#oppositional defiant

[equalperson]

i think we should always take predominant sexes and races for psychiatric disabilities into question.

are men really more likely to be antisocial or narcissistic, or are women just overlooked because ASPD/NPD are seen as too "aggressive" for them?

are women really more likely to be borderline or histrionic, or are they just seen as so "hysterical" that they have to be feminine?

are black people more likely to have schizophrenia or ODD, or are labels of "psychosis" and "defiance" simply used to further dismiss, oppress, and imprison BIPOC?

are white people more likely to have autism and ADHD, or are doctors just more willing to accept that white children are disabled and not just "bad?"

oppressive biases are everywhere in psychiatry. never take psychiatric demographics at face value.

[autball]

Contrary to popular belief, “hating praise” is not just a PDA thing. There are many reasons it could not sit right with someone.

It’s also assumed that people like this just hate all praise, but that’s not true either. What we hate is feeling manipulated, or lied to, or monitored, etc.

I mean, do you realize how much adults are encouraged to use praise to manipulate kids and people in care?? We’re supposed to use it to get more of the behaviors we like, and to promote a “growth mindset,” and to encourage them to stick with activities we think are good for them, and so on and so on.

That’s so much trying to get people to do what we want them to do! Is it really any wonder that praise could end up feeling disingenuous and manipulative after a while? How often are we just genuinely appreciating something they’ve done or who they are as a person, and how are they to know the difference?

If you have someone in your life who reacts badly when you praise them, maybe take a look at your motivations or the way you’re doing it instead of assuming they are the one with the problem. Maybe there’s something like low self esteem or rejection sensitivity skewing their perception, or maybe their perception is just fine and they’re picking up on your ulterior motives (and they don’t appreciate it!).

And please know that you don’t have to withdraw all praise. Everyone wants to feel like they’re good at *something* and that people like what they do. Just wait until it’s wanted, and make sure it’s genuine, with no expectations attached.

[drawfee-quot3s]

anyone can become chilchuck

- karina

[existennialmemes]

[shouting-epicenities-at-you]

Mental health professionals: "we must never diagnose a kid with certain mental illnesses lest it negatively influence their self image."

Also mental health professionals: "We're making a special diagnosis just for kids. It's called 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder.' We will also treat the idea that the behaviors meeting the neglectfully behaviorist criteria for this disorder could be caused or worsened by trauma as a begrudged afterthought. Also, the criteria will be vague and emotionally loaded enough to make it look like any kid at we could diagnose with this disorder is Doing It On Purpose."

Mental health professionals: :)

[anonymousmoth43]

Damian Wayne has trauma induced Oppositional Defiant Disorder and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. The google definition of ODD is stupid btw, it basically says ODD is just tantrums and having outbursts which isn’t true. Things like staying up past my old bedtime to feel like I have control over my life, letting assignments get overdue then completing them with good grades because teachers said I can’t be turning things in late or else I’ll get behind and fail, and refusing to clean if someone told me to while I was already cleaning, were all signs of ODD which can be signs to other things or just basic angst but mine were directly correlated to ODD. Damian is an extremely complex character and his need to fight to prove he can along with a million other things are so ODD that I’m 100% convinced he has it.

[aspd-culture]

Heya, idk if this is a valid question or is really dumb, but like, does the age at which ASPD behavior starts to show have to be strictly 15?

I have been wondering whether I should get officially diagnosed, since the media and general societal representation of it doesn’t seem as reflecting of me (with exception of a few) but I do relate extremely closely to most of the diagnosing criteria. Although??? The physical aggression thing?? Like I have those impulses and plenty of them, but I just don’t follow through with most because of convenience. That sort of thing is one of the main things that makes me doubt whether I do actually have it. (Same with impulsive behaviors etc)

But my main point/ask is the age thing. As a very young child I was pretty sweet? Ig? Like I wasn’t an aggressive child, rather pretty passive. As far as I recall, my symptoms started when I was about 15-16, when I was starting to process that mine was a traumatic situation? and earlier than that I was just an edgy teen, I guess? I sure had some of the symptons way earlier, but the main ones/ the ones that I feel are more prominent in me didn’t show up until a bit later? I’m not sure. So my question is, does it mean it can’t be ASPD?

Also your page is lifesaving. Thanks man.

Note: due to the way copy and pasting criteria works on tumblr, this post will be written exclusively in plain text, as copying and pasting it all over again would take forever, but I want this post to be accessible still.

I haaaate the way the DSM phrases criteria. Absolutely no worries, it is confusing as heck and you wouldn't be the first person at all to ask about this.

So, the symptoms of Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder (DSM criteria below) need to show by or before the age of 15. (I do not know if Intermittent Explosive Disorder satisfies this criteria, but it very well may.) That means they may start when you're a toddler, or they may start when you're 14.5. Anywhere in there, you have to qualify for one of those two disorders, but you also do not have to have been diagnosed with them.

Also, having had been an "edgy teen" definitely could have been those symptoms showing themselves. The reason ASPD can't be diagnosed before 18 is because teenage edginess could either be symptoms or be normal, and the only real way to tell is if it continues past teenage and into adulthood.

The diagnostic criteria of Oppostional Defiant Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:

A. A pattern of angry/iritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least 6 months as evidenced by at least four symptoms from any of the following categories, and exhibited during interaction with at least one individual who is not a sibling.

Angry/lrritable Mood

1. Often loses temper

2. Is often touchy or easily annoyed

3. Is often angry and resentful.

Argumentative/Defiant Behavior

4. Often argues with authority figures or, for children and adolescents, with adults.

5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules

6. Often deliberately annoys others

7. Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior.

Vindictiveness

8. Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months

Note: The persistence and frequency of these behaviors should be used to distinguish a behavior that is within normal limits from a behavior that is symptomatic. For children younger than 5 years, the behavior should occur on most days for a period of at least 6 months unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). For individuals 5 years or older, the behavior should occur at least once per week for at least 6 months, unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). While these frequency criteria provide guidance on a minimal level of frequency to define symptoms, other factors should also be considered, such as whether the frequency and intensity of the behaviors are outside a range that is normative for the individual's developmental level, gender, and culture.

B. The disturbance in behavior is associated with distress in the individual or others in his or her immediate social context (e.g., family, peer group, work colleagues), or it impacts negatively on social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

C. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a psychotic substance use, depressive, or bipolar disorder. Also, the criteria are not met for disruptive mood dysregulation disorder.

[End quote]

Conduct disorder's criteria more clearly shows the lead-in to ASPD.

The diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:

A. A repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated, as manifested by the presence of at least three of the following 15 criteria in the past 12 months from any of the categories below, with at least one criterion present in the past 6 months:

Aggression to People and Animals

1. Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others.

2. Often initiates physical fights.

3. Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)

4. Has been physically cruel to people

5. Has been physically cruel to animals

6. Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)

7. Has forced someone into sexual activity

Destruction of Property

8. Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage.

9. Has deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire setting).

Deceitfulness or Theft

10. Has broken into someone else's house, building, or car.

11. Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons' others).

12. Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g. shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)

Serious Violations of Rules

13. Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years.

14. Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period

15. Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years

B. The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning

C. If the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for antisocial personality disorder.

[Skipping a bit of the quote which specifies codes for the various ages CD can present. It is worth noting that these are *not* criteria, they are specifications to be noted in the file of the person being diagnosed with conduct disorder to accurately describe their experience. As you'll see, these specifications are flags as to whether a child/teen with conduct disorder should be evaluated for ASPD upon reaching adulthood.]

Specify if:

With limited prosocial emotions: To qualify for this specifier, an individual must have displayed at least two of the following characteristics persistently over at least 12 months and in multiple relationships and settings. These characteristics reflect the individual's typical pattern of interpersonal and emotional functioning over this period and not just occasional occurrences in some situations. Thus, to assess the criteria for the specifier, multiple information sources are necessary. In addition to the individual's self-report, it is necessary to consider reports by others who have known the individual for extended periods of time (e.g., parents, teachers, co-workers, extended family members, peers).

Lack of remorse or guilt: Does not feel bad or guilty when he or she does something wrong (exclude remorse when expressed only when caught and/or facing punishment). The individual shows a general lack of concern about the negative consequences of his or her actions. For example, the individual is not remorseful after hurting someone or does not care about the consequences of breaking rules.

Callous-lack of empathy: Disregards and is unconcerned about the feelings of others. The individual is described as cold and uncaring. The individual appears more concerned about the effects of his or her actions on himself or herself, rather than their effects on others, even when they result in substantial harm to others.

Unconcerned about performance: Does not show concern about poor/problematic performance at school, at work, or in other important activities. The individual does not put forth the effort necessary to perform well, even when expectations are clear, and typically blames others for his or her poor performance.

Shallow or deficient affect: Does not express feelings or show emotions to others, except in ways that seem shallow, insincere, or superficial (e.g. actions contradict the emotion displayed; can turn emotions "on" or "off" quickly) or when emotional expressions are used for gain (e.g., emotions displayed to manipulate or intimidate others).

Specify current severity:

Mild: Few if any conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, and conduct problems cause relatively minor harm to others (e.g., lying, truancy, staying out after dark without permission, other rule breaking)

Moderate: The number of conduct problems and the effect on others are intermediate between those specified in "mild" and those in "severe" (e.g. stealing without confronting a victim, vandalism)

Severe: Many conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, or conduct problems cause considerable harm to others (e.g., forced sex, physical cruelty, use of a weapon, stealing while confronting a victim, breaking and entering).

[End of Quote]

As you can see, the criteria required before age 15 is not as intense as many professionals describe it. Remember that you are only required to have shown 3 out of the total 15 criteria in there. There is even a whole specifier for Conduct Disorder that is mild and only includes things like lying, basic rule-breaking, and/or staying out past curfew.

Acts of physical aggression are not actually required for ASPD at all, it's just that many prosocials see that being one of the possible symptoms and fixate on it, thus pushing everyone with ASPD into the box of physical aggresion. You absolutely can have ASPD and never act on any violent thoughts or urges.

I was also a very sweet and passive child, developing most of my externalized ASPD symptoms (rule breaking, disrespectful behavior/actions, challenging authority, etc) around age 13. However, the internal symptoms were there for me much younger - easily bored with poor handling of boredom, lack of empathetic reactions, difficulty apologizing/showing remorse due to not really feeling it, becoming very angry but not showing it, resulting for me in self destructive behaviors like cheek biting or controlled destructive behaviors like breaking something that wouldn't be missed (pencils and pens mostly for me).

Regardless of what symptoms were shown when, symptoms are still symptoms, and if you had enough for Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder before your 16th birthday, you are well within possibility of having ASPD. Keep in mind that the lying, manipulation, etc that can qualify for Conduct Disorder doesn't have to be grandiose or destructive except where it is explicitly stated in the criteria that it does (such as fire setting only counting for the destruction of property criteria if you meant to damage something with said fire).

It's so easy to count yourself out of ASPD because you don't fit the stereotypes or public perception of ASPD, but I assure you that there are many, many ways something as complex as a personality disorder can show itself.

It is absolutely a great thing, however, that you are covering your bases and making sure to do the research to see if this is what you have. That is the basis of an informed self-dx, should you come to the conclusion that you have ASPD.

Now, as for actually getting diagnosed, your mileage may vary with professionals. Many have bias against pwASPD ingrained into their practice, and won't diagnose you with it even though you have it if you aren't/weren't violent, law-breaking, or if they just think you "seem far too kind to have ASPD" (a real quote a former professional said to me a few months before I was diagnosed by my long-time psychiatrist). This doesn't mean you don't have ASPD. If they can't give you other explanations that make sense, and if their reasons for denying you that diagnosis are based in stigma or anything other than actual criteria, then you are well within your rights to continue being self-dx.

A professional should be able to explain, using criteria, why you don't have a disorder you think you may have. If they're doing their job, they should be willing to explain to you what their reasons are and point you in the direction they think may be causing the symptoms. And no, "just acting like a teenager" isn't good enough if enough symptoms have persisted into adulthood for you to meet the criteria for ASPD.

I hope this helps, apologies for it being so long.

[roguetelepaths]

Stop self identifying as having ODD stop it stop it. The reason that diagnosis exists is to oppress children, overwhelmingly poor children and children of color. "Argues with adults" is one of the criteria. It's literally meant to pathologize people, especially young people, standing up for themselves. It. Can. Not. Be. Reclaimed. I don't fucking care what you think you're DOING BY “““RECLAIMING””” IT. IT ISN'T REAL. IT'S WHAT THEY SLAP YOU WITH IF THEY THINK YOU'RE TOO POOR OR TOO BROWN TO BE AUTISTIC HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT

[unordinaries]

presented without comment

(chapters 280 + 344)

[redacted-coiner]

MADD, Bipolar, Ehlers Danlos Symdrome(link)

Erotomania(link), Alexithymia, Endometriosis(link)

Oppositional Defiant Disorder(link), Sensory Processing Disorder(link), Conduct Disorder(link)

DNI is listed within my pinned post. Please go read it before interacting with any part of my content. Ask to tag!

[autball]

You, all right?! I learned it by watching you!

ETA:

“Are you saying that we should just accept this kind of behavior from a child??” No, I am not.

“Are you saying we can never use any kind of consequence even for safety reasons??” Also no. I myself have to use the one about the ball (and other objects) somewhat frequently. (The other three are kinda bullish!t, though.)

What I AM saying is that if your kid comes at you with something like this, they didn’t get it from nowhere.

They’re not a budding psychopath, this is not a “lack of empathy,” it’s just a simple bit of logic: Adults threaten me with something upsetting in order to get me to do what they want, so I guess that’s what people do to get what they want.

We as adults come up with a whole bunch of reasons why “it’s different when I do it!” We’re the adults, we know better, it’s a health/safety issue, it’s our job, blah blah blah. But when you have a kid who doesn’t see why things like age or status should matter when it comes to who is allowed to do what to whom (which is not uncommon with neurodivergent kids), none of that really matters. What matters is that, from their perspective, you are threatening something painful in order to control them, and they feel it’s only fair to give that right back.

So what are you supposed to do if this happens? First off, don’t panic. Don’t make moral judgments about their character, don’t flash forward to them in prison in ten years, none of that stuff. Remind yourself that they’re just mirroring what they see, and that they can still be guided in a different direction. (Collaborative parenting approaches that don’t rely on consequences are great for this.)

Also remember that, just like most people, they’re not actually able to think clearly when they’re this upset. People who feel out of control start looking for ways to feel in control again (which is why so many adults resort to threatening consequences to get compliance, BTW), and that’s what this is. You can help the situation by learning to de-escalate instead of coming right back at them with even bigger controlling energy.

Some kids will be WAAYYY more influenced by what’s being modeled for them than they ever will be by what they’re told. If you’ve got one of those, make sure you spend some time looking in the mirror and at other things/people they’re exposed to before launching into a lecture on what is and isn’t “acceptable behavior.”

[evilsystemm]

ODD culture is the idea of purgatory being worse than hell

[mecharose]

genuinely "oppositional defiance" as a disorder is like female hysteria to me. its literally just trauma symptoms pathologized as a disorder -___-

[disabled-sysboxes]

[TEXT ID: this system will not follow demands due to ODD]

[IMG ID: a dark red rectangular box with a lighter red outline with an icon of someone's head with their brain and an unhappy face overlaying them to the left, with the text ‘this system will not follow demands due to ODD’ to the right.]

–

Like & reblog if you use!

(Reblogs can be private)

[prazardous]

i think i'm fucked because every time i see self help advice that might actually be helpful, instead of going "ooh cool i'll try that" my brain says "fascinating war tactic. it'll never work though, for you see i have the upper hand" and then we watch youtube for 8 hours

[e-xolite]

I have ODD and something about it has always been so funny to me. I’ve been diagnosed since I was like four.

Like “your child is uncooperative so we are diagnosing her with offical little cunt syndrome”

Born to anarchism, forced to ODD.