#natalist

[allwomenjointhe4bmovement]

My latest yt video is out. Pls make sure to leave a like👍

[idroolinmysleep]

TL;DR: these are kid-smacking low-key eugenicists who give their children names like “Industry Americus” and think that keeping a home warm is a pointless extravagance.

The Guardian profiles pronatalists Malcolm and Simone Collins, and boy, these people are so full of themselves. Their commitment to effective altruism (you know, the same movement championed by Sam Bankman-Fried, who’s now in prison) somehow leads them to … not heat their home in winter?

as effective altruists, they give everything they can spare to charity (their [personal] charities). “Any pointless indulgence, like heating the house in the winter, we try to avoid if we can find other solutions,” says Malcolm.

And, for a couple who wants to have lots of babies, they don’t seem to like children very much.

The Collinses believe in childcare, but not maternity leave: Simone has never taken any. She will have the day of her C-section off “because of the drugs,” but will take work calls from hospital the day after. She tells me it’s because she’s “bored out of my mind” when she’s stuck with a newborn. … Malcolm tells me how much he doesn’t like babies. “Objectively, they are trying and they are aggravating. They are gross. This little bomb that goes off crying in this big explosion of poo and mucus every 30, 40 minutes. And it doesn’t have a personality, really.”

As for what that childcare looks like? They learned it from watching wild animals. For real.

Malcolm tells me that he and Simone have developed a parenting style based on something she observed when she saw tigers in the wild: they react to bad behaviour from their cubs with a paw, a quick negative response in the moment, which they find very effective with their own kids.

Lovely couple, these two.

[moonandtrees]

[void-thegod]

Even if they have kids and degrees - it doesn't make them more mature or intelligent.

Responsibilities like that don't automatically make you an adult.

Do you know how many adults I've met who are more like children than they "should" be?

Plenty of mature 23 year olds without degrees or children. Plenty of them who do or don't go to the club.

I really wish people would stop treating baby making as some end game for maturity.

It's ridiculous, gross, and wrong on many levels.

OP disabled reblogs but i think this needs to be out there

[freckled-radfem]

Reasons not to get pregnant/have a child/raise children. From girlwiththelist1 on tiktok

[canwediscuss]

How do anti natalists/ inherently anti natalist political groups feel about the longevity of your movements? Can you convert at a rate to withstand opposing groups that just. Clone?

For example, global population conscientious anti Christians, how do you feel about mormons and Amish making more of themselves?

Pro abortion leftists, how do you feel about pro life far right groups having high birthrates?

And so on. I'm curious.

[monochromeonsienna]

I am increasingly convinced that the decision to encourage Americans to use their homes as their primary store of wealth was not only a catastrophic mistake but actually the ur-mistake from which most of our contemporary dysfunction flows. It basically makes intergenerational warfare required, and proper urbanist and pro-natalist policies politically impossible.

[moonstonetombstone]

[swagging-back-to]

every single time you stress out about your taxes, or your rent, or your debt, or your mortgage, or your car payment, or your medical bills, or climate change, or your stress over having to work and just do basic things like eating----- remember that if you have children, *you are directly responsible** for them feeling all of that suffering and stress and pain when they grow up.

[zvaigzdelasas]

"Anti-natalist" refers to an actually existing tendency of thought but there is no such thing as a "Pro-natalist" that actually exists. Thought doesn't need to come in completely symmetric camps.

[morbidmordin]

Ah the forums in a seething meltdown where everyone who doesn't hate Jade's design is a misogynist and page after page of screeching about how pregnancy is evil. All this while they reduce Jade to an incubator, ignoring everything else about her story.

I see little has changed in my absence.

[idroolinmysleep]

Well, now. The pronatalist couple featured in a recent Guardian profile is getting flak for their kid-smacking ways, and this is how they chose to respond:

"We are kind of shocked by the racism threaded throughout this recent controversy. It is pretty well-documented that African Americans and other minority groups practice corporal punishment much more than other groups," Simone Collins said via email, linking to a CNN article published in 2011. Malcolm Collins said it was "uniquely offensive" to him considering "the majority of Americans practice some form of corporal punishment, as you can see from the statistics with specifically that being the minority groups of Americans. So yeah, I think it's an arguably racist position."

Uh, guys, maybe this doesn't have anything to do with race at all? Immediately pulling the race card isn't going to win anyone over to your side. 🤦‍♀️

[balkanradfem]

I feel that any bad-faith argument about abortion needs to be turned into argument about quality and value of all life on earth. Because we are an intelligent species, and are capable of looking ahead and seeing the consequences of out actions.

For instance, we are living in a world with current ongoing wars, where certain people are given the orders to end thousands of lives, without any consequences or retributions. And yet this is not where pro-life is focusing their intent; apparently once babies grow up it's perfectly fine to gruesomely end those same lives in a genocide, or be starved to death during wars, that kind of thing just 'can't be helped'. But women can be pressured and guilted into birthing more babies, so apparently that's the way to go, sure way to increase the amount of suffering in the world.

But, you'll say, not all born babies will be killed off in wars (weird thing to say honestly), what about children who will live their lives safely and happily on this planet?

Well, tell me how?

Any child being born is going to experience the devastating effect of the climate change, they'll watch whole ecosystems collapse, animals going into extinction, and thousands of humans losing their homes and survival resources. They're being born into a misogynistic world, and if the child is female, she'll experience oppression that she won't even be able to prove is real to the male part of the population.

This child will grow up in the world where empathy is scarce, they'll be bombarded with news about human suffering almost every day, they're likely to come down with mental illness or at least feel that the future is bleak and brings more pain. They're also likely to fall victim to pedophiles, predators, and brainwashed boys who learned to sexually assault other kids due to the exposure of p*rn. Is pro-life trying to protect them from any of it? No. They're fighting to stop teaching them about puberty and what sex is, so once these traumatic things happen to them, they're unable to recognize them or speak about it.

But let's look into even more immediate effects of having a child born against their mother's consent. Once a baby is born, they're alive, but we all know that if they're not tended to, they'll die, experiencing nothing but pain. We always assume women will do this labour unprompted, but how can we assume this?

The forced mother, who is already traumatized from having to go trough forced birth, is likely both unwilling and without proper resources to care for a baby. The baby will feel this, they will know they're unloved. They'll know they're unwanted before they even grow up. As a solution to this, you suggest we blame and shame all mothers for not being good enough, for struggling with post-birth trauma or post-partum depression, for being unwilling to be a parent? You can't control what an unwilling mother does with her baby. You forced her to give birth but you can't do anything beyond that point.

Why did you do it? Why did you make sure a baby exists in a world where there is nobody who wants them, is willing to take care of them or give them a good life? What is it worth to you if there's another unwanted, unloved, suffering child out there? Does it make your life better if there's more human suffering? Do you fight for support of new mothers, for better healthcare, for better resources to take care of abandoned babies, for better institutions to take care of unwanted children? No. You feel entitled to women's unlimited labour and endless caretaking of children they don't want. You don't want to acknowledge it's undertaking of a huge scale, that requires endless resources, finances, complete exhaustion, loss of health, sleep, protection, sometimes education and career. It's nothing to you. Loss of quality of life, for everyone involved, means nothing to you.

As long as there is more human suffering. As long as mother didn't get any say over whether she'll become a mother or not, and how many times, and when. As long as her life was put at risk without her consent. As long as she was punished for something you consider she should be punished for.

And now I'm going to circle back to where I started, the war. Because mothers have to watch their children both go to war, risk their lives in war, and be killed in wars. After putting that endless amount of energy and resources to grow and raise a single child, they'll have to watch them go to slaughter. And what happens if a child dies, as a solider in a war? Mother gets payment for it. That's right. For having that child murdered by someone else, the mother will get paid. Murder of that child is not only okay, legal, approved by government and somehow necessary, but is also rewardable to the mother, who, had she refused to birth that same child, causing zero suffering to ensue, would have been punished. Nobody except the mother can get punished.

If the child was killed in a war, and not a soldier, nothing. Apparently loss of life with extreme amount of human suffering, is worth absolutely nothing. But refusing to put that life out there, is a punishable crime. Because it only matters if it's unborn or a newborn. Once that same baby grows up, it's slaughter time. Humans apparently lose value after they grow up, they're only worth as 'endless human potential' in unwilling hands, but after they've reached the age of 'not a baby anymore', worthless.

We have observed the world for long enough to see the consequences of the actions we make. Women are the only ones who can and should decide whether they are willing and able to bring another life into the world, that is worth living, that will provide a life which is livable, enjoyable, worth being alive for. Life is extremely precious and bringing it into the world where it will be subjected to neglect, torture, and possibly a painful death, is unacceptable.

Caring for mother's rights is the first thing that will improve any child's quality of life. Caring about the environment is the second. Ending wars and debilitating male's ability to even start a war, is a fight for life. Not fighting for them to take control of female bodies, which they'll use to make themselves endless supply of soldiers, endless war resources. Taking control from women always means putting it in hands of m*n, who don't find any problem with human suffering, who celebrate wars, find themselves at home doing massive murdering, torturing and raping of women and children.

Women in charge of life means making life compatible with joy, love, care and warmth. We are the only ones who give children have safety, community, care and protection only a willing mother can give. You're wrangling it away from us further away from control the women are. We are fighting for a world where every mother is willing, and every child wanted. Why aren't you?

[female-malice]

THIS IS THE FUTURE! First we remove the taboo against female embryo selection. Then we remove the taboo against aborting male fetuses.

[inkstained-wretch]

the west needs a 4b movement that ISNT transphobic

no sex

no dating

no children

no marriage

with ANYONE who voted for or supports trump's ideologies and fascist policies bc there are a LOT of stupid white women who voted for that shit

ostracize those mfing weirdos!

[somethingblu3]

God judging me after finishing yet another Astarion breeding fic.