#not this theory babble

[irafuwas]

some thoughts on how lilia views love

I’ve been watching through the Stitch event and there’s a bit of dialogue Lilia says that unfortunately made me Think, so I wanted to gather my babblings here.

This post contains spoilers for: Book 7, Tsumsted Wonderland 2, Lost in the Book with Stitch, Spectral Soiree/Endless Halloween, and Tamashina Mina

After spending the day fighting off Gantu’s robots, scavenging for food, and exploring the island, the boys rest for a bit in an old cottage they found. Lilia wants to take the opportunity to spruce up the cottage and make it more resort-like while they’re enjoying this “vacation”, and Riddle and Jack are both surprised and a bit peeved to hear him say this.

Riddle: Don’t you want to find a way off this island as soon as possible, Lilia Senpai? Malleus Senpai, Silver, and Sebek… Everyone at Diasomnia must be worried sick about you right now. I should think you’d want to assuage their concerns a tad bit faster!

Lilia: …Thing is, I trust them.

Riddle: You trust them?

Lilia: Mm-hmm. Knowing them, no doubt they understand I’m safe and sound and having a good time right now. Malleus and the others know I’m not the type of guy who’d get in a pickle over something as trivial as this. And that’s because they know me very, very well – just like family!

(snipped)

Lilia: It’s truly wonderful having people in your life who trust you and wish the best for you - and for whom you do the same in return - no matter how far apart you may be.

When you take this dialogue and look at in isolation of this event, then it’s a wonderful thing to hear Lilia say. He trusts his boys and they trust him - because they’re family, and that’s what families do. It’s always great to hear the characters themselves acknowledge their strong bonds with each other, and I thought it was really cute how Stitch got so happy to hear Lilia talking about his Ohana.

But when you take what he said and consider the broader story of Twisted Wonderland (vignettes and events, included), and you consider other things he’s said and done in the past… This dialogue just hurts.

There’s been small moments here and there that made me think Lilia has kind of an unhealthy(?) or warped(?) view of love. I’m not sure what the best word for it is, but I’ve noticed that he doesn’t like people worrying over him, he doesn’t like emotional farewells/sappiness, and he really doesn’t like letting others see him when he’s weak.  Additionally, he seems to value himself very little – he doesn’t think people would be worried about him if he were in danger, or that people would be happy getting pictures of him, or that his departure in Book 7 would hurt those around him so much. I’ll go ahead and put examples for each point so you all can understand better what I’m trying to say.

He doesn’t like people worrying about him

We can see this partly from the quote this whole post is based on, as well as from Book 7.

Based on his conversation with Riddle, Lilia’s way of thinking appears to be:

If someone trusts me -> that means they wouldn’t worry about me

As well as:

If someone worries about me -> that means they don’t trust me

But we do worry about the people we love and care about, don’t we? We worry about our spouses getting home safely from a business trip, and our kids making friends at school, and our friends acing the interview they’ve been practicing for because we love them, don’t we? And because we want the best for them. But it doesn’t seem like Lilia thinks the same way.

And to add onto this point, it’s very clear the boys do worry about Lilia a lot, contrary to what Lilia claims. Due to Lilia’s departure, Malleus brought a snowstorm to the island in his sadness, Silver considered dropping out of school and leaving with his father, only to end up breaking down and crying in front of their crown prince of all people, and Sebek used his one wish to make Lilia be healthy and have him stay with Silver forever. They were all worried terribly about him in their own ways, but it doesn’t seem like Lilia ever noticed (or maybe he did, and just didn’t want to bring it up for some reason. Who knows.)

At any rate, he also gets mad (well, more like tsundere lol) at Silver when the boy was on the verge of tears after Lilia took a nasty hit for him. (I know this exchange occurred with General Vanrouge, and he was quite the asshole back then, but he’s still retained that dislike for people worrying over him.)

Lilia: Oh, would you quit it with the sniveling. I drank the potion, didn’t I? I just to rest for a little bit, and then I’ll be good as new.

He doesn’t like emotional farewells/sappiness

He exhibits his distaste of sappiness in Book 7 and the Welcome to Tsumsted Wonderland 2 event. In the latter, when everyone is saying goodbye to their tsums, he mentions he doesn’t like the gloomy atmosphere. He wants goodbyes to be happy (and most likely, free of any emotional weight). The same can be said in Book 7, when he wholeheartedly agrees to the going away party the students wanted to put on for him, as well as when Silver mentions his father had wanted them all to send him off with a smile. I’m not sure if Lilia just doesn’t enjoy people getting serious with their emotions towards him, or if he doesn’t like seeing it in general. It gives me Macho Man (tm) vibes, kind of? Like, “don’t let people see you cry and feel sad because then you look weak” kind of thing but idk.

Lilia: Farewells are certainly sorrowful, but I hate leaving things on such a gloomy note. Let’s keep our chins up until the end. Tsum, your ability to surprise others was exceptional, and you made today so much fun. So long!

He really doesn’t like letting others see him when he’s weak

There’s still a lot of loose ends to be resolved in Book 7, one of them being the full extent of Lilia’s motives for wanting to leave so suddenly. It does seem to be he’s telling the truth that his magic ran out early, since he couldn’t muster up enough strength to fight back against Malleus when he was about to Overblot, but we don’t know if the real reason for that is just because he “went a little to wild” in his youth, like he claimed, or if something else caused his magic to deplete so prematurely. But we did hear him reveal a little bit of his motives when he was talking to Floyd at the party.

Floyd was dismayed he never got a chance to fight Lilia, and he wished he could’ve seen Lilia go all out at least once. When he asks Lilia why he’s dropping out, Lilia says under his breathe that he didn’t want “them” to see him so weak.

Lilia (whispering to himself): …It’s because I didn’t want them to see me so feeble.

Regardless of why his magic ran out and why he wants to go the Land of Red Dragons of all places, we know part of the reason for his departure is because he doesn’t want Malleus and the others to see how far he’d fallen from his former military glory. (sidebar: I have a feeling he thought he’d be a burden on Silver and co. with him losing his magic, and he was trying to leave so quickly to escape his shame towards his rapid loss of strength and independence (I imagine since he’s a magical being who comes from a country that runs on magic, him losing his powers must feel very isolating and limiting, like he’s lost a lot of the control he used to have over his own life).)

He doesn’t think people would be worried about him if he were in danger

In Endless Halloween/Spectral Soiree, Lilia was surprised by how much Silver and the others had been worrying about him and Malleus when they disappeared. Interestingly, even though Lilia is the one that Silver was the most relieved to see (it’s hard to tell with the live 2d models, but it looked like he went up to hug? Lilia and Lilia slapped his hand away), Lilia later says “I didn’t think you’d be so worried about us.” (referring to himself and the others involved with the party shenanigans).

(I am aware they changed this line to “I didn’t think you’d be so worried about me” In TWST EN, but I’m just focusing on the JP version).

I just found it weird that even though Silver was very clearly worried about Lilia the most, Lilia kind of redirected Silver’s concern over from “Lilia” to “Lilia and everyone else”. Did it make him uncomfortable to hear Silver was that worried about him? I’m not sure, but it just stood out to me as being a little strange how he responded, and how surprised he was that his own son would get worried about him suddenly disappearing.

He didn’t think people would be happy getting pictures of him

At the end of Lilia’s Tamashina Mina vignette, Yuu stops by Diasomnia to give him some photos he’d taken of Lilia on their trip, and Sebek, Silver, and Malleus are delighted to see them, since it’s not often they get to see photos of Lilia. Lilia is surprised at how happy they are to receive those pictures of himself. But why wouldn’t they be happy? They love him and treasure him dearly, of course they’d be overjoyed to have pictures of him to remember him by. It’s like he thought they wouldn’t care about him that much, which is really bizarre, considering the whole “even if we’re not related by blood we’re still family” thing he told Malleus before.

Lilia: To think, you’d all be so delighted just to see some pictures of me. I never would’ve imagined you’d all react like this.

He didn’t think his departure in Book 7 would hurt those around him so much

This relates back to what I mentioned in the first point, but there’s one scene that demonstrates this perfectly.

After Silver breaks down in front of Malleus, Malleus teleports both of them to Lilia’s going away party. All eyes should have been on Malleus with how strangely he was acting, but the first thing Lilia honed in on was that Silver had been crying. And not only that, but Lilia looked surprised that Silver had been crying. And why wouldn’t he cry? The one person who formed Silver’s entire world and sun and stars was about to leave him and go die all by himself on the other side of the planet. There is no reason Lilia should’ve been surprised at Silver’s tears, yet he was. And I gather that’s because he never thought the boy could ever possibly want to choose to stay by his side, to choose him over all the hopes and dreams he’d burdened on the poor child from the moment he could walk, to choose him over his real friends and his real family members.

I hope when Lilia “wakes up” from his dream, the first he does is ask Silver what he’d been crying about back at the party. And I pray to god they will actually talk things out and Lilia will finally apologize for how much of a complete idiot he’s been acting.

My headache’s coming back so to wrap this up quickly, my current understanding of Lilia Vanrouge is that he either doesn’t realize just how loved and cherished he is by his family members, or that he does realize it and just pretends not to. If it’s the latter, which is what I personally lean towards, I think he does this as a means to protect himself.

He’s already lost so many of his loved ones, and he very well may be putting up these walls around his heart and pushing away the people who love him just so he doesn’t have to get hurt again. We don’t know how he became an orphan, but his birth family either gave him up or passed away and left him behind. Even when Queen Maleficia took him in, he was always made the scapegoat for the princess’s schemes, and it sounded like he was brought up more as Levan and Mallenoa’s inferior than their equal. And then war struck their nation. And then his one best friend went missing and the other one probably gave up her life trying to protect the very child who'd go on to shatter the ice surrounding his wounded heart.

Perhaps with Malleus and Silver and Sebek now, he thought his best option would be to exit their lives before they had a chance to do the same to him, because he knew they would do the same to him. Everyone does.

As a final note, I still keep going to back to what he said in Cater’s Halloween vignette. I think this one line sums up his views of love better than I ever could:

“But the more precious a bond is, the more pain it can inflict.”

(source)

[shelvesofgold]

ok so i have a hazbin hotel theory (specifically about the vees) my friend brought to my attention that i haven’t seen anyone post about so i’m gonna do it here

ok so we have all seen the v tower, it is one of the only buildings in hazbin that is given significant detail and more specifically it is one of the ONLY CIRCULAR SHAPED BUILDINGS!!!

why is this a relevant detail you ask?? because the circular shape of the v tower looks EXTREMELY SIMILAR to the tower of babel!!!

for those of you unfamiliar w/ the story of the tower of babel, essentially the story goes that humans built a tower to try and reach heaven and as punishment for their hubris god cursed them all to speak in tongues aka babble!

the story of hubris perfectly lines up w/ the current attitude the vees have, especially towards powerful players like charlie and alastor. I think they will pay a similar price for their pride, especially w/ lucifer and heaven taking a more active role in the coming season.

the vees primary influence is thru their influence so if they were cursed w/ an inability to communicate or smth of the likes it would be a MAJOR HIT to their power!!!

everything in hazbin and the hellaverse are drawn vv intentionally! the heaven embassy looks like a church, the serephim are all depicted w/ three pairs of wings, the deadly sins are drawn based on biblical descriptions of them!!! this is why i think the v tower looking like the tower of babel is not merely coincidence!!

let me know what y’all think of this theory, i’d love to know what you guys have to say about this :)))

[lesbow]

❌: *watching Camp Cretaceous and Chaos Theory to keep up with Jurassic World continuity*

✅: *watching Jurassic World to keep up with Camp Cretaceous and Chaos Theory continuity*

[n0picturespls]

OK my friend brought up a very interesting point. Through what we've seen so far, everyone has something that lets Showfall control them remotely.

Sneeg with his hat, Charlie with his glasses

They don't seem to have wires that run through them like the workers. They do have wires, but they see very surface level, staying by the head.

But what about Ranboo? They are the only one we haven't seen so far, and although it is obviously the mask that controls him, how far do the wires go?? My friend suggested that there are wires throughout the whole body because we literally control him remotely. He is the vessel through which chat gets to play the game. He needs such detailed wiring because people all over the world are tuning in to watch and play. Not only that, but he seems to be the one that fights back the most. Sometimes Showfall literally had to use his own body to stop them from doing something.

[enden-k]

so my number 1 fave might be a worm for shit and giggles (dr ratio) and my number 2 fave never existed in the first place (gallagher), i cant believe my number 3 fave is the actual normal one considering we were introduced to him having a private moment with a houseplant (argenti) i cannot

[nocandnc]

I really like the implication that despite her reluctance on the matter,

Aira is the one who can best match Evil Eye in a fight

at least prior to Okarun’s training arc.

While Aira is lacking in raw strength and spiritual energy, she makes up for it with exceptional technique. Close combat fighting is like dancing, and that’s where she excels. She’s already capable of following EE’s 4-beat rhythm from the start.

We can see this demonstrated even before the music room training. During one of his transformations at Momo’s house, Aira's shown to be the most effective in holding EE back ‘till the hot water is ready.

I think that’s partly why she’s so cavalier about letting EE out in later arcs. I don’t think it’s just her being selfish or rash - some part of her must be thinking ‘I can take him!'

But, I also think there’s a level of trust to it as well.

Trust in herself to keep him in check, trust in Jiji’s ability to restrain him, and trust in the Evil Eye himself to be more than a just vengeful embodiment of human rage and suffering. She's gotten comfortable with him by this point in the story after all - enough to scold and kick him just as she would Jiji and the others.

Speaking of matching, there's also thematic connections to consider.

Aira’s abilities come from Acrobatic Silky, a poor ballet dancer turned urban legend after meeting a tragic fate. AcroSilky's fondest memories are of when she would dance and play with her child, whom she yearned to see even after death.

When the Evil Eye was a living child, his greatest wish was to dance and play with someone as well. That got twisted up after centuries of watching other children suffer like he did - but just as AcroSilky sought out Aira in want of her child, Evil Eye's core desire is still there.

So I think it would be very nice if these two shared a one-on-one dance at some point... even if it's under the guise of play-fighting ^^;;

[bonefall]

Something like this?

Yeah! Very close to that!

From the top view, the toes would still be pretty indistinguishable because the fur would still obscure where one ends and another begins, but that's about right.

At this point in their evolution, you'd be able to tell right away from the tool claw that they're not Felis Catus Domesticus anymore. I had a specbio project I worked on for a while where I called them something like Felis Narrans I think.

[swan2swan]

This is why she had to keep changing the passcode.

[nijae-roni]

Hear me out guys...

...okay time to go on why this makes sense to me. Here's what I can think of while doing the dishes. (not spoiler free!!!) Comparison between Zuko and Manolo

Zuko and Manolo break the toxic cycle of their family (Zuko not being an assh*le and Manolo not killing a bull)

Zuko and Manolo lost their mom and have a strict dad who raised them in an environment they eventually wanted to leave from (Zuko's mom is alive yes but he and everyone else believed she was gone for years)

Their moms helped them shape into the man they are today

Both willing to sacrifice their life for the one/people they care for (Zuko taking the lightning shot and Manolo trapping himself with Chakal with the giant bell) Now for Katara and Maria

Strong sense of justice even at a young age

Raised by a single dad who they had a somewhat strained relationship at the beginning of the story

Would not hesitate to throw a punch (literally and figuratively) when needed

Voice of inspiration (Katara pushing the team to get better and Maria inspiring the townsfolk to fight with her)

Both will not hesitate to do anything to help their people/people in need

And remember Zuko's quote? "You rise with the moon, I rise with the sun"

Well...Maria and Manolo are canonically reincarnations of their past lives, Maya and Zatz (from Maya and the Three, made by the same creator :DD)

Spoilers for Maya and the Three beyond!!!

And coincidentally enough, when Maya and Zatz die, they become the world's sun and moon...possibly the same sun and moon in The Book of Life timeline. Zatz and Katara rise with the moon, Maya and Zuko rise with the sun.

Another similar thing both pairs had is that they were both, in a way, royalty or rather from a very important family.

Zatz, like Zuko, sacrificed himself to help/aid in the battle/fight, leaving both Maya and Katara to finish off the enemy one way or another.

That's all I can think of for the meantime but yeah your honor that's all I got.

[alevolpe]

I shared this on twt, I figured ppl on here would like to see it just as much. it’s just an old character design sheet for me to use as ref for future redesigns with a healthy sprinkle of gushing about sm character designs in the mix ;)

[dodiaska]

my take on the r+l=j thingy. hope i made jon look stark enough but with those 'sad emo prince rhaegar' look that ive seen being talked about lol

also lyanna's head piece was by all means inspired by @imjustapoorwayfaringgeek 's fanart of her!!! amazing work btw!!!!!

[y-rhywbeth2]

Staring suspiciously at Feral Durge and Chosen Durge right now. The difference here is that when Durge accepts Bhaal of their own free will their mind is "wedded" to Bhaal's urge to slay becoming "One body, one mind."

Bhaal can just decide crush the part of the Dark Urge that is separate from himself, assuming direct control of their body and burying them beneath the urge to slay, as seen in the "feral" endings. But he doesn't. That's the failure condition. It's also got some interesting implications that since Durge hasn't fully merged with Bhaal that maybe there's something in there that could be rescued, but that's just my craving for a fix-it fic where somebody saves the poor bastard.

What's so important about Durge's consciousness remaining intact? What does Bhaal need it for and why doesn't he want to lose it? Why can't he just take it from them? Why do they have it? We're told Durge was carved from the god's own dead flesh in a place beyond mortality, but did he place something else in them for "safekeeping" while he was dead?

This is probably just a DM putting three endings into a character arc without much thought put into it (good end, bad end, very bad end) but I chose to overthink it. What is happening here.

[lesbow]

Okay I’ve officially finished both Camp Cretaceous and caught up with Chaos Theory.

While I like both shows, for right now I might prefer CC. Just because it had a sortve comforting / heartwarming atmosphere to it (despite all the death and violence lmao.) Camp Fam fought for their lives every day but them living in a treehouse, having (somewhat) free roam of an entire island, and able to sit down and chill with marshmallow bonfires, or relax at the watering hole, etc. was some of my favorite moments.

I’m really enjoying Chaos Theory like don’t get me wrong. Them dealing with dinosaurs on the mainland and still being able to come together to solve a murder mystery (while still being the close knit family they are) has me hooked. But because of the darker vibe + the faster pace, there probably won’t be too many moments in the upcoming season(s) where the Camp Fam can just spend time and chill. Not like in CC.

[n0picturespls]

THE ENTIRE ENDING BIT???

Oh my god Troy is being deceived? How will that snake girl know if he tells blink?? I mean this makes the stuff troy was saying at the first episode make so much more sense, but stil?? Is she working with the vixins, why does she want blink, WHY IS TROYS FULL NAME FUCKING TRAMILTON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT

[diablademon]

Hohoho!~

What secret past, croco-boy?~

[weepinglavenders]

Rambley is evil but it's not for no reason and I feel like the end credit song gives insight to that.

"lots of happy feedback insures I get to exist"

Which kinda tells that maybe the AI guide gets terminated if they fail in their job, which would definitely add stress to Rambley. Rambley has been alone for so long that he's become sentient with more or less human emotions.

"did I earn your trust?"

Is a little odd to say to someone your leading around an abandoned amusement park. But he also says;

"Til all my old friends are united again and I won't feel so behind"

He's lonely and probably resentful because while his friends are real he can't join them and he's alone. Eight years of resentment and thoughts would definitely make someone evil.

I also think, because he's programmed to know the other mascots and he has a mini game with them that, now that he's more sentient he believes that at one point he was real and physical and now he's not and he's stuck.

He scared of being behind and is playing as the sweet 'ray of sunshine' to the player because he doesn't want to be alone again and he'll do anything to make sure he's not anymore.