#ml frozer

[bittersweetresilience]

Adrien Agreste and Borderline Personality Disorder

DISCLAIMER: I've been a bit low on spoons this week, so I haven't gathered as much evidence as I probably could have. Also, I am but a humble student in clinical psychology. This is mainly a thought compilation for @moonieratty!

To introduce the topic, without going into it too much, personality is described by features and behavioral patterns, or traits, consistent across situations and across time. Personality disorders are therefore enduring patterns of highly maladaptive traits evaluated in personal and sociocultural context (Dozois, 2019, p. 290).

Like other disorders, personality disorders have diagnostic criteria. The DSM is used primarily for diagnosis in the US and Canada while the ICD is used more widely in Europe and other places. I'm more familiar with the DSM, but I've included a brief section on the ICD to be comprehensive. It ended up a bit longer than anticipated, so let's go below the cut. Warning for discussions of abuse, self harm, and suicide, and a brief mention of substance use.

Overview of Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is prevalent in a small percentage of the population, about 1-2% by varying estimates, and is characterized by instability across domains of emotions, identity, interpersonal relationships, and behavior. Its onset is usually in late adolescence or early adulthood and symptoms may diminish with age, after one's thirties or forties, especially with therapeutic intervention. Along with ASPD, it has been the focus of a lot of clinical research; it is unfortunately associated with high rates of non-suicidal self-injury and suicide (APA, 2022, pp. 754–755; Dozois, 2019, pp. 308–309).

Etiological factors for BPD include both biological and environmental disturbances. Of note to our discussion is the heightened risk for BPD in cases of child abuse or neglect, as well as growing up with another family member with a serious mental health condition (NHS, 2022). It's been well established that Gabriel is emotionally neglectful if not outright abusive toward Adrien in multiple ways, so this is a clear risk factor. In addition, although I won't argue definitively for Gabriel having a psychological condition, he did keep Emilie's body in the basement, so there is clearly some kind of disturbance going on.

From a cognitive-behavioral perspective, Linehan argues that BPD stems from families who consistently invalidate childhood emotional experiences and "oversimplify the ease with which life's problems can be solved," which may cause children to learn to seek attention and communicate with others through emotional outbursts (Dozois, 2019, p. 297). This rings true for Adrien and Gabriel as well.

I have to apologize for my son, Ladybug, he's like his mother. Way too overly dramatic. (Jackady)

It doesn't seem like this is the first time Gabriel has thought this, and labeling an emotional reaction as being overly dramatic is very much invalidation of it. As for emotional outbursts, Adrien has had quite a few, mostly as Chat Noir. More on this later.

To round out this first section, attachment theory proposes a connection between poor parent-child attachments and BPD relationship difficulties. Specifically, maladaptive behavior in relationships may stem from childhood development of an anxious-ambivalent attachment style, where intense fears of abandonment interfere with a strong desire for intimacy (Dozois, 2019, p. 310). You can clearly see this in Chat Noir's relationship with Ladybug, and I'm sure other people have discussed Adrien's attachment style more in depth, but suffice to say I think this is an apt description.

Argument from DSM-5-TR

In the DSM, personality disorders are primarily diagnosed on a categorical model. There are a few general criteria which I won't be going into, but I will highlight that personality disorders are stable and pervasive, and would be diagnosed only if they were leading to significant distress or dysfunction. Adrien's mental state is not great, so the latter shouldn't be a problem, but this show does not always pay attention to consistency, so I'm going to be speculating some. Everything in this section is cited to the relevant DSM entry unless otherwise stated.

The DSM characterizes BPD with instability in relationships, self image, and affects, as well as marked impulsivity. It has no exclusion criteria, so BPD can be and frequently is comorbid with other disorders like mood disorders, PTSD, and ADHD. Of the below criteria, five need to be met in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Hey, where're you going? . . . So you're allowed to know her true identity, but I'm not? (Syren)

You're not really replacing me with a turtle, are you? (Anansi)

A lot of people have delved into Adrien's abandonment issues, which feature most prominently in his relationship with Ladybug. His fears of being replaced result in him seeking reassurance from Ladybug, and he can lash out if he does not receive the response he hopes for. Ladybug is his world, and he wants to be hers, so anything infringing on that feels to him like a threat of being abandoned, and he does not like it very much.

Impulsive behaviors like giving up his ring can be interpreted under this lens: he can avoid abandonment by doing the abandoning first. Then it will be him leaving, and not the other way around.

I also interpret Adrien's nightmare (Le Marchand de Sable) as being a fear of being alone as much as it is a fear of being trapped.

Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

We'll be united, more powerful and free. We'll defeat Hawk Moth, then we can both run away to an island! Far away from everything. We will live off nothing but fruits, and we will have a little pet hamster and we will name it— (Le Patineur)

I just can't do this anymore. I give up… on everything. Even you . . . If I become Chat Noir again, Ladybug will just end up rejecting me, over and over. (Kuro Neko)

Even though Adrien mostly keeps his head on straight regarding what he's owed and not owed by other people, his relationship with Ladybug is full of highs and lows. He thinks Ladybug is the most amazing girl, but this can recoil quickly into feeling as though Ladybug doesn't care about him enough or isn't meeting his needs.

Furthermore, he developed this idealization of Ladybug as a potential lover or caregiver at one of their first meetings (Cœur de Pierre), and continually sought to spend time together and share the intimate details of their secret identities early on. These are all common to individuals with BPD, as is the switch from idealization to feeling as if the other person "does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough." Ladybug is the only person Adrien consistently projects this instability and intensity on, which might be something interesting to explore.

Identity disturbance: unstable self image or sense of self

When I was a kid, I always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be! (Exauceur)

But, does that mean Chat Noir is who I really am? Deep down inside? (Kuro Neko)

With all the secret identities, it isn't surprising that Adrien fits this criterion, but canon even explicitly draws a link between Adrien's unstable sense of self and his childhood experiences. He doesn't know who he is, and he distracts from this by being Chat Noir, only to struggle even more when he feels useless and underlooked as his hero self. His behavior shifts dramatically between trying to prove himself with grand gestures and refusing to participate or lashing out. There is definitely something to discuss on this front.

Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas

Giving you some extra time . . . I trust you to bring me back, m'lady. (Gamer 2.0)

There are only two liars left in Paris and one of them knows the ultimate way to catch her attention . . . Crazy about you, m'lady. (Mensonge)

This is walking a thin line between impulsivity and suicidal behavior, which would be excluded from this criterion, but I'll list self sacrifice here because I can see an argument for Chat Noir's impulsive behaviors being out of love or the desire to be useful. There may still be some self injurious intent or euphoria, but Chat Noir does have faith in Ladybug to bring him back eventually. Nevertheless, this is impulsive and unhealthy. Chat Noir jumps too quickly to this option to have thought it through.

I can't think of another area, because Adrien isn't old enough for reckless driving, spending, substance use, or sex. This is also a kids' show. Just presenting these options for fanfiction writers out there.

Recurrent suicidal or self mutilating behavior, gestures, or threats

I... I don't know what to do! (Chat Blanc)

This is all our fault . . . Cataclysm. (Culpabysse)

By itself, what happened in Chat Blanc would not be solid evidence, as that was an unprecedentedly traumatic situation. Combined with Culpabysse, though, there is a strong case to be made for at least passive suicidality for this to be able to come up as an option.

You could also interpret the self sacrifice in this category. Suicidal behavior in individuals with BPD is often preempted by fears of rejection or abandonment, so an interesting analysis could be made on this front.

Affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood

He's still only thinking of himself! I just want this terrible day to be over and done with! I hate Christmas! (Pire Noël)

Sorry! Sorry! I didn't mean to make you so mad. I get it. You're sick of me . . . No one can help me, Kagami. (Glaciator 2)

Adrien's prolonged episodes of anger and despair reflect a high reactivity to emotional stressors, especially interpersonal ones. In general, he just doesn't feel very well unless something is actively bringing him joy. Most of his outbursts are brief, though, and I will discuss them as part of a later criterion.

Chronic feelings of emptiness

I'm not Adrien, so I wouldn't know if this is the case, but I can say he has experienced at least one depressive episode (Kuro Neko) and emptiness would not be unfamiliar. You can look at him and decide.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger

How was your amazing evening with your "friends"? . . . What do you think? (Glaciator)

Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care! (Syren)

A two-person plan?! There's only one two-person plan, and that's Ladybug and me! (Sentibulleur)

Give me a break, Miss "I can't even come up with a superhero name"! (Hack-San)

Anger in individuals with BPD can manifest as bitterness, sarcasm, or recurrent verbal outbursts, which Chat Noir absolutely exemplifies. These outbursts are often followed by feelings of shame or guilt and contribute to a feeling of being bad. Chat Noir apologizes after being harsh in Glaciator, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt badly about the other times. Again, these outbursts are often precipitated by interpersonal fears and perceived threats of abandonment. Unlike other symptoms, this specific one tends to be unique to BPD.

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociation

I cannot recall any evidence for this but headcanon away, my friends.

All in all, I think Adrien has a strong case for BPD presentation according to the DSM. Canon is not always consistent, but I think it presents an interesting and mostly coherent narrative for this lens. From this perspective, Adrien's behavior reflects a deep intolerance of being alone and a dependence on other people to define the self.

As a corollary, BPD behavioral patterns are frequently linked to self sabotage and self undermining right when a goal is about to be realized, which could manifest as dropping out of school right before graduating or ending a relationship when it seems to be going well. Food for thought. Individuals with BPD may also feel more secure with transitional objects like pets than with interpersonal relationships, which could reflect in Adrien's relationship with Plagg.

To add some subjective understanding to this clinical mumbo jumbo, I've added a source of genuine BPD experiences below (Mind, 2022).

Argument from ICD-11

With the release of the ICD-11, a dimensional model for diagnosis of personality disorders became the new standard. What this means is that individuals are no longer labeled as having 'histrionic' or 'dependent' or, indeed, 'borderline' personality disorders, but are rather assessed as having any form of personality disorder on a sliding scale of severity and with trait domain specifiers (Swales, 2022). To put it more simply, people are diagnosed only with a general personality disorder or personality difficulty which can be optionally specified as deviating on one of the personality traits in the Big Five model, which is well established in personality psychology.

This move has several benefits. Stigmatization related to particular personality disorders can be reduced, and differential diagnosis and comorbidity between personality disorders becomes irrelevant. However, people retain access to treatment and support. Evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavior therapy are particularly well established and crucial for BPD; for this pragmatic purpose, the ICD contains one additional specifier for borderline pattern personality disorder (Bach et al., 2022; Swales, 2022).

The DSM and ICD are designed to be compatible with each other in many ways, and in this case, the borderline specifier in the ICD is directly lifted from the criterion of the DSM (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5). Based on our previous discussion, Adrien would be equally qualified for a diagnosis in France. I would likely describe his personality disorder with moderate severity, where multiple areas of functioning are affected and self harming behaviors may be present, but not all areas or relationships may be equally impacted and traits are not as rigid and inflexible (WHO, 2023, 6D10.0–6D10.2).

Interestingly, the ICD includes three additional manifestations of borderline pattern which are optional and may vary across time (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5).

A view of the self as inadequate, bad, guilty, disgusting, and contemptible

An experience of the self as profoundly different and isolated from other people; a painful sense of alienation and pervasive loneliness

Proneness to rejection hypersensitivity; problems in establishing and maintaining appropriate levels of trust in relationships; frequent misinterpretation of social signals

I'm fascinated by the number of adjectives in here. I simplified very slightly, as I did with the DSM criteria, but I had to keep all these adjectives. Anyway, I won't elaborate for too many more paragraphs, so let's say sentimonster moment and leave it at that. I will spare you my mirrored Félix essay. For now.

Qualifications and Limitations

First of all, Adrien is a teenager. The distinguishing factor between a personality disorder and regular adolescent difficulties would be longevity and identity concerns beyond his developmental phase (APA, 2022, p. 758). Second of all, Adrien has a uniquely terrible home life and magical problems. Some of his behaviors could be normal considering his experiences and sociocultural context, and this matters when it comes to psychological evaluation. Take everything with a grain of salt!

More generally, the categorical model of the DSM has several issues, not to mention diagnostic issues related to culture, gender, and stigma. Some but not all of these issues are addressed by the dimensional model it includes in a later section, which shares theoretical foundations with the model of personality disorders in the ICD. Even so, issues remain. Diagnosis, access to treatment, and political statements are intrinsically linked in complex ways. I won't get into all of the nuances, but be safe, remember this is a fictional character, and keep an open mind.

REFERENCES:

American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.). https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425787

Bach, B., Kramer, U., Doering, S., di Giacomo, E., Hutsebaut, J., Kaera, A., De Panfilis, C., Schmahl, C., Swales, M., Taubner, S., & Renneberg, B. (2022). The ICD-11 classification of personality disorders: A European perspective on challenges and opportunities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Emotion Dysregulation, 9(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40479-022-00182-0

Dozois, D. J. A. (2019). Abnormal psychology: Perspectives (6th ed.). Pearson.

Mind. (2022, September). What does BPD feel like? https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/experiences-of-bpd/

National Health Service. (2022, November 4). Causes - Borderline personality disorder. https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/causes/

Swales, M. A. (2022). Personality disorder diagnoses in ICD-11: Transforming conceptualisations and practice. Clinical Psychology in Europe, 4(Special Issue). https://doi.org/10.32872/cpe.9635

World Health Organization. (2023). International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (11th ed.). https://icd.who.int/

[character-fan19]

Optimizing Viewing Experience for Love Square Shippers

You guys have previously seen me make a post on the love square screen time records based on the data I collected on how much screen time each love square ship has in each episode and special and in each season exactly and now we're going to be putting that data to more practical use and using it to figure out what are the best seasons, episodes and specials for shippers of certain sides of the love square to watch when binging through Miraculous.

Adrienette

You don't need to know the exact screen time for Adrienette in every season to know that season 5 is the best season for Adrienette shippers to watch. Not only is it the season with the most Adrienette screen time, but it's also the season where Adrienette finally becomes canon which is yet another plus.

For episodes that feature particularly large amounts of Adrienette screen time you can look to "Gamer" (6 min 28 sec) in season 1; "Riposte" (4 min 14 sec), "Gorizilla" (4 min 11 sec) and "Frozer" (4 min 10 sec) in season 2; "Oblivio" (9 min 3 sec) and "The Puppeteer 2" (4 min 27 sec) in season 3; "Mr. Pigeon 72" (2 min 23 sec), "Psycomedian" (2 min 19 sec) and "Simpleman" (2 min 8 sec) in season 4; and "Determination" (4 min 46 sec), "Transmission" (4 min 49 sec) and "Protection" (4 min 19 sec) in season 5.

In terms of Miraculous World specials, you're best bet is the New York Special which has 7 min 40 sec of screen time which has the whole storyline of Marinette trying remain friends with Adrien.

Ladynoir

Really you can pick any season since Ladynoir dominates all of them but the best season for Ladynoir shippers would be season 1 which not only has the most Ladynoir out of all the seasons but also has that classic Ladynoir dynamic I've seen certain Ladynoir fans crave in the later seasons: fighting villains and just being a dynamic duo in general, Cat Noir making the puns and Ladybug getting annoyed with him, those kind of stuff.

For episodes with particularly high amounts of Ladynoir check out "Stormy Weather" (6 min 7 sec), "Mr. Pigeon" (6 min 10 sec), "Horrificator" (6 min 8 sec), "Kung Food" (7 min 3 sec), "Animan" (8 min 28 sec), and "Volpina" (6 min 7 sec) in season 1; "Prime Queen" (8 min 19 sec), "The Dark Owl" (8 min 14 sec), and "Mayura" (8 min 32 sec) in season 2; "Reflekdoll" (7 min 19 sec), "Timetagger" (6 min 22 sec), and "Cat Blanc" (6 min 35 sec) in season 3; "Truth" (4 min 4 sec), "Psycomedian" (5 min 40 sec), "Furious Fu" (4 min 57 sec), "Kuro Neko" (7 min 23 sec), and "Strikeback" (4 min 14 sec) in season 4; and "Evolution" (7 min 50 sec), "Multiplication" (7 min 36 sec), and "Passion" (7 min 4 sec) in season 5.

In terms of Miraculous World specials, you can go for the New York special which has 6 min 29 sec of screen time and gives us some good Ladynoir angst with Cat Noir betraying Ladybug's trust and feeling so guilty about that he gave up his Miraculous.

Maricat

For Maricat, the season of you're choice would be season 4, even though most of the screen time there is concentrated in "Glaciator 2". This season even has the episode with the most Maricat screen time in all of the show so far, that is, "Glaciator 2".

Episodes with particularly high amounts of Maricat screen time include "Evillustrator" (2 min 17 sec) and "Gamer" (54 sec) in season 1, "Glaciator" (3 min 29 sec) and "Befana" (36 sec) in season 2, "Weredad" (3 min 57 sec) and "Kwamibuster" (44 sec) in season 3, "Sentibubbler" (1 min 24 sec) and "Glaciator 2" (8 min 14 sec) in season 4, and "Elation" (5 min 37 sec) and "Protection" (48 sec) in season 5.

Ladrien

For Ladrien shippers, the best seasons for you guys to watch are seasons 2 and 3, moreso season 2, where Ladrien was at the peak of its screen time until it dwindled into nothingness in seasons 4 and 5.

For episodes with a particularly large amount of screen time we have "Simon Says" (1 min 22 sec) and "Volpina" (1 min 23 sec) in season 1, "Riposte" (3 min 42 sec) and "Gorizilla" (3 min 58 sec) in season 2, "Oblivio" (1 min 40 sec) and "Desparada" (5 min 35 sec) in season 3, "Strikeback" (37 sec) in season 4, and "Passion" (17 sec) in season 5.

Conclusion

Well, that's it. Hope this was helpful to some love square shippers who want to binge through Miraculous.

[celestiall0tus]

Frozer Notes - All That Remained

Alright, number two in the line up of Chat's hissy fits.

So, this is like Glaciator, but I can't give as much slack given the circumstances. However, I pin this one on the writers of the show.

Up until the fight with Frozer, everything was fine. You had Adrien being a tad clueless and blatantly ignoring Kagami's advice, which she had a point. After a while, you need to learn to let go. Yes, I understand Adrien is young and kids have a hard time moving on at times, but the hints are there.

Then of course there is the fight. It honestly annoyed me to see Chat needlessly get angry. It really felt like the writers just wanted a reason to split them up, but there are different ways to do that. You know, suggesting they do some reconnaissance and then set a trap. You know, simple, right? No need to have Chat get pissy and have to just wrap things up instantly.

Personal notes, Kagami is a queen. Luka is just too perfect for my liking. It genuinely makes me laugh, but also frustrates me how they make Luka more flawless than Adrien. You know, the better second option that we don't get to see picked as they're too sensible a choice. I dunno. There's something there that's bothering me, but we shall see.

[avizare]

Adrien: The ice rink? I think I'd be too shy to go there with her by myself...

Me: *sees the look on Marinette's face* No...

Marinette: Well...

Me: Don't do it.

Marinette: Uh, I could come along-

Me: NO!

Marinette: -with you if you'd like.

Me: *throws my pizza at the TV* NO!

Adrien: You'd do that?! :D

Me: No! Please, for the love of- you both deserve a break from this, dear god in heaven...

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

To clarify, this does not mean your favorite episode, but rather, your favorite episode of this ship. Because this had to be whittled down so much to fit into the amount of spaces available for a poll, this doesn't include every Ladrien episode, so feel free to click other and put your episode in the tags!

This is for the purpose of satisfying my curiosity of ship trends in ml, so please share for a larger sample size!

Ladynoir poll

Adrinette poll

[miraculous-floconfettis]

❄️ Parallels ❄️

Frozer S02E17 // Strike Back S04E26

[princess-of-the-corner]

Re: Miraculous timeline nonsense

I'm with you, production and release order don't matter much as long as you make it make sense!

My evidence for this is MLP:FIM and 2003 Teen Titans. Neither of those shows aired in chronological order, and while I have less details on TT's production, I know certain MLP episodes were written well before ones that released before them. Both of them also pull off what ML TRIES to do and manage to be mostly episodic with a lot of continuity. This is mostly pulled off by having like. Solid season arcs that are resolved satisfyingly that they don't retcon.

So while there are a lot of episodes that are just silly hijinks that you could throw anywhere in the same season (Power Ponies, Flim and Flam episodes, etc. As well as anything with the Japanese theme song on TT03), it is still really helpful for understanding if you watch the episodes in order, and they don't release major plot points out of order---Zecora isn't appearing in episodes before her introduction, Old friends like Coloratura or Moondancer have reasons for not being around, the CMCs have steady continuity between all their episodes even within a singular season, etc. Same logic is applicable in TT03.

ML used to be similar I think. Seasons 1-3 were really good about it (Chloe's whole drama is in the correct order as the biggest example). 4-5 started dropping off with stuff like Marinette apparently not having a functional brain in the finale, but they were mostly pretty okay. Season 6 sounds fucked though.

See it's

Sometimes not having an order works. Back in Season 1, for example, there was rarely an instance where no order caused a problem. Off the top of my head, outside of the obvious with Origins and Volpina, the only thing I can think of was that Pixelator introduced Jagged and had him check into the hotel so it had to come before Guitar Villain where he's just there and already in the hotel.

But going forward from Season 2 we had a lot more introductions of things. New Heroes and the Power Up Potions made sure to say X episode comes before Y. Like Frozer included both Rena and the potions and the latter was introduced in Syren where Rena also appeared, so the order is Sapotis -> Syren -> Frozer.

Some episodes included none of these things and could be anywhere, but for the most part there was an implied order.

And sure. You /can/ make assumptions on some things. When Season 3 was happening we saw both Pegasus and Viperion in Party Crasher before we saw their debut episodes, so we just assume 'ah watched it out of order'.

But that's the thing! There is an order!

[imthepunchlord]

Do you think Gabriel is a better character than Adrien?

No, honestly, ML over all doesn't have any "good" characters. And it's largely due to their writing.

They either have characters hop between two extremes and they have those two extremes exist at the same time like Gabriel "I love my son" to "HAHAHA! I'M GOING TO CHUCK MY SON ACROSS PARIS!" or "Chloe the Hero!" to "Chloe the Villain!" or Alya "Marinette I'm your best friend, here to support you, you can trust me with your secret and I will keep things secretive" to "I'm Lila's best friend, you're just being jealous, and hey, Nino, I gotta tell you something".

Or characters have the issue of just being stagnant and they just don't do anything with them, which hey, there's consistency at least, but you're kinda boring as a character cause nothing changes or is done with you, best examples being Adrien and Luka. But we can appreciate consistency so thumbs up?

Or characters are a pinball that writers will fire at random to meet their needs in certain eps so there is zero consistency in their characterization. Best and biggest example is Kagami. Riptose introduces her as someone overly dedicated, no nonsense, competitive, doesn't like her time wasted, and holding herself to a very high standard. Frozer she's a bold romantic, who is still willing to pursue Adrien despite him saying he wants to pursue his initial crush and wasted her time (Riptose Kagami would've slammed the door on his hand). Then Animaestro she's a more subtle Chloe, purposely acting out to make Marinette jealous and show off her close ties with Adrien. Then Ikari Gozen she's all "I want to befriend Marinette but she's initially hostile/wary of me why?".

Lastly, there's the plot device, best and biggest example is Lila, who can mold the narrative to her needs that it throws logic out the window and she only exists when necessary.

So is Gabriel better than Adrien?

No.

Not by a longshot. He's bad by different means.

Adrien suffers by being stagnant, and by making choices that are clearly bad and should be called out, made to be a lesson, or give him some form of consequence, but aren't cause he's not meant to grow as a character.

Gabriel is bad with his inconsistency. Between his feelings of his son, between how we're supposed to feel for him which they do try to play the pity card sometime but he's also an active eager terrorist, between whether he's a joke villain to laugh at or if he's a more serious villain to take seriously. The latter of which is especially hard cause he's an idiot. Dude had freaking time traveling power and he stilled messed it up.

Gabriel I'd probably say is the most embarrassing part of ML simply by the extremes of his portrayal as a villain, cause he's meant to be that idiotic Saturday morning villain to laugh at, but he's also meant to be the big scary force that you're to take very seriously.

It's very rare to get these two to mix, and ML's crew are not skilled enough to do so, leaving Gabriel as a threat you can't take seriously, one that stuck around for far too long, and is someone you don't feel pity for. And his ending is just irritating.

Much like Chloe, with Gabriel they should've just picked a lane in what sort of villain he is.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale’s Top Ten: Least favorite episodes of Miraculous Ladybug (as of season 5)

With Season 5 finished and my posting of my top 10 favorite episodes, it’s time I crank the meter the other way. Now some rules

1. Like always this is my personal opinion, and if you liked these episodes, that’s great. I would love to hear your reasoning

2. I will be judging them SOLELY of what was shown in the episode, not by any leaks that came out before or after. I’m solely judging on what is seen and confirmed

3. Word of warning, I will be pretty vicious with my critiques. Also profanities will be thrown.

Now before I go into them, I should give some congratulations to some episodes no longer in my bottom 10

Captain Hardrock: You are still a lame episode, but not the worst you are actually decent in comparison to some of these.

Stormy weather 2.0: Clip shows still are awful, but there are worst things

Frozer: In the grand scheme of things this episode really wasn’t important and there are worst character writing

___________________________________________

10.Sole Crusher

Revisiting this, it really isn’t a good episode for ML. I don’t know what was more Shoehorned in, Zoe’s character arc of replacing Chloé or the lucky charm.

It also makes little sense that Marinette would be the one pushing for Zoe considering her experience with Chloé and her family (especially after Season 5 revealed her trauma).

Now Zoe isn’t a bad character, but she will always be seen as the replacement Good bee, and she deserves better writing.

Honestly it could be argued Queen banana should be here, but that episode is too much of a s***post that I get more enjoyment out of it. This is trying to play this straight and it don’t feel right.

9. Qilin

This episode has a some things going for it, great akuma design, decent action. But it also has a ton going against it. It’s in a series of episodes I like to call “Thomas’ gets political” and I will tell you this, he sucks at it.

I would try and explain further but I am aware I would butcher the topic, all that should be said is, racism tackled poorly and Marinette says she will pay for a ticket that her mother didn’t deserve to get in the first place.

Also the animation looks off in the episode, it just looks so bleh. 

8. Migration

Remember that whole reveal that Luka knows both Ladybug’s and chat noir’s identities and how he kept that to himself?

Well that FINALLY gets addressed. And are Ladybug and chat noir mad at him? No. No consequences for him.

The whole episode acts like he is such an important character but this is one of 2 episodes he’s in where he has more than 2 lines.

Then he gets to travel the world with his dad because monarch found out he knows.

Kagami got akumatized twice and she knew Ladybug’s identity, step up your game Luka.

Also the fake out with Rose was bulls*** and everyone knows it.

Also the entire episode had everyone but Luka lacking brain cells.

I don’t rank it lower because while it annoyed me greatly, there are worse offenders on the list.

7. Animaestro

Astruc complains for 22 minutes that nobody cares about him anymore.

Also Marinette teams up with her bully which after watching Derision, WOULD BE THE LAST thing she would do.

This is the worst example of the Creator calling out the audience, There are other episodes like this but this one is the least entertaining. And if the ending of season 5 is concerned. “I’ve seen your writing, so I can FUCKING CRITIQUE IT YOU ARROGANT PIECE OF…”

Okay, I’m calm. Point being. It’s his call out the critics episode and it sucks

6. Furious Fu

I HATE Su Han.

He is a worse version of Fu in every stretch of the imagination.

The episode where Su han shows up and starts making demands is stupid. The only thing he has going for him is his fighting style which he never teaches the two people that could have needed it!

The episode isn’t lower because despite Su Han’s impact, he really doesn’t do much and he is just there to be a nag later on. Also Fu’s akuma looks dope as hell and gave Fu some slack.

5. Feast

So remember how Su han showed up in the last episode. Well he and all the other guardians were gone for over 100 years because they lost to a 4 Foot blue dog made by a hungry child.

This episode isn’t as bad as the others as a stand alone, but knowing the lore makes it sound so completely stupid. Like Fu was HAUNTED by his past and we find out it was because he was hungry when training and the guardians COULDNT handle that? All trained to fight miraculous users should they go rogue, couldn’t beat ONE DOG. The mysterious order is incompetent as heck.

It’s just so stupid. Also Fu was acting irrational af over all this didn’t help.

4.Reflekdoll

I want everyone to know how massive this is, Reflekdoll is no longer my least favorite episode.

For anyone that follows me, my SEETHING hatred of this episode is well documented.

I won’t go on about how the tropes were horribly done or ignored, how off the banter was, or even how stupid everyone is this episode. Because I’ve discussed it in length.

I will simply say, Thank God there is Passion, so if people want a GOOD kwami swap episode they can watch that one.

3. Miracle Queen

I’ve talked about this episode to death on here. But really the only flaws with it are the last half of the episode.

The drama of the first half is great. But the ass pull of a memory wipe, the clear degradation of Chloé’s character, and just the simple giving up of Hawkmoth, he could have easily still won if he pushed a bit longer. The ending was depressing but also a clear example of how the writers put themselves in a corner with no way out.

The only thing that makes it worse is Fu’s replacement (Su han) ends up being a worse teacher.

Also considering how they spent season 4 quickly getting Marinette and Adrien out of the relationships with the love rivals, even they realize it was a dumb call.

__________________________________________

2. Ephemeral

Hey, let’s make an episode to explain why Adrien can NEVER know his father is the villain.

This episode is the go to justification of the writers on why Adrien will always be sidelined. It was also the unofficial reveal of the sentimonster theory before it was said pretty much outright in season 5.

The worst akuma design. Marinette gaslighting, gate keeping chat noir at its worst.

Gabriel wins and gets his wish.

And none of it mattered and no one remembers it except I think Sass. So it was pretty much pointless.

Not even the ladrien and cute reveal could save it.

And don’t even get me started on how pointless and avoidable it is.

It’s almost funny because despite how pointless this was, it’s still better than number 1.

1. Re-creation

So many cool concepts, great designs. Marinette dropping a piano on Gabriel. So many great things. But it also had some flaws, like having Adrien sidelined, and the focus on heroes from the specials for practically no reason. But all of that could be forgivable if the ending lands…

It really shows how an AWFUL ending can fuck up everything.

Imagine having 5 seasons of fighting to stop a villain from getting the miraculous to make the wish only for him to WIN! Yes he wins. He gets to make the wish, you know the wish that was said should NEVER be used. Of all the stupid, asinine, Shark Jumping BULL SHIT. Who the fuck APPROVED THIS HORSE SHIT?!

So he gets his wish, and he gets a statue HONORING HIM. What the fuck? Adrien, who was ABUSED now sees his abuser as a hero and EVERYONE THAT KNOWS THE TRUTH IN HIS LIFE IS HIDING THE TRUTH FROM HIM. Nathalie, Marinette, Felix, Kagami. Even PLAGG!

And the whole utopia crap, everything is just perfect now, because the villain got what he wanted.

That’s a great lessons for kids! (Blatant Sarcasm)

But let’s really dig in, the ending left a LOT of things vague. And hilariously ALL OF THE POTENTIAL OUTCOMES ARE SHIT.

1. Emilie was revived and Nathalie got healed.

So Gabriel gets everything he wanted from the wish, justifying everything he did and he gets treated like a hero and another person hiding the truth from Adrien. Marinette knows everything that brought this about and is keeping that from Adrien, but is justified slightly because it could encourage Adrien to try and get his father back with a wish. Also brings up the question of who took Emile’s place.

2. Only Nathalie was healed.

Gabriel ended up with Emilie like he wanted, gets treated like a martyr, Adrien is technically an orphan, Marinette is knowingly lying to him about his father and Adrien continues to get Gaslit.

3. Emilie is revived, Nathalie is healed, and memories were altered

Gabriel’s wish basically shaped EVERYTHING how he wanted, meaning he is still in control of Adrien’s life even in death. Even his own wife. So while this removes Marinette covering for him intentionally, it just means Gabriel was so much worse.

4. Nathalie’s healed and memories altered

Gabriel gets to be with Emile and has shaped Adrien’s life even in death. Everyone basically puppeteer by him as he died. Sure he’s dead but he also retconned for his redemption, which is bullshit.

Now there are people that defend this ending/potential ending.

I’m sorry but, unless they revive Gabriel and he gets exposed, Adrien finds out the truth, and he gets held accountable for his actions. I can’t feasibly imagine this ending being good.

The writing staff aren’t going to do Anything about this, they are just going to move on to Lila as the main villain and say the Agreste plotline is over.

If they Do, do something, I’ll happily take back my words and alter my view of the episode but right now.

It’s one of the WORST season finale’s I’ve seen in my life.

[miraculus-dragon]

this just justify my dislike for the love square, adrienette, and the salty feeling over canon’s treatment of its characters. because #marinette deserves better

Quick vent about the New York special, i.e: the special that takes place in a fashion capital but hey, who cares about Marinette’s interests, hobbies, or talents so long as the love square exists, right?

[miraculous-prompts]

Take ML, your favorite video game and the last show you watched and smash them together to make a crossover AU featuring Sabine as Frozer

[notesofarichlycolorednight]

s2ep17 frozer

i think i'm just gonna list the things i liked and didn't like

i don't like how persistent and insistent adrien/chat noir is for ladybug. again, i really think it's a very scary and dangerous pattern to teach children. obviously anyone of anyone gender should respect the person they like and their boundaries, but esp teaching young boys that they need to respect young girls's boundaries and bodily autonomy (whether either of them stay that way later in life).

i did however think plagg's sad face in adrien's bag was very funny.

the creator is trying to reignite the race war between chinese ppl and japanese ppl fr /j

i'm annoyed that, like with master fu decoding the grimore, or the fact that kim swims and has a a close friend who's crushing on me, we don't get any hints that kagami fences with adrien until this episode. bc last we saw, she had been defeated and then akumatized.

i thought marinette chatting with her friends was a cute little scene, but it's kind of soured by the fact that 1) all they talk about is adrien (so it doesn't pass the bechdel test) and 2) her friends don't even listen to her when she says she thinks they're just meant to be friends

honestly, yknow, i just didn't like this episode. which is not surprise. i just didn't like the set-up or the premise. again, i think under a better writing team and creator, the love square could work. i might still be annoyed with it, but maybe i would be less annoyed if it was actually done well on a technical level.

but i don't feel any stakes or miscommunication drama. all i see is a teen boy not respecting his partner's boundaries and who doesn't listen to marinette, and a teen girl who is unable to speak to her crush at all, and barely listens to him, either. like that's just. idk basic? and it feels dumb.

once again the pacing was absolutely shot because they had to spend half the episode setting up the love square, and the introduced love interest rivals. so what does that make that? if it's a love square, and luka is connected to mareintte, and kagami is connected to adrien,,,like some sort of creature i guess. the square is the face and the off-shoots are like. ears or smth. but anyway the fact that they wasted half the episode introducing and setting up the love creature means they had to rush through everything else.

instead of like. using other episodes to establish that beforehand.

someone in a server i'm in, after reading some of my posts on this, commented that this show is like french rwby and they were so on the money with that one. like all i can think about is hbomb commenting about how they could've set up so many new characters through naturalistic storytelling and instead decided to spend half their season on a prom arc.

ml is like that but like for everything. ondine makes a brief appearance in frightingale and suddenly we're supposed to know that she and kim are so close that she confesses her love to him??? the leap the audience has to make!!!

i also just was annoyed at both marinette and adrien the whole episode bc of how they acted at the skating rink. but i won't go into that here bc i think it's more personal than an actual critique. could it have been written better, absolutely. but i don't think i would've liked it all the same.

i do feel bad for luka. it's very weird they made him the way he is. why introduce him as a potential love rival when 1) adrien isn't going to pay attention bc he will always want ladybug and 2) luka isn't even going to fight for marinette? where's the drama in that?

that does remind me tho, i did want to complain about the fact that adrien doesn't listen to kagami. like she says something and he completely ignores her! she tells him it's not his technique, and 5 seconds later, he goes, "it must be my technique." like my dude. maybe if you like. actually listened to the girls who talk to you, you'd have better chances understanding them.

and it goes the same for marinette, too. luka asks if she wants to ride the subway back together and marinette completely ignores him in favor of watching adrien leave. she doesn't even indicate she heard him. and then what does she do? nothing! she just stutters and stumbles and it goes nowhere!!

also can i just say the fact that she was like, "let's bring the whole gang next time" and then instead of listing their classmates, who have been shown to hang out together--they went to the goddamn movies last time--she lists the two they were just with, and alya and nino. which, funnily enough, pairs them off quite nicely. /sarcasm

tl;dr what is this romance doing in my superhero show lol

also now that i've started ice skating, the fact that both luka and kagami can do those moves on ice indicates way, way more practice than you would think. there's no way, based on their comments to the skating coach, that they would be able to skate that well if they did not get consistent practice. luka especially bc he lifts marinette!! adrien and marinette too. i've seen inexperienced ppl and first-timers, they are not that steady, nor that confident. even when they're with more experienced skaters. they move slow, they hang close to the wall. that was so unrealistic lmao. don't give ppl false ideas about how easy ice skating is man.

finally, this man couldn't get ppl skating?? in paris, france?? france, where adam siao him fa is from????? hello???

[burningstarfishqueen]

They’ve held this pose before.

It’s a parallel to an older confession.

It’s neither as beautiful nor in any way as successful, but back in Le Patineur poor Marinette gathers all her courage and tells Adrien how she loves… the idea of going ice skating with him again!

“You mean, just you and me?”

“You and me. Oh. No, of course not!”

Once the lightest touch of his hand was so overwhelming she couldn’t even smile naturally. She had so far to go, and she did it.

“It’s the right time. Adrien, I love you.”

[writer-rider-flirty-thirties]

Hmmm.

I think show!Adrien (as Chat) would, honestly.

show!adrien would NEVER call a woman a "bitch". movie!adrien on the other hand....

[iwasbored777]

I went through Fandom Wiki to find info about Frozer for an ask and I'm crying at the end card cuz it's super dramatic love hexagon in the centre and then you have Phillipe girlbossing/not giving a single f*ck in the background 😂😂😂😂😂

[parismystere]

sick and tired of the fandom not talking about chat noir with platinum blonde hair