#out of Doriath

[imakemywings]

Orodreth: So how is Thingol handling being an empty-nester?

Beleg: This is Turin, his new mortal son. We're working on getting mom and sister too.

Orodreth: Gotcha.

[feanorianethicsdepartment]

refugees do not, in fact, stop being refugees because you don’t like their leaders

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

some comment on my fic just claimed that "the iathrim didn't regard morgoth as an enemy," and that the second kinslaying "served the common good" by destroying doriath - apparently a "good-for-nothing state that was all but an ally to morgoth" - and by sending the silmaril on its path to valinor... that silmarillion copy was never cracked open

[softlysilverfountainsfall]

Bear with me while I rules-lawyer the spirit of the Oath of Feanor because I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Maedhros did.

The Oath is specifically targeted at anyone who "hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh, finding keepeth or afar casteth a Silmaril" which I do not believe means anyone who touches a Silmaril, despite "in hand taketh" because all the other stipulations are targeted specifically at people who keep the Silmarils away from the Feanorians, by hiding, hoarding, keeping, or even throwing it far away. It would also just be bizarre if, say, a Feanorian follower returned the Silmaril to their lords and the Oath required that they kill them.

However, the strongest evidence for the Oath only applying (or being interpreted to only apply) to people who deliberately withhold the Silmarils from the Feanorians are Maedhros'/the Feanorians' actions before the 2nd and 3rd kinslayings: in both cases, they send a letter demanding the return of the Silmaril. Now, if by touching/posessing the Silmaril, the deaths of Thingol, Dior, and then Elwing are already demanded by the oath, why in the world would they send a letter (losing part of the element of surprise), not even to declare war, but demanding the Silmaril's return? Sending that letter implies that this can still be resolved peacefully if the Silmaril is handed over.

It's my interpretation that Maedhros/the Feanorians are rules-lawyering this tiny loophole in the oath (regardless of whether the oath is present magically/compulsive/just their own dedication) by deliberately closing their eyes to the fact that the current holder of the Silmaril definitely believes it to be their possession and is deliberately keeping it from the Feanorians---which lasts as long as that holder hasn't confirmed that desire.

After all, Thingol, Dior, and Elwing didn't steal the Silmaril, they received it from family members. If the Feanorians ignore the intent behind their keeping it (before that intent is confirmed by the holder's response to the Feanorian's demand), then they could consider Thingol et al to simply...coincidentally...happen to be holding a Silmaril, not possessing it for themselves and therefore not liable to the oath.

Actually, one line in the text from after Thingol refuses to return the Silmaril even hints that even after that, the situation might be salvageable if the Silmaril is returned by free will: "Celegorm and Curufin vowed openly to slay Thingol and destroy his people if they came victorious from war [this is pre-Nirnaeth], and the jewel were not surrendered of free will" (emphasis mine, Of the Fifth Battle, The Silmarillion).

Of course, the Oath drives the Feanorians to reclaim the Silmarils, and so I view the letters to Thingol, Dior, and Elwing as last-ditch attempts at solving this peacefully (via exploiting the above loophole). (Note: this is not necessarily meant to make the Feanorians more sympathetic, this is just me trying to figure out why they sent those letters.) However, this also dooms them to a kinslaying, because as soon as Dior and Elwing reject returning the Silmaril, they have explicitly or implicitly claimed it for themselves and have now "in hand taketh" the Silmaril instead of just touching it and happening to have it around, which means their deaths are now demanded under the Oath.

[waitingforsecretsouls]

Disclaimer that I might be wrong about this, only personal impressions etc., but I feel like there exists a tendency to often depict first age Galadriel as not only particularly distanced but also disdainful towards the rest of her kin, particularly regarding Alqualondë. Which is very interesting to me, if you consider that she's the one who gets a scene of direct and pointed questioning with Melian about the finer points of the exile and lies (even if by omission) to her face. Which occurs after she had already established a stable acquaintanceship with her.

Galadriel his sister went not with him to Nargothrond, for in Doriath dwelt Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol, and there was great love between them. Therefore she remained in the Hidden Kingdom, and abode with Melian, and of her learned great lore and wisdom concerning Middle-earth. -Chapter 13: OF THE RETURN OF THE NOLDOR

She furthermore also seems committed to letting bygones be bygones:

And on a time Melian said: ‘There is some woe that lies upon you and your kin. That I can see in you, but all else is hidden from me; for by no vision or thought can I perceive anything that passed or passes in the West: a shadow lies over all the land of Aman, and reaches far out over the sea. Why will you not tell me more?’ ‘For that woe is past,’ said Galadriel; ‘and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, though still hope may seem bright.’ -Chapter 15: OF THE NOLDOR IN BELERIAND

Which is not to say that she couldn't have born a grudge about Alqualondë, but rather that she prioritized unity among the Noldor and Sindar over acting on said grudge and made the deliberate choice to try and move on, even at the cost of her personal integrity (since she presumable started her tutelage while the first kinslaying was still kept a secret which is...audacious to say the least).

[brethilach]

euughh just saw someone say that Celegorm kidnapping Lúthien to force her into marriage was "out of character" and just. I understand the urge to smooth the edges off your blorbo's flaws or whatever but if you've gotten to the point where you genuinely believe the author's portrayal of his own character isn't in line with canon then I think you just misunderstood what you read

[sakasakiii]

Hi!

I love your work!! Your art is very pretty. Do you have a specific idea of how old everyone is ? Do you lean more towards canon or do you have your own dates in mind ? If don’t wanna a answer it’s ok!

Hope u have a nice day

(Remember to drink water!)

hiiii nonnie!!! thank you for checking in, and im happy u like the stuff i put out!! when it comes to ages, it's difficult to answer sometimes bc of the way professor tolkien's timeline is-- it makes gauging one singular place where most of the cast can be compared something that makes my tired brain go 😵🤧🤕 but i love the prompt youve given! and thus heres my attempt at it

with most of my tolkien stuff, i always try to stick to canon wherever possible emphasis is on try lmao and the topic of ages is one such place. i do make exceptions to the Professor's canon sometimes for a few reasons: 1) i like some of the scrapped ideas in his drafts, or 2) i just prefer other options. with ages, i think the only charas with canon-established ages i deviated from are fingolfin, finrod, turgon, and aredhel. i try to keep cases like these minimal tho, so i hope it doesn't bother anyone too much... 👉👈

anyways i figured just dropping a list of numbers would be kinda boring to look at so heres an illustrated guide to what the ~rough~ ages of the finweans are in my head whenever i write or draw. Y.T. 1495 (the year Finwe dies) is the controlled medium ive used to enable a fair comparison of the Finweans

note: "born Y.T. xxx" means this is the canon date of birth listed on Tolkien Gateway. "est. born [xxx]" means this is a noncanon estimate:

the First Age gets a lot more muddled from there due to the hullaballoo of everything going on, so ill only be including the doriathrim and a few other denizens of nargothrond:

it's mostly the older elves that are more undefined/vague with their ages (i.o.w. others like elwing, earendil, the peredhil twins, and most Men all have set dates of birth), so they're all i'll be doing for now. but it's that vagueness which makes hcing all the more enjoyable, isn't it! plus since we’re on this subject, under the cut are just a few headcanons and musings ive had that i wanted to put somewhere 😙

Finarfin and Earwen were born within months of each other! Finwe and Olwe made a Really Big Deal out of when they found out their wives were pregnant at the same time. As a result, the two were often sent on many playdates with each other to “bolster healthy relations” between the Noldor and the Teleri. It wasn’t an arranged marriage situation, but I like to think they were goofy for each other from the start… Resulting in the two eventually getting married as soon as they came of age, the fastest out of all of Finwe’s kids to do so. 

The reason the Ambarussa are significantly younger than the other Finweans (especially the Feanorians-- there’s a 100 Valian year gap between them and Curufin alone!) is because I imagine they were accidental babies that even Feanor didn’t expect to conceive. too bad morgoth said "its morgin time!" and started Messing Things Up shortly afterwards.....

Anaire was Lalwen's good friend long before she married Fingolfin; they met through Lalwen who wingmanned Fingolfin the whole time. i like think Anaire'd be the best out of all the wives at keeping good, healthy bonds with all the women of her family :DD

luthien's potential 姐姐/big sis dynamic with all the younger doriathrim elves is something i daydream about a lot 😌 but sometimes the fact that she's older than finarfin keeps me up at night

this has been really fun, so thanks again for asking-- annnd yessir, i am chugging water as i write this so you better be doing the same ❤️ have a great start to your week!

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

Fëanáro made Ringil.

It was the last gift he ever gave to Aracáno. (Not the only one, because he'd been coerced by Finwë into offering begetting day presents.)

He had never wanted Aracáno dead, per se. Even at his most deranged, when he heard his father bemoan "Of course it was only a matter of time before I was killed because of you" and his mother's sobs echoed in his skull like his screams in a cave, but even at that point, Fëanáro didn't desire the idiot's death as much as he wished Aracáno would get out of his way.

But before then, when Moringoþo's whispers had yet to infiltrate his thoughts, Fëanáro wrought Ringil. It wasn't his first attempt at a sword. It was single edged with intricate engravings in the blade. It was perfectly balanced for quick redirection, able to be used in one hand or two depending on the need. He named it Ringil - Cold.

(My approximation of how Ringil looks. Sorry I don't have more pixels. 😔)

People whispered about how Fëanáro was preparing to fight his half-brother, but how his pride would not let him strike an unarmed man. No one considered it came from a place of genuine concern.

Even centuries after its maker's death, Aracáno used Ringil. Even as it's design grew more and more outdated, he preferred his brother's work.

He died with Ringil in hand. Þorondor saved it. It passed to Turgon, then Idril, then sailed back West to await its master's return.

(I used Aracáno here because I believe Fëanáro used that name exclusively for Nolofinwë - it distances Nolo from their father. Náro didn't care to do that with Arafinwë, who spent most of his time in Alqualondë with his in-laws and was more Olwë's son than Finwë's. He had little to fear from Arafinwë.)

[thelien-art]

For the Valentine request; there's never enough Galadriel and Celeborn art imho

You know what?? I think you´re right!

Okay, so I have a headcannon about Galadriel being the tallest of Finarfins children. I´m not going to explain more other than she´s mommy and probably always wears something with innerboob showing.

[pacificgasandelectric]

has anybody done the meta on how the second kinslaying was probably also motivated by the knowledge that with the Girdle fallen, Morgoth’s forces WOULD make it into Menegroth sooner or later, and they’d kill everyone there and then take the Silmaril, and then the Fëanorians would be Right Back Where They Started (morgoth 3, them 0) but actually in a worse position than before on account of the Multiple Crushing Defeats the Noldor had suffered since arriving in Beleriand

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

I have a lack of sympathy for Thingol, Dior, and Elwing and here’s why:

Ngl, i’d feel more sympathy for dior, elwing, thingol, etc if they didn’t all collectively decide a shiny rock, that they had absolutely no claim over and kept from their rightfull owners, over their own people.

Sons of feanor: hey, can we have our father’s greatest creation, that morgoth killed out grandfather for, back?

Thingol, Dior, Elwing: yeah, about that... see, it’s very shiny and i like it very much so imma just... keep it.

Sons of feanor: but it literally does not belong to you??? Stealing it doesn’t make it yours? And it’s literally one of the only things we have left of our trees of light? And once more our father created it? And it was stolen from him? You should really just give it back?

Thingol, Dior, Elwing: but it’s mine now. I have it.

Sons of feanor: you are aware that we have sworn an oath, a soul binding oath, that forces us to kill and get rid of any one and anything in our way to get them back, right? Like, we don’t want to, but we will due to this oath.

Thingol, Dior, Elwing: so?

Sons of feanor: we will literally resort to kinslaying to get these jewels back due to the oath, never mind that it literally does not belong to you and is our father’s creation, holds the light of our trees, and caused the death of our grandfather. Listen, we are trying to resolve this peacefully, bc we also do not want to resort to kinslaying, so give us OUR thing back. You are not beholden to an oath. Not that that should matter. Literally GIVE US OUR SHIT BACK.

Thingol, Dior, Elwing: nah

Sons of feanor: oh my fucking god *kinslays* we fucking warned you you dumbass! *kinslays again* all you had to do was give us our thing back, it literally does not belong to you. *kinslays* we fucking told you about the oath, but did you listen? No! Do you even care about your own people? Like, what is this shit?

Thingol, Dior, Elwing: *dies* *cries about how it’s unfair*

(Look, do i acknowledge and understand that what the feanorians did with the kinslaying is wrong? Yeah. Do i also acknowledge and understand that Thingol, Dior, and Elwing could have avoided all of this if they had just given the jewels that they had not right to back? Absolutely. Even ignoring how they had no right to the silmarils in the first place, as leaders of their people, they did not do right by their people by putting a shiny rock over their people (especially considering they were not under oath) especially considering they were given the option to resolve it peacefully and were given warning)

(To be completely honest, Thingol, Dior, and Elwing continuously acting as if they had a right to the silmarils is very much like how the museums dig up ancient tombs, pilfers the treasures, take it all to their land and display it, all without a second thought to the people and descendants of the rightful owners, and disregard the cultural value for the original people, and thenget bitchy when the people of the country and culture want their history ancestors possessions back)

The only one i’ll give lenience to is elwing bc she was young, had not parental guidance, and withholding the jewel was probably also partly driven by spite, but Thingol and Dior have no leg to stand on what so ever.

Lastly, i’d like to state that this is what I think, this is my opinion and you are absolutely free and welcome to have your own. If you have a different opinion, feel free to post it on your own time and in your own post.

[bretwalda-lamnguin]

🐅 with any narn character

🐅(characterisation): Túrin is musically talented! From the Lay of the Children of Húrin:

“in weaving song he had a minstrel’s mastery, but mirth was not in it, for he mourned the misery of the men of Hithlum”

I feel like it’s a thing that goes ignored, Túrin isn’t just some walking disaster who can’t do anything right. He’s a very capable and talented, and at times can be very charismatic. But there’s so much to imagine with this in particular! Young Túrin singing for Thingol and Melian, or playing music for Nellas to dance to as they play at being Daeron (or even Beren) and Lúthien! Beleg first noticing how beautiful he’s become when he sings for him. There's also the Laer Cú Beleg!

On an angstier note (heh!) because I’m evil, Túrin singing Nienor songs from his childhood while she’s recovering. She can’t say she’s ever heard them before, yet their strange familiarity comforts her…

[maironsmaid]

At the threshold of Doriath

[aureentuluva70]

Lay of Leithian Part 9: The Song and Dance of Luthien

Luthien's Song Translation:

"When the Moon, jewel of the firmament,

shines on the watch for us, Children of the One,

then flower and tree, listen in silence!

O, Lady of the West, Starkindler,

to thee I sing, I Nightingale!"

Art by Ted Nasmith and Matthew Stewart

<<<<<Part 8 Part 10>>>>>

[deadqueernoldor]

Nghhh chewing on finweans and realizing how self-sacraficial is so deeply instilled in that family, and that that particular trait is prevalent in each generation.

Finwe knew he couldnt win against Morgoth, but he could try and protect his grandchildren. He fought regardless.

Fingolfin knew he couldnt twin against Morgoth in 1-on-1. He fought regardless.

Finrod knew he would die on his quest for Beren, and still fought the wolf to save his friend. He did.

Celebrimbor knew he could protect others by dying, protecting the knowledge about the rings. He did.

It stands to reason that Elladan, Elrohir or Arwen, would have come upon a similar fate.

[shrikeseams]

While I’m thinking about Iathrim-Dwarvish cultural exchange, let me present an AU:

Instead of a physical altercation over the nauglamir-silmaril, the dwarves just... withdraw all of their services from Doriath. Conclusively. Doriath is now under dwarven boycott until they return stolen cultural artifacts and re-negotiate labor prices.

Do the Iathrim know how maintain Menegroth on their own? I doubt it! A handful might have the skills, but I doubt there are enough of them to maintain the whole city. See also: jewelry manufacture, access to metals, and (with Nargothrond gone) access to... any trade at all.