#<- an anti natalist“

[koheletgirl]

the honest truth about grantaire's political opinions is that they dont matter

[traumacatholic]

Seeing people make arguments about "what if you have a baby and it has autism or ocd or anxiety? Isn't it better to just not have a child?" is one of those....whew moments when you are reading it as someone with autism, anxiety, and OCD.

Like guys, I promise that disabled people have value. No matter how much they are willing or able to contribute to society. No matter how much they might suffer, their lives are valuable. And if your worldview is not accepting of disabled people then it is inherently eugenicist and genocidal. I did not stutter when I typed that. Views that devalue the life of disabled people as less then, are eugenicist and genocidal. They are used to justify our oppression and dehumanisation and our exclusion from society. Even if you think you are progressive, even if you think you are liberationary, even if you think you are anti-conservative or whatever else.

And you can "well not you, those other disabled people" all you want. Because I will always stand with disabled people that are more disabled and more vulnerable than me. My life is not more valuable than theirs. You do not get to draw the distinction between 'good' and 'bad' disabled people. Your eugenicist and genocidal worldview will come for your disabled friends, your disabled family members, your disabled neighbours, your disabled partner - even if you would personally draw a line at them. Your worldview does not, it will and does open the door to violence on a systemic and personal level. And you are only ever one day away from catching an illness that makes you disabled in the short or long term, or getting into an accident that leaves you disabled in the short or long term.

[misery-chickk]

Reasons not to get pregnant/have a child/raise children. From girlwiththelist1 on tiktok

[blackpilljesus]

Sometimes as I go on about life I get very jealous of males.

Like, they got no hurdles in life, basically they get a wife that serves their every need.

They don't have to take many precautions in life, they get taken seriously.

What's worse is women support these moids more than the moids themselves.

How do I cope with these stuff?

Withdraw. It sucks but not offering unpaid or uncompensated labour goes a long way. As you're single, you're not providing any maIes free labour like cooking & cleaning. The biggest impact of withdrawing is not having kids. Don't add another person to this world, in the short term it seems like nothing but long term it's a powerful move. Less people being born = less women & girls being taken advantage of or less maIes exploiting women & girls. I say this often but the way I cope with all this bs is knowing I'm not leaving any kids behind. I wont waste time investing in kids that'll get screwed over by the system, I wont have kids weaponised against me. Look at how maIe leaders are scrambling at the declining birth rates, this shit only continues so long as they've got toys to destroy. The only way to not lose is to not play. In the meantime, put your energy into yourself or likeminded women. As much as this world sucks try & find somethings you enjoy to pass time.

We can't control the entire world we can only control what we do to an extent.

[swagging-back-to]

every single time you stress out about your taxes, or your rent, or your debt, or your mortgage, or your car payment, or your medical bills, or climate change, or your stress over having to work and just do basic things like eating----- remember that if you have children, *you are directly responsible** for them feeling all of that suffering and stress and pain when they grow up.

[canwediscuss]

How do anti natalists/ inherently anti natalist political groups feel about the longevity of your movements? Can you convert at a rate to withstand opposing groups that just. Clone?

For example, global population conscientious anti Christians, how do you feel about mormons and Amish making more of themselves?

Pro abortion leftists, how do you feel about pro life far right groups having high birthrates?

And so on. I'm curious.

[pisceanpharies]

It really overcooks my steak into rubber that natalists talk about how fucked up this world is, and yet decide it's perfectly reasonable to bring more kids here to suffer.

[reverescents]

Most people, almost everyone, don't understand how complex parenting is and everything you have to do and NOT do (yes, even that's hard). Most parents do tons and tons of things that are harmful and wrong. And these include really subtle, small, seemingly harmless things, too. If you really want to be better parents than, like 95% of the parents in this world, then there is such an incredibly tremendous amount of effort you have to put in. And people don't understand just how enormous that effort is and just what and how much you have to do/learn/know/be. And it's impossible. There is so much you have to learn and know and do and be able to do before you become parents and while you are parenting. And all of that, is literally impossible in this world, system, and society. Because you need so much money, time, resources, support, and much, much more for all that you have to do. And the world you're living in doesn't allow it or make it possible. And even if we were somehow living in a "perfect world", being a "good parent" would never be possible.

Because first of all, you brought a child into existence despite not being able to take their consent. That's wrong (unethical and immoral) in the first place, since you can't take consent (which, even if it was possible, I don't understand how it would work and don't think that concept makes sense) and due to what bringing a child into existence implies for that child, a human being, which is an entire different and enormous discussion by itself, so there is literally no such thing as a "good parent". It's just like how there's no such thing as a "good criminal". A criminal is a criminal. A parent is a parent. And just like how a criminal can commit their crimes "well" (being a good strategic thinker/planner...being clever and courageous, being skilled, etc. I don't know) or not well, a parent can also do that, and the thing is, most parents don't do their "job" NEARLY "well" enough. And if you want to do it better than 95% of the parents in this world, then there is an unbelievable and innumerable amount of things you have to do, which the kind of world we live in doesn't make possible to do.

You are a human being with a job and with very limited time, money, and resources, etc. You are also an adult, which means you have been conditioned and programmed in many ways that are not good, that are probably harmful. And you would need to deal with that, which just by itself, is something that requires an enormous amount of time and effort, and we're back to not having enough time, money, and resources (and much more) for that. Even when you reduce the work you have to do to do your "job" as a parent way, way better than most parents, down to something that is possible to do in this world, society, and system, even then it STILL requires tremendous time, energy, and effort, and much more. It's also not something you can do by yourself — you need other people, and that might not be possible for you. And if people think that what I'm saying is wrong, that being a parent doesn't require an unbelievable amount of effort and doesn't require you to do all the things you need to do (grow, change, heal, learn, read/watch/do, think, understand, learn unlearn learn unlearn, do, develop, do, gain, etc etc etc), then those people are ignorant, delusional, immature, unwilling, and/or very, very selfish. You don't want to think or you just can't think at all.

I think if a couple attempted to do all of those things that are essential to do to be the 'best' parents possible, while living in this world, they would lose their minds and cause themselves and each other a lot of damage. Because of our parents, and all the parents before and ever, being..quite terrible and so far from being "good parents", it's even more difficult, and I'm saying all that I am taking into account this fact, of course. Why is it even more difficult? Well, because obviously, everyone is raised by their parents/caregivers (when I say 'everyone' I don't also mean people who grow up without anyone caring for them, etc), and our parents/caregivers, environment, the country, city, state, area we live in, life outside of home (which involves other people, everyone else who are not raised by what I call close-to-good parents because "good" parenting is not real or realistic), family, experiences, what we see, learn, hear, are taught directly and indirectly, everything and much more ALL obviously very significantly impact and influence us and shape us as the human beings we become (I mean, you don't ever "become" a human being, you are born as one, but you get what I mean). Oh, and by saying that, I don't mean we are born as blank slates, that's not true at all. However, external factors significantly shape and impact us. Your psychological type is also an incredibly and significantly important factor I'm sure, but no one knows about this or talks about this (this is the first time I include this when talking about something like this..). All this obviously influences and impacts the kind of parents you are going to be, and many, many of the ways you have been influenced, conditioned, impacted, and programmed are harmful and you would need to deal with that first which is a lot of work, and work on yourself, get help from others, grow, etc..

There is so much to do and if you are going to bring a human being into existence, into this planet, they deserve the absolute best (whatever that is), and you owe it to them to give them that (even if you adopt), and since literally no one can do that (they can only give THIER best, which unfortunately is never enough), especially also because of what this world is like and the fact that more things are out of your control than what is, you shouldn't have kids. There are many, many more reasons why you shouldn't than this, of course. I know it sounds like a strong statement, and like it leaves no room for any 'buts', but really, you shouldn't. There are no 'buts'.

When you truly understand what it means to be a parent but also what it means to bring a human being into existence, into this specific world, system, and society, when you understand both of these things truly, when you have thought about it and read others' perspectives, arguements, and views, too; you realize it is 1000% better and the best to NOT have any children, to not become a parent. You realize it's the right thing to do. I haven't even talked about exactly and specifically all the things you must do in order to become close-to-good parents, or what the implications of bringing somebody into existence are, the issues in this world (I don't even know enough about this yet, yet what I know is enough), or just antinatalism. There is still so much I don't know about all that myself. I'm not some "expert". There is a colossal amount of things to talk about here. And I think everything I'm saying is way too complicated to be explained simply or be understood easily, so you either get what I mean, or you don't.

[insufferablefirehazard]

[ccamodup]

Are you a nazi

no, i don’t personally align with nazism/neo-nazism

[thegirlisddangerous]

him and the twins i would have given him

[morbidmordin]

Ah the forums in a seething meltdown where everyone who doesn't hate Jade's design is a misogynist and page after page of screeching about how pregnancy is evil. All this while they reduce Jade to an incubator, ignoring everything else about her story.

I see little has changed in my absence.

[lesbianp1lled]

[notreallysureyett]

I think the reason why abortion absolutism is becoming more popular (apart from the commonality of abortion diluting people's innate negative reaction towards it and recent legislative attempts to restrict it) is that more and more people realize that the libertarian framework of "this is a moral negative but it should be legal" falls flat when it comes to a life or death position such as abortion, so rather than realize abortion is an uncompromising evil they just decided to reframe abortion as a moral positive.

[swagging-back-to]

[balkanradfem]

I feel that any bad-faith argument about abortion needs to be turned into argument about quality and value of all life on earth. Because we are an intelligent species, and are capable of looking ahead and seeing the consequences of out actions.

For instance, we are living in a world with current ongoing wars, where certain people are given the orders to end thousands of lives, without any consequences or retributions. And yet this is not where pro-life is focusing their intent; apparently once babies grow up it's perfectly fine to gruesomely end those same lives in a genocide, or be starved to death during wars, that kind of thing just 'can't be helped'. But women can be pressured and guilted into birthing more babies, so apparently that's the way to go, sure way to increase the amount of suffering in the world.

But, you'll say, not all born babies will be killed off in wars (weird thing to say honestly), what about children who will live their lives safely and happily on this planet?

Well, tell me how?

Any child being born is going to experience the devastating effect of the climate change, they'll watch whole ecosystems collapse, animals going into extinction, and thousands of humans losing their homes and survival resources. They're being born into a misogynistic world, and if the child is female, she'll experience oppression that she won't even be able to prove is real to the male part of the population.

This child will grow up in the world where empathy is scarce, they'll be bombarded with news about human suffering almost every day, they're likely to come down with mental illness or at least feel that the future is bleak and brings more pain. They're also likely to fall victim to pedophiles, predators, and brainwashed boys who learned to sexually assault other kids due to the exposure of p*rn. Is pro-life trying to protect them from any of it? No. They're fighting to stop teaching them about puberty and what sex is, so once these traumatic things happen to them, they're unable to recognize them or speak about it.

But let's look into even more immediate effects of having a child born against their mother's consent. Once a baby is born, they're alive, but we all know that if they're not tended to, they'll die, experiencing nothing but pain. We always assume women will do this labour unprompted, but how can we assume this?

The forced mother, who is already traumatized from having to go trough forced birth, is likely both unwilling and without proper resources to care for a baby. The baby will feel this, they will know they're unloved. They'll know they're unwanted before they even grow up. As a solution to this, you suggest we blame and shame all mothers for not being good enough, for struggling with post-birth trauma or post-partum depression, for being unwilling to be a parent? You can't control what an unwilling mother does with her baby. You forced her to give birth but you can't do anything beyond that point.

Why did you do it? Why did you make sure a baby exists in a world where there is nobody who wants them, is willing to take care of them or give them a good life? What is it worth to you if there's another unwanted, unloved, suffering child out there? Does it make your life better if there's more human suffering? Do you fight for support of new mothers, for better healthcare, for better resources to take care of abandoned babies, for better institutions to take care of unwanted children? No. You feel entitled to women's unlimited labour and endless caretaking of children they don't want. You don't want to acknowledge it's undertaking of a huge scale, that requires endless resources, finances, complete exhaustion, loss of health, sleep, protection, sometimes education and career. It's nothing to you. Loss of quality of life, for everyone involved, means nothing to you.

As long as there is more human suffering. As long as mother didn't get any say over whether she'll become a mother or not, and how many times, and when. As long as her life was put at risk without her consent. As long as she was punished for something you consider she should be punished for.

And now I'm going to circle back to where I started, the war. Because mothers have to watch their children both go to war, risk their lives in war, and be killed in wars. After putting that endless amount of energy and resources to grow and raise a single child, they'll have to watch them go to slaughter. And what happens if a child dies, as a solider in a war? Mother gets payment for it. That's right. For having that child murdered by someone else, the mother will get paid. Murder of that child is not only okay, legal, approved by government and somehow necessary, but is also rewardable to the mother, who, had she refused to birth that same child, causing zero suffering to ensue, would have been punished. Nobody except the mother can get punished.

If the child was killed in a war, and not a soldier, nothing. Apparently loss of life with extreme amount of human suffering, is worth absolutely nothing. But refusing to put that life out there, is a punishable crime. Because it only matters if it's unborn or a newborn. Once that same baby grows up, it's slaughter time. Humans apparently lose value after they grow up, they're only worth as 'endless human potential' in unwilling hands, but after they've reached the age of 'not a baby anymore', worthless.

We have observed the world for long enough to see the consequences of the actions we make. Women are the only ones who can and should decide whether they are willing and able to bring another life into the world, that is worth living, that will provide a life which is livable, enjoyable, worth being alive for. Life is extremely precious and bringing it into the world where it will be subjected to neglect, torture, and possibly a painful death, is unacceptable.

Caring for mother's rights is the first thing that will improve any child's quality of life. Caring about the environment is the second. Ending wars and debilitating male's ability to even start a war, is a fight for life. Not fighting for them to take control of female bodies, which they'll use to make themselves endless supply of soldiers, endless war resources. Taking control from women always means putting it in hands of m*n, who don't find any problem with human suffering, who celebrate wars, find themselves at home doing massive murdering, torturing and raping of women and children.

Women in charge of life means making life compatible with joy, love, care and warmth. We are the only ones who give children have safety, community, care and protection only a willing mother can give. You're wrangling it away from us further away from control the women are. We are fighting for a world where every mother is willing, and every child wanted. Why aren't you?