#or people who dont really identify with gender

[gremlingirlsmell]

nuh uh.

i dont appreciate your condescending word-twisting tone. i never attacked people identifying as femboys. but let's break it down

One could argue the semantics of what makes a slur, but in the end, does it even really matter?

i didnt say that only semantically it is a slur. i said it is effectively used as a slur, meaning it fills exactly the same niche that trap has filled before. we're all on the same page that trap is a dehumanizing slur, right? it is a specifically transmisogynistic stereotype imposed on transfems to third-gender/degender us. but, it's also an identity many people (re)claim for themselves. i just noted it's also semantically similarly constructed like other transmisogynistic slurs like shemale (and ladyboy too and theres more that elude me rn, btw)

One could even argue that calling someone an egg is transphobic.

no :) good job sprinkling this nonsense in completely unprompted. (suggesting/joking someone might be trans is not inherently transphobic. if you get offended at the notion you might be trans, thats transphobia or internalized transphobia. the "egg prime directive" is inherently transphobic, by asserting calling someone "trans" is bad. just because some people have no tact or are parasocial with it towards strangers online, doesn't mean that egg-jokes are inherently bad or even "transphobic")

"Transmisogynist" and "trans person in denial" are not the only two options here

no i don't think so, and in a reblog addition i went a bit more into this. notice how i said "there's overlap"? that was of course a simplification. i think there is nuance to this. imo transmisogyny-affectedness absolutely can act on a scale: for example i think self-identifying femboys who were camab are actually tma! But! they don't get as much brunt of transmisogyny as say a transfem who loudly demands being seen as a woman. another important point is that tma people themselves can be transmisogynistic too, even really vile in some cases. I'm not saying everyone identifying as a femboy is necessarily acting transmisogynistic, but many are. I'm not saying everyone identifying as a femboy is necessarily tma, but many are.

(and if you're a tme person who was cafab and identify with the femboy label, you're not better than someone who's tme who was cafab who identifies as a trap or shemale, etc. you're misappropriating and reclaiming slurs that are just straight up not yours to claim. or to approximate the aesthetics of transfeminized people. you're definitely not using it in a good-faith way, you're using it in the fetishizing third-gendering way in that case, to be clear)

GNC people and crossdressers exist

yeah, and i have absolutely no problem if you call yourself GNC or a crossdresser. it's even preferred. it's just simply not the same as self-identifying with a transmisogynistic slur, right? we can agree on that?

their existence isn't inherently wrong or detrimental to trans people

i agree. no, their existence is not inherently wrong. but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the language used to construct the term, the way it is culturally used, and the behaviour of people using it is transmisogynistic. nowhere did i claim people are inherently wrong for being GNC, that's a whole new sentence.

So what you call "third gendering terms" are always going to exist. Nonbinary, in of itself, is treated as a third gender by even non-binary people.

not what im referring here to at all. i mean third-gendering as in involuntarily third-gendering (and so in turn degendering/misgendering) transfems, denying their femininity, and forcefully placing them as an "other" third gender or sex (like trap, shemale, femboy etc) in society

also, nonbinary is not just a "third" gender: hi i'm a nonbinary transfem who is NOT identifying with that at all. for many it's definitely more complex, and many nonbinary identities dont lie inside of the gender binary or this constructed trinary, at all

And there are always going to be people who use terms for GNC people to describe trans people lmao.

literally if you use femboy for others who dont explicitly identify that way (or for fictional characters; or you hinge your sexuality as bisexual/pansexual/whatever because youre into "femboys"), you're 100% using it in a transfem-fetishizing, third-gendering, degrading way. you are being transmisogynistic, by asserting this identity upon transfems.

it's all about actions, and these are specifically transmisogynistic. i don't actually think the question "are femboys transmisogynstic?" is constructive. you gotta look at the actions of people, the question should be "is femboy a transmisogynistic term?". and yes, it definitely is in my honest opinion. but it also of course depends on how you use it.

i thinkt the core issue is that femboy is effectively a transmisogynistic slur, it absolved trap as a more socially acdepted alternative, and it is similarly constructed to other transmisogynistic slurs like shemale. it's a degrading third-gendering term

that means most people using it, will use it as such. most people claiming to be attracted to "femboys" or calling people femboys, who don't self-identify as such, are fetishizing transfeminized bodies.

and the people using it as a self-identifier, can use it in a fetishizing way, or in a reclaiming it as a tma person way. and there's a lot of the first that are just transmisogynists, and a lot that are just eggs, and of course some overlap

[avenin]

Hey genderfluid people, how do you deal with your gender switching or being less easy to define?

And not "deal with" as in it's like wrong but more the internalized shame of it. Or how it can feel like experiencing one side of the binary over another can detract from your identity.

and also does your interactions with sex or porn or sexuality change how you feel about your own gender? How do you feel about those things? Do you like it or not?

[therealricksanchezpleasestandup]

i hope season 8 has rick hooking up with more otherworldly entities it’s really euphoric for me

[schizowitchic]

also like i partially found out i might be intersex because i was looking at trans stuff and there was like "(however many) months on t and finally seeing some bottom growth" and like pictures of t-dicks and i was like.... um.... that's kind of just what my clit looks like anyways. so i was like "hey google give me a quick rundown on this" and learned what clitoromegaly was and then i was like. hm. intersex resources. and it's like a sign? symptom? side-effect? of certain intersex conditions

[alchemiclee]

I think doing shipping through and aroace lens makes things complicated but also interesting. I think one reason I don't enjoy straight ships as much is because it's very rare for people write/talk about them with a queerplatonic dynamic. straight romance is so "normalized" in society, it's hard to get any other dynamic out of those ships from other people in conversation or writing. it's mostly always romantic. (especially when "guys and girls can't be *just* friends" is extremely common and has ruined mamy of my own friendships) but I enjoy a handful of a straight ship with that dynamic. it's just way more rare to see talked about than gay ones from my observation. anyway point is, more queerplatonic type ships and stuff please! those aren't explored enough!

[barnbridges]

sorry to be mean on main but autogynephilia is so stupid because it fully um. tries to make it a gendered problem that someone who shouldn't undergo gender transition is seeking to because of other health concerns. like brother it's not an illness by itself stop trying to make it happen.

[wingstobetorn]

I am still so confused on whether I'm asexual or not.

[transmaverique]

gonna be honest I see anyone talking about this "my gender is more complicated than yours" shit as someone who genuinely cannot comprehend that other people that don't share certain traits with them can still in fact have rich interior lives. as an agender trans woman who uses she/her I've never had anyone say it to me who wasn't (usually unknowingly) transmisogynistic

see but im not talking about "rich interior lives" and the assumption that i am is exactly what im talking about. i am talking about the actual physical way that reality treats and percieves me in comparison to the way it treats and percieves you. saying my gender is "more complex" means to me that i am physically incapable of existing in a strictly binary world and that there is no thing i can pass as bc "binary man" and "binary woman" are both incorrect for me. and the Cisiety in question does not allow androgyny to exist - it is exclusively the timeframe people have to decide whether they think you are a cisman or a ciswoman, or a failure and a freak. i dont subscribe to that "binary privilege" shit, thats not how privilege works. but there are differences in the ways both you and i can navigate this strictly binary Cisiety!!! and those differences deserve to be named, imo

like. again. i dont have to comfort you about your own internal sense of gender before youll listen to me about my experiences in the real world as genderqueer. as a different sort of transsexual than you.

(and bc i Know what binary ppl love to say: i know not everyone is 'capable of passing'. what i am talking about specifically is the difference between being unable to pass as a cis woman or a cis man vs being unable to pass bc what i am does not exist AT ALL in a binary society, and both of those things are incorrect ans unattainable.)

(anyways if that language is too imperfect for you thats like fine but. its just confusing to me, i dont get why its hard to understand what we are talking about here. our experiences w our nonbinary genders are completely different! why do i have to discuss them like theyre the same?)

[magnoliamyrrh]

okay enough of the rants im logging off last thing ill say is that identity politics is largely a disease 👍 its point with the extremism its been taken to in part due to cia postmodernism being to wreck class conciousness though the wokeificstion of fragmentory policies and identity👍 bipartisan politics also serve to divide the country (all countries) incresingly so that people cant come together👍 having the worlds most stupid useless fragmentory identity politics discussions doesnt help it keeps us from coming together and focusing on real shit 👍wars pit the resources and labour of the working class against each other for the benefit of the rich 👍"im iranian youre american, you and i have more in common with each other than our governments with us, and our governments are more similar etc etc."👍 if racism stopped and if sexism stopped and if classism between the working classes (which, everyone has forgotten what the term "working class" means, its not abt economic bracket, low, middle, and higher class can all b working class yes including the doctor whose making a lot of money bc it is the exhange of labour for wages) stopped the working class could stand united not divided aginst the system 👍differences in race, class, and sex have Always been used to pit the working classes against each other, and to give people a sense of "well at least were better than Those people" (opressed middle class disdain for lower class, opressed mens disdain for women (at least they have power over someone!), opressed peoples disdain for other opressed peoples)

i may bitch and complain about kinds of people on here bc its a way for me to get my frustrations out, but ultimately i do think it is vitally important to have hope and to try to bring unity between people. ultimately i think it is unity which is the only way this planet, species, and every other species on this planet may see a better futute. ultimately, more than anything, i think despite everything we, for everyones sake, have to understand the deep interconnected nature of everything, have to truly understand that one cannot be free without all, and have to try to build bridges.... it is very easy both as both members of the opressive and opressed class (and yes most ppl occupy both in some way) to fall into disdain, fear, and wants of separatism. ive done it plenty myself and at times i still do. trying to "be better" is absolutely exhausting. but. i do truly believe that we have to try. i do not believe hatred is forever. not classism not racism not sexism not abelism not anything. it is not a curse people are doomed to from birth. people can change, we all can. we at least have to try

[worldofgoo]

i hate being asked my pronouns in public areas so much lol. leave me alone. yeah in that case id rather people just guessed.

[2023austingp]

I was late to a 9 am lecture on funny enough homosexuality in the context of ancient Greece and if we can even call it but that this this that and the 3rd because i spent the night before agonising over weather i was bi lesbian or just have ab inability to love before remembering the promise i made to my self at 15 that i was not supposed to care actually.

idk if im actually bi or nit but i have an 8 am class tomorrow cant worry about that

[yelloworangesoda]

my take on tme and tma as labels are that saying im tme doesnt tell people my genitals any more than saying. im trans. right

[themindelectricdemo4]

Ok I feel bad I rbed some genders & they're cool but ops seem weirdly interested in policing plurality & listen the gender has nothing to do with plurality so.......I'm just rbing it anyways...sorry that's evil but idrc. For the record plurality is weird, identify however, I am just here

[emlos]

.

[ot3]

i do fundamentally agree with the idea that stuff like 'man' and 'women' dont have to be mutually exclusive, people can identify as whatever they want, and gender is there to be played around with as much as anyone likes. but i do feel like we're seeing a trend amongst some subsets of people where they can't hold those beliefs and Also accept the fact that as it stands 'woman' is still a very real and important political class of people. like it really would be great if we were in a place culturally where gender categorizations werent very politically relevant. but they clearly are. and i feel like a lot of people in an attempt to find an understanding of gender that makes them more comfortable have subconsciously kind of abandoned a framework that calls for a structured women's lib movement.

and it's like, on one side you have large swathes of the population who still aren't fully sold on the whole 'women are people' thing. and then on the other side you have a group who correctly understand that the whole gender thing is pretty bullshit. but then, instead of using feminism as a platform to try and build towards a world that reflects those ideals politically they have just kind of retreated fully into idpol and abandoned the scraps of the feminist framework to the radfems to re-appropriate into. fucking. nouveau phrenology.

it just sucks man it feels like we're sort of at an all time low in regards to public interest in meaningful feminism that i've witnessed in my lifetime.

[transmaverique]

you're assuming a lot about binary trans people, and if anything it makes me think that our understandings of our genders aren't actually that different? Not every binary trans person wants to pass as a cis person. I don't want to pass as a cis woman, I want people to understand me for what I am, a collection of internal beliefs and thoughts that I've constructed an identity with. It sounds like we both have created identities for ourselves! If you think that non binary people are the only people capable of creating their own identities and striving to be seen as them, that's on you

im gonna try one more time. i cant really tell if youre being sarcastic or not so im gonna assume youre being genuine when you say you think we have similar understandings of gender. but to me it sounds like you are deliberately ignoring the Actual Words i am saying.

we need words to describe our experiences, both different and common ones. those words may be in themselves faulty or somewhat inaccurate, but they are what we have to discuss important concepts, and they function well enough if they have a generally agreed-upon meaning. right?

so. the dominant culture of the imperial core is one of strictly binary sex. anything that breaks this, is deviant of the "rules of nature", to this dominant culture. right?

so then we call people who are NOT of this binary system multiple different things depending on cultural context and personal identity and personal circumstance. right?

'nonbinary' is only one of those words. to each individual it may mean any one of hundreds upon thousands of different things. everyone has their own personal identity, and while we may use the same word to describe said identity, no two people will have the same definition.

this is true of 'manhood' and 'womanhood' as well. every individual, cis trans both neither intersex perisex and so on and so forth, every single one of them has different PERSONAL interpretations of these words and the concepts they are meant to describe.

but 'woman' has to mean something in order to function as a real concept. it has to have some semblance of shared meaning, shared experience, shared conceptual feeling and vibe, for it to work within the imperial core as a means of systemic control and oppression, for it to work as a communicable identity, and for it to function as a word in a language.

in the same vein of thought, 'binary' is a word we are using to describe someone whose gender, in some way, shape, or form, fits into the schema of 'man and woman'. your internal definition of your own gender does not actually matter very much to other people who do not know it exists.

for me, it matters that i am percieved as a binary gender no matter what i do. it matters, and hurts, a lot. and for some people, it matters and hurts less. for some people, it matters and hurts not at all.

whether you consider yourself binary or not is entirely up to you and how you interpret your own navigation of the world. its very strange to act as if im saying anything otherwise. YOU defined YOURSELF as binary in your responding to me. you said you were also agender, so, like i said in my prev tags, i dont think youre the target audience. but the way youre reacting, it seems you think you are. i am also going to reiterate that 'binary' is not a bad thing to be - binary trans people and for that matter, binary cis people, are not my enemies. but i deserve to have the language to talk about my experiences as they compare to binary people. that's all it is.