#ml Kuro Neko

[thimbleb3rries]

This show gives me so much to think about omggggg

Kuro Neko....... 😃cat walker.....

I drew him with his hair loose for two of the doodles because it gave me trouble when it was tied back shhhhh

Also??? The weird little stray pieces of hair that just kinda float around where his hair parts??? I had to simplify them, I couldn't figure them out 😭

[howtotrainyouragents]

By the way, Kuro Neko makes the most sense when you realize it’s about how Ladybug is in love with Chat Noir

[thecoolcatstuff]

Here I am a year and half later and Im still salty about how Kuro Neko couldve easily been the best Chat Noir-driven episode ever made but it was ruined because the narrative kept pushing how the whole issue was about Chat Noir's love for ladybug when it should have been about him being prived of sensitive information and how Chat Noir, as a hero, needed that sensitive information for making independent calls and actually helping save the world beyond being the meat shield and pep talk guy.

Im still mad how Adrien depression was treated as him being weak and overly sensitive.

Im still mad about how this was all solved by Adrien having to suck this up and "get a grip".

Im still mad how the messed up ramifications of having LB swooning about the gabe-approved corporate-molded Adrien were simply ignored and never brought up again.

Im still mad how that episode didnt change Ladybug nor Chat noir, nor their dynamic in any substantial way even though it should have.

Im still mad how Kuro Neko was the breaking point for me, and when I realized the writers had absolutely no idea what they were doing even with so much potential in hands.

[miraculousfanworks]

Fanfiction Prompt

Kuro Neko au where, when trying to trick Marinette into letting him take the ring back to Adrien under a new guise, Plagg accidentally lets slip some of how his holder is actually feeling. Marinette bribes the real story out of the kwami and is horrified by her partner's self-worth issues, so she decides on a better plan: they'll become Lady Noir and Mister Bug again for a while. Hopefully intrusive thoughts about not being needed will be easier to counter when the Ladybug is absolutely pivotal to every battle, and Tikki's more supportive style might be good for him to get a taste of until the kids can repair their partnership. But. Tikki: If you ever even think of leaving my Miraculous on a random rooftop instead of just telling your partner how you feel, you will find out why Plagg is afraid of me and not the other way around. (Plagg has mixed feelings about how things turned out. On the one hand Marinette spoils him with love, attention, and cheesy pastries, she's a lot more chaotic than Adrien, and she's fun to tease. He also still gets to spy on his kid at school, and he can see the progress Adrien is making. On the other hand Marinette has much higher expectations for him than Adrien did... and all the other kwamis clamoring around is both a blessing and a curse.)

Prompt by techRomancer

[adrinoir]

Headcanon: Adrien Agreste is Trans? (Part 6)

First things first: Happy pride month to everyone in the community!

If you’ve followed my blog for a while or fallen down the rabbit hole of this headcanon at some point, you’ll know I’ve supported it for a long time. Sooo, welcome to part 6 of the Adrien being trans headcanon.

Here are the other parts of this headcanon if you’d like to read those: part 1 | part 2 | part 3 | part 4 | part 5

Usual disclaimer: this is just for fun! Obviously cis boys can have these same qualities and traits. Don’t take it too seriously. These are all just things I’ve noticed. Also, I use the term "sentibeings" vs "sentimonsters" because I personally feel the canon term has a negative, dehumanizing connotation - please keep that in mind, too!

Sentibeings develop their own lives & identities

I feel like this shouldn't have to be said, but in case anyone feels Adrien being a senti-human debunks the hc, I'm writing this as an important reminder. Although they were developed through a miraculous power, Adrien, Felix, and Kagami are very much still human. Felix has made it clear that people of his kind are dehumanized, seen as "monsters," and taken advantage of which is something that upsets him greatly, and rightfully so.

This in itself is sadly something a lot of trans people can relate to. We're often dehumanized for not being "normal" and having unique/different identities in comparison to cis people who identify with their assigned birth gender.

But, I do want to focus more on the fact that sentibeings who were developed into humans are humans, meaning they develop and function the same way all humans do because this is important when talking about this hc. Adrien can still very much be trans considering he's a human with his own life and identity.

Felix had the dramatic presentation of him and Adrien's life story. Yes, he addressed Adrien being a boy the whole time, but also consider that he's going to respect his cousin's identity if he is trans. If this headcanon was in fact canon, Adrien would very much be closeted, and it isn't up to Felix to reveal his identity to others. Saying Adrien was born and raised a girl would not have added anything to the backstory, anyhow.

Gabriel could be controlling for other reasons, too

As we are all aware, Gabriel is a very controlling parent. We're directly shown that he's this way because Adrien is a sentibeing who he can control through his ring, and he's an evil, narcissistic person who doesn't care about others, including his own son. However, it is very much possible that there are other underlying reasons why he's as controlling as he is, let alone towards his own son. Like, why would he not love his own son?

There could obviously be hundreds of underlying reasons why Gabriel is so careless and controlling, but one of them could be that he may not love his son since he's trans. I briefly mentioned in part 3 of the hc that Gabriel could be unaccepting of Adrien being trans, so I'm going to build off of that.

Gabriel may not have always been quite as controlling and neglectful. Maybe before Adrien transitioned, he was a gentler, more caring father. However, we're shown in Wishmaker (yes, I know I always reference this episode lol) from Adrien's perspective, that his parents have always had certain expectations of him, most of which he's followed. So, if Adrien went against their expectations and transitioned to be their son instead of their daughter, that could've easily set Gabriel off (maybe even Emilee too, for all we know).

Why does Adrien tolerate the way Gabriel treats him?

To build further off of my last section, Adrien is aware of his father's terrible behavior and accepts it for what it is throughout a good portion of the series. But, why does he tolerate and accept it? There could be many reasons why, but I'm going to focus on two particular possibilities.

First of all, I also mentioned in part 3 that Gabriel seems like the type who'd gaslight Adrien, saying things like, “you have it so good here! I didn’t kick you out and I use your right name and pronouns!" If he is like that, that could be what makes Adrien so tolerable of his controlling behavior. He may allow this neglect and control because his father is "accepting" of his identity, enough to use the right name and pronouns.

OR, maybe Adrien thinks his behavior is acceptable due to internalized transphobia. Internalized transphobia is sadly a very common thing trans people experience. If this is something he feels, he may think it's right of his father to be unaccepting because "trans people (like me) are not worthy of others' acceptance."

Adrien's vision of the ideal man

This is another thing I've talked a bit about, but I think it's important to talk about in depth.

We see Adrien in many different identities. The ones I'm going to focus on in particular are himself, Cat Noir, and Cat Walker.

Adrien seems to have this idealistic vision in his mind of what an ideal man is supposed to be like. When he plays his role as Cat Noir, he's very over-the-top: flirtatious, strong, protective, destructive. It doesn't mirror how he acts normally, which as we see is the version of him that conforms to most of his parents' expectations. And, when he plays the role of Cat Walker -since he got the sense that Cat Noir was neither an ideal man nor heroic partner for Ladybug- he tones a lot of that down and acts the way he feels she'd like him best for, very laidback, a bit seductive, and helpful, following her ideas.

Why does he have these odd, idealistic versions of what a man should be and tosses his identity around so much? Let me explain.

Adrien hasn't had a good father figure in his life. So he most likely has had to develop this idealistic version of what a man is and follow that, switching it when he has the ability to live his second life as a hero without needing to conform to his father's standards. Adrien wants to be a man but he has no one to follow for that, especially if one of the main reasons for his father's neglect is due to unacceptance of him being trans, Gabriel will hold back as much as possible on being a good father figure and being a positive influence in his growth into manhood.

[wackus-bonkus-maximus]

Same anon who just asked about why you placed Adrien as a 7 instead of a 2, only to look deeper in the reblogs of your ML enneagram post and see you already answered it haha!

In friendly defense of 2!Adrien, I’d argue that his reactions to being stressed coming off as more of a 7 rather than a 2 is actually a perfect reflection of the effects of his abuse; it’s fear that drives his non-confrontation tendencies rather his own nature. I think Risk highlighted that a bit in revealing how Adrien does desire confrontation, even if he doesn’t act on it.

(I have always found it interesting to consider the role that trauma/neurodivergency plays in shaping a character’s personality, since it’s one of the flaws I feel most personality assessments can’t really account for.)

I also think Chat’s arguments with LB were more like to be confrontational than avoidant (thinking of the times he’s called her out and his romantic pursuit being the primary indicators), up until she became the Guardian. So then with S4, I’d consider it to be a gradual relationship shift that leads to Chat no longer feeling safe and secure enough in his position to confront her the way he once did, which is why he only tries a bit in Kuro Neko before running, and then doesn’t try at all in Strikeback.

I hope this doesn’t come off as too preachy or anything, just wanted to share my 2¢! Cause either way you slice it, your Adrien has always been brilliantly written and incredibly in-character to me, so you’ve clearly got a rock solid understanding of his character. ❤️

hello november anon and sorry for the delay! thank you so much for the ask and also for going back and looking through my prev posts. you know my teacher heart loves it when you do the readings! 😌 also you're definitely not the only one who believes adrien is a 2 rather than a 7! and while i know there are good arguments for both sides, i'll explain in depth my position on adrien's personality.

part 1 of the ask:

so here are the reasons i think adrien IS an enneagram type 7

adrien's motivation seems like that of a 7 to me: he wants to experience everything and be satisfied in every way he can. if he had a disney princess "i want" song, it would be "i want to go to school, i want to make friends, i want adventure in the great wide somewhere., i want to have fun."

the literal first shot of him in the show (if we use origins as a starting point) is adrien running away. nathalie asks him to please reconsider, he knows what his father wants, and adrien says, "but this is what i want to do." according to the enneagram institute, "sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others." going to school and having a new experience with new people is what's going to enhance adrien's enjoyment of life - not being the center of his family unit or the apple of his father's eye.

a 2's motivation would be to be as loved as possible and to make themselves neeed by those they most care about. while adrien definitely shows a desire to be loved and needed, especially by ladybug, i think his primary desire is for experience, and it's this from which all his actions- not just characteristics - are based. take for example his reaction to getting his miraculous vs marinette's (also in origins):

adrien is excited and intrigued and ready to go, as a 7 would be when offered a new experience - and a new way to satisfy their desire to try everything. marinette, as a 1, is quite the opposite: she is being put in a situation where she must do something right or fail, and therefore is stressed tf out. while marinette's motivation to be good/perfect fuels her anxious reaction, adrien's motivation to experience everything and be satisfied fuels his thrilled and slightly reckless reaction. that's why he charges out into battle without listening to all the instructions; his motivation was to escape the restraints of his life and try something new.

in growth, enneagram 7's take on the positive traits of 5's. in stress, they take on the negative traits of 1's. i have seen adrien exhibit these behaviors throughout the show on many occasions!

according to the enneagram institute, "Sevens have fear about their inner world. There are feelings of pain, loss, deprivation, and general anxiety that Sevens would like to stay clear of as much as possible. To cope with these feelings, Sevens keep their minds occupied with exciting possibilities and options— as long as they have something stimulating to anticipate, Sevens feel that they can distract themselves from their fears." therefore, while one can argue that adrien's wealth of knowledge and fun facts is a result of everything gabriel has forced him to learn (mandarin, piano, fencing, medieval horse colors), we can assume he at least was interested in it - and that seeking new knowledge like a 5 kept him from lingering in his sadness.

"i'll help you learn mandarin marinette" "i'll show you how to fence marinette" "most people think henry iv's white horse was white my lady" "do you need subtitles my lady i speak several languages"

now as to how adrien moves to the low parts of type 1 during the show: i think the main examples of this are the instances he adopts rigid, critical, and judgemental characteristics, which is potentially unpleasant for anyone who has to be around him.

first up, adrien's akumatized forms: chat blanc, ephemeral, celesticat

i bring up the akumas because, though adrien isn't in his right mind (by hawkmoth's akumas), they are examples of adrien being in extreme stress.

as chat blanc, adrien wants to either right the world or destroy it for being wrong - the critical supreme judgement an unhealthy 1 is capable of. he lashes out when contradicted, and is quite ruthless even to marinette, who he loves, in the name of executing judgement.

as ephemeral, adrien seeks to control time. (however, this is probably the weakest example because adrien was being amok-controlled in this instance and was acting on shadow moth's will, not his own.)

i include celesticat because while this is an example of a "good" akumatization, adrien was still under so much stress that an akumatization was able to take place. yet even while being in "good" stress, adrien still shows characteristics of 1: perfectionism, righteousness, taking control of the situation. he literally turns into a pure white angelic being, an embodiment of perfection. it's what he believes he has to do in order to salvage the situation. it's one of the more healthier moves from 7 to 1 i have seen depicted in media and is entirely plausible concept under the enneagram's theory! this just goes to show the depth and richness of his character.

next, we will discuss adrien's various alter egos:

cat walker

i've said it before and i'll say it again; cat walker is another move from 7 -> 1.

as chat noir, adrien is at the height of his 7-ness. he enjoys the freedom that his miraculous powers and secret identity gives him, and uses it as a means of escape from the regular constraints of his life and obligations. then in kuro neko when ladybug slights him, she denies him the fulfilment and satisfaction in reaching his full potential as chat noir (e.g., being of equal importance on the team as her) that he should be allowed. of course he becomes hurt and angry! she's stepping on his core desire in life.

according to enneagram coach dr. tom lahue (my favorite enneagram guy ((also a 7)), "type 7's typically deal with anger by trying to avoid it or deflect it. that really is the anger type of a 7 - deflective. deflecting things away." that's what i believe cat walker is: a stress reaction, a deflection of his anger with ladybug. he deflects his painful emotions into something he thinks is positive; a new start.

adrien is usually so joyful and optimistic, but this was a huge blow for him. dr. tom says the best way for a 7 to handle this anger is to be "real and genuine" when coming to terms with it, what does adrien do instead? he turns to a new alter ego. he chases the experience of fulfillment, only he does so by adopting a persona who is serious and perfectionist. obviously this was neither what adrien or ladybug needed, and that is because cat walker is a stress reaction who adrien cannot sustain without continued levels of unhealthy self-denial. this is the hardest he has gone to 1 in the show and what it took to snap him out of it was a level of reflection, analysis, and objectivity (that this was an unhealthy behavior) indicative of a type 5 - and which shows his progression to growth.

2. aspik

one can argue that aspik is more proof of adrien being a 2 than a 7 actually, as his motivations for becoming aspik were to woo ladybug. however, the stress response of a type 2 is to move to the negative qualities of type 8, which is to lash out at those who they believe have taken them for granted.

according to the enneagram institute,

"Average to unhealthy Twos seek validation of their worth by obeying their superego’s demands to sacrifice themselves for others. They believe they must always put others first and be loving and unselfish if they want to get love. The problem is that “putting others first” makes Twos secretly angry and resentful, feelings they work hard to repress or deny. Nevertheless, they eventually erupt in various ways, disrupting Twos’ relationships and revealing the inauthenticity of many of the average to unhealthy Two’s claims about themselves and the depth of their “love.”

as aspik, adrien was never resentful of ladybug for taking him for granted or making him feel rejected. as aspik, his goal was never to make himself needed by her. as aspik, he maintained some extreme levels of optimism that ignored the rational conclusion that he should give up for several thousand time loops. as aspik, he was able to let go and displace his hopes in himself to someone else - and run off to his responsibility as chat noir with high spirits (though i'm sure the ladrien kiss helped)

3. griffe noire

this has got to be the most stressful stress reaction i've seen on adrien. and you might say "but wackus he looks nothing like a type 1" and i say "JUST HOLD ON

going back to dr. tom's analysis on type 7's in anger, he says, "7's typically express their anger indirectly, e.g., through sarcasm, like 5's - like 6's sometimes... but they quickly try to move on and reframe into a more positive way." griffe noire, rather than telling jokes and puns to lighten the mood, mocks and ridicules poor toxinelle who has not convinced me she doesn't have a crush on him. 1's actually do the same thing when they are unhealthy; they criticize and blame and nag others for not being up to par, and by directing his anger at his situation onto toxinelle, griffe noire is doing the same.

dr tom goes on to say, "in some cases [7's] might take impulsive actions to try to free themselves from this feeling of being trapped... engaging in frenetic escapism in behaviors or addictions or substances to try to distance themselves from those who are frustrated with them... or their own anger/pain in life." we have seen griffe noire engage in multiple frenetic behaviors while running amok (haha), all of which are clearly attempts to redirect his pain and anger/ keep it from consuming him. for example, griffe noire takes chat noir's cataclysm to the chest as though it's a game. for another, he openly threatens to destroy the entire world with his super cataclysm. and of course, he is constantly abusing his miraculous by over-exerting his powers in a way only adults should. yet all of these destructive behaviors are still adrien's way of escaping his normal life, and his everyday pain. it's almost like his self-destruction is his addiction.

and yet by the end, it took the introspection of type 5 for griffe noire to realize that his behavior was unhealthy. he observed, he listened, he showed an inquisitiveness that brought him back from the brink. and he also upgraded his outfit so if that isn't a type 7 path to growth i don't know what is!

now i know i won't have convinced everybody, so i just want to drop this section from the enneagram institute's text on misidentifying 2's and 7's:

Although both types are gregarious and enjoy being with people, their interpersonal styles are noticeably different. The Two... would like to be the heart and soul of a family or community, the best friend or confidant everyone comes to for attention, advice, and approval. Twos want to be significant to others and on intimate terms with them, although sometimes they go too far, meddling too much and being too solicitous to make sure they are needed.

adrien is not focused on being needed by anybody, not even ladybug (although due to his romantic interest in her, i can understand why people think so). being the heart and soul of the team is not what motivates him; primarily, i think he just likes having all the experiences he wouldn't otherwise get to have without being chat noir.

By contrast... Sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others.... Sevens may thus exhibit a certain generosity, although their motives may well have less to do with helping needier friends than with making sure that they themselves have a good time by having others around.

this isn't to say that adrien is just focused on having a "good time." i see that his enjoyment is amplified when he is surrounded by people he loves and cares for. he is motivated to have good experiences, and be fulfilled by trying everything, and becoming close to people and forming loving relationships is just a happy byproduct of that.

now there ARE several caveats to my analysis which provide potential arguments against typing adrien as a 7 - and which i can touch on briefly before i close:

adrien's abuse: i understand that trauma and anxiety can affect personality deeply. i'm not qualified to speak on this, or on how it should or shouldn't affect any personality type. i can only say that i think adrien has acted pretty consistently under stress as far as the show depicts

inconsistent characterization: i think we can all agree that ml won't be winning any awards for its consistency in characterization. which i know sounds contradictory to what i just said about how it depicts adrien under stress, but i think there IS a lot of discrepancy in this show and over the course of 9 years with different teams of writers all trying to execute one person's vision, inconsistencies are bound to happen.

thank you again for the ask, anon, and thank YOU if you have read all the way through! tell me your thoughts, if you make it down here - whether you agree/disagree or are just nodding along and letting me indulge in my enneagram brainrot! this is an entirely in-good-faith interpretation of mine, and i'd love to see other opinions if you have them!

[bittersweetresilience]

my secret server gift exchange for @sleepysebris: a kuro neko amv!! my ladynoir one was actually also inspired by me thinking of what to edit for you, but i was so excited about how it turned out i wanted to post it straightaway. this one is a bit simpler but i hope you enjoy 🥰

[asukiess]

i'm gonna hc that these are questions she always wanted to ask chat

[iwasbored777]

Pls don't take this the wrong way I'm not one of the "Adrien is a sexual harasser" salters nor Adrien salter in the first place (you know me), but I think his experience with Ladybug was beneficial to his patience with Marinette because in some episodes like Glaciator 2 and such Ladybug was angry with him asking her to kiss him and later when he saw that it doesn't work he decided to change his method and be more of gentleman.

And in Kuro Neko he saw how much Ladybug likes respectful guys and him realizing that she cares about Chat Noir wasn't the only thing he learned here.

Ironically, the two episodes that are widely hated were crucial for his character development and not just for his identity crisis but for his later relationship too (which is something I don't see mentioned that much, everyone's only talking about the identity part). And now when he is going out with Marinette, who needs time and time before she feels comfortable with him, he knew what to do and how to behave around her because he learned.

In Glaciator 2 he could notice that the pressure of public is what angered Ladybug too and now with Marinette he knows that this is most definitely what's upsetting her. And he was right, they were happier alone than with everyone watching (who WOULD be happy with everyone watching?).

And it also helped Marinette fall for Chat Noir too, remember when she confirmed why she didn't want to give him a chance earlier.

(Pls don't hate her either for saying this, she was trying real hard to be good enough for Adrien too, they both did but this a story for another time)

Not that Adrien's behaviour was extremely disrespectful earlier but it did anger a person he tried to impress and it took him time but he learned how to improve himself. He wasn't problematic, I don't mean that, but he learned how to be more respectful and when it comes to love you need to respect your crush's boundaries and give them space especially if they request for it. Marinette has shown to love gentlemen since forever. She's a hopeless romantic. And Adrien really worked hard to make himself as good for her as he could. That's truly beautiful.

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

Do we think that the Ladrien dynamic in season 6 is going to be similar to that of Ladywalker?

Think of it like this:

Ladybug is still very much in love with Adrien, yet has to be covert about her feelings for him to protect her identity.

Adrien, on the other hand, is now in a very happy, committed relationship and therefore doesn't feel the need to flirt with, or become moony-eyed over Ladybug.

Ladybug can't seem to stop blushing and getting distracted by her boyfriend, whom she is currently saving and therefore can't have feelings for him right now. Adrien, on the other hand, who is very confused by her strange behavior, is behaving in the politely stoic way he uses interact with people that he isn't so close to.

However, this is merely an act, Adrien is close to Ladybug and knows her incredibly well and closely. In interactions, he is constantly having to keep himself in check and make sure he doesn't reveal that he knows too much, that he's aware of too much. He cares about her, but he has to make it seem like its a detached care. He has to treat her like a hero of Paris and not like one of his closest friends and partner.

The tension of identities and secrets gets so thick, that it begins an unraveling in their interactions that can only be resolved either with an identity reveal, or, the same way that Ladywalker ended, with them parting ways indefinitely.

[wehadabondingmoment]

Catwalker and Velvet Paw (French Dub) were both excellent name choices for Kuro Neko because they have simultaneously the same and the exact opposite meaning.

In this (totally over-analyzed) essay I will-

[gameguy20100]

Do you think Adrien was justified for the events in Kuro Neko

Yes, yes I do.

Depression and abandonment issues are really hard to deal with.

How would you feel if every part of your life was micromanaged to absurdity. You couldn't even tie your shoes without your father's permission.

But you have an outlet, a friend who you love, respect, and would do anything for. You help people and feel like you're making a difference.

But they not only call on you less. They replace you with a bunch of other people. And even say, despite the fact you've been by their side on this since day one, they regard you as "Just like the others."

Depression twisted Ladybugs words in his mind. What he heard was " He's replaceable. He's not special at all."

It's a massive kick to the ego to realise you mean less to a person than you thought. In Adrien’s case, the only person he felt he could be himself around.

So yes. Yes, his feelings were justified

[celestiall0tus]

Kuro Neko Half Notes - All That Remained

I can't do it! I fucking hate this episode! The writing is so fucking garbage! I know fucking 12 year-olds smarter than these 14-15 year olds.

Prepare for the utmost salt since, what was it? Migration! That one!

I will preface this saying that yes, I do know the main conflict of season 4. Lady is Guardian and Chat is getting shafted. But holy fuck is it so fucking bad.

First off, the role of Guardian should never have fallen on Ladybug. Master Fu was an irresponsible, horrible mother fucking adult for pulling that stunt. Marinette is still a fucking child and shouldn't have all that responsibility thrust on her shoulders. I don't care how special a ladybug she is, absolutely awful. Shame. Shame on all y'all!

Adrien, buddy, read the room!! And again, another instance where I can see the trauma peeking through but it still doesn't feel right. I can give it to him that his first thought would be to overreact, thinking he wasn't needed and have that absolutely crush him. That I get, but not that reaction. For the abuse he suffers as per the writers of the show, you'd expect a more taken aback, heartbroken response. Him not letting her see him break down, renouncing his kwami without a hint of what he was doing, and running off. With his reaction in the episode, I was honestly waiting for him to throw the ring in a dumpster. Enjoy dumpster diving, m'lady.

Then there is the conflict of Plagg not knowing how to fucking just say things plainly to a fucking child. And darling Marinette just assuming that Chat being in love with her was the entire problem. That was part of the problem, but again, a double edged sword. On one hand, Marinette, for all her "maturity" should have had some inkling to Chat as a partner and friend, but feels like she disregarded him. Then ol Chat. We need to working on timing, response, and a level of emotional maturity that is sorely lacking. Again, he feels more like an entitled little bitch ass white boy than an abuse victim. Maybe Daddy dearest doesn't love or spend enough time with him, but not how Gabriel is supposedly treating him.

Oh! And let's not forget the absolute best part of the damn episode. Seeing that Ladybug's "ideal man" is just Adrien. Ultimately proving at this point that she really doesn't love Chat Noir or his antics and is utterly obsessed with Adrien that you're only perfect if you are him. Fuck you, Astruc. You hear me? Fuck you.

I hate Kuro Neko. I fucking hate it so fucking much.

[motherofplatypus]

The best part of the London Special was when Ladybug said "Its London time!" and spent 99% of the special being anywhere but London.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Keep hearing people say maribug keep asking adricat if he's ok and he keep saying he's ok instead of telling her his problem but I don't remember it happened more than once in s4 in Rockettear but even then the circumstances of that episode did warrant the "nothing" answer he gave her unless he want to tell her that "nino tell me you let nino and alya know each other identity" which will reveal adricat identity. So when else did she ask? about the thing in hack-san, I think another credit goes to alya since she's the one who bring the topic to maribug who seems to be blissfully unaware that her leaving without telling adeicat that she send subtitute would be a problem.

I didn't get into this side of things in my other post because it was long and I wanted to focus on why Chat Noir's behavior was so frustrating, but this ask brings up the other big reason why the season four conflict was such a frustrating and terribly written plot line. Specifically, the part of your ask where you point out that Maribug seems blissfully unaware that her actions are having a negative impact on Chat Noir until someone points it out to her.

Yes, she is presented as blissfully unaware of this and every other interpersonal conflict we're given in season four. Your ask treats this as a failing on Maribug's part as if she should have obviously realized that she was in the wrong, but that's the whole problem. Telling kids - telling anyone really - that they should just magically know what others need is a frankly terrible life lesson as that's just not how the world works. You cannot just assume that everyone will have the same view of the world as you do and instantly pick up on the same issues as you do. That is the path to easily avoidable frustration and conflict. It also teaches people to assume that their view of the world is inherently correct when that is rarely the case. We often don't know the whole story and the other person's point of view may end up being equally or even more valid. This issue is extremely present in season four as Marinette has legitimate reasons to behave the way she does, which I'll get into in a bit.

If Marinette were written as feeling guilty about how she was treating Chat Noir, then this would be a different story. She'd be way more in the wrong and would shoulder a much greater portion of the blame. But as is? She has no idea that she's doing anything wrong. And until someone takes the time to tell her that her actions are causing harm, she is going to continue causing harm because she has no idea that she's causing harm.

In fact, I'd argue that the Alya thing in Hack San is a point in Maribug's favor. Throughout the episode, we see Marinette sending Alya messages on ways to be a good partner to Chat Noir, proving that she does in fact care about him. And then, as soon as Alya says, "You need to talk to Chat Noir," what does Maribug do?

She goes and talks to Chat Noir, giving him a pretty good apology for the problem she now knows she caused. Because, shockingly, Maribug doesn't actually want to hurt her partner. She also clearly cares about his feelings, making me want to take the season four conflict and tear it into itty bitty pieces because what is the conflict even supposed to be when you write shit like this?

I want to briefly step away from Miraculous and talk about this issue in a broader context via this YouTube short:

This short is from a Vietnamese woman who moved to Germany. Her YouTube channel is about her experiences there, including things like the short above which goes into the differences between what it means to be a dinner guest in Vietnam and what it means to be a dinner guest in Germany. In Vietnam, it's apparently standard for the guests to cook dinner with you where as, in Germany, you're expected to have the meal ready when the guests arrive, making this a situation where it's super easy to come across as rude just by doing what you think is normal.

Society is relatively aware that these types of culture clashes are a thing, but you don't have to be from different cultures to have these types of situations. Every person has their own unique needs and ideas of what "normal" is. The culture they were raised in will affect this, but so will their family, their personal needs, and many other factors. Two people can be raised on the same street and wind up with wildly different world views even though they supposedly share a culture. This is extra true when you add in compounding factors like neurodiversity, which is why it's an exercise in futility to say, "But Maribug should have realized..."

Well, she clearly didn't. And you can't change that she didn't realize whatever you're mad about. All you can do is have someone tell her what she's doing wrong. If she then continues the behavior, go ahead and judge away. But if she immediately corrects it like she did in Hack San? Doesn't that just prove that she truly didn't know that Chat Noir was hurting and would have probably fixed all of his problems if someone just pointed them out to her?

This is only exacerbated by the fact that Marinette's behavior in season four is largely unchanged from her behavior in previous seasons. The only major change is that she revealed her identity to Alya, but as soon as that's pointed out as a problem, she course corrects with an apology. After that, she thinks that everything is okay because why wouldn't she? Chat Noir said it was fine and everything else has been business as usual.

Bringing temp heroes into help as needed? That's been going on since season two. Having these additional members has been vital in multiple battles and there have been plenty of times where Chat Noir took a background role to the temp hero of the day like in Sapotis, Rena Rouge's season two debut. So why would Maribug suddenly think that this dynamic is a problem when it's been working fine for so long? We even had a whole episode about how Chat Noir was still needed in spite of the new heroes back in season three! Or, at least, I think that was Desperada's message? This show is shockingly bad at giving clear lessons.

Keeping guardian knowledge from Chat Noir? That's also been going on since season two and was even treated as a conflict that supposedly got resolved in the episode Syren which was the episode that ended with Master Fu coming to the mansion to talk to Adrien after everything was over.

When I watched that episode, I assumed this meant that Chat Noir was going to be more involved in things like picking the temp heroes. I actually thought this was how we were going to get Queen Bee because I knew she was going to be a thing, but it made no sense for Marinette to pick Chloe for a miraculous. Of course, I was wrong. Nothing changed after Syren. Chat Noir remained nothing more than the comic relief while Ladybug got all the insider info.

To be clear, I think that was a terrible move writing wise, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what they went with. This is the established dynamic. I can't even say that Alya learning Marinette's secret led to something new. She's just taken Marinette's old role while Marinette has taken on Master Fu's old role. This show loves it's status quo and Chat Noir has been at least tolerant of that status quo since Syren, so it's not surprising that Maribug doesn't register that this is a thing that should change and no one bothers to point it out to her even though she has a mentor in Tikki (and Su Han, I guess?) and a confidant in Alya and a whole slew of Kwamis who could also provide insight if they were allowed to do that sort of thing. (Sass and Wayzz were robbed of mentor roles.) Additional blame goes to Plagg because he should absolutely have told Adrien to talk to Ladybug. What is the point of giving these characters mentors who never mentor? It's aggravating in the extreme.

To circle back to the first part of your ask, outside of Hack San and Rocketear, I don't think there are any times when Ladybug invites feedback from Chat Noir unless you want to give credit to the end of Kuro Neko:

Cat Noir: (lands next to her) I've been a really temperamental kitty, m'lady. I didn't realize how much trouble I'd make for you by giving back my Miraculous. Ladybug: (sits closer to him) Just because I don't need you all the time doesn't mean that I don't need you at all, Cat Noir. No one could ever replace you.

Which isn't Maribug inviting him to tell her what's up, but she is clearly willing to listen to him and reassure him, further backing up my point about this conflict being some of the worst writing I've ever had to suffer through. If Maribug always fixes the issue as soon as she learns about it, you are not writing a situation where she's clearly in the wrong. You are writing an easily solved communication issue where she gets blamed for something she clearly doesn't realize she's doing wrong and it is so frustrating!!! I feel so bad for her. The next episode is Penalteam, btw, which starts the battle with this gem:

Ladybug: (laughs) Nice scare tactics, but it's not gonna work. Cat Noir and I are the best at soccer! Cat Noir: (Whispers to Ladybug) I don't know a thing about soccer M'lady. Maybe it's time to call the real team?

And basically just spends the whole episode making Chat Noir seems like a worthless partner while Maribug tries her best to make him - and everyone else - feel special.

Oh, and the episode before Kuro Neko? Well, it's technically Ephemeral, but that got magically overwritten so let's go one further back and we get to Dearest Family, which ends with this:

Cat Noir: (grabs a golden paper crown on the coffee table) Since I'm the king, (wears the crown on his head) would you be my queen, Ladybug? Ladybug: With pleasure, kitty cat! Tradition is tradition!

Oh yes, these two are in such conflict and Maribug does nothing to validate Chat Noir. He's in pain every episode and she's just totally oblivious to it.

If that was what they wrote, then I'd probably agree that we needed more instances of her asking if Chat Noir was okay. But it's not what they wrote. If you look through the list of season four episodes, you'll find that less than half of them deal with the supposed conflict of the season (by my count, only 8 of the 24 episodes before the final actually showcase the conflict and they are not in a logical order in terms of escalation as I tried to demonstrate above). The rest of the episodes flat out ignore it or even straight up work against the conflict like when Ladybug says this to Chat Noir in Guilttrip: "I probably don't tell you this enough, but I couldn't do this without you. And it'd be a lot less fun too."

Seriously, what even is this season? What is the conflict supposed to be? Because it sure as shit isn't Maribug undervaluing Chat Noir, if memory servers, season four sees her validate him more times than any other season. And it isn't her guiltily hiding things from him like so many fanfics claim because we have multiple points of evidence that prove that she's completely oblivious that there even is a conflict. So what conflict are the writers actually trying to write?

What's even more baffling is that none of this logically leads to the loss at the end of the season:

Maribug's new secrets didn't lead to her downfall. The only reason she lost was because of the secret that's always been there - a fact that's never revealed to her - and a freaking evil twin! So why did it matter that Maribug was keeping secrets? This is made even worse by season five maintaining all of the secrets, once again begging the question of what lesson were we trying to teach here???

Chat Noir wasn't needed for the final fight of the season, Maribug only needed the powers of a few of the temp heroes to win, a baffling ending to a season whose focus was Chat Noir feeling unimportant. You could scrap that conflict entirely and the ending would not change. In fact....

Adrien quitting to be nothing more than a good little boy who obeys his father would have actually saved the world from eventually being rewritten. If you think about it, the season four final actually punishes Adrien for being defiant. So does season five as, if Chat Noir had quit, his father would still be alive. I thought this show was supposed to be a romcom, not a tragedy. Why is Adrien being punished for being a hero? Is this supposed to be karma for lying to Ladybug with the whole Catwalker thing?

This shit is why I say I'm a writing salt, character sugar blog. I can't get mad at the characters when they're in such a nonsense story where things never logically tie together. They all deserve so much better.

None of this is meant to imply that ignorance is a blanket excuse for hurting others. Nor is it meant to imply that you have to forgive someone who hurt you just because they didn't mean to. There's a ton of nuance around these topics. But season four acknowledges none of that nuance while creating a situation that desperately needed nuance because there was no clear right and wrong here. Should Maribug work to be more aware of others feelings? Sure, but that journey can only start after she's made aware of her faults and no one ever points them out to her. Does Chat Noir need to work on clearly communicating his needs? Desperately, but no one is teaching him that lesson so he remains a terrible communicator who suffers in silence. What impressively bad writing.

[bklily]

I fully agree, he belongs in the "oops, all trauma!" box. But who's gonna have the courage to put him there.

-

jokes aside like ok im about to go on a rant about Cat Walker

we joke about chat blanc being the scariest one and all but i actually think Cat Walker is easily the most disturbing persona of Adrien. To me personally

like sure Chat Blanc represents a lot of his anger and rage and abandonment. and Claw Noir does that too only in color and lipstick. but Cat Walker being the literal representation of Adriens ability to just, repress himself on command. to just shut off a huge part of his identity (Chat Noir) for what he fully believed to be forever. and easily start acting like a completely different person (Cat Walker) is so. incredibly disturbing to me.

like yeah the episode frames it lightheartedly but the IMPLICATIONS ARE THERE.

cat walker stares at the fact Adrien is so willing to abandon himself, to replace himself in people's lives, to stand by ladybug as a completely different person because thats what he believes she wants from him, to easily live behind layers and layers of masks, and he simply goes "i choose to not perceive that" and i think thats fucking wild man.

so yes, he does entirely belong in the box, but he sure as hell aint gonna admit it, because his whole thing is being the representation of Adrien's repression and covering up his problems. He's not gonna admit he has a problem. So if you try to stage a coup, YOU'RE going in the box, bucko.