readinginithilien

[readinginithilien]

Update from Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 10, Of the Sindar:

And at the end of the first age of the Chaining of Melkor, when all the Earth had peace and the glory of Valinor was at its noon, there came into the world Lúthien, the only child of Thingol amd Melian.

[...]

It came to pass during the second age of the captivity of Melkor that dwarves came over the Blue Mountains of Ered Luin into Beleriand.

[...]

Now Melian had much foresight, after the manner of the Maiar, and when the second age of the captivity of Melkor had passed, she counselled Thingol that the Peace of Arda would not last forever.

[...]

But as the third age of the captivity of Melkor drew on, the Dwarves became troubled [...]

This does not give a lot more information - there are three ages of the Chaining of Melkor, and at the end of the first one, Lúthien is born.

During the second one, dwarves arrive in Beleriand, implying that they woke up before that. No other indicators of what ended the age are given.

During the third age, the dwarves built Menegroth for Thingol, being paid in pearls from Cirdan. When it drew close, more and more beasts came and the dwarves became troubled.

Only after Morgoth returned to Middle Earth and Denethor of the Green-Elves fell in battle did Melian put up her Girdle.

Timelines in the age of the trees in the Quenta Silmarillion are very confusing. There is also not a lot of information given. There is probably more in other books, but I'm basing this only on the main text in the Quenta Silmarillion.

Melkor was - the first time - to be chained up until three ages passed. However, how do they even define ages in the age of the trees? Sure, relevant events happen that could start a new age - the Elves arriving in Aman, the Teleri arriving in Aman - but the Valar decreeing that Melkor would be chained up for three ages implies that they know there is going to be a set timeline of three ages, and of course Mandos might have seen that, but we get very little information on how much time that is.

Then there is the fact that the Teleri were stuck on Eressëa for enough time without any contact to the mainland to develop their own language! Which begs the question how far Eressëa is from the main land, given that it's implied they did not return there at all after building Alqualondë, but later all returning Elves settled their (without being given a choice).

I would usually assume that the elves surely, once they had ships, at least sailed to the island directly in front of them, but then, most of the Elves in Lothlorien apparently have never left the forest in thousands of years - humans would never! - and even far-travelled Haldir never got even close to the sea, so maybe Ossë was right in mourning them when they left the island...

[readinginithilien]

It is chilling, reading of the flight of the Noldor in the Silmarillion, and realising how far gone Fëanor is. I could basically hear him cackling half the time. Noone could have stopped him anymore; and for once the Valar actually did everything right, I'd say.

It's understandable of course - he just lost his father after having been banned from home and after already growing up a single-parent-cild, loving his father over all; he lost his Silmarils which are actually intricately connected to his heart; his childhood home was destroyed and thrown into darkness; and he was subtly influenced by Morgoth for years. An explanation is not an excuse, of course.

How he leaps into action with his speech, being absolutely uncompromising. The oath itself. How he intentionally stresses everyone because he knows else they might get second thoughts. His much too short negotiation with the Teleri, being absolutely unwilling to listen to their arguments at all. How he must have ordered his people to get the ships at all costs. How he leaves immediately with the ships, no regrets. How he hears single voices of dissent and displeasure against him in Fingolfin's camp and immediately decides to leave the majority of people behind, not trusting anyone. He is still thinking - he knows for example the he will lose people if he leaves them too much time - but he's not rational anymore. He doesn't consider consequences, he is just angry and confused and wants only absolutely trustworthy followers around him.

I used to not go with the Amras-burned-at-Losgar version, but after rereading this part, I can see it. Fëanor has gone crazy there; I feel he wouldn't even really register the loss of his son anymore. I'm not sure how much of him is left.

(And consider how much of him is in his Silmarils. I wonder if Sauron used a similar technique for his ring?)

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I can't stop thinking about a Miriel who would have recovered fine if Finwe hadn't insisted she has more children.

Just imagine Miriel, who's just gone through pregnancy and childbirth and absolutely hated both, it was an absolutely weird and alien experience, she felt her body was not her own, she was exhausted, had weird cravings and things were happening to her outside of her control and she absolutely, for nothing in the world, ever wants to go through that again. And then there's her loving husband, immediately telling her that he wants more children. And she's desperate. She keeps telling him that Feanor is perfect, that she poured absolutely everything into him, her whole Fea, her whole spirit, it was exhausting, he's so perfect, isn't he enough? But Finwe isn't listening, he keeps telling her he wants more children. And so she tries to describe to him how exhausting and horrible the whole process was and Finwe is nodding and not saying anything and she thinks he's finally accepted her wish. And then, a few weeks later, he suddenly comes to her, telling her he talked to Manwe about her problem - what problem? - and that Manwe said she'd find healing in Lorien and he, Finwe, would take the baby until she felt better. And Miriel realises with sudden clarity that he's taking her baby and locking her into Lorien until she agrees to have another baby. And nothing she says changes his mind, he claims he's just helping her, that there's something wrong with her that needs to be fixed, that this is for her own good.

And so, she goes to Lorien, leaving her infant behind. And she lies down. And finally, she gives up.

But also, imagine the effect on anyone else. Finwe never really understood what she was saying, he honestly believes she's just exhausted from childbirth, that she poured too much of herself into the baby, and then she lies down and just…fades, so it must have been even more exhausting than he thought. And now he's left alone, high king of his people, with an infant baby without a mother, and he still needs to show his people that it's safe here to start big families. So he griefs her, and he moves on. Miriel doesn't mind him marrying someone else, it has been made absolutely clear to her that what Finwe wants from a marriage is a lot of children and she's unwilling to provide. She even likes the Shibboleth, it means that, while Indis is alive, she and Finwe will never be alive together, and so it means noone will ever force her to get pregnant again.

And Finwe tells Feanor that whole thing from his perspective. Which means Feanor learns that his mother died from putting too much of herself into him, that his birth was the reason she died, because that is what Finwe honestly believes. And so everyone believes that. And Feanor hears the Shibboleth and believes his parents would want to be together, his mother just needs more healing, but now it's impossible, because Indis moved between them.

(Also, I am now imagining reborn Miriel taking aside reborn Glorfindel bevor he is sent to Middle Earth, and telling him the whole story, to make absolutely sure he spreads the correct version in Middle earth, which explains why it's formulated like that in the Silmarillion.)

(And again, I don't really think this is necessarily what happened. I don't think Finwë was the best father, but I do usually assume he was a good man. I just got caught up in this interpretation recently.)

Rereading the Quenta Silmarillion part about Miriels death made me realise that I am getting a completely different perspective from what I remembered. I'm sure if I read whatever else Tolkien wrote about that matter would change that, but here is what I get from just The Silmarillion:

Miriel and Finwë had their whole love story entirely in Aman

After Miriel gave birth to Fëanor, she said that that was very exhausting and she doesn't want any more children

Finwë was devastated. He argued that Aman should heal all exhaustion and went to Manwë to ask for help. There is no mention on Miriel being in any way involved in that decision.

Manwë advised to send her to Lorien for healing. She goes there, regretting that she can't even see Fëanor's childhood days - it must be pretty much directly after the birth

She lies down and pretty much departs immediately

Now, granted, this is one paragraph and we don't know what Finwë and Miriel actually discussed. But to me it sounds at this point as if Miriel said "My body, my choice, I don't want any more children" and Finwë wasn't willing to accept that. There's no mention that Miriel was too exhausted to live then, she didn't ask for healing. She was presumably fine with living like that. She just said she doesn't want any more children.

It is Finwë who thinks that he is entitled to more children, Finwë who thinks she needs healing in order to have more children, to get over the idea that one child is enough. And that at a point when Fëanor is not even a child yet, but still a baby. Why not wait a little bit longer at least?

And then she goes to Lorien and departs immediately. Leaves this situation behind. But as soon as Finwë is gone and there's no risk she has to give birth again, she's back.

Now, this is a pretty biased interpretation of a single paragraph. But it fits very well.

[readinginithilien]

[...]; but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes, was eager to be gone. No oaths she swore, but the words of Fëanor concerning Middle-earth had kindled in her heart, for she yearned to see the wide ungarded lands and to rule there a land at her own will.

The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 9: Of the flight of the Noldor

And that's one of the reasons I love Galadriel so much, she clearly is a multi-faceted being undergoing so much character development, yet you only see her in the beginning and in the end.

[readinginithilien]

Morgoth has apparently decided that the very best - and only - time for big attacks is during parties. The Valar had a big party when he destroyed the lamps while they were busy celebrating, then the Valar had again a big party with the Elves when the trees came down, and Gondolin of course was attacked during the Gates of Summer. I wonder if it maybe was Fingolfin's birthday party during the battle of sudden flame.

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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying: " Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!" And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Ëa.

- The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 7: Of the Silmarils and the unrest of the Noldor

[readinginithilien]

Rereading the Quenta Silmarillion part about Miriels death made me realise that I am getting a completely different perspective from what I remembered. I'm sure if I read whatever else Tolkien wrote about that matter would change that, but here is what I get from just The Silmarillion:

Miriel and Finwë had their whole love story entirely in Aman

After Miriel gave birth to Fëanor, she said that that was very exhausting and she doesn't want any more children

Finwë was devastated. He argued that Aman should heal all exhaustion and went to Manwë to ask for help. There is no mention on Miriel being in any way involved in that decision.

Manwë advised to send her to Lorien for healing. She goes there, regretting that she can't even see Fëanor's childhood days - it must be pretty much directly after the birth

She lies down and pretty much departs immediately

Now, granted, this is one paragraph and we don't know what Finwë and Miriel actually discussed. But to me it sounds at this point as if Miriel said "My body, my choice, I don't want any more children" and Finwë wasn't willing to accept that. There's no mention that Miriel was too exhausted to live then, she didn't ask for healing. She was presumably fine with living like that. She just said she doesn't want any more children.

It is Finwë who thinks that he is entitled to more children, Finwë who thinks she needs healing in order to have more children, to get over the idea that one child is enough. And that at a point when Fëanor is not even a child yet, but still a baby. Why not wait a little bit longer at least?

And then she goes to Lorien and departs immediately. Leaves this situation behind. But as soon as Finwë is gone and there's no risk she has to give birth again, she's back.

Now, this is a pretty biased interpretation of a single paragraph. But it fits very well.

[readinginithilien]

Timelines in the age of the trees in the Quenta Silmarillion are very confusing. There is also not a lot of information given. There is probably more in other books, but I'm basing this only on the main text in the Quenta Silmarillion.

Melkor was - the first time - to be chained up until three ages passed. However, how do they even define ages in the age of the trees? Sure, relevant events happen that could start a new age - the Elves arriving in Aman, the Teleri arriving in Aman - but the Valar decreeing that Melkor would be chained up for three ages implies that they know there is going to be a set timeline of three ages, and of course Mandos might have seen that, but we get very little information on how much time that is.

Then there is the fact that the Teleri were stuck on Eressëa for enough time without any contact to the mainland to develop their own language! Which begs the question how far Eressëa is from the main land, given that it's implied they did not return there at all after building Alqualondë, but later all returning Elves settled their (without being given a choice).

I would usually assume that the elves surely, once they had ships, at least sailed to the island directly in front of them, but then, most of the Elves in Lothlorien apparently have never left the forest in thousands of years - humans would never! - and even far-travelled Haldir never got even close to the sea, so maybe Ossë was right in mourning them when they left the island...

[readinginithilien]

Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 3: Of the coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor

From this summons came many woes that afterwards befell.

This is how Mandos (and the Valar, against especially Ulmo's council) decision to summon the elves is commented. It sounds as if not only is the Valar's decision judged as wrong - though we do not know how the alternative would have played out - but actually places blame for the many woes of the Elves later on the Valar.

Earlier in The Silmarillion it was stated that the Valar were supposed to guide and prepare the earth, but that every time they overruled the Elves, it led to bad consequences, and this is the first time they do this.

For me it was always weird that of all of middle earth they just took care of one small part and left all the rest to Melkor, and they failed already there.

Then they obviously took much too long to decide to defeat Melkor; the elves would have woken under starlight with or without him, there is no reason not to listen to Oromë and Yavanna and go and defeat Melkor before the Elves awaken, and Tulkas so much looked forward to it! That was the second big mistake.

And the third was immediately trying to weedle away their shiny new toys into paradise and keep them there. They did convince most of them by means of Finwë, Elwë and Ingwë, luckily, but it still sounds wrong.

And of course it would have been nice if they'd have set their sights on creating light for all of middle earth again earlier. It is very obvious that they knew they'd have to, eventually, Yavanna specifically prepared all plants for the time there'd be light again. So why wait so long?

[readinginithilien]

Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 3: of the coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor

But at the bidding of Manwë Mandos spoke, and he said: 'In this age the Children of Illúvatar shall come indeed, but they come not yet. Moreover it is doom that the Firstborn shall come in the darkness, and shall look first upon the stars. To Varda ever shall they call at need.'

Mandos: sure, they're coming and we should take care of them, but they're not here yet, are they? I'm sure we can party another year or decade or so... anyway, they're supposed to see the stars first, so I'm sure we can't do too much wrong.

This feels like me when I really have to go to bed, but surely one more page or tumblr post will fit in there. I can do it afterwards.

[readinginithilien]

Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 3: Of the coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor

Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Illúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise. And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Illúvatar.

- for reference

(so say the wise. It is only speculation on the part of the elves (of which the wisest apparently live on Tol Eressëa, among the returned elves?), but it is based on sound reasoning.)

[readinginithilien]

In the Quenta Silmarillion, chapter 3: of the coming of the elves and captivity of Melkor it says that things had begun to grow during "the spring", i.e. when the two lamps shown, but the growth was stayed when it turned dark again. Weeds began to grow in the sea, and "shadows of trees" on land, and Yavanna went around in middle earth, grieving, and putting all growing things in her domain to sleep so they'd be in stasis until there was light again.

I am not sure what "the shadows of trees" are, but it really doesn't sound as if there was anything green when the elves awoke (and not much use for photosynthesis, either). The only things I can imagine still there are (a) the monsters of Melkor, (b) algae/seaweed (the not photosynthesis kind, though I am really lacking in knowledge there) and (c) fish. I'll put mushrooms on the list, because frankly, they fit, though I really can't decide if they're things of Yavanna but won't give Melkor the credit because mushrooms are far too interesting to be just corrupted things created by others.

So what did the beasts of Melkor eat? And more importantly, what did the elves eat, and how did they cloth themselves? They were living at the lake, but I really think a vegetarian diet is out at this point; no way they could live from mushrooms and seaweed alone, right? I don't even want to speculate on the edibility of Melkor's monsters, though the Sindar later being willing to eat dwarves just because speaks volumes.

I guess what I'm saying is, of course old fantasy legends don't have to answer every logistics question, but these elves myst have eaten a lot of fish, monsters and mushrooms. The monsters probably ate each other and lived of Melkor's corruption, I guess. The energy cycle does not really sound sustainable.

[readinginithilien]

I can't really take the idea seriously that hobbits are the children of Yavanna. For one thing, she already has children - the ents - and for another, her ents are very different from hobbits; they clearly fulfill different purposes. Yavanna is not quaint and nice, she does not want order and control. She even hates the idea that any race has dominion over her trees and plants and animals. She specifically wants the ents so they can defend and fight, her nature seems way more violent then hobbits are. I feel making the hobbits her children underestimates Yavannna's temper.

So while I respect people believing that theory, it doesn't really work for me.

[readinginithilien]

In the Appendix of the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien says that the Istari came to Middle Earth in the bodies of men, though they were never young and aged slowly. It doesn't say how slow, however, it's been several thousand years. However, imagine if they had been young (what do the Valar know of humans, anyway).

Consider: the Istari arriving in Middle Earth as pre-teen boys. Ten-year-old Saruman instead of being a manipulative wise old man being a manipulative ten-year-old shithead. Allatar and Pallando frolicking off together somewhere while all the adults around are extremely worried. Radagast being a ten-year-old playing in the backyard with all the animals, except why doesn't he grow!? And Gandalf...well, apparently Cirdan took one look at that precocious boy and said "You know what, I have this extremely valuable ring that possibly all our fate rests on. You should have it!"

[readinginithilien]

In A letter by J.R.R.Tolkien to Milton Waldman, 1951 (from the Silmarillion), Tolkien gives more information on what the Rings of Power are and can do; and also explains what he means by power, a word, which he says there, is ominous and sinister except when applying to the gods.

The chief power of all rings - the one, three, seven, nine, and lesser - is the slowing of decay. That makes sense, it's what Sauron and the Elves have in common, they want to create an unchanging paradise in middle earth (Sauron to control it, the Elves because they want to live in Paradise without being judged by the faithful Elves of Valinor and the Valar)

They also enhance the natural power of the possessor, approaching magic, which is easy to corrupt as a motive

They have direct powers mostly directly derived from Sauron/the Necromancer, such as making the visible body invisible, but also the opposite, making invisible things visible. So Frodo being able to see the ring ghosts wgen wearing the ring is less him passing into the ghost world and more the ring just making them visible

The three are only meant for preservation of beauty and do not confer invisibility

The one ring contained the power of all others and controls them, the wearer could see the thoughts of all those who wear the lesser rings. Frodo should have been able to read the thoughts of ring ghosts, Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel, though I guess details are up for discussion

The one ring has two major weaknesses: one is that any posessor of sufficient strength and heroism could challenge Sauron and become master of all he learned and did since he made the one, and thus overthrow him. That was the weakness Sauron worried about. The other is that it could be destroyed (in one place, and with a very strong strength of will), which would annihilate the ring and diminish Sauron to the vanishing point. Sauron did not see any reason to worry about that, as surely the rings power of lust was too strong, and anyway, the subterranean fires of mount doom were unapproachable.

[readinginithilien]

According to the Silmarillion/Valaquenta Sauron was less evil than Morgoth only in that he followed another. Morgoth held him back, evidently. Morgoth is more powerful, obviously, but Sauron is easily his equal as a villain as soon as he becomes one in his own right.

[readinginithilien]

The Silmarillion: Valaquenta

I just read the paragraph introducing Manwë Sulimo and Varda Elbereth, and it's mentioned that Manwë can see everything from his throne, but only if Varda is with him, as she's the lady of light and can shine in all darkness. And Varda can hear everything, but only if Manwë is with her, because he is the lord of wind and air and through him all sound is transported. I think that is near, how they complement each other .

Also: Manwë can see all, but Varda can hear all. So of course it makes sense to pray to her instead of him.