#orpheus and eurydice theory

[blogthebooklover]

Noa & Mae = Orpheus & Eurydice AND Romeo & Juliet

So, something occurred to me after rewatching Disney's Hercules for like the millionth time (weird stretch, I know, lol). I remembered this post talking about how Mae and Noa's personalities are similar to Hercules and Megara. And then I remembered these two posts from @bookishdaze:

The Woman in the Hazmat Suit

Noa & Mae as Romeo and Juliet

She pointed out how Korina (the woman) may be a leader of the underground bunker, and how her name is from Kore, and we all know what other name the former is also derived? Persephone; the Goddess of Spring and what else? Queen of the Underworld! It's interesting to think about, and I'm really curious about what Wes Ball and team are going to do with this character in the next movie, but I digress.

Which also got me to thinking about the possible story inspirations for the next two movies in Noa's trilogy: the second movie might be a loose retelling of Orpheus and Eurydice, and the third might be Romeo & Juliet (or it could be the other way around, too).

First, the myth/legend of Orpheus and Eurydice.

Orpheus was a demigod and a musician whose beautiful songs were loved by anyone who heard them, mostly by women. However, the only woman he loved was a human named Eurydice. Depending on which version it is, their wedding blessing wasn't entirely finished on the day of their marriage, which was to be ordained by Hymen, the god of marriage ceremonies. This is perceived as an omen of ill faith from the two lovers. Again, depending on which version it is, Eurydice is enjoying some time to herself, or with the Nymphs in a field; but a snake bites her ankle and she dies from its venom.

Overwhelmed with grief by the death of his wife, Orpheus decides to venture to the Underworld to bring her soul back. Since Orpheus is a demigod, it's easy for him to travel down to the realm of Hades to search for his wife. His songs tame Cerberus, the three-headed guard dog of the Underworld, and the creatures hidden in the shadows. When he comes upon the thrones of the king and queen of the Underworld, Orpheus pleads his case of returning Eurydice's soul to her body by singing a song so moving; that it even warmed the hearts of the immortal rulers. Hades and Persephone agree to let him take Eurydice back to the world above, on the condition that Orpheus does not turn around to look at her until they are both in the sunlight.

Orpheus has second thoughts about the gods tricking him that Eurydice is not behind him as they walk. Just before they reach the entrance to the world above, he turns around and manages to see his wife before she is taken back into the shadows of the Underworld. Realizing his mistake, Orpheus begs to try again, but he cannot. Once again, depending on the version, no one enters the Underworld twice while still alive.

Now the ending for Orpheus's story varies, whether he dies of a broken heart or is killed by a creature; however, in one version the Muses take his lyre and send it into the heavens becoming one of the star constellations.

Second, William Shakespeare's play of Romeo & Juliet.

The play that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, had to read in their freshmen/1st year of high/secondary school. So, a quick recap: Two young teenagers from sparring houses in Verona, Italy, they meet up at an event hosted by the other's family, decide they are in love (after three days of knowing each other) and marry in secret. However, someone from both houses end up dead; Mercutio (Montague) and Tybalt (Capulet), the latter kills the former and Romeo kills Tybalt out of grief and revenge for his friend. Friar Lawrence advises Romeo to visit Juliet before he is sent into exile. After spending the night with her, Romeo leaves. Juliet is grief stricken by the fact that Romeo is in exile, and she has no choice but to marry the man who was chosen to marry her, Paris. Friar Lawrence, once again offers advice but to Juliet this time, to take a sleeping potion that makes her seem like she’s dead.

Once Juliet awakes from the sleeping draught, she finds that Romeo has poisoned himself due to misinformation about her death. Friar Lawrence urges Juliet to come with him to a convent to be safe. However, she does not, choosing instead to stay with Romeo and since her love drank all of the poison, she takes his dagger and stabs herself in the heart. By the influence of the Prince, the two grieving families put aside their differences in memory of their only respective children.

Third, Noa and Mae, and how the previously mentioned stories could work for them.

For the second film, while Noa isn't a musician per se, he does show the abilities of an engineer (fixing a fish rack, and the cattle prod). HOWEVER, he does have to sing to Eagle Sun to get the bird to come to him. My head canon is that maybe Noa works on various different inventions while he's training to be the next Master of Birds. If Mae returns to the Eagle Clan, and sees Noa's inventions for herself, she would probably have mixed emotions at the fact of seeing an evolved ape even creating something from the remains of human technology.

Remember: Noa's and overall evolved ape intelligence TERRIFY her.

However, I think the more she spends time with the Eagle Clan apes, the more she realizes apes and humans can probably co-exist with each other.

My head canon for Mae is that it was her entire family and friends as the team that was sent out on the mission in KOTPOTA, and after Proximus Caesar's apes killed everyone, she barely escaped with her life as she says to Noa. And she had to survive alone in the wilderness before coming across Noa and the Eagle Clan village. Like Noa, she is also just a scared little kid trying to understand everything that had happened in the 200-300 years of a post-apocalyptic world. And now, she literally had/has no where else to go, no home to return to (since we all agree on that one head canon she's one of the few humans immune to whatever remains of the Simian virus), until she spends more time with Eagle Clan.

For whatever reason, Mae has to go back to the underground bunker, or maybe she's kidnapped by another human group from a different bunker; but I'm going with the former for this take. Noa can't take the fact that she has to return to the humans, seeing how humans and apes can live together, and he sets out with Anaya and Soona to get Mae back. When the trio arrive at the human bunker (the one from the end of Kingdom), Noa must plead his case to Korina to get Mae to return to Eagle Clan. That her living amongst apes is proof that both species can co-exist. Maybe even offering one of his inventions and/or an eagle egg, to the human leader as a sign of peace and hope for a future.

After Korina hears Noa's case, she agrees to let Mae return to Eagle Clan; now I imagine that instead of the sadder ending of Orpheus and Eurydice, it's the ending of the Hades and Persephone myth instead, the human leader offers only one condition to Noa: that Mae returns to the bunker when the last leaf falls and the first snows begin. Unlike apes, humans cannot survive the harsh winter weather. Both Noa and Mae agree to this term, and they continue living in the Eagle Clan village until the fall/winter. On the other hand though, I do see this working the other way around: that Noa is the one who is captured, and Mae is the one to plead her case to Korina.

And finally, the third movie. The story line we all want to see!

When Mae returns for the winter, let's assume it's been a couple of years or so by now, there is tension amongst the humans in the underground bunker. Half of them don't like this arrangement of a human living amongst the apes in the above world. The Tybalt & Paris equivalents (gonna call them Bunker!Tybalt & Bunker!Paris) in the third movie are feeling reservations about the arrangement, confessing their concerns to Korina when Mae returns. Korina (also being The Prince equilavent for the third movie) tries reassuring them that Mae staying with Noa and the apes is a test to see if the two species can live and work together. But Bunker!Tybalt and Bunker!Paris are not having it, and they arrange for a duel with Noa until Anaya (since we all agree that he's the Mercutio equivalent, poor thing) steps in for his childhood best friend.

Aaaaaaand we all know what happens next! However, let's imagine Bunker!Paris somehow leaves the scene.

Noa, enraged with grief for his best friend, kills Bunker!Tybalt but soon realizes he made a huge mistake and he decides to step down as leader and exile himself from the Eagle Clan. Because a good leader doesn't kill in revenge, no matter the reason. Meanwhile, when Mae hears the news of Bunker!Tybalt, she blames herself for the whole outcome. Korina makes the decision for Mae to stay in the bunker, for a possible upcoming war with the apes and to keep her safe. Mae doesn't want any more bloodshed, and she confides her concerns with the Nurse equivalent (again, gonna call them Bunker!Nurse; or maybe it'll be Dar as the Nurse Equivalent as well, but I digress). Bunker!Nurse feels empathy for Mae, but agrees with Korina about staying in the bunker. That Mae's skills and intelligence are needed for an upcoming war.

Mae doesn't want a war though, she soon realizes that the apes and Noa are her family as well. She sneaks out of the bunker in the cover of night and tries to find Noa.

Not entirely the same, but I do imagine a scene similar to The Lion King 2 (again, another Romeo & Juliet retelling; although, it would be hilarious if Noa & Mae broke out into song, but that's my crazy take heeheehee); when Mae and Noa reunite, away from everything and everyone trying to keep the two species apart.

Noa tries to convince Mae to run away with him, and explore the remains of this post-apocalyptic world, hoping to find more apes and humans similar to the unlikely duo. And create a new village where the two species can co-exist. Mae doesn't buy it though, she confides in Noa about returning together to prevent an upcoming war between apes and humans.

Once they return, they see it has already happened, once again taking some inspiration from The Lion King 2 here.

Bloodshed and dead bodies from both sides of the battle field. The human girl and the male ape are horrified by the war.

They both enter the sidelines of the battlefield, the apes and humans pause briefly when the ape and human are in sight. Mae and Noa each take turns pleading their case, that humans and apes can live in peace and harmony if they work together. There cannot be anymore bloodshed between them. The test of Mae (and maybe a few other humans) living amongst the Eagle Clan works, and there can be a solution between the two species.

But wait, you dear reader ask, doesn't the Shakespeare play end tragically?

Yes, the OG play is a tragedy. However, like the aforementioned Lion King 2, there are other R&J retellings with a happier ending:

Gnomeo and Juliet

Warm Bodies

Interesting how the second one is also set in a post-apocalyptic world, albeit in the zombie horror subgenre xD.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[aunteutis]

oh wait

waitwaitwait

if mark is reintegrated now

does that mean he no longer can refine the data?????

and if he cannot refine the data, he cannot finish cold harbor, which means

he woN'T BE ABLE TO GET EMMA BACK AS A FULL PERSON

[oppkms]

This part of the song Flowers by Hadestown hits me really hard. I'm still surprised that no one thought of making an edit about it with Megumi and Itafushi.

THIS IS HIS SONG 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[almond2002]

post by @/kitthehuman_ on twitter

[field-cryptobotanist]

Charles makes the parallel to their story to Orpheus and Eurydice and Charles might be Orpheus in regards to Edwin.

But Edwin isn't Eurydice at all.

We can see throughout that episode that Edwin is Sysiphus.

Too smart for his own good, managing to cheat death twice using his cunning alone (the only reason Charles could save him was his detailed plan).

We see the exact same punishment Sysiphus got for Simon. Doing the exact same task over and over being promised freedom when it's over.

With Edwin not understanding the depth of despair that punishment puts him in.

And just like Sysiphus he won't cheat death a third time.

Next time he ends up in Hell it's permanent.

Or it would be but the fact that we see at the end of the episode that Simon (Sysiphus) can be redeemed means that Edwin can as well.

He has to give up on all the anger, hatred that he still holds against everyone that has wronged him that only hurts him in the end.

Charles gives himself the role of Orpheus because when it come to Edwin he loves him so much he would go to hell for him and ultimately he loves him so much he will always turn around when Edwin is hurting.

We see again and again Charles making snap decisions that he thinks are for the best that end up terribly (possessing the witch, hitting the bell etc.)

So Edwin when it is all said and done will have to save himself by letting go of the grudge he still keeps about his death

[1800naveen]

WHO CAME UP WITH THE TAMLIN AND RHYS' SISTER BEING LOVERS THEORY?

BECAUSE YOU COOKED WITH THIS!

It reminds me of Romeo and Juliet or Orpheus and Eurydice😢

[whereserpentswalk]

There's no actual proof there was hetrosexuality in ancient Greece, as much a lot of cishet teens online like to say there was. Yes they had a strange ritual known as marriage where older men would sexually exploit young girls, but that doesn't mean they had modern views about hetrosexual love being accepted.

Yes, I know a lot of people ship Orpheus and Eurydice nowadays, but that doesn't mean the ancient Greeks saw them that way. They were very close, and we know he cared about her enough to venture into the underworld. But we don't have any explict sex scenes between them in any source, so it could have been a friendship.

Stop trying to impose your modern values onto the ancients.

This isn't my actual opinion I'm making fun of how people talk about queer history.

[letthebookbegin]

not really shipping anything in severance is making trawling the tumblr tag kind of a nightmare

[toastedclownery]

The God Hunt, part 3

Episode 2 and 3 characters + Killix and 62! I went a bit ham with one of these because it's one of my favorite myths 💥

Once again, I am summarizing these myths and only adding the information that can be applied to the characters! There's a lot more to these, check them out when you have the time (also feel free to fact check, I couldn't make some of these up even if I tried)

Part 1

[cautiouscrab]

Are we as a society ready to talk about how Orpheus and Eurydice are character foils in the game?

Orpheus is weighted down by his and Eurydices death. He’s trapped by it, unable to see past his mistakes

Eurydice, on the other-hand, is freed by her death. Although she is angry at orpheus for his screw up, she’s found peace within her solitude in Asphodel.

This in turn gives the line “don’t look back” a different meaning in Lament of Orpheus, as it shows how Eurydice refuses to “look back” on her past life due to the peace she’s discovered in death, while Orpheus ONLY chooses to look back into his mistakes.

Looking back for Orpheus would mean that he’d have to realize change could be made, even now that he’s dead

But that’s just a theory, a ga- *gets shot*

[freedelusionshere]

What if Demon Chef David

Is an investor in Chef Adam’s new restaurant and suggested poaching Sydney? 🤣

What if he was also an investor in Ever (deal with the devil) and the way for Chef Terry to get rid of him and Adam was to let Ever go?

[paintsplash1712]

Riku is Orpheus, Sora is Eurydice and no one can tell me otherwise!

[flippityflaps]

The movie "The Book of Life" is the Mexican equivalent of the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice😳

[dearreader]

im thinking of what would’ve happened if orpheus hadn’t turned around. like, hik and eurydice would’ve never been the same. she died and he went after her, but he saw her dead body. he saw her lifeless and in grief tried to resurrect her. like he would still be carrying that grief and guilt with him.

or, what if only one of them knew?

what if only orpheus knew she died and she forgot… how could he deal with that? how could he cope with it?

or what if eurydice only remembered what he did? if only she knew she died but he didn’t. but he has brought her back to life…

like, i’m thinking of my novel and i’m trying to nail down the metaphor but now i’m also thinking of what happens after it all…

[twofacedbelief]

janus, logan and virgil watch severance

they have wildly different theories about what's going on

[niko-sasaki-dbd]

A detail I love about Episode 4, is the symbol that appears in the music ball Charles finds and the meaning it has when it comes to his own story.

The relief in the ball, is a lyre, Orpheus' symbol. It was the musical instrument that he received as a gift from the god Apollo, who was considered his father in some versions of the original myth.

Note: In The Sandman Universe, Morpheus and the Muse Calliope are Orpheus' parents.

CHARLES: I found one of those at a maritime museum once. The Case of the Drowned Diver, wasn't it, Edwin? Superstitious sailors would use them to calm the seas.

Orpheus was well known as a talented musician; his music could intrigue people's minds with supernatural ideas and had the power to broaden their thinking to new and unusual theories.

When he joined the expedition of the Argonauts, he saved them from the Sirens' music by playing his own, more powerful and beautiful melodies. Later, it was also his music that allowed Jason to accomplish the purpose of his journey.

It makes sense that sailors used his symbol on an object designed to calm the seas and guarantee their safety while navigating.

When it comes to Charles, in particular, the way he ends up using the music ball (in the absence of a more technical name for that object) is both literal and metaphorical.

On one hand, he uses the music ball to put Angie, a sea monster, to sleep, thereby solving the case of The Lighthouse Leapers. On the other hand, he uses the instrument to save Edwin and himself from The Night Nurse—not just by literally pushing her into Angie's mouth with the ball in her hands, but by causing her to meet Kashina. This meeting prompts her to remember Kashi's words later, when Charles tried to save Edwin from returning to hell by pointing out it was a mistake, and again when he asked her to open a portal to hell so he could bring Edwin back.

In Orpheus' story, when Eurydice died from a snakebite, he charmed the ferryman Charon and Cerberus, the guardians of the River Styx, by playing the lyre and singing. By doing so, he also softened the hearts of Hades and Persephone, which gave him the chance to bring Eurydice back to the world of the living.

It's curious that the lyre symbolizes the power of persuasion for Orpheus, as this is a quality in which Charles takes great pride (he is indeed very convincing). Still, I hope that's where the coincidences end.

That's all for now. To everyone who knows about Orpheus' myth and the different versions of his story, I apologize for not quoting specific authors here.