#tolkien meta

[glorf1ndel]

Something I realized on my latest watch of The Return of the King: Aragorn’s “For Frodo” line comes right after he hears Sauron’s voice in his head, whispering, “Aragorn. Elessar.” The eyes of the Dark Lord are on him. He must be feeling so much fear in that moment, but he doesn’t back down. The fact that Aragorn dedicates what he thinks will be his last battle to one of his dearest friends, as Sauron is watching him? That is King behavior. 👑

[mai-komagata]

so here is my melkor hot take of the day. i dont think melkor is more evil than sauron.

like yes, tolkien said sauron is less evil than melkor bc he is devoted and obedient to him, i.e. catholic theological legalese, since love and obedience are the catholic virtue things that dont originate from evil. cool. ASIDE FROM THAT.

and like, melkor is totally MORE POWERFUL than sauron by like orders of magnitude. sure. melkor is the evil soup that suffuses the world like original sin and the fall do in catholic theology.

but like if in looking at intent and what they do, i dont think you can say that for sauron's relative power, i hesitate to say he is more evil, but he is evil in a more insidious and dangerous way common to our age.

like i see melkor very much representing the evil of the natural world (and to some degree part of the universal plan of eru iluvatar). he is volcanoes. he is the blight of winter. he is disease and pestilence and decay. he is the coming of darkness, the destruction of creation. the entropy of the universe. he desires the spark or life but can only subdivide endlessly like bacteria.

but that is part of the fallen world in theological terms even if it shouldn't be part of a healed world of immortal quasi spiritual (or actually spiritual) beings. it is imperfection if the goal is deathlessness. but it is part of the world.

and to a degree i see valar as having this sort of impersonal force of nature quality about them. not just melkor. they all do. tolkien describes them like heavenly bureaucrats. they arent tied to the world and dont understand the world in a tangible personal way that even the maiar do.

sauron is different and i think there is a reason sauron is the villain in the books in the second and third age and specifically in the main book he published. he is the evil of our modern world.

because most mythologies dont have two dark lords. one representing chaos and destruction and one representing order and coercion and industry.

it represents a fundamental swing in how cultures started to conceptualize evil. we mastered science and thus a lot of the things that were a curse from the gods were being solved. and yet. the world wasn't becoming less evil. we still want to control each other, to subjugate others. we want to tame nature so much it kills her and makes her barren. we covet power because we are afraid of the lack of it.

so yeah. sauron and melkor are both evil. but sauron was subject to melkor (or natural evils) until we subdued and chained him. and then sauron's evils were dominant.

(is this character analysis or fictional theology? idk.)

i love these characters because they are symbolic of how we conceptualize evil in the world, as well as being stand-ins for a certain character archetype. i dont have to write them just as them being evil. but they are great for writing about difficult subjects because of their symbolic nature.

(and maybe like sauron i too love volcanoes and snow and mushrooms and thus am a bit enchanted with the force of nature that is melkor. i used to study a LOT of catholic theology, and now as an outsider looking in im like, maybe i can play with these myths and tropes. at the same time, the ultimate plan of eru iluvatar is meant to be a mystery.)

[velvet4510]

One problem I have with Tolkien’s approach toward Galadriel's characterization in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is that her desire for her own kingdom to rule is painted as a bad thing that she needs to let go of. She’s “proud” for wanting that kind of position and needs to be humbled enough to realize she shouldn’t. But the text never depicts Fingolfin or Fingon or Turgon or Finrod or Aragorn - or any of the male characters who become rulers - as wrong for having the same aspiration.

[anipologist]

I wonder if one of the reasons elves seem so contradictory (specifically on the going from wise & ancient to endearingly childish front) is that theoretically they never really lose their parents.

Obviously in reality in Middle Earth at least, they do (which would explain why Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn & Thranduil for instance whose parents are either dead or unreachable are the grownups in Middle Earth).

But in the proper order of things even a grown elf, whether 100 years or 10,000 years old can always come back and tell their parents their worries and fears and hopes.

And that’s something that humans or even dwarves simply can’t comprehend because in the natural order of things their parents will always pass on and leave them as the next generation of adults.

(Related)

Feanor is the only elf in Valinor permanently without his biological mother…which definitely causes issues…

When his father dies as well it’s kind of unsurprising that he completely, snaps…

[astral-aromance]

"Fëanor was so egocentric for naming his son after himself," the fandom says, clearly portraying it as a character flaw and using it as a reason to push the popular "Fëanor=bad" agenda.

And I am just left to wonder... where's that same energy about Fingolfin and Finarfin doing the exact same thing? Because Arakáno and Ingoldo are NOT new names, people!

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

I do think that any fan who believes Tolkien intended readers to view characters as deserving of death, instead of simply meeting death as a consequence of their actions (or that one state-sanctioned execution), is fundamentally missing the ideology conveyed in ‘Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.’

[growingingreenwood]

Here are my thoughts on Elves re-growing their teeth that nobody asked for:

Since Elves can live for literally ever if they're careful enough, I think it's super unlikely that one single set of teeth would be able to make it through all of the ages without even getting knocked out, rotting, or getting eroded overtime until they are flat to the gum. Unless of course Eru made them with invincible teeth (more invisible than any other part of the elves.) 

Personally, I think that it's most likely and the most PRACTICAL that Elves do the same thing as Crocodiles do where their teeth hollow out as they age so that a new tooth can grow into the space and eventually force the old tooth to fall out. Revealing a mostly fully grown tooth underneath. 

I think the FUNNIEST would be if it was like rodents and one single set of teeth slowly grows for eternity, so that if they don’t eat enough or wear them down their teeth get significantly longer than is ‘normal.’ Imagine the weird fashion trends the elves could come up with by purposefully growing out specific teeth.  

However, I think it would be the SCARIEST if it was the same as Sharks where they grow new teeth behind the old ones, and slowly force the older one’s forward until they become loose enough to fall out of their mouths. Could you imagine if elves had 2 - 3 sets of teeth at any given time in their mouths. Fucking terrifying.

[readinginithilien]

From A letter by J.R.R.Tolkien to Milton Waldman, 1951 (from the Silmarillion):

Elrond symbolises throughout the ancient wisdom, and his House represents Lore - the preservation in reverent memory of all tradition concerning the good, wise, and beautiful. It is not a scene of action, but of reflection. Thus it is a place visited on the way to all deeds, or 'adventures'. It may prove to be on the direct road (as in The Hobbit); but it may be necessary to go from there in a totally unexpected course. So necessarily in The Lord of the Rings, having escaped to Elrond from the imminent pursuit of present evil, the hero departs in a wholly new direction: to go and face it as its source.

Tolkien again proving me wrong: I usually assume authors write their pieces, about characters and places, and then literature analysists look for meaning and symbolisms in there. But no, Tolkien not only had the full backstory and life of that half-Elf, he also was fully aware of what place he has in the narrative foil. Elrond's place must be visited on the way of any adventure, because that's where you can rest, get lore, and decide on the future path.

[erulasse23]

Frodo & PTSD: Healing

At the end of Frodo’s journey, he is left feeling isolated, alone, and without joy. It says in “The Grey Havens” that he withdrew from Shire life. When he becomes “ill” on the anniversary of being stabbed (by the Nazgul and Shelob), he hides it from Sam and says nothing. We know that his self-concept has been irreversibly changed. He set out from the Shire as a kind gentle-hobbit, with the idea of adventure being exciting and fun, only to be confronted with suffering, the reality of evil, and his own perceived failures. 

In the end, he cannot conceive of a life outside of his trauma and how he has been changed by his journey. He decides to sail to Valinor. Now what is interesting is that while the fandom (at least recently) has interpreted this as Frodo going to find healing in Valinor since he could not in Middle Earth, Tolkien never says that he is going for the purpose of healing. Rather, you get the impression that he has given up on healing. That his wounds are too deep and his joy too far lost. Sailing does indeed mark an end to his suffering, but not necessarily because he has healed. 

I want to interject a bit of historical context here. While Tolkien was writing the Lord of the Rings, post World War II, research on mental health was lightyears behind where it is today. The diagnosis of PTSD would not be added to the DSM until 1980, after wide study in the aftermath of the Vietnam War. In Tolkien’s time, it was called “battle fatigue” or “combat stress reaction”. Treatments ranged from electroshock therapy, to sedatives, to psychotherapy. The field of psychotherapy was a bit chaotic then, with the emergence of several new styles such as cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), still widely practiced today. 

The problem with these treatments, including CBT, is that they do not address the actual cause of PTSD. As previously discussed, PTSD occurs when the body’s stress response is overwhelmed and becomes “stuck”. CBT aims to change our rational thoughts and ideas, which then change the resultant emotions. This is a “top-down” approach. People who have experienced trauma do not necessarily respond to this because symptoms don’t come from a thought or belief from our rational brain, they come from our subconscious brain being stuck in crisis mode. Therefore, a “bottom-up” approach works much better.

Currently, some of the most-recommended treatments for PTSD include DBT (dialectical behavior therapy), EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), and neurofeedback therapy, all aiming to create a sense of physical sensation of safety, allow for traumatic memories to be processed appropriately, and to “unstick” our brains. A sense of community and mindfulness, fully inhabiting our bodies but not being alone in them, is essential to recovery. 

So let’s compare Frodo to Eowyn. Eowyn also suffers a grievous blow from the Witch-King himself and is left afterwards with the same symptoms: despair, dark dreams, and she is cold and pale. The difference between the two, however, is that, “Her malady begins far back before this day,” as Aragon says. Eowyn, for a variety of reasons (that’s a whole other post if we’re going to discuss her trauma), rode out with the feeling that her only purpose was to die in battle. She says that she does not want healing, she only wishes to return to the battle and die. Her injury and the Black Shadow of the Nazgul are not a new experience for her, they do not change her self-conception. They only make her more determined. 

Healing for Eowyn begins when Faramir takes the time to listen to her and validate her feelings. He does not tell her she is wrong, or attempt to change her belief. He sits with her, and eventually, he explains that he loves her for herself, fully separate from her trauma or depression and regardless of what emotions she is feeling. He enables her to see that she is more than her grief. He shows her a life where she is not alone and where she may feel happy again, and she allows herself feel that happiness rather than clinging to death. Her character evolution is almost an inverse of Frodo's in this way.

Now this is not at all a criticism of Sam (I love that hobbit to death!!) but Sam does not provide this same sense of community to Frodo. Sam loves Frodo, but his attention is divided between Frodo and Rosie (and the regular Shire goings-on). Sam struggles to understand why Frodo cannot enjoy the Shire as he once did, and he isn’t able to offer the same sort of validation. But I think Sam is the reason that Frodo stayed as long as he did, and the reason that Frodo was able to complete his quest. And I like to think that once Sam arrived in Valinor, he was reunited with a Frodo who, while not the hobbit he was before the Fellowship, has regained a sense of joy and togetherness. 

If you want more information about any of the topics that I briefly touched on here, let me know! I’m always happy to yap about my interests :)

Part One | Part Two

[serene-faerie]

I wasn’t going to say anything originally, but I’m still really annoyed with that one reblog on my bingo card post.

So let me make this very clear:

MELIAN IS NOT A SELFISH NARCISSIST FOR ABANDONING DORIATH

I can’t believe this needs to be said, but apparently it must. Not only is it such a bad faith argument, but it’s completely wrong.

Melian was going through a tremendous amount of grief that was completely alien to her as a Maia. First, Lúthien became mortal and left Doriath to live a mortal life, and Melian has to deal with the fact that one day, she’s going to outlive her own daughter. Then she gets a chance to be a mother again when she and Thingol adopt Túrin, but despite her best attempt to raise him well, he runs away and ends up dying by his own sword. Which means she’s lost another child of her own.

She’s going through the kind of grief that no parent deserves to endure. Túrin may not be her biological son, but his death would’ve really hurt her, without a doubt.

Then, Thingol is suddenly murdered by the dwarves after a fight over the Nauglamir. Her beloved husband, the one she gave up Aman for, is dead, and by this point, Lúthien and Beren are both getting old and they’re also going to die in a couple of years. Melian is realizing that she’s going to basically outlive her entire family.

Can you imagine how that must feel for a Maia like Melian? She must’ve been going through so much pain and grief and heartache. I bet that this is when her Girdle around Doriath begins to fail— the Girdle doesn’t fall yet, but the sheer depth of Melian’s grief is enough to start weakening it.

Being in Beleriand would’ve been completely unbearable for her now. It actively starts to hurt her very spirit, and her powers weaken. I think she realized that if she stayed any longer, her powers would fail her, and she would probably fade away.

Melian didn’t abandon Beleriand because she was selfish. She left Beleriand because she realized that she could no longer live there without the one thing that made her powers flourish— her family.

I’m begging you, have some compassion for female characters and read through the book again PLEASE!

[glorf1ndel]

Which scene from The Lord of the Rings gets you every time? For me, it's Frodo's vision in Shelob's cave in The Return of the King. After shaking off Gollum, Frodo finds himself lying on a comforting bed of grass in the woods. He could stay there forever... But then, he would never complete his quest, and the world would be doomed. Then Galadriel appears and says, "This task was appointed to you, Frodo of the Shire. If you do not find a way, no one will." She reaches out to him. The sheer determination in Frodo's eyes as he takes Galadriel's hand and pulls himself up, bringing himself back to reality!

[mai-komagata]

my headcanon is nobody in tolkien is actually that tall, the books were all rewritten by hobbits who think all tall folk are ridiculously tall.

[velvet4510]

Friendly reminder that literally nobody forced Fëanor and his sons to swear an Oath that they would become mass murderers if this didn’t happen or that didn’t happen. They chose of their own free will to make the most violent possible vow. This is why I can’t stand defensive takes from stans that are like “the Oath MADE them do it” because who MADE them swear such an Oath in the first place? Nothing and nobody!!!!

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

I feel like legolas is the kind of elf that, while he absolutely can take the reins of a situation and lead people, is also absolutely chill with being the second in command. Unless it’s needed or the one in charge is gonna do smth stupid, he’s fine letting other people deligate tasks and make decisions and such.

Legolas walks the fine line between being more of a solo act and being a team player

And you can see this pretty clearly in lotr too, like he lets Gandalf and Aragorn take the lead for the most part bc he knows this isn’t his area of expertise, but we also see his initiative and confidence when he volunteers himself for the quest instead of letting someone else take part (like glorfindel).

It’s also really important to me that legolas is someone who follows orders because he chooses to follow orders. He doesn’t follow orders bc he has to or bc it’s what he’s supposed to do, he lets other people tell him what to do only when he trusts them/trusts their decisions/agrees with them.

[edennill-archived]

Obsessed by the implications that by the time kidnap fam is happening, Maglor is dealing with so much responsibility he never asked for. Basically becoming the person on whom the wellbeing of all his remaining family and soldiers depends on.

Like, Maedhros is technically in charge, politically, but he's also depressed and suicidal, perhaps actively so at times. Even if he's capable of managing the remaining Fëanorian forces, he's very much not capable of managing himself, or the twins. Or Maglor. Maglor is not used to this.

And at the same time, I think this is probably him taking small steps towards becoming the kind of person that is capable of throwing away the Silmaril and living on, despite the oath, despite his father's dying wish. The problem with growing up among Fëanorians is that you never learn how to decide without multiple very strong and overbearing wills influencing you, but this here is when Maglor begins to learn.

He will fall back on Maedhros at the crucial juncture once more and give in to his will regarding the Silmarils, but he will not follow him into death next. And then he will be alone, but he will tear off a scrap of linen, wrap the hand holding the Jewel in it and make a step towards the sea, and the step shall be his own.

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

pretty interesting how curufin tells eol "those who steal the daughters of the noldor and wed them without gift or leave do not gain kinship with their kin," but then later, along with celegorm, does something similar and even more unambiguously nonconsensual to luthien. the phrasing -- specifically "daughters of the noldor," not just "daughters" or something similarly broad -- gives the impression that curufin's issue with eol isn't in the fact that he's a creep who "stole" a woman away, but rather in the fact that it was a noldorin woman, and curufin's own cousin and friend, who was "stolen" by eol. you can certainly make the argument, given that he doesn't mention aredhel by name and given the phrasing of the reprimand, that he's not angry for her sake but purely about the fact that, from his point of view, eol failed to show the noldor proper respect by going through all the formalities expected when marrying one of them -- but my preferred reading of this line is that it's both. yes, he's angry on the more impersonal behalf of the noldor, but he's also angry because aredhel is his cousin and friend and he cares about her. and it's kind of... disturbing, almost, to picture curufin so understandably offended and enraged on aredhel's (and his family's) behalf as he rebukes eol -- only to then, a few decades later, lie to, seize, and detain luthien against her will, the entire time seeing her as just a piece of meat to further his and celegorm's political goals. he doesn't care what a horrific violation of her autonomy he and his brother are committing; he doesn't even think about the fate he's sentencing her to in planning to force thingol to marry her to celegorm. her outrage, her fear, her distress -- all of it means nothing to him. it probably doesn't so much as occur to him that aredhel might have experienced the same thing he and celegorm are putting luthien through