#pd subtypes

[hauntedselves]

Subtypes of SzPD

See also: Millon's subtypes; more on languid SzPD; Greenberg's subtypes.

From Zachary Wheeler, Treatment of Schizoid Personality [dissertation] (2013)

[discountdyke]

its crazy that people think having multiple personality disorders makes you more dangerous or fucked up bc like, the more abuse and trauma you suffer as a child, the more symptoms of PDs you will check off bc your behavior becomes so disordered in order to survive. having more than one PD (having several PDs) is common among childhood abuse survivors. PD comorbidity is crazy high and, ultimately, PDs are a way of categorizing symptoms for diagnostics and treatment.

it has nothing to do with your character, your worth as a human being, and your ability to heal. you adapted to survive your abuse. you can adapt to survive life after it.

[avpdpossum]

i might try to do a deep dive into the conflicted avoidant subtype at some point, and maybe the self-deserting subtype after that. every time i read the descriptions of them, i’m struck by how accurately they describe me, and i wish there was more info about the subtypes out there

[bonefall]

are there any bb!cats with schizophrenia or that regularly experience psychosis? people absolutely suck about mental illness so like. seeing characters like me going thru life and being treated like people and not monsters for something out of their control never fails to put a smile on my face! thank you for all the research and effort you put into making sure your disabled cats are not only believable but human. pd: cinderheart with bpd is an extremely based headcanon

Not yet but it's on my radar, plus NPD. The reason why I feel so unflappably confident with BPD is because I know and love people who have it, and I hate that I don't see any characters who are like them! So I feel like I'm really good at handling it, and knowing what's wanted in portrayals of it. It feels very personally important to me.

Pair that with the fact I write BB!Clans as canonically struggling with ableism and all these being so heavily stigmatized irl, I've gotta be REALLY careful with NPD and psychosis. I'm less connected to them so personally and I don't want to accidentally strike a nerve, you get me?

That said... I got an ask a while back that I'd been thinking about a lot, basically asking me about how Clan Culture would see psychosis in the first place. I've actually always been fascinated by how deeply schizophrenia is affected by the culture of the afflicted, so I've been idly thinking about that for a while without sharing those thoughts.

OH WAIT hangon let me explain some stuff about Schizophrenia and psychosis for people in the audience!!

Schizophrenia used to be diagnosed in subtypes before 2013. This is no longer accurate! A lot like Autism, it's a spectrum of symptoms that affect people differently. It's a cognitive disorder that messes with rational and organized thinking, and that can express in all sorts of ways.

One of the symptoms is hallucinations. It's The Famous symptom of it, but it's not actually something you NEED to have to be Schizophrenic. Not all people who are having hallucinations or delusions are Schizophrenic, either! I want to include an OCD character of some kind who experiences some mild auditory hallucinations, actually. The type where it's just random mumbling.

Delusions and hallucinations aren't the same thing Delusions are false beliefs and hallucinations are false experiences. An example of a delusion is, "If I don't click my pen three times, my family will die." An example of a hallucination is hearing voices.

PEOPLE WITH PSYCHOSIS ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO BE THE VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE THAN TO COMMIT IT Feel like this is common knowledge in this space, and especially within my own following since I make a lot of art about mental illness and awareness, but it's always worth repeating.

So anyway

If you compare psychosis between cultures, you actually end up seeing VERY different expressions of the hallucinations. For example, in some cultures, voice hallucinations tend to say things that are negative or abusive, while other cultures hear significantly more positive, playful voices.

This doesn't mean that they're always less distressing. For example, the study above points out that Nigerian students (reported to hear lots of playful hallucinations) experience as much distress as Dutch students (tend to experience negative, abusive voices) during their psychotic episodes.

Still, there does seem to be a correlation with "less distress" and cultures that encourage psychotic people to see their hallucinations as positive, personal things. Even more interestingly, distress seems to be correlated with income and individualism in a culture.

But it doesn't stop there, the findings are fascinating.

Delusions of grandeur are rare in societies that discourage that sort of social mobility, reflecting social values.

Cultures that believe religious experiences are specific experiences-- like certain smells, temperatures, or sounds, will see those reflected in psychotic episodes

Yet, "voices" seem to be something seen across ALL cultures studied. Though some have more prevalence of random sounds and mumbling than others, they all share some expression of "voices that say stuff."

SO all that to say-- if I include psychosis it's definitely going to be trying to take the culture of each Clan into account, and I need to do a lot more research into what sorts of things people with schizophrenia and various types of psychosis want to see more often.

[mischiefmanifold]

How Do My Autism, PDs, and DID Interact/Intertwine?

Disorders mentioned in this post: autism spectrum disorder (ASD), attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), tourette syndrome (TS), fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD), dissociative identity disorder (DID), antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and schizotypal personality disorder (STPD)

(This post was requested by a mutual, I hope you find this (somewhat) helpful and I apologize for taking a million years to post it 🙃)

I have a whole host of disorders, pretty much all of which affect my personality, identity, and way I interact with the world around me. A lot of people look at the combinations of disorders I have and tell me I can't possibly have them (this is especially popular with autism and ASPD, as well as autism and STPD), when I do in fact have them and they suck ass.

To begin with, since I have DID, my other disorders vary drastically in symptoms from alter to alter. It is important to note that individuals with DID will likely only be diagnosed with other disorders alongside DID if most or all of the frequently fronting alters show symptoms and those symptoms impair the whole. Disorders like autism, Tourette, ADHD, and FASD are system-wide disorders due to the nature of their development. Personality disorders are usually diagnosed at the discretion of the therapist or psychiatrist who is doing the diagnosis.

My combination of autism, NPD, and ASPD resulted in an individual who lacks essentially all empathy, is very isolated, and is really sensitive to perceived slights or criticisms.

I have the psychopathic subtype of ASPD, which means that even if I didn't have NPD I would have narcissistic traits. Alongside heightened NPD traits, I am also more prone to violence and aggression (it is important to note that most psychopaths and individuals with ASPD are not criminals or extremely aggressive). Features of psychopathy that I display are typical antisocial behaviors (disregard for societal norms and rules, essentially), increased aggression and violence, lack of empathy and remorse/guilt, and manipulative and deceitful behaviors.

When it comes to autism and ASPD, the only real trait my presentation has in common is a lack of empathy. Communication problems can arise for individuals who have both disorders, but for different reasons (my ASPD communication problems are almost exclusively related to my disregard for others and lack of remorse; while my autistic communication problems stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of social norms, sarcasm, facial expressions, gestures, and figurative language). Individuals who have ASPD will not experience any developmental delays like autism (delayed speech, social ineptitude, etc.).

My ASPD and NPD go hand-in-hand pretty well. The earliest memory I have of exhibiting antisocial behaviors is at age 8 when I would repeatedly steal candy from my friend's school locker because I felt I deserved it more than her; the theft just escalated from there. I was very good at getting people angry with me so I could take out my anger on them.

I don't feel that my autism and NPD really have that much in common, honestly.

If you would like to learn more about ASPD, its history, and the psychopathic subtype of ASPD, please visit this site: https://psychopathyis.org/what-is-a-psychopath/

[sillystringsimpsons]

Sorry if this is really broad, but what are some details about Legs in The Good Ones Au? Like I’m really interested in his relationship with Louie, and his BPD headcanon; as someone who suspects she has BPD, it’s really cool to see rep in characters, even if it’s a headcanon :D

PLEASE READ CONTENT AND TRIGGER WARNINGS IN TAGS.

this was a very high effort post, interactions are hugely appreciated <3

Awesome question!

In terms of Legs and Louie’s relationship, I have a Louie-focused fanfic I’m working on that really explores their relationship within the AU, so I won’t go into it. But I’d love to discuss his borderline personality disorder in a bit more depth!

To start, here's a vent sketch I made a few days ago that I feel is pretty relevant here.

[The full discussion of Legs' BPD is beneath the cut :>]

Before I get into this, I think it’s important to recognise that BPD is significantly more prevalent in people assigned female at birth, as well as typically presenting differently; despite this, however, the core traits of borderline remain, and neither sex struggles more or less than the other.

Also, BPD is a very complex disorder. In its nature, it is constantly shifting and changing; I live with discouraged borderline and even I struggle to put to words what my experience as a whole is like; some information here might seem a little contradictory, and some traits I discuss may seem more frontal to Legs' character than they actually are. At the end of the day, he really is just a guy living with a difficult and scary disorder, and I've done my best to capture and discuss that here.

AU LORE AROUND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH BPD

Maximus is not formally diagnosed with BPD, per se; at around age twenty-nine, following a severe depressive episode and a bender that was almost fatal (during which he also temporarily lost his position as caporegime), Louis essentially forced him to seek psychiatric help. Surprisingly, he opened up to the psychiatrist working his case - pretty much too emotionally exhausted from what he’d just been through to put up a fight - who immediately picked up on patterns in his behaviour indicative of borderline pd: instability in his relationships resultant of an intense fear of abandonment, frequent and drastic mood swings, a constantly shifting self-image, and most often mentioned by him, an ‘emptiness’ that he confessed to continually trying to overcome with substance abuse and other risky behaviours. In addition, he displayed a lot of archetypal traits of male borderline personality disorder, especially a penchant for sudden and explosive aggression. For a number of reasons, however (drifting away from therapy, the sex bias in BPD diagnosis, and him presenting some nonconvential traits for male BPD, such as high emotional awareness), he never really ended up progressing with a diagnosis past one or two preliminary screeners.

LEGS' BPD SUBTYPE

Self-destructive BPD, which is what Max has, is one of four commonly recognised subtypes of the disorder (the other three being discouraged (omg me!), impulsive, and petulant). These are generally quite loose groupings, not rigid classifiers: he obviously still has some traits from other subtypes (notably the perfectionism and withdrawal from close relationships exhibited in discouraged BPD), but I’ve classed him under self-destructive because of his strong internal self hatred that primarily manifests itself in self-destructive behaviours. Additionally, he is very adrenaline seeking: though he’s normally quiet and doesn’t appear to be much of a risk-taker, he’ll take subtle, calculated risks that often end him up in near-death situations. Max struggles with substance abuse (exhibiting functional alcoholism), as well as self-harm (often resorting to hitting himself until he bruises in private when he experiences any sort of intense emotional turmoil); both are borne of last-ditch attempts to ease the internal struggle he endures as a result of his personality disorder, and are also very characteristic of self-destructive BPD.

IS LOUIE LEGS' FP?

A favourite person, or an FP, is a phenomenon commonly observed in people with BPD: the relationship starts off healthy, but gradually grows toxic as the pwBPD becomes increasingly dependent on their FP and literally requires them and their attention to ensure their mood stays up. Without them, the pwBPD will often experience negative emotions so intense that they can even present themselves in suicidal ideations and threats. There is a lot of negativity online directed towards people with borderline from people who have been in relationships with them, because it is an extremely draining, and in extreme cases, traumatising experience to be a FP; this, however, is built on misunderstanding - it’s not a conscious action on the pwBPDs behalf, and with proper communication and boundary setting, it is very much possible to keep the relationship healthy and well-balanced. I just wanted to write this section to specify that Louis is NOT Maximus’ FP. Yes, their relationship is very often impacted negatively by his disorder, and Louie has been the subject of splitting (wherein a person with BPD characterises a person or event as either extremely good or extremely bad) more than enough times, but their relationship has never entered FP territory, and I don’t intend to write it as doing so. Legs has an almost big-brotherly role (symbolically, lol, as they have a really small age gap) and isn’t so much obsessed with Louie as he really cares about him and desires to look after and be there for him, which is essentially the opposite dynamic to the conventional pwBPD-FP relationship.

There's a lot more I could go into, but I think I'll keep it at this for now, and let any work I make featuring Legs speak for itself. If you have and specific questions, though, my asks and DMs are always open and I am a violent yapper; just shoot me a question and I'll be more than happy to elaborate.

[batmanego]

I’m going to be quite honest as someone that has run the psychiatric gauntlet for the last 7-ish years and in that time has had multiple potential diagnoses discussed with me to describe the same phenomenon, i think most diagnoses are fake and gay . to elaborate further i think that if a professional cannot describe the differences between schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, schizotypal pd, and schizoid pd without using the term “severity/prevalence of symptoms” then maybe it is better to describe those disorders as existing on a continuum of One disorder rather than creating arbitrary lines. maybe if the only difference in DID & the OSDD-1 subtypes is the type of amnesia and how “distinct” (What vague unhelpful wording!) different alters are, it should kind of all just be considered one disorder that has different presentations.

obviously there are things wrong with me im not saying that im mentally well and everyone is mentally well. being able to give labels to what is wrong with me is helpful for a number of reasons the least of which being that it’s nice to know that even though im crazy, im crazy in a way i can now describe to other people. but what i am saying is that if you open my skull there’s not gonna be a little receipt in there that says THIS PERSON HAS DID PTSD OCD SCHIZOTYPAL PD ETC ETC ETC ETC. all of these labels describe symptoms, often the Same symptoms. they’re not written in stone they’re just descriptors for phenomena. And that’s not even getting into how racialized a lot of diagnoses are or how what is paranoia for the white, sane, able-bodied cishet might be justified fear for anyone that doesn’t fit that description to a T.

and of course none of this makes any sense to anyone except me because one of the symptoms that is described by one of the labels applied to me is Disorganized thought and speech but that’s ok. just know that the point im making is that diagnosis is often atupid and i will always know myself better than anyone and that some pro-psych person that worships the Holy Psychiatrist is going to call me delusional for saying i know more about my brain than a doctor ^_^

[hauntedselves]

"In Trauma and Recovery, Herman expresses the additional concern that patients with CPTSD frequently risk being misunderstood as inherently 'dependent', 'masochistic', or 'self-defeating' [personality disorders], comparing this attitude to the historical misdiagnosis of female hysteria."

~ Wikipedia's CPTSD article

~ Judith Herman, Trauma and Recovery (2015), pp. 116-118.

Thank you to @/avoydant, who transcribed these images. The transcriptions have been added to the alt text.

[3liza]

We now extend that phenotype to apparent vulnerability to inflammatory muscle disease in a spectrum from JRA to fibromyalgia (FMS) and specific behavioral subsets of ADD, PTSD, and specific late onset neurological syndromes (FTD-PD and PPA). High and low risk FMS subsets can be defined using A1AT, MTHFR and APOE genotyping. Clinical diagnoses associated with A1AT polymorphisms included fibromyalgia, JRA/JIA, bipolar disorder, PTSD, primary progressive aphasia and FTDPD, but not most Alzheimer Disease subtypes. These results support an extended phenotype for A1AT mutation carriers beyond liver and lung vulnerability to selective advantages: ICE phenotype and disadvantages: fibromyalgia, affective disorders, and selected late onset neurological syndromes.

what

[manie-sans-delire-x]

What are some of the symptoms that fit some criteria.

There's a base criteria for having any personality disorder at all, and then theres specific subtypes of a personality disorder on top of that.

The first few pages here outlines ASPD and the base PD (page 1). I fit almost every single criteria, so I'll just post this instead of typing it all out.

[violentviolette]

Could what you've said about HPD not just as easily apply to ASPD being based on pathologising criminal behaviour? There's even talks about ASPD dxs being separated into subtypes of have and have not committed crimes (awful idea imo), research being done on criminal populations that do not even have ASPD and such makes it pretty evident in it's not moving away from its roots in modern day either. So do you think ASPD isn't a real diagnosis in the same way HPD isn't then and if not what do you feel the difference is?

in my opinion no, which just to bring things back into perspective i am just some idiot with a blog and while my opinions on these things is very much based on years of research and a degree and my own experience in the mental health field as a patient for 20+ years, the stuff i say should still be taken as things to consider and not like, hard immutable fact but my thoughts essentially boil down to, i think aspd and bpd are the two cluster b pd's that have merit to warrent their own disorders because they have a unique set of symptoms that is not covered under or explained by other diagnoses.i think they're the product of a unique neurotype (the biological component) + trauma during early childhood and development (the environmental component) and thus are both nuerodivergent and mental illnessness i think npd and hpd are different as both of their symptoms could be absorbed by combinations of other existing diagnosis and thus would be better served by being either gotten rid of, or given their own catagories within things like cptsd. i think hpd and npd are both the result of prolonged abuse and trauma and are abuse responses, and i do think they have merit to be their own unique subtypes of cptsd but i dont think they have the nuerological components that make aspd and bpd lifelong npd and hpd both respond much better to treatment, especially trauma recovery treatment, and are more likely to be fully manageable with proper treatment in ways that aspd and bpd are less likely to, at least in my annecdotal experience but again, people are very free to disagree with that or to think thats horseshit im not lobbying the dsm or anything im just giving my current thoughts. i could feel very differently in 2 or 5 years, especially since more research is being done and we gain better perspective and understanding of things

[voredere]

Do you have a source for the "people with NPD are more likely to successfully attempt suicide than any other PD, including BPD"?

(I support ppl with NPD and I hope I don't sound angry or hateful? I'd just like to see a source for that so I can read about it, esp the comparison to BPD suicide rate) (I also have PD's)

sure thing!

this is the main paper i was referencing when i wrote that post, but im gonna also drop some extra sources i found while looking it up again because this is a good opportunity

this paper also talks about the suicide risk, but it also talks about vulnerable subtype (which my post also talked about) and discusses the relationship between NPD and BPD, which may help explain why both PDs are so uniquely prone to suicidal behaviours.

this paper also compares the suicide rates between bpd and npd, and found that people with NPD are more likely to make multiple attempts than any other PD.

hope these are useful!

[variant-archive]

i've been scrambling to find flags/terms relating to all types of adhd, the same way ive seen a ton of flags for different ocd types/subtypes, same for other disorders (npd, specific delusion types, etc) i feel like it'd be great for people to have flags they can use to specify theyre type! if you could help find something like that id absolutely love it... /not forced

As far as being recognized by psychologists and co., there's only the three subtypes (primarily hyperactive, primarily inattentive aka me, and combined). There's also cognitive disengagement syndrome (formerly sluggish cognitive tempo) which is another attention disorder but not exactly an ADHD subtype, more like a parallel disorder of attention. My OCD subtype flags have all been subtypes that are recognized by clinicians so far. They can be found on NOCD which is a treatment and info site for OCD. There are also clinically recognized subtypes for personality disorders and delusions which is probs what you've seen flags for (although I have seen some PD "archetype" terms/flags but I consider that different from a subtype and more of a way to express yourself than describe symptoms, totally valid though).

That being said I think creating unofficial subtypes of existing conditions is... probably fine? Definitely better than straight up MUDs (for those who haven't gone into radqueer rabbit holes out of morbid curiosity, that means people making up entirely new disorders without any basis in science or any research or anything). But subtypes of existing conditions isn't a thing people besides those in the field of practice are doing yet afaik. I've considered doing this for OCD myself because obsessions and compulsions can be about anything so any number of subtypes exist as long as someone experiences them. But subtypes of things like OCD and phobias are a lot more simple, straightforward, and inherently implied/included under the disorder than it would be for something like ADHD. I think it's probably fine but it would require more consideration than coining a gender or something and individuals should get input from others with the condition. And definitely don't coin subtypes for conditions you don't have (unless you're helping someone who does, I suppose). Trust me, I super super get the appeal especially for those who don't fit the "stereotype" their neurotype has bc that can feel alienating for sure (I actually think this is a core reason why folks feel the need to coin MUDs to describe their exact symptoms, with the other core reason being that people with symptoms unexplainable by any existing condition want a "reason" or "cause" to attribute them to when sometimes people just... have symptoms, on their own, not fitting any diagnosis). Just be careful and considerate, please!

[histrionicfit]

*happy because you answered my asks*

Okey. Various things:

1) I'm getting informed about this pd, and I usually find that people with it are overly extroverted and dramatic/theatrical. Is it a requirement?

2) Gender stereotypes and diagnosis of hpd... I've read that this pd is usually more diagnosed in females, and that the most characteristic symptoms of this disorder are usually more associated with the female gender. For this reason, there is an underdiagnosis of hpd in the male population... Do you have more information about this?

3) I'm aware that some studies (actually, just one study) classifies HPD in subtypes, but I can't find enough information about it:\

4) Thanks for existing <3 How has your day been? Any news?

- ☣️

1) not necessarily, at least as far as extroversion goes. personally, im actually petrified of strangers due to paranoia. but, on the other hand, once ive deemed someone as "safe" i will be very theatrical and talkative. also, i will say to keep in mind you don't need to meet *every* criteria for HPD. the main thing with HPD is the excessive need to be the center of attention. past that, you can have any mix and match of 5+ of the HPD criteria

2) i don't necessarily have more information on hand about that, but i do have plenty of opinions. to me it goes hand in hand with NPD being viewed primarily as a male disorder. HPD tends to be seen as female NPD, despite the major differences in criteria. to me it's just sexism, plain and simple. because, of COURSE a man who wants attention would be charming and manipulative and only accept praise, whereas a feeble woman will take any scraps of attention no matter how negative and degrading! (major sarcasm)

3) yeah, there isn't much *actual* information about subtypes. to me subtypes are just helpful as they break down presentation, similar to bpd subtypes. both are informal, and aren't diagnostic tools. so of course subtypes should be taken with a grain of salt.

4) aw ty<3 my day has been pretty ok!! i haven't done much yet, but i started a bit of an upcycling project due to intense boredom with my clothes. most exciting news i currently have is that im starting ged classes soon! which i actually plan to make a stand alone post about that topic.

[mischiefmanifold]

gonna work on the PD criteria examples doc this weekend and potentially work on my NPD subtypes series I started and abandoned? idk if I find my notebook I’m going to be so happy but otherwise I’ll go through firefox and look for the links I’ve clicked before (😐)

I would also like to make some sort of “PD bios” series where I make biographies with a bunch of information about a PD in one place

[daddyd0nt]

Of course I check my lolcow thread y’all are talking about me like I’m some kind of celebrity you’re lavishing my BPD ass with attention I can’t help myself also yes I’m lying about being autistic that’s why I literally get disability for it I’m actually not disabled at all and scammed my way through disability accommodations all through late college and spent hundreds of hours in therapists offices for funzies also just because something isn’t an “official” diagnosis doesn’t mean it’s not a term therapists use to describe certain phenomena (like PD NOES cluster b subtype or atypical anorexia) I’m actually a 40 year old single man on the sex offender registry living in my mother’s basement pretending to be an unhinged young woman as a grand fetish larp. You got me. Everything I write I write with my dick in my hand and I’ve never experienced any sexual trauma or have any interest in horror art (which is why my writing focuses so heavily on emotion and so little on the act especially when dealing with minors, people writing that stuff to jack off will usually fade-to-black the actual act because emotional trauma and unhealthy relationships are just so hot that who needs the sex scene that’s how porn works right) I’m also a major druggie and boof a brick of heroin every morning before I go to work after shooting meth into my jugular. I’ve killed before and I’ll kill again. Every weekend me as the other teachers gather at a Taco Joe’s and sacrifice a toddler to Satan in the parking lot. I’m also Sams dad/Sorens ex pimp and personally ran the babyfuck factory. Im not just some broke mentally ill fat chick who is a little too into horror I’m actually a super interesting global criminal with millions of CP dollars and they will make Netflix documentaries about my crimes. Not like the only illegal thing I do is sometimes share pills with my dad and the occasional bump of wedding-coke I’m actually a psycho pedo killer and so is Stephen King. Not like people who write horror write about things that horrify is it’s all just porn because if u don’t understand it it must be porn fucking smoothbrains