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ashasdramadrawer · 2 years ago

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Seconding that this is bait.

But, honestly, this is my jam as a lawful good apologist.

Moral conflict is loaded, so is cardboard good person. When people say ‘gray’ or ‘morally conflicted’ what they usually mean is “The character I identify with gets to do asshole things, and I want to do asshole things too, and how dare someone call them out for being an asshole.”

Listen, I get it. Superhero media is all about the power fantasy. Iron Man appeals to the “I’m smarter than everyone and therefore I get to be hot, rich, and show everyone how superior I am because of that. Aren’t you jealous of me, jocks who were popular when I wasn’t? Why don’t people see how DEEP I am? How cool? The World is a Dark and Horrible Place and I ALONE CAN SEE THROUGH THE THIN VENEER OF SOCIETY AND WILL DECIDE TO PULL IT DOWN aka every white boy antihero ever. Which leads to the kind of entitled behavior that... well, leads to incels. Or femcels.

Peggy is the Pick Me girl of the MCU. Look at me, being not like the other girls. Look at me, entitled to the hottest man in the MCU. Look at me, with my history completely rewritten from the movies, so that I am a super spy and hung out with the guys and shoot and wrestle and box. Why is she interesting? She‘s just like every other pick me girl that’s come out of the 90s and early aughts. She punches things and shoots a gun and... from there, she has no more development. None that wasn’t undone by later retcons. Pretty much anything that’s become interesting about her has been cribbed off different characters.

There are many different types of character arcs. Positive change arcs, flat arcs, and reverse change arcs. What made Tony interesting in the first Iron Man movie was that he as undergoing a positive change arc. They are also incredibly easy to write. It is easy to make someone look bad then teach them a lesson. They’re easy for people to sympathize with. Seeing a hot mess become less of a hot mess is something most people can feel for. What absolutely sucks about it is that they are also necessary to erase in order for most sequels to happen- not everyone sees the previous movie and are only familiar with the previous characterization, and so are the writers, so the same arc happens over and over again and it is so. Damn. Boring.

Flat arcs typically happen with characters like Cap or Superman. They DO have problems. Usually their internal self is in conflict with something in the world. Their purpose is to change the world around them, or to influence others. Their internal conflict is usually resolved by having their original faith or beliefs affirmed. This is actually easier to deal with for serialized writers, because they don’t have to worry about massive changes in personality to deal with.

The problem with a lot of Steve Roger’s writing is how Whedon dealt with his character. He very obviously saw Tony as his self-insert, and Steve and Thor were the butt monkeys of the Avengers movies. They stayed that way throughout. Which was very, very unfair to their characters.

The phrase ‘cardboard cutout’ loses any bite when you look at how many billion DeathBladeBloodDooms there are out there. God, how many Wolverine clones by now? There are dupes of pretty much EVERY comic character archetype, heroic or otherwise. Superman-but-EVIL is redundant as fuck at this point- most of the time, they don’t get what they’re deconstructing and why they need to reconstruct the archetype afterwards.

The one thing that CAtFA did right was show us Steve before the serum. We needed more of that, to see the man beneath the myth, and what shaped him. That let us see his internal life in a way that had not been possible before. But since Cevans tended to underplay Cap, and he was put in opposition to Iron Man, it was hard to get that same sympathetic POV again.

Peggy is not a terribly original character. Pretty much everything interesting that happened to her was the result of a retcon or an AU. They TRIED to make her ‘good’ even if she... really wasn’t. In the movies, she never did anything beyond help form SHIELD, which was a cover for HYDRA the whole time, and was never held accountable for it. She’s become mostly a possession Sue since.

But characters like Cap and Supes are important. They are the bar against which all other super heroes are measured. I’m not the first to say this, but there is a reason we need them. Because without them, all other super powered characters would just be bullies.

What draws you to a character? Is it moral conflict or cardboard good people ??

Oooh thanks for the interesting question but why do I get the vague sense this is bait 😅

Very few people with an ounce of writing experience or critical analysis skills likes “cardboard people” regardless of whether they’re good, bad, or anything in between. A cardboard person has not been written into a character. They’re just a collection of traits to serve a certain role in a story. Depending on the genre and their importance, that is not necessarily a writing flaw. When you have a 100 minute movie you cannot possibly develop every character. However, if your main character is a cardboard person that means the writer hasn't done their job and by gods other writers pick up on that. Nat, for example, was not a character in IM2, she was a cardboard femme fatale, because she had no inner world and no inner conflict to speak of.

On the converse, a well-written character will always have conflict , regardless of whether they’re good, bad, or anything in between! And a good conflict, one that has complexity - both ethical and emotional - will reveal layers about a character's value systems and psyche and make them a whole person, and that's what I like.

As I've always said, the first character I liked in the MCU was Tony, because here is a guy who was introduced to us self-centered and has it all, then you realise how little he has in term of human relationships (partly due to his own doing), and in the end he lets go of some of his material possessions and earns human connections. The second character I loved was Loki, because he's not a bad guy by nature, and he's perpetually torn between genuine love for his adoptive family, and anger at the lies they built around him and the identity they took away from him. The third character I loved was T'Challa, who through a fairly small role in Civil War was able to go through an entire conflict around grief, loss, compassion and forgiveness.

I came to like Steve and Bucky after I've gotten some context about 1930s America that the movies didn't give us. Steve's entire existence is a conflict with the world. He starts off the direct opposite of the eugenics ideal (I want to say 'save for the colour of his skin' but eugenicists scoffed at the Irish, so his colour didn't give him an advantage there) then through the serum became the Aryan ideal. He himself continually questions and disobeys the system that has tried to make him into an avatar for their agendas. He yearns of moving forward but the only way he seems to do that is after he finds the piece of his past that he had let slip through his fingers in the alps. And Bucky has a similar arc, how does he marry the identity that was forced upon him to who he once was and who he now wants to be? He is also trying to move forward, but can only do that by reconnecting with the past that was forcefully taken from him. Speaking without the shipping angle, Bucky is Steve's narrative mirror, and very similar conflicts drive their stories (which is why Endgame did the equivalent of narrative suicide by making Steve just...abandon all his conflicts and leaving Bucky to continue on with the same conflicts without his mirror) and there's something delicious in exploring that.

Conflict doesn't have to be just the character choosing between right and wrong, although that is a common conflict. You can have a pure good character forced to be in conflict with people around them and that can still be an interesting conflict (when well-written), and it doesn't mean that the character is "cardboard good".

If this ask is about Peggy -- I might enjoy her character if the story had the self-awareness to recognise the moral conflicts in her character. But it doesn't. It writes her as a series of contradictions and presents her as the perfect model of goodness. She fails at even being a cardboard character.

#mcu salt

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linkspooky · 2 years ago

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Jujutsu Kaisen, Chapter 201 Thoughts.

It’s highly ironic the last two chapters are Kenjaku in Geto’s body, making some of Geto’s worst fears come to life. Geto always warned that normal people could use sheer numbers to exploite and harm sorcerers. . While Geto’s methodology was entirely in the wrong (murder is bad) people perhaps his fear of the masses who can’t use jujutsu turning against the few who can use jujutsu are not as unfounded as they once seemed.

When Geto says that the weak oppress the strong with their superior numbers, what does he mean?

1. Exorcise. Consume. For whom?

It’s sort of hard to go “Hmm, maybe Geto had a point” because his way of making that point was mass murder, but I think a lot of people understand what the points that Geto was trying to make are. His methodology is godawful, but both his criticisms for the jujutsu world and his fears aren’t completely unfounded.

Geto’s believes are founded in a fear of the “weak” repressing the “strong”, where the “weak” are those outside the Jujutsu World, common, ordinary every day citizens, while the “strong” are individual Jujutsu Sorcerers.

The first and visceral response to this idea is obviously, sorcerers are not oppressed. There’s an idea in literature criticism called the X-Men Fallacy. The X-Men Fallacy comes from the X-Men comics, and it’s a caution against using people with superpowers oppressed by their society as a metaphor for oppressed minorities in real life, because it is essentially legitimizing that oppression by giving a reason for it. If people really could shoot laser beams out of their eyeballs, it would make sense people would be cautious of that because it represents a legitimate danger. There’s no legitimate danger of say, a gay person, any violence or oppression against them is senseless.

Sorcerers don’t work as a 1:1 metaphor for real world oppression of minority groups, but I don’t think that is exactly what Gege is going for. As a group of people Sorcerers are not opppressed by any government structure, there’s no laws against them, etc. etc. (True the americans are targetting them now but I’ll get to that). However, Sorcerers en masse are exploited.

What do I mean by exploited as opposed to oppressed? In order to prevent the deaths by curses, Jujutsu Sorcerers are expected to fight Curses basically around the clock. Not only do they risk their lives on exorcism missions on a daily basis, they are raised to do this since children. The Jujutsu world is also incredibly insular, Sorcerers rarely have much of a life outside of their duty of exercising curses. There are some people like say certain members of the Zenin clan, (Mai and Maki) who are not even allowed to have a glimpse of a normal life because they are raised with the expectation to be sorcerers so there is no alternative path out of it.

This works much better as a real world comparison, after all there are plenty of people who work dangerous jobs and are exploited for their labor, and society requires people to do that job for the whole of society to function. This is also imagery we are shown multiple times in the manga itself, sorcerers are referred to as cogs in a wheel, people doing a job eliminating curses so the majority of society can function. Megumi calls Jujutsu sorcerers a cog, Nanami calls Sorcery a “Shit Job” like his nine to five finance job albeit one that helps more people, Yuji calls himself only a cog in the machine that exercises curses.

This is also something about sorcerer society that is something generally accepted and taken as unchangeable, sorcerers will continue to die fighting curses for the “greater good of all of society. Needs of the many, etc.

Geto’s main criticism of Sorcerer Society is questioning that exploitation. Why should sorcerers have to continually die, especially in service of an ignorant majority that does not know that sorcerers are fighting these battles for them in the first place?

Its a legitimate criticism, one that is distorted later on by Geto’s own feelings of sorcerer supremacy. However, Geto’s ideals are pretty clear in the Hidden Inventory arc. He starts out believing similar to both Megumi, Nanami, Yuji, that this is the way things are, sorcerers have to use their abilities to protect the weaker common people from curses. They are obligated to use their great powers in service of others.

There’s nothing wrong with that ideal or sense of resposnibility per se, it just doesn’t measure up to the reality that Geto faces. First, that idea is rooted in the idea of sacrifice for the greater good. Utilitarianism etc. The strong should keep the weak in check, Jujutsu Sorcerers should be used to help the greatest amount of people possible. The problem with utilitarianism is how alluring it sounds. It makes sense to sacrifice the few for the many, because that’s numbers right, until you are one of the few who is sacrificed.

One of the greatest critiques of utilitarianism ideology is as follows, “What do you quantify as an acceptable sacrifice for the greater good?” It’s a question with no real answer because people will argue how much is worth sacrificing over a perceived gain, and who should be doing the sacrificing.

To name another example, have you heard of the Prisoner’s Dilemna?

The prisoner’s dilemma presents a situation where two parties, separated and unable to communicate, must each choose between cooperating with the other or not. The highest reward for each party occurs when both parties choose to co-operate. [SOURCE]

However, the rub is both robgbers can minimize the total jail time that the two of them will do if only they co-operate and stay silent, but they are offered incentives to betray each other that they are faced seperately, which will drive them to defect and end up doing maximum total jail time between the two of hem six years total.

Another example of the Prisoner’s dilemma is known as the Tragedy of the Commons:

It may be to everyone’s collective advantage to conserve and reinvest in the propagation of a common pool of natural resources in order to be able to continue consuming it, but each individual always has an incentive to instead consume as much as possible as quickly as possible, which then depletes the resource. Finding some way to co-operate would clearly make everyone better off here.

In other words both of these principles show that even in situations where it makes sense logically for people to cooperate for a common good and it would lead to the best result, people will instead act for individual good instead, because humans don’t behave rationally.

Geto’s ideals that make sense, are then confronted with the senselessness of human behavior. He’s challenged in two ways in the Hidden Inventory arc. First, when He and Gojo are asked to sacrifice a girl for the common good, Jujutsu Society whose ideal is to protect the weak are essentially asking Geto and Gojo to kill a teenage girl as a sacrifice for the sake of the many.

This is the first time Geto’s ideals don’t hold up to the reality of his job, because he cannot protect the weak individual (Riko) and protect the weak collective (jujutsu world and outside) at the same time. A strict utilitarian would say Geto should accept his mission, and sacrifice Riko for the common good. However, Geto’s ideals don’t lie in utitilarianism, they lie in the fact that Sorcerers are obligated to use their powers to protect the weak.

So, Geto is asked to do reconcile these two very different ideas. His own ideals on how the ewak should be protected by strong people like him and Gojo. And Sorcerer Society which asks Sorcerers to fight curses and make sacrifices en masse in order to protect the weak. Sacrificing Riko is in allignment with Sorcerer Society’s ideals, but against Geto’s personal ideals. HOWEVER. Geto doesn’t realize this yet, and he attempts to reconcile them. He attempts to have both at once, continue with his duty as a sorcerer, and also protect Riko. His logic being that him and Gojo should simply be strong enough to do both.

And of course they’re both wrong, because no individual on their own is stronger than society. In the context of the fight, despite caliming they are the strongest, both Gojo and Geto working together were not enough to protect Riko in time even if Gojo did kill Toji by the end of the fight.

This is the first time that Geto’s high ideals come crashing down in reality. There are two things he believes in, because the strong protect the weak he will be able to protect people like Riko in front of him when he chooses too. Geto can’t live up to that paradigm he puts on himself when he fails to protect her, he has failed in his perceived duty.

The second is Geto’s belief that the sacrifices sorcerers make for the greater society have a purpose, that they fight to protect the greater majority of people and therefore for that goal any sacrifice is worth it. Which once again, returning to utilitarianism, sacrificing for the greater good is something that seems to make logical sense until you’re the one asked to make the sacrifice.

Geto never abandons his idea of the strong protecting the weak. That people who have power should fight for those who don’t have power. Rather, his idea of who weak people are changes because of what he witnesses.

Geto sees a little girl murdered, because a cult of rich and powerful people paid for Toji to do it. He’s met with the seneslessnes of the violence. A little girl isn’t even sacrificed for the greater good of stopping the danger of Master Tengen’s evolution, she’s sacrificed because a bunch of sick people with the money to do so killed a little girl for their demented religious beliefs and then applauded their deaths. Jujutsu Sorcerers have strength in the sense that they can shoot laser beams, but they don’t have traditional societal power, they don’t have money or influence, they are in all aspects a fringe group on the edge of society most people don’t even know about.

At the beginning of the arc Geto says, that the Star religious group are the ones that they don’t need to worry about because they’re not curse users. Only to have it turn out to be them as the ones directly repsonsible for her death, yes Toji killed her, but only because the Star Group paid her too. They used money and societal power, the power of the majority, something Jujutsu Sorcerers don’t have.

This prompts Geto to ask himself the question, who is really the weak one in this situation? Who is it that he should truly be protecting?

Geto talks about “reason” because he assumes the world to be rational. Jujutsu Sorcerers assume society runs like a machine that works, when it truly doesn’t. In Geto’s mind, his actions of exorcising curses, should achieve the greater perceivable benefit of a better, safer society. However, instead what Geto witnesses is the opposite. Sorcerers work themselves to the bone exercising curses, only for the situation not to improve at all. “Exorcisms and consumption” especially relates to ideas of laborers as an exploited people in the greater scope of capitalism. Say you’re a factory worker making a product that essentially nobody needs, but is sold anyway, because captialism is desired around a model of endless consumption, people make things, because people buy things. People need to constantly buy things to keep money flowing. However, if you are factory worker A, even if you get paid for your labor, it’s difficult to see your work as amounting to anything if all you do is make a cheap product no one needs. Of course in this case Geto is presented with what seems like a sacred duty, slaying monsters to protect the innocent people.

Yet in reality, sorcerer’s live extremely short lives, young sorcerers die in hideous and gruesome deaths all the time, and while less people die on a grand scale it’s also true that sorcerers are dying left and right and yet the number of curses made in the world doesn’t decrease. Yuki Tsukumo’s point is that the current system of exercising curses one by one is unsustainable. Geto’s point is that sorcerers will continue to die, and they’re even expected to always make this sacrifice, over, over, over, over, over, over, over, over, over.

Geto’s snapping point is also, him witnessing again a year later the same thing he witnessed with Riko’s death. Not only is the extreme labor that sorcerers are expected to perform for an unknowing population a violence already performed against sorceers. There are also other ways sorcerers are exposed to violence. Even if sorcerers are individually strong, they are one outnumbered by normal people who can band up together to do violence against them, the way the town of people forms a mob to cage these two little girls based on superstition, and two sorcerers have no real money or political power.

Mass Murder was Geto’s method. It was the way Geto saw to achieve his ideals. Geto’s ideal is a world where Sorcerers don’t die over and over again exercising curses. A world where this status quo of senseless death and exploitation changes. And yes, sorcerers are exploited at least for their labors.

They are a fringe group, they have very little say in their lives, they’re expected tow ork and devote their entire lives to that work, and it’s incredibly dangerous and deadly work, even young sorcerers are expected to risk their lives. Geto’s not wrong in the fact that it’s unjust to build an entire society on the sacrifice on these countless nameless sorcerers. And even as Geto’s methods become more murdererous, this idea at the center of his actions is that it’s unfair that sorcerers be expected to make this sacrifice over and over again. Sorcerers are in fact mistreated by society at large, despite the fact that they are indivdually strong (they can shoot laser beams) they are also expected to labor hard all of their lives which usually lead to short lives. It’s like, everyone agrees child labor is bad right, and yet for society to currently function as it does people Yuta’s age are asked to continually go on missions where they may die.

Geto’s disillusionment just causes him to mistake belive the only response to a society where sorcerers are relatively powerless and stuck with their lot in life is “sorcerer supermacy” that is, to retool society where sorcerers rule. THis is also where Geto falls victim to the same trappings of sorcerer society he pretends to be above. Sorcerer society runs on might makes right. Sorcerers believe that stronger sorcerers are better, stronger sorcery techniques are better, everything is run on individual strength. Geto’s replacing one world where individualism reigns for another, because despite being a radical and seeing clearly there is a problem here he can’t escape the box society has trapped him in. He even uses a might make right methodology. Well, clearly, if the problem is that regular humans who can’t use sorcerer have us outnumbered ten to one, then we should just kill them all, the stronger, better people will rule.

Ignoring the obvious flaw in Geto’s plan that sorcerers are constantly infighting, and sorcerer politics is incredibly conservative and cutthroat Besides the obvious “murder is bad”, Geto seems to ignore the fact that if sorcerers were left as the only ones running the show, all the problems of sorcerer society would still be there and they would still be constantly killing each other over infighting.

Anyway, my long dive into explaining Geto’s ideals and his critiques of how sorcerer society is ran is eventually leading to this, Geto’s fears that sorcerers may be exploited by the majority are literally coming true as of Kenjaku’s actions.

Once again this works better as a labor exploitation metaphor, then a minority one. Kenjaku is propopsing that sorcerers can be used, not just as labor to exercise curses, but also as a literal resource.

The trappings of utilitarianism, what seems to make sense as a sacrifice for the greater good of society, in this case a small sacrifice to create a clean and renewable energy that will solve the energy crisis, seems reasonable until you are the one expected to make the sacrifice.

Kenjaku even references the tragedy of the commons here. The president is against abduction and human experimentation UNTIL his advisors mention that other countries might want to abduct and experiment on the sorcerers instead. THe common sense solution is that no one experiments on sorcerers. However, when it’s possible that someone else might do it instead, and they might get this resource that we do not have, and therefore put them at advantage over us THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE IT INSTEAD. Tragedy of the commons play out in real time. The logical solution is for no one to conduct experiments and everyone reaps the benefits, the most appealing solution is ONLY WE GET THE BENEFITS.

This is also Geto’s fear playing out in action, that people outside of the Jujutsu World can use numbers, and resources such as money and political pull that Jujutsu Sorcerers do not have in order to move against Jujutsu Sorcerers. I think Gege uses the word “Minority” with tact here, they’re not an oppressed minority because there is societal oppresion against them, but rather beause they make up a minority of society, beucase they are in small numbers and have no political pull it would be incredibly easy for the president of america to just, send a number of soldiers against them. The small size of the Sorcerer Community makes them vulnerable and unable to protect themselves if and when others on the outside decide to gang up on them in larger numbers.

Once again, the American's actions aren’t to like, oppress the sorcerers but rather to use them as an exploitable resource. They are already being exploited to exorcise curses, but now the political powers all around the world may do something as inhumane as kidnap them and experiment on them, for some perceived benefit of cleaner energy, or whatever, and they can get away with this because they have the power to do so.

Geto’s fear revolved around the ideas that this might happen, especially after witnessing it happen twice, an entire small town beating on two little girls and locking them in cages, an incredibly rich cult paying for the deaths of a fifteen year old girl. The majority can find reasons to justify violence against sorcerers, and sorcerers because of their small numbers cannot really defend themselves against that violence. That was always a risk, and now we are seeing it play out in real time. So, let the sorcerer hunt begin.

#geto suguru #jjk 201 #jjk meta #jujutsu kaisen 201 #jujutsu kaisen spoilers #jujutsu kaisen 201 spoilers #jjk spoilers #suguru geto #satoru gojo #kenjaku #noritoshi kamo

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honey-milk-depresso · 2 years ago

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Of course ahem-

Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey Trey the perfect malewife

Bingo sheet

**This is my personal opinion, please don't take them seriously.

@rizavi-m @cherryjkj @twisted-clovers I’m slandering-

T*ey is a lot of things for me, and totally not my OBVIOUS hate to him, y-yeah I totally don't like him- d-don't look at me like that...

T*ey is regarded as a "boring" character in the TWST fandom to say the least, and it isn't very hard to see why.

He's just that "malewife material" and he's a "normal man who does normal man things", which isn't wrong, but I just want to peel as many layers of him as possible (which I miraculously can and not because I'm all for him, like- what- ahahahha- t-that's weird-) and say that's he's very weird, in a good way (well, that's debatable-).

He's someone who's quite sketchy to be honest, especially how much he wants to prove to everyone that he is "normal". I mean, a lot of his lines in game shows that he would like to be seen as neutral from how he doesn't want you to get too carried away on his birthday, how he's average in all of his classes, and yet in his Uniform Card Personal Story, he's shown to be exceptionally good in his Flying Skills that even Vargas marked him with flying colors. I'm not sure about his other subjects as of now, but this definitely shows that he's NOT average in anything.

I think we never really ask why he wants to remain as such. Maybe it's similar to Kalim and Jamil's relationship, but with T*ey and Riddle as he doesn't want to be seen as "superior" to Riddle because he's just a Vice Dorm Leader, and much rather have Riddle have all the attention as Dorm Leader, or maybe it's because he knows that Riddle's ego might be crushed as we see when Riddle was shocked to find out that T*ey's Unique Magic had completely overwrites his, and ultimately questions his own powers compared to T*ey's, and he doesn't want his friend to feel that, I don't know.

T*ey is also, from what I see, to be someone who's a naturally good liar. I mean, literally everyone fell for his oyster sauce joke, including honor student Riddle himself, so maybe all his "I'm a normal man" is all a facade, and he hides something he doesn't want people to know for whatever reason. He's just, so enigmatic, so frustrating to think deeper about, which is something I like. (Yes, I like intellectual pain and headaches-)

I mean, I also think T*ey is someone who learns best through hands on experience, like how I explained here one time about how he loves Alchemy translate to it (the gist of it, more details in that post), and how he's failed multiple times in making Hamburg steak to become the professional, malewife chef and baker he is (from Birthday Suit interview), and that, don't flame me, I put VERY bluntly and simply:

Is why he's a coward, but you can't blame really him.

For someone who rather learn things through experience, it would probably mean he remembers things very well in order for him to understand, learn and use it for like, I don't know- tests- obviously-

but that same good memory of his is also why he probably didn't want to stop Riddle because from the Twisted Wonderland Comic, we see that T*ey was traumatised that of how broken and sad Riddle was because of his own "selfishness" (is that the right word?) in wanting to play with him. I guess in a way, they kinda insisted that Riddle plays with them, but the consequences of his own selfishness (which wasn't really selfish-) led to Riddle being more withdrawn and heartbroken, and recalling that same memory over and over and over again is what led T*ey to believe that he shouldn't do anything about it, or he'll make matters worse and cause his own friend to become more upset if he decides, by his own selfishness, to have Riddle stop his ridiculous strictness, of course, the irony being shit just got worse. Maybe that's why he does so much for others (sort of-), to avoid the messiness of crushing the other party's feelings if he were to be selfish.

He just doesn't know what to do in that situation because that's the only time he would experience it and nothing more, his maturity depth isn't so far into being "when is the right time to be assertive".

But... T*ey is someone I believe is someone who's caring, at least, to his family members, like the FCKING STARGAZER EVENT- I'M NEVER GONNA GET OVER THIS- LIKE HE FCKING GAVE ALL HIS HARD EARNED MONEY TO HIS YOUNGER BROTHER SO THAT HE COULD WATCH A MAGIFT GAME- IM FCKINDGDFDHFD

**Technical difficulties faced, we are trying to fix the dumbass**

Ahem, yes-

He's shrewd in literally Stargazer event, tricking Riddle to buy him that food processor he desired, FRICKIN' Lab Coat Personal Story like need I go on? He's a sneaky little gremlin which can further entail he's a good manipulator to get people to do or think as such if he so desired. He's THAT good which is kind of scary (why didn't I also circle if he existed I'd be a little scared of him?).

T*ey is so weird, on surface level he seems boring, but I like to think that he wants to for many reasons he won't say but we can all theorise, that's the beauty of T*ey, so much hidden, could-be-possible lore from him, a lot more deducing than obvious information of him thrown at us.

Also, now that I think about it, him not wanting to be the center of attention is also translated outside of the story as he has NO EVENT SSR- FCKING- T*EY- PLEASE- I KNOW IT’LL BE HARDER TO GET YOU BUT GIVE US ONE SSR EVENT CARD THAT’S NOT YOUR DAMN BIRTHDAY (which I didn’t simp scream over), OR FCKING SSR DORM UNIFORM DAMNIT HDGHDFGD- I HAD TOO HIGH HOPES FOR HALLOWEEN, DIDN’T I-

and also he's hot- I mean what-

Now... about the marrying part, I um... I-it's not that important... That... I don't know why I circled that but I'M TOO LAZY TO CHANGE NOW AHAHAHHA....

but GOSH, T*ey has always been radiating "big brother vibes" or "dad vibes" "my husband vibes" and just as someone as a friendly person, which is probably rare in NRC (I'm not saying definitely but at first eye would seem approachable and kinda is-), and I would throw my problems at him (which is me crying over Cookie Run Kingdom lore), but at the same time, I would like him to pour out his own problems, just a tad bit, or at least just let him know I am here for him. With whatever I said above, he might be exhausted, mentally and physically (from his own schoolwork and vice dorm duties), and I personally, no matter the person, just don't like to see them be all pent up and frustrated with themselves or with someone else because it's unhealthy (I won't force it, though).

Gosh... T*ey is just so weird and confusing that peeling his character layer by layer is actually a lot, but also very complicated, because the (direct) information given to us about him is quite little, and a lot the time is deducing from what he does, his character and behaviour in the series. BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I ROLE WITH- GOD I HATE HIM *kisses him*

but yeah, I'm gonna end it on this note because other things I want to say would just be time consuming and this post has been long enough- :")))))

#twisted wonderland #twst #trey clover #twst analysis #twisted wonderland analysis #honey.txt #honey.thoughts #honey.rambles #ask game.exe #honeymilkdepresso.exe

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wickedpact · 3 years ago

Text

heres a transcript of that gina & greg interview i mentioned yesterday. literally nothing new is in this, but theres a lot of info in this that was scattered in varying interviews/podcasts and i like having all of it in one place for future reference purposes

(link to vid)

Patrick: Hey everybody, this is Patrick Cavanaugh from comicbook.com here to bring you a very special conversation about Netflix's The Old Guard, which just debuted last week, and everybody has seen it-- I believe people have seen it by now, so that's very exciting. And to dive deep into this film, we're actually very lucky to have the film's director Gina Prince-Bythewood, who also directed Love And Basketball and Beyond The Lights here. Hello, Gina.

Gina: Hey.

P: And we're also joined by the film's writer, as well as the writer of the original comic book series, The Old Guard. Also, you might know him from his DC Comics work, Batwoman, and Lazarus, to name a few of his titles. We have Greg Rucka! Hello, Greg.

Greg: Hello!

P: So this film just first debuted last week, and I know you guys have been inundated with fans, just loving it. And let's just get to what fans want to know, right off the bat; I'm sure you're getting daily questions about this because there's so much for an expanded universe. So let's set the record straight: will there be a Tiger King crossover?

[everyone laughs]

Greg: Uh, we're planning an animated series with giant Mech suits, and, unbeknownst to a certain franchise, we're going to crossover with Transformers and-- no. Come on. [laughs]

P: Okay, alright, we’ll hold onto that big crossover stuff. And I know Netflix, of course, hasn’t fully announced what the future might be for Old Guard, but I'm just kind of curious if you guys have had any recent conversations about what you'd like to do in the future—theoretical, nothing concrete, of course. But since the film has come out and you've seen fan feedback…?

Gina: I will just say, obviously, it's an incredible compliment that people want to see more. It means we did our job in this. It was very important that this film has a beginning middle and end. We wanted to focus on this.

Greg: Yeah.

Gina: And get it right. Having people want more is an incredible gift and I would say those conversations were really… Greg and I, early on in talking through the story... knowing Greg knows where this thing goes --and it's pretty incredible-- helped me in terms of directing this one. So I will say we've had those conversations early on.

Greg: Yeah Gina’s absolutely right. One of the things that I'm really-- one of the many things I am proud of is that the movie is a whole, you certainly leave it going ‘okay, there could be more, I can see how there is more’. But it is a complete work. It is not contingent and does not need anything else. That said, there were plenty of times we were having conversations and would jokingly be like, ‘oh that'll be in the next one, we'll do that in the next one. We had to cut this so we’ll put it in the next one’.

P: I'm sure people would be very thrilled, as would I. So we’ll try to remain patient since it's only been out a week--

Greg: I think that's reasonable.

P: [sarcastic] I mean, fans are nothing but reasonable--

Greg: [very loud laughter] You know what 'fan' is short for right? Fanatic.

P: [laughs] So Greg, I'm curious. You know, since this is a pretty unique situation where you wrote the original books but then also came to write the script-- which doesn't always happen all that often. I was kind of curious what that process was like and if, when revisiting that core story, if you were tempted to kind of go off into a new directions, you know, uncharted territory? And how you managed to stay faithful to that story.

Greg: So when Skydance initially acquired The Old Guard, Matt Grimm and Don Granger were the guys that I was working with. And they were very clear that they had acquired it because they loved the source material. So when I was doing the adaptation, it was ‘adapt this story to be told in a screen format, there are changes that have to be made’. I didn't see it so much as like ‘I can go in a different direction!’ as ‘it's a really rare opportunity to have a second bite at the apple’. Most writers don't get to tell the same story twice. And even with the collaborative nature of comics, making a movie is far more collaborative. So… being able to benefit from a lot of very smart people-- and then when Gina came aboard, and working very closely with her on the screenplay, you know, taking her notes, and talking at length about it was… I mean, I love the comic we made, I'm very proud of it. But I think this is a superior story. Because it allowed me to fix mistakes I had made. And I think that it certainly works as the film that we wanted it to be, but it has a lot more nuance and a lot more ‘shading’ than the comics ever could have had. So yeah, I mean, I'm very proud of the work we've done.

P: Yeah, as you should be, definitely agree with that. And I know, Gina, you've spoken about how you treated the source material essentially as a Bible as the blueprint for adapting the movie. So a question kind of for both of you, I was curious what scene or sequence were you most excited to bring to life? And then what scene were you most apprehensive about whether or not you could pull it off as faithful to that original?

Gina: For me, I mean, there was there were certainly a couple... Joe and Nicky in the van.

Greg: [nodding] Yeah.

Gina: Such a beautiful moment in the comic. And I wanted to get it right. I knew the actors really wanted to get it right. As soon as we started shooting, I was like, 'oh yeah, they're killing it'. Also Booker in the mine, the speech that he gives to Nile, it's everything to his character. It explains both Booker and Andy; where they are, and why they are the way that they are in that moment of time. And I know that as a director, I saw a perfect take. But going into those, you hope that, ‘am I able to evoke what I need to evoke in the audience?’ I think that the hardest really was the Kill Floor, given how iconic it is in the comic. It's just so beautifully drawn by Leandro, it pops off the page. So ‘how am I going to be able to do the same thing on film?’ But it really kind of boiled down to ‘what is the story [of the scene]’ and really focus on that first, but also wanting to really give a bit of a homage to what Leandro did too, which was my use of silhouette throughout it.

Greg: Yeah, I think that… Gina just listed all of the scenes. I mean, I wanted to see the armored car, that was enormously rewarding for me… I couldn't wait to see the killing room floor... You know, when we talk about moments of adaptation, I actually —and I thought this was really well handled in the movie in particular— Nile’s death wasn't wasn't easy in the comic, because it needed to have heart. You know, Kiki's performance and the way it's shot is just, it's phenomenal.

P: And obviously you can't really talk about this movie, which is this big action-fantasy movie, without talking about that scene between Joe and Nicky. I'm curious what both of your reactions have been to seeing that moment hit so hard with so many fans.

Greg: I'm overjoyed that we're able to give that to so many people. I am also frustrated that it's so overdue. While I don't think that either Gina or I felt that this was… It was important and special because it was important and special between these characters. But, you know, I mean I’m in that place where I recognize why we are getting the response that we are, and, I'm frustrated by the fact that it's 2020. And… apparently we're the first people to have done this? And you can say that about a lot of the reactions, you can say that about the reactions to Kiki's Nile. You can say that about reactions about Charlize portraying Andy. There’s a piece of me that's like ‘guys, we didn't invent the wheel here. All we did was show you, THERE’S A WHEEL HERE!’. So.

P: Yeah, it's interesting and it is frustrating that it is 2020 and we have to refer to this as an anomaly. That this is not the norm, that as you said, this is we're showing people that the wheel exists. And so Gina, you know, between having a film with two powered, seemingly super-powered characters, in a comic book adaptation, which is largely been devoid of such characters. [I think he meant to say female powered characters?] and being a black woman, directing a comic book adaptation— again, something in 2020 that we have to treat as a shocking revelation— I was curious, if you felt any sort of pressure about that on set, or if it was like just a confidence in the material, and support from your collaborators, that it wasn't even an issue?

Gina: Um, are you talking about the scene-?

P: Just the project as a whole.

Gina: There was a reason I took this film, because it moved me. It has to start there. There's all these things; I love putting a black female in the world, I love putting Nicky and Joe in the world, I love putting Joe’s character in the world. Those are all such incredible driving forces. But foremost, I have to feel and care about the characters in the story. And I did. And so, for me, it felt... I mean I was honored to be able to be the one to give these characters a life up on screen... or in that big screen in your living room. There's, of course, enormous pressure. Not only just doing a film, like the bigness of it. Certainly me being a woman, me being a black woman, and doing this when nobody has done it before… It's about proving myself and proving that women like me can do this, that we do like action, that we can shoot action… Just changing that narrative. So there's pressure to get it right and do a good job, but I feed off of that. It made me work harder because I felt like I absolutely had a responsibility to get it right.

P: And we've talked about Kiki a few times as Nile, of course. And Gina, I know you said it was within five seconds of meeting her that you knew she was the right one to play Nile. I was curious, how did the rest of the casting process go? Did everybody get hired that easily? Or was it a harder search to round out the ensemble?

Greg: Yes. I’m curious too!

Gina: You know, I knew going into this that I wanted great actors for every role and it's pretty amazing how many of my first choices are in this film. I mean Matthias Schoenaerts who plays Booker is an incredible actor and I knew I wanted him from the get-go. We were told he doesn't do films like this, but he wanted to meet, which was the first thing, like, ‘oh my gosh it’s on me, don't blow this meeting’ and he said again to my face, ‘I don't do these movies, but I love this movie’ and he loved the character Booker. And after that conversation and hearing my vision, he was in, which was amazing. Marwan Kenzari, I saw him in this independent film called Wolf—

Greg: Yeahhhhhh.

Gina: Phenomenal. And he was supposed to read for the part. We had a meeting over FaceTime. Then, Zoom was not what it is now. And it was such an incredible meeting. He was so passionate about the material. So passionate about the character Joe. So passionate about wanting to give that speech. His energy… I just said 'you don't need to read, like, you're Joe'. Luca Marinelli, who plays Nicky, I saw his audition. He has this depth to him, those eyes.. where you just, you felt everything, you felt his soul. But I needed to do a chemistry reading, as I would with any love story. And so, we flew him in to read with Marwan. They did this incredible improv, and it was so obvious that these two were Joe and Nicky. It was a really beautiful moment as a director to just… know, and I was so excited to show everybody what they had. It leapt off the screen, their connection; they’d never met before but, immediate connection. Chiwetel Ejiofor, I mean… [awed silence]

Greg: Chiwetel... yeah.

Gina: Yeah. To hear that he wanted to be in this and work with me on this, I didn't need anything else at that point. He's truly a genius. Charlize, you know, there are very few women who can work in the space and we believe them. And that's the thing about her work, and her action, we believe her. And we needed that for Andy. And of course she's a great actress, so it was, you know, that was kind of a no-brainer. So, lastly Harry Melling, you know our villain. It's funny, Don Granger, at Skydance, says you've done a good job with your villain if the audience wants to punch him in the face. Harry brought that reality of those templates of Mark Zuckerberg and Martin Shkreli and really rocked it.

Greg: I had, you know, I'm the screenwriter, right? And I am pretty much involved in the production at the director’s sufferance, and Gina was so gracious to want me present-- and more than that, want me present and say things, right? As opposed to ‘stand here and be quiet’, but I remember when Kiki… when they knew they wanted Kiki, like in that window before all the paperwork was done and so on. Throughout most of the casting I wasn't hearing a lot from Gina, just the occasional update. Like ‘I think we've got…’ and then the Kiki audition came in, and Gina, you called me, Granger texted me, Grimm texted me. And it was all the same thing. It was all ‘we have found Nile, oh my god, there were these two scenes and she had us howling in one and weeping in the other and she is perfect’. And the exuberant joy, you know, I remember you on that call being like ‘NO, THIS IS HER!!’. It's like, this is gonna be awesome.

P: So, and to open things up a little bit more to the actual mythology of the film and the comic book series, I think one of the coolest things is that this film doesn't entirely explore is why these characters come back to life? But we also don't entirely need to know that to just… witness this slice of time in their journey. So I'm kind of curious, maybe Greg you have more insight on this, but I'm curious if either of you have those ideas in your head of what the root of this, you know, blessing or curse, the curse of immortality? Or is that just stuff that's entirely irrelevant to this journey?

Greg: I think it's irrelevant… to the journey of the first film. That the story is a self-contained story and you don't need to know why they are immortal. And I think that the film actually does tell you, not specifically, but the film does provide you with enough information to allow you to draw certain conclusions. Because there are really a limited number of ways that they're going to get this way, right? We do not, for instance, see Nile fall into a vat of regeneration juice, right? That's not why Nile comes back. There is a mythology. We know the mythology. We know the why and that's for later. Yes, maybe it will become relevant to the story, but for this story that was told as it was told? No, you don't need to know why.

Gina: The striking thing, when I read the script for the first time was I didn't… I didn't care. Like, I didn't need it. And that surprised me because I know Greg had talked about another company who was interested in the project [Gina doesn’t say, but it was Sony lmao] kept asking ‘you have to tell us why though, in this story, an audience needs to know why’. He was absolutely right [for disagreeing with Sony]. Because I didn't need to know why.

Greg: It's the Rian Johnson School of, you know, it's Looper. ‘We can spend two hours talking about time travel or you can accept that we're in time travel. Which is it going to be?’ And I think that that is one of the most brilliant storytelling decisions made in the last 20 years in film! Literally 'here it is—DOESN’T MATTER, MOVING ON!’ you know.

P: Yeah. It's definitely a bold direction to take. And to have an issue with 'oh, well, we never learn [about the] immortality!' proves that you just miss the point of what the movie is, and that that stuff is kind of irrelevant for right now. Although I do kind of hope that because it's on Netflix someone's expecting like a post credit scene, but it's the autoplay feature, right? [Greg and Patrick talk over eachother, laughing]

Greg: We did talk about that button as a post-credit scene, the Booker [scene]—

Gina: That was originally supposed to be a tag.

Greg: And there was, for a while, the contemplation of ‘maybe we can still [put the Booker scene in as a post-credit scene] and really that'll be like a great big reward for those people who actually watch credits on Netflix. It’s like, you got a bonus scene!’

P: So another, you know, people are loving the characters, they're loving the performances, but also the action is so cool in it, and it feels reminiscent of some other films. But the urgency and efficiency of all of the action sequences always feel like they have a point, and they're not just ‘look what we can pull off this week!’ You know, it's not John Wick on a horse fighting motorcycles because we don't need to do that. It's, you know, always to a point. So I'm kind of curious Greg, what does an action scene look like in your script? And then Gina, what was your whole motivation for putting these action scenes together?

Greg: I had two approaches in this script and used both. Sometimes I would write the sequence as you know, as a series-- this is what is happening, ‘he swings and then his head goes flying’ or whatnot. But knowing very well that unless the script needed to see-- because the script has to specify what is a must. It's a must. It's a must document. ‘We must see this’. ‘We must know this information’. So for a lot of the time, I would sort of drop into a narrative voice and say, ‘okay, now we watch the five of them proceeded to kick every ass and take every name that they come across and please bear in mind you are watching over 10,000 years of combat experience, combined between them’. And then that's the description of an action sequence, right? The screenplay… it's a construction document. It's not the interior decorator’s document. It's not even the Foreman's document. It's an architectural document. And then you give it to the Foreman of the whole production, who then goes, ‘I agree, these are the important things’, and then you get out of their way and watch them do the thing that they have, you know, become an expert at doing to make it happen.

P: Gina, what's your reaction when you read Greg’s script saying, ‘oh, you know, just five immortal warriors demonstrating 10,000 years of combat experience’?

Gina: It's like ‘oh shit’. [everyone laughs] Like that's a very cool thing to read—

Greg: But how do you film it?

Gina: Yeah, exactly! Then you start at the beginning of the scene and 'what character can we reveal in the scene'? And when you start like that, it's less overwhelming. Because the best action sequences for me, when I go to the movies, are those that have a story to them and that are character driven, that have an emotion. So I really started there in the vision of what they should be and just working with my incredible, incredible stunt team, Jeff Habberstad and Danny Hernandez and Bryson Counts[? I dont know who that is]. Designing these fights to tell this story, to showcase this part of character, to further the story. And that was important as well, that we never wanted this film to feel like… rushing through the story to get to each action sequence. All of this works seamlessly. The quiet moments are just as important as the action moments. And so that was exciting to me. But being able to tell the story, reveal character, that was fun. And then it's ‘yeah, how do we choreograph so it feels as if these characters finish each other sentences, so to speak, in terms of action, knowing where the other is going to be, knowing when somebody's out of bullets and need another clip?' Like all those things, the way that they're always picking up used guns and used clips, just this dance. And it was very cool, you know, to really put that together and see what the team came up with. And then to see the actors embody that, bring character, bring performance to that. Which is why it was so great that I had the actual actors doing most of the work, so that we can see that performance.

Greg: I think you used a word that I think clearly came from what Gina’s describing and talking about with working with Danny and Jeff and Bryson. Which is 'efficient'. Like, if you watch the film, you will see that there is only one sequence where Andy is ever firing more than twice, and it is on the killing room floor. After that, whenever she fires a gun, it's one bullet. It goes exactly where she wants it to go. Everything she does becomes an issue of ‘her style is efficiency—‘

Gina: Yeah, that was a big—‘brutal efficiency’ is a term we talked about often, where they know a kill shot. They are not the type that are going to go in an environment and spray. It's lazy and not who they are. They are not going to ever hit someone by accident. They are too good. And their moral code is not like an ordinary For Hire who are just trying to get the target by any means necessary.

P: Yeah, and also speaking to what I feel set these action sequences apart from other action films is, we're used to, you know, like thumping techno or hard rock or something kick in. You know, I don't think anyone had like, you know, Frank Ocean being in an action film on Netflix on their 2020 Bingo cards. So I'm just kind of curious how you put that soundtrack together and what that process was like.

Gina: Yeah. I love music so much. It's so much a part of me as an artist. And for me, I love songs for scores, songs that can evoke an emotion, and elevate a scene or the emotion of a scene without taking it over. And music for this film was so important, to the tone. It was such a balance. This is a violent film, yet I never wanted it to feel like a celebration of violence. The fact that there was a cost to the killing and then motion to the killing. So always wanted to keep that in mind-- and music really helped with that. There's also a thing of, you know, I'm the first audience and I actually don't like heavy metal. So, it annoys me when I watch a movie and it's this non-stop thump. In the rectory —spoiler alert— when Andy kills 19 people, the music I chose was important because it took away the sting of that. I didn't want an audience to revel in ‘oh my God, she killed 19 people’. No, it was ‘she killed 19 people and you see on her face that this was not fun, this was not easy’. You see that on Nile’s face when she walks out, and the music helped that. I wanted the music to feel operatic, because what happened in that room did have that depth of emotion, so music again— so important for vibe and tone and it was fun to find these songs that could do exactly what I wanted them to do.

P: Greg, the narrative is definitely very faithful to the first two Old Guard series and, you know, blends together in this compelling and unique way… Just as a —you know, we are comicbook.com— so coming from the purest sense of interpreting the narrative... [Greg laughs] like there's definitely the flashback with Achilles from the comic book, and then also the flashback to Booker's hanging scene. Those are our absent from the film. And I was just curious if those were ever in the script or if you want to rework them for the future…?

Greg: No, I mean we also had, in the original series, the flashback that sort of accounts the Joe and Nicky, ‘we killed each other’, ‘many times’ sequence as well. There were drafts where all of that was there. And sometimes in greater detail than others. There was a version where that hospital scene— [in the movie] you get just the right amount of… when Booker's relaying it to Nile in the mine. But, you know, there was more to that, and you can see sort of Achilles' story’s presence in the mine, right? There's a glimpse of the painting. So those things weren't erased as much as… when you make a comic, every choice you are making is an efficiency choice. ‘You have X many pages, how are you going to spend them?’ And I'm not a filmmaker. I'm the guy who wrote the thing. But one of the things I can tell you when watching is that it's the same calculus but exponentially. It is— every single thing you are doing is asking if it's serving your narrative. And I think the trade —because it is a trade— of the Achilles backstory to build the Quynh story has a benefit that the Achilles story alone didn't have, in that the Quynh story —especially as it's relayed in the movie— not only does it illuminate Joe, Nicky, Booker, and of course Andy, but it's also Illuminating to Nile, in a way that… talking about Achilles would have been repeating a beat. Because as beautiful, and as important, Achilles is to Andy's character… Booker conveys that heartbreak with his story, right? So it becomes an efficiency question as much as anything else. I mean, that that's really what it comes down to.

P: Speaking to some of the changes again, I don't want to get to spoiler heavy but there's definitely a big change with one character and their possible fate. Don't want to ruin anything for anyone, so trying to play it safe.

Greg: [laughing] Yeah, how are we supposed to answer this, Patrick?

P: Why don't we just text each other? [everyone laughs] Well, I'm kind of curious. One character's trajectory has changed a little bit. What were the discussions like over, you know, altering their trajectory and what that could mean, you know, for their future adventures?

Greg: Well, how do we talk around this?

P: Also, if anyone's been watching this for 40 minutes and hasn't seen the movie, they've got to adjust their priorities.

Gina: I would say, it was about adding more jeopardy and stakes. It absolutely did that. What I love so much about the story and what Greg created is that these characters are mostly immortal. So there is always that threat. But it just added another level to that. But it also crystallized so well… the fact that the moment that Andy is truly saying ‘I'm done’ a new Immortal shows up in Nile. So it just seemed to work really well and, you know, obviously having Greg be so on board with that and take it and run with it was really important.

Greg: It externalizes the conflict beautifully. And I believe I think David Ellison at Skydance likes the term downward pressure, I believe. [Gina smiles, Greg sees] Did you hear that? Did you hear that during editing? [Gina nods] But it does. Look, here's a fundamental problem; it's actually one of the problems at the heart of Force Multiplied: what's jeopardy to an immortal? Cuz it's kind of, you know, as Joe says, ‘what are you gonna do, tough guy? Kill me?’ You know, ‘if I go, I go. I don't know when I'm going’. So you you need to be able to inject into the story some level of jeopardy. You want to heighten the stakes. And it also externalizes that particular character’s conflict.

P: Gina, hopefully I don't put you too much on the spot with this question. But, you know, any time there's a big comic book project announced its, you know, fans start saying, oh, I'd love this person who's done action movies to do it’ or ‘this person who’s already done 10 Sci-Fi movies…’, you know, like Taika Waititi can't direct every movie.

Gina: I would love him to!

P: I'm just actually kind of curious, Gina, if there are any directors that you're particularly a fan of who don't necessarily have the same, you know, Marvel DC, Star Wars experience that that you'd love to hear get announced as tackling, you know, a big budget comic book movie.

Greg: I would like to know too.

Gina: Certainly, I'm excited about what Victoria Mahoney's going to be doing-- she just did second unit [director] on Star Wars, first woman to ever do that. I dig her brain so much and her aesthetic. I'm really excited to see what she's going to do in the action space, certainly.

P: Yeah, very cool. Really looking forward to her career for sure. And I think we're just about out of time here. We were down—

Gina: [raising her hand] Can I ask a question real quick? Sorry, I just need a definitive answer on this because I got called out on Twitter and I asked Greg--

Greg: [laughing] Ohhhhhhh—

Gina: So is Old Guard, is it a graphic novel? Or is it a comic?

Greg: You got to answer that Patrick.

P: Oh boy.

Greg: [laughing] Literally he's watching all credibility start to evaporate if he doesn't get this right. [holding up a comic of Opening Fire] This is a what?

P: I mean… part of me, knowing that it is part one of a three-part overall series… You know, my brain goes to ‘trade paperback’, you know, like it's a volume collecting a certain amount of issues. But if you ask me before volume 2 came out, it would be collected as a graphic novel, but… they're all comic books. They're all just comic books, everybody. Let's just take it easy.

Gina: Okay, thank you.

P: That's my answer.

Greg: Thank you. Thank you. I think that is the appropriate answer.

P: They're all just comic books. Take it easy.

P: Yeah, but I am curious. Of course, one of the interesting things about the film is that over the course of hundreds… thousands of years, these characters, the old guard have kind of influenced humanity in some definitely interesting ways… And ultimately for good, is a little bit of what we're seeing in the film. And I can't help but wonder… is it possible that the old guard could have unintentionally influenced the world for bad? And have some negative ripples come from their actions, or do I have to wait for a sequel for that?

Greg: I think that is a very reasonable and logical question to ask, especially when you know, there are 19 dead bodies lying in a church. You know what I mean? There is a certain amount— and it's almost fatuous to talk about it but there is always the doctrine of unintended consequences. I will say this goes to something else— and I'll say it really quickly because I know we're running out of time. I think one of the things that I really, really loved about what's being said, in the movie, is that at the end of the film… The definitive statement is, if you take away everything about immortality, what it's saying is that… our choices matter and our actions matter and they matter in ways and to people that we will never see and never know of. We try to put right in the world by doing right. And we do that without ever seeing what the ramifications of it are. And sometimes we're going to succeed, gloriously, and sometimes we're going to fail and we may never know that either, right? It's the choice paralysis that that you get from cheating in The Good Place, right? I can't eat or drink or move because morally it's all wrong, right? But the takeaway from the film is that, ‘yeah, your life matters and what you do with it matters and it matters to people that you're never ever going to see.’

P: So yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's a great positive, you know, message for us to leave on. And I definitely think that comes across in the film, especially, you know, from the characters like Joe and Nicky just professing… you know, it's about the time that you have. And you don't know when your number is going to be up. So you just try and do as many good things before that happens as you can, and hopefully the world responds to that. So I really connected with that message in the film. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. The Old Guard has been out for… five days. So I look forward to reuniting--

Greg: Does it feel longer to you. Gina? It feels like it's longer for me. [Gina laughs]

P: I look forward to reuniting in maybe 10 more days to talk about the sequel and spin-off and the prequel and all that sort of thing. [Greg laughs] But for now, The Old Guard is still on Netflix. And of course don't be tricked into watching any post-credit scenes because you might end up watching, you know, The Great British Bake Off. Well, thanks so much guys, it was a pleasure.

#tog interviews #i dont remember the tag i use for transcripts

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bigskydreaming · 3 years ago

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Hi! I was reading a fanfic and it brought up Roy and Dick's fight, which I see a lot of in fics but never what they fought about and consequently why they don't talk. I thought it was a vague excuse/reason why Roy was Jason's friend not Dick's anymore but this fic brought up when Dick was batman so I was wondering if there was actually a fight between them? Btw I really enjoy your metas! They're v thought out and well articulated. Also it's v easy to separate what's your opinion and what's fact which is. Very helpful for me

Yeah this is one hundred percent a fanon thing that's kept deliberately vague to justify why Roy in his friendship with Jason seems to have no positive thoughts or concerns about Dick whatsoever. Now granted, Dick and Roy are not nearly as close in the New 52 as they were pre-Reboot. The lack of their friendship there is definitely one of the things I disliked most about the Reboot - and I actually don't care if Jason and Roy are friends tbh, its the total erasure of his history with Dick as if he can't be friends with both, that like, bugs most.

But so like, yeah, Roy and Dick aren't super close when they interact on the Titans in the New 52, but there's literally nothing in any of their interactions that explains the complete absence of him from Roy's life or a reason that Roy would like, hate him the way he tends to in a lot of Jason-centric fics.

When you factor in pre-Reboot stuff though, it starts to get a LOT more.....uh wyd? And this is why I have trouble buying that people just write Roy and Jason the way they do because its the only thing they know from recent comics. Like one, most fans talk about how they don't even read the source comics, so there's no reason their knowledge of the characters or events would be limited to just recent comics if they're going off wiki summaries and scans anyway. And second, most fans AREN'T limited in their knowledge to just recent comics.

Like, the second people start writing Roy and Jason and Kori but with their pre-52 characterizations and references to events from THAT timeline, it all gets very messy, the way they're like, completely antagonistic towards Dick a lot of the time. Because Roy and Dick were always solid. Yes, they fought. A lot. But they always, ALWAYS made up afterwards. They had conflict about Roy's drug addiction - it didn't stop Dick from being there to support him through rehab, or Dick being the first person Roy called to help him get Lian after he learned of her existence. Dick literally held Lian before Roy ever did? He's the one who first put her in Roy's arms for the first time.

(Which is the prime grudge I and most Dick Grayson fans have about Roy and Jason fics which make Jason like, the absolute apple of Lian's eye. If you want to expand Lian's circle of loved and trusted ones to include Jason as Roy's friend and thus her uncle, like go for it! But there's zero reason that should require invalidating and erasing the fact that Dick was this little girl's adored godfather and uncle for pretty much her entire life. And the way Dick is just shoved offstage from Lian's life entirely, to slot Jason into his place as though they're completely interchangeable, its like....THAT'S the kind of thing that gets people irey about how Jason 'steals' Dick's dynamics and character relationships.

Because there's nothing saying they both can't be major players in Roy and Lian's lives! But just that they're not interchangeable! You need to develop the specific role Jason plays there WITHOUT just overwriting everything Dick actually did in relation to the two of them pre-Flashpoint, which is what you're drawing from the second you write Lian, unless you're specifically going with the few appearances we've had of her within literally just the last year.

But I mean, when people just search and replace Dick Grayson in all Roy and Lian's pre-Reboot stories and act like Jason was the one doing all of that instead.....why wouldn't fans of the source material be annoyed by a character getting credit for interactions and things done for Lian and Roy that Jason literally NEVER DID, while at the EXACT SAME TIME, conjuring some mysterious, unnamed 'Falling Out' that Roy and Dick had, that was clearly all Dick's fault, and resulted from him being basically excised entirely from Roy and Lian's lives?

Same with Kori, for the record, and like despite being Dick's ex, she and Dick have NEVER been like, estranged? She and Dick have often been close even after their breakup. None of it makes any sense, and the fact that a lot of fans don't even try to make it make sense or justify it, and expect other fans to just be fine with settling for an inexplicable reversal of Dick's every actual dynamic with these characters while setting up Jason to occupy the exact same role Dick played in these other characters' lives, like.....lol. Its fun.)

Anyway, back to your question, like, there are fights you can go with pre-Reboot as the source of various conflicts between Dick and Roy - but again, I maintain its just as crucial that they're always written as getting past them. They have a very tempestuous relationship because they are the two people MOST likely to call each other on their shit, two of the two people WITH the most shit in common due to the parallels in their childhoods and the roles they've occupied in the Titans and the superhero community in general, and the two people most resistant to being called out on their shit by each other, lol. Mostly in that case because like, they do recognize that they have a lot in common and understand each other very well, so the second the other is calling them out for something, they're usually like "ugh, if HE'S saying this, its probably true and I am just not prepared yet to be wrong about this. I need more time being unjustifiably rawr about things." Its like that thing where they both look at each other doing something that feels familiar or calls back to their own reasons for doing something and they're like ugh I'm in this picture and I don't like it.

So they clash. A lot. But always with the implicit bedrock of like, there's nothing either of them can do or say to the other that will push the other away for good.

They fought over Roy replacing Dick as leader of the Titans when Dick's wedding fell apart, even though Roy actually didn't want to do it and was kinda pushed into it by the government, but again, Dick like, got over it and realized it was for the best and forgave Roy for it that very same issue. And on and on. It always went like that. So there's plenty of stuff that can be used or pointed at as a source of conflict between the two, but the part I'll always call unbelievable is the idea that they never make up after one of these fights. Why now? What fight, specifically, is so bad between them that despite everything else they've gone through AND gotten past, they can't get past this one? Y'know?

So yeah, that's my take on this. There is no definitive falling out between Dick and Roy as many fics like to point to in order to shove him offscreen and make room for Jason in Roy and Lian's lives, and personally, I just don't find it necessary and I actually think it makes Roy look REALLY bad. Because when you're not specifically detailing all the things that Dick has actually DONE for Roy, the lengths to which he's been there for his friend, and like, specifically invalidating each and every one of them as something that never happened in a particular fic, then literally anyone who reads that fic and has their own awareness of Dick and Roy's friendship is kiiiiiinda likely to be reading that and thinking wow what an ungrateful asshole, when Roy's just written as bitching about Dick with Jason and sandbagging him without any real explanation as to WHY, beyond just 'oh they had a fight years ago.'

(And coming up with some random awful thing that Dick did to justify Roy hating him now isn't like, a superior alternative, lmao, because again, its still just trashing one character for the sake of getting him out of the way of two other characters' friendship and people are going to think what they think about that).

Anyway, my now standard stock disclaimer that like, there doesn't actually need to be a canon fight obviously, for people to just write things this way and handwave that Dick and Roy had an epic falling out years ago and now they just hate one another or whatever, or just Roy hates him or vice versa. Obviously people are free to do what they want. They don't need a reason other than "I want to write it this way so Jason and Roy are friends and Jason doesn't have to 'share' him with Dick or have his friendship be overshadowed by their greater history together." That just happens to be a reason that no Dick Grayson fan is ever really going to be happy about, lol, for what should be perfectly obvious reasons, so it honestly shouldn't be surprising to people that fans of the source material often gripe about it.

Because yeah fanfic is a tremendous opportunity to transform the source material into something better, but if what's better for some fans actively takes away what was working perfectly well for other fans the original way, they're going to say that. Especially in a fandom where so many new fans take their view of the characters and their dynamics from fics rather than the source material - when fandom has that much of an influence on what new fans perceive to be 'canon,' fans are perfectly within their right to emphasize what is ACTUALLY canon and what isn't, so that new fans at least have the opportunity to determine for themselves what take they want to go with, instead of just accepting at face value that the nature of say, Dick and Roy's relationship is just that Roy hates Dick because of some mumble mumble ancient history vague mumble details not found mumble mumble fight.

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batarangsoundsdumb · 3 years ago

Text

hae interrogationes multae respondeant quia demens .

if you read this entire ask post you deserve a gold star and financial recompensation

Um, Obviously because when you’re adopted by a white guy you automatically become white duhhh

this is about this post lmao and yeah youre absolutely right, you have to hand your poc card in when you get adopted by a white guy.

Do you think Cass would listen to Yanni, the YouTube channel epic symphonic rock, or some other stuff? There's some cool mashups but idk if that's up your alley, I kinda feel like I'm pushing it with my weird taste of music by recommending an orchestra cover of metal, but i just love that sort of thing and mashups :P @harvestyourcherries

i haven’t heard of that? but in my personal (correct) opinion steph listens to classical music, and then both modern and older, and then also stuff like black sabbath, iron maiden, but also hardrock and hardcore. i like the idea of cass just liking the most extreme screaming songs full of noise and then also listen to pachelbel’s 370th sonata yanno? THANK YOU for the rec tho

speaking of ur cass playlist hc...reminds of the time (yesterday) i found 2 playlists randomly on spotify from the same user. one was abt 3 hours of instrumental/classical "dark" & "nostalgic" music. the other almost 11 hours of nothing but hardcore bass/synth/electronic music. just an incredible tightrope act to put on in public. the synth one was also called like "psalms for synth sluts" which is Also incredible

tbh i LOVE synth SO MUCH like for no reason at all but then also cannot handle a poppy electronic beat lmao. but this seems like the kinda thing i’d do but just in one (1) playlist bc i just sort songs by vibe instead of genre? that’s how i end up with britney spears and billy ray cyrus in the same playlist.

Oh, I want Kate Kane playlist next! It would be amazing if you could do one when you have time and will 🙏

how rude would it be of me to just say no? like sorry kate but idk you and also you seem way too keen on the us military for an institution that homophobically targeted you? (and also commits war crimes) but let’s unpack the fact that the institution that caused the death of your mom and sister and also got you blacklisted for being gay is still one you align with???

'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' 'yes i am' 'no you're not' --- when i tell you i fucking screamed LOL!!!!!!! i can imagine the cameraman not knowing if he should cut to commercial or keep it on these two weirdos fighting on stage (bruce definitely ruffled dick's hair/noogied him right??

about this post but yeah lmao. this cameraman just turns to like the audience to get a reaction and it’s just multiple moments of CLEAR shock.

you are the only funny person on this hellsite

how egotistical is it for me to say that i get this ask multiple times a month? bc it literally happens so often it’s hilarious to me.

Wish there was more john/Bruce content 😔😔😔 was so hungry I actually looked at canon media 😔😔😔 (Justice League Dark babeeeyyyyyy)

check out batman: damned for some mediocre content but at least it’s john/bruce (also very interesting story and stuff, just got very >:( over this weird part where harley quinn tried to r*pe bruce or something? it’s not for everyone)

dick grayson but he's nicki minaj

his anaconda don’t want none,,, unless......

Dick Grayson was never a cop, he played Marshall on Paw Patrol

you are SO right. also paw patrol is a fucking good show idc. that shit could’ve been the new steven universe on this hellsite.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CS1lI0bLI7-/?utm_medium=copy_link

...

why do people keep reposting my CONTENT. if you are not funny yourself don’t just grab shit off of tumblr and post it on insta,,, get a life. sidenote: should i start an insta and get all these ppl to take my content down that would be funny as hell.

Might I suggest for a Gotham City Meme: something about the true crime fandom thirsting for the rogues gallery

ok can i just say something slightly controversial?? no? i don’t find true crime ppl who are into criminals funny, that shits disturbing irl im not gonna bring that into my very chill universe.

i may have never seen a 'jason cleaning guns in sink' fic but i do know he WOULD

THANK YOU

bestie im sorry to say this to you but while you can, and people do wash their guns in the sink, that is a lot of lead in a very vital part of the kitchen.

people tend to do it in the bathtub.

WHY???? like damn why do you even have guns

i dont think i read many gun sink fics exactly but i have read lots of fics where jason cleanes his guns in the living room. usualy dissembles them and cleans them with a rag i think

lmao fair enough, like i think that’s a large part of what i remember as well.

if you say you've seen/read gun sink fics I believe you. I think those of us who didn't see them are lucky or maybe didn't search for fics by tags or something idk

i mean ive never sought them out but i HAVE seen them,, like definitely i know almost for certain.

saw your tags and I'm interested in Steph/Kara now. They would be the most chaotic couple <3

literally thoooo, i have a wip where they get together in a zombie apocalypse and like UGGGHhhh i am so in love with them.

I am the Breece anon. Thanks for the recommendation; am reading now. I’ve always been a hardcore Superman fan because I love my pure himbo farm boy. My logic is, if one Bruce is a Broose, then multiple Broose are a herd of Breece. And this is a hill upon which I will perish.

fair enough,,,, like moose, meese, goose, geese, bruce, breece. i get your logic and i stand by it as well. (glad you enjoyed the comic recs!!!!)

It's a beautiful day in Gotham, and you are a group of horrible Breece

OH my god dude lmao

there only being 42 fics on ao3 for tim and bernard is honestly so sad i need more

it’s like twice that now!!! we did it lads. (tho very sad that my fic isnt number one but like number 4 :(((( )

i'm too late you already did the poll lol but may i suggest bethy (bernard + timothy)

shit dude that wouldve been so fucking funnyyyyy. think ppl have just stuck to timber tho, tim/bernard kinda died down recently and i think it’s too bad, they’re a great couple and i love them.

Wait, hear me out

Bernothy @redlightofdawn

great recommendation (lmao this ask is from like a month ago) but very sorry to announce that NARDTH is the superior shipname

Wait, we know that bernard likes milfs (Tim's step-mom) but what about dilfs? gilfs?

Wait no, I regret sending that ask

these were two seperate asks and they’re HILARIOUS. in my personal opinion tho,,, milfs, gilfs, dilfs are just about vibes and bernard is just attracted to sexy ppl who may sometimes be milfs, dilfs, or EVEN gilfs.

crime in bludhaven would drop to half if nightwing had a boob window. in this essay i will-

WHERE’S THE ESSAY ANON, WHERE’S THE FUCKING ESSAY

Wait if Barbra and Tim r at opposite ends at all times what happened to Barbra once everyone’s Tim’s ever love before started dying lol

she won a lottery ticket and spent 2 weeks on a resort in the bahamas before returning home and finding out that the joker was arrested for tax evasion and then spent a month staying at her big tiddie goth girlfriend’s house before conner came back to life and she broke her pinkie playing table hockey.

Why is the opposite end thing so funny and compelling to me. Tim comes back from his depression quest for Bruce and Babs is now a literal god

lmao when tim loses his spleen barbara reaches nirvana.

Are you still taking music recs because I have three songs that remind me of Jason that I think you'd like

send to me or lose a toe

🌸 ⭐ put this star into the inbox of your favorite blogs. it’s time to spread positivity! ⭐🌸😋

thanks, i wont tho on account of i wont.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMduBy3Sr/

⬆️

This is the whole of Blüdhaven and everyone anywhere.

Nightwings ass alone saves more people in a calendar year and does more for so society than most heroes do their whole career.Also u are one of the funniest tumblr pages out there. The vibes are unmatched and the memes and tags ✨send me✨.Thank u and goodnight @julia-flow

fanksss also lmao.

That's going to be a little bit difficult to explain, but

There's some music that you listen to and you think, "oh my gosh, I can perfectly imagine Dick Grayson singing this song, with the same voice as the singer because that voice matches with Dick Grayson"?

oh yeah totally lmao. i have a lot of songs that i think are just entirely dick grayson yanno? kind of all of my playlists have that vibe, but i really find bleachers to fit with dick? idk.

"Lois lane/Superman" fics this, "Lois lane/Clark Kent" fics that, (/lh) let's get into the real good stuff. Some people ship Lois, Clark, and Superman as a throuple. Most popular fic tag for sure

yes totally, i think they’d be absolutely killer on ao3 and clark gets so fucking embarassed about it.

I miss your post, hope you’re doing okay!!

haha this was like 2 months ago, but i was doing fine then too! just didn’t have a lot of inspiration in terms of content.

Doot doot!

noot noot

I’m confused. What did DC do now? Like with nightwing? And another sibling? Please spoil everything for me

lmao they gave him a secret sister plotline where they had his dad cheat on his mom with tony zucco’s wife, bc dick’s life wasn’t traumatic enough yet.

sorry but it's so funny that batman is called "the dark knight" when the gotham city baseball team is called the gotham knights. it'd be like if a vigilante was running around new york called like "the scary yankee"

lmaooo no. but like yankee comes from dutch names or something so wouldnt it be HILARIOUS if gotham knights came from like german names and bruce would be running around called the dark KLAUS UND NIEK @graysonnightwing

(not a batcest shipper) it’s so funny to me that the responses are “i’m a batcest shipper because i can differentiate fiction from reality and and it doesn’t bother me personally, but i understand why you oils think it’s weird” to “i wish all batcest shippers a very fucking die”

yeah lmaoo. i personally basically flipped my entire stance around to ‘i dont care please leave me and everybody else alone’ bc i think there’s really no point in starting a moral dillema over some fucking fandom bullshit. Please just,,, go home,,, log off, find a nice forest to have a little walk in and remember that somewhere in history, somebody probably died in the place you’re standing. and you will also die someday, and somebody will have to look at your internet usage and see you fighting multiple people anonymously while being named ‘nightwingsbuttchin200186′ like... calm down, we’re all gonna die this is not the thing to worry about.

so since like "wards" don't really exist in modern society almost all the batkids are foster kids, right? i used to work in the system and imagine: monthly visits from social workers and guardian ad litems, bruce having to get permission to take the boys anywhere out of state, calling their social worker at like 8 a.m. like "yeah dick broke his arm again... a gymnastics accident this time...." their poor social worker. bruce send her a huge bouquet and box of chocolates every month to stay on her good side

i imagine the social worker just getting into the case like ‘yeah let’s get this kid a good guardian’ and then ending up having to work with 22 y/o bruce wayne and his 50 y/o dad. and so this social worker is like ‘okay we can work with this, this is the best home i can find’ and then like it ends up landing on its feet and then the kid gets adopted and then they get a call a year later like ‘uhm so hi, this kid tried to steal my tyres can i adopt him?’ and like 3 years later. ‘okay so basically, my neighbours’ kid imprinted on me and now they’re dead, can i keep him?’ two years later it’s like ‘okay so this assassin child-’

ever since I saw that one post of yours, the meme that's something like "I know that abba's backup dancer got me" with a picture of discowing, I've been haunted. Every once in a while I'll be minding my own business then the image of abba's backup dancer dick grayson aka nightwing aka discowing will flash in my mind and I'll be frozen in place. Today at work I was in the middle of folding clothes and suddenly once again discowing entered my mind and I suddenly lost the ability to see anything except He. Thank you.

wow. the IMPACT.

Braver than any US marine man props to you🤝

this shit is about the time i wrote an article on batcest, like man,,, the fact that i didn’t get cancelled is MIRACULOUS. also like,,, uh if anybody on here did gossip on me,, send screenshots i’d love to see it.

Hello, just wanted to say your article was great. Thank you for taking the time to provide an unbaised answer. It should provide people with nuances they couldn't possibly conjure on their own.

May I ask where your username originates from?

yes you may (also thanks!!!) i thought it up when i was trying to find an original username bc i didnt want to be called like ‘timdrakes something something’ or ‘jason todd something smoething’ or ‘dick grayson something something’ yanno? so i thought batarangs, they sound so dumb and that’s my username story... now it’s my whole entire brand lmao.

yno that bit in kick ass where red mist asks kick ass if he wants a hit of his blunt, was that the inspo for stoner tim

no? it’s bc i think stoners are hilarious and drugs are great. (dont do drugs tho)

How would u feel if someone actually wore one of those bruce or ollie pride shirts u edited

fenomenal next question.

Dick as lil huddy and Jason as James gave me radiation poisoning and now I’m screaming crying throwing up so thx for that

(Rico suave as Tim is perfect tho literally no changes needed)

i was so funny for that shit wasn’t i??? lmao i loved those weird ass fancasts

You're doing the Lord's work by providing us with all these Gotham/Metropolis citizens memes, thank you for being so relentlessly funny @nellethiel-aranel

you’re welcome!! i really enjoy making memes, but getting validation for my content and my memes is REALLY nice.

Bruce is such a slut in your memes and honestly i love that for him @rhodey-rhudert-rhodes-main

he’s that much of a slut irl too dw.

Bruce and Alfred have an emergency pride flag for the batkids. Oliver Queen printed an emergency "I love my gay son" t-shirt and as soon as Roy told him he was dating Jason, Oliver started wearing that shirt everyday and Roy always cringes when he sees it. Oliver also has an emergency "I love my lesbian daughter" shirt just in case for Cissie.

lmao YES i had a post like this bc like all of their kids/family members are so gayy

stop bringing back batfam fancasts it is not real it is not real it is not- 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

oh yes it is my darling.

did discowing burn down the notredam because he hates the bees? @allulily

no he did it bc fuck the french.

im gonna beg for 1 thing and 1 thing only. please please please put physical by olivia newton john on dick's playlist

okay then beg. bc i wont. physical reminds me too much of glee and that hurts me mentally.

your playlist is sorely missing some Madonna. Specifically Into the Groove, Like a Prayer, and Vogue

i’m scared of madonna that’s why she’s not on there. she haunts me in my dreams.

suggestion: son of batman by aaron dews for dick’s playlist🤩

sorry, i listened to it and the vibe didn’t agree with me.

Hear me out, metropolis citizens sending rare pair fics of Clark Kent x Superman fics to Lois to edit

yes, absolutely hilarious. even more funny if they send like physical copies, no address attached and lois sends it back marked with red ink, SOMEHOW

Imagine all the smut Clark must of read editing the fics

clark reads smut confirmeeed

NOT LOIS READING SUPERBAT PORN AND EDITING IT A 2AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

hc that alfred is a meta that boosts healing factor of the people around him. if the bats are injured as much as they seem to be they would be doing bat stuff MAYBE half the year. no one including alfred knows about this. whenever the kids move out they inexplicably dont recover from injuries as fast and feel better whenever they visit the manor they just chalk it up to homesickness. bruce just thinks he heals really fast. alfred thinks everyone doesnt take care of themselves properly @finchcollector

that’s actually such a great idea, but i think that alfred would find out and learn how to concentrate it better so he can help more people, bc he’s great and i love him.

One of your dickfast posts reminded me of that tweet that goes: 'so you've had sex how many times? Yeah technically that's not a bromance' lol that's dickwally or dickroy

literally tho. like that’s all of dick’s friendships. once it gets past a certain time dick is like ‘wow i wonder what it would be like to make out with wally, wally come make out with me’ and wally’s like ‘we’ve done this like 40 times, dick, you know what it’s like’ and dick is like ‘sorry are you complaining?’ and they just make out.

superfam and batfam associations??

-batman and superman

-dick/barabara and supergirl?

-conner and tim

-jon and damian

pls enlighten me I am confused

nope,,, uhm batman and superman, but dick and superman as well, and then conner and tim, jon and damian and steph + babs with supergirl

I came across a fic in which Wonder Woman calls Batman "Stella" (like Stellaluna, the children's book) and I can imagine the batkids hop on the trend and maybe copies of the book appear at random places (aka, everywhere Bruce frequents)

sorry can’t reciprocate that was the name of my high school chemistry teacher and it gives me nightmares to think about.

good human what are your pronouns?

wouldn’t you like to know?

I need me some gothamites preferring harley over joker memes

everyone prefers harley over joker youre just very fucked up if you dont

don't understand why people try to add like veteran policy to the batfamily

dick pulling out his veteran batfam member card so he can eat first: step aside, peasants

Do you know the song Simmer by Haley Williams? It (the first verse anyways) reminds me of Jason? It's about rage.

damn yeah i LOVE HAYLEY!!!! youre right thoo

Okay so I like listen to your stoner Tim Drake playlist 24/7 but would he listen to skegss? Also I keep adding songs mentally it’s killing me 😩✋🏼 Anyways,, I literally love and worship your playlist 😃🤞🏼 And uh yeah have a good day ✨

stoner tim drake playlist is lyfeeee. also dont know who skeggs is? i’m stupid? have a good day!!

All the Robins (and Batgirl) decide to trade costumes for one night just to fuck with Batman and all the villains in Gotham. @subspacecadet

batman knows it’s them youknow but like,,, what does he call them? he’s like ‘red hood?’ and 3 people answer and he’s not about to compromise some identities so he’s just Pissed.

I aspire to treat cops the way my dad treats them. This man is a 45 year old Asian immigrant to the US and the treats them like his pets. He talks about them like unruly children. Sometimes he pays off local cops to shut up and stop acting racist. And usually it works. I don’t know why but I can see Oliver Queen doing this

vibes... and also yes? oliver queen handing a local cop a donut to shut the fuck up lmao. but yanno i commit enough crimes to not really want to ever see a cop ever, so they kinda scare the everloving fuck out of me.

seeing as tim hasn't aged in years, that means he was 17 at peak emo tumblr era. im back on my emo tim bullshit and im not letting it go

emo tim had a wattpad account send tweet

People seem to think that batman is so dark and serious when the rainbow batsuit is right there. He wore it with no shame.

dude the 60s were a DIFFERENT TIME

dick grew up in a circus, jason grew up on the streets, and tim was probably raised by the internet

all of them cuss every other word and you cannot tell me otherwise

bitch i KNOW but dc has to change to an 18+ rating if they want to sell comix with swear words in them so we gotta deal with imagining the swear words in ourselves

thoughts on teen titans and young justice

haven’t seen teen titans on account of havent seen it and young justice was LITERALLY my favourite thing ever, tho i do gotta admit it’s not at all similar to the young justice comics unfortunately. i really wouldve liked to see timmy bart kon cassie and cissie animated on tv!!

ew ew ew how to delete batcest shippers I genuinely digust them

log off tumblr?

Okay as poc who was called racist for calling an Italian pastabrain: in the batfam are Italians bit Damian just yells various insults about the others being Italian. Just him yelling “What are you doing you moronic spaghettihead!” At steph etc

huh? i meant real italians. homeboy is telling steph he hopes she chokes on her fucking garlic.

I think it's dumb as hell to pull the batman is the best fighter in the batfam argument because like it's just irresponsible of Bruce to let his kids fight when they couldn't possibly be on his league or something

fair enough, but also like who cares they could all kill you just sit down and take a beating.

lady shiva, thalia al ghul and Selina Kyle are all milfs @notanothertimburtonenthusiastugh

unfortunately, i have to admit,,, you’re right

why tf didn't someone give joker a death sentence already? like he's a mass murderer...give him the electric chair treatment wtf

idk i think plenty of people would have tried to murder him already (boring answer is: he is a popular character so they can’t kill him off bc he brings in lots of money)

There’s no such thing as “ copaganda”.

all american media is propaganda. happy to clear this up for you

is it bad that I find lady shiva owa owa

no. find her as owa owa as you want.

aight I'm guessing the order of your favs in batfam:

1. tim

2. Steph

3. dick

4. Duke

5. the rest

you’re wrong but it’s cute that you tried, i generally don’t have favourites, but i have a special place in my heart for steph, tim, dick and cass. bc they were like my introduction to batfam. but damian, jason, duke, bruce, babs and alfred are NOT FORGOTTEN OR UNLOVED

oh my god i was literally just readily willing to believe that italians werent white ty for clarifying it was a joke im so dumb sdkvjskdfs

i mean some italians aren’t white? italian is a nationality as well as an ethnicity, so like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

since I saw so many people doing headcanons about the nationalities of batboys, I see Dick as an Italian.

dont know if youre serious or not, but sure.

super random but

jason 🤝 damian

old english

lmao fair enough.

tim absolutely has 1 gay uncle and his parents shit talk said uncle all the time so after bruce adopts him he specifically reaches out to this uncle to be like "heyyyy just so you know you majorly influenced my life yes i know i havent seen you since i was 5 and at the family reunion yes i know you dont remember my name idc thank you im gay too" and then they never talk again.

yuppp lmao that’s definitely something that could happen. i can also consider tim having no family members, like none. until he does like a dna test and he realises he has like an aunt living barely 2 miles away from him who’s like some illegitimate child of his grandpa.

I dare you one of them sends clark superman/clark fic and clark corrects the shit out of it and then goes like ps his dick is not that big, just telling as someone who has seen it. internet either explodes or goes who tf did he not fuck at this point.

i think everybody would call clark a buzzkill and try to cancel him over that.

so you're telling me Tim Drake wouldn't buy Starbucks?

no. dunkin donuts all the way

One of my favorite things is imagining people finding out jason came back from the dead and being like "oh no does he have magic powers now?!?!?" and he just pulls out a gun and tries to shoot joker

now he doesn’t even have the gun :) lmao

my favorite batfamily fanfictions are the ones where they use their shitty codenames, unironically, in any context

bruce gets codename ‘ugh’ everytime. he hates it.

crazy that tim being a 17 y/o ceo and a stoner who does brand deals are all actual canon things written in detective comics comics and not made up for shits and giggles by you, tumblr user batarangsoundsdumb @rowdeyclown

SO CRAZY HUH?

batman au where everything is the same but his utility belt is bright pink

absolutely, but i raise you, his boots light up like sketchers when he kicks people.

unbeknownst to the superhero fandom writers in the dcuniverse, clark and BRUCE are one of the most prolific fanfic writers in the superhero rpf tag on ao3. clark writes the best lois x superman angst, full of unhappy endings and scenes that are a so detailed you'd think you were in the middle of a superhero beatdown. bruce made an ao3 account to fuel "the do the butts match" thing, and makes batman/bruce fics from time to time. he wrote a superbat fic as a joke but ended up making it REAL porny. @concrastinator

dude they’re WAY too busy for that. Oliver Queen and Hal Jordan on the other hand are the most prolific fanfic writers in the superhero rpf tag writing what is Mostly porn.

When the dining table topic gets to politics, Steph says "eat the rich" as the solution

bruce just silently takes away her fork and knife while she’s talking.

#literally if you got through this i just respect you #this is mainly just for the people who sent me an ask in the past few mask #i hope your ask is in here :)#sorry for everybody else #ask #bataranswers #this took me 4 hours to do so i hope youre happy #also sidenote #does anybody know the latin translation for 'to become'#bc i just used future of 'esse' but it could be a different verb #who cares tho latin is a dead language #big congratulations to everyone who translates my sentence #here's a bonus sentence: tuam matrem futueram

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autisticcassandracain · 3 years ago

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I have many thoughts on the weird phenomena in the DC fandom and the Batfam fandom specifically where probably the majority of people just straight up. haven’t interacted with the source material. and almost all of those thoughts can be summarized as ‘lmao that’s weird and mildly concerning’.

and because I’m annoying I will list them all here right now <3

1. To preface this post, I mean, obviously, comics are inaccessible as all hell, both in the disability kind of way and the ‘you need to understand the concept of hypertime to fully comprehend the DC timeline’ kind of way. Because of this, even if you don’t have a disability that prevents you from reading comics, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at the amount of comics you need to read to have even a base understanding of a character and go ‘no thanks <3′ and just enjoy fanart and fanfic in a vacuum. Ultimately, this is fandom, this is supposed to be fun, it doesn’t really matter.

2. That said, it’s VERY weird to me that the majority of this fandom just straight up hasn’t interacted with the source material, and moreover, that it’s considered rude to tell people that they should do so. It’s especially weird considering the amount of fanon-only fans I’ve seen who straight up have a superiority complex over canon. The idea that it’s gatekeeping to tell fans of something to actually interact with canon is just. so weird, and a fundamental misunderstanding of what ‘gatekeeping’ actually entails.

3. But honestly I’m less interested in discussing the ways in which canon and fanon fans should interact with each other (personally, I think it would be helpful to create separate tags of some kind, but that’d require quite a big overhaul of the current fandom state) than in figuring out how this actually happened in the first place. On the one hand, it’s obvious; long-running superhero comics the way DC writes them have made themselves so thoroughly inaccessible that most people are simply too daunted to even try. Most media has a cohesive beginning and end (or at least, a planned end somewhere). Comics just... don’t.

But I do think it says something that, even among people who are clearly interested in the characters (since they have, you know, entire blogs about them), the effort to get into comics just seems to be too much to even bother. This really doesn’t bode well for the future of DC Comics. Obviously, I am no expert on anything at all ever, but I’d personally be surprised if DC survives beyond the few decades, at least in its current form/without a big overhaul.

4. But on the other hand, I don’t think the confusing state of DC Comics is the only thing to blame here. Fandom has a well-known problem with reducing any character down to archetypes to more easily ship and write fic/make content with. This problem is particularly prominent in fanfic, which, if you read enough of it, you’ll eventually start seeing not just the same tropes and trends, but essentially the same fics over and over again. And not just within the same fandom; everywhere, or every large fandom, at least.

Fanon Batfam is entirely built on a bunch of those tropes; insecure/depressed sadboy Tim, team mom with optional hidden trauma/emotional problems Dick, bad boy with a heart of gold + sadboy combo Jason, abused sadboy Damian/angry easily-villified-for-fic-reasons monster Damian, good dad Bruce for found family fic and bad dad Bruce for angst fic, etc. This all culminates in a found family dynamic that’s generic and malleable to whatever fic the writer wants to write.

(This isn’t getting into the ship fic, which I avoid like the plague because the vast majority of it is incest, but I’d bet real actual money that the tropes in those fics fall under what is often preferred by the Migratory Slash Fandom.)

By having a decent excuse not to get into canon (the inaccessibility of comics) and a, by now, well-established fanon fandom, many fans feel free to use the batfam fandom as essentially an excuse to write whatever fic with reduced archetypes and tropes they personally feel the itch to write, without having to bother with even consuming a canon. This is compounded by the fact that canon itself is often contradictory and frankly bad, meaning that whatever interpretation of a character you want/need to go for your fic is at least theoretically backed up by canon (for example, you can just as easily cast Bruce as an abusive shithole dad who his kids need to get away from as a loving father figure who cares deeply for his children), which you can always use as a defense if people question your characterization.

5. This focus on fandom trends and tropes over actual creativity or care for the characters is also visible in the way bigotry manifests in this fandom; namely, in literally the exact way you’d expect. The female characters and characters of colour are shuffled to the side, non-existent, vilified, and/or reduced to harmful stereotypes.

Barbara is probably the one I saw the most often in fanfic, but usually just as ‘Dick’s girlfriend’, and even then, she was often vilified for Dick angst (especially in fics about examining Dick’s trauma from his canon sexual assault; Kori also often gets the short end of the stick in those). After that, probably Stephanie, who fanon fans don’t really seem to know what to do with, so she’s basically just there as comic relief waffle girl, most of the time, though sometimes she can be used to either further Tim angst or further vilify Tim, whatever the fic calls for. Cass has gotten included more in batfam fics as of late, likely in response to critiques of fandom racism for leaving her out, but again, it’s clear people don’t actually know what to do with her. She’s often reduced to a racist stereotype of a quite, stoic therapist for whatever guy du jour needs it. That, or she’s in Hong Kong and just not there. Duke especially gets left in the dust in fandom, usually just being non-existent, but when he’s there, he’s almost always nothing more than the straight man for the actual fun characters to play off of. Talia probably has it the worst, though, and almost universally gets vilified by fanon stans in order to write sadboy Damian.

All of this is extremely predictable behaviour and falls entirely in line with general fandom misogyny and racism; ignoring or vilifying women and characters of colour, or using them as very minor characters at best. The only two characters of colour who aren’t regularly left out of fic are Dick and Damian, who are both also conveniently the two characters most often drawn and written in a whitewashed manner. In addition, there’s a real trend of demonizing Damian in fanon fics where he isn’t written as an abused sadboy, which I’d argue is in no small part due to fandom racism, considering Damian’s behaviour is in no way as bad as Jason’s, who doesn’t get anywhere close to the same demonization and gets woobiefied instead. I also find it convenient that Damian is probably the batboy who receives the most vilification in fic, when he’s the most obviously non-white of the batboys they’re willing to acknowledge.

Fandom often cries for more diversity in canon, only to ignore the diversity already there and focus on the same generic white guys. The batfam fandom is a brilliant example of this.

Which is not to say that fandom racism and misogyny isn’t present in the canon parts of the fandom (and canon itself); it absolutely 100% is. But I’ve found that canon fans are also more likely to like and care about at least one of the characters I’ve listed as ignored/vilified, and are willing to create and consume content for them, whereas fanon fans... aren’t, really. I’ve never seen a fan of fanon Cass the way I’ve seen fans of fanon Dick, for example. Obviously, this could just be by coincidence, or I’ve just surrounded myself with people like that, but it’s been a trend I noticed. Racism and misogyny is present in every part of this fandom and should be addressed as such, but I feel like it manifests the most blatantly in the fanon parts of this fandom.

(I’d also recommend the articles Migratory Slash Fandom’s Focus and Beige Blank Slates, which expand more on the type of fandom racism I think is especially prominent in the batfam fandom, as well as literally every article in the What Fandom Racism Looks Like series.)

6. All this leads me to conclude that the majority of fanon fans don’t actually like the characters all that much; they’re convenient excuses for them to participate in fandom. Which I also think is, in no small part, a reason why so many of them react so negatively to being told to pick up a comic; they came to this fandom specifically to consume it as a fandom, because they wanted the fandom experience without having to consume a canon.

This is not a phenomena unique to the batfam fandom (again, see the Migratory Slash Fandom), but it does fascinate me. While fandom is often said to be an experience focusing on transformative art, I think it’s also safe to say that, especially as fandom has become more mainstream, an increasing amount of people are looking to it less as a way to engage with their favourite pieces of media, and more as a type of media in and of itself. I think the reasons for this are similar to the reasons mass media entertainment like the MCU are so popular; you gain a lot of enjoyment out of it with very little risk involved.

By consuming the same fics of the same characters (or the same archetypes) over and over again, you are rarely at risk of being challenged or even disappointed. It’s often very clear right from the start whether or not a fic will appeal to you, and if it isn’t, it’s easy to just look for another one. It requires less emotional investment than most other types of media, even ‘popcorn media’ like the MCU - or, yes, DC Comics. It’s safe, it’s enjoyable, it’s comforting, like McDonalds, but just like McDonalds, it’s ultimately bland and unsubstantial.

7, TL;DR. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s like, wrong to enjoy the fanon version of the batfam without wanting to engage with canon, and I certainly don’t think it’s okay to harrass people over it. But I do think it’s in large part based on a desire to interact with fandom rather than other pieces of media because people are scared of being let down by those pieces of media (or worse, just uninterested in actually thinking), which is mildly concerning.

#long post #my posts #infodumping #btw i say this as someone who also has trouble consuming much more than popcorn media/fanfic due to emotional exhaustion #but it's not a healthy habit and it's something people can and should try to break out of #also obviously this isn't about EVERY fanon fan specifically so if this doesn't apply to you specifically great then move on

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actuallylorelaigilmore · 3 years ago

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2022 MOVIE OF THE WEEK #7

suicide squad. the first one, which like this poster, had far too much jared leto in it. basically i only watched this one because i wanted to watch the next one, even though i’d heard the only good parts of this one were will smith and margot robbie. and since my best friend wanted to see it, too, i knew we could complain our way through it so it wouldn’t be that bad.

it...actually wasn’t that bad? or at least, i was expecting much worse considering how many people seemed to hate it. yes, jared leto is a terrible joker and makes me feel defensive of the character’s legacy even though he’s not a character i care about that much. yes, birds of prey is the far superior incarnation of harley quinn and the whole movie felt racist and misogynistic as fuck.

it wasn’t in any way my favorite DC movie, but it also could’ve been worse. we did manage to watch all of it, for example. and deadshot and harley quinn really were good! i so badly want a whole movie of just them.

david harbour was also a nice surprise. as my current living Bipolar Hero i adore him and keep coming across him in little bit roles and thinking, you’ve been doing better for yourself careerwise than i realized! obviously he’d made his way into the MCU, i was happy for him about that, but i didn’t know until recent movie nights that he was also in this and one of the james bond movies years ago.

as for the plot of this one? they really threw too many characters together to give any of them the attention they deserved, which wouldn’t have mattered except they kept bringing up tiny slices of their backstories and leaving the rest unanswered. i went so far as to look up one of the squad’s comic history, trying to understand what was happening, only to learn that his character’s movie plot wasn’t related to any comic version of him--so they recreated his backstory for the movie and saw no need to further fill it in! frustrating.

i found the whole backfiring idea of ‘how to counter a new threat’ by a secretive government agency believable enough though. but the tie in moments to batman, even though they were small, just annoyed me. like, an unreasonable amount. i think it’s because i don’t love the MCU, so i wish the DC movies didn’t need to try and also be an interconnected universe--birds of prey was beyond that! which is why it’s my fave! ben affleck wouldn’t have made an ounce of sense showing his face there, and that’s as it should be.

this may be the first movie i’ve ever come across that had a bad soundtrack that was bad because the songs were good. like, most of its songs were ones that i love, or at least nostalgically enjoy...but pretty much none of them fit the moments/scenes they were used in, and they weren’t ‘a jarring contrast to set a tone’ or anything either. they were just songs that felt wrong and it didn’t seem like the movie knew that.

i feel like the death rate was much lower than i expected given the plot and the world it’s set in--for the squad, i mean. the death rate for civilians was so high! poor gotham.

overall i’m glad i watched it but don’t need to again, and i like knowing who the villains are, since i got gifted the lego dc villains game and barely knew who any of them were before. i’m really excited for peacemaker and the suicide squad so this was worth watching to get me there.

#2022 motw #suicide squad #actuallylukedanes #david harbour #harley quinn #deadshot #will smith #margot robbie

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shamemp3 · 3 years ago

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☕️ + who is the best spider-person and why

THIS IS HARD…i have many favorites and i usually cant pick between them but if i have to narrow it down it would be btwn miles and peter (but probably miles). like obviously most of the spider people have same general core values of like altruism and responsibility towards others and the whole Guilt thing but with miles you see it explored SO well and he’s still very young too and we get to see how much he believes in being there for his neighborhood and his personal responsibility to everyone aroond him and on top of that we get to see how being a hero affects him mentally which we dont rly get with the other spideys and while that doesnt make them WORSE bc it just depends on the writer its just. hard not to love miles when you see how he thinks and cares about his friends and family and community … like something i liked abt saladin ahmed’s run was miles’ journalkeeping. also we get to see how frustrated and angry miles gets when he CANT help people (ex. the school shooting champs issue) and his talk with kamala where she’s like “we’re the same we cant stand aside” or smth like that is very close to my heart. idk i just love a lot when his conflicts are explored and we see him make mistakes and have internal conflict with himself and his feelings and its so very human !!! he is so empathetic and he will always attempt to peacemake before anything else and he always tries to be there in the littlest ways even if its not a hero crisis (with kenneth!!!) and he cares so much and his moral compass is unshakeable (not to say that of the other spider people isnt) but i dont know his spidey feels the most Homey and community like to me which is what spiderman is all about… and peter’s DEFINITELY does too like esp w fnsm 2019 and all the special issues where you see him step up for new york but it makes me upset how we RARELY get to see how he’s affected mentally by this one example i always bring up being superior spiderman … and tbh aside from fnsm 2019 we’ve BARELY had any good peter comics since straczynski and thats definitely more on the writers than peter himself bc he still is one of the most humane and community-based characters to me at least but … i think i’d give it to miles tho in terms of favorites they are still tied i think

send me a ☕️ on smth and ill give my opinion!

#I DIDNT MEAN FOR THIS TO GET SO LONG AND IT DOESNT EVEN MAKE SENSE. IM SORRY #anyways sorry to kaine anya ben miguel i love u all but …….#answered #anon

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mushroomxfrog · 3 years ago

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Why I'm disgusted by the Perry Jhonson movie-

Okay, so we all obviously agree. Without further ado, let's get into this:

Let's start with the characters. Okay, Percy's design . For some reason, the actor looks so... un-Percy! He just doesn't give me the 'Percy' vibe. Next, our girl Annabeth! i was so annoyed with her design. In the books, it's clearly given that Annabeth is BLONDE! Like seriously, come on! And Annabeth was just 'the badass love interest'... We didn't get to know anything about her, like she's afraid of spiders, and that her conflicts with her family, so we didn't have any sympathy for her. And Grover. I went mad on the spot and just didn't want to write this, because it actually broke my heart... Grover is supposed to be the cowardly, thin, and can't really defend himself from school bullies. But as the series goes on, he's a loyal friend, and a caring person..Ooops, I mean Saytr. But in the movies, he's just comical relief, and he's portrayed as a ladies' man. And they made him a butt-kicking badass too. In the books, he's far from that. He hardly ever says something funny { That's normally Percy's job } , And he only likes the hunters cuz they're relater to nature. And as i mentioned before, he's NOT a badass. I think, if given the right person to portray, Grover's actor in the movie would have excelled at Grover's personality. It's just fucking stupid. And Luke, he was a monstrosity. Luke seemed too evil, even at the start, he's supposed to be using trickery. Instead, you can already know just by watching the first bit that he's the villain. In the book, Percy and Annabeth hold hope that Luke is under the influence of Kronos or something. But in the movie, Annabeth and Percy immediately just start attacking Luke. Annabeth always holds out hope that Luke can be reformed, and Percy , he still tried to reform Luke in the sea of monsters { Book } but he gave up in the titan's curse. Annabeth still had hope, cos she still had a soft spot for him.

Anyways, let's get on with the plot.

Okay, first of all, where's Nancy Bobofit? Nancy is a red-head Kleptomaniac girl in the start of the books at Yancy academy. She always annoyed Percy and Grover. And not to mention that Yancy is a boarding school. And i just seemed like they were in a hurry at the start. When Percy's mother died, we didn't feel sorry for him because we didn't see how close they were. That's why the Montauk beach scene was included in the books.

Also, how did Percy defeat Annabeth in Capture the flag, when Annabeth has been training for years and Percy was only there for a day or so?

Next, The war and the promise on the River Styx was not a thing in the movie , so Zeus and the other gods knew from the first. And Ares was a second antagonist in the books, and gave Percy a bag with a indirect link , so The lightning bolt would appear once they got to the underworld, and Luke being on the side of Kronos was revealed later . In the movie, the bolt was concealed in a shield that Luke gave Percy .The plot was just over all basic and boring, and they only included the main things.

And Hades was actually a Villain in this, which was just straight up stupid. Seriously, the first movie didn't even include Kronos. My little sister watched the movies with me, and she didn't read the books, so she didn't understand at all. And Percy only consulted the oracle in the second movie.

And they made the characters 16, so that the prophesy would happen when they were 20. This annoyed me.

And the next thing that I'm going to address is the absolutely ridiculous thing that THE GODS COULD DIRECTLY HELP THEIR CHILDREN! Like come on. I liked that the gods couldn't do that, so we'd get only a vague message from them. It seemed more... Godly?

And The gods look horrible. They don't even look like Our leader described them. Where's Zeus's pinstriped Suit? All of the gods are in armor, and they don't look like themselves at all. Their personalities are different.

Hades: Any hope that it would be a faithful adaptation died when Hades revealed himself. I mean give the god a break. He's been portrayed as demonic and hellish in just about every script put to film. He's actually a caring father { iSh } to Nico when he appeared in the 'blood of olumpus'. And then somehow They switch to Kronos as the villan. It's lazy as hell.

Pesephone... this part of the film is set in the Summer time, this undermines a huge part of Persephone's mythology, which dictates that she stays with her mother in the Spring and Summer; only spending the harsher months with Hades, and she isn't supposed to be so, Yk, Badass. And her having a crush on Grover is just.. Well, stupid.

and CHB IS NOT ON A HILL! It's just fucking stupid .And the sets of the best school ever { Hogwarts is in second place }are horrible, WHERE ARE THE STRAWBERRIES? The setting of CHB is described in the books amazingly, but here, it's just weird. And Thalia's tree was not mentioned.

And a lot of things were not here, but were mentioned in the second movie. And , there are many more reasons the first movie was horrible. But then the director , had the god damn nerve to make a second movie. Rick Riordan has made it clear he is not proud of how the movies turned out, and as such the fandom took his word and through their own experiences of reading the books and watching the movies, they can tell that it was bad. Rick Riordan even offered to write them a new script, but the idiot of a director refused.

The acting was a bit dull, it seemed like they weren't exited. Let's compare this to Harry Potter. The actors had a great time on set, and their acting was amazing.

People have said, 'Wow, the Percy Jackson fandom think they're so superior just because they read the books and they get all angry because the movie isn't EXACTLY IDENTICAL as them' But it's not that. While watching it, I felt disgusted, disgraced, and almost betrayed. It felt like they took my fragile, innocent, childhood and treated it like it was some beat-up barbie doll! It did no justice and everything was just WRONG!

the movies are good, if you haven't read the books. If you have, just avoid the movies. If you haven't read the books and are not planning on reading them, go for it. It's not bad. But note that its nothing like the books. So when PJO fans are talking abt PJO, don't butt in. You know nothing. And they will rip you to shreds like a Kindly One

Thank you .

#percy jackson #percy jackson movies #percy jackson series

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staylavendertea · 3 years ago

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music, ya know

this is a complete impulse of lying in bed middle of the night thoughts that i don’t even know if anyone’s gonna see that have been stemmed off the experiences of the past couple days, topic of 1:41 am mind boggle:

music and it’s aesthetic and importance in literal every sense cause it’s just that important to me

first experience of realizing this, i’ve always loved film scores and listening to music and the orchestral pieces from movies and shows, but it really seemed to hit me recently, like the fact that this week’s new LOKI episode, no spoilers, has the most badass score and a badass scene with such a perfect mix and musical atmosphere. i literally had one of my best friends over, who has a very small interest in comics, cinema, marvel in general, especially a show about a norse comic god that they know nothing about, and whilst they sat there for my own regard, watching the show like a normal human being would, i sat there clinching their hand, watching in awe as our music is louder than actors talking tv speakers spurted out the most spine tightening world building story and just wandered “jesus that was good” and whilst i will always think about the superior acting, cgi, the amount of different people that just went into those few scenes and like what was physical set and what was computer image and what the hell did i just watch that has my brain running olympic marathon circles right now?

the thought that said brain kept going back to was that fucking score. it was literally tearing apart of every corner of my head and why was it doing that?

second experience, another marvel one, but i digress. black widow (no spoilers i promise), thursday night, movie theater for the first time in i can’t even remember how long now and we set through so many previews just for fucking boss baby to start playing and the reaction of the theater to make me burst out laughing.

however whatever works in that little projection box, gets fixed and the movie is pushed to just a little before it starts, a nice small pepsi ad, the regal rollercoaster intro (if you go to regal movie theaters ya know what i’m talking about), and then i hear it - the marvel studios logo - something so musically engraved into my head that my ass that can’t sing for anything, can harmonize with the sound and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up around movie theater surround sound. but i can’t think of that now, i’m here to watch black widow, a movie on hiatus with the rest of the world for so long now, a character i didn’t know much about it or truly, didn’t have the most connection with in the first place. yet through that one movie, i seemed to build one of those.

ofc though scarlett johansson’s beautiful acting and world building, but it isn’t until the end of the movie that i even realize why. it was the fucking score again. when i think about it, the beginning of the movie felt like all of black widows scenes in the avengers movies for me, kinda just, there. not really emotionally tugging, not bad ofc either, but just, there. in the present, watching something cool in motion. but then it hits, what i can only describe as a theme that somehow tells the entire black widow movie in one singular composition. something so badass, story telling, but also just singularly black widow-esk. i can tell you that i walked out the movie theater rambling about the composition and looking up composers.

third experience, the most recent as it was literally like 20 minutes ago and sprung one train rail of a thought process that immediately tugged me into typing this brain vomit into a tumblr post. i have playlists. for everything. and when i say everything, i fucking mean everything. i’m a writer and a reader, i have playlists mostly for the young avengers, my most utter comfort characters, and their stories i’m writing. i also have playlists/genre/specific song for about every book i read.

when i read red white and royal blue when that came out, i noticed i listened to one of the drunks by panic at the disco the entirety of the ending of the book and the words and music fit together like puzzle pieces, not only did it make the reading experience better, but i was so fucking emerged in my over hyper-imagitive brain that when i finally actually finished the book, i still never left. rewind present day to the beginning of this past june, one last stop comes out, ofc i get it the day it comes out with my anticipation building like wildfire. i start reading that night and i put on my recents on my liked songs playlist (true to true spotify user) and i slowly over the next day as i read and finish the book, windle down to the genre, then the band, to the album, to the exact song that feels like the carbon copy of the words i’m reading. that song was only ones who know by the arctic monkeys. now go back to this past week, anyone who reads the carry on series knows, anyway the wind blows came out this past tuesday. i waited till wednesday to buy the ✨pretty special addition barnes and nobles copy✨ so that the dear friend that indulged me by watching loki that same day could buy it at the same time and make a cute book date or whateva. i started reading that night and something just felt ,,, off. i didn’t know what it was, but i was living off the pure joy that simon and co give me so i ignored the feeling. until i realized why it felt off this morning. i wasn’t listening to any fucking music, literally nothing, not even queen. motherfucking. queen.

i looked for the snowbaz playlist i made when i read carry on for the first time back in 2016/2017 when i was still a freshman in high school just to remember i deleted that literally forever ago. so i made a new one. like an hour and a half ago. very inspired on how i made the playlists for the young avengers and all their stories. letting the music talk.

the fact that all these rambling thoughts have led to this conclusion makes my head hurt, but for me at least in my own experiences. music talks. a two way conversation. a radio broadcast, turning the peg until you match the same frequency thats being put out and you can hear it and understand it. it’s like when you see comedians on stages or actors on panels, they talk, you have reactions, you talk back, and so forth the loop continues until the last voice, last note, rings out. music and songs and orchestral pieces and bands and composers and lyric writers are telling you the stories in reverse. they don’t know their doing it, obviously they meant something entirely different in their creations, but it’s like literature and any work of words and storytelling. interpretation. to me, the notes, pianos, violins, guitars, drums, singers, cellos, and anything that can make sound you can think of, is telling you something. whispering in your ear as you watch or read. facial features, emotions the characters dont say out loud, outfits, they way their standing or talking or moving or interacting with anything and everything.

when i just made that carry on playlist, i played it, decided to try read some good almost 2 am fan fic as you do, my hanging on by a thread sleep brain telling me words aren’t recognizable right now, and tighten myself into a blanket to see if i can sleep at all. the playlist still plays and my never shuts up head thinks it’s own daydreams, stresses out about anything it can, that is until the song plays. the one that just speaks the carry on trilogy language. the one that i found whilst i was reading wayward son and then would play whenever i re read carry on. the one that started this whole way too long ass post in the first place. cant be alone tonight by atlas. i heard just the first sound and i saw them, as if i were in the same room, like i never even put the book down in the first damn place because i’m actually terrified of finishing it. i could see simon in his oversized hoodies, baz in an outfit that was way too good just to be sitting inside, agatha looking as pleasantly pretty as ever, penelope poking fun at shepherd, and shepherd poking fun right back; bickering, laughing, saying the dialogues i try to remember so i can write them later, existing.

in a way music doesn’t just talk, but it lives. it lives and breaths. a three way conversation you could say. characters, stories, plot, and settings talk to the music, then the music delivers us listeners the message, so that we can send one back. this literally took me over an hour to write and i should point the important note that i do have synesthesia where colors and sounds and colors and words do the association so this entire thing might be me being entirely biased, but alas, i love sound so much and if there is anyone else that feels the same ways as i do as just a simple good film score and song makes anything ten times better, feel free to talk, i will totally be awkward, but i need some music freaks like myself around so feel free to hit me up, also if you love movies and cinema also feel free to hit me up as i need movie buddies and now it’s 3 am and i will be going to bed - peace out 🛸

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