#multigender-ish
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Queer-ish/Variant-ish part 5
Non binary-ish, and Maverique-ish
Non binary-ish - A term for for when someone's close to but not quite non binary. This can be for a variety of reasons, including being heavily aligned with a binary gender, having fluid gender and/or multiple gender and not viewing all of them as non binary, not identifying with typical understandings of what non binary means, having a "non traditional" relationship with non binaryness do to cultural reasons, questioning one's gender, any other experiences of near but not exact non binaryness and/or non binaryness with additional complexities to it.
Maverique-ish - A term for for when someone's close to but not quite maverique. This can be for a variety of reasons, including being demimaverique, having fluid gender and/or multiple gender that one views as inseparable from each other and maverique is a prominent one, questioning one's gender, any other experiences of near but not exact maverique and/or maverique with additional complexities to it.
Agender-ish, and Neutrois-ish, and Androgyne-ish
All have similar definitions to maverique-ish
Multigender-ish, and Bigender-ish, and Genderfluid-ish
Multigender-ish - A term for for when someone's close to but not quite multigender. This can be for a variety of reasons, including being almost entirely one gender but partly being others, having multiple partial genders, having fluid or flux gender that is experience as both multiple and one gender, questioning one's gender, any other experiences of near but not exactly that of being multigender and/or multigender with additional complexities to it.
Bigender-ish - A term for for when someone's close to but not quite bigender. This can be for a variety of reasons, including being almost entirely one gender but partly being another one, having multiple partial genders to add up to being close to but not quite two, having fluid or flux gender that is experience as both two and one gender, questioning one's gender, any other experiences of near but not exactly that of being bigender and/or bigender with additional complexities to it.
Genderfluid-ish - A term for for when someone's close to but not quite genderfluid. This can be for a variety of reasons, including one having the fluidity of one's gender(s) be very slow so it's often felt as static, having both fluid and static genders, one being unsure if their gender is fluid or flux, questioning one's gender, any other experiences of near but not exact non genderfluidity and/or non genderfluidity with additional complexities to it.
#non binary-ish#non binaryish#maverique-ish#maveriqueish#agender-ish#agenderish#neutrois-ish#neutroisish#androgyne-ish#androgyneish#multigender-ish#multigenderish#bigender-ish#bigenderish#genderfluid-ish#genderfluidish#queer-ish#queerish#variant-ish#variantish#queer#liom#mogai#flags#our flags#-v#queer coining#long post
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I want to ask you to delete one of my asks but I’m too nervous to dm you what do
If you remember what you said, you can just tell me and I'll delete it?
#or you can dm me. i swear i'm nice#ish. i'm nice ish. i will be nice to you if you dm me#asks#not multigender
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(I do have a pin that’s the original flag. But that’s because that’s the one they had at my local pride and I was just very excited to see bigender at all lmao)
Idc about flag creator drama, it’s essentially just a pretty color palette and most people have no idea about the creator of most flags anyway, but I do find it annoying when people use the like. ORIGINAL bigender flag.
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/84f6550c94a45b79141362c1370e5dca/806538dd7b60dd5a-16/s540x810/8322668299134e2e0469d4ecfdfb6572c20670bf.jpg)
The middle one is sooo much better aesthetically and basically the same in terms of symbolism. I hate that desaturated ass purple.
#I’m only kinda bigender anyway.. I use the flag cuz I like it but nailing down how many genders I got in here is tricky#it’s like. two ish. 2+. kinda like how ppl use bisexual I guess?#and I hate the multigender flag. sorry. dark blue and orange is my least favorite color palette#Icarus is talking
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hi! wanna add my two bits to the topic :-) i'm isogender! it's defined as being neither cis nor trans, but for me at least, that also includes nonbinary. i'm not any of them. i'm not even quite agender or genderqueer, (though the latter i do sorta half-use). isogender is the only label i've been able to find that feels wholly accurate to my experience, probably because it only describes what my gender-or-lack-thereof ISN'T. i'm under no umbrellas. i'm just off frolicking in the rain.
but isogender isn't very well-known, and since discovering it, it's made me realize that our online community is rather binary-izing. even with stuff like agender, genderqueer, multigender being somewhat well-known-ish, i see a lot of people displaying this sort of idea that there's only three ways to be: cis, trans, and nb/under the nb umbrella. one example i can think of is a lot of polls i see will split catagories up into "cis" and "trans/nb". what about all the people that aren't one of those? what about the people that fit both catagories? there's never even an "other" button. additionally, with this idea of "there's only either cis or trans/nb" that leaves out people who don't fit those catagories, it leads to assumptions. i'm afab and want top surgery, but not to go on T unless they figure out a way to make the effects targetable. i've been assumed to be transmasc just because i want my boobs off, even when there's such a wide variety of identities out there who could want top surgery, including cis people!
i just wish we could all quit it with the policing and assuming and get on with the accepting and solidarity already. everyone stop being feds, return to hippie!!
thank you so much, i really appreciate this! also i agree, return to hippie
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(NEW!/UPDATE: NEWER REVAMPED LEOPOLDIQUEER/LAZULIQUEER HAVE BEEN ADDED, SCROLL DOWN & CLICK READ MORE TO VIEW THE NEWER FLAG DESIGNS!)
TERM COINING TIME WOOHOOOOOO
Leopoldiqueer (LEE-oh-POL-dee-k-WEE-r) AKA Lazuliqueer (lah-ZOO-lee-k-WEE-r) (tagging my friend @kaijynx so ze can see this post)
Name origins:
Leopoldiqueer: Leopold Nord & Vous (a random belgian band/musical duo i chose for some reason while coining the term to use as the name, but i also made lazuliqueer as an alternate name for leopoldiqueer + this term has nothing to do with leopold nord & vous fyi, idk why i chose that) + queer
Lazuliqueer: Lapis Lazuli (As in the rock) + queer
(this term is strictly anti radqueer/prat btw)
This is a term for ppl who are against/anti:
Radqueers (aka PRATS)/transids/MUDS/transage/transabled/xenosatanist/etc
MAPS/NOMAPS/AAMS
Proship/Darkship/whatever theyre calling themselves now/etc
Exclusionists/Gravity Knife Gays/Longsword Lesbians/Battleaxe Bis/anti MOGAI/etc
TERFS/Transmeds (aka truscums)/Transphobes/etc
Xenogenderphobia
Bigots
Fetrah (even tho im not arabic myself, i still think fetrahs are pretty bad tbh)
Zoos
and others
This term is also for ppl who support/pro:
Fictosexuality,Objectum,Selfshipping
MSPEC monos (MSPEC gays & lesbians), good faith identities/contradictory labels & xenogenders/neopronouns/etc
the cringe culture is dead movement
Multigender ppl
Therians
Otherkins
Nonhumans/Alterhumanity
Systems of all origins
MOGAI
and others
Uhhh also alternate leopoldiqueer/lazuliqueer flag bc yes
Also some userboxes bc yes (and the lotus symbol which i found on a random clipart site & thought it looked cool, i only did the white border edit of it tho)
Stripe meanings on the 1st Leopoldiqueer/Lazuliqueer flag (pastel purple,green,white) (the lotus is for decorative purposes only and has no meaning)
pastel purple: Community
pastel green: Harmony
darker ish green: being anti radqueer
white: spirit/inclusivity
Stripe meanings on the 2nd Leopoldiqueer/Lazuliqueer flag (white, blue, dark blue, purple, darker purple) (the lotus is for decorative purposes only and has no meaning)
white: harmony
blue: power
darker blue: being anti radqueer
purple: community
darker purple: strength
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/782138007d84ce6bdb6a35426049aca5/54701fc743050aa1-1d/s540x810/b50800d188dc3702df5e611c3d840a331bbff3ed.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/f64f335002296faf6a4f7bef28d5d722/54701fc743050aa1-86/s540x810/e5d3c992a7eb3360eed73d5540fcc9dffddaeffe.jpg)
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/e43ba7a230126d0bf37c3f0baa3ec945/54701fc743050aa1-03/s540x810/8f1c322b3b14adbcac1fad22c46f542da175493a.jpg)
NEWER LEOPOLDIQUEER/LAZULIQUEER FLAG DESIGNS HAVE BEEN ADDED! (9 stripes w/ additional simplified 7 stripes & 5 stripes versions)
Stripe meanings on the new revamped Leopoldiqueer/Lazuliqueer flag (green, cream, purple) (the lotus is for decorative purposes only and has no meaning)
green stripes: community/hamony
cream: power/strength purple stripes: being anti radqueer/hoping for a more inclusive future
#coining#anti rq#anti radqueer#anti transid#anti prat#radqueers fuck off#anti proshitter#mspec safe#mspec lesbian safe#gaybian safe#lesboy safe#flags#idk#xenogender safe#neopronouns safe#anti 🍓🌈#anti proshipper
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okay half thought out post time ! i struggle with words sometimes so i hope this makes sense
okay look. i know what you guys are trying to do when you say “if you’re not trans, you’re cis.” you’re referring to all those shitty people who think cis is a slur for some reason or “i’m not cis, i’m a REAL WOMAN” and that shit. and the intent is right obviously ! there’s nothing wrong with the word cisgender, and the only reason assholes say that it’s a slur is because they use the word trans as a slur.
but here’s the thing: you’re wrong.
“if you’re not trans, you’re cis” does nothing but reinvent a binary: the binary of trans/cis. and that’s not helpful. there are gender-fluid folks who might say “well, i’m a girl today so i’m trans, but yesterday i was a boy, so cis.” i’ve met multiple people who say things like “yeah i’m cis-ish, but still funky in the gender” or “technically my identity falls under the trans umbrella, but i don’t use the label trans. i’m not cis though.”
like, binaries are good for no one. and there’s a VAST difference between someone saying “i’m multigender and don’t feel like either of those labels define me accurately” and someone else saying “i’m not CIS! how dare you call me a CISGENDER ! i am a NATURAL REAL MALE !” it’s all about whether it’s in good faith or not.
so just like, be aware that when you say that stuff, it can be weird or isolating or uncomfortable who folks who don’t think either of those labels work for them, or don’t use labels at all, or who exist somewhere in between cis and trans, or whose genders fluctuate from day to know. rambling thoughts over - have a good day!
this is not a discourse post. TERFS and transphobes are not allowed to debate me about the validity of trans identity, you will be blocked.
#emo moss talks#trans#trans rights#trans rights are human rights#transgender#cisgender#intersex#genderqueer#queer#queer stuff#multigender#gender-fluid#gender fluid#genderfluid
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So, today I was in Times Square and saw a Microsoft ad that really prominently featured the aro flag. I like to pretend I'm not someone to freak out over seeing my own flag anymore, but like, the idea that aromanticism is important enough for Microsoft to show it in Times Square? Yeah. That blew me away. So I looked up the full ad (it was a much smaller variant in Times Square) and. Woah. Someone at Microsoft knows their queer microlabels. I never expected to see the neurogender flag in the marketing for an evil company?
Like. Pangender and polygender. Androromantic and gynoromantic. Transneutral. Graygender. Maverique. Neutrois. Unlabeled. Ambiamorous. Diamoric. Pomosexual. Intergender. Xenogender. Aporagender. Egogender. Hijira. None of these are identities I'd expect to see used by goddamn Microsoft.
There is exactly one Microsoft employee who I worship and who isn't getting paid enough.
Full labelling and breakdown of flags below, courtesy of @the-crystalized-cosmos. Only after they did all the work of figuring out all the flags and labeling them did I learn that microsoft also did that themselves here. And that version is slightly bigger, revealing flags that aren't in this version: transfeminine, aroflux, gender neutral, and multigender.
I swear I'm not a Microsoft shill. Fuck Microsoft. But like, this is I think the best corporate pride art I've ever seen, and anything with this many flags in it is guaranteed to make me excited. I just really, really, really like flags.
[Image ID: Two versions of a collage of pride flags in swirls, loops, and rings. The top is the original image, while the bottom has the names of the flags written on it. The flags included are:
Left (ish):
Polyromantic, Ambiamorous, Asexual, Abrosexual, Waria, Neutrois, Aromantic, Pansexual, Gynosexual, Intergender, Maveriquw, Androromantic, Genderqueer, Hijra, Egogender, Multigender, Diamoric, Demisexual, Omniromantic
Middle (ish):
Omnisexual, Genderfluid, Polygender, Queerhet, Ally, Inclusive Rainbow/Pride, Trans, more Genderqueer, Demigender, Bisexual, Lesbian, Multisexual/Mspec, Aspec, Graysexual, More Abro (unnamed in picture, whoops), Aspec, Demifluid, Demigirl, Skoliosexual, Fraysexual, Ceterosexual, Androsexual, Abroromantic, Transmasc, Xenogender, Demiromantic, Gay Man/Turian/Veldian, Transneutral, Panromantic
Right (ish): 2 Spirit, Biromantic, Polyamorous, more Asexual, Sapphic, Pangender, Queer, Questioning, Demiboy, Intersex, Trigender, Unlabled, more Omnisexual, AroAce, Graygender, Neurogender, Pomosexual, Bigender, Agender, Aceflux, Aporagender, Mogai Symbol]
#pride flags#pride month#pride#lgbtq#lgbt#queer#vexillology#flags#mogai#microlabels#neurogender#mogai label
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Okay ball update
I'm going to attempt a full ID.
[Image ID: A ballsona in the LGBallT style. The flags as pictured are:
Main ball: Asexual (black, gray, white, purple) on the left; cupiosexual (light gray, dusty light periwinkle, white, light pink) on the right.
Third eye: Everique (pastel red, orange, yellow, green, and blue with white stripes between each stripe, and a dark purple stripe through the yellow stripe. In the middle of that is a lighter purple circle outlined by the darker purple and with a darker purple heart. The purple is all outlined in white too.
Eyeshadow: Para-oriented (blue, dark blue, slate gray, white, slate gray, teal, turquoise) on the left, para-oriented ace (blue, dark blue, slate gray, white, gray, dark purple, purple) on the right.
Whiskers: Doe lesbian (brown, light brown, lighter brown, white, very light pink, light pink, pink) upper left, cotton cloud lesbian (pink, light pink, lighter pink, thin pink, white, thin gray, silver, light gray, gray) middle left, sea femme enbian (dark cyan, saturated dark blue, blue, slightly lighter blue, purple, light magenta, pink, white) lower left, femme mspec (dark violet, hot pink, orange, light yellow, sea green, blue) upper right, femme bi lesbian (dark violet, violet, red, salmon, white, light pink, magenta-plum, violet) middle right, femme omni lesbian (pale purple-ish pink, light purple-ish pink, purple, dark blue, bright sea foam green) bottom right.
Tails: Acespec (navy blue, desaturated purple, desaturated pink, desaturated cream) on the left, arosespec (soft forest green, blueish off white, desaturated purple, desaturated navy blue) in the middle, arospec (green, light green, yellow, dark teal, darker teal) on the right.
Left ear: Bi lesbian (dark indigo, violet, pink, orange, cream) outer, bi lilaen (dark violet, desaturated violet, lavender, blueish off white, periwinkle) inner, bi gay (fuschia, desaturated fuschia, light desaturated purple, desaturated dark periwinkle, blue) inner ear tuft
Left ear halos: Les4Bi (desaturated red, red, slightly pastel orange, orange-ish off white, desaturated magenta, desaturated purple, dusty indigo) in the front, Bi4Bi (dusty pink, dusty violet, dusty blue, dusty sea green) in the back
Left ear earrings: Woman/girl (burnt reddish orange, orange, pale yellow-orange, yellowish off white, reddish light pink) upper circle, hypergirl (silver, white, pink, black, pink, white, silver) upper rectangle, cisfem enby (desaturated gold, white, dusty magenta-violet, darker and desaturated magenta-violet, dark warm gray) lower rectangle, girlby (pastel orange, yellow, white, pink, violet, dark gray) lower circle, Bigender (sky blue, light sky blue, white, purple, white, light pink, pink) uppermost ring, Bigender W+NB (slightly dark gold, yellow, white, purple, white, light pink, pink) upper-middle ring, multigender (sky blue, indigo, violet, hot pink, desaturated orange) middle ring, Bigendermeld (dark sky blue, slighty dark sky blue, light silvery blue, purplish off white, light purple, purplish off white, very light pink, pink, dark fuschia) lower middle ring girlbymesh (hot pink, purple, yellow, white, yellow, purple, hot pink) lowermost ring.
Right ear: Lunian (dusty dark indigo, purple, dusty sky blue, greenish turquoise, sea foam green) outer, lobelian (dusty dark blue, dusty purple, light lavender, purplish off white, dusty pink) inner, stellian (dark magenta, burnt orange, light yellow, purple, dark blue) inner ear tuft
Right ear halos: Mspec4Mspec (blue, sky blue, light saturated green, pale orange, dusty pink, purple) front, Amphic (purple, light sky blue, white, pinkish red, white, light sky blue, purple) back
Right ear earrings: Genderqueer (pinkish violet, white, light yellow, grass green) lower circle, deminonbinary (gray, light gray, yellow, white, yellow, light gray, gray) lower rectangle, aporagender (pink, dusty lavender, yellow, dusty lavender, sky blue) upper rectangle, cisgender (bright pink, bright sky blue) upper circle. Resembles the Fetrah flag (an anti LGBT group) but I'm either stealing their flag and repurposing it or I'm accusing them of stealing my cis flag, whichever I find funnier. There is a black chain between the lower and upper circles. Transneucisfem (dark gray, gold, yellow, white, light pink, slightly dark pink, dark red) lowermost ring, feminine (dark red, red, pink, light pink, pinkish off white, light pink, magenta, violet, purple) lower middle ring, primagirl (purple, hot pink, thin pale yellow-orange, yellow, thin pale yellow-orange, hot pink, purple) middle ring, femme (reddish salmon, orange, pinkish off white, plum, purple) upper middle ring, presentationflux (dark pink, pink, light pink, purple, yellow, purple, light cyan, cyan, dark cyan) uppermost ring.
Beanie: Lesbian (purple, violet, pink, white, salmon, pale orange, light yellow) main
Beanie patches: Evenic (bluish purple, light purple, yellow, orange, dark magenta, very dark violet) upper left, sun sapphic (orange, light yellow, white, purple flower with yellow center, light pink, slightly dark reddish hot pink) right
Beanie rim: Gay enbian (bluish purple, sky blue, very light blue, light lavender, purplish pink, plum, dark dusty violet) left, gay (bluish purple, sky blue, light saturated green, dusty orange, pink, violet, dark dusty violet) middle, gay lesbian (magenta, red, orange, yellow-orange, white, dusty orange, pink, violet, dark dusty violet) right.
Beanie rim pins, left to right: Aquarian (dark cyan, sky blue, light sky blue, bluish off white, light pink, violet, purple), saltwater aquarian (dark cyan, cyan, greenish turquoise, sea green tinted off white, silvery purple, indigo, dark indigo), bi enbian (dusty blue, bluish purple, desaturated periwinkle, purplish off white, desaturated lavender, violet, dark violet), planetary stellian (dark magenta, neon light orange, neon yellow, bright purple, dark blue), planetary bi gay, (reddish pink, bright neon pink, periwinkle, neon bluish purple, saturated dark blue), omni gay (light pink, magenta, very dark purple, purple, light blue), planetary omni gay (light pink, hot pink, very dark purple, bright neon purple, bright neon sky blue), full moon springtide lunian (very dark dusty blue, bright indigo, sky blue, sea foam green, white), full moon springtide bi lesbian (dark purple, violet, neon pink, salmon, white) omni lesbian (dark purple, plum, saturated periwinkle, lavender, cream), full moon springtide omni lesbian (dark dusty purple, purple, periwinkle, silvery purple, white).
Beanie flower pin: Midnight sapphic (yellow middle, purple petals, dark purple clips)
Scarf: Demiromantic (white, thin green, and silver with black chevron) left, neurodemiromantic (very thin silver, white, very thin silver, very thin green, thin lime, very thin green, very thin white, silver, very thin white) middle, autidemiromantic (same as neurodemiromantic but in an infinity shape) right.
Scarf pins, left to right: She/they (purple, pink, dark magenta, white, yellow, bright purple, dark purple), lilae lunian (purple, dusty sky blue, greenish turquoise, pink, violet, dark purple), aneuspec (dark purple, light purple, silvery blue, blue gray, dark blue gray), neuroeuphoric (light lavender, light purple, purple, magenta, pale orange), quoieuphoric (dark purple, light purple, black, white, black, green, cyan), neuroquoieuphoric (dark pink, pink, black, white, black, green, cyan), lilaen (dark purple, dusty pinkish purple, light lavender, pinkish off white, pink), omni lilaen (pink, dusty darker pink, dusty dark purple, light sky blue, bluish off white).
Left scarf tail: Acemid (Purple, lighter purple, periwinke tinted off-white, sky blue, dark cyan) tassles, cupioromantic (light salmon, lighter salmon, white, dusty light lavender, light gray) lower patch, cupiospec (pink, desaturated light pink, light pink, white, light purple, purple, black with light sky blue diamond in the middle) middle patch, cupiorose (gray, light purple, white, light pink, pink) upper patch.
Right scarf tail: Aspec (black upper left quadrant, plum lower left quadrant, green upper right quadrant, gray lower left quadrant, white star in the middle) upper patch, lovecoric ace (orange, pale orange, yellow, thin slightly light purple, purple, thin slightly light purple, yellow, pale orange, orange) middle patch, angled aroace (gold, light yellow, white, greenish teal) lower patch, ánisic aroace (dark reddish orange, orange, orange-ish off white, dusty purple, dark violet) tassles.
Left main wing: Mspec (green, cyan, blue, indigo, purple, violet, hot pink, orange, golden yellow) main feather, pluralian (purple, white, purple with yellow flower symbol with green stems and reddish pink stem tips) uppermost inner feather, plurian (blue, bright green, yellow, pink, dark purple) upper-middle inner feather, multi (purple, white, light sky blue, magenta) lower-middle inner feather, multiceter (purple, white, yellow, green) lowermost inner feather, bi (pinkish red, purple, dark blue) uppermost outer feather, tulim (green, white, light sky blue, light purple) upper-middle outer feather, syn (blue, indigo, violet, magenta, pink) middle outer feather, periso (blue, periwinkle, purplish off white, slightly light red, yellow, pale orange, dusty reddish orange) lower-middle outer feather, spectra (pink, purple, white, neon turquoise, sky blue) lowermost outer feather.
Right main wing: Primlunic (purple, desaturated purple, pale pink, dusty pink, pale yellow) main feather, Enbisian (dark purple, bright violet, bright orange, reddish pink) uppermost inner feather, trixenamoric (light yellow, very light pale orange, light orange-ish red, thin pink, white, thin pink, light pink, lavender, periwinkle) upper middle inner feather, venusic (very light pale pink, very light pale yellow, very light pale desaturated orange, light desaturated red, very light desaturated brown, light desaturated brown) lower middle inner feather, faunic (tan, light brown, brown, desaturated reddish pink light pink) lowermost inner feather, iridian (dusty navy blue, desaturated violet, saturated salmon, purplish off white, saturated salmon, dusty red, dusty dark magenta) uppermost outer feather, hecatolic (light sky blue, light desaturated sky blue, silver, light slate gray, slate gray, stormy blue gray) upper middle outer feather, axinitian (dusty magenta-violet, pink, orange, yellow, white, yellow, orange, pink, magenta-violet) middle outer feather, agatic (dark red, fuschia, magenta, light dusty purple, yellowish off white, light yellow-orange, orange, red, dark red) lower middle outer feather, asterian (very light pale pink, pink, light purple, purple, magenta, orange, yellow) lowermost outer feather.
Upper left wing: Neptunic (bluish teal, light teal, sea foam green, very light pale blue, light periwinkle, periwinke) main feather, omni neptunic (turquoise, bluish light teal, bluish teal, dark blue, dusty light indigo, light purple, light periwinkle) upper inner feather, bi neptunic (pinkish red, pink, light magenta, pale light magenta, sky blue, light blue) middle feather, enbian neptunic lesbian (periwinkle, teal, sea green, pinkish off white, light dusty violet, dusty pink, light pink) lower feather, neptunitrixbian (dark reddish orange, light orange, light orange-ish yellow, light pale yellow, bright sea green, sea green, dark teal) uppermost outer feather, neptunisaph (dark dusty pink, magenta, pink, pale yellow, green, dark teal) upper middle outer feather, neptunitrix (slightly dark dusty blue, slightly dark dusty purple, pink, light yellow, sky blue, saturated slightly dark blue, dusty dark purple) lower middle outer feather, thalassic (greenish turquoise, periwinkle, purple, magenta, pink) lowermost outer feather
Upper right wing: Femique (dark blue, dusty indigo, violet, pink, light pink) main feather, tribade (dark reddish pink, slightly dark red, white, hot pink, light pink with a very dark red moon symbol) upper inner feather, Fenin (orange, very light pale orange, light pale yellow, very light pale orange, orange) middle inner feather, violettian (violet, dusty pink, desaturated yellow, silver, dusty purple) lower inner feather, despian (very dark saturated indigo, dark greenish teal, saturated periwinke, light desaturated lavender, very light pale yellow) uppermost outer feather, hibarian (magenta-violet, hot pink, yellow, turquoise, blue) upper-middle outer feather, Liersic (white, light violet, reddish pink, salmon) lower-middle outer feather, femaric (black, white, pink) lowermost outer feather
Lower left wing: Enbian (dusty dark indigo, dusty dark purple, slightly lighter indigo, indigo, dusty slightly dark purple, dusty purple, slightly dark dusty lavender) main feather, enviolet (dark blue, lavender, very light pale pink, light pink, very light pale pink, lavender, dark blue), upper inner feather, enbian lesbian (dusty dark indigo, dusty purple, light lavender, very light pale yellow, dusty blue) middle inner feather, ammolic (dark violet, desaturated purple, yellow, pale orange, dark dusty reddish orange) lower inner feather, begonia (light pale salmon, light pale desaturated salmon, very light pale desaturated salmon, white, light gold, very light desaturated gold, light pale yellow) uppermost outer feather, Brownitian (dusty green, slightly lighter desaturated green, light dusty green, desaturated light lime, brown, slightly darker brown, dark brown) upper-middle outer feather, carnian (dark reddish pink, saturated salmon, light pale orange, yellowish off white, purplish pink, dark purple, very dark blue) lower-middle outer feather, fincuan (violet, light pink, yellow, pale orange, reddish orange) lowermost outer feather
Lower right wing: Trixic (dusty violet, light magenta, light pink, pale yellow, golden yellow) main feather, vaporic (dusty dark violet, dusty violet, pale light pink, white, golden yellow) upper inner feather, bi trixic (dusty dark indigo, dusty purple, dusty pink, white, light gold) middle inner feather, steam vaporic (light pale violet, light pale magenta, light pale salmon, white, light pale yellow) lower inner feather, orbisian (light pink, pink, magenta, purple, saturated dark blue) uppermost outer feather, sapphixic (light magenta, light pink, light golden yellow, light pale yellow, light pale pink, pink) upper-middle outer feather, trixic lesbian (dark desaturated red, desaturated orange, desaturated gold, white, desaturated reddish pink, desaturated slightly dark blue violet, dusty dark purple) lower-middle outer feather, enbitrix (dark purple, purple, lavender, lighter lavender, slightly light orange) lowermost outer feather
Infinity halo: autism (red, orange, yellow, lime, green with a small white line perpendicular to the others)
Horizontal halo: Schrodinger's Omni (slightly light slightly dusty blue, blue, slightly darker blue, dark saturated blue, black, dark pink, slightly lighter dark pink, desaturated slightly dark pink, desaturated pink) front, aroace lunian (dark green, desaturated tealish green, light tealish green, white, light blue, dusty purple, dark desaturated violet) back
Hanging orbs, front, left to right: demi omni lesbian (dark purple, plum, saturated periwinkle, lavender, cream, with a black chevron), demi bi lesbian (dark indigo, violet, pink, orange, cream, with a black chevron), arospec omni lesbian (dark purple, plum, saturated periwinkle, lavender, cream, light green, slightly darker light green), arospec lunian (dusty dark indigo, purple, dusty sky blue, greenish turquoise, sea foam green, light green, slightly darker light green), acespec omni lesbian (dark purple, plum, saturated periwinkle, lavender, cream, light cyan, periwinkle), arospec bi lesbian (dark indigo, violet, pink, orange, cream, light green, slightly darker light green)
Hanging orbs, back, left to right: dove lesbian (desaturated red, light red, tan, white, silver, brownish light gray), artemis lesbian (light gray, silver, light silver, white, bright green, teal, slightly darker teal with the black outline of a moon, and a black outline of an arrow), ace lesbian (dark dusty purple, desaturated purple, light pale lavender, white, dusty light purple, purple, darker purple), aspec mspec lesbian (bright lime, bright salmon, hot pink, dark violet, even darker violet), acespec lunian (dusty dark indigo, purple, dusty sky blue, greenish turquoise, sea foam green, light cyan, periwinkle), acespec bi lesbian (dark indigo, violet, pink, orange, cream, light cyan, periwinkle)
Negative slope halo (yes if this were a line on a graph the slope would be negative): Azalean (reddish pink, desaturated pink, light pink, white, purple, plum, dark pink) front, mspec sapphic (light yellow, gold, orange, hot pink, magenta, pinkish off white, magenta, hot pink, orange, gold, light yellow) back
Hanging orbs, front, left to right: orchid ace (blue, indigo-blue, light periwinkle, bluish off white, light periwinke, light purple, purple), bigender mspec lesbian (cream, very desaturated light pink, very desaturated reddish pink, violet, dark purple, desaturated slightly dark periwinkle, light blue) hydrangea bi (pink, slightly lighter pink, very light pale purple, pinkish off white, very light pale purple, indigo, blue), disabled (gray, pale red, pale yellow, white, pale blue, green, gray), lesbiall (dusty indigo, purple, magenta, salmon, orange, yellow, yellowish off white) cupio iridian (desaturated reddish orange, dusty orange, very light pale yellow, dusty green, desaturated darker green)
Hanging orbs, back, left to right: queer mspec lesbian (very dark purple, magenta-violet, lavender, very light pale yellow, light gold), meow lesbian (saturated salmon, salmon, light dusty salmon, light pink with cat ears and a tail, a red heart nose, white inner ears, white tail tip, and white whiskers, light purple, slightly darker light purple, purple), catvesi (purple, magenta, salmon, thin yellow, sky blue, slightly light blue, purple, with a purple star), cupio hecatolic (desaturated reddish brown, light gold, pale yellow, dusty indigo-purple, greenish gray), cupio axinitian (dark pink, pink, pale light green, light dusty periwinkle, dusty periwinkle) new sapphic (orangeish red, light yellow, white, sea green, purple)
Positive slope halo: Multi-oriented (very light pale desaturated lavender, desaturated pale light blue, very light pale cyan, very light pale green, very light silver, white, very light silver, very light yellow, very light pale orange, very light pale salmon, light red) front, orientation collector (black, dusty dark red, dusty dark orange, dark yellow, green, blue, purple, black) back.
Hanging orbs, front, left to right: binitor (dark gray, light blue, dark gray, with a dusty red x), queerfuck (dark purple, black, dark red, blue, black, dark purple, with a white eye outlined in black and with a black swirl), demetic (very dark saturated indigo, slightly dark dusty blue, light blue, light periwinkle, bluish off white), pollo (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple on the left side, reverse order of the same colors on the right, with a white circle in the middle), artemisian (dark blue, purple, turquoise, purple, dark blue), label hoarder (pastel red, pastel orange, pastel yellow, pastel blue, pastel purple with a white infinity halo outlined in pastel pink)
Hanging orbs, back, left to right: enboric (black, white, light green), marina lunian (dark violet, dusty dark purple, teal, green, bright sea green), nomin (yellow, light gold, very pale orange, very light pale pink), omni bi lesbian (tan, hot pink, violet, dark purple, sky blue), selenian bi (dusty violet, purple, light purple, periwinkle, light periwinkle) amethystian (pale yellow, desaturated pale pink, violet, dusty purple, dusty dark purple)
Inner halo star: QLW lesbitrix enbian (dark orangish red, reddish orange, orangish yellow, yellowish off white, light magenta-pink, purple, dark indigo with a dark pink moon and purple flower both outlined by light pink)
Inner halo diamonds: enbigirl (dusty purple, purple, lavender, very light pale orange, reddish orange, red) top left, trixigirl (purple, pale lavender, very light pale orange, reddish orange, red) top right, bigender lesbian (dark reddish orange, salmon, light pink, white, light pink, light purple, purple) middle left, nonbinary lesbian (dusty orange, light gold, very light desaturated yellow, white, desaturated pink, dusty dark magenta, black) middle right, demi-enby enbian (dark purple, slightly lighter dark purple, purple, periwinkle-silver, silver, gray) bottom left, nonbinary bi (pink, lighter pink, dusty purple, indigo, dark dusty blue) bottom right.
Outer halo orbs: aurora lesbian (dark indigo, violet, light pink, very light yellow, turquoise) top left, xLx collector (hot pink, reddish orange, light pale orange, light pale yellow, yellowish off white with dark magenta, violet, and purple heart symbols) bottom left, black cat lesbian (bluish black, dusty very dark blue, dusty dark blue, dark gold, burnt orange, dark red, darker red) top right, anti radqueer radinclus (turquoise, light green, orange, dusty pinkish red, dark desaturated brown with a white 4-point star and 5 white long hearts surrounding it in the center) bottom right.
Heart above halos: inclus (pale desaturated pink, pink, blue, pale desaturated blue with a white heart shape in the middle)
Floating symbols: Lykoi lesbian cat (dark pink, hot pink, yellow, white, blue, purple, dark purple with brown markings making up the face of a lykoi cat) at the top left corner, lydian orb (gold, pale gold, white, pale lavender, lavender) between the upper and middle left wings, neurocollector spade (dark purple, dusty violet, violet, black, teal, dusty teal, dark teal with a gold infinity symbol in the middle) next to the upper and middle left wings, termcollector heart (black, thin bluish black, very dark blue, thin dusty dark blue, blue, thin indigo, bright purple, thin dusty purple, violet, thin slightly dark violet, dark violet, thin very dark violet, black) next to middle and lower left wings switchblade sapphic (switchblade with a yellow handle and the classic pink-white-pink sapphic flag with the sapphic flower) just below the termcollector heart, pencontrasexual diamond (desaturated pinkish red, dusty purple, dark gray, dusty blue) between the acespec and arosespec tails, trident trixic trident with enby and woman symbols on its sides (slightly dusty purple, purple, slightly lighter purple, yellow, orange, slightly darker orange, slightly dark desaturated orange) overlapping with the arosespec tail, queerian diamond (dark purple, dusty lavender, white, pink, saturated dark violet) between the arosespec and arospec tails, candy cane bi candy cane (very light pale reddish pink, pale salmon, light pale lavender) next to right tail scarf, labelfuck clover/club shape (as it's known in playing cards) (black with two rainbow stripes outlined in white. The black is not pure black but pretty close, but the very top and bottom are pure black) just above the candy cane, QLW enbian orb (dusty dark blue, purple, yellowish off white, dusty pink, dusty dark magenta) between the upper and middle right wings, mspec lesbian ally diamond (dusty pink, pink, yellow, white, purple, pink, dusty pink with a light pink moon and darker purple-ish pink flowers) to the right and upwards of the QLW enbian orb, nuclear bomb neptunic (the neptunic flag, as described earlier, but plastered onto a nuclear bomb shape)
That's all. That's everything. This took so long. But now I can officially say, End ID.]
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It's Multigender Awareness Day
so please be aware of the following blorbos:
Edith: genderfluid, has the most genders (8)
Horatio: has slightly less genders (6 ish)
Umedes: genderflux, has an unknown number of genders (very mysterious)
Corcra: genderfluid, has 2 genders
Garleth (Spinder's adoptive dad): genderfluid, has probably 3 or 4 genders
uep and neriem are kind of edge cases because their gender system works differently than nonroot gender systems but I'm going to count a couple of them anyway:
Tirias: he/she, would be androgyne if she was nonroot
Rae: any pronouns, would have many genders together as a gender of many facets
Rigo: he/they, would probably be genderflux between dude and at least one neutral gender
also please be aware of me, resident genderfluid genderqueer androgyne faggot ^-^
#multigender awareness day#c: Edith#c: Horatio#c: Umedes#c: Corcra#c: Tirias#c: Rae#c: Rigo#c: Garleth
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Queer-ish, and Variant-ish
To match the Conformant-ish flags.(because my mind gets evil if things aren't in matching sets)
These exist as umbrella terms for the other term, as someone is already ""fully"" queer by identifying with any of the specific terms.
Please note these are meant to be self description terms, and should not be used on people who do not self identify with them. And nobody has to use these term, even if they exactly match an example used on the posts.
2 (homo-ish), 3 (Mspec-ish), 4 (trans-ish) , 5 (non-binary-ish and multigender-ish), 6 (aspec-ish).
Genderqueer-ish, and Polyamorous-ish
A term for for when someone's close to but not quite genderqueer. The label genderqueer includes many different experiences, so this label's definition would be completely up to a person using it.
A term for for when someone's close to but not quite polyamorous. This can be for a variety of reasons, including being polyflexible, being polyamorous in most types relationships but not all, questioning one's amory and be pretty sure you're polyamorous but not certain, any other experiences of near but not exactly polyamorous and/or polyamorous with additional complexities to it.
#queer-ish#queerish#variant-ish#variantish#genderqueer-ish#genderqueerish#polyamorous-ish#polyamorousish#queer#liom#mogai#flags#our flags#-v#queer coining
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hm
Thinking abiut ......Tthe rockrs (remaking my how they got 2gether lore ++ Also wanting to make one for srocker but theyre not nearly as fleshed out as jj 😭i mesn. He kinda is but i dint knoww)?guhhhhhhh Thought dump
uh Imoodranr to note ill ev talking avout uh sthuff like suicide andall. bb careful ok
uh uh uh uhhhhhh Okay so likeeeee. jj was fuxken Deoressed during the . the obetime shge cmstoppped making music
frankly i wana chabge the time where she started #/Girling . Bc i think its be really funny if she like. stopped w her career whn she stil was an egg and then came back with like. jj knockersHAJAHAJSHDJAJSJS SORRY.
Therye so cute id eat glass for them
What if they sorta cracked each others eggs somehow.... Like idk srockee r helps her out she hlps him too
MULTIGENDER YURI. BTW
Oh uh back 2 the first Point uhhhhhh sorry. Uh so jjwS like depressed rihht. She felt erhere were obly 2 options. either ending her career or her life
idk I'll be real i do not think that her first attempt was after the injury. Shse had multiple (esp when she was like.. a teenager (16-18) bc shewas having a horrible gedner crisis and also jsut. Going "fuck everythign 🖕" and runibg away frim homr (bc in my loreeeee shes adopted abdthe only perdon who cared abt her was hervsister(erina)(bc i hc her ro ve her suster)}OWWFUCK MY HAIF IS ITHCY
Yeah im just considering making her even worse ans givinv her pixiv fic writer-levels of Issues.
i remember uh a post That might be really insensitive bc I never had it but i akso thougt of . like. jj bejgn used just bc of her fame. Uh like uhh. I dont knowwww i never had it but like people whod just. pressure her itno sex and then leave her. Bc like. BANDO DE INTERESSEIRO tehre I cant word it englishly
I JUSUT RRALIZED THID POAT ISA LIE THIS IS JIST ME TRAUMATIZING JJ LOL
Her srudet isfn safe either. Ever aince he qas little he had the expectacration that he Must be good ar stuff . like. he was the Golden Child. and then as you kniw golden chukd burnout..adn jg got even wirsr
I dfk i font Lore him as much
i mwan i do just make him me
buf cooler
and more transgendef
Anyways they both have beef with tsunku (silly way of saying They bigh vave relgionus trauma
jj also had a seuxkaify crisis for yrs and in those same relarionships that shed get used in shed force herself to be So Heteronormative . Shitty relationship after shitty relationship . Abd jnternalized gomophobia Okay ill edit tbus post later im tried oftypinh
BY LATERe IEMANN Now CHrALSLHO, N
ok so jj was like suuuuuper duper depresse d during the. parada in music. Its ljke i said theree eyah!!
and when shefinsly got better (phsyically) she fot worse (mentally). I dont know maybe she just. The Anxiety..mixed w the Presure of being back ons stage
important ish to note ghat she DID NOTT EAT WELL like she Wouldnt eat a proper breakfast. Not even in an inability 2 get up/executive dysfuction (is that the right term) way but more in a "i dont deserve it" way
thya all chanhed when she met srocker!! waow
Hinestly. why Did she start doing guitar lessons ?
anyways.
He was like. a chulll guy. And like she actually staretd tobturst him (SOEMTHING THAT WAS GRADUAL,BTW. SROCKER FELL FIRST AND REALLY QUICK THO . AS IN LIKE IMMEDIATELY FINDING HER THE HOTTEST SHIT EVR HES RIGHT FOR IT BTW AND..YEA
And srocker notices that jj doesmt seem .. too well? She still doesnt eat well btw. but like she has someone she actually kinda Trusts :)
Somehow they got 2 know where each others house is. idfk how hyey js did
at thispooint sr lives withj Pierce (police call guy ) annd jj Alone . <- unrelated but what if sr mover in w hertobher houde wthen thhey gir togrthr.
and um uh so (a scenario that i plan on making s fic of) is like. sr makws jj a meal bx hes concerned. Cause zhre looks like she hasnt eaten s good meal in a while K.(bc she really Didnt .)i dont renemveee thst k whar the hell
this is a reocurrint htibf!!!!! I think he likes to check up on jj v v often. Ans she feels. Weird. like Why is she cared about . Idk I'm projecting a bit of me here it mkaes her feek Weird when someone cares about her bc it's just ..... Why are you worrying about Me ? There are people who go thru so much worse adb yet. Me?
idk. the pinung gets more. pining-y
and also rhe uh first kiss thing. Lien that other ppst. i didn tmKNOWWS What to Go with! idk they smooched and started for eealissiseses dating.
oh yea and also during the time shes known him shes been eating better + just feeling Better. un gnersl. Because uh she has a cute lil freak that loves her ^_^ ♥︎
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Multigender Survey Results Dec 2023: Anything else relevant
Participants were asked "Share anything else about your multigender identity that you find relevant" and had the option to respond with long answer text. Some notable responses include:
As a m+f bigender person who uses he/she pronouns, I sometimes feel like the "he" refers to my female side, and the "she" refers to my male side
I am no longer religious/Christian, but the expression “God is Change” resonates deeply with me and my approach to gender as experience. I accept that my gender (holistically) is an amalgamation, something that breathes new life into itself repeatedly and often unexpectedly, sustained by its own willingness to grow past its bounds and taste richness anew. Teaching is part of my work, and as such I consider myself an eternal student: gender is just one avenue for discovery and learning for me.
I feel so boring but it is what it is, name wise I use one (completely feminine) with group A and one (completely masculine) with group B and hope and pray that they never interact
I identified as a 'tomboy' (gender wise) as a child and transmasc as a teenager. As an adult part of my being multigender is honouring these past versions of myself and acknowledging that who I was is an important part of who I am today.
I like to describe my gender like this: imagine there’s a house on a street. the house represents being a boy/male, and being *in* the house means you’re binary male. The road represents a neutral, non-male/female gender. My gender is like the driveway — both part of the road *and* the house
i think this is relevant-ish, but the way i experience gender kind of feels like. there's a man and a woman in my head at all times, not in a system way so much as a (this is very obviously stupid but i can't find another comparison to articulate it) inside out way. they're both always there, and they're both separate, but at the same time, they come together to make the same person, me! nonbinary is a label i understand and identify with, mostly to simplify the matter for others, but in reality, it kind of feels like a... superbinary of sorts. i'm 100% a man, and 100% a woman, but because the binary only "allows" you to choose one, nonbinary is technically correct, isn't it?
I'm multigender in the "one gender that fits into several categories" way than being multigender in a "has multiple genders" way
My gender is the intersection of butch dyke and trans man. I'm questioning things right now, but I'm somewhere in that region, with a foot in both at once. I've always been drawn to butchness and sapphicism as well as transmasculinity. I think most of my journey to understand my gender has been a balancing act between identifying as enough of a guy to feel comfortable in my skin but non-binary enough to not have to abandon my identity with butchness. Recently I've adopted the label multigender, and it's helped a lot. I'm only even a little bit a girl if I can be a boy first and foremost, and I could be just a boy or just a dyke but I would have to kill part of myself to do so. I'm trying to find a way to exist in my gender without blood on my hands. I think I'm getting there. It's hard but I'm getting there.
It is complicated but I love it
Yay I love multi gender people we are so cool. <3
A number of participants also referenced being autistic and how that has influenced their multigender identity, so it is possible that autism may be included as a question on the next survey.
#'feminine name with group a and masculine name with group b and pray they never interact' person you are just like me fr#also shoutout to the inside out person i didn't think that was stupid at all. i liked it#survey results december 2023#multigender
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Being nonbinary and off multigender but like multigender ish (if you know what offgender is) is sick like I'm a nonbinary lesbian, I'm a lesboy, I'm a he/him lesbian, straight in like the %12 straight I guess, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a partner. A daughter, son, someone's child. A sister, brother, sibling. When I'm older I could be a wife, husband. Like I'm so sick dude.
#lgbtq community#lgbtqia#lgbt pride#mogai#lesboy#xenogender#nonbinary#nonbinary lesbian#nonbinary boy#he/him lesbian#any pronouns#hesbian#offgender
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as if gender is fluid with multiple genders but partially
And sorry for writing "genre" instead of "gender", the corrector is drunk
Thanks for the clarification! That makes more sense now.
Oh and don't worry about the typo lol; we understood what you meant. /gen
Demimultigenderfluid or demipolygenderfluid: being partially fluid with multiple genders
This term is a combination of multigender/polygender and demifluid. I think it's specifically like (cw: eyestrain) multigenderfluid + demifluid, but feel free to correct me.
(Multigender and polygender are synonyms, so they're being smashed together here.)
demimultigenderfluid 1 | demimultigenderfluid 2
demipolygenderfluid 1 | demipolygenderfluid 2
[alt text for top left: a rectangular flag with 11 horizontal stripes: the 5th and 7th stripes are split into 3 equal vertical stripes: pink (left), pastel yellow (middle), and pastel blue (right); the rest of the colors are, top to bottom: dark-ish grey, light grey, dark purplish-blue, vivid cerulean, burnt orange, vivid cerulean, dark purplish-blue, light grey, dark-ish grey. end alt text]
This flag is based on the blue and orange multigender flag and the non-gradient demifluid flag (the second flag in the link).
[alt text for top right: a rectangular flag with 11 horizontal stripes: the 5th and 7th stripes are a vertical gradient from pink (left) to pastel yellow (middle) to pastel blue (right); the rest of the colors are, top to bottom: dark-ish grey, light grey, dark purplish-blue, vivid cerulean, burnt orange, vivid cerulean, dark purplish-blue, light grey, dark-ish grey. end alt text]
This flag is based on the blue and orange multigender flag and the gradient demifluid flag (the first flag in the link).
[alt text for bottom left: a rectangular flag with 9 horizontal stripes: the 5th and 7th stripes are split into 3 equal vertical stripes: pink (left), light yellow (middle), and light-ish blue (right); the rest of the colors are, top to bottom: dark-ish grey, light grey, black, burnt orange, black, light grey, dark-ish grey. end alt text]
This flag is based on the polygender flag (first flag in the link) and the gradient demifluid flag.
[alt text for bottom right: a rectangular flag with 9 horizontal stripes: the 5th and 7th stripes are a vertical gradient from ppink (left), light yellow (middle), and light-ish blue (right); the rest of the colors are, top to bottom: dark-ish grey, light grey, black, burnt orange, black, light grey, dark-ish grey. end alt text]
This flag is based on the polygender flag and the gradient demifluid flag.
We're so sorry if we've misinterpreted! We're happy to retry if we did. /gen/
#demimultigenderfluid#demipolygenderfluid#demifluid#multigender#polygender#mogai#mogai flag#liom#liom flag#flag coining#pro endogenic#endogenic safe#coining post
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Monomultigender / Multimonogender
One who is both Monogender and Multigender, for any reason. A combination term/identity.
They may be Genderfluid/Genderflexible, Genderflux (with one of their genders fluctuating out, and then fluctuating back in again), Abrogender, or they may simply feel a connection to both labels. These are just some examples!
The flag was made by combining the Monogender flags (by thesagasaurus and Reddit user Agreeable-Finish-376) with the Multigender flag (creator unknown).
I made this because I couldn't find an exact term or flag for it (beyond one which was similar-ish but exclusive to Genderfluid individuals only), but if it exists and I missed it you're free to consider these alternate terms/an alternate flag.
This is very similar to Bitri/Tribigender and I'd like to make more "contradictory" gender math combinations like this! So if you have any you'd like to see my rqs are open!
Taglist - @revenant-coining, @radiomogai
#multigender#monogender#mogai coining#liom coining#mogai flags#liom flags#mogai flag#liom flag#mogai pride#liom pride#mogaisafe#liomsafe#multimonogender#monomultigender
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@radiomogai experiences event - day 1
"How do you organize or categorize your identity? If you don't, why don't you?"
i use a mixture of specific microlabels and umbrella terms to label my identity, and have been privately archiving genders [mostly] for myself since early 2022.
i dont exactly use every single label that could fit me, sadly, because theres too much. labels like "multigender" and "genderfluidflux" and "xenogender" are sometimes good enough..ish.
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