#tolkien meta

[i-am-death-and-i-am-doom]

The effects of having a near-perfect foresight are honestly quite mind-boggling to me, because it leads to paradoxes no matter how I try to approach it (like, he himself is also within the system, and whatever he does affects it, which affects what he sees, which affects what he does etc. no workaround to this that I know seems satisfying) True free will + determinism just don't mesh that well at all.

So my easy cop-out solution to that problem is to throw away the Sacred Timeline. Not one thread of fate, but (infinitely) many. Basically, in my HC he sees (almost) all the future, but probabilistically. Exact chance of any given thing occuring, and additionally there are some key events that act like great attractors in that milling sea of futures (a bit like ta'veren in WoT if you know what I mean) that bind all the fates together and are certain (like Eärendil. You can have 1001 different First Ages and all of them lead to him, though the context can vary. All roads lead to Eärendil). That is probably not what Tolkien wanted, but it seems more appealing than frozen destiny.

Ok, so this was a general definition, which you explicitly didn't ask for. Ehm. So I guess that since in my framework few events are truly certain the question would be what he didn't see at all, even as a possibility. Then I'd say whatever Eru decides on the spot (sinking Númenor, judgement of Eärendil / Peredhel deal, Lúthien permit?) and long-term human dealings due to their non-Musicality (eg. he can't see from the Third Age to the Sixth because it wears down into chaos on that timescale).

Please tell me your HCs for "what does Námo not know (or had not known before it happenned)".

(concrete events/questions, not the general definition)

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

I do think that any fan who believes Tolkien intended readers to view characters as deserving of death, instead of simply meeting death as a consequence of their actions (or that one state-sanctioned execution), is fundamentally missing the ideology conveyed in ‘Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.’

[growingingreenwood]

Here are my thoughts on Elves re-growing their teeth that nobody asked for:

Since Elves can live for literally ever if they're careful enough, I think it's super unlikely that one single set of teeth would be able to make it through all of the ages without even getting knocked out, rotting, or getting eroded overtime until they are flat to the gum. Unless of course Eru made them with invincible teeth (more invisible than any other part of the elves.) 

Personally, I think that it's most likely and the most PRACTICAL that Elves do the same thing as Crocodiles do where their teeth hollow out as they age so that a new tooth can grow into the space and eventually force the old tooth to fall out. Revealing a mostly fully grown tooth underneath. 

I think the FUNNIEST would be if it was like rodents and one single set of teeth slowly grows for eternity, so that if they don’t eat enough or wear them down their teeth get significantly longer than is ‘normal.’ Imagine the weird fashion trends the elves could come up with by purposefully growing out specific teeth.  

However, I think it would be the SCARIEST if it was the same as Sharks where they grow new teeth behind the old ones, and slowly force the older one’s forward until they become loose enough to fall out of their mouths. Could you imagine if elves had 2 - 3 sets of teeth at any given time in their mouths. Fucking terrifying.

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

I feel like legolas is the kind of elf that, while he absolutely can take the reins of a situation and lead people, is also absolutely chill with being the second in command. Unless it’s needed or the one in charge is gonna do smth stupid, he’s fine letting other people deligate tasks and make decisions and such.

Legolas walks the fine line between being more of a solo act and being a team player

And you can see this pretty clearly in lotr too, like he lets Gandalf and Aragorn take the lead for the most part bc he knows this isn’t his area of expertise, but we also see his initiative and confidence when he volunteers himself for the quest instead of letting someone else take part (like glorfindel).

It’s also really important to me that legolas is someone who follows orders because he chooses to follow orders. He doesn’t follow orders bc he has to or bc it’s what he’s supposed to do, he lets other people tell him what to do only when he trusts them/trusts their decisions/agrees with them.

[edennill-archived]

Obsessed by the implications that by the time kidnap fam is happening, Maglor is dealing with so much responsibility he never asked for. Basically becoming the person on whom the wellbeing of all his remaining family and soldiers depends on.

Like, Maedhros is technically in charge, politically, but he's also depressed and suicidal, perhaps actively so at times. Even if he's capable of managing the remaining Fëanorian forces, he's very much not capable of managing himself, or the twins. Or Maglor. Maglor is not used to this.

And at the same time, I think this is probably him taking small steps towards becoming the kind of person that is capable of throwing away the Silmaril and living on, despite the oath, despite his father's dying wish. The problem with growing up among Fëanorians is that you never learn how to decide without multiple very strong and overbearing wills influencing you, but this here is when Maglor begins to learn.

He will fall back on Maedhros at the crucial juncture once more and give in to his will regarding the Silmarils, but he will not follow him into death next. And then he will be alone, but he will tear off a scrap of linen, wrap the hand holding the Jewel in it and make a step towards the sea, and the step shall be his own.

[glorf1ndel]

I am reading The Fall of Gondolin, and in the prologue, Christopher Tolkien writes that the Noldor were "most beloved... by Aulë (the Smith) and Mandos the Wise." Which raises the question: what does Mandos, Doomsman of the Valar, really think of Fëanor and his people, the subject of his Doom? I have seen some fandom interpretations in which Mandos can't stand Fëanor, and it is entertaining to think of long-suffering Mandos' patience being tested by this one fiery Elf. I have seen other interpretations in which Mandos is quite dispassionate, which is also interesting. Yet I think the truth about Mandos and the Noldor is in what Christopher Tolkien understood from the writings of his father: he loves them. Mandos, known for being the most grim of the Valar, is singled out by Tolkien (alongside Aulë) as caring about Fëanor and his people. Why? Perhaps Mandos cherishes the Noldor for their wisdom, before Fëanor leads them in the Oath. Perhaps he is simply fascinated by these Elves, who are so different from him. But maybe the answer is more complex, because Mandos knows nearly all things that will be. What if Mandos sees the future of the Noldor, in Vairë's tapestries or in his own mind? What if he rages against that future, all the while knowing that it will not change, because that is the Vision of Ilúvatar? Mandos is well-acquainted with destiny, although he cannot see all ends. Still, the Noldor are most beloved by him, in all their good and evil and moral shades of gray. What if Mandos knows what Fëanor and his people will do, and chooses to love them anyway?

[serene-faerie]

I wasn’t going to say anything originally, but I’m still really annoyed with that one reblog on my bingo card post.

So let me make this very clear:

MELIAN IS NOT A SELFISH NARCISSIST FOR ABANDONING DORIATH

I can’t believe this needs to be said, but apparently it must. Not only is it such a bad faith argument, but it’s completely wrong.

Melian was going through a tremendous amount of grief that was completely alien to her as a Maia. First, Lúthien became mortal and left Doriath to live a mortal life, and Melian has to deal with the fact that one day, she’s going to outlive her own daughter. Then she gets a chance to be a mother again when she and Thingol adopt Túrin, but despite her best attempt to raise him well, he runs away and ends up dying by his own sword. Which means she’s lost another child of her own.

She’s going through the kind of grief that no parent deserves to endure. Túrin may not be her biological son, but his death would’ve really hurt her, without a doubt.

Then, Thingol is suddenly murdered by the dwarves after a fight over the Nauglamir. Her beloved husband, the one she gave up Aman for, is dead, and by this point, Lúthien and Beren are both getting old and they’re also going to die in a couple of years. Melian is realizing that she’s going to basically outlive her entire family.

Can you imagine how that must feel for a Maia like Melian? She must’ve been going through so much pain and grief and heartache. I bet that this is when her Girdle around Doriath begins to fail— the Girdle doesn’t fall yet, but the sheer depth of Melian’s grief is enough to start weakening it.

Being in Beleriand would’ve been completely unbearable for her now. It actively starts to hurt her very spirit, and her powers weaken. I think she realized that if she stayed any longer, her powers would fail her, and she would probably fade away.

Melian didn’t abandon Beleriand because she was selfish. She left Beleriand because she realized that she could no longer live there without the one thing that made her powers flourish— her family.

I’m begging you, have some compassion for female characters and read through the book again PLEASE!

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

pretty interesting how curufin tells eol "those who steal the daughters of the noldor and wed them without gift or leave do not gain kinship with their kin," but then later, along with celegorm, does something similar and even more unambiguously nonconsensual to luthien. the phrasing -- specifically "daughters of the noldor," not just "daughters" or something similarly broad -- gives the impression that curufin's issue with eol isn't in the fact that he's a creep who "stole" a woman away, but rather in the fact that it was a noldorin woman, and curufin's own cousin and friend, who was "stolen" by eol. you can certainly make the argument, given that he doesn't mention aredhel by name and given the phrasing of the reprimand, that he's not angry for her sake but purely about the fact that, from his point of view, eol failed to show the noldor proper respect by going through all the formalities expected when marrying one of them -- but my preferred reading of this line is that it's both. yes, he's angry on the more impersonal behalf of the noldor, but he's also angry because aredhel is his cousin and friend and he cares about her. and it's kind of... disturbing, almost, to picture curufin so understandably offended and enraged on aredhel's (and his family's) behalf as he rebukes eol -- only to then, a few decades later, lie to, seize, and detain luthien against her will, the entire time seeing her as just a piece of meat to further his and celegorm's political goals. he doesn't care what a horrific violation of her autonomy he and his brother are committing; he doesn't even think about the fate he's sentencing her to in planning to force thingol to marry her to celegorm. her outrage, her fear, her distress -- all of it means nothing to him. it probably doesn't so much as occur to him that aredhel might have experienced the same thing he and celegorm are putting luthien through

[echo-bleu]

Alright, I've seen a lot of different descriptions and depictions in art, but I don't think this is actually settled in canon, so help me with something:

No "I want to see the results" you cowards, just make up your opinion on the spot if you don't have one.

I used round-shaped fruits but we also don't actually know the shape of the Silmarils, so assume for each answer that we're talking about whatever the largest diameter is in your shape of choice.

[lassieposting]

Oh god do y'all want a sad thought I just had

So. About Annatar's line to Durin in 2x03.

Durin IV: My father and I are no longer on speaking terms. You'd sooner get an orc to sit for a sun-bath than get us in the same room together.

Annatar: [...]perhaps bringing your father a means of saving his kingdom might be just the way to earn back his respect."

I'm side-eyeing this *massively*. This isn't just a manipulation. This man is projecting.

Aulë is, essentially, Mairon's father figure - the closest thing a Maia has. And, like Durin III and Durin IV, Aulë and Mairon are no longer on speaking terms: Aulë laid down a painfully obvious rejection during the First Age(?) when he sent Uinen to retrieve Ossë (Ulmo's Maia), but made no attempt to retrieve Mairon (his own). Regardless of whether Aulë intended to disown Mairon or whether it was a bluff to make him come home/an attempt to respect his choices, Mairon understood it as a complete and utter severing of ties and, as a result, made choices based on the belief that he could never go home to Valinor, because Aulë wouldn't have him back or advocate for him, and so he'd have no one to shield him from worse punishment than he'd get from Melkor.

Here, he tells Durin that saving Khazad-Dum will repair the fracture in his relationship with his father. And what did Sauron decide he needed to do after Morgoth fell?

Halbrand: I knew if ever I was to be forgiven, I had to heal everything that I helped ruin...together, we can save this Middle Earth.

He thinks that if he can go home to Valinor having "fixed" Middle Earth and put everything back in order, Aulë will forgive him.

[symphonyofsilence]

What I find fascinating about Galadriel's story, the story of the rebel Noldo who dreamed of ruling a land of her own, actually survived to rule her own land until the end of the third age, and all the while dreamed of home is that it's the story of someone taking all the risks, paying all the price, forgoing everything she had, going all the way, and getting what she wanted only to find out that that was not actually what she wanted. Only to want to go back to where she was at the beginning. Only to want to go home. Maybe it was as glorious as she imagined, but it wasn't worth the price. Maybe it was exactly what she had in mind, but she's got it years after she's wished for it & her wishes had changed since then. Maybe she was actually good at it, but "there's no place like home".

[silmarillionwritersguild]

Tolkien Meta Week is a week-long event to encourage fans to create nonfiction works related to Tolkien's world. Tolkien Meta Week will run from December 8-14, 2024 on Tumblr and here on the Silmarillion Writers' Guild archive.

How to Participate

Tolkien Meta Week is hosted by the Silmarillion Writers' Guild, but we welcome meta about any and all of Tolkien's works. On our archive, the usual rules about "Silmworks" apply, but we will gladly reblog all Tolkien-related content on our tumblr.

You can use one of our prompts or go rogue and do your own thing! As long as it is a nonfiction work related to Tolkien, it is welcome for this event. Note that "meta" doesn't have to be lengthy, finished, or polished. A paragraph describing a wild theory you had suddenly while brushing your teeth is just as welcome as a lengthy, detailed, essay. There are four prompts available for each day of the week. If you want to use the prompts, you can use one, a few, or all of them—your choice! You can also combine prompts from different days.

On the archive, choose Tolkien Meta Week from the Challenge dropdown when you post your work. On Tumblr, tag #tolkien meta week so that we can reblog your work!

The SWG also has a weekly newsletter, and we will include a roundup of Tolkien Meta Week submissions at the end of the event. If you do not wish to be included in the round-up, let the mods know before December 13.

We will not reblog or include meta that violates our Site Etiquette. This includes meta that promotes the idea that some people have more value than others or that insults or belittles other fans.

Make sure to give credit for ideas not your own and ask permission before using or discussing another fan's fanworks as part of your meta.

Prompts

Each day of the event will feature four prompts centered on genre, format, source text, and approaches that range beyond Middle-earth. However, these prompts are entirely optional, and any Tolkien-related meta is welcome for the event!

December 8: theory | infographic | The Silmarillion | the Tolkien fandom

December 9: open letter | podcast/audio | The Lord of the Rings | Tolkien's non-Middle-earth writings

December 10: literary analysis | wiki article | The Hobbit | adaptations

December 11: character study | video | Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, The Nature of Middle-earth, and The Fall of Númenor | books, articles, and meta about Tolkien

December 12: headcanon | meme | The Three Great Tales: The Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien, and The Fall of Gondolin | compare Tolkien to another text

December 13: ship manifesto | personal essay | Tolkien's art | apply real-world disciplines to Middle-earth

December 14: research | list (including link collections) | The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien | Tolkien fanworks (with permission!)

Prompt Definitions

Prompt definitions are provided for informational purposes only. We do not police how creators use our prompts for challenges and take creators at their word if they share a fanwork as part of one of our challenges. In other words, we are not going to be coming behind anyone, arguing that something should be posted because it doesn't fit our particular understanding of a prompt. All that being said, if you read the definitions below and still aren't sure what a prompt means, our mods are here to help!

Genre Prompts

Theory: Share your theories about one of the many mysteries or open questions about Tolkien's work. Unlike headcanons, theory meta uses details from the text rather than original concepts to formulate ideas about the legendarium.

Open Letter: Write a letter to someone, expressing your views on the canon as it relates to them. For example, you could write to a character, the creator of an adaptation, or Tolkien himself!

Literary Analysis: Literary analysis considers what makes Tolkien's work effective as art or literature, considering such elements as imagery, word choice, characterization, structure, and theme. Literary analysis can also consider influences on Tolkien's work, such as mythology, folklore, and other works of literature.

Character Study: Character studies take a deeper look at a character, considering what the texts say and imply about the character's backstory, motives, emotions, personality, and other elements.

Headcanon: Headcanons are your personal interpretations of the texts. They can be grounded in details from the texts but don't have to be. This is the meta where you elaborate on the original elements that you imagine for Middle-earth.

Ship Manifesto: Present the reasons why a particular ship is appealing to you and should be embraced by others.

Research: Share your research on a topic, large or small, in any format, whether your rough notes or a perfectly polished essay or anything in between—or a format totally novel and new!

Format Prompts

Infographic: Present your meta in visual form, using graphics alongside text. Note that while traditional infographics are of course welcome, other formats that combine information + visuals are welcome too.

Podcast/Audio: Record a discussion of a topic or a reading of a work of meta.

Wiki Article: Create or add to a Tolkien-related article on a wiki. (Fanlore is a fandom-specific wiki that is still missing articles on many Tolkien characters, ships, and other topics!)

Video: Share a work of meta in video form.

Meme: When we created this prompt, we had in mind visuals with catchy text that comment on Tolkien. However, the word meme has many meanings and permutations. Any are welcome here.

Personal Essay: Reflect on how Tolkien, Tolkien fandom, or aspects of Tolkien's world have influenced you personally. Note that while this prompt includes the word "essay," any format of personal reflection—video, audio, visual, something else?—is welcome.

List: Make a list of things related to a topic related to Tolkien.

Beyond Middle-earth

The Tolkien Fandom: Create meta about the Tolkien fandom, which is many decades old, vast, diverse, and complex. Note that exploring all aspects of Tolkien fandom—not just the fanworks fandom—is welcome for this prompt.

Tolkien's Non-Middle-earth Writings: Tolkien wrote original stories (like Leaf by Niggle), adaptations (like The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun), translations (like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight), and academic works (like "Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics"). This prompt welcomes meta that engages with these texts.

Adaptations: There have been dozens of films, radio plays, television shows, and games inspired by Tolkien's works. Use one or more of these adaptations to inspire your meta.

Books, Articles, and Meta about Tolkien: People love writing and ruminating about Tolkien. You're considering doing it now or you wouldn't be here! Discuss what fans and scholars have to say about Tolkien for this prompt.

Compare Tolkien to Another Text: Discuss Tolkien alongside another text or texts. Specific texts (like a specific book or movie) are welcome, as are groups or genres of text (such as the fantasy genre or stories that include dragons). Note that when we say "text," we mean that loosely, and you can engage with works in any format, not just books and stories.

Apply Real-World Disciplines to Middle-earth: Take your expertise in a real-world subject and apply it to the people, places, and situations of Middle-earth. This could be an academic or professional discipline (such as volcanology, astronomy, or psychology—all of which have been applied to Tolkien!) or a hobby or more casual pursuit (such as gardening, mushroom foraging, or horses) or anything in between.

Tolkien Fanworks: Write or make a work of meta that engages with Tolkien fanworks—roughly defined as amateur not-for-profit adaptations of Tolkien's works—either specific works or in the general sense. If you are going to discuss specific fanworks, please reach out to the creators first.

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

Wait, how is it that Legolas could walk over snow, yet fingolfin’s host had elves that fell through the ice when they were walking on the grinding ice?

And don’t say “magic” because i’m asking why it’s not consistent. Either elves are light enough or something to not fall into snow, much less ice, or they are heavy enough to fall through snow/ice.

I don’t care about the explanation, but it has to be either/or, or there needs to be a specific reason why one does work and the other doesn’t.

[edennill-archived]

I was talking with Eri about shipping and authorial intent yesterday, and it occurred to me later that the importance even of the platonic bond between Maedhros and Fingon is probably distinctly exaggerated by the fandom (myself included) vis a vis how much attention Tolkien actually pays to it. What do we have in the books, really? The "ancient friendship" spoiled by the lies of Morgoth, the rescue, magnificent as it is, and the short mention of the Elessar (which, I will fight to my dying day, especially in a society where gems are present everywhere, is not in any way undeniably equivalent to courtship). Yes, it is extremely easy to construct their narrative arcs around eachother, but I honestly think that this is more a testament to Tolkien's skill as a writer, than an entirely conscious move on his part, given that it is not at all emphasised within the text.

And no, I'm not in fact saying that the fandom should not focus on this friendship, and most relationships in the Silmarillion are closer to vestigial than not anyway because of the very nature of the book, but I do think that as a fact it bears pointing to.

[alsethwisson]

I have THOUGHTS about how Tolkien, despite being very conservative, made deliberate choices to correct his earlier works into less sexist and racist direction...and how it all is thrown out of the window by ostensibly progressive Tumblr fandom.

It's mostly the female characters, of course. Haleth is the worst victim, but oh my what they do to poor Nerdanel.

Again, they take a female character deliberately written as her own person independent of her spouse - a character based at least in part on Christopher's wife Tolkien was good friends with... and turn her into an accessory for a male character.

Honestly when have you last seen a fic where she is allowed to keep her own views and not run to Feanor at first call?

[serene-faerie]

What I hate the most about Fëanorian apologia is how the onus is always put on the victims who suffered from the Fëanorians. The Fëanorians are never held accountable for their crimes.

It’s always,

“Olwë and the Teleri should’ve just heard out Fëanor and handed over their ships to the Noldor.”

And not,

“Fëanor should’ve respected Olwë’s refusal and found another way to get to Beleriand, instead of slaughtering the Teleri and stealing their ships.”

It’s always,

“Thingol overreacted to the First Kinslaying, and he should’ve just trusted the Fëanorians.”

And not,

“The Fëanorians should’ve shown more respect to Thingol and actually apologized for slaughtering Thingol’s kindred in Alqualondë.”

It’s always,

“Thingol should’ve put aside his grievances and joined the Union of Maedhros.”

And not,

“Maedhros should’ve apologized to Thingol for Celegorm and Curufin trying to abduct Lúthien if he was serious about having an alliance with Doriath.”

It’s always,

“Dior could’ve avoided the Second Kinslaying by handing over the Silmaril.”

And not,

“Regardless of the Silmaril, the Fëanorians were wrong to attack a severely-weakened kingdom and murder innocent people— including leaving six-year-olds in the woods to die.”

Its always,

“Elwing could’ve avoided the Third Kinslaying by giving up the Silmaril.”

And not,

“The Fëanorians should’ve waited for Eärendil to return so that both parties could resolve this civilly, instead of jumping straight to slaughtering a settlement of refugees.”

It’s always,

“The Fëanorians were right to commit mass-murder because property rights are more important than people’s lives.”

Never,

“The Fëanorians were so obsessed with getting the Silmarils back that they prioritized those jewels over innocent people, and their victims have every right to hate and mistrust them.”

Why is there so much victim-blaming??? Why are they being blamed for the choices of Fëanor and his sons???

Regardless of who the Silmaril belongs to, the Sons of Fëanor always had a choice to do what’s right. They were never forced to commit mass-murder, they deliberately made the choice to commit mass-murder. If they’d treated the Sindar with a bit more grace and respect, perhaps they could’ve come to some kind of solution together. If they’d taken responsibility for their crimes and made proper amends, perhaps the Sindar would’ve been a bit more willing to ally with them.

They don’t do any of that. They expect the Sindar to just blindly respect them when they haven’t done anything to earn it. And then they wonder why most of the Sindar hate their guts.

All of the consequences the Fëanorians face are ultimately on them. Not their victims.

So please, let’s just tone down the victim-blaming already.