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autisticandroids · 1 year ago

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i've been seeing ai takes that i actually agree with and have been saying for months get notes so i want to throw my hat into the ring.

so i think there are two main distinct problems with "ai," which exist kind of in opposition to each other. the first happens when ai is good at what it's supposed to do, and the second happens when it's bad at it.

the first is well-exemplified by ai visual art. now, there are a lot of arguments about the quality of ai visual art, about how it's soulless, or cliche, or whatever, and to those i say: do you think ai art is going to be replacing monet and picasso? do you think those pieces are going in museums? no. they are going to be replacing soulless dreck like corporate logos, the sprites for low-rent edugames, and book covers with that stupid cartoon art style made in canva. the kind of art that everyone thinks of as soulless and worthless anyway. the kind of art that keeps people with art degrees actually employed.

this is a problem of automation. while ai art certainly has its flaws and failings, the main issue with it is that it's good enough to replace crap art that no one does by choice. which is a problem of capitalism. in a society where people don't have to sell their labor to survive, machines performing labor more efficiently so humans don't have to is a boon! this is i think more obviously true for, like, manufacturing than for art - nobody wants to be the guy putting eyelets in shoes all day, and everybody needs shoes, whereas a lot of people want to draw their whole lives, and nobody needs visual art (not the way they need shoes) - but i think that it's still true that in a perfect world, ai art would be a net boon, because giving people without the skill to actually draw the ability to visualize the things they see inside their head is... good? wider access to beauty and the ability to create it is good? it's not necessary, it's not vital, but it is cool. the issue is that we live in a society where that also takes food out of people's mouths.

but the second problem is the much scarier one, imo, and it's what happens when ai is bad. in the current discourse, that's exemplified by chatgpt and other large language models. as much hand-wringing as there has been about chatgpt replacing writers, it's much worse at imitating human-written text than, say, midjourney is at imitating human-made art. it can imitate style well, which means that it can successfully replace text that has no meaningful semantic content - cover letters, online ads, clickbait articles, the kind of stuff that says nothing and exists to exist. but because it can't evaluate what's true, or even keep straight what it said thirty seconds ago, it can't meaningfully replace a human writer. it will honestly probably never be able to unless they change how they train it, because the way LLMs work is so antithetical to how language and writing actually works.

the issue is that people think it can. which means they use it to do stuff it's not equipped for. at best, what you end up with is a lot of very poorly written children's books selling on amazon for $3. this is a shitty scam, but is mostly harmless. the behind the bastards episode on this has a pretty solid description of what that looks like right now, although they also do a lot of pretty pointless fearmongering about the death of art and the death of media literacy and saving the children. (incidentally, the "comics" described demonstrate the ways in which ai art has the same weaknesses as ai text - both are incapable of consistency or narrative. it's just that visual art doesn't necessarily need those things to be useful as art, and text (often) does). like, overall, the existence of these kids book scams are bad? but they're a gnat bite.

to find the worst case scenario of LLM misuse, you don't even have to leave the amazon kindle section. you don't even have to stop looking at scam books. all you have to do is change from looking at kids books to foraging guides. i'm not exaggerating when i say that in terms of texts whose factuality has direct consequences, foraging guides are up there with building safety regulations. if a foraging guide has incorrect information in it, people who use that foraging guide will die. that's all there is to it. there is no antidote to amanita phalloides poisoning, only supportive care, and even if you survive, you will need a liver transplant.

the problem here is that sometimes it's important for text to be factually accurate. openart isn't marketed as photographic software, and even though people do use it to lie, they have also been using photoshop to do that for decades, and before that it was scissors and paintbrushes. chatgpt and its ilk are sometimes marketed as fact-finding software, search engine assistants and writing assistants. and this is dangerous. because while people have been lying intentionally for decades, the level of misinformation potentially provided by chatgpt is unprecedented. and then there are people like the foraging book scammers who aren't lying on purpose, but rather not caring about the truth content of their output. obviously this happens in real life - the kids book scam i mentioned earlier is just an update of a non-ai scam involving ghostwriters - but it's much easier to pull off, and unlike lying for personal gain, which will always happen no matter how difficult it is, lying out of laziness is motivated by, well, the ease of the lie.* if it takes fifteen minutes and a chatgpt account to pump out fake foraging books for a quick buck, people will do it.

*also part of this is how easy it is to make things look like high effort professional content - people who are lying out of laziness often do it in ways that are obviously identifiable, and LLMs might make it easier to pass basic professionalism scans.

and honestly i don't think LLMs are the biggest problem that machine learning/ai creates here. while the ai foraging books are, well, really, really bad, most of the problem content generated by chatgpt is more on the level of scam children's books. the entire time that the internet has been shitting itself about ai art and LLM's i've been pulling my hair out about the kinds of priorities people have, because corporations have been using ai to sort the resumes of job applicants for years, and it turns out the ai is racist. there are all sorts of ways machine learning algorithms have been integrated into daily life over the past decade: predictive policing, self-driving cars, and even the youtube algorithm. and all of these are much more dangerous (in most cases) than chatgpt. it makes me insane that just because ai art and LLMs happen to touch on things that most internet users are familiar with the working of, people are freaking out about it because it's the death of art or whatever, when they should have been freaking out about the robot telling the cops to kick people's faces in.

(not to mention the environmental impact of all this crap.)

#ai art #ai #chatgpt

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saijspellhart · 9 months ago

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Things I liked about the Netflix ATLA and some critiques:

Before you read. Please go watch the series, take off your blinders and keep an open mind. It’s surprisingly good. This review has spoilers.

They reordered some scenes so that emotional moments would have a larger pay off. Like getting to see and experience Aang’s relationship with Monk Gyatsu, and seeing his tribe before it was destroyed. So when he has his breakdown in the air temple with Sokka and Katara later, you really feel and understand his agony.

Azula is introduced earlier, with a story running simultaneously with the Aang’s journey but not involved with his. So she has a chance to be more fleshed out and explored before she becomes a major threat. Only time will tell if this more complicated Azula comes close to the animated one. Big shoes to fill, but not a bad start.

Fire Lord Ozai plays a more sinister and oppressive role. Not a faceless boogeyman anymore. You get to see his machinations and the cruel games he’s playing with his family, and see the emotional abuse that warps them.

Appa is adorable as fuck, and so is Momo. So well animated, such gorgeous care put into them.

Kyoshi, Kuruk, and Roku make more of an appearance. With Kyoshi narrating the prologue. And if you loved the novels you’ll see they incorporated more of Kyoshi and Kuruk’s backstory from the novels than what we saw in the animated cartoon.

The acting was competent, even if a little wonky at times. I found Sokka very endearing, I loved the kid they cast as Aang and you can tell they really tried to find a balance between serious and playful. They didn’t always hit it, but the effort was there.

Zuko was great. I think they nailed him and he had great chemistry with the actor playing Iroh.

King Bumi was great, I love how they made his internal struggles more complex. He wasn’t just a crazy old man anymore. He was a crazy old man who was weary and worn down by the horrors of loss and war. A crazy old man who struggled to reconcile that the best friend he lost is the avatar and wasn’t there for him.

I loved the costume and set design. It was like stepping into the actual world of ATLA. Cities were complex and well constructed. Every setting was incredible and the attention to detail was intense.

Zuko’s boat is full of artifacts he pilfered from the Air Nomads while hunting for the avatar.

They changed how Aang got the bison whistle so it makes more sense and fits more seamlessly into the story. It never made sense why a random peddler would be selling a bison whistle if air nomads and bison have been gone for 100 years. Not impossible for a peddler to do, but not probable. The Netflix series actually gave more meaning for the artifact and changed how Aang received it.

Emotional points in the show are now more intense and brought me to tears.

Commander Zhao is more competent and conniving, and his presence felt more dangerous and less comedic.

Sokka’s outright sexism was changed from putting girls down, to just manly machismo, talking himself up. Not gone, but not degrading. They decided to let the sexism message shine more prominently with the northern water tribe, rather than tackle it twice with Sokka too. (Sokka’s sexism being solved in one episode was never well written to begin with. And the animated series quickly forgot about it and moved on to him tackling more important issues, like his being a non bender inadequacy, his leadership journey, his physical combat journey, and him finding himself as more than just the funny sarcastic guy.) For time constraints, it was better the Netflix series did not to tackle the same problem twice, especially when you might not have the resources to give both sexism issues the gravity it deserves. By focusing the sexism problem to the northern water tribe they were able to give Katara more attention.

We got to see Katara’s water-bending go from being ultra sloppy and weak to badass. It feels like they are spending more time focusing on her developing into a warrior rather than being the mom of the group. I’m honestly not sad about it. She’s still the hope ridden, emotional glue, but now it feels like she explores that warrior side a little deeper. It felt so earned when she got the title of master at the northern water tribe finale.

The actor playing uncle Iroh nailed the role. I couldn’t think of a better live action adaptation of Iroh. I love him so much.

The shirshu looks fucking phemonal.

Koh was scary as fuck and I love it. They really nailed his horror elements. Even if I’m a little sad that they changed some things about his face stealing. (He eats faces now to steal them, rather than stealing when someone shows emotion.)

The three actresses who play Mei, Azula and Tailee actually look appropriate for their age. Since they are introduced earlier, they are clearly younger, and since this show is intended to get more seasons, the casting choice made sense as we are intended to watch these girls grow up over the course of the entire show. These actors will get older, and the characters will get more menacing and sharper. It’s great. It’s thoughtful. I love it.

We get to see Zuko’s dynamics with his crew more. And find out that he did more than just speak out against his father at that meeting. His outburst at that meeting saved an entire squad of soldiers, and they don’t even know it. Zuko feels such disdain and bitterness because of the situation, and his crew doesn’t even know why. It’s so complex, you can see how the abuse Zuko endured causes him to take out his anger on his crew, and in turn they are bitter back. And it’s this cycle, that festers. But the crew also grows with Zuko, they change and evolve as he evolves. And it’s such a delight to watch.

They could have cut the Secret Tunnel minstrels altogether, given the time constraints and that the episode was mostly fluff in season two. A fun romp, but not necessary. But the creators knew people loved the minstrels so they found a way to use them anyway. Because they knew they were special. I am thankful for that, even if they show up waaay earlier than they should.

I was honestly more sold on Sokka and Suki’s relationship in the live action. It’s was so adorkable. Do I wish it had more time to develop? Yeah, of course I love a good slow burn. But that didn’t mean it wasn’t fun as hell watching the two flirt so badly with each other. Sokka being a buffoon, and Suki overstepping and being too rough, before realizing she was being too hard.

Some Critiques:

They reordered some episode storylines to happen at the same time, and while it does bloat some episodes. it’s understandable due the episode and budget limitations. In the cartoon, during the inventor episode Katara didn’t have a lot to do, and during the freedom fighters episode Sokka didn’t have a lot to do. So they ended up combining both stories into one hour long episode in the live action, so that both Katara and Sokka would be involved in something. Is it the best? No. But it makes sense. I get it.

Katara starts off bland in the first episode and it takes a bit for her to grow into the character.

The past avatars can be a bit strong with the doom and gloom, and I wish they’d toned that back.

Koh and Heibei (I dunno how to spell the panda spirit’s name) got combined to the same episode, and Koh stole Heibei’s spotlight. Again, I understand why these got combined, but I think it could have been handled a little better and Heibei should have gotten more closure.

There should have been a ninth episode, placed between the two episode Koh storyline, and the Northern Water Tribe storyline. Why? Because the Koh storyline was really heavy and intense. And it leads right into the season finale. An extra ninth episode should have been added with a more lighthearted tone. Something to ease the tension between the two very intense storylines.

Aang should have been using a glider to flit about the temples in the first episode. But it’s not something that ruins the whole show. It was a dumb that only happens in a single episode in the season.

I really missed Momo and Appa’s presence. They appeared atleast once in every episode, but it was still sad they weren’t more of a presence. Again I understand why. They were so beautifully animated that everytime they were on screen it (without a doubt) cost the production thousands of dollars. They were generous including as many of the unique animals and creatures as they had.

I still don’t think Sokka had enough time to develop a relationship with Yue at the northern water tribe. It was rushed and contrived in the animated version, and it was rushed and contrived in this Netflix version. There also wasn’t any of the chemistry like Sokka had with Suki to make the whirlwind romance work. I never liked the romance from the original, and I wasn’t a fan of it here. But that’s ok, because it’s such a small and insignificant thing.

In conclusion most of the changes I can see made were due to budget, and episode limitations. The creators were clearly trying to bring theater-cinematic quality to what was essentially an eight hour long film. And you cannot deny that this show is stunning. Absolutely breathtaking. Most of the episodes cut were filler, and while hilarious and mostly loved by fans, were stories not as necessary in the grand scope. You could feel the love and appreciation the creators included in this series. It wasn’t soulless, it wasn’t a heartless cash grab, it wasn’t a shot for shot (thank god) but it also didn’t butcher the source material.

I understand that the animated show creators had creative differences with the live action Netflix adaptation creators. But that doesn’t mean that the Netflix series completely failed. As every fanfic writer out there knows, the original authors are not going to love what you create based on their works. Tolkien hated every adaptation of his works, HATED them. But no one is going about saying that the Lord of the Rings trilogy movies were hot garbage. A creator doesn’t have to endorse a project for it to be good.

Netflix ATLA is good, it’s not perfect. And it never was going to be perfect. The cartoon it was based on wasn’t perfect either. But the ATLA cartoon was definitely some huge shoes to fill that set a bar very high. Any adaptation was going to struggle to be just as good.

I think the Netflix adaptation was a treat and a pleasure to watch. I think people should go into it with an open mind and see that it’s not trying to replace the cartoon. It’s a love letter to the cartoon.

PS: According to behind the scenes commentary on the Nickelodeon ATLA cartoon, the reason we didn’t get a season 4 was because the creators wanted a live action film. Nickelodeon offered the original cartoon creators the option to make season 4 or to spend the budget meant for season four on a live action ATLA film. The original creators chose the live action film directed by M. Night Shamalan. They wanted a live action for their show over a 4th season. They had no idea M. night would butcher their baby with his pathetic film all those years ago.

This show was a second chance after the M. night abomination. And you know what? It’s a pretty decent adaptation. And guess what? With a resurgence of interest in the series, we are getting more animated content for the original animated series. There’s definitely something for everyone on the horizon if this succeeds.

#netflix atla #avatar the last airbender #atla #live action adaptation #live action avatar #review #my thoughts #positive #loved it #it was great #go watch it #recommendation #pros and cons #a thoughtful and positive breakdown from someone who is generally picky and pessimistic about adaptations #spoilers #many spoilers

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whereserpentswalk · 7 months ago

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God people don't remember what those early 2010s cartoons were like when watching them. Shows like gravity falls and adventure time didn't just waltz in as post apocalyptic fantasy series, they started out as just normal cartoons with hints of darker things that evolved into having complex plots.

Like, the later plot points and tone of these series were literally edgy fan theories and then they came true. The great mushroom was was a weird out there fan theory. The dimond authority was a weird out there fan theory. Stan having a brother and that brother writing the journals was a weird out there fan theory.

Like you have to understand how extremely weird as well as extremely cool this was. The fact that these were normal cartoons that evolved into having dark multi episode dramatic storylines is something that's so amazing, but gets kind of lost on people who go into it knowing what happened.

This is like if Ed Edd and Eddy was revealed to really take place in purgatory and they went on a well written dramatic arc dealing with demons.

#196 #my thougts #writing #gravity falls #adventure time #steven universe #ed edd n eddy #fan theory #nostolgia #nostalgic #nostalgia #2010s #early 2010s nostalgia #early 2010s #2010s nostalgia

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wishful-thinking64 · 3 months ago

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One Hell of an Unpopular Opinion #03

Characters like Barbie Wire, Chaz, Crimson, Octavia, and Stella only exist as plot devices to garner sympathy for other characters. _______ I knew fully well that Chaz and Crimson were going to merely be plot devices for Moxxie the more I watched Exes & Oohs. And sure enough, Chaz was killed at the end of that very episode and Crimson is yet another wacky cartoon villain that the narrative expects for you to take seriously. Both of these characters existed so that the audience could gain sympathy (or at least pity) for Moxxie being raised in a Mafia family and having been abused as a child along with being betrayed by his ex-boyfriend (who also happened to be Millie's ex-boyfriend for some reason.) Other than Moxxie's Mafia family upbringing making zero sense the more you think about it, Viv has basically done this exact backstory before in the form of Angel Dust (with the whole mobster backstory who was also abused by his father.) However, the Exes & Oohs episode and title actually stems from one of the HH mockup episodes that was originally about Charlie and Vaggie coming across Charlie's ex, Seviathan (yes, that's what Viv named him), and his sister, Helsa, while they were at a dinner party.

Now, do I think Chaz and Crimson could've had the potential to be good characters? In all honesty, no. Especially not Chaz. The guy is a harmful stereotype of pansexual people and how, "They'll sleep with anyone," which no, they won't. I'm not pansexual myself but that thought process is as gross as it is fucking stupid. The only person who I've seen even re-writing Chaz has been Loves Art23 (I mainly know her for YouTube videos being critical on Hazbin Hotel + Helluva Boss along with other shows like the disaster known as High Guardian Spice) and I think she's done a fairly good job so kudos to her for making him work. Personally, though I'm scrapping him as that gives me one less character to worry about when re-writing HB. Crimson would have to be heavily and I mean HEAVILY reworked/re-written in order for him to make any actual sense. That and I'm tired of every character having some variation of the same daddy issues in the Hellaverse. Which means he's also gonna get axed from me. Moving onto the ladies I mentioned, let's start off with Barbie Wire.

Having been foreshadowed since the pilot of I.M.P. (as seen when Tilla was still Barb's and Blitzo's older sister rather than their mother) Barbie Wire was an anticipated character by fans for years! And then her actual appearance finally happened in Unhappy Campers, an episode hated by practically everyone who saw it, and no one really cared about her showing up, other than the fact that the writers thought that having her seduce a BARELY legal adult would make for a good joke, when in reality, it only made everybody uncomfortable and several people dislike Barbie because of it. Sure, near the end of the episode she had that "emotional" scene with Blitzo that wants the viewers to feel bad for him and Barbie before she left but in the long run it didn't matter as fans barely even talk about it because of how uneventful it truly was. So, with that out of the way, would I keep Barbie Wire around for a rewrite of HB? To that I say, yes! There are several paths Barbie Wire's overall character could go in. If you're mainly sticking to canon, then what you have to work with is a former circus performer who lost her mother in a fire caused by her twin brother that left his own best friend to rot and be disabled for the rest of his life. It's very likely that this very fire, caused her to be out of a job and probably even homeless for a bit which could explain why she ended up becoming both a drug attic and a drug dealer. Homelessness is one of the few things that nobody wants to experience. It causes people to be filled with a sense of overwhelming loneliness and desperation as many of them either believe that there's nothing they can do or they do anything and everything that they can to get out of it even if that means resorting to crime. If you wanted to have her be loosely based on canon instead, you could make it to where she never learned about who started the fire and actually stuck with Blitzo well into adulthood. Have her become one of the members of I.M.P. and later down the line have her learn through someone like Fizz or maybe Cash (her and Blitzo's father) what actually went down that day. Have her be rightfully pissed off at Blitzo for screwing over multiple people along with being the one responsible for killing their mom. Anyway, let's proceed onto Stella and her daughter Octavia.

As much as the narrative wants me to hate Stella with a burning passion cause she hurts Stolas, I can't do it for multiple reasons but I'll list my top three. #01.) Stella's just as (if not even more so) stuck in this arranged loveless marriage as Stolas is. #02.) If the man I had no choice in marrying not only cheated on me with a man from one of the lowest classes in all of Hell but IN OUR OWN HOME & SHARED BEDROOM NO LESS? OH, FUCK NO!

#03.) This woman had to spend 9 months having to nourish and care for a baby inside her stomach that she had with a man that didn't even want to sleep with her. On top of that, she had to have become pregnant with Octavia when she was a young adult since current day Stolas and Stella are only in their mid 30s. I need you to let that information sink in.

In short, I can't hate Stella for loathing Viv's pathetic self insert bird twink with every fiber of her being.

Having said that, would I have Stella in my HB rewrite? Well, considering that I plan on keeping the war that happened in the bible that caused Lucifer and several angels to fall from grace, one of which being Stolas. Kind of. Allow me to elaborate, I would keep Stella as Octavia's mother but I wouldn't have her marry Stolas. I'd have her be a surrogate mother that way Stolas still gets an heir and Octavia could still exist. Speaking of Octavia...

We all know that she exists to make Stolas look like a better person as several stans of this show love to say how much of a good dad Stolas is when he isn't. He neglects Octavia frequently in favor of Blitzo and only pays attention to her when she's gone although EVEN THAT doesn't last long as shown in Seeing Stars where HE KNEW Octavia was missing on Earth but rather than ACTIVELY look for his daughter, what does he do? HE SITS THROUGH A STUPID LIVE COMEDY SHOW CAUSE BLITZO IS PERFORMING! HE COMPLETELY SIDELINES HIS OWN DAUGHTER IN FAVOR OF A LIVE COMEDY SHOW!

God, Octavia deserves so much better than to have a dad like him. I'm keeping Octavia for my HB rewrite so that this poor girl not only realizes how much of a bastard her dad is but eventually gets the found family she deserves. I don't plan for it to be through I.M.P. though. In closing, the characters of this show deserve to be better developed but especially the women in them.

_______

That was a long one to get through cause it's been on my mind for a while. Thank you all for reading through it and bye for now everybody!

#vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss imps #helluva boss criticism #hellaverse #hellaverse critical #anti vivziepop #anti stolas

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televised-uhhh-nerdistry · 7 months ago

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Cartoon rec of the week:

Craig of the Creek

I haven't seen enough people talking about the show, so I'm mentioning it here. Absolute 10/10 cartoon. Just three kids, running 'round, making friends, running their own semi-sustainable community in the forest (there are some concerns about how much trash they leave there but ultimately they're better than most adults). Literally such a dream. they encourage each other to be emotionally healthy and they protect each other from "danger". Like they'll help each other achieve their dreams as they come (and new dreams show up pretty often because they're young kids).

And they're so funny! Like genuinely these kids are so earnest and intelligent and incredibly humorous and full of heart! They have full lives and they live them to the fullest out in nature after school, on the weekends, and in the summer. It's one of the best representations of found family I have ever seen in a cartoon, and I absolutely love it.

Also several of the writers behind the show are POC and queer (I think the head writers are all Black but I could be wrong), so you know that it was written well and the representation is awesome like I know that it should absolutely go without saying, but representation is much more than just showing BIPOC people on screen, and in terms of cartoons I haven't seen that many shows understanding that fact except maybe the Proud Family, Fat Albert, and a few others whose names will return to me once I've taken my ADHD meds. But the point is that Craig of the Creek gets it right. Most of the characters throughout the show (from what I've seen) are BIPOC, and you can tell that there are caring nods to BIPOC communities (primarily Black American communities), and more than that, that the writers know what they're talking about and are deeply familiar with and are a part of those communities. Craig, the titular character, is a young Black boy, and his family are middle class and ultimately very successful Black people. Kelsey (one of the main characters) is Jewish and Polish, and written with more complexity than having a one and done Hanukah celebration. The Creek's main business, a trading post, is run by Kit, a young Black girl with a love for economy and business. And many other characters are racial or ethnic minorities as well, and it warms my heart to see these characters done justice time and time again.

There's great subtle queer rep too, and you can tell it wasn't written just for the sake of representation, like it was thought out and intentional, and it worked beautifully. There are queer witches, and there are no labels applied to them, they're just allowed to exist with no explanations, happily in love with one another. There's a non-binary character later in the series (I'm only like 10 episodes in so I haven't met them yet but I've read amazing things about them). Kelsey also apparently identifies as a lesbian later in the series (I say "apparently" because I haven't done much reading so as to avoid spoilers, not because I am discounting her identity). On top of that, JP (one of the main characters) has a sister who is dating another girl.

There's also a significant amount of body positivity in the show, at least far than I've seen elsewhere. Not only do they openly say "all bodies are beautiful" and follow up on that by defending one another, there's also very little need to defend one another, because there's a very unspoken and deep respect in the Creek for things like body type, skin colour, disabilities, and so on. The kids of the creek, and their grown ups, are all different body types, and given their penchant for community and uplifting one another, it's no wonder they all seem confident in their bodies.

Not to mention the disability representation. There is a character later on in the series who is Black and deaf, and he not only speaks in Sign Language, but in Black American Sign Language. In addition, though unconfirmed, many of the kids in the creek embody aspects of various neurotypes. For example, the three main characters, Craig, Kelsey, and JP all come across as neurodivergent, with special interests, neurodivergent ways of thinking, and so on. Some have speculated that JP has Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which is a disability often comorbid with ADHD. Not to mention that all the kids in the creek embody different special interests, most of which would be considered weird or frowned upon in everyday society, but that are given the opportunity to shine and flourish in the Creek's accepting culture.

Take the Horse Girls for example, a small clique of girls who roleplay as horses in a pasture near the Creek, and of course many of their behaviours are played as jokes, but ultimately they are accepted and involved in many adventures because of their unique interests and abilities which are ultimately how they aid the rest of the Creek. Every kid is a useful and accepted part of the Creek, with the exception of the ranger scout kids, who are essentially the same as cops, who are often exploitative, rude, and disruptive to the community as a whole.

Ultimately, the show is one of love, friendship, community, and acknowledging differences as a natural and helpful part of life. On top of that, it's not copaganda! What more could you want?

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heloflor · 3 months ago

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Ok so last week I saw the videos/screenshots talking about fop Peri which got me a bit curious about this show, and after seeing “Battle of the Dimmsonian” and especially the Cosmo-Wanda-Peri part of “Lost in Fairy World” (there’s someone on Tumblr posting clips of all the Peri-centric moments since his debut), I was genuinely impressed with how the characters were written and I wanted to gush about them! On top of doing some overanalysis of those characters. Btw I also saw some clips from “Operation: Birthday Takeback” (again the Cosmo-Wanda-Peri side of it).

So here’s a post talking about Cosmo and Wanda’s relationship with Peri, Peri in general, Peri with Dev and a few other random thoughts about the early episodes given this made me start to watch the show (ended up making it its own post), though I haven’t gone far yet (I’m on like episode 5-6, which is episode 4a or something). On that note, take what I say in this post with a HUGE grain of salt since I don’t have the full context for Dev’s character arc.

Tl;Dr: The Fairywinkle-Cosmas are adorable, loving but also realistic in their portrayal.

Peri is the definition of “20 years-old who recently left his parents’ home” and I love him for it.

Dev and Peri are a terrible match due to Peri’s inexperience, Dev not taking him seriously, and Dev’s daddy issues making it hard for him to connect with a fairy who has loving parents.

(Btw on top of the characters moments, what made me start to watch the show is also the fact it’s apparently incredibly wholesome and fun + apparently the writers of “Infi//nity Train” worked on it (and if that’s true it’s crazy how nobody is talking about it to bring in new fans; I mean remember when the Duck//tales reboot came out and everyone pointed out how the writers of Gra//vity Falls worked on it? We should do the same thing here, at least again if it’s true) + Hartman isn’t involved and it’s hilarious how the creator of those characters not getting involved is a good thing)

Oh and spoilers for “Battle of the Dimmsonian”, “Lost in Fairy World” and “Operation: Birthday Takeback”! (4.6k Words below)

Ok so “Lost In Fairy World” and why I love its characters’ writing so much. I’m actually going to start by the lesson at the end and build from there as it seems like the best way to get a train of thought going.

So the lesson of the episode for me was basically a “new hire vs experienced employees” with a second layer added due to the three fairies being family, and that’s already something I really appreciate!

By the end of the episode, Cosmo and Wanda learn that they need to back off and let Peri do his thing. He’s an adult, he got hired for a reason, let him do his own trial and error and learn his own way. But at the same time, Peri shouldn’t be afraid to ask for help or advice if he needs it, the more experienced people are here for that! And again, there’s the family layer to that discussion that I really like, with Cosmo and Wanda being particularly clingy bc Peri is their son, while Peri is particularly embarrassed to ask them for help because they’re his parents, probably not helped by the fact he likely very recently left their home and seeks his independence.

And that’s another thing I absolutely love after watching this episode and “Battle of the Dimmsonian”, with “Operation: Birthday Takeback” adding to it as well: Honestly, Peri has to be one of the most realistic depictions of “20-something who just left his parents’ house” I’ve ever seen (yeah I don’t watch much stuff outside of cartoons, working on that). They somehow managed to make him very clearly be an adult with adult responsibilities, all the while giving him a level of inexperience and immaturity that reminds you he’s still young.

Giving some examples, the way he talks in general makes it obvious he’s an adult, and when introducing himself to Dev + telling him he can’t visit Fairy World in “Lost in Fairy World”, he has that suave put-together personality to himself. But at the same time this suave personality crumbles the second Dev opens him mouth.

And on top of that, Peri’s one day into his job and his already exhausted, spends the entirety of his debut episode worrying about what his parents will think of his career choice, and in stressful situations tends to turn towards others for help very quickly (reading Da Rules, low-key panicking a bit and looking at his parents in “Lost in Fairy World”, hiding when facing Vicky, moments like those).

There are also those moments where he either acts or sounds childish (with his voice even getting a bit higher), like when Wanda asks if he has a godkid plus him hiding behind his wand right before that, and earlier on when he didn’t want them to see him, the “my wand is missing” line and tracker line in “Lost in Fairy World” (the “sowwy” when telling them his tracker is off tho), the ending of this episode as well when he apologizes to them, also when his parents tell Jorgen that Peri did nothing wrong and he lets them take the fall, or that moment in “Operation: Birthday Takeback” when he goes “moooom” with a whine.

That’s actually something I absolutely love about those interactions, and why I find them realistic. It could have been SO easy for the writers to make Peri act like an adult all the time while his parents are the coddling cringy kind that make him look like a kid. But instead, it comes from both sides. You can clearly tell from how Cosmo and Wanda act that he’s their baby boy, but you can also see from Peri’s dialogues and actions that they are his parents. And I am so happy they took this direction!

So yeah, Peri is the most “young adult who just left the nest” ever and I absolutely adore this characterization. He’s an adult with a job and responsibilities, but he’s still young and can find himself relying on his parents or talking to them in a childish way. Such good character work!

Another thing I love about their dynamic that we see very well in “Lost in Fairy World” is just how much those three love each other. That’s something I did hear about this show, that it was a lot more fun and sweet (compared to the og which could be very cruel and cynical when it wanted), and you can really see it with those three.

With Cosmo and Wanda taking over Peri’s job, you can tell they’re not doing it out of any malice or feeling that Peri can’t do it. Heck if you pause at the scene where Peri tells Dev he can’t go to Fairy World, after he’s done talking and right before Cosmo takes another picture, you can see Cosmo and Wanda looking at Peri with the biggest smile (and it’s adorable!). And it’s the same with the rest of the episode. If anything, they’re so used to taking care of godkids that they just do it out of habit, without realizing they’re causing an issue.

Heck I’d even theorize that their behavior is partly due to their time with Timmy, hence it being a force of habit. For a long time (possibly 50 years if that one secret wish is canon), Poof/Peri was with his parents helping with Timmy, but he wouldn’t do much besides granting wishes. Poof couldn’t talk, so most of the time he’d just stand there while his parents did all of the talking. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of this was the reason why Cosmo and Wanda are straight up talking over Peri in “Lost in Fairy World”, they just got used to do so when taking care of Timmy and are now getting back into this habit.

On top of that, Cosmo and Wanda are just excited to finally be with their son again after their 10 thousand years-long vacation. Plus, when Peri does call them out, by the end of it they acknowledge their mistake and apologize, promising to back off. And while they remain cuddly towards him, from the looks of it they did stop coming in-between Peri and Dev, letting their son do his thing.

Also worth noting that, despite doting on Peri, they still very much talk to him like they would talk to an adult. Yes they hug him a lot (and I mean a lot) and call him pet names, and they were definitely excited to see him again in “Lost in Fairy World”, but other than that they clearly respect him as an adult, listening to him and trusting him. I’m not going to list examples because it’s basically every dialogue in which they don’t “baby” him. That being said I feel like “Operation: Birthday Takeback” displays it the best from what I’ve seen of it.

As for Peri’s side on this, he’s annoyed by his parents stepping in but it’s obvious he doesn’t hate them at all, quite the opposite. He just wants them to take him seriously as an adult, which is understandable. Also the fact he isn’t afraid to call them out is a very good sign. On that note, I love how when telling them his tracker is off, he actually apologizes (though he doesn’t have to, his reasoning for turning it off is understandable, and I appreciate he tells them those reasons!).

Also I live for that scene at the beginning of “Operation: Birthday Takeback” when his parents ask for a tour of the house (btw love Wanda telling him they’re ready to get him out of there if needed), they show interest in his suggestion, which makes Peri smile sheepishly. It’s such a cute moment and to me really shows Peri wanting to be seen as an adult and enjoying being seen that way by them, but also how he’s clearly attached to them! Idk it’s just a very cute moment! I love those three!

Also kind of a last minute addition before moving to Peri and Dev but looking at “Operation: Birthday Takeback”, I can’t help but laugh at how at the very beginning, the second the godkids are doing their own thing, Cosmo and Wanda throw themselves at their son. It’s very sweet. Also I love the implication that they’re here bc they’re Hazel’s godparents and need to stay with her, but also they really wanted any excuse to see their son!

And the reason why I say last minute addition is because this made me realize that Cosmo and Wanda do act pretty differently towards the godkids compared to Peri, which I find to be an interesting detail that makes their characters more complex in a way. Like yes, Cosmo and Wanda are very parental types, but to an extent you can see a line between them being with their godkids, who they are here to mentor and steer in the right direction for a few months until the kid is happy, and them being with their son, who they raised from infancy and isn’t going anywhere.

Now that’s not to say that Cosmo and Wanda don’t love their godkids, it’s obvious how much they adore those kids and care for them and probably remember each and every single one of them, but yeah you can still see a bit of a difference. At the very least, from what I’ve seen so far they can’t help but hug Peri literally everytime they have an excuse to do so, while having a bit more boundaries with Hazel.

But again, that’s a last minute thought and I’ve only seen a handful of episodes, so I might be wrong on that. Take it with a grain of salt. Still, I find it interesting to have those characters who are basically social workers and how there’s a bit of a difference between the kids they take care of for their “job” and the kid they have in their personal life. Again, that’s not to say they aren’t attached to the godkids, they are.

But yeah, all of this to say, the way the Fairywinkle-Cosma family is written in “Lost in Fairy World” honestly blew me away and really got me invested into watching this show, with “Battle of the Dimmsonian” and “Operation: Birthday Takeback” only adding to it (and I’m probably looking way too much into this and making it sound like the writing of this episode is much deeper than it actually is; I’m obsessed with this disaster (affectionate) of a family, help).

As for the part about Peri and Dev, basically there’s an element of Cosmo and Wanda talking over Peri in “Lost in Fairy World” that I wanted to explore, but then “Operation: Birthday Takeback” came out and there’s that moment in the “breakup” scene where Dev talks about his father not noticing his fairy while Peri is being hugged by his parents in the background. And while this is a visual gag, Cosmo and Wanda’s action in this scene actually fits very well thematically and made me realize something about how Dev might feel about Peri.

So now you’re getting a whole section about how Dev and Peri are a terrible match for each other, due to three main reasons:

1. The one everyone already talked about, Peri is severly underqualified. While you could say he’s been a godparent since he was a baby, back then all he did was grant wishes while his parents dealt with the talking + emotional support. Not only was he doing a small part of the job, he also had his parents, other more qualified fairies, helping him. Also the scene with Vicky tells us that Peri doesn’t have the best memories of his time as a baby, which is fair enough.

(note that I believe he was 7-8 years old when he had to say goodbye to Timmy, so he does remember him. As for Vicky, Timmy’s parents likely stopped hiring her once their son was 13-14, hence why Peri only has blurry memories of her, he would’ve been a toddler at best by then)

So yeah, Dev is Peri’s first kid, and Peri is not qualified for him. He loses his patience with the cupcakes, bites back when Dev is short and snappy with him (the classroom scene at the end of the “under//tale” episode, yeah I haven’t watched this one outside of this scene; and the beginning of “Operation: Birthday Takeback” with the flying shoes) and don’t get me started on Peri telling Dev in “Battle of the Dimmsonian” to give the staff back because “what will my parents say if my first godkid dies on me!”

Like PERI??? MAYBE DON’T SAY TO THE KID WITH ABANDONMENT ISSUES THAT YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT HIS WELLBEING BECAUSE YOU WANT TO IMPRESS YOUR PARENTS??? JUST A THOUGHT???

(note that I do believe Peri cares for Dev, it’s just that what he says here really comes off as him not caring, and since Dev is the one hearing what Peri says in that scene...)

Also obviously there’s the ending of “Operation: Birthday Takeback”. Tbh I don’t blame Peri much for this one since, again, he’s severely underqualified, but yeah his response to Dev’s wish was not the right one, which is reflected by Dev reacting with a frustrated scream which honestly made me feel bad for this kid. Peri going “as you wish” is just too distant and “professional”. That’s a kid in a vulnerable state! He needed comfort! Sure Peri had to go because Dev literally wished for it, but a more qualified fairy would have known what to say, if only something along the lines of “take all the time you need, I’ll be there for you once you feel better”.

So yeah, Dev is deeply hurting and a complete newbie who doesn’t have the patience or positivity for it was not going to make things better.

2. What I originally wanted to say about “Lost in Fairy World” before 3. showed its head: I think Cosmo and Wanda being around inadvertently makes things worse for the duo.

Thing is, Dev is a difficult kid. Because of that, I think that in order for him to open up to his fairy, said fairy needs to earn his respect so to speak. And not to say Dev’s fairy should be full on authoritative, but yeah they definitely need to be someone Dev respects and listens to, which is not the case for Peri. And I think the main reason why has to do with Peri’s relationship with his parents.

Basically, kids are smarter than we give them credit for and are observant as well. And what did Dev see his fairy do? Spend the first day on the job being terrified of meeting his parents who turned out to be incredibly sweet people. Then in “Lost in Fairy World” it honestly looks like Peri, Cosmo and Wanda just wanted to catch up and brought the kids for the heck of it, and Dev gets to see his fairy being babied by his parents, along with said parents talking over him. Then as said before there’s also Peri going “mooom” in front of Dev in “Operation: Birthday Takeback”.

And about “Lost in Fairy World”, there’s that moment in the beginning where Cosmo and Wanda tell Dev he can’t go to fairy world, only for Peri to step in and basically repeat the exact same thing as his parents (the “trial” part from Cosmo and “I can’t let you go” from Wanda). And while this line is a joke, I do think it’s important for Peri to put his foot down like that.

Because yeah, Peri is the one Dev should be listening to. It’s not just a question of “this is Peri’s job”, it’s also about Dev seeing Peri as an adult. But with Cosmo and Wanda, it’s a bit more complicated.

This is also another element I really like about this episode, Peri needing to be the one doing the talking so that Dev can take him seriously as a potential guardian.

But yeah, the thing is, it’s not working. Peri’s immaturity shines with his lack of patience for the kid, which Dev picks up on, leading the two of them to get snappy with each other on “even ground” in a way, which doesn’t help Peri’s case. And on top of that you have Cosmo and Wanda, who even with their eccentric side remain mature adults (and I love how them being eccentric doesn’t make them seem any less adult; love adults being allowed to have fun and be themselves without being shamed or called childish for it!).

Now as far as I’m aware the show never really talks about this, but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Cosmo and Wanda being around played a role in Dev’s perception of Peri. Not only because of them being mushy parents as previously discussed, but also because they are clearly older and more experienced than Peri, making it harder for Dev to take Peri seriously. Hopefully this makes sense?

And speaking of Dev with Cosmo and Wanda, I actually get the feeling he somewhat respects them? At least more than Peri? And on that note, there’s that scene at the very beginning of “Operation: Birthday Takeback” that I find both adorable but also pretty depressing when it comes to Dev.

When Cosmo, Wanda and Hazel show up, they ask if Dev’s dad is here, to which he mentions “Project H”. And at that Cosmo makes a comment about this project being a big surprise party, and yeah this moments gets me.

Because for a second there, Dev actually smiles. He knows that what his dad is doing has nothing to do with the party, he says so himself in response to Cosmo, but he still smiles, because he understands that Cosmo is trying to cheer him up and appreciates the effort. Idk this gets me, especially also seeing the way Wanda and Peri are looking wary as Cosmo keeps talking, clearly unsure of how Dev will react.

Like am I making a big deal out of a ten seconds moment? Probably. But there’s just something about this sad kid closing himself off whenever his problems are brought up, acting like an entitled brat most of the time as a coping mechanism, yet when this random adult he vaguely knows tries to cheer him up, he’s able to understand it and appreciate it. Idk, again, it just gets me. And sadly it really shows how bad of a match Peri and Dev are. Peri hasn’t been able to get any sort of progress with this kid, but the second his dad shows up and talks a bit suddenly the kid is giving a sincere smile. Yeah…

Now granted in regards to Dev respecting Cosmo and Wanda more, it might also have to do with them not being his godparents, considering Dev is basically using Peri as some sort of servant at times since he’s a spoiled brat and all.

Finally for this part, I want to bring up that scene in the secret lair with Vicky showing up, because to me this is a very good example of Peri actually failing Dev, which in this case will make the kid not take him seriously (on top of not earning his trust and being frustrated with him).

Now I will say, I can’t blame Peri for panicking the way he does upon seeing Vicky (btw I forgot to mention it earlier but the way he goes “lalala” and continues while turning into a drone and looking at the banging door in horror is so real. Again Peri is peak young adult energy). He’s had to deal with that woman since he was a literal infant, of course he’s going to be traumatized!

Still, Dev doesn’t know that. All he knows is that there’s this scary lady his and Hazel’s fairies know about, but he has no idea what history is between them outside of “she was terrible to our previous kid and scares us”. Also he’s 10 and has a bad home-life making him selfish, I don’t think he can fully understand the adults around him being traumatized.

But yeah, all this to say, in this scene, Peri is completely paralyzed, hiding behind the others waiting for Vicky to leave, letting his parents do the talking. And yep, we yet again go back to Cosmo and Wanda being the mature adults around here. Also worth noting that once Vicky puts on the nice act, Hazel stops being afraid of her but Dev still looks intimidated!

In that moment, Peri should have been there to protect Dev. That’s his job as a godfairy. His kid was scared and in potential danger. Yet Peri did absolutely nothing. Instead he stayed hidden, technically behind his kid which means using Dev as cover, and who came to both his and Dev’s rescue? Cosmo and Wanda, the other two fairies in the room, who are clearly more mature and are Peri’s parents.

And again, I don’t blame Peri for being paralyzed in fear like that, but how do you explain that to Dev? How do you tell that kid that he’s braver than his adult magical all-powerful fairy? That while he had to stand and somewhat confront Vicky, that adult fairy that’s supposed to protect him went hiding behind mommy and daddy? Hell from what I’ve seen, earlier in the episode the kids do stand up to Vicky, which makes Peri’s actions worse!

So yeah, hopefully this whole part makes sense as it feels a bit like a mess. The main takeaway here is that Dev needs a fairy that he can see as an almost parental figure, someone he clearly views as an adult and respects as such, that way he can have someone he can trust and be comfortable with, easing him into breaking down his walls. But Peri isn’t any of that. He’s a young adult which makes him still quite immature, and on top of that his parents basically live next door, thus leading Dev to see his fairy getting treated like a kid. It just can’t work out between them as long as they stay like that.

3. Finally, the part related to that moment of Dev talking about his dad while looking at the fairies: Dev has some serious daddy issues related to his father never paying attention to him on account of being a piece of shit who only cares about himself. And the thing is, Dev doesn’t have anyone he can relate to on that front (saying this since it’s hard for him to open up, so having someone with similar issues could be a bit of a push for him).

Hazel has caring parents whose main issue is being busy, on top of her fairies who clearly love her and spend a lot of time taking care of her. Now I haven’t seen much of the school kids but also Dev isn’t exactly close to any of them apparently? Meaning that in any case he can’t relate to them.

Then there’s this fairy that shows up, meant to cater to him but also help him emotionally, and wouldn’t you know this guy talks about wanting to impress his parents and being afraid of them! No but seriously, thinking about it, I can’t help but wonder if for a moment Dev thought he and Peri could bond over family issues, at least subconsciously. But nope! As soon as Peri reunites with his folks, turns out they’re the sweetest most loving parents ever.

I’m actually surprised that from the looks of it the show doesn’t draw a parallel between Dev and Peri on that front. I mean you have a kid with an incredibly absent parent who wants nothing more than to get his dad’s attention, being taken care of by a fairy who finds his parents’ attention suffocating and just wants them to leave him alone. There’s interesting storytelling potential here, especially when taking into account how much those two struggle to get along (basically Peri’s family situation making Dev feel worse in a way due to his confusion as to why Peri puts a bit of distance between himself and his parents)

Which loops back to that scene at the end of “Operation: Birthday Takeback” with Peri getting hugged by his parents while Dev is opening up about his daddy issues and how this visual gag fits the theme of the scene. Dev is feeling like shit about his father not loving him meanwhile the fairy that’s supposed to take care of him is being cuddled by his incredibly loving parents who adore him.

On that note, there’s an element I haven’t touched on in this episode, and it’s the fact that Hazel and Dev were in trouble with Vicky but didn’t have their fairies to protect them due to the trio visiting the house. While this scene is another example of Peri failing Dev, what I find most interesting about it is the fact that Peri “abandoned” Dev to spend time with his parents. Idk, I can’t help but think that this detail twists the knife even further for Dev. Not only was his fairy not here to protect him, but his absence is due to him hanging out with his parents who love him and wanted to spend time with him.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Dev is also angry at the fact that Cosmo and Wanda are able to take care of Hazel and be there for her whenever she needs while still finding the time to hang out with their son and be involved in his life. In a way it’s further proof that Dale is an atrocious parent, at least when taking into account Dev’s pov since I doubt a kid his age spends a lot of time hanging out with other parents, so Cosmo and Wanda are basically the only couple he can compare his father to. Basically I could see Dev noticing how much Cosmo and Wanda do and it making him feel even worse about why his dad doesn’t love him the same.

But yeah all this to say, just like everyone else in his life, Peri can’t understand Dev’s issues with his father, issues that are the core reason why he has a fairy in the first place. On top of that, Peri not only has the one thing Dev wants, but the kid sees him push it away on numerous occasions.

And that’s the end of what I wanted to say here. Hopefully this isn’t too much of a mess since I’m writing this while sick + sleep-deprived due to illness + haven’t watched much of the show past a few episodes and the clips on Tumblr.

On that note, yet again please take this post with a grain of salt, especially the Dev-Peri part. I originally just planned on gushing about “Lost in Fairy World” and how much I love the Fairywinkle-Cosma in it, but seeing the ending of “Operation: Birthday Takeback” made me want to talk a little more about Dev. That being said given how little I’ve watched there’s probably a lot I’m missing about this kid, so by no means do I think this analysis is perfect (also, the fact I’m writing this while ill…). Now Dev does seem to be a “predictable” character, hence why I feel somewhat comfortable writing this despite seeing so little, but again I might be wrong.

(Btw when I say Dev is predictable I’m in no way saying it negatively, quite the opposite! I love that him getting a fairy low-key made him worse, and I’m very curious as to how they’re going to resolve him spiraling the way he’s currently doing.)

In any case, thanks for reading!

#fop #fop a new wish #fairly oddparents a new wish #fop a new wish spoilers #fop spoilers #Flor talks #long post #Fairly Oddparents #really hoping this post makes sense #like while writing I was into it but afterwards it's like 'I didn't even watch it what am I even talking about ?'#this is what happens when you just want to talk about one episode but end up bringing up three others #still happy with what I wrote tho; even if it's likely wrong #the thing I'm most 'worried' about is when I call some of this stuff realistic #can't help but be like ''but is it tho ? do I know enough to confidently say that ?''#btw since I forgot to point it out : I wrote this before seeing the Ir//ep episode; hence no mentions of it #though from the clips I've seen the thing it would bring to this post is more proof that Dev and Peri are a mess #and that Peri needs to be less immature for the sake of this child

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a34trgv2 · 4 months ago

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Top 10 Cartoons I Hate But Many Others Like

#10. The Amazing Digital Circus: Yes, I'm aware only 2 episodes have been made of this cartoon. I'm also aware that both episodes have been praised by viewers and critics alike. As much as I would love to join in on the fun, I cannot ignore how badly structured it is. From the unlikable characters, the poor world building, the unfocused narrative to the lackluster jokes, poor handling of themes and lack of stakes, this it the kind of unmitigated mess that more infamously bad cartoons are ripped to shreds over. I will say that the animation and voice acting is well done so it's not all bad.

#9. The Owl House: Many people were disappointed by my disappointment with this disappointing cartoon. But no one was more disappointed that I was left cold by the show than me. I love fantasy, magic, mystical creatures and enchanting worlds. The Owl House should've been up my ally, yet in practice I wouldn't even spit in it's direction. With an irritating cast of characters, bad world building, formulaic plots, the writing was already on the wall. Then Amity showed up and it made the show unbearable to sit through. I'm all for LGBTQ rep, but I draw the line at a bully and their victim becoming and item. I'm sure Amity has some sappy sob story about how her parents pressured her into being an entitled brat, but she's still and entitled brat that shouldn't even have friends, nevermind a girlfriend, because her attitude STINKS!

#8. The Loud House: I've made it no secret that despite the warm reception and continued popularity of The Loud House, I was never a fan. I never found it funny, well written, or relatable. All I got from The Loud House was this is one of the most annoying dysfunctional families I've ever seen. I do think it's well animated and I commend the crew for moving forward with the show despite the disgraced creator's termination.

#7. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur: I consider myself a big Marvel fan thanks to the MCU and Spider-Man franchises. I never heard of Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur before this show was announced, so I was genuinely curious to see how this would play out. Needless to say, I was not impressed. Despite having dazzling visuals and really good voice acting, the show is just badly made with terrible writing, unfunny jokes, dull characters, and repetitive action scenes. This show clearly has its fans, but unfortunately I'm not one of them.

#6. Jurassic World: Camp Cretaceous: Those who know me know I love dinosaurs and am a huge Jurassic Park fan. You'd think a cartoon based on the series would be as exciting and interesting as the movies. Well like so many of the dinosaurs victims, you'd be DEAD WRONG! This show shoots itself in the foot by having 6 unlikable and annoying characters, and not one gets eaten by a dinosaur. Not to mention it's sluggishly paced, the animation is stiff, and the score only reminds me of the movies I'd rather be watching. Clearly I'm in the minority here as I had a blast watching ALL the Jurassic Park movies, even the ones critics didn't like at all, over this.

#5. We Bare Bears: I like bears as much as the next guy, with my favorite cartoon bear of all time being Winnie The Pooh. Despite my fascination with this big, furry creatures, We Bare Bears never made me like the main trio, much less love them. They're all varying degrees of unlikable and the show isn't funny or well written to keep me engaged. They also did San Francisco dirty by making the people so unlikable. The one element that I think would've made for a much more interesting show is Chloe Park. Her character was utterly wasted on this stupid show as she's a kid with a high IQ and is in college but still wants to be a kid. She deserves better.

#4. The Mitchells vs The Machines: As much as I like Sony pushing for more expiremental animated films lately, this expirement didn't succeed in my book. Sure, the animation is amazing and the voice acting's mostly good, but tells such a generic story, has such incompetent and unlikable characters, and I will never get over the fact that Aaron Mitchell sounds like a middle-aged man and not, you know, A CHILD! The worst part about this film is despite it's best efforts, it is just NOT funny. It relies so much on cringy, outdated memes, weak slapstick, and dull visual gags and I never once found it funny.

#3. El Deafo: I was confused as to what this show was supposed to be based on the trailer. Watching it for myself, I found that it was more frustrating than anything. Don't get me wrong, I commend author Cece Bell for turning her personal struggles with impaired hearing into a comic turned cartoon and I fully understand wanting to tell a story from a deaf person's perspective. That said, though, I just despised the execution from the awful writing, the unlikable characters to the terrible sound mixing. As pure as the intentions were, they were sorely lost in the execution in my opinion.

#2. Frog and Toad: When I was a kid, I loved reading the Frog and Toad books. They were simple, yes, but the characters were so interesting and the illustrations were well crafted. This show should've been exactly what I was looking for in an adaptation of the books. What I got instead was a prime example of how NOT to adapt a beloved children's series. Despite having spot on voice acting, the abysmal writing, the incompetent characters, and the lackluster animation really soured the experience. I know the author's children were involved in this, but I don't think they did the books justice. The show didn't take full advantage of the medium and played more like mediocre live reading of the books.

#1. Summer Camp Island: I clearly struck a nerve with fans of the show when I said I hated it. Well, y'all will be please to know that your efforts to change my mind were all in vain. I just couldn't get passed how badly written it was, how hatable the characters were, how grossly unfunny it was. The worst part is that this is a world where anthropomorphic animals and mystical creatures exist, yet they can't tell anyone about the magic on the island. To this very day, I CALL BOLONGA!

Conclusion: I'm not saying y'all are wrong for liking these show and you definitely won't see me call them "overrated." I just wanna offer a different perspective on these popular and well liked cartoons. Some honorable mentions include Miraculous Ladybug (many people love it, I can't stand it), The Ghost and Molly McGee (you all know how I feel about that chatterbox), and the "adult" cartoons that received critical acclaim such as Rick & Morty, Smiling Friends, Bob's Burgers and The Simpsons. Agree? Disagree? Let me know in the comments and I'll see you next time.

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storm-driver · 7 months ago

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hi, i have feelings about cartoon nostalgia and the audience perception of them 20 years on

this is gonna read hyper-specific, but bear with me

i refuse to credit butch hartman for the way danny phantom came out during it's first two seasons, at least outside of the initial pitch and the idea of the protagonist having white hair. i know the majority of enthusiasts for this show are more than aware of hartman's antics at this point. these anctics, i won't get into. other people are far more suited to explain that stuff vs me, a random guy on the internet. but there's very specific topics that i don't often see get brought up in detail, like the production and staff behind this show.

i'll get into it below the cut so as not to clutter your dashboard. but if you're not familiar with the actual production history of danny phantom, this might be interesting to read.

it's common knowledge these days that stephen silver is the one who developed the design for danny based on hartman's original rough sketches. the similarity between each drawing is apparent, but you can see clear as day which design was gonna be more apt for animation and overall audience allure back in 2003.

he also did character designs for hartman's other poster child, Fairly Oddparents. the trend is similar, though far from a huge concern. character design overhauls happen all the time in media production. designs might be too complicated for animation, so they get stripped down. or maybe things aren't complex enough and more nuance needs to be added. that's normal stuff, and i am not dunking on hartman for not nailing danny's design right out the gate. i'm pointing this out in case you've ever looked at butch hartman's recent work and wondered "how are these done by the same artist?"

the answer is they weren't. hartman had to adapt to stephen silver's conceptual designs in order to work on the storyboards. take from that what you will.

onto the actual writing.

butch barely wrote a single episode for this show's first two seasons.

steve marmel helped write at least 28 episodes of the original two seasons, with writers like sib ventress and marty isenberg bringing a good amount of episodes to the table, as well.

butch hartman is credited primarily for directing and storyboarding this show. the episode pitch and writing was by other people almost entirely. the ONLY episodes in the first two seasons that hartman is credited with having written are mystery meat, one of a kind and splitting images. and he's credited with co-writing these episodes alongside steve marmel and mark banker. ie, he did not write these episodes on his own. and allegedly, butch hartman had a tendency to be credited as a writer for an episode, even if he only wrote a few lines of dialogue. again, take from that what you will.

past that in season 3, he wrote infinite realms, torrent of terror, forever phantom, urban jungle, and ofc, phantom planet. which a lot of people know, these episodes in particular weren't the most enjoyable, nor was the overall direction of them very good.

a director's job is to make sure that the overall tone, feel, and message of the show is being kept consistent with intent. that means meeting with producers, who are the ones managing the, y'know, producing part of the whole project. it may sound like the director is the one heading the project if it's their job to keep things in check. which, i will not deny, hartman must've put in a good deal of work to make the show come out as well as it did.

but pile that with some of the off things per episode. the mean-spirited way that characters tend to be taught lessons, the voice direction getting a drastic change in season 3 (you can hear it explicitly with david kaufman suddenly going for higher pitches instead of the usual one he's done so far). there's really only one consistent motif in the entire show's OST. which isn't a bash against the music producer. it's a concern that the director of the show never asked him to change things up, and ONLY stuck to this one motif.

to briefly touch on the mean-spirited thing. there's multiple instances in the show where danny or someone else is seen fighting back against whatever has given them trouble, or they're taking matters into their own hands to ensure they won't be hurt ahead of time. and repeatedly, the show likes to kick these characters back down for trying to stand up. it's a trend in all of butch hartman's shows, and it's treated more like comedy than anything else. it's up to audience perception on how to view it. but for me personally, it starts to feel like an overused gag and turns into something more malevolent after seeing it overused almost every single episode.

okay besides that, i actually wanna look at specific examples of episodes that steve marmel wrote for. again, this is the guy who's more or less responsible for the show's serialization.

the complete list of episodes is as follows:

Mystery Meat, Parental Bonding, One of a Kind, Attack of the Killer Garage Sale, Splitting Images, What You Want, Bitter Reunions, Prisoners of Love, My Brother's Keeper, Shades of Gray, Fanning the Flames, Teacher of the Year, Fright Night, 13(Thirteen), Public Enemies, Memory Blank, Reign Storm, The Ultimate Enemy, The Fright Before Christmas, Secret Weapons, Flirting with Disaster, Micro Management , Kindred Spirits, and Reality Trip.

multiple episodes listed here are from the first season, which a lot of people consider the show's best. and of the handful listed for season 2, he wrote all of the hour-long specials.

i would be here for hours talking about how steve marmel tackles all of these characters and concepts significantly better than hartman does in season 3. but that's a topic best praised elsewhere. point is, if you watched any of these episodes and thought to yourself "wow, that was actually kinda clever," steve marmel is more or less the guy responsible.

butch hartman was in charge of direction, but that does not give him exclusive credit for every single line of dialogue or plot beat. there could be a LOT we just don't know because people on production staff don't want to comment. but the writing consistency taking a dive off the board by season 3, which is the same season that steve marmel departed from the project due to conflicting direction in the story? you might deduce that butch hartman was not the prized writer and artist behind this otherwise beloved cartoon.

to dredge up an easier-to-tackle target, season 3.

my criticisms are 18-year old echoes at this point, you've heard them all. from otherwise pointless episodes that don't develop the characters or world, to completely out-of-touch writing (looking at you, phantom planet) that juxtaposes the characters with everything we've been told about them so far. it became a slog of a season that didn't have any build-up to it's finale. the occasional gem of an episode like frightmare helped in some aspects. or the promise for something later with d-stabilized. but it all gets swept under the rug thanks to a rushed finale with poor build-up, bad writing direction for the characters, and most importantly, an unlasting effect on the viewer. (or a negative lasting effect, which is arguably worse)

for a season that knew it was on its last leg before inevitably needing to give up, there's seldom few episodes dedicated to advancing an overall narrative, and thus give a slimmer of hope for a satisfying conclusion. instead, the show goes all in with villain-of-the-week stories, and even the returning villains are hardly taken seriously or given more to do besides just being there.

of course, we know the reason steve marmel had left the project was because hartman wanted the show not to taken a more story-focused drive. it almost starts to feel like spite that kept the show so horribly grounded, letting it become stagnant before eventually being forgettable.

all this is in service of letting people know, it really wasn't butch hartman that made the show, not alone. death of the author and all that nonsense aside, he pitched the concept. and it takes a lot of love and dedication to make a concept something you can physically see and adore. don't let him swath in all the credit. recognize the others who made the work you can still enjoy.

#stormy weather #danny phantom #hey guess what i found in my drafts!!!#this is an INCREDIBLY old post #this is dating back to like almost 2016!!!#anyways i rewrote most of it because the og was a lil rough lol #but all of these feelings remain the same to this day #it's kinda wack #a younger me knew what he was feeling #and an older me knows how to say it

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