#our amab transmasc experience

[coffeebean-transmasc-experience]

i just realized that i was amab this whole time but bc of intersexism, ableism, and racism, i was constantly gaslight to the point that i just went along with the lies i've been told all those years ago.

my (intersex) amab experience is that realizing and accepting that i count as as an amab transmasc . and this brings me so much joy.

Hi anon! Sorry for answering so late! You sent this in July and I didn't even know this was in my inbox! My bad 😅

Sorry you were gaslit before, but that's so great you were able to figure out who you are and accept yourself now! I'm very happy for you!! :DDD /gen

Thank you so much for sending in an ask, it's always so nice to hear about people's experiences

[nervoustragedyluminary]

It also erases intersex people/forces them to talk about being medically abused and disclose that trauma which is often followed up by dismissing them "well all intersex people are either basically f or m sex is binary and you're just malformed intersex people don't really face violence or discrimination unless they're this one specific type of intersex" - intersexist BS

and basically forces people to out their assigned genitals & forcibly sorts transneutral nonbinary etc people into a binary too

- I saw someone put it like this: "so are you a penis-nonbinary or a vagina-nonbinary ?"

Like what happened to believing people when they say "I experienced X YZ as a trans person" rather than pulling out the Phall-o-meter & accusing them of stolen valour or lying for clout or to 'steal resources/attention from the real trans people' ?

The problem with TMA vs TME transmisogyny theory isn't that it's "divisive" or whatever, it's that it erases & trivializes the experiences of trans men. Categorizing our experiences on the basis of us not experiencing transphobia charged misogyny (or vice versa) is patently false. It relies on a framework that takes for granted that trans men somehow don't experience chronic third engenderment, which would fall apart the moment any of these people actually talked to us about our experiences. It survives on the basis of and perpetuates our chronic invisibility.

[genderqueerdykes]

the reason intersex people need to be visible and at the forefront of every queer's activism is because we are completely devoid of autonomy when it comes to identifying ourselves. no matter how hard we try to speak up on how we are treated, how we are dehumanized, how we are refused our right to say who we are, it falls through the cracks because of how many people continue to diminish our issues, and espouse intersexist beliefs.

when i speak up about being transfemme, and a trans girl, it's not because i'm trying to step on people's toes or speak about something i don't understand. i speak up about it because this is the life i've lived. it doesn't matter if strangers see me this way or not, this is how i've been my entire life. whether or not someone knows i was technically born AMAB and then had my gender "corrected" shouldn't matter.

trans people do not only come in binary sexes- just like gender, physical sex is also not a binary. i am an intersex trans girl , even if my agab didn't stay AMAB forever. I would be an intersex trans girl regardless of whether or not they assigned me male at birth, because my experience with womanhood and femininity is that they've always been held away from me, way farther than it would ever be possible for me to reach.

i've had to take estrogen & progesterone HRT in the past in order to "correct" my masculine features in order to look like and be a girl "correctly". the subject of my body and my gender has never been something i've been able to control. my whole live i've just been told that i'm a girl wrong, and that i need to "Fix" it.

boyhood or manhood weren't options either, that was held away from me with a 10 foot pole as well. i've had to transition into gender, itself, because i was forbidden to be a boy or a girl. i was always too sensitive or soft to be a real boy. gender as a concept has been a source of control and degredation for me. i had to transition into both manhood and womanhood in order to have control over how i identify. even now when i talk about manhood and being a man, people tell me that i'm not a trans man because of how i look. i'm routinely denied manhood, I "have" to be a trans woman only to some.

due to my intersex condition, i'm a trans man and a trans woman, transfemme and transmasc, but people struggle to accept this. there's no reason for people to give me hell about these parts of myself, and yet people still do. intersex awareness matters because we fight to be seen as the people we are. we struggle to have our identities be addressed correctly. we are in the same fight as trans individuals, and we owe it to intersex trans men, women, and people to help people understand that trans folks come in all different types of bodies, and that biological sex is not a binary, either.

we have to fight for each other's autonomy. for all of us. together we are stronger, louder, and braver.

[renthony]

In which I'm angry about intersexism from trans people. Again.

"AFABs don't experience [thing experienced by intersex people of all assigned genders]!" is getting really fucking old. People re-inventing the sex and gender binary through their weird fucking fixation on "are you AMAB or AFAB? Are you TMA or TME?" is exhausting.

I'm tired of existing in trans spaces as a trans person, only to realize how actively hostile those spaces are to intersex people. I don't bother to go to the local trans support group, because my experiences there when I first tried to attend were fucking rancid. Trans people of all assigned sexes and all genders act like I don't belong there, and I hit my limit on that shit real fast. It's exhausting, it's alienating, and it's fucking miserable!

Trans people, you have got to fucking stop acting like intersex people don't exist. You have got to fucking stop acting like you own the concept of sex and gender based violence. You have got to fucking stop acting like transfem and transmasc are a set, incorruptible binary. You have got to fucking stop acting like your fucking bullshit in-fighting isn't affecting people who aren't you.

I'm tired of intersex people discussing our own experiences only to get shit all over by perisex trans people who want to put everyone in a binary.

I'm tired of watching intersex people get treated like shit by terfs and transphobes, only for perisex trans people to accuse us of "appropriating trans struggle" when we talk about it.

I'm tired of talking about my experiences as an intersex trans person only to get constantly hit with endless variations on "shut up, theyfab" or "um, you're TME."

I'm tired of talking to my transfem friends and partners, us relating to each other on our similar experience, and then having random other trans people on the internet decide that, actually, I'm a raging transmisogynist who doesn't value trans women and is trying to "appropriate" their struggle. Never mind how many of my own experiences I've been able to articulate thanks to the support of trans women in my life.

Perisex trans people, do better. Y'all fucking suck! Y'all fucking treat intersex people like total shit! Fuck you for using us as rhetorical devices against transphobes and then ignoring our actual needs and struggles!

I go outside and people call me a tranny with a freak ugly beard. I get targeted by all the same bathroom bills and public policy trying to force trans people out of the public. I get people asking me if I have a dick. I get people aggressively calling me "sir" in public. I started getting called a "he-she" when I was a child. When I started developing breasts, a family member told me they weren't "real titties, just extra fat." I have had total strangers tell me I "look like a fat man" when I got upset at being misgendered. I get "helpful advice" from strangers about how to shave "properly," even though I didn't fucking ask, nor do I intend to shave my beard. I've had people tell me I have "tranny feet" and tell me to "try the drag queen shoe store" when I talk about how hard it is to find women's shoes that fit me. I have been the subject of nasty rumors about what's between my legs and why I "try to look like a woman." I'm not a woman, mind you, but I still get treated as a "wrong woman" by society.

But when I talk about all these things? When I seek support? Trans people of all genders call me a TME theyfab who is appropriating transfem struggles.

I still don't understand how I'm the one "appropriating" when it's the outside world calling me a tranny he-she freak.

But whatever. I guess I just have to accept that intersex people are subhuman to perisex people, even the trans ones. 🤷‍♂️

[hesperocyon-lesbian]

I posted this in the replies of a post recently but I feel like actually posting it so fuck it

This is all purely anecdotal, and I’d love for someone to do a study on this in some capacity but that’s probably not gonna happen so whatever. I’ve noticed pretty consistently that trans spaces I’ve been in lean heavily majority transmasc, particularly when they skew younger (eg college campus trans groups) and that on average transmascs seem to come out younger than transfems. To be extremely clear this is not a complaint, but rather an observation

And for a while now I’ve been pretty sure I know the reason for this. Generally, people who are afab have more leeway for gender expression when they’re teenagers than people who are amab do. This, obviously is not universal. There are many communities whose misogyny includes not letting those they perceive as women dress in pants or suits, etc. However, communities such as those are also just as harsh and violent to those they perceive as men wearing women’s clothes. Whereas, in communities where afab people dressing in pants, suits, etc is accepted, the same for amab people wearing dresses, skirts, makeup, etc is very rarely as accepted.

The end result is this: transfems rarely have our eggs cracked young, because what that often requires is an initial moment of gender euphoria. Dysphoria is far harder to recognize when it’s your baseline, and you’ve never experienced euphoria before. So, young transfem eggs rarely have the experience of trying on clothes that make them feel like the girls they are, whereas such moments seem more common for young transmasc eggs.

This, I think, is one of several reasons that the whole language and culture of “eggs” skews almost exclusively towards encompassing transfems. Our moments of exploring gender expression are rarer and later in life, and stand out so much because of the stigma and insecurity that surrounds them.

I think this is one of several disconnects that some tme people are having with the currently ongoing egg discourse. Transfem eggs often don’t have an opportunity to explore gender presentation ourselves, so we often require someone else to extend a hand and give us an opportunity to try on dresses or try out she/her pronouns or just make a part of us we’ve buried so deeply feel seen. It’s so much of a longer process to reach that point on our own.

To be clear again, none of this is to say that transmascs have it easy, or anything of the sort. Our transitions take different paths, and I think there will always be a disconnect if transfems’ paths to coming out aren’t viewed through the context of how limited our options are.

[estrogenism]

yes you love and cherish trans people but are you normal about intersex people, who are significantly more likely to be trans than a perisex person (at least in terms of intersex youth)?

do you acknowledge that they are directly targeted by many bills that also target trans people or do you say that they're just another group being indirectly targeted by anti-trans bills?

do you say that no kids are being forced on hrt or do you acknowledge that intersex babies are often forced on hrt?

do you acknowledge that intersex people can often have a complex experience with gender or do you just scream "intersex people can be cis too!!" whenever an intersex trans person tells you to stop disregarding their unique relationship with gender?

do you see a post asking for people to listen to intersex people and respond without sexualizing us or do you conflate your allyship with sexuality by saying "yeah i'd totally fuck an intersex person!"?

do you call animals with intersex conditions "trans icons" or do you actually acknowledge their intersex conditions?

do you treat us like human beings or do you ask us invasive questions about our genitals like we're some kind of lab rats?

do you listen when we tell you not to call us hermaphrodites or do you just make the excuse that animals are called hermaphrodites so you should be allowed to call us that too?

do you acknowledge intersex transfems and transmascs regardless of their casab or do you screech about how intersex people are co-opting your terms?

do you try and group intersex people under terms like amab/afab and tme/tma without acknowledging their actual experiences or do you just yell about how intersex people are trying to take your language away? (edit: this also includes very conveniently not mentioning intersex people's concerns and experiences when yelling about this)

do you acknowledge that not all intersex people are white? do you care about intersex poc?

do you care about us outside of the times that you can use us against transmisic people as a gotcha?

[moonshinedyke]

I'm on my knees begging perisex trans people to just be normal about intersex people for once and to stop throwing us under the bus with your activism.

We are not "hermaphrodites." Hermaphrodite is a slur in the context of intersex people. (Edit: I am NOT saying that intersex people cannot favor this term. I am saying that you should not be using it as an umbrella term for intersex people.)

We are not your transition goals, stop fetishizing us or talking about wanting to "transition to be intersex." It's okay to want to transition to mixed genitalia, but the correct terms for that are things like 'altersex' and 'salmacian.' Intersex is something that you are born with, not that you transition to.

We are not your gotchas for arguments against transphobes.

Intersex animals are not nonbinary icons just because of their sex.

Not all of us are multigender or nonbinary and not all of us are cisgender. Again, our experience is incredibly diverse. Some of us are cis, some of us are trans, some of us are multigender, some of us are nonbinary, and so on.

Intersex children can and often do get forced sex reassignment surgery. Stop erasing the abuse of intersex children when you're trying to argue against transphobes. (eg. "No kid is being forced to change their sex.")

Stop ignoring the way that right-wingers target intersex people ALONGSIDE trans people. We're not poor little cis people that just happen to also be affected- we're being directly targeted alongside trans people. They see us as a threat just as they see trans people as a threat.

Edit to add this in regards to the most recent tide of intersexist bullshit on this site: AFAB intersex people can be transfem. AMAB intersex people can be transmasc. Stop using terms coined by intersex people to explain our experiences against us. Stop using our language to gatekeep our identities when you have no clue what our experiences are.

This post is about intersex people. Do NOT derail this post to talk about perisex people.

[patricia-taxxon]

You're anti-transmasc. You believe transmascs don't face gendered violence comparable to transfems, you believe being a transmasc is easier than being a transfem, and you do not allow transmascs to be the spokespeople of their own issues. You do not believe trans men when trans men tell you something. That makes you ignorant and transphobic.

I don't know where so many bloggers on this site got the idea that AMAB trans people are more opressed than AFAB trans people, or why there's a hierarchy now for who gets to determine what, but let me tell you:

You are transphobic. You are ignorant. Learning that the only people you listen to about their experiences are prople exactly like you has made me think less of you.

You do not get to decide for trans men what terms to use, what they do and do not experience, how bad thy do or do not have it, and you absolutely do not get to pretend that this comes from a place of genuine compassion or political fairness.

We are going to continue as we have been, and in a couple years when this TMA/TME shit isn't even or the tumblr radar anymore, we're not going to forget that you turned your back on us when we asked you to listen to minority about our experiences.

You are wrong, regardess of how much "I'm trans" you couch it in. You are not one of us, and even if you were, you would not get to decide when we are allowed to talk, what we can say about ourselves, and what our lives are like.

I deleted your songs off my playlists btw ✌️ there's other music to listen to, made by people who don't reflexively dismiss and talk over and insult minorities. Get better.

bye

[ugly-anarchist]

While yes intersex people can use intersex as their gender identity, that isn't what intersex is. Intersex is a natural biological variation that cannot be transitioned into or out of. It is a description of the natural state of our bodies. It is the same as me being autistic, white, and short. These are descriptions of things about me that I cannot change but are still important facets of my life as a human being. (Obviously some are more important than others)

(While the body can be changed, there are separate words for someone who willingly changes the natural state of their body, like altersex. Intersex people can also be altersex.)

On the other hand, gender identity and transness are personal identifiers that can be chosen. (And by chosen I mean that while you can't choose your gender you can choose the label you use for it) And it is also fluid and can change over time. Gender looks different for everyone and isn't based on any material thing that can be observed in the physical world. Gender is based more-so in what makes you happiest, and the most satisfied with your life. Gender is just as real as everything else I've mentioned, but it's just not a physical thing.

This is why transness is self determined and intersexuality is not.

Trans and cis are adjectives that describe a person's experience with their gender. A trans man/woman is just a man/woman who has a different experience with their gender than cis people do.

But if a person exists who is rejected by both cis and trans people, then what are they? What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to identify? Cis and trans as labels were not designed with intersex people in mind and often do not fit our experiences, but we're forced to use this binary because perisex trans people insist that you must be one if you're not the other.

But, trans people also insist that being intersex is inherently trans. Any deviation from the sex binary is seen as trans. Intersex history is seen as trans history, intersex animals are called biologically trans, and intersex experiences and terms are often taken by trans people and applied to themselves.

We're inherently trans but the trans experience is inherently a perisex one. Our experiences are identical to trans experiences but only trans people are allowed to say that. Our bodies are deemed the ideal trans bodies but the natural state of our bodies is used as proof that we don't fit in with trans people. Trans people wish they could gain access to the violence done to our bodies. Our bodies are held up as proof that gender and sex is a spectrum but if we talk about our complicated experiences with sex and gender then we're called terf psyops and cis invaders.

Where exactly are intersex people supposed to fit into the trans/cis binary? Our experiences cannot be defined in the same way that perisex trans people define themselves.

When an intersex person identifies as transfem when they were afab or as transmasc while they were amab or calls themselves cistrans or transmascfem or transfemmasc, this isn't an attempt to invade spaces we don't belong or destroy the trans community. We're trying to describe our very complicated experiences with gender with the limited tools that we have, the tools that have been forced on us but simultaneously denied to us.

Can we just let intersex trans people have their weird gender labels in peace? This isn't about you, it's not an attack on you or your community, it's just us trying to exist comfortably.

[coffeebean-transmasc-experience]

What does it mean to be amab/coffee bean transmasc, and why might an amab individual identify as transmasc?

To be amab transmasc simply put, is just that, someone who was assigned male at birth, but feels transmasculine in some way. This includes intersex individuals as well. Identifying as transmasc when you're amab typically indicates a unique experience with masculinity that is difficult to otherwise describe.

There are many reasons someone amab might identify as transmasc, including, but not limited to:

The individual may be intersex, labeled as or raised as a different sex than male, making them feel trans. Some may feel a disconnect from masculinity because their physical bodies are not what people would describe as masculine/male, or they are not typically seen/recognized as male.

The individual may have transitioned to or came out as another gender, before realizing that they actually are still male/masculine to some capacity, whether partially or fully.

The individual may have questioned or misunderstood their own gender identity for a period of time, making them feel disconnected from masculinity in some way.

The individual(s) may be plural/a system with transmasc alters, even though the physical body is male. There may be other experiences with being plural/a system that makes the individual(s) experience masculinity in a unique way.

The individual may be alterhuman or nonhuman, whether fully or partially, making them perceive their masculinity/maleness differently than how humans would. There may be other experiences with being nonhuman/alterhuman that make the individual connect with masculinity in a unique way as well.

The individual may be multigender, being male or masculine along with other genders.

The individual may be genderfluid, being male or masculine only sometimes.

The individual may be only partially male or otherwise disconnected from traditional masculinity, while still being male/masculine (demiboy, boyflux, nonbinary man, neoboy, etc.).

This is by no means a full list, there may be many more reasons for an amab individual to be transmasc, but those are some examples and reasons of why one could be an amab transmasc. None of these experiences are "wrong" or invalid, there is no "right" way to be amab transmasc, and each one's individual experiences and journey should be respected. As long as the term is used in good faith, no reason for someone amab to identify as transmasc is any more or less valid than any other reason.

[genderkoolaid]

the thing about afab transfems (& amab transmascs, which are less frequently brought up) is that you can't police this border without fucking over intersex + nonbinary people. some people simply do not have experiences with sex and gender that align with the binary, cis or trans. & no amount of "but it's what's good for our politics!!!" can change that

& like even if you want to just focus on transfem in the context of transmisogyny. many many of the people who use this term are people who present as feminine or identify as women and have bodies that are perceived as "male" in some way. whether that's through an intersex variation or medical transitioning. many have frequent encounters w transmisogny because of this. there is no guarantee that you could tell a "real" transfem from an afab transfem.

people who ID as amab transmascs/afab transfems are not always making a flippant decision for the hell of it. many of us for various reasons have complicated relationships with gender and sex & these terms do make the most sense for us. & frankly i do not care that "transfem" is associated with being amab, i don't need that to change! i get it's usefulness! but a lot of the people mad abt these labels are folks to whom intersexism and anti-NB exorsexism are not significant forces anyways.

[manty-monster]

I don't wanna call any OPs out specifically but I've now seen this trend at least a dozen times.

Theres a large contingent of tme people out there who believe the idea behind transmisogyny is: the idea that trans men benefit from male privlege cause they can pass as men easily.

that's literally not what anyone is, or ever has been saying. that's obviously untrue and makes no sense.

Transmisogyny:

A specific axis of oppression meant to enforce and reify the patriarchy and gender binary that targets AMAB people who transgress it with extreme violence and torture.

Any people who are not transgressing this boundary can benefit from transmisogyny which is a distinct separate axis of oppression from transphobia or misogyny. It is not just a combination of the two.

Most transfemmes will tell you via their lives experience that there is a noticible trend, when it's drag shows that get mass shootings, when trans activists have to use transmasculine people as a "gotcha" in bathroom legislation because we all know conservatives mean trans women. When pedo panic historically targeted gay men and not lesbians, and it is again now targeting transfemmes not transmascs, when comedians make man in a dress jokes not woman in slacks. When AIDS and poverty and drugs kill us in huge numbers. When horror movies like Sleepaway Camp, or comedies like Ace Ventura feature trans women as objects of revilement and fear.

Intersectional oppression theory has always meant we are all participants and benefactors from certain axis and it's our jobs to deconstruct and understand these things.

Trans men are not the only benefactors of transmisogyny, cis men and cis women also do. You just don't get a free pass just cause this particular axis makes you feel bad to be called out on.

Transmisogyny is an active threat to our lives and is killing, torturing, and oppressing many of us in very real ways. It's not "dividing the community" your sisters are being slaughtered. Stop being passive, stop being defensive, recognize what is happening and speak out against it.

[genderqueerdykes]

being intersex and transfem is a fucking Experience let me just say. shoutout to all the transfems out there who feel like they cant fit in with other transfems for whatever reason. shoutout transfems who always feel like if others find out about what makes them different, theyll be othered and ostracized. shoutout transfems who dont fit neatly into the popular discourse on transmisogyny. shoutout transfems who were afab

i get you 100%- this is the exact issue I have as an intersex transfem. the assumption that transfem is synonymous with AMAB is actively damaging our community. i'm actually in the process of writing a zine about intersex transfemininity and how we are failing our own community by assuming that all transfems are AMAB. the obsession our community has developed with transfem being synonymous with "penis haver" has rapidly become dangerous. it ostracizes intersex transfems and post-op transfems alike.

this also leaves out all of the nuance that comes with transgenderism and transsexuality, because nobody can fit into a perfect, mentally curated box. people are individuals with unique attributes and many transfems fall outside of the extremely strict box we've put around it. i saw someone in a sever i'm in complain recently about how folks are trying to disseminate transfem from meaning "someone with a penis," as if that's a bad thing. they claimed that being raised male as a child is integral to the experience and that you can't separate the two, but i argue that there are many people who go through similar experiences that are not AMAB and were not raised as boys.

this also leaves out people with unconventional transition paths, multitransitional people, and so on. there's so much nuance to terms like transmasc and transfem and people refuse to accept that. transfem does not mean amab. transmasc does not mean afab. we have to stop focusing on the genitals of our siblings, it's uncomfortable and just as disgusting as when cis folk do it

i get called and referred to as a trans woman by most strangers i meet. i've had to fight and claw tooth and nail to be seen as a girl and woman due to my masculine body and face, even before puberty and HRT. i was forced to take estrogen HRT as a teen and young adult to "fix" my masculine features. i was born AMAB but then it switched to AFAB. i have to transition into womanhood because i've always been denied it. but that doesn't mean that i have a penis- in fact, i have dysphoria about not having one.

thank you for this ask, i really get where you're coming from. stay safe out there

[the-genderflux-experience]

Master list of all the "our __ experience" lgbtq+ blogs

These are all the active and inclusive/friendly queer blogs I could find. If I listed any that are exclusionist or otherwise bad or are just inactive, please let me know so I can remove them. This list is intended to help queer people find active and inviting communities to participate in and feel safe in. If you know more feel free to add them in the reblogs and/or tell me them so I can add them. Please spread this around, I worked very hard on compiling this list, and this may help people find the community for them here on Tumblr.

🏳️‍🌈 Overall community

@our-queer-experience

@our-lgbtq-brazilian-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Aromantic and/or asexual

@aroacesafeplaceforall

@our-arospec-experience

@our-asexual-experience

@our-oriented-aroace-experience

@our-aroace-experience

@unionize-aromantically

@our-demiromantic-experience

@our-demian-experience

@our-amicus-experience

@our-grey-experience

@our-aspec-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Gay/lesbian

@our-lesbian-experience

@our-gay-experience

@our-lesboy-experience

@our-gaybian-experience

@our-mlm-experience

@our-sapphic-experience

@our-achillean-experience

@our-butch-experience

@our-sapphillean-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Transgender

@our-transgender-experiences

@transsexual-experiences

@our-transfeminine-experience

@our-transmasculine-experience

@our-trans-youth-experience

@our-trans-punk-experience

@our-transhet-experience

@our-afab-transfem-experience

@our-amab-transmasc-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Genderfluid (and related)

@our-genderfluid-experience

@the-genderflux-experience

@our-boyflux-experience

@our-genderfawn-experience

@our-genderfae-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Demigender

@our-demigirl-experience

@our-demiboy-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Agender

@our-agender-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Multigender

@our-multigender-experience

@your-bigender-big-brother

@yourbigendergremlet

🏳️‍🌈 Nonbinary

@our-nonbinary-experience

@our-genderqueer-experience

@our-androgyne-experience

@our-abinary-experience

@our-maverique-experience

🏳️‍🌈 More sexualities

@our-pansexual-experience

@our-bisexual-experience

@our-mspec-experience

🏳️‍🌈Polyamory (and related)

@our-polyamorous-experience

@our-ambiamorous-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Neurodivergence

@our-neuroqueer-experience

🏳️‍🌈 Other/random

@our-queerplatonic-experience

@gender-envy-is

@our-unlabelled-experience

@our-xenogender-experience

@our-questioning-experience

@our-outherly-experience

@our-neopronoun-experience

@anattractional-safe-space

[thehealingsystem]

currently crying as I'm writing this but uh I reeeaallyy wonder when people are gonna decide to leave us lesbians with unconventional gender identities alone. please leave the teenage bigender lesbian alone. they're a young girl in high school who likes other girls whom their mother will never accept and has to hide their relationships, and forever hide their heartache after they fail. please leave the transmasc lesbian alone. people will whisper behind his back about how much of a tranny he is while expressing disgust when he holds hands with a girl. please leave the nonbinary lesbian or just transfem lesbian alone whom is too masc or man-leaning for your taste, whether that be because they're amab or a nonbinary guy, they're trying super hard just to live and can barely pass and is forced to hide or else people will accuse them of invading spaces or being a predator. I know you won't ever see us as deserving of the lesbian label- no matter how much we present like a cis girl or how much we've been discriminated against for our attraction, from my experience- but we're just trying to make it by too. I'm tired of just trying to convince people I'm allowed to exist. not be in spaces, be in communities, exist. please leave me alone. please leave trans lesbians alone.

[caintooth]

From a transmasc who loves transfems more than I hate transmisogyny: If you are AFAB you should not be calling yourself transfem, a transwoman, or a transgirl.

Let me start this by saying that I agree, obviously, that our society needs to stop caring about AGAB. Ideally, we should not be assigned AFAB or AMAB to begin with, and we should all be able to use the language we feel suits us best. If you are both trans and a woman, it does seem like it makes sense to call yourself a transwoman, doesn’t it? Even if you were AFAB?

But let’s have nuance, please. Let’s start by acknowledging this: a world in which our AGABs have no impact on our social roles / perceptions / interactions is NOT a world we live in yet. No matter how badly we may want to simply be feminine and masculine and androgynous and outside of connection to a binary system and AGABs entirely, we have NOT achieved that sort of liberation. To pretend we have- to act as if your AGAB has no impact on the way you are perceived and treated- is an extremely privileged game of imagination.

The most common argument I have seen from AFABs using transfem / transwoman language for themselves is that they are someone who is both, by all definitions, transgender and a woman. This may be because they previously transitioned into manhood or transmasculinity, and did not identify as a woman or as feminine at all during that time, but now, for whatever reason, have started identifying as a woman / feminine again. Or they may be a person who identifies with any variation of non-binary woman, bigender, genderfluid, genderqueer, demigirl, etc. Any identity which is either “I used to not be a woman, but am a woman now,” or “I am a woman, and another gender or lack thereof, too.”

I understand. In whatever version of this scenario, they are both transgender or have transitioned at some point, and are currently feminine or a woman. It does really sound like transfem or transwoman should be the correct language to use in this scenario!

I am non-binary, transmasc, and was indeed AFAB. I get it. I am transgender. I am not a woman, but I am also, sometimes, a woman. I am transgender and I am a woman. And I spent years of my life fighting against femininity, only to find that finally being allowed to be openly masculine has helped me embrace femininity again. It seems this is not an uncommon experience. But I am not now, and never will be, a transwoman.

Because the word transwoman has very, very specific meaning. “Meanings can change,” and “words have more than one meaning,” you say? Yes, that is true! And it should be! Change and embracing of nuance is so important to our community. And nobody should be policing the language anybody else uses.

But that being said, please. Embrace this nuance, if you are so passionate about words having it. People who were AMAB and are women have extremely different experiences than people who were AFAB and are still / are again, in whatever form for whatever reason, women or feminine.

Being a woman who was AMAB has unique culture, intersectionality, and vulnerability. Countless transwomen have asked people who were AFAB not to use the language of actual transfemininity, because it is such a different experience than being trans and feminine separately. Let me make this clear.

People who were AFAB are expected to be and rewarded for being women. If we perform womanhood in an unpalatable way, yes, we do experience misogyny. If we are also transgender, yes, we do experience transphobia. But neither of these things, even when experienced at the same time, are the same as transmisogyny, which can only be experienced by people who were AMAB.

This is because of the patriarchy. Gender Issues 101. Manhood and masculinity are seen as the ultimate power. Womanhood and femininity, as less. So, yeah, I get your confusion here. People who were AFAB, especially if they are also trans or are women or feminine in the “wrong” way, will indeed always be seen as lesser than men, for the fact of being AFAB alone! Absolutely nobody is saying that misogyny and transphobia against AFAB people are not massively violent forces in this world. Nobody is saying people who were AFAB have it “easy!”

But again, again again- people who were AMAB and are women experience a form of violence and hate very different from the kind we as AFAB people do. You know as well as I do that the patriarchy does not view women who were AMAB as actual women. It instead views them as failed men. And to those indoctrinated, that is a crime worse than womanhood. It is the ultimate insult: “They are not women. They are clearly not men, either. They are third. Other.”

AFAB people who are trans or perceived as “failed women,” no matter our actual or internal connection with femininity or womanhood, are viewed by society negatively, yes, but not as third or Other. Because, despite the wording, “failed women” are still actually viewed as women. This is because the patriarchy views people who were AFAB as inherently flawed by mere circumstance of birth. We are inherently capable of failure, because we have already failed by not being born cis men… And cis men, on the other hand, are viewed as ideal, perfect, god-like, and thus not capable of failure at all.

Let me reiterate. Due to transphobia and the rigid structure of gender within the patriarchy, when people who were AMAB declare “I am a not a man,” they are denied the status of woman. But, due to misogyny and the position of men as supreme, flawless beings within the patriarchy, when people who were AMAB respond by saying “I am a woman,” they are also denied the status of man. It is this also which is so significant. They are viewed by the patriarchy as Other in a way that people who were AFAB never will be, because we will always just be viewed as women, which is at least human.

The fact that people who are AFAB will only ever be viewed as woman is a separate issue, with separate conversation around it. Because I understand, as one of them, that we may identify with a concept of thirdness and of Otherness. We, like women who were AMAB, are not men! We feel a kinship there!

But I think I have explained well why our experience of Otherness is not the same as Otherness experienced by transwomen who were AMAB. No matter how deeply we feel third, Other, different, strange, weird? Even if this is, from the depth our soul and core of our being, not how we want to be treated? Society is still willing to view us, at the very least, no matter how much we hate it, as women. Which, like I said, is at least one way to be seen as human.

Women who were AMAB, however, are only ever treated as Other. Not even as human beings. Do you see how this is different? Do you see how this is worse?

The two questions we are trying to answer in this post are, first, why is it wrong that some people who were AFAB want to call themselves trans women or trans feminine? Which leads us to, second, why would they want to in the first place?

Transwomen who were coercively assigned male at birth are, in fact, women. They are not Other. They are not third. They are human beings and the patriarchy is wrong. I know this. The wider queer community claims to know this, too.

But we must not let our desire to affirm transwomen in their womanhood cloud our eyes to the fact that the vast majority of the world still holds extremely violent and dangerous mentality towards them.

When people who were AFAB use the language of transwoman, transfem, and transgirl for themselves, they are equating their experiences to that of AMAB people. They are, in a way, fetishizing transwomanhood. They are saying, “I have seen those called transwomen also called weird, and strange, and third, and Other. I feel that way myself, sometimes. Words like ‘genderqueer’ and ‘genderfluid’ and ‘bigender’ and ‘demigirl’ and etc., though perfectly established and expressive of my gender, do not express to others the quality of inhumanity which I feel I am a victim of. They do not express my uniqueness. But transwomen are seen as inhuman, and unique in their suffering. I am going to associate my feeling of inhumanity with their word, too. I am going to make sure this association continues, so that my pain is acknowledged, too.”

It is a violent co-opting of language. It is self-victimization. It is denial of differing axises of oppression. You are allowed to hurt, to feel Other, and denied of your humanity. But what reason do you have to equate your experience of hurt with a more marginalized group’s oppression, besides selfishness? Especially when you have been asked, repeatedly, to stop.

This behavior creates an unsafe environment for actual transwomen, who deserve community with people who acknowledge the unique experience of transfemininity! Who should be able to comfortably find other actually transfeminine people to make friends with and confide in! Who should be allowed to have their own spaces, communities, and safety nets!

Transfeminine people deserve security. Sorry for the word play, but I literally cannot imagine anything more insecure than stealing language from transwomen.