#people arent just men and women

[nururu]

man I am so over ppl being terfs and listening to terfs and being brainwashed by terfs and not questioning it for one single solitary second. and not caring to educate themselves when someone calls them out for it. it's very obvious when anti feminist rhetoric comes from men, but people trust it and take it as bible when it comes from women when in reality those women are supporting inequality and anti feminism just as much as sexist men. they might not be making as big of an effect, but the energy is the same. they're holding hands. I feel like trans men understand the intricacies of this situation the most and maybe if y'all wanna know more you should follow some trans men who talk about terfism and transandrophobia and how hatred of men is a violent anti feminist psyop

[mercury-lurks]

hghhhhh... sometimes being transmasc is so alienating. i see all those posts about forcefemming the entire planet or how the world would be better if everyone was a girl and it kind of hurts. i get that people are just making jokes they find funny and im not mad at them or anything, but it kind of feels like they're telling transmascs and other non-women that it'd be cooler if they detransitioned. idk it might be a me problem but ive seen far too many people get mad at transmen for being men to not feel the sting anyway. i like being a man! there's just a lot of pressure out there to... not be one. and that sucks.

[snortoborto]

I'm so over the victimhood complex of feminine cis women.

Gender diversity isn't a threat. Diversity in gender presentation isn't a threat.

Femininity is not equivalent to purity and innocence.

Femininity can still be harmful when enforced on people who don't want it. Women and feminine people can still do harm. Femininity can still be weaponized, especially white femininity.

[animentality]

In response to your post about radfems and men, a few years ago I started going down the radfem rabbit hole, a lot of this came from being in a community of men who actually /were/ psychopaths, along with having a father and grandfather who were too. I have PPD as well, so seeing these men act this way and having radfems whispering in my ear "All men want to kill you, all men want to kill you" was DETERIORATING me like acid. I cannot describe to you the hell I was living in each day due to paranoia eating away at me. It felt like my own spirit was a chain link fence turning into rust.

Then I met my husband, and he completely changed my life. And yes I know women can save themselves, we aren't all damsels in distress, but I honestly /was/ too bad off to just pull myself out of it. Since fear of men was the biggest thing killing me from the inside out, a man coming along and showing me that I can both trust people AND at least some men, seriously subdued a massive chunk of my rage, hatred and fear. And he really goes above and beyond too! Every problem I have had he has helped me to fix, along with showing me how to do things myself. Some people may not like that it was a man who "rescued" me, but I don't owe it to anyone to be an idyllic girl power success story, I owe it to myself and to our son to not be a terrified wreck.

I mean I have always suspected that radfems and terfs were like this.

Like my going theory is that if you believe men are irredeemable monsters who can only hurt other people all the time, you clearly don't have good relationships, with anyone at all.

That kind of mistrust of your fellow human beings comes from a well of hurt and paranoia that you're not addressing properly.

I'm glad you found someone to help and love you, though. And I don't think it's anti feminist to need someone to rescue you either.

what's so wrong with being saved, no matter who or what does it?

nice metaphor with the chain link fence btw. that'll live on in my mind for a bit.

[transsexula]

No. Google. I'm actually looking specifically for trans MEN. I know a lot of articles talk about trans women. But I'm specifically looking for stuff about my subset of the trans community. Why the fuck are trans men so hyper-invisible.

[krispiecake]

tell me why i can hear another tenants fucking music from my flat. HE DOESNT EVEN LIVE IN MY BUILDING. HE LIVES IN A COMPLETELY SEPARATE BUILDING ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND I CAN HEAR HIS MUSIC FROM MY FLAT. MY FLAT WHICH IS IN A DIFFERENT SEPARATE BUILDING.

[axolotlclown]

I watched Shubble's vod talking about abuse a few days ago and she said something that stuck with me. She told a story where her abuser bit her really hard in front of their friends. She yelped in pain and they laughed.

Men, when we see our friends make jokes about hurting women, don't laugh. Make it uncomfortable. It's not funny. This isn't a joke. You may not think your brothers and friends are abusers, but it doesn't mean that any of this is funny.

I'm certain their friends didn't think there was anything going on behind the scenes, but they should have. I could never even imagine joking about bringing harm to my partner. I'm sure most of them couldn't either. We need to stay vigilant and critical of the ways we carry ourselves around others. What does our laughter signal to the women around us?

My brothers, hurting women is not a joke. Don't laugh.

[iminaworldofpureimagination]

its hard to give any criticism of helluva boss a flicker of consideration because 99 percent of the times its just I hate the creator they're sexist/homphobic to women? its not developed much but what about Vag/Charlie? they do exist as a lesbian couple.. and really no one was developed much in s1.. it was more plot focused than character focused.

but its bad writing because they don't write stellas as a victim when its obvious she is the real victim because cheating is always bad and abuse is excusable when the man cheats on you. 99 percent of criciism i notice is I hate STolas I hate Viz.. she hates women. (I myself could never forgive cheating but i also wouldnt abuse my husband either. Stella was a shitty wife thats just facts)

but thats not criticism. its a feeling of hate towards the fictional male character and the creator..

It be like me saying I hate Beatrice Horseman and so its bad that she was given a sympathic backstory and the craetor supprts mothers abusing their kids in real life. ergo bojack is a terrible show. cancel the creator.. . which would be riduclous to claim .

Loona/Via/ Stella/Millie are lacking in character development ... it was given all to Stolas/Blitz/Fizz and i can get being annoyed that the women lack development cause they do. but they're not bad Women.. they're good woman and people want to say viz hates women when she has one Female Villian and like 5 male villians

most criticism alwas boils down to I hate Viz/Stolas.. which just isnt criticism.

[leah2eroes]

"european trans women on this site talking about their petty little problems with "transmisogynists" like. fucking excuse me???? im a TRANS MAN living in AMERICA do you even give a shit about the shit thats happening over here??? you are NOT allowed to voice ANY of your lived experiences if i decide that they make ME look bad!!! this is INFIGHTING! this is MISANDRY!! now is NOT the time for you fucking evil tra- uh.,, trans radfems, to be WHINING about how we 'oppress you'. we don't. now shut up and let the MEN talk."

-actual post i saw on my tl just now (obviously paraphrased with key subtext lol)

[comphetkoncass]

i was logged out for a week and life was so peaceful. i read books by and about women. and when i read comics, i only read comics that prominently featured women. and they were fun!

then i logged back in and ventured beyond my peer reviewed 'i swear on my life that this has women in it who matter to the plot' bubble and. well. can you guess what i found. or rather. who i didnt find. can you guess

[good-to-drive]

"Yoko wasn't a nice person" neither were the beatles....

[transmandrake]

I wrote out a longer version of this that made no sense but. Trans people arguing on whether theyre seen as their chosen gender by others is such a tiresome thing.

Like yeah I do agree that trans women arent seen as men and often are seen as women

But I do not think this is a good thing or that thats a core component of transphobia and transmisogyny specifically

Because

1. the corollary 'so trans men are seen as men' is simply not true. Trans men largely are not seen as men, or even women imo but often as women.

2. Transphobes, largely, when they see trans women as women... Do not. See women as people, or worthy of true personhood. Yes even if said transphobe is a woman.

Transmisogyny I do not like as a word because I think all transphobia is misogynistic. If it wasnt, trans men would be seen as men largely. But they are not.

All trans people are seen as women in typical transphobia, because 'woman' is lower on the ranks than 'man', and therefore are placed as low as possible, where possible.

More specifically, trans people are seen as inhuman, where possible. This often means being seen as women. Because misogyny.

This is also why, even though I, generally, really like the *productive* discussions the concept of transmisogyny and transandrophobia have fostered, I dont think they are useful terms, because all transphobia is an intersection of sexism of all flavours. That is what it is. If men were seen as lesser, trans people would be seen as men. And, while fringe, yes, and not systemic, people who see men as lesser see trans people as men. That's all.

Digging deeper into it, pretty much nobody has discussed enbyphobia as the real intersection of transphobia. Trans people are seen as outside the binary, and this does not contradict people who say there are only two genders at all... because gender is a piece of humanity. To these people trans people are not human enough.

That might sound like im contradicting myself but it isnt. Whichever gender is closest to inhumanity is what people will see trans people as. There are two genders, lesser, and human.

This is also why it causes so many arguments, and why they arent productive. If a trans man is insisting theyre seen as a woman, and a trans woman is insisting theyre seen as a woman, they are not at odds. They are in agreement that they are percieved as our current societies lesser category.

I don't think insisting a trans woman is seen as a man is transphobic, and insisting a trans man is seen as a man is decidedly not gender-affirming, because, while fringe, lots of trans people are, whether theyre aware or not, are in sexist circles, who do, in fact, see men as lesser in personhood. Sure, misandry isnt systemically a thing, but sexism is not purely targeted at women.

This is also why I think the 'Trans X are X' phrase is not useful or truthful. Insisting a trans woman is a woman to many peoples ears is affirming a trans woman's lesserness. Insisting a trans man is a man is often a weapon against them expressing their multigendered experience.

Trans men and women are not always men or women. They are always people. Worthy of personhood. Insist upon this above all.

I think more productive action can be done if all this is kept in mind, and we stop eating ourselves in finger-pointing.

[ayegomorrah]

It is important to keep in mind when talking about intra community trans issues that. There are 5 of us in total despite it not feeling like it because we find each other. And even if youre a trans ally, you probably do know more trans people than the average joe, for a reason.

We often dont have anyone other than other trans people so discussions on transmisogyny, for example, do become important even under really dire circumstances because not socially isolating people becomes more and more important the more trans rights are stripped away. Especially if youre a young transmasc it becomes pretty important to recognize how your transition is used against trans women, and how different transphobic narratives are used to reinforce each other to cause material harm in the world. Similarly now its pretty important to start learning about other kinds of oppression to know how to protect more vulnerable trans people.

That being said, every discussion on trans issues (from trans people) is bound to be kind of fucked because we are marginalized af and under active threat constantly (whatever it might be) so every trans person has mental health issues and trauma and just general minority stress. And those make people reactive? So i dont personally love every single thing some other trans person says but I also dont have the energy to give a shit about every opinion i think doesnt describe my personal reality. Trans women dont have to be experts in my personal history for me to try not to add insult to injury. Same with fandom stuff, in the middle of everything the small things reflect bigger things.

Internet makes this extra hard because how you navigate the world as a trans person is different depending on your gender but also transition status as well as locality and the medical and legal regime controlling your body. Also. Sometimes it's just luck (or larger trends in the world/society/locality/whateverrr) what your local island of a trans community is like. Just. Benefit of a doubt, please.

[miss--river]

.

[haewangsong]

About this whole situation

i feel like the least you can do

is to just... not say you're going to keep enjoying the game.

Enjoy the game, no one can hold you accountable for that, but the moment you're posting on social media about the fact you're going to just ignore everything and support or say that project moon did their best you're just harming the artist they unfairly fired. I know it's hard. I know how devastating it is but at least,

the best thing you can do if you cannot bring yourself to stop playing- is to stay silent.

Also just for some context: (it gets kind of long but long story short. PJ Moon did not make this choice to protect the artist, but they did it because it is the easiest thing.)

Korean women that are angry are angry because this has happened before- in 2016, a VA that wore a t-shirt that was associated with feminism went under attack to the same group of DC incels claiming she's a feminist and should be fired for that.

What the company did- was to fire her, creating a whole whirlpool of situation that got other women targeted and fired. I'm pretty sure the VA here in question got blacklisted from the gaming company.

There are sources revealing that from 2016 to 2020, over 14 women got fired because of similar accusation, and I'm not even sure it counts freelancers that were just silently put off to work.

The National Human Rights Commission of Korea, for fucks sake, has made a testament on 2020 in how the censorship on feminism happening in the gaming industry is a hate crime.

So what Project Moon did here was, it was to do the easiest and most inhumane choice possible, which was to fire a female artist over a similar controversy, bringing the nightmare-ish situation that happened in 2016 back all over again. In 2023. That's why people are disappointed. That's why Korean women feel threatened by this situation. Saying that this was all to protect Vellmori is an insult to her, and to the other female workers who wrongly loose their jobs over situations like these.

The hilarious thing over this whole situation? Every single company that has fired their workers like that has fumbled over themselves! The company and the game that fired the VA got ultimately labeled as a feminist game and lost its male customers too- because they had to keep firing people the moment incels didn't like them, until they couldn't. So incels are saying the game went down because of feminism. Another game? The representative is on fire because to no one's (except for the incels) surprise they fired all of the workers in the project because the game wasn't making any money anymore- making these fired workers reveal the fact that they've been mistreated, overworked, and abused over years. That is two example of many! But what about the games that did the extremely brave and difficult decision to just ignore the incels and go on with their game?

They're fine. They're okay. They had their lows just when the incels attacked, but Korean chauvinist pigs are just so childish that either they decide that it isn't fun to dox people anymore, or comfort themselves saying that oh well, they aren't that feminist after all or, well it's too fun so I don't care it's feminist! This are the pigs PJ Moon cave in. There are games that are boring as hell from smaller companies that survived and are still surviving because their customers are loyal, because the customers know that at least they won't fire their workers over stupid reasonings, the bare minimum!

So just- stop saying you're going to support the game- at least please don't for a while. I can't stop you from playing, but this is something PJ Moon has to take on themselves or this will create the same nightmare-ish situation that happened in 2016 all over again. Don't enable them. Stop giving them the message this is okay. Stop saying it was to support Vellmori, because ruining a young artist's career by telling her she's fired in a phone call after 11pm is not protection. It will never be.

[geoffrey]

the seperation of lesbians and gay men is a travesty. "why are there so many historic gay bars and only like a handful of lesbian bars in the whole country" why are being gay and lesbian not the same thing in this context. you dont need to fuck everyone at the bar and it is a problem that needs to be addressed if these spaces arent mutually hospitable. and this applies to most gay/lesbian spaces imo