied/ostracized at school ( especially if she’s in an area where there’s little to no psychics )

Another thing I’d like to note is that compared to Clem it seems that some of the other campers are genuinely worried about her mental state

I excluded Elka, Kitty and Nils bc they didn’t seem all that geniune/had ulterior motives ( I also omitted Chops replying to Bennys comment bullying her bc idk if that would fully count but I personally think he’s concerned for her well-being )

Clem doesn’t exactly have this on his campster

Sure he has positive testimonies but none of them seem to be concerned about his mental state compared to Crystals

^ This is the closest thing we have and even then Milka doesn’t seem to be all that concerned but moreso confused on why he was stealing the drain-o

I think that ends up affecting Clem and causes him to become jealous of Crystal but bottles up those feelings because he doesn’t want to bother her with his issues.

Anyways after the events of psychonauts 1/the campers having their brains stolen/Crystal and Clems “ project “ Crystal starts to be like “ oh shit maybe I should try and better my mental health “ it’s tough at first for her but she does genuinely wanna get better. She starts reaching out to the counselors ( both the canonical ones like Milla and some personal oc counselors since I hc that there’s more counselors than Sasha Milla and Coach ) along with the other campers ( Phoebe I think is one of the campers she starts to hang out with more often )

Clem however doesn’t hold the same viewpoints and throws himself in the cycle of faking positivity and partaking in self harm/planning his next “ project “. Eventually he stops the faking positivity altogether and just becomes incredibly withdrawn and kind of rude/snappy to the other campers

Crystal tries to help him but she can only do so much. It’s also pretty mentally/emotionally taxing for her bc Clem tries to drag her down with his cynicism so she starts to hang out with him less ( she still makes sure he’s not harming himself )

Clem takes notice of the fact Crystal is less keen on hanging out with him and it makes his jealously worse. It gets to the point where he can’t bottle it up anymore and he starts to become kinda cold to her? Also manipulative to an extent bc he notices that regarding their suicide pact she’s been “ flaking out “ along with making her promise to not tell anyone about what happened during that one summer.

It causes Crystal a lot of distress and her mental state starts to regress. Someone notices ( ie a camper or counselor ) and asks if she’s ok to which she tells them everything ( the suicide pact she and Clem had and how she’s concerned for his mental state ). Crystal also begs them not to tell Clem that she said that if they end up deciding to confront him about it.

When someone inevitably confronts Clem about what Crystal told them ( ie his suicidal tendencies and he and crystals attempting a suicide pact that one summer ) he immediately knows that Crystal blabbed.

This results in a huge argument between them with Crystal trying to reason with Clem and him finally spilling out his bottled up feelings towards her. He says some pretty nasty things to her in an attempt to make her feel worse and Crystal ends up saying some choice things too.

Afterwards Clem gives her the cold shoulder ( even when Crystal tries to apologize for what she said ) and basically becomes reclusive. He’s just waiting to get out of this stupid camp.

So Clem graduates from whispering rock without so much as a goodbye to Crystal

Crystal feels so awful about it which results in her going through a really bad mental health situation. Luckily she has a support system to help her get through it even if it’s only at camp.

Her home life is still pretty bad but she does end up getting a therapist ( though her parents aren’t exactly thrilled about it ) and she starts to hone her skills in levitation along with learning mental projection and psi punch. She also becomes pen pals with some of the former campers including Phoebe, Quentin and Lili ( she doesn’t fully reconnect with Raz until she starts her internship )

Crystal starts her internship at Pyschonauts when she’s around 15 and reconnects with her camp friends including Raz. She often hangs out with Lili so she and Raz end up becoming pretty close ( she ends up gaining a small crush on both him and Lili and maybe Phoebe later down the line bc I think they’re cute )

I haven’t decided on who her mentor would be yet though. Maybe Gisu or Morris bc they seemingly specialize in levitation? I’ll need to continue watching Holly play pyschonauts 2 to know for sure. I love @/doodle17s idea of her having psyball rollerblades/roller skates so I’m thinking of using that idea for her

Meanwhile Clem is in spiral which results in him hating humanity and starts to become a villain. At first it was pretty minor/petty crime things but as he got older it the crimes became more serious to the point he’s getting involved with the psychic mafia ( ran by Maloof )

Crystal does still attempt to check in with Clem though to usually no avail ( the only reason she knows he’s not dead is bc she’s in contact with Mikhail who has contact with Clem along with him occasionally responding though it’s very rare for him to and if he does it’s very a short/blunt conversation )

I’m still trying to hash out on the details on when they “ reunite “ ( deciding between when she becomes a junior psychonaut or when she ends up tagging along on a mission with Raz and co )

[s1utspeare]

*cracks knuckles* Slutspeare always has opinions. Welcome back to college, buckaroos, I'm responding to ur discussion post.

First off: what I think OP sorted correctly.

Hamlet. Obviously. Depressed thot if you've ever seen one. It's not just the character that has depressed thot energy, it's the entire play.

Midsummer Night's Dream. Yeah. Everyone in that show is a dumbass and a bitch. Multiple flavors of bitch, but they're bitches. And Shakespeare was that bitch when he decided to write the entire show in rhyming couplets. Legend for that but also a bitch.

Much Ado About Nothing. Again, both in main characters and energy, that play is truly the epitome of dumbass thots. Benedick and Beatrice are both sooooo slutty while vehemently denying that they want people to look at them

Now, for the rest. If we're just doing these plays (I think there are other Shakespeare plays that fit the categories better, like Titus Andronicus is obviously a top candidate for edgy bitch), then my proposal is

Macbeth: depressed bastard

Richard III: edgy bitch

Othello: edgy bastard

Julius Caesar: depressed bitch

King Lear: dumbass bastard

Romeo and Juliet: edgy thot

And here's why:

Macbeth: Macbeth is NOT an edgy bitch. That dude isn't the least bit edgy. Sure, he does some murder, but literally almost everyone in the play does murder. If you wanted it to be edgy bitch, the play would have to be called "Lady Macbeth" and it's not. Like she's the plot but we have to take into consideration that Macbeth has the most screentime and he's literally terrified the whole fucking time. He does NOT want to be there and he does NOT want to be doing what he is doing!!! and also consider that Shakespeare, in my opinion, also did not want to be there or want to be doing what he was doing! As the shortest and least complex tragedy in the Shakespeare canon, Billiam really just phoned it in. Sure, there are witches and usurption and all that jazz, but that's just standard stuff! That's not anything radical! It was a King James pandering and therefore should be labeled as Depressed Bastard bc that is who Macbeth is and that is how Shakespeare was when writing it. Sorry to the Macbeth fans but that show really isn't it.

Richard III: if you want an edgy bitch show, Richard III is it. There has never been a bigger bitch in Shakespeare and there never will be. Richard literally sits there and talks all woe is me all day but also he fucking schemes his ass off the entire time!!! Who else is out here killing their nephews??? not Macbeth, that's for sure!! If you were gonna give Macbeth points for killing royalty you'd better triple that for Richy cause he does it like three separate times! Don't you be sleeping on the bitch of the era!!! tbh Richard III needs more recognition for how fucking dramatic he is all the fucking time and he doesn't get that!!! also like. Billiam really said that he gets to be a drama queen! Second-most lines after Hamlet???? Don't talk to me about how Macbeth is an edgy bitch that man would fall at the feet of Richard III and beg to be topped

Othello: c'mon. like. Othello himself might be a dumbass, but everyone knows the real lead of Othello is Iago, and that man is sharp as paint. Do NOT disrespect the king of Big Brained Moves by labeling his play in the dumbass category!!! Do not even!! Iago is a bastard! He literally fucks up everyone's lives for no reason! He would be edgy bitch but Richard is way more gay and dramatic! That is not dumbass bastard energy and i will not stay silent about this when he played the long con and possibly died for it depending on your interpretation! That's edgy as hell! get out of here with this "dumbass" shit before I Iago u and steal ur girl using strawberry metaphors

Julius Caesar: you're really gonna put Julius Caesar as depressed bastard? Really? No one in that show is depressed. They fucking love themselves and they love murder and they love exploring each other's bodies. The only person who could even be slightly depressed is Cinna the Poet and even he's so excited about fucking people's shit up that he really doesn't even count!! And that show's fun as hell! If you want a depressed bastard based on vibes alone, it's definitely not Julius Caesar, which features so much stabbing and also so much gay political rivalry. I can't believe you would even consider one of the happiest Shakespeare tragedies depressed. It's like his version of Hamilton. Let sound the trumpets and unleash the dogs of war? Depressed bastards don't have bangers like that.

King Lear: you've got to be playing with me if you're not putting The Bastard Play in the bastard category. Be so ffr. Edmund literally just walks onstage and five people call him a bastard. The play is SO focused on the literal definition of the word that I can't even fathom putting it anywhere else. It's about daddy issues. It's about everyone being stupid. It's about being naked. The only place you can put it is in Dumbass Bastard and I literally will die on that hill with my eyes gouged out in a fucking hurricane and you can quote me on that

Romeo and Juliet: to be entirely honest, I don't think Romeo and Juliet is a good choice for any of these, but edgy thot is the best choice out of all of them. this show is SO full of edgy teen angst and hormones. everyone is horny as shit. Mercutio is there. Like c'mon. Even if you disregard the fact that every edgy thot drama for all time has used this play as a motif, this was 1593 Shakespeare, just pre-plague. Of course he was being an edgy thot, Marlowe was still alive. It is the only choice and the right choice and I said what I said

my personal take. discuss

[becomewings]

The Most Beautiful Moment in Life <I’M FINE>

     BTS Universe Story Highlights, pt. 1 / 4

» pt. 2

Introduction

BTS Universe Story, a mobile game published by Netmarble, was released on September 24, 2020. While the majority of the app is essentially a sandbox and engine for users to create their own interactive stories, it also includes official and canon BU content. The first eight segments were introduced between the release date and December 2020, gathered under the title The Most Beautiful Moment in Life <I’M FINE>.

“I’m Fine” is half of the I’m Fine/Save Me ambigram introduced in the Love Yourself era. Notably, all of the BU content available in the game so far falls between events of the webtoon Save Me (also called HYYH0 in its logo) and The Notes 1—chronologically, that is, while bearing in mind that time resets to the morning of 11 April Year 22 whenever SeokJin fails to avert a tragedy among his six friends. I want to assure anyone who is unable to play the game that you are not missing any new, major plot beats from the overall BU narrative. Instead, the stories provide more insight into the motivations and consequences of SeokJin’s decisions in the earlier time loops, as well as more depth to individual characters and their circumstances.

The goal of this guide is to summarize each of the eight stories and highlight noteworthy details, especially if they are not yet present in other BU media. Within each story (which I often refer to as an arc, due to their character-focused nature), episodes must be played successively, but the stories themselves can be played in any order. I will present them over a series of posts in the order they are listed under the <I’M FINE> heading. The Prologue and NamJoon’s arc are free to play; the rest are paid content. Please note that due to the app’s Terms & Conditions, I will not include in-game footage here. The images in this guide are sourced from the official trailers/videos and the live action MVs as appropriate.

Content warning: contains references to death, suicide, suicidal ideation, child abuse, domestic violence, blood, homicide, depression, trauma, PTSD

This guide contains major spoilers and includes references to other BU media

Do not repost, copy, or quote without permission

Game Mechanic

Before diving into the summaries, I would like to address the primary mechanic of the game: the user’s control of character choices at designated moments in the stories. It’s a primary marketing point that the player can influence the progression of the narrative, with a frequent in-app tip also declaring, “stories’ endings can vary depending on your choices.” The latter is not strictly true—and it cannot be true due to the structure of the game. Choices are presented within most (not all) episodes, but each episode is an isolated unit: episode 2 provides the same content regardless of what you choose in episode 1. Since the consequences of your decisions are not cumulative, each episode reaches the same ending, and each decision inevitably rejoins the “main” story path (effectively reducing the script size).

So what is the point of this mechanic? While the system is not nearly as complex as what major platform titles are capable of nowadays (I suspect due in large part to the story creation portion of the game), it does foster a sense of interaction with the narrative that isn’t present in static visual media like comics or film. The episodes with choices also have incentive for replay to discover the impact of changing a character’s dialogue or action. Sometimes the differences between the outcomes are inconsequential, but other times you unearth new details, interactions, or memories that are missing in the other path.

I say this partially in reaction to all of the comments and tweets I read for the game trailers and even Smeraldo Book twitter’s choose-your-own-adventure style teasers with The Notes 2 excerpts released last summer. Many users expressed excitement, through words or memes, about finally being able to give the boys the happy ending they deserved. I don’t fault anyone for wanting that happy ending—I wish for it, too. But no matter what the rather overzealous marketing has claimed, I don’t believe that the canon ending of BU is ever meant to be in the audience’s control. But I do feel that this mechanism fits the BU narrative. It echoes the “countless loops” SeokJin has experienced in an effort to save his friends, the choices he must make at every crossroad, and the butterfly effect those actions have on all of their lives. I think it is reasonable to interpret the simple branching paths in the game as alternatives SeokJin has explored across multiple loops in his struggle to find the “right” way forward. I’d love to hear if you have theories of your own!

Prologue

The prologue is a brief episode introducing SeokJin’s repeated struggle and failure to save his friends. He wakes up yet again in his bed on 11 April Year 22, the beginning of the time loop. After reflecting on the tragedies that keep befalling the others, SeokJin realizes that he has only tried to fix the problems he can see. He wonders: “Have I tried to understand the root of my friends’ misfortunes? How much do I really know about my friends? Maybe I was never brave enough to confront their real scars and the worlds they’ve been living in. But I need to do it. Because it may be the key to saving them all.”

How to Offer a Hand

In this story, SeokJin attempts to prevent NamJoon’s arrest after he gets in a fight with a rude customer at Naeri Gas Station, his place of work. The first episode opens on the night of 11 April Year 22 with NamJoon curling his fists, glaring as crumpled bills lie untouched on the pavement. (The money looks similar to the shot from the I Need U MV.) SeokJin reaches for his shoulder, but NamJoon shrugs him off and strides away to punch the customer who deliberately dropped the bills for him to pick up. The gas station owner runs over at the customer’s furious shouts and orders NamJoon to apologize. He refuses, and police officers soon arrive and charge him with assault. No one listens to SeokJin’s protests that the customer started it first. The man sneers as NamJoon enters the police car. “Do you even have money for a settlement? Hey, you’re done for.” NamJoon is sentenced to prison again, and SeokJin hears glass shattering before the loop resets.

Rising from his bed on the morning of 11 April, SeokJin reflects on his failed efforts so far. He has hit the customer’s car, called for NamJoon in the middle of the incident, and stopped the fight himself, the latter of which caused his friends to avoid him later. The fight has even escalated; the details are unspecified, but the audience is provided an ominous shot of SeokJin speaking to a police officer alone at the scene. NamJoon is not the kind of person who would normally respond to that kind of provocation with his fists. SeokJin realizes that he cannot merely stop the fight but must discover and fix the true cause of it.

With this in mind, SeokJin heads to Naeri Gas Station during the day and tries to engage NamJoon. This is their first time meeting since they both returned to Songju, although SeokJin has experienced it in many loops already. “It’s been a while,” he greets (as he does at the end of the Blood Sweat & Tears Japanese version MV). Before SeokJin can dig deeper in their conversation, NamJoon is called away by his boss. SeokJin enters the small employee break room which serves as NamJoon’s living space when he’s not at the container, hoping to find some clues about his friend’s life. SeokJin locates something bundled in newspapers. If the player chooses to open it, he sees a strange shard of glass inside that may belong to a car or motorcycle headlight. He continues on, finding the book Cosmos by Carl Sagan and a notebook. SeokJin hesitates over the invasion of privacy but decides to read it since he needs all the information that he can gather. The journal entries detail NamJoon’s daily life since returning to Songju: his work at the gas station isn’t too bad despite the occasional rude customer; he purchased a book and hopes to get more in the future; he picked up a second job at a wedding hall to help catch up on bills; his brother NamHyeon got in trouble again, leading to more expenses; and his dad’s health has worsened, with hospital bills after an emergency surgery rising to levels that the family cannot afford. SeokJin knew that NamJoon was the de facto head of household due to his father’s illness but was unaware that it was to this degree. He feels sorry for NamJoon yet is also impressed by his maturity, for NamJoon never writes how difficult his situation is.

NamJoon arrives and asks what SeokJin is doing in the room. If the player chooses to answer “reading” instead of “just sitting there,” SeokJin privately observes that the conversation flows more easily when they talk about books. NamJoon says he must leave and declines when SeokJin offers to wait for him there. SeokJin knocks over a pile of books along with money and receipts as he stands. He thinks it is unusual that NamJoon picks up the books before the money. The books seem to be more than a hobby to NamJoon, holding special meaning. Walking to his car, SeokJin wonders if it is pride or determination not to falter that keeps NamJoon from journaling his grievances. He realizes that money is a constant source of frustration and misery to NamJoon, and that’s why he can’t stomach being insulted over the customer’s dropped money. SeokJin’s new plan is to prevent NamJoon from picking up the money. He also calls Palgok County Hospital and offers to pay the patient bill for NamJoon’s father. Anticipating that NamJoon will be angry if he finds out, SeokJin says the payer is Songho Foundation.

That night, SeokJin returns to the gas station with the excuse that he forgot to fill up earlier. The luxury car arrives with a honk, and NamJoon hurries over to assist. He shakes with anger when the customer drops the money on the ground. “Why aren’t you picking it up? You don’t want it? What’s with that look? Pretty arrogant for a part-timer, aren’t you?” goads the customer. SeokJin intervenes. Whether the player chooses to have him advise NamJoon not to pick it up or to order the customer to pick it up himself, the end result is the same. SeokJin asks the customer, “Why are you harassing a pitiful part-timer?” The customer drives away, and something about NamJoon seems off. His face is expressionless, not mad or humiliated. “SeokJin, you…” He stops. “Never mind. Thank you for your help.” The words sound difficult for him to speak.

SeokJin believes that he has saved NamJoon, although this ending feels sloppy. He continues on in the loop to rescue JungKook and later YoonGi, but uneasiness plagues him. Though he meant to help NamJoon with his actions, SeokJin wonders if he hurt him instead. On 5 May Year 22, he returns to the gas station and follows NamJoon when he leaves work early. NamJoon enters a bookstore, and SeokJin sneaks in after him to watch from afar. He overhears employees talking about NamJoon, worrying that he might dirty the pages of the book he’s perusing. NamJoon is too absorbed in the book to notice one of them calling for his attention. SeokJin recalls a memory from their school days when he found NamJoon reading alone in their classroom hideout: he asked why NamJoon read so diligently, and his friend explained that he found it comforting to empty his thoughts of everything else while focused on the book. In the present, SeokJin wonders how he forgot how much books mean to NamJoon. He sacrifices some of his food and transportation budget to afford them, but they enable him “to endure the weight of the world he’s forced to bear on his shoulders.” After realizing this, SeokJin wants to apologize for carelessly sympathizing with the reality that NamJoon has weathered alone.

The next episode is from NamJoon’s perspective, revealing his excitement over being able to purchase a book for the first time in two months. He wants to buy two but can only afford one. The employee at the register sighs and asks why he leafed through a book he wasn’t going to buy. NamJoon apologizes, and she mutters, “So dirty.” He notices his reflection, clothes worn and smelling of gasoline, and realizes she’s talking about him, not the book. He tries to shake off these depressing thoughts, but he is still not accustomed to this treatment despite experiencing it regularly at work. As NamJoon begins to exit the store, the security alarm goes off. The employees demand to check his bag despite his insistence that he didn’t steal anything. Their certainty of his theft angers him. NamJoon allows them to look through his bag, and they are suspicious of the like-new book in it which he brought from home. One begins to call the police until SeokJin appears, vouching for NamJoon by saying he saw everything. The employees accept that the alarm malfunctioned and excuse their suspicions as a mistake.

Outside, SeokJin asks NamJoon if he is all right. NamJoon is thankful but wonders how SeokJin materialized right when he needed him. “How’d you find me here?” he asks aloud. SeokJin explains that he happened to notice him while walking through the neighborhood. NamJoon wonders if it’s because they said goodbye on a weird note last time. He thanks him and turns to leave. SeokJin calls after him. “I’m sorry. I wanted to apologize. I didn’t mean to upset you that day at the gas station. It was a mistake to have called you pitiful. If my rash actions hurt you, I’m really sorry.” NamJoon accepts his apology, believing it to be sincere, and says that things would have turned out a lot worse if SeokJin had not intervened. Thunder rolls overhead, and NamJoon uses the impending rain as his excuse to depart. He declines SeokJin’s offer of a ride and runs home, feeling his friend’s eyes on him.

Before he can settle down to read at home, NamJoon receives a call from his cheerful mother. She thanks him for paying off the entire hospital bill. NamJoon is perplexed and asks what’s on the receipt, since he didn’t pay it. His mother wants to leave it be, but he insists that they investigate so they don’t get in trouble or sued. She reads that the Songho Foundation is credited as the payer. NamJoon calls the hospital, introducing himself as the guardian for Kim YoungMin, but they can’t transfer him to the administrative department at this time. Disappointed, he looks up the foundation’s website, unable to recall why it sounds familiar. He wonders why a scholarship foundation in the city would get involved with him. Spotting photos of a recent launch ceremony on the site, he recognizes a few people: Songju High School’s principal, the familiar-looking face of the foundation’s chairman, and SeokJin. First, NamJoon forces a laugh, and then it’s difficult for him to breathe. He thinks that SeokJin really had pitied him at that moment. The only thing keeping NamJoon going is the idea of getting through life on his own strength. Why does he have to live like this?

The last episode opens on 5 May back in SeokJin’s perspective. He is confident now that he has saved NamJoon, although it occurs to him that a better alternative may have been to simply pick up the money himself instead of stepping forward. (This decision is enacted in a later loop and depicted in the Euphoria MV.) While reflecting on what comes next to save his other friends, he receives a text from NamJoon. “What’s your account number? I’ll pay you back for the hospital bills. I don’t need your help. I’ll handle my concerns on my own.” Heart sinking, SeokJin wonders how he found out. With a sense of foreboding, he tries calling NamJoon, but no one answers. SeokJin texts him back, pretending that he doesn’t understand, and tells NamJoon to call him. SeokJin’s second attempt connects while he’s gathering his car keys to visit the container. “That’s enough. Just send the account number over text,” NamJoon instructs. SeokJin coaxes him to talk for a moment, and NamJoon asks flatly, “Are you going to apologize again?” SeokJin attempts to salvage the situation, but his friend turns cold when he insists that NamJoon is misunderstanding and that he just wanted to help. “So, why? Why are you helping me?! Yeah, you’re always a good person. You’ve done nothing wrong and I’m the one misunderstanding.” SeokJin apologizes again. NamJoon refuses his request to meet in person. “No, I thought maybe there was a reason for everything you did… But I guess I misconstrued it. I’ll pay you back, so I’d prefer if you stopped contacting me.” Long after the call ends, SeokJin stands holding his phone, feeling that the glass is going to break at any moment. He wants to believe that it’s not over, but hope is slipping through his fingertips.

The episode finishes in NamJoon’s perspective. On 8 May and 9 May, he accepts part-time delivery work and reflects on his three jobs. Whenever he thinks he’s at his breaking point, he focuses on his new goal of returning SeokJin’s money. On 10 May, NamJoon wakes up to his buzzing phone and is called in to work. On a scooter, he passes by a bus stop and notices graffiti. (This is the same bus stop, with matching graffiti, that appears in the Highlight Reel.) Mesmerized, he wonders if it’s TaeHyung’s. As soon as NamJoon looks up, the scooter’s brake fails, and he crashes. The shattered glass on the cold pavement reminds him of the headlight shard and the kid who looked like TaeHyung. (So the piece of glass SeokJin saw in April was really a memento NamJoon retrieved from the scene of the crash in the mountain town, where the delivery boy whom he privately called TaeHyung died. This event is described in NamJoon’s 17 December Year 21 entry in The Notes 1.) NamJoon’s vision grows blurry, and the distant sound of an ambulance doesn’t come any closer.

The arc concludes there, but it obviously marks another reset for SeokJin. It is interesting to note that in this failed loop, NamJoon suffers the same fate that he narrowly avoided in the snowy mountain town before returning to Songju.

Please stay tuned for the next Highlights post featuring JungKook and YoonGi!

[inosukeslefttoe]

SO i just finished wonder egg priority and i think that with confidence i can say it has been one of my favorite animes like... ever ?? and not even from hyperfixation or obsession over it just... its so fucking real yet so simple in a way that i havent rlly seen shown in any other shows you feel ??

but first i wanna talk about how sexy the art and animation is real quick... HOMIE ITS SO GOOD LIKE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT JUST... serotonin... the characters are all so unique and iconic and fun but not over the top in their designs yknow ??? they seem like regular every day girls but they stand out and theyre all sO CUTE !!!! also i love how the style is like this soft bubbly slice of life lookin stuff with bright happy colors and the most beautiful scenes you could find but they also have the SICKEST fight scenes complete with whimsical animal helpers and terrifying villains and crazy weapons unique to each character. and the animation. god DAMN shawty i am obsessed with everything in this show. i might make a post solely about the art later lol bc i wanna get into the other stuff.

so the themes in the show right ?? it starts just as this cute lil magical girl kinda deal but within the first episode we see that like.. oh damn... thats kinda heavy... tbh i was a little shocked and thought about stopping bc yknow bad mental health BUT i was so intrigued that i had to keep going and i am SO GLAD that i did. because this show just so beautifully discusses all these heavy topics in such an eloquent and artistically expressive way. and also like, , the juxtaposition of the charming childlike vibe with bright colors and 14 yr old girl protagonists against the dark themes of suicide and so much else,, i think is just perfect. bc a lot of heavy animes are more of the seinen genre and have some middle aged dude as a protag or make the entire color palette dim or offer little relief to the pain of these heavy themes right ?? but NO not wonder egg bitches B) because these problems arent just things that ppl face later in life or just problems that need to be talked about among adults or the edgy seinen watching squad,, these are REAL problems that face people of every age, gender etc and i think its awesome that wonder egg addresses that. some may cringe at the thought of their high schooler watching animes that discuss sexual harassment, suicide, abuse, self harm, eating disorders etc,, but in reality it is the most comforting thing i have ever come across and is basically jsut free anime therapy. because not only does wonder egg present these themes to the viewers as something real that happens to all kinds of people (making said people feel heard in a way that maybe they hadnt before), but it also makes sure to vanquish all of these forms of trauma. and the way the trauma is vanquished isnt always beautiful and it isnt always just magically gone with a poof. the struggles of overcoming or living with that sort of thing are shown in such a real and relatable way that addresses every hardship trauma survivors have to go through. and i just. god i cry bro. 

oh m y GOD and the lgbtq+ rep in this show ?? like shawty... as soon as i saw episode one i was picking up on some gay/lesbian themes but then again im sapphic and project that a lot so i tend to see that sort of stuff like... everywhere... but NE WAYS... episode ten made me FUKCING CRY BRO LIke i cant believe there was a whole trans character with a whole trans pride hoodie like LKGHKDGH my heart is just so.. so fucking full thinking about him. bc like yeah i know there are trans characters in anime but i feel like theyre always very ambiguous about actually being trans or not or erased or portrayed as a harmful stereotype or theyre constantly misgendered and still refered to as their assigned gender at birth and i hate it. HOWEVEr... Kaoru.. *chefs kiss* it was so amazing to see a character straight up say “yeah im trans” in such a casual yet powerful way bc i personally have never seen that before. and i love love loved how he went into his backstory and talked to momoe about gender bc i think thats what she rlly needed and that it helped her find herself and it makes me so happy oh my god,, and the way they talked about it never seemed forced or like it was the focal point of his existence yknow ?? like yeah he existed to help momoe overcome some of her trauma but he also just existed to be HIM yknow ?? also... personally, i headcanon momoe as a trans girl even though i dont remember it being explicitly stated plus the school scenes of her and stuff would seem like they suggest otherwise ??but,,, SHAWTY THE AMOUNT OF SUBTEXT and her complicated relationship w gender is... something i feel like a cis girl would not go through so harshly yknow ?? with all of the questioning and feeling detached from femininity or feeling like ppl dont see her as an actual girl and only like her as a guy or for her masculine traits,,, but dont take my word on this bc i myself am a cis girl but that was just my take on it as someone in the lgbtq+ community trying to educate myself on the transgender community :) either way,, wonder eggs portrayal of momoe and kaoru and the way that momoe becomes so passionate about expressing herself the way she wants to as a girl is just... good lord im gonna cry its so perfect,,,.so ... i just love this show way too much. i also am honestly super lost about the relationship btwn acca and ura-acca ?? bc i was gonna mention ura-acca as a canonically gay guy bc when i was watching i interpreted ep 11 as him being in love with acca and being jealous of Azusa (bc i mean,, they lived together (i swear to god there was only one bed in that apartment) and had a daughter together and def loved each other and also when Frill said they were husbands and then when ura-acca said he wasnt attracted to azusa but he was def jealous of their relationship ??) but then i saw somewhere that theyre brothers ?? which would make sense ig since they look kinda similar and accas daughter called ura-acca “uncle”.. but at the same time its ANIME SO THEY ALL LOOK SIMILAR and referring to gay couples as siblings is an EXTREMELY common euphemism soooo... IM JUST LOST HERE... but yeah i tried doing research and found different things so i cant say anything for sure >:( however,,, if they are canonically a lil fruity for each other... when frill refered to acca as ura-accas husband i imploded dude you never hear that sort of wording in anime.. but if theyre related i am so sorry. 

god this is so much longer than i planned it to be oops but i also love the theme about like.. relying on friends to help carry your weight but at the same time not becoming completely dependent on those friends and using their support to learn how to love yourself and rely on yourself yknow ?? bc that is exactly what healthy friendships look like. bc i think ai sort of had a codependency thing goin on with koito maybe ?? but now she has a whole squad of funky friends that are so so different but all struggle with different kinds of trauma and although they fight over it, they always get through it with each other together. and they push each other no matter what to be the best versions of themselves and they teach other that getting hurt is okay because theyre always gonna be there to pick up the pieces no matter what happens. they can give each other space when they need and adapt to meet each others needs but theyre always able to balance it out with their own needs and thats such a beautiful thing in friendships especially at their age like damn i wish i had that maturity when i was 14 but no all i had was depression. another thing is that through these friendships you get to see all the different sides of each girl; you get to see them being strong or a shining light to their friends when theyre hurting but you also get to see them being hurt and weak and allowing themselves to be on the receiving end of the comfort. their friendships allows them to have weaknesses but it also allows them to highlight their strengths and thrive off of each others. I LOVE FRIENDSHIP DUDE

next i wanna briefly mention some of the themes connected to suicide that ive noticed. a big one is the survivors guilt that ai feels once koito is dead. several times she screams that she wishes she couldve gone with koito and she dreams of a “perfect world” where they committed a double suicide. one of the main reasons for her troubles is that she blames herself for koitos death and feels like it should be her thats dead... but at the same time she feels like too much of a coward to do anything now that koito is gone. she just has all these complex and contradicting feelings that wear away at her in ways that ppl that havent gone through the suicide of a loved one could never imagine. a lot of the times when things like this are portrayed in media i feel like its more in a way thats meant to guilt trip those that have taken their own lives and paint suicide as this selfish sin thats unforgivable but... not only does wonder egg reject that idea and instead portray it as a heartbreaking tragedy with,,, so so many terrible reasons, but it focuses on the feelings of ai separate from koito without blaming her in any way. not once did i feel like the show antagonized koito or that ai blamed koito for doing any of this, but they simply mourned her loss and touched on ais reaction towards the event but separate from koito herself if that makes sense. and i think that discussing survivors guilt without painting koito as the bad guy is something so beautifully done in wonder egg that can really resonate with those that have lost a loved one to suicide and have struggled with these same things.

okay i think this is the last thing ill mention,,, but HOMIE THE PARALLEL UNIVERSE BIT AT THE END. I AM. OBSESSED. i am such a whore for anything about the multiverse okay n e ways...,, not only did this make a super epic trippy ending of season one and add a little bit more magical girl whimsy to the show,, but it had such a powerful message. from the perspective of og ai,, finding out that you killed yourself in another world is... i mean its definitely not a surprise but at the same time it rlly makes you think how close og ai herself couldve been to that point and what decisions led her out of that dark place in her life. if i were in her shoes i would be terrified and id cry bc the thought of going back to such a dark place and actually going through with something like that is my worst fear and probably something that ai fears too. but at the same time,,, think from the perspective of ai two !!! like yeah its true that theres this awful terrible version of ai that dies but theres also a whole version of ai that is a superhero magical girl fighting off monsters to save countless ppls lives !! and she has a badass lizard and a gang of awesome friends !!! at first i was worried that ai two would be jealous of og ai and compare herself to her and feel inferior but like.. THEYRE LITERALLY THE SAME PERSON AND CAPABLE OF THE SAME THINGS !!! and ai two realized that !! just within the span of one episode, she went from the version of ai who took her life,, to the version of ai jumping in front of a friend to take a bullet for them and save their life. and that just inspired THE SHIT OUT OF ME. i think that ai was sent another version of herself to sort of beat her own worst enemy yknow ?? those doubts and fears that shes no good or that shes that same bystander from episode one and that she hasnt changed at all. but getting to interact with her parallel self and see her grow was just what she needed to realize that while yeah sometimes the worst thing can happen and things can be terrible but on the other hand sometimes the most wonderful thing imaginable can happen because she has the power to do either. 

so im gonna go ahead and stop rambling bc i got all my thoughts out that i wanted to for this post :D but yeah lol i might make another if i feel like it sometime. long story short: this show is perfect and it is going on my favorite of all times.

[coldmorte]

So i have some unpopular opinions; i feel like Dutch doesnt sleep around as much as people would like to think. He probably likes the fact that people think that of him, even if its not his style. Also...i dont think Dutch and Molly have any chemistry.

Howdy! (ASK 1 OF 2)

I apologize it took me some time to actually reply to this, especially because it is such a great ask! I definitely agree with both points made here, but I was debating how I wanted to write a response (and how far to take it).

Anyway, I'm open to hearing unpopular opinions! I know I have plenty of my own, so I'm not really one to judge others (as long as there is mutual respect) ☺️

My response is fairly long, and it deals with some sensitive topics. I decided to add a cut to this first ask, just to be safe! 💜💜💜

(Warning: SPOILERS below)

In regard to Dutch sleeping around, there are a few reasons why I don’t think he does it as much as it is often implied/assumed (I’m primarily limiting this to the timeframe of RDR2, Ch. 1-6).

First of all, Molly explicitly says Dutch doesn’t show her a lot of physical attention, even though he is her SO. If he’s not sleeping with her much, I doubt that he is going around with any other women at this time. He seldom leaves camp, outside of doing missions, so it is unlikely that he would meet up with anybody not in the gang. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me, as it would put him in a vulnerable position.

Dutch complains multiple times - including to Molly - that he is under stress and concerned about the Pinkertons closing in on them. Why would he go around outside the camp sleeping with random women? It would put him at the risk of being seen or reported on, and I believe he is smarter than to take on the unnecessary danger. Generally, he doesn’t spend much time in civilized areas, unless he needs to.

Not to mention, stress can be a real inhibitor of sex drive. For the entirety of the game, Dutch exhibits various degrees of anxiety and depression. I believe the gang and his personal safety were of much more concern to him, thus diminishing his interest in sex.

Speaking of the gang, I don’t personally see Dutch as sleeping around with the women in it that much. He did have a relationship with Susan in the past. Whether anything was still going on between them or not is uncertain, but if there was something, it probably was not serious or very frequent. In RDR1, he also suggests that he slept with Abigail, but if this happened, I doubt it would have occurred during the events of RDR2. They hardly ever interacted, and when Abigail did talk about Dutch, it was almost always in a negative manner. Dutch also showed some interest in Mary-Beth. However, I don’t think it went beyond flirting. She didn’t show much interest in him, and I think word would have gotten around if he tried to force anything, especially to Arthur (I am not going to discuss the events of RDR1 in any more detail here because that is a whole different conversation). But other than them, who else in the gang? There were not enough interactions with other women to suggest there was anything between them and Dutch.

Also, sex was considerably more risky in 1899 than it is today, and the means of contraception were not as dependable. For instance, The Pill didn’t go onto the market for another 60 years, and it was more difficult to get ahold of other birth control methods. This was partly because there were not as many technological advancements in this field and because there were a few laws that prevented reliable access to contraceptives (ex: The Comstock Laws). Condoms were arguably one of the easier birth control methods to find, but they still were not as widely available then as they are today (the quality was arguably not as good either). As I understand it, some searching was generally required to get ahold of condoms (usually in more civilized areas, which Dutch tried to avoid).

Dutch is a very contradictory character. My point in bringing up birth control is because although on some level I think Dutch probably would have liked to have actual children, I do not think he was serious enough about it to take any risks that might have led to an unwanted pregnancy during the timeframe of RDR2. As I mentioned, he was under a lot of stress with the gang. A biological child on top of that most likely would have overwhelmed him, and it would have required a long-term commitment to not only the child, but to the mother as well. I believe Dutch was smart enough to recognize this danger, and since birth control methods were not as widely available or reliable, he would not have wanted to sleep around too much (unwanted pregnancies were relatively common during this era).

I’ve written in the past that I believe Dutch had a certain degree of self-consciousness underneath his pride, so I do agree that he probably would have liked people finding him attractive or seductive. These traits emanate a sense of power and confidence, which would have provided a more favorable presentation of himself to others. These perceptions certainly would have helped to conceal his own self-doubts and insecurities, so he would have welcomed them, rather than try to refute them.

Now, in regard to the chemistry between Dutch and Molly, I agree. I think it was a pretty bad relationship all around. I don’t see its flaws as being entirely one-sided.

I will get into this a little more on the next ask, but I will discuss a few things here first.

Starting with Dutch, I will admit that he could have treated Molly a lot better. Even if he wasn’t happy with her or the status of their relationship, he should have seriously talked to her more. She deserved that, at the very minimum. There were a few instances where she tried to get his attention, and he just brushed her off. Again, like I said, even if he wasn’t very keen on the relationship anymore, he should have at least been honest about that. Then, as I already discussed, he had some mildly flirtatious conversations with Mary-Beth. I certainly do not think this helped matters. It was rude the way he insulted Molly for bringing up his interactions with Mary-Beth and how he pretended he had no idea what Molly was talking about.

Onto Molly, I don’t think she was perfect either. I know Dutch didn’t talk with her nearly as much as he should have, but she didn’t seem to show a whole lot of support for him in return. Dutch expressed that he was feeling stressed and not up to much physical activity, to which she got quite upset. She seemed to turn some arguments towards herself and her needs, with little regard for Dutch’s wellbeing. I do think she was selfish for demanding him to give her something he did not want to give/could not provide. Also, she refused to help the gang find leads or assist with chores, even when told to do so by others (ex: Dutch and Arthur). She tended to act above everybody else, claiming she wasn’t a servant to the needs of the gang as a whole. Though I can respect her sense of independence in that regard, it did show a sense of entitlement. Even Dutch donated to the gang funds, and as the leader, he was the one responsible for overseeing the vast majority of missions they engaged in. Molly was the only person who really did not contribute much. (Side note: Even UNCLE - the laziest bastard in the West - helped with leads and contributions!!)

I will get into this more in the following ask, but although I know she loved Dutch to an extent, I think part of her fascination with him was rooted in infatuation. Little is known about her background, but it is canon that she came from a wealthy and influential family in Ireland. I think part of the reason why she liked Dutch so much was because of the powerful position he held. She frequently lashed out at people who she perceived as challenging the reality of her “love” for him, such as Abigail and Karen. In one instance, Molly even went so far as to slap Karen across the face because she thought Karen was talking negatively about her. There was no evidence to prove or disprove Molly’s beliefs, but it did show that she was pretty sensitive about criticism (whether it was perceived or real) in regard to her relationship with Dutch.

Now, Dutch was wrong to use Molly’s fascination with him and his role in the gang to seduce her. But like I said, both of them had their issues. It was just a bad situation from both sides, and I do not think it should have happened in the first place. I don’t necessarily blame one more than the other. To be honest, I think they each deserved someone who fit them better.

And if I am being even MORE honest, I think Dutch should have stayed with Susan. She loved him, and he made a big mistake in ever giving her up. I believe the events of RDR2 would have turned out very differently, had he kept her closer.

(Ending note: Outside of serious posts - like this one - I know I make quite a few jokes about Dutch on my blog in regard to sexuality, but I do not mean for much of what I say in that regard to be taken *too* seriously. I don’t particularly want to discuss my personal life in the text of this post, but I will say that even if Dutch was a person I knew in real life, I’m not sure I would seriously want anything to happen between us. However, that is another matter entirely that has nothing whatsoever to do with him. I absolutely LOVE his character to death, and my blog will remain dedicated to his role in the RDR story for as long as I am around! That is all that should matter!!!)

Also, it is perfectly fine and normal to separate fiction from reality! It is okay to alter interpretations of Dutch (and/or Molly) for the sake of artistic expression, as long as the reasons can be justified. Furthermore, it is fine to disagree with me!!

I just hope this response gave you a thing or two to consider. Thank you again for sending your message in!! 💜💜💜

[writing-for-life]

@fractalspaces

Far too long for a comment, and I’m too lazy to split it all up 😂

First of all: I would totally read that heist fic, especially with those characters 😂

Some spoilers ahead and CW for talking about depression and suicide.

I agree with what you wrote about Orpheus’ happy ending. Others have also brushed upon this: For Orpheus, there is no life without Eurydice, no matter his bodily state. So I feel whatever we do/write, that would need to be part of the solution for him.

The oblivion thing though, that’s such a tricky one if we look at canon. I think it depends on how we define oblivion:

Oblivion as in “forgetting your past life”: Absolutely. And in canon, I really think Morpheus not only wants but actually *needs* that. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t subscribe to the theory that he lives on as a dream entity in Hob’s dream for all eternity with his memories intact. I wrote about this briefly before in a meta, but I actually have one in the works where I expand on that. It would be totally OOC for him, it would also be cruel and makes absolutely no sense. The fact that Neil says “it’s never just a dream” and occasionally likes posts that use that line to support their theories doesn’t change anything about it (he told fans several times that his likes are never endorsements of fan theories and head canons, but rather appreciation of the effort someone put into a post, or often even a slip of the finger 😂). That’d lead too far here though. “It’s never just a dream” can be read in so many ways in this context, and if people took their time to reread, they would probably pick up on a lot of subtleties and think so, too. There are really so many things that you can’t unsee once you notice them (some are easier to spot, others not so much, but once you see them, you will go: “How did I never notice this before?” Certainly took me long enough in certain cases, it’s like the gift that keeps on giving 😂). But I also totally understand why especially show fans are enamoured with that idea, and it holds enough ambiguity if you *want* to see it that way.

Oblivion as in “no afterlife”: I’d say no. Death herself says oblivion is not an option (e.g. in Façade), so I feel it’s all rather convoluted and possibly not as straightforward as we might think. Morpheus turns into a star at the end, we definitely know that (because it’s obvious, and it’s also in every frame of The Wake from that moment onward). And that leaves a lot of space for all sorts of interpretations and connections, especially if you tie it in with certain panels in Brief Lives.

As for what you wrote about support and feeling loved etc: Yes to all of that. I’m a therapist, and while I want to believe it’s possible (and my own fic leans very heavily into this, plus learning to forgive oneself and character development from that angle), I also know that no matter how much love and support we extend, it won’t always save those with severe depression. And no one is to blame—neither those who see no way out nor those who think they didn’t do enough to prevent it.

And that’s the truly tragic thing about it, because art mirrors life…

Give me your head-canons:

How do you solve the Orpheus problem?

As in: It’s the elephant in the room in so many canon-compliant or -adjacent fanfics I read (we obviously don’t need to talk about coffee shop AUs) and Orpheus either keeps on existing somehow (and no one cares, because Dream and whatever love interest just literally fuck off into the sunset and pretend everything’s okay), or he gets killed by someone else who quite strictly wouldn’t be able to kill him.

Is it a solvable problem?

If he keeps existing as a severed head, it’s honestly a bit shite for him, isn’t it? So these are the fics where we keep on visiting severed heads. I don’t know, I find that… dissatisfying.

If Dream kills him, it’s over. Unless he stays in the Dreaming and lets the storm blow over. Will it though? I mean yeah, he could sit there for all eternity (groan), not take Death’s hand and make sure he doesn’t conveniently leave so the Kindly Ones get in and start ripping the Dreaming to shreds. But that doesn’t really sound like a solution to me either, because the problem won’t go away. Also: Probably no meetings in the waking world with you-know-who ever again. Plot hole, people, it doesn’t work that way.

If someone else kills him: Who? Please don’t say Hob, I know he’s immortal (so was Murphy), but the very idea is that no one can kill the poor kid because he made a deal with Death, which she apparently can’t revoke. Is there an entity who could? Which links in to the question: Why could Dream (somewhat rhetorical question)? Could any similar entity do it if they also had to grant him a boon? But don’t forget: Can’t be one of the Endless, they’re all family. Unless one sacrifices themselves. I mean, I think I’ve seen Death doing that in a fic somewhere, I think the assumption was she’s okay with dying a mortal death, but I also felt that’s not quite right, since it’s just not the same (also: in her mortal form, she wouldn’t have those powers). Does it have to be The Presence/Glory? Why would they care?

Yeah, he could use the Saeculum I guess, but really? If the problem never existed, it would also feel… wrong? Plus, we all know that changing the past always has implications on the future that go far beyond the thing we want to change. Plus plus: I honestly think it would be a bit OOC for him because he’d feel there’s not enough at stake (like a whole universe imploding) to ever justify that. So no, that’s, IMHO, making him into someone he really isn’t (can of course be an option in fanfic I guess).

Same goes for the Dream of a Thousand Cats Spiel. Someone who is so wrapped up in his duty just wouldn’t do that for his own personal gain, and not even for one loved one (he also wouldn’t be allowed to kick it off by telling anyone, and what 1,000 dreamers would dream that? I mean, WE all would, but that’s a bit… meta?😂). I said what I said.

Or is it some sort of magic? Like, he’s still a severed head, but we make him *think* he isn’t, give him back a body (in his own mind, or maybe even for real)? But that’s also… not great and feels like gaslighting him. Really not keen.

So what say you?

Is this just a case of: Unsolvable problem, hence we might as well pretend we solve it in some ridiculous way or pretend it doesn’t exist in the first place?

[unweavinglies]

Gonta Gokuhara Character Analysis: When a Genius is Treated like a Child

So a quick disclaimer: Yes, I am very aware that this is most likely not canon, or at least not what the writers intended on being canon, nor am I saying that this is 100% canon and should be considered as such. This is just a fan theory/analysis I came up with for my own enjoyment and wanted to share with others, as I like coming up with theories/analysis posts and reworking canons to make enhanced stories and character development in my perspective. I firmly believe that the idea of making theories isn’t supposed to be a shouting contest to see which opinion is the most loud and correct, but should be something to share with others and find acceptance and understanding in different interpretations, even if you don’t agree with them.

Well, this has been a long time coming, hasn’t it?

I’ve been talking about wanting to do this analysis for months now to various friends and acquaintances, but I’ve only had the motivation to do as such recently, after writing a short story that dived deeper into Gonta’s mindset over the Mercy Killing Plot he and Kokichi attempted to carry out. Regardless of that, however, Gonta has been one of my favorite characters for quite some time, and I really feel like his character arc and the unfortunate tragedy behind the unintentional mistreatment of Gonta via his classmates.

So without further adieu, let’s talk about that--about what happens when a genius is treated like a child.

Warning, this does discuss some rather unfortunate topics, such as ableism, depression/self loathing, and the concept of mercy killing. Viewer discretion is advised.

The first thing we need to elaborate on, is why I am calling Gonta a “genius.” Gonta has shown difficulty in understanding simple concepts, and struggles to follow along complicated plots, such as we see in his Salmon Mode Event where he mentions that he cannot follow the plot of high fantasy stories because they tend to be so complicated. He even refers to himself as not very smart, tragically enough.

However, not is all what it seems for Gonta, as his intellect is a matter of fact, and not just an analysis, and the game’s introduction of him opens up this fact to the player in a round about way that may or may not be so subtle.

Gonta admits here that he was a wild child, lost in the forest for ten years. While the logistics are... questionable, this is a work of fiction, thus I will suspend some disbelief. Gonta being lost in the forest for ten years means that he was probably about 5-8 years old when he was lost, depending on how old he is in the game.

Touching upon this briefly, studies of wild children, specifically referencing this case here, have an extremely hard time readjusting and learning to human language, customs, and interaction. The younger a child is upon becoming a wild child and the longer they are in the wild, the less likely they will be able to learn language and certain social behaviors and skills. While it is not impossible, the likelihood of Gonta being 15 or 16 in the game is very low, and even impossible once I elaborate, and we can safely assume that with the context of him being a wild child, he is probably at least 17 years old. So a safe assumption is that Gonta was lost in the forest when he was about 7.

(Note: I am very well aware of Gonta’s potential forest family not being wolves, and instead the reptites, but these creatures Gonta speaks of very well be his own imagination spiking from the isolation from humanity, or be something else entirely. Gonta makes several references to video game characters as well, claiming he met them in real life, so I consider it highly unlikely that “reptites” are an exception to this. Either way, it won’t matter if you believe otherwise, just that it may change certain aspects of what I’m about to say in regarding education and the sort.)

What’s the point of this elaboration? Well, quite a lot, once you remember that Gonta is the Ultimate Entomologist.

Firstly, there is the fact that Gonta is a high school student at all. Gonta was lost at a very young age--it would be impossible for him to be, since not only had he spent 10 years int he wild, but he also had to rejoin human society, relearn human language and customs, and then be put back into formal education. If Gonta is still a teenager and not over 21, then Gonta would have to cram in a decade’s worth of formal education into a few months, or a few years, at most.

This makes Gonta a literal prodigy.

Had Gonta not been isolated from humanity for a decade, Gonta would have been a child prodigy, a literal genius with an intellect that couldn’t be so easily matched. Having the capacity to learn advance mathematics, language (although in the English version, he is struggling with speak (speaking with the infamous “caveman” speech pattern) scientific methods, all of it within such a short amount of time proves that Gonta is, without a shred of doubt, a genius.

Even if you take the aforementioned reptites into account, it only makes Gonta’s accomplishments slightly less impressive, depending on your interpretation of what the reptites actually are. This is because Gonta still had to engage with formal education, and even in the best case scenario where the reptites were fully advanced beings with a civilization and education (which I quite doubt, if they were, then why not give Gonta back to the human race when he was still a child? Why not guide him back to his kind? Why keep him? Even if they were afraid of humanity, it would be far, far worse for the humans to find them while looking for their lost son... I digress.) Gonta still had to learn Japan’s education. Their history, their language, their social customs--and then, Gonta had to learn how to be an entomologist.

You need to go to college to be an entomologist.

According to this website here, the basic, bare bones higher education one needs in order to apply for certain positions related to entomology is a bachelor’s degree, with most positions and places requiring a doctoral decree. There are, of course, youth clubs for students under eighteen, but from my understanding, in order to be considered an entomologist, you need a college degree.

Gonta is a high school student.

For him to be considered an Ultimate Entomologist, Gonta would have to have taken college courses and gotten some kind of degree in order to be recognized as such. Thus, Gonta is still learning a higher education within a short period of time that is incredible for any human being his age, whether it be as drastic as him having no sort of education while living in the wild, or living with the reptites.

Either way, it is safe to say that Gonta is very intelligent, whether or not he is potentially a prodigy for it.

However, this has very unfortunate implications of the way Gonta is treated by his peers in the game.

Not only does Tsumugi here reenforce that idea in everyone else’s mind...

She blatantly tells Gonta that he was being manipulated and or “tricked” into abducting everyone...

When, in actuality, not only did Gonta know exactly what he was doing:

Kokichi even elaborated on his plans quite explicitly to Gonta:

And earlier on, the rest of the class had been treating him differently than they treat one another, sort of like he was a young child they needed to guide.

For example;

Kirumi assumes Gonta is not very aware that hitting someone with such an object is dangerous... despite him being a peer to his classmates and a young man.

And when Gonta has a pretty valid concern;

He is instructed against it and/or ignored on the subject:

Even Kaede slips up a little;

And during the investigation...

Himiko is 100% convinced here that Gonta is the culprit, to the point where she is trying to trick him with this kind of phrasing.

“Are you not, not the culprit?” equates to “Are you the culprit?”

“Are you not, not, not the culprit?” equates to... I believe it would be “Are you not the culprit?”

And that’s the thing:

Like how even I was confused and unsure about the triple ‘nots’ of Himiko’s statement, Gonta is too. Very reasonably so, actually--it’s extremely awkward phrasing purposefully meant to manipulate Gonta into saying he’s the culprit of Rantaro’s murder, and it takes Kaito and Himiko to realize that it was them causing the problem when Kaede called them out on such.

And again, after Gonta explains his actions during the murder, he gets very frustrated;

Already, we are seeing the effects piling up, leading to a frustrated, angry outburst.

And by far, one of the worst examples of this sort of unintentional ableism is this:

And Himiko even just... flat out does this:

By “dumbing down” the explanation of right and left, and not noticing that Gonta is left handed, she caused him to accidentally switch the wires on the headset, causing the memory error and making this entire trial all the more worse for him. By treating him like a child, like the theme of this trial, she only made things worse for him.

And that’s the problem.

Despite Gonta trying to tell everyone that he has no idea what they’re even talking about, everyone just assumes he “can’t understand the Virtual World” and brushes him off. Again and again, Gonta was treated like a child and brushed off, and this time, it came with a heavy consequence.

These instances of “guiding” Gonta are subtle, and on their own, aren’t much to address as anything more than suggestions or words of caution. However, there is a very clear theme of “we have to tell Gonta what he should do” that starts in Chapter 1 and continues on until the end of Chapter 4. They’re unintentionally telling him that Gonta needs to be guided and needs to be reminded of pretty obvious and basic knowledge, and worst of all, that he can’t be trusted to think for himself and thus needs someone to tell him how to think and feel.

If it was one or two times, that would be a whole other story. However, these instances pile up, higher and higher throughout the entire span of Gonta’s time in the Killing Game, and the majority of the class ends up dismissing or ignoring Gonta’s concerns.

This sparks a growing desire to prove himself, to prove that he can be useful during the trials. To prove to his peers that he can do something on his own, think for himself, decide for himself, except even until his final moments;

Even after Gonta’s Alter Ego telling himself and everyone explicitly that he was not tricked into killing Miu...

... No one listens.

Instead of listening to Gonta, over and over, they continue to brush him off and treat him like a child they had to care for, and yet no one stopped to consider that Gonta is a young man. An intelligent, young man who’s socially awkward, but never the less, a peer to them. Yet they didn’t treat him like a peer, and in the end...

Gonta died thinking he was an idiot. A child. A burden who made everything worse for everyone else. They all considered him as a child, and that’s how they saw him even in his final moments.

Gonta throughout the game constantly tries to prove himself, but no one is paying attention. When he learned of the Secret of the Outside World, Gonta didn’t even have anyone else to turn to for help or comfort. His feelings of uselessness compounded by the desperation to prove himself as an equal to everyone else drove him to agreeing to mercy kill the rest of the group... because how else was a stupid, burden of a child supposed to help anyone as he was? Even though he knew killing was wrong, with Kokichi’s plan, he was able to do something “for everyone,” and even that compounded into the ultimate failure.

It’s an unfortunate reality, because had the class treated him as a fellow classmate and peer, this might have been preventable.

Either way, what do you think? Was discussing the unintentional class ableism in depth towards Gonta a bit... too much? I do believe this is the first time I’ve ever done such a post, so you’ll have to forgive me. It’s also been quite a while since I made a proper analysis, hasn’t it? I must be a little rusty...

I will say--please, do not use this post for any discourse regarding the ableism and what have you if you choose to agree with this interpretation. I will not stand for it.

Either way, I hope you at least found this post to be food for thought. See you all next time.

[arsenicpanda]

I read your 3 takes posts, and I have some questions? Hope you don’t get mad and you can not reply if you want of course .

“And here, we take Jughead’s “She and I had a terrible break up back when I was in high school, and I never really recovered from it” as just that because, seriously, there’s no indication we should do otherwise from the text itself “

So this is the take you believe more in? That the show had Jughead saying that because he doesn’t have feelings for Betty? Along with this one, because you drop it there in the take too, what do you think about the 5x03 scene? Because that’s one BH and Jabitha fans see way different too.

And, what do you think about Betty regards all of those takes.

For the record, I don’t really get mad unless someone is being an asshole or purposefully disingenuous, and you are none of those and also I’m in Thoughts Mode, so it’s answering time.  Anyway, so, that take is specific to the overall jabitha take, the purest, most jabitha-positive take, much like the bughead version had the purest, most bughead-positive take.  But here’s my real, full take:

If I had to play the “guess what the Riverdale writers were thinking game,” I’d say that the writers decided to be wishy-washy on this line on purpose.  The weirdness of the bunker scene implies, to me, that they wanted to switch to bughead but still leave the door just a little bit open for jabitha, whether it was for later drama, endgame, or iconic bugabitha purposes.  So, they couldn’t just say “I’m not over Betty”, and instead they said “I never really recovered from [the break up],” and they clearly thought that those two things mean roughly the same thing, but the problem is that they absolutely do not.  Not being over a person means you’re still in love with them and that love has overshadowed your feelings in every other relationship you’ve had, thus interfering with it; within fiction, it’s tragically romantic.  Not being over a break up means that, regardless of your feelings for that person, it’s the break up that stuck with you and has interfered with your relationships, and that one is just horribly depressing in any context.  So, from the Doylist perspective, I think we’re supposed to assume it’s an “I’m stuck on Betty thing”, but the problem is that, for me, that does not line up with the Watsonian explanation.

You see, Jughead has been nothing but honest with Tabitha all season, just completely straightforward, and there’s no reason for him to change that behavior now; he’s already explaining the problems in the way of them dating, so what functional difference is there between the two in that regard?  It’s not like one is going to feel better than the other.  I see no indication in the scene for him to be speaking in some code, especially since his hallucination scene is specifically a replay of the conversation about the Archie kiss, aka the conversation (or lack thereof) that set the stage for their break up; this really does imply that his problem isn’t feelings for Betty but feelings about/trauma (for lack of a better word) from the break up.  Personally, I lean toward the Watsonian explanation because I am going to listen to the text before I listen to my best guess at the writers’ intentions.

But, honestly, I don’t think that conversation has anything to do with whether or not Jughead has feelings for Betty; it just relates to whether or not he is conscious of having feelings for Betty.  And in that regard, honestly, pick whatever you like.  I don’t have a specific take here based on the text because I really think it can be read equally along any point in the spectrum between “he has conscious feelings for Betty” through “he has unconscious feelings for Betty” through “he is unaware he has no feelings for Betty” all the way to “he has no feelings for Betty and he knows it.”  I’d say canon intends things to be somewhere between “he has conscious feelings for Betty” and “he has unconscious feelings for Betty”, but I think all can be argued if you really feel like it, and the take I use would vary based on the story I wanted to tell, as would my take on the extent of his feelings for Tabitha (from minor, easy-to-overcome crush to a serious crush and case of Feelings that’s only going to get worse/bigger).

As for 5x03, I assume you mean the apology confession/sex scene?  I read that as a mistake on both ends.  I think Betty is overcome with regret and guilt and also love, and she can’t really articulate her feelings--thus all the generic “I’m sorry”s--so she tries to show Jughead that she chose and still chooses him by using sex.  The problem is, this is clearly not what Jughead really wants and it’s definitely not what he needs; we see this in how he doesn’t kiss her back at first.  What Jughead wants and needs is a specific apology for the cheating-- the exact words “I’m sorry I kissed Archie” (as seen in his hallucination)--and, I would assume, an explanation, but he’s also afraid to ask for it (if I had to guess why, I’d assume he’s afraid of the answer).  Betty does, effectively, pressure him into sex, since we see he’s non-responsive at first, but it’s a very light and unintentional pressure that isn’t traumatic or anything, it just kind of is.  The problem isn’t the sex, it’s that they aren’t speaking the same language here.  And because it doesn’t work and instead leaves things awkward--Jughead’s afraid to broach the topic and needs Betty to do it, and Betty doesn’t want to push him and needs Jughead to do it--they stop communicating and things go sideways.  I fully believe that if they had talked that night instead of having sex, they’d still be together.

As for Betty in regards to these takes, I’m not sure what you mean?  Outside of the 5x03 scene, her current state of mind and her feelings are pretty irrelevant to what’s going on with Jughead.  Betty is kind of just living her life completely outside Jughead’s because, depending on your interpretation, she either has no feelings for him outside of friendship or she is entirely unaware of the feelings she still has for him or even is conscious of having feelings for Jughead but is also consciously pushing them down.  Canon is obviously going for the second or third option (my money’s on the second), but I will say that, in universe, there isn’t really a reason for any of these characters to interpret Betty’s interactions with him as displays of romantic interest; it can be entirely platonic, even if that is not the “““correct””” interpretation.  As for me, I can see arguments for all sides, and my interpretation of choice would vary depending on what I want to do with that interpretation.  Do I want to write a jabitha fic?  She just sees him as a friend.  Do I want to write a bugabitha or bughead fic?  She has feelings for him but may or may not be conscious of said feelings, again depending on the fic.  And the same applies for gif sets, never-to-be-written story ideas, and anything else.

tl;dr The Doylist and Watsonian explanations for the break up line clash, and I lean Watsonian.  That scene is entirely unrelated to Jughead’s actual feelings, which could be literally anything.  The 5x03 confession/sex scene was a series of mistakes that set the stage for bughead’s break up.  Jughead’s feelings could be interpreted any way, the same as Betty’s.  I acknowledge the likely canon reads of Jughead and Betty’s feelings, but don’t subscribe to any interpretation in particular myself, instead picking and choosing depending on my purposes.

[hashtagartistlife]

Do you have a license for all these hot takes? ▲ Unleash the other meta conversation. Please give use Ichigo.

Or not, apparently I don't know how to read and missed that you already did one for him. Oh well.

Even though I’ve already given my Hot Take about Ichigo (see here), I figured I can take this chance to write that meta I promised re: ichiruki’s double protag status, the meaning of ichigo’s name, and what it means to be a shounen hero. This will also sort of addresses the debacle a few months ago in regard to the Only well-worded, moderately coherent and somewhat valid IH meta I have read, which is also primarily about the meaning of ichigo’s name and how that ties in with the overall theme of protection throughout the manga. (I think the basis for the IH meta – that Ichigo only ever uses the serious form of the word ‘to protect’ for ORIHIME as an individual, and that the other times he uses them are for broader swathes of things—has been debunked in the comments, but since I don’t speak Japanese I really can’t figure out the validity of either side of the argument so I’ll take it as it is. Also, when I say ‘somewhat valid meta’, what I mean is in the context of the narrative I don’t think it’s valid at all, but at least there aren’t major glaring logical fallacies in the meta itself. The bar is so, so low for IH meta. I’m not even sure we can call most of their…. text-vomit… meta at all. 

Anyway. Petty and off-topic.) 

So, here goes: the meta about ichigo’s name and how it correlates to the theme of protection throughout the manga, what it means to be a shounen hero, and why and how those two things tie in with ichiruki’s double protag status! 

Ichigo’s name is comprised of two kanji – one obviously the kanji for the number one, the other a kanji that means ‘to protect’. We all know this. This leads to Ichigo’s name potentially having two interpretations: ‘one protector’ (or as the official eng translation put it, the one who protects), or ‘to protect one thing’ (the translation used in the scanlator’s versions + official kr translation). Both would make sense given the context of the entire story, but I tend to think the latter version is slightly more relevant (not necessarily more accurate— just more relevant), mostly because in chapter 19, straight after hearing the meaning of his name, Ichigo goes on to single out one thing (one person) that he wants to protect—his mom. 

(And why does he single out his mom for this honour? Because his mom always protected him. This is relevant a little later.)

He then does go on to say that as his sisters were born and he went to the dojo and got stronger, the list of things he wanted to protect grew, so it’s absolutely valid to read his name as just meaning ‘protector’. But, despite that, it’s very clear in the text that Ichigo always has one thing (person) that he wants to protect above all no matter what. This is the ‘one’ thing that he associates his identity of ‘protector’ to. Initially, it’s his mom—because when she dies, despite the ‘growing list of people he wants to protect’ still existing, Ichigo loses his sense of identity as ‘the protector’. Sure, he still protects his sisters, but it’s duty driving him— he no longer thinks of himself as a protector. How can he, when, in his view, he’s the one who practically killed his mother? His ‘growing list of people to protect’ halts to a stop, and years later, we see him telling Rukia that he’s ‘not a good enough guy to stick his neck out for other people’. This is a lie, as we all know, but it’s important that Ichigo is espousing this rhetoric. He has stopped actively wanting to protect. 

So, despite Ichigo having an innate desire to protect, I would argue it’s conditional – 1) dependent on the one person he wants to protect the most (e.g. his mom, and, as I will argue in a moment, Rukia) being alive and well, because otherwise he just falls into despair and rejects his identity as protector, and 2) initially dependent on the subject of protection being someone close to him. Ichigo, despite having progressed to ‘I will definitely protect everybody’ by the tybw arc, did not start there—it was a progression! He starts off very small and quite selfish – first, the person most important to him, his mom. Then his family. Then his friends. Then friends of friends, then acquaintances, then—and so on. This is why I said Ichigo is self-centred: everything he does is dependent first and foremost on the things and people that are most important to him. (Which is fine for a normal person! Maybe not so fine as a shounen protagonist, though that part comes later.) Ichigo doesn’t start off with some lofty ideal to protect the whole world – compare that to Rukia, who lands in the story and immediately demands him to protect everybody, regardless of distance or convenience. As dux put it in his excellent meta, this is an instinct towards protection versus a philosophy of protection. Ichigo has an instinct to protect, like most people do! But Rukia has a philosophy of protection, which most people can’t even begin to fathom or try to emulate. (This will, again, be important for a later point in this post, but for now, back to ichigo’s name.) 

So basically, we have established so far that: Ichigo’s name means one who protects or protector of one thing. But whichever interpretation we go by, it’s evident in the text that Ichigo has a… tether person, of sorts, that he ties the meaning of his name and his identity of ‘protector’ to—a person he wants to protect above all. Initially it’s his mom. But after his mom dies? 

It’s Rukia. 

It’s blatant. Ichigo being unable to save Rukia in ch56 broken coda is DIRECTLY paralleled with him being unable to save Masaki. At the end of the arc, in having saved Rukia, Ichigo regains his identity as protector finally gets some closure re: the Masaki era of his life: ‘the rain’s finally stopped’. It’s very clear that Rukia’s importance to his identity as protector is equivalent to the importance that Masaki had on it. Rukia has now become his ‘tether’; Rukia is now the person he wants to protect above all; Rukia is the one, who, should he fail to protect her, he would fall into despair and reject his protector identity again. He WAS a little down about being unable to protect Tatsuki, Chad, and Orihime in the HM arc, but it was nothing like the abject despair he experienced at Masaki’s death + Rukia being taken away for execution, and as soon as RUKIA comes back and affirms his identity, despite the fact of his failure still existing, Ichigo perks straight back up. Basically, failures to protect people other than Rukia get Ichigo down, but it’s not enough to keep him down as long as Rukia’s still standing. 

Ichigo also consistently goes apeshit over Rukia’s safety in particular. He’s not spurred into action re: going to find the Vaizards until Rukia becomes hurt. He thinks of Yammy and Ulquiorra, but his eyes don’t glaze over black until he thinks of Grimmjow, who has hurt Rukia. He refuses to split up and Rukia specifically calls him out  that it’s out of concern for HER safety. As soon as he feels Rukia being cut down, he immediately throws away the mission to go save her instead. And most importantly – what’s the main criteria for Ichigo deciding on the one he wants to protect the most? It’s the person who protects HIM. Rukia is one of the only people in the text who consistently protects Ichigo, physically, mentally, and emotionally. (She is also the only person that the text refers to as having ‘saved’ Ichigo. Nobody else gets this distinction.) 

Alright! So Ichigo’s instinct towards protection has a self-centred bent to it, and the person at the centre of this instinct has gone from being Masaki to Rukia. So what now from here? 

A little bit of a tangent: when I first read the chapter regarding the meaning of Ichigo’s name, I was a little taken aback, because – what a selfish name for a shounen protag, for someone who’s supposed to go on to become a hero of the world. Heroes don’t get to protect just one thing, they have to protect everybody! How is Ichigo going to be a shounen protag saving the whole world, if he’s only going to protect one thing? 

To answer this question, we need to have a look at what makes a typical shounen protag. Look at Naruto, whose ‘ninja way’ has rehabilitated countless people, who eventually became Hokage, so that ‘his ninja way’ officially became adopted as the whole Leaf Village’s ‘ninja way’. Look at Luffy and his crew, whose carefree attitudes and ride-or-die comradeship between their crew members is widely admired and emulated. Look at Fairy Tail, where Natsu’s guild is the ideal for what a guild should be, and many guilds have reformed in their image with their values. What makes a typical shounen protagonist, I would argue, are two main things: an indisputable, unshakeable, almost inhumanly good ideal widely recognized within the canon as the way that things should be, and the faith, power, and drive necessary to rehabilitate people to this ideal and change the world so that it becomes closer to this ideal. 

Naruto is the ideal of a ninja. Luffy and his crew are the ideal of a pirate crew. Natsu’s Fairy Tail guild is the ideal of a mage guild. 

Is Ichigo the ideal of what a Shinigami should be? 

Not initially! Initially, he’s just a prickly little kid with a shitload of trauma and depression to boot! Initially, his instinct to protect has a self-centred bent to it! Initially, he’s not even a Shinigami at all! 

This is where Rukia comes in. Rukia and her philosophy of protection is the ideal of this series – she is what all Shinigami should be. The text isn’t even subtle about this—Rukia canonically has the most beautiful sword (soul) in all of Soul Society. Realistic or not, Rukia is the ‘absolute good’ of this universe—her ideal is, theoretically, the universal ideal. 

But idealism alone doesn’t make Rukia the protagonist-- Rukia lacks the faith, power and drive necessary to turn people to her way of thinking and enact change, which is the other key component of a shounen protag. This is the part that Ichigo supplies—his complete and utterly unshakeable faith in Rukia and her values, the power necessary to back those values, and the ability to spread these values far and wide so that other people start to take up these values as well. I said above that Rukia’s philosophy of protection is so far-fetched that most people can’t even begin to fathom or emulate it—but Ichigo is not ‘most people’. He’s a shounen protag, goddammit! He has the ability to take up an ‘ideal’ that for most people would be impossible, and actually enact change towards that ideal. 

This is why Ichigo and Rukia are double protagonists. Not because they were designed to be matchy-matchy or because of their avalanche of matching titles or whatever else. This is why. They are literally two halves of one shounen protagonist. Kubo called them sand and rotator in the side A and B poems, and he could NOT have picked a better analogy for them. Think of a watermill (or a sand mill, as the analogy is given), which is used to grind grain. The mill by itself cannot perform its purpose any more than the water by itself can magically grind the grain. The water needs to be driven by the wheel through the right mechanisms, and the wheel needs the water to actually function. Rukia drives Ichigo, points him in the right direction with her values, and Ichigo supplies the force necessary to enact change. Rotator, and sand. One protagonist, split into two. 

(As a completely unrelated aside, I don’t know what it’s like in Japan, but in Korea ‘grinding the grain’ is a euphemism for sex, and watermills are inextricably associated with illicit liaisons. They’re the eastern world’s equivalent to the western world’s stables- any raunchy business conducted outside is usually conducted in a watermill.) 

This is also why Ichigo’s name wasn’t something more all-encompassing. He can ‘protect one thing’ and still be a hero – as long as the ‘one thing’ he protects is Rukia. He wants to protect Rukia above all else, to the detriment of others, even (as evidenced by him turning away from rescuing Orihime to rescue Rukia)—but Rukia tells him no, no, I refuse to be protected by you, you have to protect the whole world. This is why it HAS to be Rukia for Ichigo – anyone with less than the absolute selfless ideal that Rukia has could never make Ichigo into the hero. Rukia turns Ichigo’s head to the whole world, opens his eyes to the possibility of protecting more than those in his immediate circle, makes him selfless enough to go through with it. Rukia makes Ichigo the hero. (Big aside: I’m not using ‘hero’ and ‘protag’ interchangeably here. Ichigo is the ‘hero’ of the narrative, but BOTH ichigo and rukia are the ‘protagonists’ of the story.) 

But that isn’t the end of it. I have mentioned, in the past, that Bleach is not typical shounen, that it is structured more like YA lit and should be analysed as such. ‘But Sera! You just spent like 2 A4 pages talking about why Ichigo and Rukia are Standard Shounen Protags together!’ Ah but you see, that’s only initially. INITIALLY, Ichigo and Rukia need each other to become One Whole Stock Standard Shounen Protag. Rukia lacks faith and drive, Ichigo lacks ideal. They need the other to support their flaws, initially. To be completely honest, this is an excellent way to start an unhealthy codependent relationship. The most beautiful part about Ichiruki is that they don’t go down this path at all. They start becoming a whole shounen protag individually, by adopting the other person’s strength as their own. Rukia’s ideals inspire Ichigo, and by tybw, he is as avid about protecting everybody as Rukia is. Rukia sees Ichigo’s unrelenting faith in the fact that she is a good person worth saving, and starts believing in it herself and reciprocates in kind in HM and FB arcs. This is where the YA component comes in—YA protags, unlike typical Shounen Protags, don’t start off with an unapproachable ideal and the power+faith+drive necessary to change the world with it. They GROW into it. That is what Ichigo and Rukia are doing—they are both growing throughout the whole story to fit their protagonist roles, so that eventually, they can become One Whole Independent protagonist on their own. 

It’s a beautiful, perfectly balanced, ironic jigsaw puzzle: Rukia had the ideal, but didn’t have the ability to turn others to this ideal. The only person she turned to it was Ichigo, but that was enough—Ichigo turns everyone else to it as well, overcoming centuries of tradition. Ichigo had the faith and drive, but no-one to put it behind. The only person he put it behind was Rukia, and that was enough—she and her values guide his choices and actions, and he becomes heroic. Ichigo and Rukia each failed one criteria for being a shounen protag, except with each other, BUT THAT WAS ENOUGH. Affecting and changing just one person—each other—was enough to set everything in motion.

A couple other points that I couldn’t find a place to fit into the essay cohesively, but think they’re still worth a mention:

Rukia says ‘all souls should be protected’, and she enacts this by protecting Ichigo, who is a hybrid of all the different soul types present in the narrative: human, quincy, hollow, reaper. Ichigo, despite being such a mixed entity, identifies firmly as shinigami, not because the shinigami convinced him with their ironclad, lofty morals but because Rukia did. 

If Ichigo’s main flaw is being self-centred and tunnel visioned + a weird sort of superiority/hero complex, then Rukia’s main flaw is probably the exact opposite - despite having this incredible ideal, her lack of faith in herself + her tendency to obey the system in all but the most dire, life-threatening situations. Even their flaws are a perfect balancing act, mitigating each other out. (Rukia’s main flaws I probably want to go into in a bit more detail some other time, since it’s not something the fandom in general has much discussion on.)

So! In summary, the tl,dr version: 

Ichigo’s name means ‘protector’ or ‘to protect one thing’ (both versions have been used in official translations). The latter is more relevant, as I have explained above. This ‘one thing’ initially is his mom, but by the end of the SS arc, it has very firmly become Rukia, again evidence listed above. 

This had the potential to be problematic, as it’s not very heroic of someone to want to protect just one person, to hell with everyone else. BUT the narrative sidesteps that by making Ichigo and Rukia two halves of one shounen protagonist, and making them work best when they are together.

Shounen protags require two components: an ideal, and the ability+desire to enact that ideal. Rukia had the former, Ichigo had the latter. That’s why it’s not problematic for Ichigo to want to protect just one person most— because that one person is actually the ‘ideal moral standard’ of their entire universe, and she keeps telling him to use his powers for good and not just her. 

But that’s not even all. Initially, they need the other to become ‘whole’, so to speak— but they don’t stay that way. Ichigo and Rukia have an immensely positive impact on each other, and help each other grow to adopt the best traits of the other and become a hero in their own right. Again, this is why they are both protagonists— because both of them kept growing and changing, right up to the final arc. 

So, even though it’s been said a million times before, it bears repeating: Bleach genuinely is a story about Ichigo and Rukia, both of whom felt a little displaced in their own worlds and had trouble making connections. They connected with each other, and only then could their immense capacity for good could start changing the world. That’s really the crux of it— that it had to be each other for these two, not anybody else. Nobody else could bring out the best in them except for the other. They would never have become this extraordinary had it not been for the other person recognising their inherent value. It absolutely had to be Rukia for Ichigo, and vice versa. It’s always going to be the Ichigo and Rukia show.

[starbuck]

I don’t know who Armitage is and at this point I’m too afraid to ask

(Hi there! I tried to type out a normal answer to this ask but it accidentally turned into a giant essay so honestly, anon, you should be afraid and I apologize in advance. If this is really Too Much, here’s an Armitage outfit-rating post I made a bit ago that covers a lot of the same content and also has additional screenshots of him for identification purposes.)

I didn’t know who he was either until about seven months ago... Well, that’s not entirely true, but it was around that time that I realized all his different appearances throughout the show were the same person and that person was the infamous Mr. Armitage. You may recognize his name by the fact that he’s being shittalked pretty much every time he’s brought up but he did some shitty things so about 75% of the time, he deserves it. 

But who is Armitage? Despite often being seen with a gun and hanging out with the marines, he’s not a marine himself, which is a common fandom misconception. Instead, he’s Terror’s gunroom steward which, despite its name, has nothing to do with guns (although he’s implied on several occasions to have the keys to the armory but whether this is a regular part of his job or a duty he just happened to be assigned, I do not know).

this was the shot that first made me notice him way back in October of last year and I had no clue who he was or why we were looking at him during the lashing

But what is his actual canonical significance? Although he is not a marine, he’s almost always seen by Tozer’s side. I like to think of myself (and the wonderful @rhavewellyarnbag) as the head archaeologists of what has been lovingly dubbed “the secret Armitage/Tozer subplot,” found only by closely studying the hidden depths beneath the surface of the show. I’ve actually been meaning to gather up all of my old meta and rewrite it to suit my current thoughts on the matter but, I’ll give it a somewhat abbreviated try here, under the cut.

The first time we properly see Armitage, he’s standing in armed defense of Tozer, immediately after Heather has been attacked by the Tuunbaq. Right off the bat, it’s a bit strange for a steward, who by any ordinary measure should be a nobody on the ship, to be protecting a Sergeant of the Royal Marines so that alone makes him stand out and I would argue that protecting Tozer becomes the cornerstone of his character.

In ep 6, while doing some of the aforementioned shittalking, Hickey says that Armitage had always wanted to be a marine, but was disqualified due to his disability, implying that he’s now somewhat of a wannabe or a fan but I think it goes deeper than that. In the very same episode, at Carnivale, we see Armitage assisting Tozer in feeding the comatose Heather, something he apparently knows how to do by this point and looks perfectly comfortable doing, which implies to me that he had been assisting in Heather’s care ever since his attack, in a similar fashion to how we see Tozer at his bedside in ep 5. And then, when all goes to shit at the end of ep 6, Armitage not only tries desperately to help Tozer save Heather from the fire but, failing that, drags Tozer out of the tent against his will, saving him from being crushed or burned to death for what was, by that point, a lost cause. Whatever Armitage’s original reasoning was for socializing with the marines, this is more than him playing out a fantasy of becoming one himself; his relationship with them, and with Tozer in particular, is personal. 

Enter: The Mutiny. Armitage was already connected to Hickey’s whole situation via participating in Silna’s kidnapping in ep 4 and then not owning up to it (remember how I said he deserves to be shittalked?) but Hickey didn’t even need blackmail to get him involved in the mutiny, all he needed was Tozer. With Tozer on board for his own reasons, Armitage’s eventual participation in the mutiny was a given. Also unhelpful to any hope of staying neutral was Armitage’s involvement in the murder of Koveyook and his family based on Hickey’s lies, as we hear about in ep 8, after which Hickey implies within his earshot that he’d like to see the armory opened. One can interpret this situation in multiple ways depending on whether Armitage had figured by that point that Hickey was the real murderer of Irving and Farr and was now in fear for his own life or whether he was still convinced of the family’s guilt and was acting purely out of racism but, regardless, it’s no surprise that, when Tozer asked him to open the armory without orders, he complied (although he was, tellingly, unable to defend this action to Little when pressed).

And so, ep 8 plays out, Tozer’s nearly hanged (much to Armitage’s dismay if you watch for him in the crowd around the gallows), the Tuunbaq interrupts, and the mutiny is on its way. But wait! Let’s not brush over Armitage saving Tozer’s life for the second time by thwacking Little, who had Tozer held at gunpoint, over the head. RIP Little’s skull but also this is the second time he was bamboozled by Tozer and Armitage within one day so… “Fool me once,” and all that…

(Also, try to tell me that appearing out of the fog in the nick of time to save the life of the person you love isn’t the most romantic thing ever? You can’t.)

But now the mutineers are their own offshoot group and things are getting serious(ly bad). At the end of ep 9 we have the scene where Armitage tries to convince Tozer to leave Hickey, which I think of as an attempt to, once again, save Tozer’s life. Although there was no way for Armitage to know the extent of Hickey’s agenda, he did know that he was being asked to assist in kidnapping Crozier, a reckless move wholly unrelated to their survival, not to mention that Hickey was clearly going nuts overall. So, to me, their conversation rings not only of Armitage grasping at their best chance of survival, but also of him trying to get Tozer out of a potentially dangerous and abusive situation. But, of course, Tozer says no and, despite his fear, Armitage stays as well, and things end how they end. 

in case it’s not clear, Armitage is the one who leans forward and reaches his hand out after Tozer is knocked out by Hickey :(

To summarize a bit more succinctly, Armitage’s narrative life is a tragedy marked by repeated failures and unrequited love with no solace or fulfillment and it sounds pretty damn depressing when I say it Like That but also, this is The Terror, so it’s really just par for the course. 

His being motivated by something as wonderful as love, and love for someone as worthy of it as Tozer is incredibly appealing to me. Not everything done in the service of love is good but I am naturally more sympathetic to it than I am to the actions of those who I believe were only in it for themselves. Harvey once said (paraphrasing here, apologies!) that Armitage might regret some of the things that happened, but he doesn’t regret why they happened, and I fully agree with that assessment. That is to say, I don’t think he set out to do bad things or was indifferent to the negative effects of the actions he ultimately took, but I also think that he loved Tozer and would have done anything to keep him safe and I really can’t hate him for that.

In fact (if this ridiculously long answer didn’t tell you already) for all his faults, I love him quite a lot! So thank you for asking and, if you made it this far, have a smiling and happy Armitage for your trouble!

[thattimdrakeguy]

I’m writing this fic about the Batfamily and I’m afraid of writing them as OOC. If you are able to, could you please give some tips on each of the Batfam’s personalities and characteristics? To specify, Dick, Jason, Tim, Steph, Cass, Babs, Damian, and Duke are the characters I’m using. It would be really helpful! Thank you!!

This is a tricky question, because I don’t know the story of your fic to help you in any specific way. So if after this you wanna DM me for more specific help on how to work things out, I’ll be there to help you right away unless I’m doing something, but I have no plans.

I’m going to go from easiest for me to do to least easiest, because I obviously know Tim the best, but even then, it’s hard, because going off the character’s you are choosing, it’s set during the part of the timeline were he went OOC, but I’ll do my best just to say his general character so you can use that as a base for things. Like how he was developed in his origin and all that, and notable characteristics he’s had as he grew while still in character. With some that even if they weren’t around with some of those characters, would apply to them.

His is also going to be the longest, like way too long, because he’s a way more nuanced and complex character than anyone ever gives him credit for. So he takes a lot longer to explains by a freaking large margin. Like sorry if it’s too big, I just kept saying more as more came to mind because I feel like his nuances are what makes him interesting and easy to right. Once you get a hang of his nuances, and you get used to it, it makes it easier to put yourself into his mindset to how he works, which makes him easier to write as well.

(THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY LONG POST, AND I APOLOGIZE. I just really wanted to be thorough and give contexts to stuff. It’s less of tips and more of an overly long description of what I know about each character and what’s in-character and what’s not going off of how the character’s were developed to be, and not counting the out of character writing. So really sorry about this being so freaking long)

Tim:

Tim’s origin right off the back is having met Dick at a very very young age, I don’t think he could even strongly walk yet, so I’mma say three. He was instantly attached to Dick, he just admired him instantly just for giving him affection. He was his hero. But he was also there the day Dick’s parents died, which traumatized Tim and gave him nightmares for years. But being able to remember that night so thoroughly, he remembered a specific move that Dick could do that very few could, and that’s how he found out Dick was Batman, and logically, Bruce Wayne was Batman.

There’s a large misconception that as a little kid, Tim followed Batman and Robin around, but that was not the case. At least not physically and literally followed them around. Closest being when I believe he happened to come across Batman in his origin story, and purposely did his best detective work to figure out where Dick would be.

As shown several times but most strongly in his origin, but wasn’t as strong the more he went on, he’s sort of socially oblivious to what’s considered normal or not, or what other people are thinking of him.

For instance he just knocked on Starfire’s and Dick’s apartment, asked Kori (Starfire) if Dick was home because he needed his help, and when she said no, just bolted even when Kori asked his name. Just concerning the crap out of her. Even when he first met Dick, he just wouldn’t say his name because “NO TIME”, he just squirmed around place to place on his bike being completely oblivious of himself. In his first miniseries he searches up information on Clyde (a former government agent he saved and befriends) that he shouldn’t have, unaware that that’d obviously be crossing a line for some people. Even taking his girlfriend to a car show, where there was a lot of bikini models around, and it didn’t even occur to him what it’d look like he was there for. He was just genuinely bubbly to see the cars.

He doesn’t do any of those sorts of things out of malice, he’s always just presented as being incredibly oblivious of himself quite a bit. Most likely from not having his parents around that much as his childhood progressed, and typically just living in boarding schools, or with a nanny. So he didn’t really developed right as one interpretation, and another being (that was actually almost confirmed if it wasn’t for Tim getting a writer before another could say it) is that he’s on the Autism spectrum. Which is technically verified, as he has many symptoms of Asperger’s. But that isn’t technically canon, as it never got to be officially said. But it’s valid enough.

Tim’s main strength is his detective work, he also knows how to use a computer to his advantage. Many modern comics act as if Tim is a master hacker who could hack into anything. But he actually mostly used them for detective work, and small hack jobs, some of which he failed. He seemed to have learned more about hacking from Barbara, or at least some what implied, as Babs let him help her build a big computer, or something of that sort.

He also took karate as a kid, and is implied to have also taken gymnastics. It’s stated that he’s actually really good at gymnastics by Alfred in Tim’s origin, but his fighting skills, despite the karate lessons he had previously taken, isn’t as good as the others. Hence his staff, and having to be clever in how he goes about a fight.

How Tim operates as far as emotionally or mentally depends too. Sometimes he’ll go straight from the heart and get himself in trouble, but other times he’ll take his time to really plan something out for himself on the spot. It depends on how his emotions are at the time. If he was just picked on or beat up, he’ll be more agitated, and if something really really bad that happened, he just go so far in he just beats the crap out of everyone as bad as he can. As shown by trying to apprehend someone that shot someone he knew at school, or Batman betraying his trust (in an honestly out of character story). If he’s calmer though, or at least doing his best to be, he’ll use his brain more before he starts. I think his talents in planning have been overstated for ages, because while he’s good at it, he’s not exactly the greatest or overall good. Just enough to work fine enough to get the job done.

One of his biggest mental weakness’s, is his constant insecurity. Somethings that’s so constantly on his mind is letting someone down, rather it be Batman or his dad Jack, or even Nightwing, or his team. The reason why Tim acted so different and more of a seriously brooding personality in Young Justice, was because he was so insecure about not having powers that he thought he had to push himself to his limits. So he used some Batman leadership tactics, and fought harder than he ever fought before just to seem like he was even worth having around. When by himself though, it’s more of a sadness, an upset feeling in his gut. Tim has anxiety about things, rather or not he’s good enough. He’s not a super confident person when it comes to himself. He doesn’t think much of him.

One editorial person answering fan questions in the back of comics as they used to, even described Tim as meek. He doesn’t brag or think much of himself as super according to it.

He’s also stated and shown to be internally scared quite a bit, even shaking when he first got his own Robin suit. Another occasion saying the cold water might excuse his shivering. Which goes along with his anxiety.

Another thing about him that is more low-key and not as noticed, is how Tim, even though he clearly thinks of himself as a kid, heck even the letter column above says so, he has also said since being Robin he’s never had time to be a kid. But he is also still a kid.

As they specified his voice a bit more, he tended to use heck, Holy crud, dang, fudge, weenie, and even Pus Bucket (a reference to Ghost Busters) as his choice of cussing (if that even remotely counts).

And even if it’s not noticeable at first, is shown as having a secret teddy bear that he kept hidden under his mattress so I assume no one would see it.

He’s also a pretty innocent kid despite what all he sees. His mind doesn’t go to the gutter. He trusts people far faster than he should, even trusting Lady Shiva, the world’s most dangerous woman and know criminal right away.

Even Tim’s step-mother saying so out-loud. Showing that this is also the case in his personal life as well.

It also goes along with his social obliviousness. This stuff being rounded into not having any street smarts, which was a main theme for Tim directly in his first miniseries. As well as being naive.

Of course as life went on that wasn’t the case as much, but in the above screenshot, Dana (his step-mom) is saying that as Tim is already 16.

Tim in-general also being a super hero fanboy. As a kid he watched the news, clipped out the papers on them, collected, and even drew his own Batman art (and potentially) others to put on his wall.

Tim’s general behavior while socializing also depends on his emotions at the time. He’s normally very nice and friendly, when not super depressed or down on himself he’s bubbly. But he’s also still a kid, he can pout when he’s hurt, and passive aggressive to people he doesn’t like. Examples being, literally not listening to a jock that picks on his friends, an over-arrogant jerk he met in France, and even Steph because she kept being reckless and flirting with him when he didn’t like it.

Nothing straight up insults, but just generally passive aggressive, give them a clue he doesn’t like them very much even if it never worked. He just wants them to go away, unless they’re a straight up bully. Tim, if it’s no one he specifically knows that will invade his personal life, will beat up bullies. He really can’t stand a bully.

Another thing about Tim is that even though he’s an introvert typically, he’s also not very shy. A shy kid wouldn’t travel miles on a bike (and I freaking hope busses) to meet someone he barely knows because he believes in Batman needing a Robin. He also stands up to bullies, and unless he’s really uncomfortable could talk to about anyone. He even slept in only his briefs and undershirt in the house of someone he doesn’t know, with two people he also barely knows. With that example also probably adding up to the socially oblivious part of his personality.

As far as his relationships go, he canonically thinks of the Bat-Family as his family. Dick calls Tim his little brother, Babs treats Tim as her baby brother as well as acting like his/ Aunt/ Mom depending on the situation (I think Tim fell asleep on her couch after eating pizza while using his cape as a blanket and drooling. So Mom’s a stretch but still), Bruce is his distant but still father figure, Alfred is his grandpa (who he actually plays video games with), even Cass to an extent treating Tim as a baby brother as well.

He is very much the baby of the family. And Tim talks to them about personal stuff (bar Cass cause he was scared of her in the beginning), most of them from Alfred and Dick, to the mute hunchback in the Batcave Harold (who is a real character and I love him). He was always collecting advice from where ever he could get it.

He’s also intensely morally operated. He hates killing. He said he took an oath to let himself be killed before ever killing, getting PTSD from feeling responsible for a death, and even crying when he had genuinely thought Bruce killed someone.

As far as how he tries to present himself, he is constantly doing his best to take everything as seriously as he can, even shunning himself when he starts to stop taking things as serious, he wants to be seen as serious, trustworthy, and reliable desperately so he doesn’t let anyone down. He is constantly hard of himself, and is always trying to be what he thinks Batman wants him to be. Which is were a lot of his anxieties from. Even trying to think of what Batman or Dick would do because he regards them so highly. Even calling Bruce the great man he’s ever known I believe during one of his post-origin pre-Robin appearances.

He’s naive and oblivious of himself, as well as childish in some areas (I think his nanny yelled at him once for it), but overall what he tries to hardest at is taking everything seriously as possible, and using his brain as much as he can. He may not be the most mature, often actually handling situations very immaturely, but he does his best to at least seem like he’s mature, and to an extent he actually can be genuinely very mature, or at least as much as a naive oblivious child can be.

Dick:

This ones a lot shorter probably, because I don’t read him as much, but still have a good handle on him.

I think he’s a character very few always write correctly, because they ride too much into the friendly, compassionate guy. Which, compassion being his main motivator in how he goes about as much as he can, and he’s incredibly friendly, he’s also a very angsty and angry person deep down.

He’s a perfectionist, a trait fics tend to give to Tim more, but actually belongs to Dick. He gets really hard on himself when he thinks he messed something up badly, having nightmares over it, he doesn’t like himself when he messes up something badly. And even if he’s not a naturally angry person, when he is angry, he can be VERY VERY angry.

And until Batman writers in the early 00s started it, I wouldn’t even had considered him all that chatty. He had some jokes in him, was very light hearted when not in distress or mad, but as he was developed by Marv Wolfman, who basically created the Dick that has remained the base for him ever since, he was relatively a generally calm guy when he wasn’t emotional.

He was polite, a charming guy, the type of person you want to bring home to your parents basically. He dressed well. Did his best to keep people accommodated. 

He wasn’t a goofy, constant jokester that’d talk your ear off or keep begging for hugs. 

He’s not that kind of guy. He’s just a gentlemen.

He’s also not that much of a thot. He’s a “wait till it’s right” sort of guy when it comes to sex.

He’d do anything in the world he could to make sure his friends felt right too, and that they were okay.

But all this doesn’t mean he’s not just a one note personality. Depending on how bad he feels like he messed up, he’ll distance himself from people, stop caring as much about his appearance, get more violent and mean. He also doesn’t take well to Batman’s nonsense, he’s probably the person he got specifically mad at the most. He didn’t like the way Batman went about stuff after a while. He had complicated feelings towards him.

Despite people nowadays just thinking of Dick being Batman’s son officially, adopted, end of. That wasn’t exactly their relationship. Dick had a complicated relationship with Bruce. Part of him looked at Bruce as a big brother, and another half a dad, and he wasn’t even adopted, just a ward. Something that Dick was actually quite insecure about, till apparently he got adopted as a grown adult man (which I dunno is true or an edit, but I’ve seen it somewhere).

Dick’s relationship with Tim is pure big bro baby bro. He was very protective of Tim, calling him the closest thing to a brother he ever had, and little brother, before they were ever even officially brothers. He’d push Tim out of the way in times of big trouble, make him stand back, ruffled his hair all the time, and loved teasing him. But when they started off, Dick just sort of thought Tim was a weird annoying kid, given that Tim was acting so screwy during his origin, Dick really didn’t know what to make of him, but the closer they got, they got very very close. Dick cared a lot about Tim a ton once they got accommodated. Tim would even call Dick on the phone just to talk to him about anything from his day to his problems. Tim could count on Dick to help when ever he could. Tim was Dick’s dweebie baby brother who he took care of when needed. Even teaching Tim how to wash clothes personally since Tim didn’t have a clue. 

I don’t think him and Jason really had a relationship. He gave him a number to talk about stuff like Robin angst, and a few pics show they hanged out at least once or twice, but nothing suggests they were close. It seems like Dick was hard on himself, because Jason died before they could get close. After the Red Hood, Dick’s just kind of a-- dick to Jason, and Tim was too, but I don’t consider that in-character. Neither Tim nor Dick would be even remotely okay about the killing, but I can’t picture them treating him like he’s a joke and less than trash. Too much emotional baggage there. Tim would be distant to Jason, and Dick would be uncomfortable and conflicted. That’s my guesses on a more accurate relationship.

Dick’s always had a really big crush on Babs ever since he was a kid to the point they were stuck in a small area together and Dick lost dignity over-- I dunno, puberty effecting him. There’s no way I can put that that’s comfortable. But Dick has a crush on Babs, that got put into a romantic relationship both ways when they aged down Babs, but for some people the relationship is relatively gross because of the age gap, and feeling the need to age down a character like Babs, who just looked at Dick like a kid, to just date him. It’s complicated, and I dunno enough about them besides that exactly. I’m not the guy to ask on that.

He doesn’t have a proper relationship with either Duke or Steph, but it doesn’t seem like Dick’s ever been the fondest of Steph. And Duke’s new, and they only ever been around each other in fan service moments. So I don’t think he has a real actual relationship with Duke.

Dick and Cass despite I don’t think ever being shown much together, also had a sweet relationship. With Dick doing his best to make sure his sister (before she was adopted, but Dick treated her as one nevertheless much like Tim as Dick’s baby brother) was comfortable, acting goofy, and to  me coming across as if he’s always really wanted a sister. But they weren’t super close, but there’s enough there to say that they easily could become close.

Dick and Damian was mentor mentoree, and to a large extent Dick was Damian’s father figure as Bruce was dead. As written by Damian’s creator, Dick didn’t seem to like Damian at all in the beginning, but as Dick could realize and understand his responsibilities more, they did gain a closer bond. Dick would put Damian in line (besides when bad writers were too afraid to make Damian seem like he’s in the wrong fully), sometimes even the hard way, and could be very proud of him. They aren’t big bro little bro like how some current writers act for pandering purposes. But they did grow to be close, even if Damian’s naturally really emotionally distant. Dick always wanted the best for Damian, even if he couldn’t always handle it the right way or knew what to do. He was a guy in his early to mid 20s with the responsibilities of reraising a 10 year old kid that was raised and abused by a cult, who can blame him.

Damian

I’m kind of just getting Damian out of the way, because to be frank, he’s been a really crappily written character since his origin, because he personality just absolutely switches between every writer, and he’s just so badly written that way.

But I’ll go off of what I believe to be what his writer wanted, since that’s the most accurate you can get.

Damian was raised and abused in a cult. That dictates a lot of how he thinks.

He was not close to his mother (which is out of character for Talia, and they later switched that after the reboot, but to be frank if Talia was always in-character Damian wouldn’t exist as we know him. He’d be a total different person and character). And he seemed to despise the way his dad goes about things. He seemed very indifferent and had his mood set to angry in general when he first met.

Which made it all the weirder when an issue later Damian seems to want his parents to be together, despite making it clear he doesn’t even like or think much of either one of them at all.

He was also very entitled, because despite being treated as an experiment some of the time, he was also treated as a prince the other half of the time. He thought the world was his, and he deserved everything.

He nearly killed Tim because he thought he deserved being Robin, as Tim was just adopted and not a “real” son. Seemingly he thought that was what he had to do to have his dad accept him and treat him as he thought he should.

He also seems to think he’s above Jason as well.

He’s also shown as sexist and homophobic.

He was brash and reckless about everything. Had a talented in just about everything just because of how he was raised, and goes off on his own to do stuff, because I assume he thinks everyone else holds him back.

After Dick though, Damian learned to not be a murderer (which I also think he might’ve learned before cause he wants to live with Bruce, It’s a little weird and not given enough time to actually be developed fully in an easy to digest way. Which is another reason why I think he’s such a poorly written character), also more reserved, and reckless.

As he was originally intended, he was very tall and not cute. His height being around 5′2 to 5′4 at age 10. Meaning he was an inch taller than Tim was at 13 when Damian was 10 off of that first one, and only an inch shorter than Tim at the age he  met him, where Tim was 17 going on 18. It may not be drawn that way, but you also have to remember this is 00s and beyond era DC Comics were Tim despite being described as looking 12 got drawn as big as Dick sometimes. Don’t always use the art to go off of certain information. I say he wasn’t intended to be cute, because there’s a scene were he was at a gala, where a woman clearly wanting to gold-dig Gotham City’s most eligible Bachelor Bruce Wayne by getting close to her son, but she immediately backed away when she saw him.

Which sounds harsh, but Damian’s also basically the “anti-Robin”, he was everything a Robin wasn’t meant to be and he was intended to just die and that’s it. Hence why he was with Dick to keep the Batman and Robin dynamic intact, just in reverse. As you can see, they completely forgot what made Damian interesting when his character gained some consistency with his creator.

Damian’s development was that he grew a actual caring heart even if he still carried the generally same personality. He was dismissive of people, sexually harassed Steph, was generally anti-social-esque. 

And honestly because every writer after (even the one everyone seems to think is his best writer, which I massively agree times a billion and infinite more) just kept reverting him, again and again, even when they wrote stories with character development, it was gone again. And applied a whole bunch of traits that aren’t like Damian in the slightest, so if you pay attention. Ya can tell Damian’s not Damian, he’s literally not even a shell of his self. They just painted another one to look kind of like him, and even then they don’t do that because he freaking looks completely different some of the time. They botched him so much.

But that was the main thing about Damian. 

I think one reason he got close to Dick and no one else was because Damian from his origin (no matter how poorly written they showed it), always wanted to have a proper parent. Which it seemed he could never have. And Dick grew to serve that purpose, as Dick was the one teaching him lessons, and making sure he was actually safe.

But of course later on DC Comics literally forgot everything that was letting him slowly become a better character. So that sucks.

I partially came into this fandom because of Damian. So when I actually got to read him, I was so freaking miserable after. I genuinely wanted to like him so bad, even voicing that to people I was chatting too as I read the comics, but I literally just couldn’t see why anyone cared for his comics. I don’t think any of them are fully well-written.

But it did help me grasp what Damian’s suppose to be like as I could tell what he’s suppose to be and not suppose to be, much like how I learned about Tim’s actual personality vs the one writers that don’t care about him write.

Steph

Just doing this one to get a more negatively centered one out of the way, because I struggle to find any personality traits I deem actually likable when put under context.

Because she’s full of her self, reckless, cynical, more or less sexually harassed Tim, kissing him against his wishes (and before ya say Tim did that first. it’s a little less offensive when Tim didn’t do it sexually or romantically. That was just for a dumb trope. A reward kiss. It’s still gross, but it’s a different context that’s less directly offensive), goes behind people’s backs sometimes, can be emotionally abusive, and shows signs of physically abusive.

So I don’t exactly find her super likable. And her spot in the Bat-Family was so contrived, that often nowadays I just don’t pay attention her anymore, but in fairness a lot of that’s just cause she has crazy stans that start fights that were barely there, be hypocritical, and group bully folks. So it’s relatively hard for me to wanna look at her these days.

But to be more specific before she seems like an actual freaking demon woman or what ever. Some of that doesn’t come across as bad compared to what it could be. Besides the emotional abuse, that was just a thing and the comics and people just elected to ignore it even though that was written by her creator.

She’s reckless in a way where she clearly doesn’t have proper training to make sure no one or herself gets hurt. She’s been shown causing herself to get hurt or underestimate stuff. She also doesn’t listen to people that know more about what they do, and she usually relies on luck to get by.

She’s full of herself, because she more or less says she’s an adrenaline junkie, and might just be beating up bad guys because she finds it really fun and exciting. She likes the thrill. And tries to put a title of super hero on herself sometimes, because she tries to seem heroric as she does it. She also does it to make up for her dad, which is more admirable, but behavior wise and focus wise it’s more pinned on her just being an adrenaline junkie.

She also just constantly just flirt with Tim even when he didn’t want it. Which is what sexual harassment is. She also kissed him for her own satisfaction twice, once nearly getting them both killed cause people were shooting at them, and another as them and other people were close to freezing to death because they were stuck under snow. That kind of behavior able to be under sexual assault given the context for her kisses was just for herself. Even the time she tried to say it was to make up for Tim’s reward kiss, she quickly makes it obvious it was just because she’s very sexually attracted to him.

She also just nearly lets criminals die a lot because “What’s one more life”, and seems to not care much for the lesson of not killing, specifically her dad. Like she still has the moral standard not to kill, but compared to the others it’s not one she takes as serious. She learned her lesson on being cynical, but it’s still ingrained in her personality.

I also have a whole very long post on why her relationship with Tim doesn’t work, and how she was abusive. I don’t feel like going over that again but that’s a thing.

Besides Tim she has no real relationship with the others besides Cass, which is another relationship I don’t fully understand, because Steph borderline insults her, and Cass thinks she gets in the way so much she just fractures Steph’s jaw to knock her out. They gave them some admittedly cute moments, but it’s never felt right to me. Always felt forced and pandery, but it’s a thing. They’ve played tag each other, and talked about how both of their parents are abusive.

She also had one with in Batgirl, but the best I can describe that is, she helps Steph so she doesn’t hurt herself, and she can be pretty gruff sometimes, but is also caring. it’s just kind of a been there done that sort of thing.

A lot of Batgirl is sort of forced. Bat-Family has reasonable criticisms of her, writer does something to make them more unlikable so readers still like Steph, Steph proves them wrong, they respect her. It’s a formula for a few stories in her Batgirl run.

People have also said her and Damian have a sibling relationship, but I don’t agree with that. Damian sexually harassed her and kept looking at her boobs. Damian had a crush on her, but he was also a stubborn entitled jerk to her. Steph just got back at Damian by making him dress as a normal kid to embarrass him, and when she saw Damian never played before got him to jump on a bouncy castle. Besides generic banter that’s about it. And given Damian’s personality, they never did anything like that bouncy castle thing again. It’s a really big stretch to call that sibling-like. And even the stuff you could stretch is still doesn’t pay attention to the Damian talking about her boobs constantly thing. Parts of it was just pandery, as a lot of that Batgirl run was.

So I don’t overall have a good opinion of her. She’s perseverance and doesn’t give up, and won’t take no for an answer, but given the context it’s not in a good way besides saving Tim’s and others lifes a few times.

Babs

Despite having read her a lot I don’t know her a lot, because she’s typically always the other character in things. The lady that gets the information.

So I only know a few things about her.

She has the perseverance and won’t take no traits, but in a more positive context. She has no use of her legs but that doesn’t stop her from fighting crime and helping people.

She’s a serious, and mature personality. Every case is very seriously to her, besides a few Tim got into because they were just very goofy.

She can also joke a lot. She has a very teasing personality in her as well. Especially with Tim, she seemed to find Tim really cute and loved teasing him.

I pretty much only have panels of her and Tim besides a rare few maybe, cause as I said she’s mostly a side character helping out.

I have read Birds of Prey but that was possible a year or two ago, and I didn’t really pay attention so I’m not as sure.

She’s very leaderly, and will direct the traffic so to say. She’s a magnificent detective and hacker. Stands up for herself. Inquisitive. Her mind always seems to be thinking of the next thing to think about.

She’s a character I can’t talk about as well without it being one dimensional.

Cass

Cass is another character I don’t have the best grasp on but been trying to learn because she’s probably my second favorite Batkid even if I don’t understand her as strongly. But I do get a lot of her basic personality, and a bit of the nuances, even if I’m not ultra confident on it yet.

She’s quirky, she knows how to tease, but she can also be a bit objective based unless she’s bored it seems, like she does watch TV, but when she has a goal she will not stop until the goal is done. She’s a fully compassionate person as well, she sees little kid needing help, she helps little kid.

Also given her upraising she can be more socially oblivious than anyone else, even Tim. She’s walked around an apartment she was sharing with others butt naked. I think she accidentally flirted with Babs (not a shippy thing, it’s a, Cass said a thing she didn’t understand thing), because she couldn’t tell the difference between a platonic thing and cheesy romantic thing as she watched TV. 

She doesn’t always listen. She will just beat by her own drum unless she believes in something someone else said more.

Given her mind wasn’t raised to be socializing, a lot of this stuff makes sense and is kind of obvious when you think about it.

Cass can also be very stubborn when she has a goal, even when it’s against someone else’s wishes.

She’s mostly been a loner by herself, but she has grown to seem to genuinely like having company around to bond with.

She’s been shown being protective of Tim. Literally carrying him out of a fight zone.

Babs’s is more or less her mom.

Dick and Steph’s I’ve described before.

Distant with Alfred, but Alfred will occasionally drop by to help out. They’re still carrying if they aren’t as connected as others.

Not gonna lie I can’t remember her relationship with Bruce.

But that’s some of the basics and slight nuances of Batgirl. I’m still in the early part of learning about her. So I’ll probably understand her more later on. I genuinely really like her though. I like how she isn’t a one dimensional character like some writers make her out to be. She’s genuinely really fun to read.

Jason

I actually know Jason quite a bit because I made a big long post about his time as Robin (post-crisis only, not counting the scripts written before the 80s reboot, or anything inconsistent).

He’s anti-authority, angry, cusses, smokes, violent, murderous tendencies, aggressive, but also has a genuine heroic spirit, is appreciative of the opportunities he was able to have, loved being able to learn especially, had insecurities, and a lot of his violence was in the name of being a more aggressive way of justice. He’d never hurt an innocent.

A lot of this is explain by the fact he was raised on the streets more or less.

When ever he got especially violent was because of a bad guy hurting or killing an innocent or committing abusive acts of any sort. He probably seen a lot of bad stuff on the streets and doesn’t handle it.

He’s pretty decently cynical because of thinking that’s the best way to deal with it.

He was also moody, but after his upbringing that’s to be expected, and unlike what some thinks, Batman was actually understanding and did his best to help Jason back even if he didn’t get it as first.

Jason isn’t a villain, he is a pure anti-hero, he wants to help, he loves to help, when he feels like he should help he does. He just has his own way of doing it that lots don’t agree with.

When he became the Red Hood, all of this stuff just became amplified because of the traumatic event he went through and the feeling of not being avenged and abandoned again.

Where as before he’d nearly kill people, he outright does now with even left empathy. He had a sack of decapitated head once just so other criminals knew he wasn’t playing around. 

However his moodiness came out in different ways. He was actually a very calm, chill personality as the Red Hood, until his traumas got poked at, where he’d go back into his angry bitter ways, but to a more unstoppable way. He’d be more violent, more angry, more inconsolable, more unstable.

As the Red Hood, he is a very far ahead planner and tactition. People always call Tim the planner, but to me Jason is the planner and tactition of the group. He had a large plan that took a while to do, but caused him to accomplish a lot in a short time. Tim does it in the moment or moments before and does a fine enough job, but he isn’t a good leader. Dick is a good planner tactition and leader, but it can also just be shortly before he does something. Jason thinks very far ahead and how people will react and think, how to get under their skin, what will piss them off, what will give him what he once etc.

When he’s not unstable, he’s calm and collected, and is always trying to get under people’s skin. Not in a large over the top way, but just a bit. In an almost charming sort of way. A sly way. He pokes buttons when he’s calm and collected.

As to be expected his relationship with the Bat-Family is complicated. He’s mostly just in the Bat-Family almost purely because of his past in it, more than what he is currently. He’s more of a loner type that will get help when needed, but until the New 52 said otherwise, he’s not much of a team player as he mostly works by himself.

Bat-Family wants him to get better, but at the same time I think they recognize it’s gonna take a lot for Jason to get better, and since Jason is dangerous it creates a lot of overwhelming feelings. Bruce is upset at himself and is almost grieving Jason all over again, Dick has regrets he never had a chance to know him till then, and Tim’s relationship has been so varied and never really felt right, I’d say  most likely Tim would be scared of Jason, and upset at him. Jason was a Robin that killed. Going off of how Tim reacted to thinking Batman killed, he’d probably be genuinely miserable at the thought of what Jason became, and be distant from him.

Jason is sly and hard to read unless he’s emotional.

Duke

Duke is the hardest to say anything for, because he’s the newest, most obscure (even tho he is gaining quick prominence), and so therefore has less to go off of. Not helped by a lot of writers making him very two dimensional at best a lot of the time.

He is a natural leader, a dare-devil, very willing to put his life on the line at any time, and passionate and almost stubborn about helping people. He wants to save people, and he’s always wanting to help, because he wants to make his neighborhood a better place.

And that’s almost all I can say, because having read his mini-series he doesn’t have many character traits, and WE ARE ROBIN, where he was introduced and I got that from was short lived.

He’s only with the other Batkids when they really wanna pander, so I can’t even accurately say anything, and the few times you could make a guess it’s not in-character for the other. So he’s just hard to tell. Besides Cass.

I think he’d naturally get along with Bruce, Dick, and Tim, and he’s shown being closest to Cass in the Outsiders series. Considering Cass a sister I believe. They console in each other, care about each other, worry about each other, and look after each other. That’s the closest relationship he has.

But it’s hard to say a lot for him.

AGES:

To be blunt I can’t say with full accuracy because there’s so many inconsistencies plus reboots.

But I’ll go into oldest to youngest, because some don’t realize some ages.

Dick, was 21 when Tim was 13

Jason was 18 when Tim was 15

Cass is the same age if not older than Jason

Steph is two years older than Tim

I believe Duke is around the same age as Steph

and Tim and Damian’s ages off of that is pretty obvious.

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Sorry this is so freaking long, but like I said, just DM me. I’m about to watch a movie, but I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. I at least hope this helped some, and if it’s too long, just message me because it’ll probably be less overwhelming then.