#second kinslaying
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thelien-art · 2 months ago
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Death of Celegorm
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We are not going to talk about how long this took... anyway I´m actually surprisingly happy about it :)
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erendur · 2 months ago
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Doriath vaguely hot take : very few people were actually killed during the second kinslaying (unlike the third)
I've been rereading stuff, and I've come to the conclusion that, contrary to popular opinion, the second kinslaying was not a massacre of epic proportions, with many civilian victims, but an episode on a much smaller scale, unlike the massacre in Sirion.
For the following reasons :
I. Any description/allusion to Doriath in the text focuses on Dior as the (almost) only victim of the third kinslaying :
"But Dior returned no answer to the sons of Fëanor ; and Celegorm stirred up his brothers to prepare an assault upon Doriath. They came at unawares in the middle of winter, and fought with Dior in the Thousand Caves ; and so befell the second slaying of Elf by Elf. There fell Celegorm by Dior's hand, and there fell Curufin, and dark Caranthir ; but Dior was slain also, and Nimloth his wife, and the cruel servants of Celegorm seized his young sons and left them to starve in the forest."
That's the main description of the second kinslaying we have, and Dior and his wife are the only direct victims mentioned (on the non-Fëanorian side).
Later on we read this about the Silmaril in Sirion : "Then Elwig and the people of Sirion would not yield the jewel which Beren had worn and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain (...)"
Again, no mention is made of any victim but Dior (Nimloth is completely forgotten there).
And finally, in the third mention we have of the second kinslaying : "But Eonwë answered that the right to the work of their father, which the sons of Fëanor formerly possessed, had now perished, because of their many and merciless deeds, being blinded by their oath, and most of all because of their slaying of Dior and the assault upon the Havens."
Again, the only mentioned victim is Dior, and there is no indication of further victims. Now, it could be a bias of our sources, who do favour the famous and high-born (and ignore for example armed guards that could have been there), and also Melian/Elwing's line.
BUT :
II. That would make sense if we consider that Doriath was at the time of the second kinslaying recovering from an episode of violence on a, I would argue, much bigger scale :
After Thingol was killed, many people were killed in the fighting between the Dwarves and Elves in the caves of Menegroth ("For there was battle in the Thousand Caves, and many Elves and Dwarves were slain (...). But the Dwarves were victorious, and the halls of Thingol were ransacked and plundered").
Probably, crucially, the majority of these victims were the few warriors that they had. Others were probably killed as well fighting the dwarves later on with Beren and Dior, to avenge Thingol and recover his treasure.
So at the time of the second kinslaying, Dior might have had a few armed guards around him, but the impression we get is that he fights the Sons of Fëanor alone, and I would venture that his wife is killed when she tries to come and defend him.
The rest of the population of Doriath would be non-combatants who just flee, probably like they just fled the first time.
And that's why the text says that "a remnant of the people fled" from Doriath : it's not "a remnant" because the Fëanorians killed them all, it's "a remnant" because they were already what was left of Doriath at the time of their attack.
III.It would also explain why during the third kinslaying some of the people of the sons of Fëanor turn against them, but not during Doriath.
"For the sons of Fëanor that yet lived came down suddenly upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and destroyed them. In that battle some of their people stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (...)"
We are told that Sirion is : "the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf ; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath". Sirion is a massacre on a large scale, unlike Doriath.
It would also explain why the third kinslaying is referred to in collective terms, not by singling out one individual. Eonwë talks about "the assault upon the Havens."
IV.I think the reason for the difference in terms of scale of violence between Doriath and Sirion is a strict reading of the Oath :
As a reminder, that's the text of the oath in the Silm : "They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take (...) vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession."
In Doriath, the Sons of Fëanor ask Dior to return the Silmaril. Dior refuses, Dior is slain.
In Sirion however, it's not just Elwing that refuses to return the Silmaril : it's Elwing "and the people of Sirion". The people of Sirion, collectively, therefore fall under the "vengeance and hatred" of the Sons of Fëanor. And that's why the massacre is on a bigger scale, and some of the Sons of Fëanor's people chose to turn against their lords.
V.It would finally make sense in terms of the gradual descent into violence of the Sons of Fëanor
Time and again, we see them (or at least Maedhros) try and keep the violence to a minimum. He (they) try diplomatic solutions, try and ignore the oath, but "the oath of the sons of Fëanor was waked again from sleep. (...)".
There is a graduation in the violence : first the massacre at Alqualondë, which is not premeditated, then the slaying of Dior and his wife over the Silmaril, then finally the attack over the population of Sirion and, later on, the attack against the guards of the host of the Valar.
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cilil · 4 months ago
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The more I dig into the lore around the Second Kinslaying for my current project, the more I'm fascinated by the detail that it was specifically Dior who killed Celegorm. That's one of the main details we get, we aren't even explicitly told who killed Dior, Nimloth, Curufin and Caranthir, just that they were slain.
Celegorm meets his end at the hands of the son of the woman he tried to marry, the son of the couple he fought against and I just love it when narrative threads come full circle (or parallel one another).
I know opinions differ in regards to the level of sexual or romantic interest Celegorm had in Lúthien, as well as the exact appearance of Dior, but this is why I love having him look like a male copy of his mother. I love the idea that Celegorm, in a way, sees her face one more time, but this time it's Dior's. I love the idea that the opponent he fights to the death looks like Lúthien. I love the idea that Dior's face may have been the last thing he saw.
And yes, I also love the idea that Dior may have wanted revenge for what happened to his mother.
If you then put the Silmaril aside for a moment, you can see a more private, personal conflict at the heart of this tragedy: Dior vs Celegorm, though Dior, true to his name meaning "successor", acts as a sort of stand-in for Beren, Lúthien and Thingol in Celegorm's perception.
It's just... ugh. So very fascinating and emotional and tragic.
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tolkien-povs · 4 months ago
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Just something about how Maglor composing the Noldotantë and committing three more kinslayings afterwards has the same/ similar vibe as Fëanáro yelling, "Get thee gone from my gate thou jail-crow of Mandos" and him literally trying to follow and enter the gate of said jail-crow.
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serene-faerie · 1 month ago
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What I hate the most about Fëanorian apologia is how the onus is always put on the victims who suffered from the Fëanorians. The Fëanorians are never held accountable for their crimes.
It’s always,
“Olwë and the Teleri should’ve just heard out Fëanor and handed over their ships to the Noldor.”
And not,
“Fëanor should’ve respected Olwë’s refusal and found another way to get to Beleriand, instead of slaughtering the Teleri and stealing their ships.”
It’s always,
“Thingol overreacted to the First Kinslaying, and he should’ve just trusted the Fëanorians.”
And not,
“The Fëanorians should’ve shown more respect to Thingol and actually apologized for slaughtering Thingol’s kindred in Alqualondë.”
It’s always,
“Thingol should’ve put aside his grievances and joined the Union of Maedhros.”
And not,
“Maedhros should’ve apologized to Thingol for Celegorm and Curufin trying to abduct Lúthien if he was serious about having an alliance with Doriath.”
It’s always,
“Dior could’ve avoided the Second Kinslaying by handing over the Silmaril.”
And not,
“Regardless of the Silmaril, the Fëanorians were wrong to attack a severely-weakened kingdom and murder innocent people— including leaving six-year-olds in the woods to die.”
Its always,
“Elwing could’ve avoided the Third Kinslaying by giving up the Silmaril.”
And not,
“The Fëanorians should’ve waited for Eärendil to return so that both parties could resolve this civilly, instead of jumping straight to slaughtering a settlement of refugees.”
It’s always,
“The Fëanorians were right to commit mass-murder because property rights are more important than people’s lives.”
Never,
“The Fëanorians were so obsessed with getting the Silmarils back that they prioritized those jewels over innocent people, and their victims have every right to hate and mistrust them.”
Why is there so much victim-blaming??? Why are they being blamed for the choices of Fëanor and his sons???
Regardless of who the Silmaril belongs to, the Sons of Fëanor always had a choice to do what’s right. They were never forced to commit mass-murder, they deliberately made the choice to commit mass-murder. If they’d treated the Sindar with a bit more grace and respect, perhaps they could’ve come to some kind of solution together. If they’d taken responsibility for their crimes and made proper amends, perhaps the Sindar would’ve been a bit more willing to ally with them.
They don’t do any of that. They expect the Sindar to just blindly respect them when they haven’t done anything to earn it. And then they wonder why most of the Sindar hate their guts.
All of the consequences the Fëanorians face are ultimately on them. Not their victims.
So please, let’s just tone down the victim-blaming already.
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eloquentsisyphianturmoil · 2 months ago
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Every take about Dior is juicier than the last. He bested all three Cs in single combat before Maglor felled him in a mighty rage? He was sent rabid after seeing Celegorm kill Nimloth and skewered him bloodily? He was more feral than Feanor and there are gratuitous paintings of him facing off with balrog-like feanorians? Don’t mind if I do. 
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silmarillion-ways-to-die · 8 months ago
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velvet4510 · 4 months ago
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mahtariel-of-himring · 6 months ago
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Ok, but what if Thranduil hates dwarves so much, not because of the whole betrayal but because the group of elves that primarily got along with and befriended the dwarves were the Fëanorian‘s?
Maedhros and Azaghâl?
Caranthir and Telchar?
Celebrimbor and Narvi?
And Thranduil of course despises the Fëanorian’s because of the second kinslaying and since they’re so known for befriending dwarves he decided that they couldn’t be good.
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grey-gazania · 9 months ago
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Anyway I do think Maedhros put the cruel servants of Celegorm to death before he went off in search of Elured and Elurin.
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sallysavestheday · 7 days ago
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Because the weather is foul here, have a little horrible Celegorm, in Doriath.
The snow hides them almost to the gates, falling fast and thick and masking their footprints, veiling their white cloaks and concealing the subtle movements of their approach from any watching eyes. Celegorm has planned the assault for this bitter season, contrived the camouflage, waited for the weather to be in their favor. He has always loved a winter hunt: the pearled flakes of snow lend a mystery to the kill, and the chill wind masks the metallic tang of blood. Menegroth is beautiful, they say, restored from the days of Thingol’s madness and graced anew with the Silmaril’s light. But the grey-elves have no right to the jewel, and they have resisted the call to relinquish it. Maedhros insisted on protocol – letters before swords – as though any heir of the erstwhile King of Doriath would heed the Sons of Fëanor. Celegorm scorned that diplomacy, his whole self focused on the prize. Now he will have it, once and for all. He cuts through the guard, through the assembled courtiers, knowing only the pull of the gem, the drag toward the man-king whose claim to that radiance cannot be borne. He sees nothing of the magnificence through which he whirls. There is only the tunnel of his blade’s circumference, the brilliant heat and pressure of the Oath. The pain between his temples and behind his heart. It calls him: that fire, the gift he longs to render to his Lord. His feet are drawn to it as though following a scent in the ancient woods. He slips out of time, believes himself to be running with the Hunt, chasing his quarry eagerly, hungry for the kill. As Celegorm’s arm draws back for the blow, Dior looks him full in the face, furious and desperate and proud. He has Lúthien’s eyes. Melian’s eyes. Oromë’s eyes, god-gold and outraged: the hawk stooping, fierce and fell. The walls of the great caverns tremble with Celegorm’s bay of despair. His arm falls, too heavy now to stop. His body tumbles after it, meeting Dior’s rising blade with an urgent certainty, answering his own wild call. They fall together in a tangle of limbs, gasping, clutching. As through a mist, Celegorm hears the Hunter’s horn. He rolls until his lips touch his own blood coating the white marble floor. It is cooling quickly, spread out like an offering in the depths of the winter. As his breath leaves him, Celegorm whispers Oromë’s name. He tastes the bitter iron of his heart and smiles.
Also on AO3, as part of Beloved, Forsaken, Redeemed.
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chaos-of-the-abyss · 4 months ago
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dior violently mauling celegorm caranthir and curufin: pfft i'm the only one serving cunt here. are you three not embarrassed
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riding-with-the-wild-hunt · 6 months ago
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hi i think curufin should get stabbed in the back at menegroth for the sake of unsubtle thematic suitability :)
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eri-pl · 15 days ago
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I just realized something (may result in a fic when I have time, but feel free to use the idea): with the chaos and the lack of information exchange with Doriath, the Feanorians may have not known that Lúthien became mortal (only figured out that she died from grief). Or they may have assummed it's something that someone made up along the way, because how and why.
Especially Celegorm.
Cut to Celegorm like: "ok I'm dying but at least I'll be in the Halls, she's in the Halls, she's widowed, more widowed than Grandfather had been when Indis got him… Hmm. :D Yes, you go Tyelco, now it's your chance!!!" *dies*
And Námo explaining it to him. This would be hilarious. Like angsty-hilarious-something, which is one of my favorite combos. :D
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tolkien-povs · 5 months ago
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POV:
You compose a song narrating your remorse of the first kinslaying you did, and proceed to do two more even worse kinslayings a while later.
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serene-faerie · 4 months ago
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When Dior is a boy, his parents tell him the story of how they fell in love and got together. And that includes the days of Lúthien’s capture in Nargothrond.
Dior is quick to notice how his mother becomes uncomfortable, how she shivers when talking about Celegorm and Curufin. He also notices how his father’s frown darkens at the mention of those two Fëanorians.
It’s at that moment when he swears an oath to both his mother and father— Celegorm will die by his hands if they ever meet. Dior will avenge his mother.
When the Second Kinslaying comes to Doriath many years later, Dior remembers his oath. He will not let Doriath fall without a fight, and he will never let the Sons of Fëanor take the Silmaril that his parents worked so hard to take. His people fight bravely to the bitter end. His children flee the slaughter, aided by some of the Sindar. Nimloth fights Curufin, and they skewer each other with their own swords. His wife dies not in despair, but in victory.
Meanwhile, Dior fights Celegorm to the death. Out of all the Fëanorians, he hates Celegorm the most, and he is determined to make sure the third son doesn’t escape. Dior fights with the strength of his father, and with the viciousness of his mother, when she had been captured in Nargothrond. Though he gets mortally wounded in the duel, Dior uses the last of his strength to slice off Celegorm’s head with his blade.
Doriath falls with Dior, but the kingdom did not fall without a fight. He knows that his children have gone— but he does not know where. He only hopes that they are safe, that they are alive. And as Dior bleeds out in the throne hall, as his blood stains the grounds, he smiles.
“My oath is fulfilled… Father… Mother…” he whispers.
Dior dies with a smile on his face.
At last, Lúthien has been avenged.
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