#monkey critical

[sketching-shark]

I saw your post about how you say that western interpretations of swk are just taking his goofy side and not much his violent side, but didn't you say before that western interpretations were just taking his violent side without understanding his character fully? and that he was more than just an evil/violent monkey? you said it with lmk for example, when they show in the past that wukong just wanted the powers for ambition and became ''evil'' and you said it wasn't right they interpret him like just a violent monkey

Im confused here

Complaining below, so if you (understandably lol) don't want to read all of that feel free to ignore.

My apologies for the confusion anon! And I will admit that I don't remember exactly what I wrote in this regard, though I do remember spending more time than I should have whining about both the goofiness and solely destructive aspects of SWK's character being given prominence in a lot of western interpretations lol. Maybe it was a combination of the two & me complaining of the prevalence of the "destructive meathead" interpretation of SWK? That IS a pretty common personality given to this monkey in western interpretations (see Netflix's The New Legends of Monkey & The Monkey King for example), and is a combination of goofiness & violence that shunts the "intelligent" part of "intelligent stone monkey" into the background.

THAT SAID, I am aware that I'm EXTREMELY picky in terms of Sun Wukong representations, and that it would be completely false to pretend there aren't a ton of Chinese presentations of the Monkey King that don't lean heavily towards a goofy and/or destructive characterization. Hell, I have heard and seen some pretty nasty examples of the Monkey King interpreted through the grimdark genre that ended with me hoping I manage to forget about them posthaste. And when it comes to children's media it makes sense that there would be a focus on the silly side of SWK's character. As I've said many a time before, it's not like you'd want to expose kids to a monkey running around smashing people's heads into meat patties.

I guess a lot of my personal frustrations come from the way there's a bit of a monoculturalization in the ways that western interpretations tend to lean heavily on the silly and violent sides of SWK's character while doing away with a lot of his intelligence, attempts to resolve matters through less violent means, and cutting out a lot of the actually pretty understandable reasons and contexts for why SWK does what he does in the classic. To give an example, one of the things that I find really interesting about SWK in JTTW is how he is undoubtedly a very violent monkey, BUT he's a very violent monkey in a world where many of the major power players, from the yaoguai kings to the Jade Emperor himself, are just as (if not more) violent as him. So you do for example have yaoguai like the Brotherhood of Lion Camel Ridge and the Demon Bull King being vicious man-eaters, with the Brotherhood in particular being described as living in a charnel house of human gore; the Tang Emperor, who Tang Sanzang is sworn brothers with, is literally described as a man who killed countless people to get his power, and we do actually see a lot of their ghosts his tour of Diyu; and the Jade Emperor, besides meeting out such vicious punishments as having Bai Longma hung in the sky and whipped 300 times before he was to be executed for accidentally burning some pearls, basically ordered the genocide of the Mt. Huaguoshan monkeys because Sun Wukong wouldn't surrender after stealing a bunch of immortality-granting treats that were grown/made, i.e. stuff that could all be replaced. So while SWK is definitely a vicious and frequently remorseless and ruthless monkey, this is taking place in a world where so is every other leader to a greater or lesser extent; Sun Wukong's just the most brutally honest about it. And the Monkey King seems fully aware of this and respond accordingly; his very first kill, in fact, was that of the Demon King of Confusion, who had kidnapped a lot of the children of the Mt. Huaguoshan troop. As is, you don't see SWK starting a lot of fights (he even often gives his opponents the chance to strike the first blow), but he sure is willing to escalate to get his way! Not to mention how it's ever-more painfully obvious that Tang Sanzang, who is always preaching nonviolence and compassion, would have been killed and eaten from the very start of his journey if he didn't have an ultraviolent monkey and multiple deities guarding his every step. And that dynamic does as such raise such disturbing and disturbingly relevant questions as: what chance does empathy and nonviolence have of surviving under these circumstances? What would it truly take to create a world were nonviolence and compassion are the rule of law? Can any ruler truly justify their violence based on higher purposes, or are we always dealing with a situation where might makes right? How do we persuade others, even those who can and have wield horrific violence, of the necessity of nonviolence? And does violence ultimately have a place in a world where acts of destruction take generations to heal, if they do heal at all?

IN CONCLUSION, I personally think that there's a lot of really interesting and important questions that the Monkey King and his story in Xiyouji raise, and while I am more understanding now as to why a lot of retellings don't even try to tackle half of them, I do find if frustrating that there seems like a real reluctance to even make the attempt. So you do end up with a lot of simplified versions of SWK, with a good chunk of them falling into the silly monkey, violent monkey, or silly violent monkey sides.

Like as far as lmk goes I'm kind of sad and pretty frustrated that even though they keep hinting at deeper or more understandable reasons for why their SWK is such a mess, Flying Bark now has a history of showing everyone and their mother yelling at SWK for being stupid and destructive and then going out of their way to show this monkey being stupid and destructive, and then basically waiting until the last possible second before suddenly pulling an increasingly unconvincing "maybe he doesn't suck THAT much" conclusion. Like...it's now been revealed that this dude, besides never even having a monkey yaoguai family he loved and was protecting, literally though it was a good idea to instigate a war against heaven with a grand total of 4 other guys even though that was clearly doomed to failure (vs. book SWK who was stuck waging a clearly defensive war against heaven with the entirely of his hundreds of allies and their troops), & even though it was definitely inadvertently he played a massive hand in almost exploding the entire universe with the Samadhi fire debacle. And that's to say nothing of how it increasingly seems like lego SWK is the worst Monkey King shifu out there. Could be that a lot of this is because the stakes are so much higher in Monkie Kid than they are in other stories where SWK has a tudi--as with Liu Chenxiang (who wanted the ability to fight his uncle Erlang Shen so he could free his mother Sansheng Mu) or Li Yunxiang (who was being targeted by powerful yaoguai and dragons for being Li Nezha's reincarnation & needed someone to protect him & help him control his abilities until he was ready to stand on his own), and certainly the unnamed Indian prince in the og classic (who was impressed with SWK & wanted to learn martial arts skills under him & who's life was never in danger)--but its genuinely disheartening how much Qi Xiaotian has now suffered specifically because of his shifu-tudi relationship to Sun Wukong. That's a reality that isn't even partially true in these other cases. It's the kind of thing that drives you to ask if the ever-more traumatized monkie boy would ultimately have had a happier life if the Monkey King never became part of it :(

Anyway, I hope that clears things up anon! If anything, just keep in mind that the Monkey King's character in the og classic is rich and varied enough to act as the baseline for a vast variety of interpretations and retellings, and that a lot of my complaining is about feeling that a particular retelling is going too far in its flanderization. People have come up with all sorts of characterizations for this monkey for literally centuries--and they range from a irresponsible and foolish demon to a honest and diligent holy being--but it does pay to remember what an important literary and religious figure he is, and what sorts of interesting and relevant possibilities he offers.

[shesnake]

“Monkey Man” was shot and completed in 2021, and Netflix soon after acquired the rights for around $30 million, but it’s been on the shelf for three years and they‘ve all of a sudden decided to get rid of it? What gives? It turns out, according to an in-the-know source, that it was the portrayal of a fictional right-wing Hindu Nationalist character in the film that worried Netflix about their future dealings in India. And even though they had paid more than twice the production cost, they decided to give the film back to the producers, which is what caused the long delay. Universal and Peele eventually took a particular liking to the film, so much so that they suggested possible editing changes and delayed the release until what they thought would be the right date. It’s as simple as that. In the end, it was all about politics and optics for the streaming giant, especially since India has become the current top growth market for Netflix. Co-Founder Reed Hastings has mentioned that a majority of the service's next 100 million subscribers would most likely come from India.

Universal/Jordan Peele's "suggested possible editing changes" in question:

[fluffyartbl0g]

JUST KEEP RUNNING AWAY FROM EVERY ENCOUNTER IM SURE IT WONT BE SUSPICIOUS!!!!!

Time Travel/Speedrun AU masterlist

[song-of-baldy-ron]

Manifesting, it would be the funniest outcome

[spacecomestoyou]

“Macaque never did anything wrong/didn’t mean to hurt anyone for real/never actually hurt anyone!”

The Six-Eared Macaque:

[acidicwerewolf]

Zolu is canon. Doesn't necessarily have to be romantic, but their lives are so intertwined you just can't separate them. Doesn't matter what you ship or what you don't, or what you think of the characters, you can't separate them without changing some of the things fundamental to their characters.

[oddthesungod]

sorry i had to do this

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

If You Are Disappointed With What A Shit Show Helluva Boss Has Become Here Are Top 5 Shows To Get On Instead

Lacakdaisy

2. Villainous/Villanos

3. Monkey Wrench

4. Metal Family

5. Murder Drones

[theoddest1]

Throwback to when Zeurel, creator of Monkey Wrench, made vague posts about Viv.

This was one of the last responses to her that I found long ago.

[Nice irony, Viv. Almost understood why people don'ttrust anything coming out of your mouth. The only thing wrong is that, in this case, you're FULLY aware of your actions and refuse to shine the light on yourself.]

Here's Zeurel in recent times regarding anything tied to Viv

Here is Zeurel during Viv being exposed for being buddy buddy with Raph, one of her animators/story board artists who has a rape fetish

[alliekitaguchi]

I just know in my heart that when laura told travis she was gonna be portraying the raven queen, he grabbed her by the shoulders and shook her like a maraca and yelled TELL ME EVERYTHING

[elliesgaymachete]

i am personally quite conflicted about whatever is happening with this campaign and bells hells, but i wanted to say something about giving the gods a choice: if someone came to your house with a shotgun pointed at you and told you that you can either leave or stay but become a monkey, would you actually consider that a free choice? whith a shotgun pointed at you?

Let me take your analogy and help you understand

Imagine there’s a house you grew up in. It’s the only home you’ve ever known, you’ve always lived there, you know no other home and can’t imagine living anywhere else. Then some entity that’s stronger than you and smarter than you and bigger than you and more powerful than you comes along and says, “this is my house now”. You couldn’t fight them even if you wanted to because they’re so unbelievably powerful so you say sure and let them take over your house.

For the most part it’s fine, fairly normal, but every so often, they put in a display of power like emptying out the fridge so no one can eat, or turning off the electricity, or kicking someone out of the house, or even killing someone. They just want to make sure you don’t get too comfortable and know who’s in charge here. They see you as so much lesser, but it’s such a kind mercy that they let you stay here with them.

They don’t talk to you anymore, but they talk to other people, whisper in their ears, help out whenever it benefits them. These people listen to whatever they say and have become the security of the house. Sometimes they punish you for doing something wrong or kick you out of your bedroom so they can turn it into their office. So you go share a room with someone else or sleep on the couch.

Whenever they get mad you’re afraid you might freeze or go hungry or die in your own fucking house. Maybe next time they’ll get so angry they just set the whole place on fire and watch while you burn and then collect the insurance payout. You and everyone else has long since accepted this as the status quo and it feels like nothing can be done. But, you’re still just trying to live in your house

If you finally found something you could use to fight this guy, would you use it? But to offer them a choice of “get out of my house or give up your power and join me down here and we can all live at the same level”? That’s a big fucking mercy in my opinion

Clearly this is an imperfect metaphor, as you’ve probably realized at this point. The situation is so much more nuanced than that. And i think that, given everything Bells Hells knows and has gone through, they found a fantastic solution to this divisive problem

[sketching-shark]

Unfortunately for plot-related convenience MK has been retconned into a fake fan (;_;)

I'm sorry but lmk not being clear on what MK knows about monkey king is sooo frustrating. He's some how his biggest fan who knows so much until the story requires him to have never known anything and it's like... why did you set him up as a monkey king fan it then just decide "actually he doesn't know shit" bro grew up to adulthood hearing stories and somehow knows Jack shit about the guy he supposedly fanboys over.

[highlysusceptibletodisaster]

luffy (and in addition his crew) is an anarchist in the sense that i want everyone to be as free as they want

kidd and his crew are anarchists in the way that the government turned its back on my people and therefore it should not exist

law is an anarchist bc he hates the celestial dragons

[mostredactedbracket]

BIGGEST RISK TO NATIONAL SECURITY BRACKET FINAL ROUND

Ed Elric- child soldier uncovers national conspiracy and aids rebellion/government takeover

Jester Lavorre- involved in several wars on the side of herself and her friends, started a cult, tricked fairytale tricksters

Monkey D Luffy- pirate captain tries to find world government's biggest secret and exposes/stops all their bullshit along the way

[shoutydwarf]

Veilguard ending spoilers

It's so hard for me to talk about how I feel about Solas because on one hand, there's great potential in his arc, but on the other, bioware has completely butchered that in such a profound way that I don't care to look past the hiccups to enjoy him.

First, he's race locked. This really doesn't help to contest the idea that he's a supremacist. If it was truly a time crunch issue where they added it so late they couldn't add the other races, but knew at the time what Solas was and what he meant to the plot - why, on gods green fucking earth, was it included at all? Because they spend the whole next game trying really hard to convince you he's not just an ages old racist stuck in his ways, only to not just have race locked him but to hide his most egregious act, of which he committed against a certain race he's known to be racist towards.

You'll be hard pressed to catch a certain type of solavellan, which encompasses the majority of them, even saying the word titan. The part that baffles me is you'll also be hard pressed to hear SOLAS HIMSELF saying it in game. If I'm recalling correctly, I only heard him say it one singular time outside of the mural memories. At the very end of the game.

There is zero acknowledgement on his part of what he did, at least not in any meaningful way. The orb that the evanuris made their foci out of that Solas says is an elven artifact? Titan heart. The dagger he made? Titan blood. The empire of Arlathan? Founded on the blood and genocide of titans. And I mean that in the most literal sense that I can. All of their godly powers that they used to create their empire was pulled from the well of titan souls they locked within the Golden City.

It's fucking poetic at this point. They silenced the titans so good and well that it seems not even Solas remembers what his glorious kingdom of old cost. It's even funnier if you stand in front of him as a Cadash or a dwarf!Rook.

This man they're trying SO HARD to beat into you around every corner that he's so so sad, he's so so full of regret and sorrow, he's so depressed and anguished over his deeds, not once acknowledges in a way that matters that what he and the evanuris did to the titans was wrong. And if he doesn't feel remorse over that in any way that's loud enough for him to talk about it as he does the veil, how the fuck am I supposed to believe he's sorry for all the other things?

Weekes has admitted to literally, somehow, casually forgetting dwarves don't dream when they were writing the scene of the Haven dream with Solas and the Inquisitor. Add this to how many lines dwarf!rook has of comparing things to dreams, casting necromancy spells etc and it becomes pretty clear that they never intended to afford this genocided race lore reveal the gravity it needed. They just needed it as a minor plot device in a greater elven narrative that completely, utterly, 100% unravels the message they're desperate to send with Solas. They really said to solavellans don't worry, kittens, he committed a really heinous, unforgivable act that he's not taking any strides to repair but we're not going to have him talk about it at all so you can continue ignoring it and scrolling tiktok during Harding's questline. And yall said okay ❤️ yay ❤️.

And no, you can't argue that his goal was always to tear down the Veil to restore immortality/magic to the elves AND wake up the titans. Because those are two separate things, and one of those things he never once said he was doing. He doesn't need the titans awake to take down the Veil and restore Arlathan. In fact, he very much needs them to stay tranquil, otherwise he'd finally get the ass whooping he fucking deserves when my dwarves not only attack his unguarded kneecaps with hammers but start chucking rocks at him and booing loudly.

This is why he's irredeemable for me. This is why I wanted an ending where I can kill him, not because I hate him as a concept or even as a character, but because his writing is such a fucking joke. And putting him into a sock and banging him against the counter is the only valid response to such a cosmic fumble because it's the only option that matches its freak in being so ridiculous. It's bad writing, it's weak, cheap, lazy, and directly crumbles the entire foundation.

While the ending of having him spend eternity soothing the dreams of the titans is excellent in form, because although it doesn't show him taking accountability it does show him taking steps to repair the damage he did to them, I don't ever get to establish, as a dwarf Rook or even just as a player, that THAT is why I want him to do this. Nobody says, "Make this right by earning the forgiveness of your first victim." Instead, for Solas, it's like, "well, since I have to go there anyway, I might as well. I guess. Whatever."

All this while they're in that AMA saying shit like "two groups are more affected than any other by the evanuris - the elves and (wait for it) Tevinter."

A fucking joke, I tell you.

[septembermonologues]

ashley constantly reminds us that Mister is a chonkers but its still like. haunting. to see him right next to orym.