#ml syren

[theerurishipper]

So, as a child abuse survivor and someone who has been sexually assaulted by men who think they're entitled to take what they want Adrien is canonically a god damned dick.

He sexually harrasses Ladybug. When told NO he once let 2.161 million people drown because he was busy throwing a tantrum

Being a victim of abuse does not excuse the abuse of others.

He might not mean any harm but you know who else doesn't mean any harm? Gabriel. My goddamned mother.

Not meaning harm- lacking malice- does not mean harm is not caused.

People are going on about him being a rich white guy because anyone else acting like that in public would be considered an antagonist (in fiction), in jail, or have an active warrant for their arrest. And that's assuming they aren't killed for it.

First off, I am truly very sorry for your experience. No one should have to go through that.

But I still do disagree.

Adrien's pushiness when it comes to expressing his affections for Ladybug are in the same boat as Marinette being a stalker or Chloe being pushy with Adrien: it's a joke. You may find it to be a poor one, certainly, but it's a joke nonetheless. Miraculous relies on this kind of humor, it's not meant to be taken seriously. You can have issues with it, but imho acting like it's any kind of legitimate criticism of his character probably makes people like me less inclined to listen to any actual criticisms you may have.

I don't say this to trivialize your experiences, and if the joke is hurtful to you, you are well within your rights to dislike it or talk about how it's in poor taste to make jokes about these things, but that's all it is, a joke. It's absurdist humor. It's not meant to be taken at face value. It would be creepy if Marinette seriously had Adrien's schedule mapped out, tried to break into his house, or stole his personal items, but it's not supposed to be that way because it's a joke.

And as for your complaint about Adrien leaving people to drown, you can go ahead and blame Master Fu for that one. It's stated quite clearly in the show that the heroes couldn't do anything because everything is underwater. And he's staying there because he's waiting for Ladybug. Making up imaginary civilians who are drowning now isn't a good criticism. Ladybug spends a good amount of time underwater, but there's no-one there. There's no civilian begging for Chat Noir's help as they drown while he ignores them, so suffice to say that we're supposed to assume everyone is safe and sound. This is a kids show, so unless we're shown that people are in danger, we aren't supposed to assume they are.

And then let's talk about Adrien almost quitting.

I'll say it straight: he has every right to quit. He's a 14-year-old kid. This isn't his job. He's well within his rights to quit if he feels like this is detrimental to him. And it isn't about Ladybug not returning his feelings like you seem to be implying. This is about Ladybug keeping secrets from him and leaving him in the dark even though he's supposedly her partner. It took a situation like this for Master Fu to pull his head out of his ass and come give Adrien the tools he needed to do the damn job you're accusing him of not doing. How is he supposed to do anything if he isn't given then necessary tools and knowledge to do it? Should he just accept that he's being ignored and left in the dark? Accept his new role as Ladybug's unquestioning lapdog?

This is not Ladybug salt btw, this is Master Fu salt only, in this house we don't like Master Fu.

Anyway.

Literally look at why he tries to quit.

Adrien:(grimly) If you don't tell me what Ladybug is hiding from me, I'm done! Plagg: You can't do that! Adrien:(bitterly) Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care!

He doesn't think he's needed. He doesn't think anyone would care if he quits.

This isn't because of any entitlement. It's because he's being cast aside and left in the dark. It's because his partner (it's not her fault either, to be clear, it's Master Fu's fault) is keeping secrets from him even in this time, so he assumes he isn't needed and decides to quit because he feels like he's unnecessary and unwanted, and that no one will care if he quits. Adrien already has very low self-worth, and this is just adding onto all that already. If it is detrimental to his mental health, then he definitely has the right to step aside and quit.

So yeah. If this ask was to get me to change my mind, I'm sorry, but it didn't. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I think I've made my opinion on the matter clear.

[bittersweetresilience]

Adrien Agreste and Borderline Personality Disorder

DISCLAIMER: I've been a bit low on spoons this week, so I haven't gathered as much evidence as I probably could have. Also, I am but a humble student in clinical psychology. This is mainly a thought compilation for @moonieratty!

To introduce the topic, without going into it too much, personality is described by features and behavioral patterns, or traits, consistent across situations and across time. Personality disorders are therefore enduring patterns of highly maladaptive traits evaluated in personal and sociocultural context (Dozois, 2019, p. 290).

Like other disorders, personality disorders have diagnostic criteria. The DSM is used primarily for diagnosis in the US and Canada while the ICD is used more widely in Europe and other places. I'm more familiar with the DSM, but I've included a brief section on the ICD to be comprehensive. It ended up a bit longer than anticipated, so let's go below the cut. Warning for discussions of abuse, self harm, and suicide, and a brief mention of substance use.

Overview of Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is prevalent in a small percentage of the population, about 1-2% by varying estimates, and is characterized by instability across domains of emotions, identity, interpersonal relationships, and behavior. Its onset is usually in late adolescence or early adulthood and symptoms may diminish with age, after one's thirties or forties, especially with therapeutic intervention. Along with ASPD, it has been the focus of a lot of clinical research; it is unfortunately associated with high rates of non-suicidal self-injury and suicide (APA, 2022, pp. 754–755; Dozois, 2019, pp. 308–309).

Etiological factors for BPD include both biological and environmental disturbances. Of note to our discussion is the heightened risk for BPD in cases of child abuse or neglect, as well as growing up with another family member with a serious mental health condition (NHS, 2022). It's been well established that Gabriel is emotionally neglectful if not outright abusive toward Adrien in multiple ways, so this is a clear risk factor. In addition, although I won't argue definitively for Gabriel having a psychological condition, he did keep Emilie's body in the basement, so there is clearly some kind of disturbance going on.

From a cognitive-behavioral perspective, Linehan argues that BPD stems from families who consistently invalidate childhood emotional experiences and "oversimplify the ease with which life's problems can be solved," which may cause children to learn to seek attention and communicate with others through emotional outbursts (Dozois, 2019, p. 297). This rings true for Adrien and Gabriel as well.

I have to apologize for my son, Ladybug, he's like his mother. Way too overly dramatic. (Jackady)

It doesn't seem like this is the first time Gabriel has thought this, and labeling an emotional reaction as being overly dramatic is very much invalidation of it. As for emotional outbursts, Adrien has had quite a few, mostly as Chat Noir. More on this later.

To round out this first section, attachment theory proposes a connection between poor parent-child attachments and BPD relationship difficulties. Specifically, maladaptive behavior in relationships may stem from childhood development of an anxious-ambivalent attachment style, where intense fears of abandonment interfere with a strong desire for intimacy (Dozois, 2019, p. 310). You can clearly see this in Chat Noir's relationship with Ladybug, and I'm sure other people have discussed Adrien's attachment style more in depth, but suffice to say I think this is an apt description.

Argument from DSM-5-TR

In the DSM, personality disorders are primarily diagnosed on a categorical model. There are a few general criteria which I won't be going into, but I will highlight that personality disorders are stable and pervasive, and would be diagnosed only if they were leading to significant distress or dysfunction. Adrien's mental state is not great, so the latter shouldn't be a problem, but this show does not always pay attention to consistency, so I'm going to be speculating some. Everything in this section is cited to the relevant DSM entry unless otherwise stated.

The DSM characterizes BPD with instability in relationships, self image, and affects, as well as marked impulsivity. It has no exclusion criteria, so BPD can be and frequently is comorbid with other disorders like mood disorders, PTSD, and ADHD. Of the below criteria, five need to be met in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Hey, where're you going? . . . So you're allowed to know her true identity, but I'm not? (Syren)

You're not really replacing me with a turtle, are you? (Anansi)

A lot of people have delved into Adrien's abandonment issues, which feature most prominently in his relationship with Ladybug. His fears of being replaced result in him seeking reassurance from Ladybug, and he can lash out if he does not receive the response he hopes for. Ladybug is his world, and he wants to be hers, so anything infringing on that feels to him like a threat of being abandoned, and he does not like it very much.

Impulsive behaviors like giving up his ring can be interpreted under this lens: he can avoid abandonment by doing the abandoning first. Then it will be him leaving, and not the other way around.

I also interpret Adrien's nightmare (Le Marchand de Sable) as being a fear of being alone as much as it is a fear of being trapped.

Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

We'll be united, more powerful and free. We'll defeat Hawk Moth, then we can both run away to an island! Far away from everything. We will live off nothing but fruits, and we will have a little pet hamster and we will name it— (Le Patineur)

I just can't do this anymore. I give up… on everything. Even you . . . If I become Chat Noir again, Ladybug will just end up rejecting me, over and over. (Kuro Neko)

Even though Adrien mostly keeps his head on straight regarding what he's owed and not owed by other people, his relationship with Ladybug is full of highs and lows. He thinks Ladybug is the most amazing girl, but this can recoil quickly into feeling as though Ladybug doesn't care about him enough or isn't meeting his needs.

Furthermore, he developed this idealization of Ladybug as a potential lover or caregiver at one of their first meetings (Cœur de Pierre), and continually sought to spend time together and share the intimate details of their secret identities early on. These are all common to individuals with BPD, as is the switch from idealization to feeling as if the other person "does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough." Ladybug is the only person Adrien consistently projects this instability and intensity on, which might be something interesting to explore.

Identity disturbance: unstable self image or sense of self

When I was a kid, I always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be! (Exauceur)

But, does that mean Chat Noir is who I really am? Deep down inside? (Kuro Neko)

With all the secret identities, it isn't surprising that Adrien fits this criterion, but canon even explicitly draws a link between Adrien's unstable sense of self and his childhood experiences. He doesn't know who he is, and he distracts from this by being Chat Noir, only to struggle even more when he feels useless and underlooked as his hero self. His behavior shifts dramatically between trying to prove himself with grand gestures and refusing to participate or lashing out. There is definitely something to discuss on this front.

Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas

Giving you some extra time . . . I trust you to bring me back, m'lady. (Gamer 2.0)

There are only two liars left in Paris and one of them knows the ultimate way to catch her attention . . . Crazy about you, m'lady. (Mensonge)

This is walking a thin line between impulsivity and suicidal behavior, which would be excluded from this criterion, but I'll list self sacrifice here because I can see an argument for Chat Noir's impulsive behaviors being out of love or the desire to be useful. There may still be some self injurious intent or euphoria, but Chat Noir does have faith in Ladybug to bring him back eventually. Nevertheless, this is impulsive and unhealthy. Chat Noir jumps too quickly to this option to have thought it through.

I can't think of another area, because Adrien isn't old enough for reckless driving, spending, substance use, or sex. This is also a kids' show. Just presenting these options for fanfiction writers out there.

Recurrent suicidal or self mutilating behavior, gestures, or threats

I... I don't know what to do! (Chat Blanc)

This is all our fault . . . Cataclysm. (Culpabysse)

By itself, what happened in Chat Blanc would not be solid evidence, as that was an unprecedentedly traumatic situation. Combined with Culpabysse, though, there is a strong case to be made for at least passive suicidality for this to be able to come up as an option.

You could also interpret the self sacrifice in this category. Suicidal behavior in individuals with BPD is often preempted by fears of rejection or abandonment, so an interesting analysis could be made on this front.

Affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood

He's still only thinking of himself! I just want this terrible day to be over and done with! I hate Christmas! (Pire Noël)

Sorry! Sorry! I didn't mean to make you so mad. I get it. You're sick of me . . . No one can help me, Kagami. (Glaciator 2)

Adrien's prolonged episodes of anger and despair reflect a high reactivity to emotional stressors, especially interpersonal ones. In general, he just doesn't feel very well unless something is actively bringing him joy. Most of his outbursts are brief, though, and I will discuss them as part of a later criterion.

Chronic feelings of emptiness

I'm not Adrien, so I wouldn't know if this is the case, but I can say he has experienced at least one depressive episode (Kuro Neko) and emptiness would not be unfamiliar. You can look at him and decide.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger

How was your amazing evening with your "friends"? . . . What do you think? (Glaciator)

Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care! (Syren)

A two-person plan?! There's only one two-person plan, and that's Ladybug and me! (Sentibulleur)

Give me a break, Miss "I can't even come up with a superhero name"! (Hack-San)

Anger in individuals with BPD can manifest as bitterness, sarcasm, or recurrent verbal outbursts, which Chat Noir absolutely exemplifies. These outbursts are often followed by feelings of shame or guilt and contribute to a feeling of being bad. Chat Noir apologizes after being harsh in Glaciator, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt badly about the other times. Again, these outbursts are often precipitated by interpersonal fears and perceived threats of abandonment. Unlike other symptoms, this specific one tends to be unique to BPD.

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociation

I cannot recall any evidence for this but headcanon away, my friends.

All in all, I think Adrien has a strong case for BPD presentation according to the DSM. Canon is not always consistent, but I think it presents an interesting and mostly coherent narrative for this lens. From this perspective, Adrien's behavior reflects a deep intolerance of being alone and a dependence on other people to define the self.

As a corollary, BPD behavioral patterns are frequently linked to self sabotage and self undermining right when a goal is about to be realized, which could manifest as dropping out of school right before graduating or ending a relationship when it seems to be going well. Food for thought. Individuals with BPD may also feel more secure with transitional objects like pets than with interpersonal relationships, which could reflect in Adrien's relationship with Plagg.

To add some subjective understanding to this clinical mumbo jumbo, I've added a source of genuine BPD experiences below (Mind, 2022).

Argument from ICD-11

With the release of the ICD-11, a dimensional model for diagnosis of personality disorders became the new standard. What this means is that individuals are no longer labeled as having 'histrionic' or 'dependent' or, indeed, 'borderline' personality disorders, but are rather assessed as having any form of personality disorder on a sliding scale of severity and with trait domain specifiers (Swales, 2022). To put it more simply, people are diagnosed only with a general personality disorder or personality difficulty which can be optionally specified as deviating on one of the personality traits in the Big Five model, which is well established in personality psychology.

This move has several benefits. Stigmatization related to particular personality disorders can be reduced, and differential diagnosis and comorbidity between personality disorders becomes irrelevant. However, people retain access to treatment and support. Evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavior therapy are particularly well established and crucial for BPD; for this pragmatic purpose, the ICD contains one additional specifier for borderline pattern personality disorder (Bach et al., 2022; Swales, 2022).

The DSM and ICD are designed to be compatible with each other in many ways, and in this case, the borderline specifier in the ICD is directly lifted from the criterion of the DSM (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5). Based on our previous discussion, Adrien would be equally qualified for a diagnosis in France. I would likely describe his personality disorder with moderate severity, where multiple areas of functioning are affected and self harming behaviors may be present, but not all areas or relationships may be equally impacted and traits are not as rigid and inflexible (WHO, 2023, 6D10.0–6D10.2).

Interestingly, the ICD includes three additional manifestations of borderline pattern which are optional and may vary across time (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5).

A view of the self as inadequate, bad, guilty, disgusting, and contemptible

An experience of the self as profoundly different and isolated from other people; a painful sense of alienation and pervasive loneliness

Proneness to rejection hypersensitivity; problems in establishing and maintaining appropriate levels of trust in relationships; frequent misinterpretation of social signals

I'm fascinated by the number of adjectives in here. I simplified very slightly, as I did with the DSM criteria, but I had to keep all these adjectives. Anyway, I won't elaborate for too many more paragraphs, so let's say sentimonster moment and leave it at that. I will spare you my mirrored Félix essay. For now.

Qualifications and Limitations

First of all, Adrien is a teenager. The distinguishing factor between a personality disorder and regular adolescent difficulties would be longevity and identity concerns beyond his developmental phase (APA, 2022, p. 758). Second of all, Adrien has a uniquely terrible home life and magical problems. Some of his behaviors could be normal considering his experiences and sociocultural context, and this matters when it comes to psychological evaluation. Take everything with a grain of salt!

More generally, the categorical model of the DSM has several issues, not to mention diagnostic issues related to culture, gender, and stigma. Some but not all of these issues are addressed by the dimensional model it includes in a later section, which shares theoretical foundations with the model of personality disorders in the ICD. Even so, issues remain. Diagnosis, access to treatment, and political statements are intrinsically linked in complex ways. I won't get into all of the nuances, but be safe, remember this is a fictional character, and keep an open mind.

REFERENCES:

American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.). https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425787

Bach, B., Kramer, U., Doering, S., di Giacomo, E., Hutsebaut, J., Kaera, A., De Panfilis, C., Schmahl, C., Swales, M., Taubner, S., & Renneberg, B. (2022). The ICD-11 classification of personality disorders: A European perspective on challenges and opportunities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Emotion Dysregulation, 9(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40479-022-00182-0

Dozois, D. J. A. (2019). Abnormal psychology: Perspectives (6th ed.). Pearson.

Mind. (2022, September). What does BPD feel like? https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/experiences-of-bpd/

National Health Service. (2022, November 4). Causes - Borderline personality disorder. https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/causes/

Swales, M. A. (2022). Personality disorder diagnoses in ICD-11: Transforming conceptualisations and practice. Clinical Psychology in Europe, 4(Special Issue). https://doi.org/10.32872/cpe.9635

World Health Organization. (2023). International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (11th ed.). https://icd.who.int/

[halfahelix]

In this particular Lies screenshot it does look like his stripes got transferred from his shirt to the cabinet 😂 However, they have always matched (although with opposite orders)!

From the wiki gallery: Simon Says, The Collector, Syren, Oni-chan, Felix

Sorry about the reflection on the screen but everybody please look at this animation glitch in Lies where the stripes on Adrien's shirt disappeared and ended up on the cabinet in the background

[gee-arid]

Syrens awesome i love her. Old sketch digitally coloured cus i remembered my sketchbook existed.

The original sketch, from a loooong time ago.

[clawsoutspotsoff]

Spooktober: Cabin On The Lake

"Are you okay, Kim?" "Yeah I just, uh... did you guys just see something at the window?"

bonus isolated/still Syrens because the gif lost a lot of quality:

[celestiall0tus]

Syren Notes - All That Remained

And here we go with another egregious example of bad writing decisions.

So, this is very much a double edged sword. On one hand, I agree with naturegreen that the secret of Master Fu wasn't hers to tell. She was told basically to keep her piehole shut until he was ready. But this really was just to create unnecessary drama and boy does it hurt.

I do agree that Chat should have been in the loop since the moment Lady learned of Master Fu. He is a hero and should know about the other hero bullshit as Lady does. There really is no benefit to keeping him in the dark other than basic ass fucking drama. And that shit is so surface level that it hurts.

Then there is Adrien. So, I see more of the entitlement here. Feeling that he deserves to know. Which, yes, he does. However, there was no need to push Plagg to reveal such things. He honestly does need to learn that no means no and to deal with it.

And, fuck, I hate to get into this because of what we see in later seasons, but I just need to say it now. Adrien doesn't feel like a victim of abuse with how the writers are portraying him. Yes, he has moments in later seasons where we see moments of that. However, all I'm seeing (in season 2) is a whiny average teen with a mildly average life. And I know that people react to abuse and trauma differently, but fucks sakes. This doesn't feel like that in the slightest. And it's bothering the ever living hell out of me.

I know the writers are inconsistent with their characters and having them act certain ways for the plot, but come on! Abuse is something serious and needs to be written well from the very fucking beginning to be believable. In later seasons, taking out these earlier ones, I could possibly believe it. Here? Fuck no.

Personal notes. Ondine is... a far cry from what I remembered her as. I still think she's too good for Kim. Kim is... well, Kim.

SIGH Getting to the end of these. Well, Kuro Neko will be next. Get ready for that dumpster fire.

[therealtrashpanda]

So.. I gave derision another chance.

And... I still hate it so much.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Just come to an interesting realization about ML: since TAS decided to shove elements of Chinese mysticism into the Miraculous, the Sentimonsters are effectively a type of yaoguai (or yokai if one prefers the Japanese term), with the term referring to a broad class of beings that have in common supernatural powers and being in some way "weird", plus a "different" sense of morality that comes from their excess of Yin attribute qi (to give a VERY abridged version, Yin qi is more impulsive and destructive). There's even a famous yaoguai that shares the characteristic of being an inanimate object brought to life: Sun Wukong was, after all, born from a rock that happen to lie in a very favorable place for long enough to accumulate enough qi...

The Sentimonsters also happen to become extremely animalistic and destructive when uncontrolled, that in the known humanlike ones translates in some magnificently selfish and destructive tendencies and sudden emotional bursts (see Felix' thefts and attempted genocide of humanity, or Adrien in season 2 blackmailing Plagg to see Master Fu). Fittingly, Adrien and Felix matured due the influence of two kwami, two divine beings and thus more enlightened.

And to my utter horror and dismay, that also means Tomoe isn't anywhere as bad as a parent as she seems, as she both managed to raise a yaoguai into a calm and mature young woman AND has a perfectly valid justification for her overly controlling tendencies (mainly knowing the true nature of her daughter and thus the potential for destruction and chaos she has).

And to my utter irritation, I'm pretty sure this is just another example of accidentally good writing, because if it was intentional TAS would have made it clearer for Westerners that don't have far greater than average knowledge of Chinese folklore...

I still will fight about Adrien's actions in Syren, while part of a breakdown, were perfectly understandable and Human not something done out of Senti-morality

[chronicallylatetotheparty]

*ahem*

Things would have gone so much better for everyone involved if Plagg had just taken Adrien's bribe and told him about the Guardian.

(No, I will not take constructive criticism. I'm right.)

Things would have gone so much better for everyone involved if Plagg had just taken Adrien's bribe and told him about the Guardian.

(No, I will not take constructive criticism. I'm right.)

[ilikekidsshows]

In retrospect do you think there were any major red flags in writing up to the S3 finale of ML that foreshadowed its downfall in future seasons or do you think it all started in what you call the retool era (S4&5).

I’d say we’re dealing with a lot of “recurring issues” and some actual red flags. As I’ve stated repeatedly, the New York Special basically has the same Ladynoir break up and get back together plot as season four, and it was bad in the New York Special and absolutely horrid in season four. Also, the show’s worst episodes, ‘Reflekdoll’ and ‘Kwamibuster’ reflect a lot of the writers’ more asinine writing decisions in the future. The New York Special and some season three episodes are, therefore, definitive red flags.

But yeah, the earlier seasons had some warning signs too. Adrien/Cat Noir is presented first and foremost as a lust object of Marinette’s. We don’t see Marinette appreciating Adrien as a person until ‘Origins’; before that point she’s only literally staring slack-jawed and drooling at Adrien’s photoshoots and ads. Marinette is also destructively jealous of Adrien from the point Lila is introduced, and she only escalates with the introduction of Kagami. Marinette’s objectification of Adrien has been in the show since its inception, considering that the original Adrien, thePV Félix, is presented in promotional materials as sullen, rude and unpleasant, meaning Marinette’s infatuation was most likely purely based on his looks. So, like, the sexism of heterosexual romance but the genders are just reversed is part of the show’s DNA.

Another important thing to note about the series is that our only Adrien-focused episodes, that focus on Adrien having some kind of a development arc with his feelings where he gets to be proactive about them instead of the show just showing the audience “oh, he’s upset now” or “oh, he’s happy now” and don’t still give Marinette a lion’s share of the focus and emotional weight, are ‘Copycat’ and ‘Santa Claws’, maybe arguably ‘Gorizilla’, though I suspect the Marinette trying to score a date segment takes up far more time than the important reveal of Adrien’s family problems. The writers have always prioritized Marinette’s feelings over Adrien’s.

Adrien’s contributions on the superhero side of things have also been getting downplayed since the start. He’s the more likely target of slapstick, with the show pilot ‘Stormy Weather’ having him get treated like a ping pong ball. He’s the one getting brainwashed or taken out by the Akumas frequently. And he’s the one the heroes’ shared mentor ignores completely. In ‘Syren’, Fu had to be strongarmed into meeting Adrien once, and then he never made an effort again. This is also the episode where the idea that Adrien shouldn’t complain about being treated as less than and should just patiently wait for whatever scraps he gets as a member of a team is first introduced. However, this episode was easily overlooked at the time, because the episode, in the end, had Fu meeting with Adrien, seemingly setting up Adrien being treated more equally, a promise that was never followed up on.

Now, though, I’d like to say why these things went unnoticed as red flags and just being some recurring issues. The thing about Adrien’s objectification was this: the people watching thought it was a joke and a sign of Marinette’s immaturity. It was presented humorously, and Marinette started being less creepy at Adrien once she became more able to talk to him. This, coupled with other lessons Marinette had about clear communication with her loved ones, like ‘Weredad’ and ‘Befana’, made people believe Marinette was going to have a character arc to grow into a more mature person who’s able to treat Adrien like a human being. This is another promise the writers never followed up on when they then retconned Adrien into a RealDoll and made him Marinette’s therapist to make sure Marinette never has to treat Adrien normally.

As for the lack of Adrien focus, the reason it went unnoticed was actually the lesser focus on other heroes, and the deeper emphasis on the superhero action than in S4-5. There were less heroes and more time spent on Akuma fights, which meant more screen time for Adrien as Cat Noir at least. When Cat Noir is the primary character Ladybug can interact with, he gets to give plenty of input on things and when he’s Ladybug’s only backup, he gets to do more things in battles. And then we add to that the bigger time the earlier seasons spent on Akuma fights, we get more of both of those things. It’s simple math. So, while Adrien didn’t get to contribute decisively a lot, he did get to contribute. Also, they had this thing where Adrien’s eclectic studies would be used to have Cat Noir give Ladybug highly specific but useful information.

Basically, yeah, there were some red flags and other lesser but still worrying stuff too.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

ML au: Lady of Second Chances (Season 2)

(Season 1)

-So Fu introduces himself and Marinette greets him.

-Marinette had thought about this before this meeting. How much she should tell him? Should she tell him.

-After some thought, she decided she should tell him, since she never finished her training and there is more she doesn’t know.

-She tells him that she was his student and that she knows a lot, explaining the cliff notes of what happened to him and what he taught her.

-Fu was surprised and believed her because what she knew about feast and Marianne. She had to be telling the truth.

-Marinette even explained how she made the akuma charms.

-Fu asks how much if the timeline she already altered?

-Marinette explained that she is trying to keep the core events the same, but certain things that were disastrous she can change.

-Fu decides to trust her judgement, but warns her that this could be dangerous, all this knowledge. So be sure that using this knowledge it is for the betterment. Which Ladybug agrees

-First thing Marinette does is tell Fu he should go introduce himself to chat noir and explain his story.

-“he’s trust worthy and all the waiting only causes issues.”

-Fu nods that he will make time after he decides the book.

__________________________________________

-Gabriel still gets akumatized because he wanted to ensure ladybug and chat noir were off his trail.

-Gabriel never pulls adrien out of school since he had no reason to. But he makes up some bs to be mad about it.

-Ladybug tells Chat noir of her theory and just like in canon they beat collector.

-Ladybug gives Gabriel a charm so no akumatizations.

-Gabriel finds out how what the thing he gave her is and now realizes things will be tough since he can’t akumatize the same person 2 times in a row.

-Prime queen happens,but ladybug doesn’t let herself get flustered by the images this time. Ladybug leaves with much more tact and chat noir agrees that it wasn’t cool for this to be sprung on them. Though chat noir does mention he wishes he remembered the kiss.

-“Akuma involved kisses don’t count kitty.” Which Chat noir agreed that next kiss they have it will be unrelated to the akuma. Ladybug smiles and says that she agrees with that.

-Chat noir doesn’t suggest kissing plans, since after his talk with Ladybug, why would he jeopardize that? But ladybug suggests it though just like in canon, it was a fake out.

- despair bear, Gigatitan, Befana, and Frightningale are all the same. Marinette taking Fu’s advice and not altering things too much.

-Riposte has Marinette determine that Kagami won. Since she is a bit more measured around Adrien. Which prevents the akuma, but also does shift how Kagami views Adrien and Marinette. Kagami still has her confidence and doesn’t view Adrien as a flirty rival. Marinette wonders if that correction was for the right call.

-Troublemaker changes. Marinette remembers the live show and hides all her pictures in advance. Also locking her door. Troublemaker happens but Marinette doesn’t end up humiliated. Adrien does check on Marinette because her home was attacked, but it’s less embarrassing for her. Though Adrien knows cause chat noir knows.

-Gorizilla is the same but Marinette is not in her pj’s she actually bothered to change

-Sapotis, Anansi are both the same cause hero debuts

-Syren changed. Chat noir met Fu much earlier so he doesn’t have the hang up he had. Ladybug and chat noir already had the potions thanks to Marinette knowing half the recipes. Syren was beat easy

-Reverser was avoided because Marinette handled the exchange better. No misunderstandings

-Captain hardrock still happened because the reason the akuma happened was stupid. Marinette meets Luka, but after everything she remembered, she thinks just keeping him as a friend is better in the long run, plus mentally she got over him already. So it’s still awkward for her. She manages.

-Glaciator is actually avoided. So Ladybug remembered the confusion that happened over this and tells chat noir she couldn’t make it, but that they could schedule another time. Which Chat noir agrees with. So no miscommunication to be had. Adrien sneaks out to get ice cream with his friends instead of prepping the romantic dinner. Which means Adrien is there and he has ice cream with Marinette. Which also adds more to Adrien’s muddled feelings.

-Frozer doesn’t happen because After riposte, Kagami and Adrien never get that close. They fence but it’s the event of riposte that made it happen.

-Zombizou happens because it’s important for Chloé’s growth. And Marinette still thinks what bustier said was dumb. Robostus and dark owl both happen.

-So Marinette gets to the day of the fashion week. And she had to contemplate if she lets things happen as is or if she fixes it. Marinette decides to alter course. By giving the bee to Chloe. Seeing if this would help change some things.

-Bee Chloe helps and thanks to her they beat style queen. The problem this time was that Chloé didn’t want to give up the bee. Resulting in queen wasp. Just a slight alteration to the plot.

-Gabriel doesn’t give up because he picks up on the fact that the super heroine bee is going against ladybug. He could use that.

-Chloe had ditched her akuma charm as she felt she didn’t need it with her powers. And things took a turn.

-Queen wasp ends up happening and Chloe realizes ladybug is right. Apologizing, saying she just wanted to be exceptional… to make her mom proud.

-So Maledikator doesn’t happen because, due to the events of Queen wasp. Chloe never exposed herself and doesn’t try to gloat she was queen bee. So her presentation was different.

-Sandboy was basically unchanged but Marinette warned the kwami that Hawkmoth was in control and nixed the plan. So less struggle of finding the kwamis

-So this is where things shift. So Volpina didn’t happen, because Marinette intercepted early. Also, it should be noted that Marinette did tell Alya that Hawkmoth might go after Lila if he saw that interview. Which Alya agreed and took it down.

-Marinette is still annoyed with Lila’s lies. But right now she’s harmless.

-Lila never got akumatized and has no hatred for ladybug or chat noir. The only person she isn’t stoked on is Marinette. But like it was only one interruption. So Lila doesn’t think much of it. I guess she sees how popular the heroes are and gets jealous. So Hawkmoth akumatizes her. To get the events going. (And for the sake of laziness, I say sure)

-Hawkmoth had Catalyst make it so he could akumatize a bunch of people. AND ignore the charm. Which because work arounds. It worked.

-Ladybug does assemble her team. But here is the big question. (Which I leave up to you all)

[miraculous-prompts]

Take ML, the last story driven comic you read and the last video game you played and smash them together to make a crossover AU featuring Syren, Banana Noir and Mayura

[ovyy-pvcure]

Loathe as I am to revive S4 drama this is the episode that convinced me I was 100% correct to drop the show after Season 3 and this post more or less sums up why: it's the kind of thematic mess that happens when writers are unfocused, conflicted, and either rushed or terribly unskilled leading to a very frustrating confusing watching experience. Kuro Neko is such a clustered thematic mess that it is nearly impossible to put my thoughts down on it in an organized manner, but let me try anyway.

Chat Noir's stated problems with his partnership with Ladybug -the ones he actually says, not the one the show puts in his mouth later but put a pin on that cause I'm coming back for it-are not entirely without merit. To summarize Chat feels undervalued, untrusted, and like he has no voice in what used to be, if not an equal partnership, one where he could speak up or contribute. For the person fighting by Ladybug's side this whole time learning she's had another secret hero on the side he was never aware of, not being trusted with the -already outed mind you-temp heroes identities or miraculous retrieval when, yes, it would have saved time if Ladybug hadn't argued about it or even tabled the discussion for later when they weren't both on ticking clocks must feel awful. Where's the consideration for how Adrichat feels?

The answer to that is a few episodes back in "Rocketear" where Ladybug point blank asks him if something is wrong and he answers in the negative, and then never opens up about it afterward until it results in this tantrum-based act of quitting for the 2nd time. Third if you count his threat in "Syren" when people were actively drowning in the Seine.

Which drags forth an uncomfortable question of "well, why should Maribug trust Adrichat with anything when he's so consistently feckless, self-centered, incompetent and air headed"? Why should Ladybug trust the person who lounges mid-fight and got both their memories erased? Who goads and teases her about his unrequited crush that all of Paris is cheering on in a fight against an Akuma in an attempt to wear her down? A thing that occurs multiple times past where Ladybug has stopped jokingly flirted back upon realizing how serious Chat's feelings are? Who openly states he likes seeing her mad, and does things to provoke her endangering her, him, all of Paris, and also THE WORLD? Why should Maribug consider how Adrichat feels when he never considers how anyone else may feel, or how his actions effect others? All that without having the audience-only knowledge that Adrien's not missing fights because of a packed schedule or out-of-town woes, no he's sitting in his room feeling bad for himself because Ladybug has other people to rely on. Booo, boo on you Adrien.

And all that? All that is incredibly unfair to Chat who has been there since the beginning, who has contributed, who has kept the atmosphere light, and supported Ladybug from the beginning. Ladybug's increased responsibility, and accordingly stress could use a dose of fun and reminder of the joys of heroing when out-of-combat, so really what Chat needed is the right time and place. To crack jokes, to discuss his issues, to float the idea of collecting or even being able to hand out other miraculous when needed. Instead of throwing an on-the-spot tantrum making a vague post and dropping one-half of the world-ending power on a random roof and walking away because he has no ability to emotionally regulate at 13. Which really just hammers home how irresponsible and unworthy of any of the things he wants he actually is.

Not that it must have been easy finding a moment to get Ladybug together to talk given their civilian lives, burgeoning romances (for all of, what, a week?), and said increase in her duties where in an ironic twist her ability to pull a team on demand made her less of a team player. An issue the series tries to put on display in "Penalteam", but largely fails it when it would have been better here where Ladybug is, however understandably, snappy and dismissive of Chat. Ladybug's increased role as leader of a team pulls her, and Chat, further from their origins as a duo as she increasingly leans more on Alyarouge and her own chosen team whose identities she knows when the only reason she doesn't know Chat's is due to out-of-date rules set by Fu alone. If Adrichat's penchant for being mind controlled or Maribug's repeated close-calls with Akumas are meant to be the reason she certainly never voices it. Of course the real reason for the identity rule, and indeed the reason this episode is so frustrating and not a single of these reasons for the season-long erosion of the Ladynoir dynamic and trust are actually tackled in the episode itself; the Lovesquare. As Always The Lovesquare ruins everything .

No, Chat Noir isn't irresponsible and demanding the problem is Ladybug doesn't like him back and that makes him sad. No, Ladybug isn't more pushy, irritable and snappy than usual because of her various stressors leaving her sleepless and on the verge of a breakdown the problem is her partner is in looOoOoOove with her. And the whole episode and conflict really just falls apart from there, because it's no longer about the conflict the writers actually set up it's an episode about the ~Love Square~.

Hope you kept that pin in mind because we're there. Because the conflict the writers have set-up all season, in the opening of the episode, in the concept of the episode is fairly interesting. It regards responsibility, compromise, the importance of communication and changing roles in a significant other's life. But then the writers or producers or Astruc or someone decided to throw the actual conflict aside because romance is supposed to be the focus of the show. Completely ignoring that even in a romance show non-romantic drama is important to -especially since as Season 5 (and Astruc's twitter) will be happy to tell us Ladynoir is totally platonic and doesn't have aNyThINg to do with Adrinette the actual endgame pairing at all (oy vey...)- the conflict isn't resolved! Adrichat is in love with Ladybug who, as Maribug, is in love with Adrien so Cat Walker -who's based on the Adrien mask he wears in public but isn't Adrien in totality- shuts down her brain so Maribug can't have a useful strategic partner who doesn't recklessly jump into battle because giving it back to the guy who a) quit recklessly, spontaneously and without a single contingency b) is still in love with her and therefore sad (:( ) about it because she can't love him back because she's already in love with someone else (didn't stop him while he was dating Kagami but whatever I guess) c) will remain huffy about the concept of heroes other than him and "his lady" existing and d) is none of those positive things I just listed (when he demonstrates he could be he just chooses not to. but Maribug doesn't know that part because Gatekeep, Girlboss, Gaslight AdriPlagg) is such a good idea.

Because they worked and Cat Walker didn't? Find someone else then! Give the ring to Alya or Su Han and have them choose. throw a dart at the a class register with Chloe, Sabrina and Lila crossed out and give it to whoever that lands on. Hell, throw a dart out the window and give it to Zoe Lee since next season she's easily just as competent as Chat Noir anyway since he's not particularly skilled, useful, competent or smart. The episode never resolves its damn conflict who wrote this shit. Oh! Four people wrote this episode. That explains so. much(Thomas Astruc, Melanie Duval, Fred Lenoir, and Sebastian Thibaudeau).

Notice how Ladybug has to apologize to Chat Noir for not making him feel special enough when he has done nothing to earn it. He quit with vague wording, left the ring with Plagg trapped inside on a roof, moped around instead of being helpful, discussed nothing with Ladybug, lied to and manipulated Ladybug all episode, doesn't actually defeat the sentimonster -Ladybug does that by herself like she always does because Cat Walker buggered off to let her focus-shows up the end to half-heartedly apologize for quitting saying, and I quote "I didn't realize how much trouble I'd make for you by giving back my Miraculous.". I'm sorry Adrien. By "giving back [your] Miraculous"? That's not how I remember it! I remember you abandoning Plagg and the ring on a random roof in a random district of Paris! It's like the show is actively trying to gaslight me, the audience member, at this point.

Not that Ladybug's followup of Chat Noir being irreplaceable is any better considering he was easy to replace. His replacement was better in every way. In Season 5 he'll be replaced again and she's just as good if not better than him anyway. All said without telling us why Adrichat is so irreplaceable.

In "Truth" Ladybug says she likes Chat Noir's courage, self-confidence and sense of humor. Which are all likeable characteristics, their the reasons I liked Adrien in the first few seasons myself, until they become flaws when he takes them too far. Chat's courage frequently becomes recklessness, his self-confidence arrogance-such as, say, thinking himself better or more special than the other heroes-his humor irreverence. In the same episode Chat Noir says he's fine with the guardianship if it doesn't change things between them; which it does. It changes their roles, how Ladybug sees Adrichat and Alyarogue, how their dynamic works at a very base level. But none of that can be linked to our leads wanting to suck each other's faces so it all gets tossed out with the bathwater to give us a meaningless Lovesquare moment at the end of the episode after hammering the lovesquare button all episode ignoring all the set up of the first episode of the season.

Chat Noir never tells us his favorite parts of Ladybug but let's assume he'd probably note her decisiveness, creativity (when he's not drooling over anything that looks like Ladybug but wants to kiss him), and her self-assurance/ability to stand up for herself. Same deal that those taken too far become the kind of flaws we see of her that are never addressed despite being part of the actual conflict of the episode. Maribug's decisiveness becomes bull-headed inflexibility logically and morally, her creativity unreasonable complexity, her self-assurance dismissive close mindedness (Chat Noir can't have a point he's just trying to chat me up and wasting time). Again, positive traits that made me a Marinette fan that can cause conflict and if addressed can be really fun to work with. The show just doesn't want to.

Why would I, as an Adrien fan -and don't let how negatively I've been ragging on him I was an Adrien fan when I watched the show-want him to end up with someone who doesn't listen to him, takes him for granted unless he's actively making a fuss, and puts him down when frustrated? (Ignore how Marinette wouldn't put Adrien down because Love or whatever; this is back when Maribug and Adrichat being the same people mattered and the series didn't pretend the people behind the masks didn't matter when they were in the masks.) Why would I want him to end up with someone who's scheduling could become as suffocating and controlling as Gabriel's? Why would I want him to end up with someone who lies to him and makes him look up to his abuser?

Why would I, as a Marinette fan, want her to end up with someone who sulks and gets easily jealous without talking to his partner? Who lies to and manipulates her on a whim to get what he wants? Who demonstratively doesn't respect her boundaries? Why would I want her to end up with someone who has already tried to cheat on another girlfriend with her (Yes, continuing to seriously hit on Ladybug while dating Kagami is attempting to cheat on her, no I will not be taking criticism, questions or disagreements)?

This episode certainly never tells me, it just tells me there was a disagreement but Chat Noir is irreplaceable for Reasons. Where is my reason to root for these characters? Where is my reason to want to see this romance come to a fruition? Where is my resolution to the episode's conflict!?

As a byproduct of my attempts to explain why "Destruction" is thematic dumpster fire, here's a third iteration of why "Kuro Neko" is one, too. It's a cute episode but is it ever a testimony to how the writers just didn't care.

Marinette learns the lesson that she needs Cat Noir as her partner! in an episode where she discovers that the alternative to him is far more competent, genuine, and charming. She defeats the villain without anyone's help and the reason she needs Cat Noir back has nothing to do with his having skills or experience or any unique quality that she doesn't find elsewhere. It's literally because the substitute is too hot and Cat Noir's in the friendzone.

The vital dichotomy between Adrien and Cat Noir is officially cancelled. There's no need to question the reason why Adrien presents so differently as a superhero, like his personal life being deeply troubled thanks to his lacking control over his public image, his lacking control over how he spends his days, and the fact that he's a literal slave to his father and Nathalie. Plagg helpfully explains that Cat Noir has nothing to do with Adrien Agreste™ being a false and insufficient expression of Adrien's true personality, because they're not variations of an incomplete mask, but two equal expressions of the self. Cemented by Cat Walker earning a place equal to Cat Noir in the endcard, and S5 never again alluding to any tension in Adrien's self-perception

"I'm quitting because Ladybug doesn't think I'm special" "He quit because he's in love with you and you didn't make him feel special" "He quit because being in love with me hurt him" "I won't go back because being in love with her hurt me" "Sorry for quitting just because you don't think I'm special" COULD YOU KINDLY MAKE UP YOUR MIND

The episode ends with Cat Noir remorseful over being a drama queen and Ladybug reassuring him that she still cares even though he's not her special partner any more. This lesson is repeated at the beginning of the very next episode, and they're both in agreement of that status. By the end of "Strike Back", Ladybug for no discernable reason believes that her keeping secrets from Cat Noir is why Felix Fathom lied his arse off, backstabbed her and gave Hawkmoth all the miraculouses. Cat Noir is once again her "faithful partner" and not just her favourite member on the Hero Team. Not by merit of his loyalty, of his courage, of his ability to do something the others could not. Oh no, Cat Noir is her Special Partner because he's the only one who doesn't hand his miraculous back after battle. Wow.

So there's this sentimonster shaped like a black cat. It is literally named "Black Cat". It is a substitute for a lost kitty which meaningfully ecchoes Ladybug's own and currently lost black cat. Ladybug in fact initially mistakes the sentimonster for her "lost kitty", believing he has been akumatised. After that misunderstanding is cleared up, she wins the battle by killing it. The sentimonster that was named after her partner who the very next episode will all but confirm is himself a sentimonter. That's how she wins the battle wherein she learns that she needs him by her side. By singelhandedly killing the black cat sentimonster named after him.

[goofygoldengirl]

How I Would Reorganize The Agreste Plotline If Miraculous Ladybug Were For An Older Audience

NOTE: Contains Season 5 Spoilers, Leak References, and Discussion of Mature Topics

I say reorganize instead of rewrite since I’m working with canon and embellish only on a few plot points that haven’t fully been touched upon yet. If you want to see how I reorganize the agreste plot for the show as is check out this post.

Season 1

Show in universe that everyone is aware of Emilie’s disappearance. In Origins, passing news blurb that it has been X amount of days and there are no leads into the Agreste case. This in turn, affects how his peers at school treat him, with some fawning over him like we see in the show, and the more sensitive ones reluctant to approach him due to his situation.

Ladybug is Adrien’s first ever crush. Show instead of implying on twitter that he takes romance hints from anime.

Plagg is aware of Adrien’s situation with wanting more independence and about mom’s disappearance. While he displays a lazy, go lucky attitude, he worries over Adrien. He encourages him to find himself as Chat Noir.

Show that even before Gabriel starts using the butterfly miraculous to get his wife back, he has unhealthy coping mechanisms. In the first few weeks after Emilie falls into a coma, he turns to drinking. Nathalie frequently joins him on his binges since she harbors guilt about Emilie’s illness. One night, they both get drunk and share a heated kiss.

Due to the kiss, and the stress of losing Emilie, there is a heavy tension between them. One day Nathalie snaps.

“What else could we have done? Emilie is gone! There’s no way we can bring her back! And if there was a possibly that we could, she’d hate us for it! Especially if she found out---I’m sorry I should have never brought that up. I’ll be on my way sir.”

Show that both Nathalie and The Gorilla care about Adrien despite their cold exteriors. With the next couple of seasons, he begins to open up to them, and they in turn.

Have Hawkmoth’s reveal that he is Gabriel take place at end of season 1 instead of beginning of season 2 in ML proper 

Flashback 1: It is 2014 and Adrien is six years old. He asks his mother why he can’t go out and play with other kids and go to school like his cousin Felix and Chloe. Emile smiles, cradles his face, and tells him that he can’t because he is a very special boy.

Season 2

Introduce Kagami and Adrien’s crush on her. Tease Ms. Tusguri and Gabriel Agreste’s connection earlier than presented in ML Proper with a business call.

The in universe news about Emilie’s disappearance dies down due to a lack of leads.

Show how Adrien is still naive when it comes to interacting with the world, and why he may not pick up on the fact that Marinette has a crush on him due to the fact that everyone fawns over him.

Show one of Master Fu’s tutoring sessions with Adrien post Syren. Master Fu plants a seed of doubt in Adrien’s head that all is well with his family.

Highlight early on that while Gabriel does love his son, he loves the idea of Adrien the perfect, obedient child more than Adrien the trying adolescent. Make it clear that Adrien is Emilie’s child and that Gabriel found it difficult to connect to Adrien even before Emilie’s disappearance.

Start of Gabriel’s slippery slope into madness due to the constant losses.

Nathalie’s infatuation with Gabriel is teased early on in season 2, then confirmed with the events of Style Queen. She becomes more bold with her feelings. At the end of season 2, they almost kiss but Gabriel hesitates.

The events of Heroes Day play out like in ML proper . However, have Gabriel explicitly mention that it was the peacock miraculous that made Emilie ill. 

Flashback 2: Takes place post Emilie’s “disappearance” but prior to season 1. Amelie and Felix visit. Amelie asks Gabriel for the Graham de Vanilly ring. Adrien and Felix interact. Felix has a mean streak. He asks how Adrien can deal “with such insufferable people.”

Season 3

Adrien and Kagami get together earlier. As a result their break up plays out a season earlier.

Nathalie takes up her role as Mayura. Her health worsens. Gabriel worries, and their relationship deepens to the point where they begin an affair. Gabriel is shown to feel guilty at first, but as he becomes more hellbent on being Hawkmoth, that guilt subsides.

Introduce sentimonsters like in ML proper. Place a hint that Adrien could be one.

Adrien mentions to Plagg that his mother used to have dizzy spells/ coughing fits like Nathalie. Plagg asks what disease she had. Adrien doesn’t know. He then asks Gabriel what type of illness Emilie had. Gabriel tells Adrien to mind his own business.

People drop hints that Marinette likes Adrien. Show that Adrien is in denial of his own feelings for her because of his feelings for Ladybug.

Show how Adrien gets stressed because of his modeling job. He is exposed to the underbelly of the fashion industry where his modeling peers have eating disorders, have drug/alcohol addictions, or are sexually preyed upon or exploited by their managers. Adrien wants out. He pleads with his father to stop modeling but is denied.

Introduce Felix like in ML proper. Show that Felix is knowledgeable about the miraculouses. Have him eye Gabriel’s brooch before leaving.

Have Chat Blanc and Ephemeral take place in this season. Keep plot and outcomes the same.

Gabriel starts to act more like Hawkmoth in real life and less like himself.

Flashback 3: Takes place when Gabriel, Emilie, and Nathalie are twenty years old. In the summer of 2000, they travel the world, in search of adventures and the miraculouses. The three of them have a close but complicated relationship due to the fact that Gabriel and Emilie are dating, Nathalie has feelings for him, and that she is friends with them both. This tension accumulates one night where they engage in a menage a tois. It is an event they vow to never speak of again. At the end of the summer, they have not found any miraculouses. Gabriel reaffirms his feelings for Emilie and rejects Nathalie completely.

Season 4

Love Square reversal. Adrien falls for Marinette. Slowly, they become closer and start dating. Gabriel finds out about Adrien’s feelings for Marinette. He forbids them to date, but they defy him. Gabriel tries to push Kagami onto Adrien.

Keep Felix’s discovery of Emlie’s body in Gabriel Agreste and trade with Gabriel at end of season 4 the same as ML proper.

Have Gabriel’s moral horizon event take place here along with Evolution in ML season 5 proper.

Nathalie and Gabriel’s relationship begins to crumble as he dives headfirst into madness and when she begins to question his decisions. The breaking point is when he does not leave the USB drive in the past like in ML Evolution. Nathalie declares that she will no longer help him, and states that she did everything for him because she loved him.

Adrien starts to look into his mother’s disappearance with Plagg and Ladybug’s encouragement. He discovers that his mother knew about the miraculouses.

The hints that Adrien could be a sentimonster intensify.

At the end of the season the alias rings are introduced.

Gabriel allows Adrien to stop modeling.

Flashback 4: Flashback of Gabriel and Emilie falling in love. Amelie and Colton’s rocky marriage. Same as the leaks. In 2006, Nathalie and Gabriel meet again. He says that he wants to try to find the miraculouses again, in particular the peacock miraculous. When Nathalie asks why, Gabriel answers “because it can create life”.

Season 5 

The cataclysm happens. Gabriel’s subsequent illness is explicitly shown. He loses weight due a loss of appetite and vomiting. His skin becomes pale and gangrened sores on his arm weeps black pus. By the end of the season, he has to rely on IV fluids to keep him alive.

Nathalie actively goes against Gabriel and helps Adrien in any way she can.

Felix is Argos. Events of Emotion take place. It is made clear that he is a sentimonster. It is only hinted that Kagami is one too. In addition, he leads Adrien to Emilie’s body.

Adrien find out his father is Hawkmoth,that his mother is dead, then the final truth that he himself is not human. He wrestles with the guilt of catacylsming his father. However, he does not fall into despair as predicted in Chat Blanc and Ephemeral.

Adrien makes his stand against Gabriel. Gabriel is forced to confront the fact that Adrien is no longer his perfect child.

The final battle and the reveal happens. During the final battle, Adrien pleads with his father to see reason. Gabriel is too far gone and tries to kill Adrien. Gabriel uses the miraculouses to make his wish. As mentioned in the leaks, Nathalie is sacrificed. Gabriel is shocked. This forces him to come to terms that due to his selfishness, he has lost the two most important women in his life. He makes one final wish: to sacrifice himself to bring back balance. He dies. Emilie is still dead, but Nathalie lives.

Adrien obtains his amok. Completely orphaned, he faces an uncertain future.

Flashback 5: It is 2007, Emilie has gone through three years of fertility treatments that have brought nothing but disappointment. Clinging onto her last hope, she, Gabriel, and Nathalie travel to Tibet to find the miraculouses one last time. They find the peacock and butterfly miraculous and find out that in order to create a fully functional human sentimonster, a piece of the wearer’s DNA must be bound to the amok. Emilie allows Amelie to test out the peacock miraculous first with Colt. Their son, Felix, is born healthy. Emilie binds a piece of her hair to a photograph of herself as a baby for the amok, and creates the sentibryo that will become Adrien. She magically implants it in herself to carry out a natural pregnancy. However not long after, she begins to miscarry. Desperate, she dons the peacock miraculous. The power she uses saves the pregnancy, but causes the miraculous to become damaged. Adrien is born in 2008. As the years pass, Emilie grows ill and falls into a coma.

[twisted-art-wounders]

If you could have your YGO/ML AU character reenact an episode of Miraculous, which would it be?

I got a few: Syren, Reflekdol, Oni-chan, Silencer, Chat Blanc, Hack-san, Wishmaker to name a few.

[acuteobserv4tion]

Did they really write Luka out of the show so they wouldn't have to deal with him knowing the main characters' secret identities? Please tell me that's not what happened. It seems like they're wasting Alya. Please don't tell me they fully wasted snake boy. He wasn't my favorite, but his position holds so much potential for drama as well as comedy.

Update:

I just watched the episode. That's exactly what they did. What is even the point of the magical charms? Why can't Luka be the one for our heroes to confide in? Especially since they're messing up Alya. She's such a flip-flop now, only there to push what the writers want on a whim instead of what the situation demands of her character.

Luka could be the one Adrien confides in, too. Especially since Fu didn't do diddly squat with talking to Adrien in Syren or Party Crasher. Does this count as ml writing salt? Now I'm sad. I wanna play minecraft

On the bright side, Penny's back! Woohoo

You're too good for them.