readinginithilien

[readinginithilien]

Lord of the Rings read-through, Appendix A, Chapter I The Númenórean Kings, (iii) Eriador, Arnor and the heirs of Isildur

this is an exciting read because I feel I know little about Arnor, and find it's history as well as its borders interesting

Beyond the Lune was Elvish country, green and quiet, where no Men went; but Dwarves dwelt, and still dwell, in the east side of the blue mountains [...]

How interesting! Another elven dwelling in middle-earth of the later ages, and it sounds beautiful. It does go down to the Gulf of Lune and the Grey Havens where Cirdan dwells, but does not seem to belong to the same group. It is green, and it is quiet, despite Elves living there together with Dwarves. Of course they have their own niches - the Elves the trees and meadows, and Dwarves the mines and mountains, I assume - but they are still neighbours sharing space, and probably trading, maybe even being friends. There's probably not many Sindar there, but I wonder who else lives there. Green elves? Noldor? It must have been an interesting place.

So one of the main reasons Arnor broke apart was the dissence about who would get Amon Sûl (weathertop). Because that's where the Palantir was. In other words: another realm breaks apart because people are arguing over jewellery - albeit this time very practical one - made by Fëanor.

The witch king, already under the control of Sauron, was sent north by Sauron to establish a realm at the northern borders of Eriador (which are never clearly defined anyway), in the ettenmoors (moors are great for witchery) and on both sides of the mountains (conveniently including orcish realms) so that he can build up an evil force in the least nice lands and get men and orcs on his side. I wonder how many dragons, other then Smaug, where still alive, and if Sauron ever tried to deal with them directly?

At this time Arnor was already officially split in three. I wonder if Gondor/Arnor is influenced by the east and west roman empire.

Rivendell was besieged by the witch king of Angmar. Wasn't it also besieged sometime in the second age?

During the wars with Angmar Rivendell was besieged; Cirdan and his people joined in the fight; weather top was razed but the palantir saved; the Stoors fled from where they were dwelling; and Eriador became unfriendly. Interesting times.

The plague also raged in middle earth and killed a lot of people, including Hobbits.

It seems the barrow down graves where made by men before they ever met elves! That is very ancient. Though the evils spirits only entered when Angmar spread its reach.

Dunedain where driven over the Lune, but earlier that was a country where Men do not go. Is that referring to different times?

The Lossoth, the Snowmen of Forochel [...]

The Lossoth live in igloos, they have sleds and ice skates! They live in different camps! They are said to be unfriendly, but I'm assuming that's just cultural differences. They did not value jewellery (well, that is some cultural differences to basically anyone else in Tolkien's world). They did help king Arvedui, though not willingly (because he wanted to pay them in jewellery). They believed the witch king could make frost and thaw at will. I wonder if they were right? I wonder if they were ever in contact with the elves of Lune? I wonder how different their culture and language were, as they lived there since before men met elves at all? They actually did manage to communicate with Arvedui, and I'd wager he didn't learn their language. They also helped him get to Cirdan's ship with sleds, and they gave great advice (that Arvedui ignored)

Arvedui gave the Lossoth a ring that would basically be a favour. He stressed that it was not magical in the slightest. You can see he learned from history. Also, this was - it was said - actually the very same ring Finrod gave Barahir. No favor done for them is ever mentioned, though obviously the Dúnedain regained the ring.

People much later actually learned about Arvedui's faith from the Lossoth, there must have been more communication then I thought.

Two palantiri of the north vanished in the ice, one stayed with Cirdan until he took it with him west. Nice.

The hobbits sent archers to help the king, though they never returned, and others helped in the battle when Angmar was overthrown.

Another piece of jewellery that so far noone fought over: the scepter of Annúminas!

Celebrian left for Valinor within one year of being captured, tortured and poisoned.

Bandobras Took who fought off orcs from the shire!

The main home of the Dunedain seems to have been at Lake Evendim, though mostly they were a wandering people. But they probably had more or less stable environments to raise children, give birth, take care of the elderly and sick? I have a lot of trouble imagining their lives.

So the Dunedain were really proud that the line was unbroken from father to son. Sounds sexist to me. And after Númenór didn't care about the gender of their monarch, either!

[readinginithilien]

What did Gandalf actually know about the powers of The One Ring, and why didn't he identify it sooner?

It took Gandalf quite a long time to find out that the ring Bilbo had was the one ring. There were sixty years until Bilbo left the shire, and only then did he go to seriously investigate it, and it took him another decade to find any sure identifiers, even though he had obviously been suspicious about the ring being more than it seems since the beginning (allthough there were different magical rings in middle-earth, most of them ill-fated), and he had known about Bilbo lying in an untypical way about it for at least a decade by the time of the party - Frodo says that Bilbo told him about it when he moved in because he had already told Gandalf about it at that point. So why did it take Gandalf so long to identify the ring and what did he actually know about it?

- the ring makes invisible: the only one who could have known about that is Isildur. He might have told Elrond, but more likely he or someone close to him wrote it down, but noone told the elves, so that knowledge was only in the books at Minas Tirith

- the ring had its clearly identifying inscription when heated: that is an absolutely clear identifier, so Gandalf definitely didn't know about it before, else he'd have tested it. Similarly to the invisibility-thing, it was likely only noted in the books of Minas Tirith

- the ring gave Gollum an unnaturally long life: he only could have gotten that story from Gollum after Aragorn captured him, very recently before the Lord of the rings

I don't think there was anything else identifying. Very little was known about the ring save that it existed and gave Sauron too much power. Still, it surprises me that, given Gandalf knew about the one ring probably still existing and being a potential danger, as well as the fight against Sauron being his purpose, that he had not tried gathering more information about it earlier.

And I also wonder why Elrond didn't have more information about the ring earlier...

[readinginithilien]

From a letter by J.R.R. Tolkien to Milton Waldman, 1951

We learn that the Exiled Elves were, if not commanded, at least sternly counselled to return into the West, and there be at peace. They were not to dwell permanently in Valinor again, but in the Lonely Isle of Eressëa within sight of the Blessed Realm.

I have so many thoughts on that, and most of them I can't express. First and formost, what do you mean the exiles were not to dwell in Valinor again? It's a big country, you built it for the elves, and there are many exiles! It's also quite often the land of their birth, and they have relatives there! Why? It seems unfair, and not understandable, and not really logical to me. Do they even all fit? What about reborn exiles? Are exiles only the Noldor who left Valinor, or also their descendants? What about the Sindar? What about the Nandor? Who is ruling Eressëa, actually?

It does say not permanently, so where they allowed to visit but told to make their home there? Again, why?

And then there's the question why the Valar think they have the right to decide this. Tolkien clearly implies that the Valar are in the right, but death-of-the-author perspective, they were responsible to take care of the elves and humans and world, and they already left most of the world to Morgoth and only acted in the very end! It is clear in the books that the time of the elves is over, as they can't deal with the change in middle earth, but the solution of having most of them in the Blessed Realm and some of them on an island they're not allowed to leave permanently seems somehow like a skill issue.

I don't think I have a point, I just have a lot of Thoughts. (And I am glad that noone can stop me from Cherry-Picking the canon for my fanfic)

[readinginithilien]

My unsorted, rambling thoughts on The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, I The Numenorean Kings, (i) Numenor

Okay, we're getting a short version of the Silmarillion. Very condensed. Whoever would read that without knowing for example what the Two Trees are must be so confused!

Fëanor thought to restore the Silmarilli from Morgoth by force. As opposed to what!? They were recovered by force in the end, just not by Fëanor. This sounds way to judgamental.

Interesting how it keeps saying they waged war against Thangorodrim, not Morgoth. Don't underestimate Sauron's part!

In Elrond and Elors alone the line of the heroic chieftains of the Edain was preserved, and after the fall of Gil-Galad also the lineage of the high-elven kings. I guess we are talking about pretty specific chieftains here as I assume many of them had more than one child. Also isn't this ignoring Galadriel?

Okay, so at the end of the first age the half elves were given the choice, and only then Elrond was given the grace to sail in the end. No answers about Elured and Elurin again, but something to think about.

It specifically says again that Elronds children get the same choice. Why not Elros' children? In the context it sounds as if it was done this way mostly to make poor Elrond even more miserable.

I hate how he keeps talking about "lesser" men.

Elros was granted a lifespan many times that of lesser men, the other Numenoreans three times that of lesser men. That's nice, I always worried that the long lifespan came mostly from Elros' descendants spreading his genes exponentially, but apparently they didn't all die on him basically immediately, either. I still believe that 90% of the people in Numenor were descendants of Elros by the time it sank, though. It's either that or a lot of incest.

From Numenor they could see the white tower on Tol Eressëa. Given that the earth is still flat at this point in time, the limit should be their eyesight, not the horizon, though, so I'm assuming they could also see the forbidding line of mountains once raised to defend the blessed land from Morgoth though. What a sight.

Why does Tar Atanamir get the cognomen The Great? I need to pay attention if there's more information on him.

The Numenoreans grew in wisdom and joy. Now thinking what "growing in joy" means. They laughed more? Probably just generally improved standards of living. They did start in a war in which they were "utterly defeated".

Was Tar-Minastir the one who helped fight in Eregion? It only says that he sent a great force to help Gil-Galad, not what for.

So they abandoned the eldarin tongue, meaning they spoke it regularly before, but there was a Numenorean tongue, too, different enough that I assume they spoke that every day. Was the Eldarin tongue used only in formal context? Or as a second language that people spoke when not at home?

Interesting, Sauron's servants deserted him when they saw the splendour and might of Ar-Pharazon's army. I mean, they probably weren't very loyal to begin with, but what drove them now?

"But great kings take what is their right." [Sauron] said

Elendil and his people escaped with nine ships, seven palantiri and a baby tree. Nice. Though people that fit on nine ships? Absolutely everyone in Gondor must be a direct descendant of Elendil by the time of LOTR, come on.

How did the population of nine ships in less than three lifetimes of men establish two enormous realms? Sauron's servants must have run away quite far.

Sauron lost his body that "he had long walked in"! He fled as a spirit of hatred on a dark wind. He also couldn't look pretty anymore, and his power was only through terror from this point forward, which must have been hard, as before it was way more through deception and talking, like Saruman's.

Mount Doom has an elvish name! Amon Amarth (Mount Doom). I did not know that.

[readinginithilien]

Thoughts on The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, I The Numenorean Kings, ii the realms in exile

For me most interesting is the parts where the line was broken. A few times someone just didn't have children and then it went to a nephew (after several ruling queens in Numenor, where the oldest child regardless of gender would rule, not a single of these men had an oldest daughter or at least only daughters? I don't believe it. These people disallowed women from inhereting completely.)

These are not the interesting cases.

Eldacar son of Valacar was ursurped for a time and then replaced. No further explanation is given here.

Ondoher and his sons were slain in battle and then they actually made the winning warlord the new king! Sure, he was somewhere in the line of succession, but apparently nowhere near actually getting the crown. So he goes and attacks the king and they actually give him the crown. It sounds realistic, but somehow not fitting to this fantasy world.

And then his son didn't even have children and apparently this time there was noone else closely enough related to give them the crown. I wonder why; I do not believe for a second that all of these kings had only one son, there are several other instances. And women just seem to be generally discarded; that part was not taken over from Numenor.

There was apparently one contestant for the crown, Arvedui, but the steward advised against it and apparently that was enough. Who actually ruled Gondor!? Who did the steward advise?

(As a side note I just learned that Oromë was callaed Araw in common)

The stewards pretty quickly ceased to use high elven names and switched almost exclusively to names of heroes from the first age. Funny. In Tolkien's world everyone has to use naming schemes.

[readinginithilien]

About eight years ago, I finally managed to get more or less permanently over my ten-year-long high school-twilight-obsession and was desperately looking for a new hyperfixation, so I went to the library and borrowed the Silmarillion. I read to the part where Fingon rescues Maedhros, thought "Ah, I bet that's the most popular Silmarillion-ship on AO3 and made it my new OTP (to date the only time a hyperfixation was somewhat planned and wanted). I inhaled the rest of the Silmarillion without paying much intention and enthusiastically threw myself in all the Russingon fanfic I could find.

As a consequence, I have basically all my Silmarillion knowledge from fanfic, tumblr posts and memes and am not entirely sure what is actually written anymore. So today, in preparation for a Luthien&Fingon friendship fix-it AU I really want to write (which would be basically the first thing I've written in eight years) I am going to start reading the Silmarillion again.

I can't wait to see what I misremembered and forgot!

[readinginithilien]

When all at last was ready, Frodo said: "When are you going to move in and join me, Sam?"

The return of the king, book six, chapter 9, The grey havens

[readinginithilien]

Presumably a lot of people have already thought about what would happen if Faramir instead of Boromir went to Rivendell, but I can't stop thinking about it, so here's my two cents without looking anything else up:

The dream was sent (presumably by Irmo) to both Faramir and Boromir, and more often to Faramir. That could be just because Faramir is more receptive, being much closer to the blood of Numenor, but anyway it implies that both could have gone and given a chance of success; and even that Faramir would have been better.

Until Lothlorien, nothing changes. Boromir was pretty much fine until then, and anyway not that much involved in the decision-making, and Faramir would follow both Gandalf (whom he adores) and Aragorn (who he would immediately recognise as his rightful king) without question. Now, after Lothlorien, Faramir would try to involve himself. Other than Boromir, he's of the same opinion as Aragorn: they need to split up. The ring needs to go to Mordor, the rest of people needs to go to Gondor. How many and who goes, and also from where, is the big question.

Merry and Pippin are just tagging along, Gimli and Legolas are basically here for the vibes, Sam will go where Frodo goes and Frodo wants to go to Mordor alone without burdening anyone, but keeps his council to himself. Faramir being less suspicious than Boromir might open him up a bit.

I have no idea what is most realistic for them to decide, but what would be the best case scenario (in hindsight) is them deciding that Faramir goes with Frodo and Sam for maximum stealth and because he both knows Ithilien extremely well and can hope for friends and supplies on the way, while the whole rest all go to Gondor - which should then deviate to get them to Rohan somehow.

Maybe they all help Faramir carry down one of the boats besides Rauros, so he, Frodo and Sam can take it to Cair Andros (where they will meet some Gondorians and sent a message to Denethor), walk from there to the Morannon. As expected that way is barred, but Faramir does know of Cirith Ungol, though he really doesn't like it, he might suggest it. On the way they can stock up supplies in Ithilien (and send another message to Denethor). They might also meet Boromir (though I think he would stay in Osgiliath. I am also not sure if that's a good thing because Boromir would not let his baby brother go to Cirith Ungol. No way.) Gollum would still follow them, increasingly worried, but probably not make contact. Now when they get to Cirith Ungol, I am not sure what would happen. Faramir is definitely the most appealing meal to Shelob, and maybe he would remember the star glass earlier? From this point on it's mostly speculation, allthough they have a chance.

What needs to be taken into account however is the timing. Frodo and Sam were extremely lucky that Sauron got distracted by thinking Pippin got the ring and Aragorn was going to use it. In the best case, this is still going to happen, because the ents need to be roused, and so does Theoden, and Aragorn needs to come by the path of the dead, not via ship down the Anduin, which at this point seems most likely. Maybe the uruk hai and orcs we know are nearby manage to catch Merry and Pippin while they hang back, not planning to go with Frodo and unable to carry a boat?

Then things would happen pretty much as in canon on the west side of Anduin, allthough they don't bury Boromir, obviously. They might still take longer, starting from the foot of Rauros, but in the long term it should not make any difference.

However, Faramir, Frodo and Sam will be much faster without going through the swamps and with Faramir's lead, and they will arrive before Sauron get distracted. That might prove fatal.

And once action happens in Gondor, with Boromir alive and cryptic messages from Faramir, who knows what Denethor will do...

[readinginithilien]

Re-reading The Two Towers I realised how bad Sam talks about himself - and how evertime he just repeats what his father told him. He believes himself to be utter useless, dumb and expendable; the only reason he's still there is because he promised Gandalf. And he has a ton of slurs for himself that he also got from Gaffer. In fact, he only stops berating and belittling himself once Frodo explicitly tells him to, and then, right at the end, when he looses Frodo, he immediately starts again (though in that situation I can understand why he is unhappy with the choices he made, allthough he did his best)

I get the overwhelming impression that Sam is actually from an abusive relationship. The only one who was nice to him was Bilbo, who let him in and taught him to read, no doubt despite Gaffer expressing that that's wasted on Sam. That probably also led to Sam being included in Frodo's friend group despite being the only one not from an extremely privileged position (to be honest, I am not sure about Fatty Bolgor).

Sam is pretty intelligent (though he doesn't have all the wisdom and knowledge of Frodo, likely thamks to being working class and not having the time, and also being younger), he is courageous, strong, talented and a poet in his own right, but he never for a second believes in himself, and it all seems to stem from his father's mistreatment. The fact thatvhe even tries poetry no doubt comes from Blbo, too.

I will keep an eye out in The Return of the King to see if that changes, and am very happy that he moves away from home at the end. Not even Rosie could have really protected Sam's damaged ego from consistent slamming by his father had she moved in with the Gamgees as is undoubtedly tradition...

[readinginithilien]

Upon reading Lord of the Rings a second time I really enjoy how Tolkien switches between a character POV and all-knowing narrator whenever he feels he needs to get some background info in. I just had a long page Sam worrying about the path they are taking, being afraid, tired and hungry, and you see all his thoughts, and then the next paragraph is about how Sauron considers Shelob kind of as his cat, even though he knows very well that she's neither a cat nor his pet in anyway. He sends her treats from time to time. And forces his orcs to watch her antics and then describe it to him in excruciating detail. Sauron basically enjoys cat videos! He'd do great on Instagram.

[readinginithilien]

Saruman Ringmaker

In the Lord of the Rings, when we meet him first via Gandalf narrating in Rivendell, Saruman has a ring upon his finger and calls himself

"Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ringmaker, Saruman of Many Colours"

In a book centered around rings that has to be significant, yet I don't remember ever having heard of the ring Saruman made beforehand, and I don't understand what the purpose of it is either. It seems clear he wants to lift himself up above Sauron, the Lord of the Rings - and he says so directly not a page later. Yet he does intend to use the One Ring for that, I don't think being a Ringmaker himself comes actually into it in any way.

Also, it's not that hard to make a ring. If you're that proud of it I would assume it's a ring supposedly having special powers, or your distributing rings (and I'd love to know what Sauron thinks of that, if he learns of it.) I will definitely keep a lookout throughout the book on anyone else having rings, but I just can't imagine Saruman, even though he was a student of Aulë, actually having the ability to make Rings of Power.

So what is the purpose of Saruman making himself a Ringmaker and adding it to his own titles, other than shouting to absolutely everyone his intentions of becoming Lord of the Rings himself?

[readinginithilien]

Discovering new characters in the Lord of the Rings: the fox watching the hobbits leave

A fox passing through the woods on business of his own stopped several minutes and sniffed.

"Hobbits!", he thought. "Well, what next? I have heard of strange doings in this land, but I have seldom heard of a hobbit sleeping out of doors under a tree. Three of them! There's something mighty queer behind this." He was quite right, but he never found out any more about it.

I have to say, the sudden short shift of PoV to a random passing fox took me quite by surprise. Nothing like this has happened since.

But it also a great example of animals (and trees) in middle-earth being generally more self-aware and sentient then usually in our world.

[readinginithilien]

Gandalf the unreliable narrator

I am re-reading the story Gandalf tells Frodo about Gollum's origins and it is hilarious. Gandalf clearly makes most of it up. After all, there are basically no eye-witnesses or records to any of this save Gollum who spent a thousand years alone under a mountain and only told that story to Gandalf under torture, as we later learn. So here is what Gandalf tells:

people akin to Hobbits lived at the shores of the Anduin - that is an educated guess. He knows that Hobbits, allthough their own history goes only to the beginning of the Shire, have moved their relatively recently and must have come from the east, some of them even lived in the north of Rohan for a while. He also knows that Gollum had more in common with hobbits than any other species, including a love for riddles and memories of a life that could be hobbit-like.

Gollum came from the wealthiest family there, which was led by a matriarch - nope, Gandalf us making that up. Even if Gollum still remembered both his family and their wealth, despite living a lonely, independent and completely posession-less (except for the ring) existence, what exactly is he supposed to have told Gandalf about that?

Gollums real name is Smeagol - I mean, could be. Only he would know, maybe he told Gandalf that. Maybe he made the name up, maybe it was someone else's, maybe it was actually his. No way to tell.

He had a friend like Deagol - honestly, that sounds to me like Gandalf wanted another character in the story and looked at Hobbit naming conventions (Frodo son if Drogo). Other people where probably involved in the story, might as well call one of them Deagol.

Smeagol liked roots and beginnings, caves and deep pools - Gandalf is obviously extrapolating from Gollum living in a cave. Why Gollum would tell something like that, even if it true, is beyond my imagination. And I cannot imagine that as the only explanation.

Gollum's people swam a lot and build reed boats - well, Gollum swims well and has a boat, and if he hasn't developed boat building on his own, he probably was already proficient in it. And we assume his people lived at the river at least. But might as well have been a fisher man or shipwright by profession.

One day, Deagol and Smeagol made a trip to where there were nice flowers by the river, where Deagol went fishing and Smeagol looked at roots - well, that sounds like setting the scene. And I still am convinced that the whole Deagol-found-the-ring-first story was Gandalf's way of impressing onto Frodo that the ring can lead you to murder.

Deagol fished and found the ring when being dragged into the water by a fish - not even Gollum would necessarily have seen that part. It's as likely an explanation as any. And we know the ring was last seen on Isildur swimming through the Anduin.

Seagol looked at Deagol looking at the ring from behind a tree - Gandalf is not a bad storyteller

Gandalf quotes the direct words Smeagol and Deagol exchange, something I doubt Gollum would remember

Smeagol kills Deagol and hides the body so noone ever found it - again, this sounds to me like a warning message to Frodo more than based on what Gollum told Gandalf

When Gollum found the ring made him invisible, he liked to go around and sneak up on people, but they kicked him and he liked to bite their feet - bite their feet? Really?

In the end, Gollum was kicked out - well, I can see the resentment of that lingering, Gollum might have told that

He traveled up the Anduin and ended under the misty mountains after the sun became to strong to him - he must have somehow gotten from the Anduin to his cave, and he does not seem to have missed the sun. The rest I'd call speculation

While all of this is a very good story, we know Gandalf has very few sources:

his limited knowledge of Hobbit history

what Bilbo told him

what he found in the archives of Gondor

what Gollum told him under torture

I see very little of the story coming from any of these sources. So in conclusion, Gandalf made most of that up, partly to have a nice story, and partly to teach Frodo some lessons.

[readinginithilien]

Sauron's dependence on the One Ring

Gandalf tells Frodo in the Fellowship of the Ring,:

[Sauron] believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done. But he knows now that it has not perished, that it has been found.

I find it interesting both that Sauron thought the ring had been destroyed. It means that he believed himself to be able to survive the destruction of the ring - allthough he might have been surprised after the fact that he survived when the Elves had a chance of destroying the ring. It also means that he has absolutely no idea what is happening to the ring, even when it's put on - even when Gollum wore it, he still thought it destroyed.

On the other hand, this is Gandalf talking, of course, and re-reading especially this chapter - The shadow of the past - I'm starting to very much see him as an unreliable narrator. Much of the story he tells Frodo has no surviving narrators and such must be speculation, and he openly admits to torturing Gollum (for information that is not at all necessary to their goal), and that makes everything he relays from Gollum unreliable.

Still, I find Sauron's relationship to and knowledge about his One Ring a very interesting topic.

[readinginithilien]

The lesser Elven-rings

In the beginning of the Lord of the Rings, Gandalf tells Frodo:

In Eregion long ago many Elven-Rings were made, magics rings as you call them, and they were, of course, of various kinds; some more potent and some less. The lesser rings were only essays in the craft before it was full-grown, and to the Elven-smiths they were but trifles - yet still to my mind dangerous for mortals. But the Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were perilious.

I find myself thinking about these lesser rings. They were not the nine, or the seven, or the three, and they don't count to elves, as they were apparently not powerful or perfect enough. But there might have been quite a lot of them - practice makes perfect - and they probably all posed some danger and had some power. I can also imagine that Sauron wasn't very interested in them, and the elves definitely weren't - so they might have led to quite some adventures and interesting stories. I would love to hear more about them, or to read a story about one of these lesser rings. Maybe there were even one or two that made invisible, but did nothing else, giving Gandalf hope about Frodos ring!

(Though I definitely believe that some of them ended up in the mathom house in the shire and were pretty much forgotten.)

[readinginithilien]

On the migration of Hobbits

I've been re-reading the Lord of the rings and just noticed that Tolkien specified that Hobbits lived by the shores of the Anduin - which we know from Gollum's tale that they did sometime after the beginning of the third age - until the shadow rose in Mirkwood. For some reason this surprised me. I somehow always had the impression, that that had just happened in The Hobbit, as this is when Gandalf checks out Dol Guldur. But that is because I have trouble comprehending the massiveness of the time scales in middle earth, and just how old the kingdoms of men and elves are - and how young the Shire, even if it is old by our standards.

The shadow falling over Greenwald, the Mirkwood, , happened in the year 1050. This is also the first mention of Hobbits, with the Harfoots arriving in Eriador. The Stoors and Fallohides follow about 100 years later, with the Stoors first settling at the borders of Dunland for a while - which is where the stories of the Rohirrim come from, presumably. Hobbits started settling around Bree around 1300. In 1600 they were granted the land west of the Baranduin/Brandywine river and settled there, beginning the shire reckoning. The Stoors followed within thirty years.

This starts Hobbit history to their memory, already 1600 years into the third age, with a total of six hundred years of migration. It sounds so late, and short - but that still means the Shire is 1400 years old by the time of the third age, which is a pretty convincing time span - 1400 years ago our nations were very different from today's.

The migration periods are also pretty sensible, comparatively to European history - the mass migrations following the fall of the west roman empire took about 500 years and endet about 1200 years ago. So these time spans do make sense.

It still puts things in perspective. Because the humans during these time spans are much more stable, at least in Gondor. The elves are always around. And Hobbits are pretty new to them.

[readinginithilien]

On Bilbo, the Dwarves and Silver Spoons

The Quest Of Erebor in the Unfinished Tales is quite the gold mine for all its additional details on the quest of Erebor, Gandalfs knowledge and all that. How many mistakes Gandalf made, how often he chose to outright lie to manipulate the dwarves and Bilbo to do what he wanted (but mainly to cover up his mistakes), and how the dwarves really thought of both Bilbo and Gandalf, as well as Hobbits in general. It really makes the Hobbit appear to be the one-sided account from the point of view of a character who missed quite a lot.

However, forever the funniest thing will be to me that Gandalf - in order to get the dwarves to take on Bilbo as a Burglar - told them that Bilbo had stolen his silver spoons.

"A thief?" I said, laughing. "Why yes, a professional thief, of course. How else would a Hobbit come by a silver spoon? I will put the thief's mark on his door, and then you will find it."

Just imagine what the dwarves must have thought when Bilbo complained about the Sackville-Bagginses stealing his silver spoons!