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Wednesday continues to kill my wallet

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Marvel Old Comic Retelling Read Order

So I have a friend who's a big Marvel fan and wants to get into comics, he's willing to start from the late 70s and doesn't want to touch any Golden or Silver age material but does want to get the general idea of what happened at that point in the universe, so I've constructed this list for him, made out of retellings of older stories with modern art and writers to make it better for his style of reading.

**Pre-Golden Age Retellings:**

Thor: Ages of Thunder

The Mighty Thor: Loki

Thor: For Asgard

Thor: Son Of Asgard

The Rise of Apocalypse

Thor: Godstorm

Ghost Rider: Trail of Tears

Apache Skies

Rawhide Kid: Slap Leather

The Rawhide Kid: The Sensational Seven

Blaze Of Glory: The Last Ride of the Western Heroes

Stoker’s Dracula

X-Men: Apocalypse / Dracula

Wolverine: Origin

Wolverine: Origin II

**The Golden Age Retellings:**

X-Men: Magneto Testament

Captain America & Bucky: The Life Story of Bucky Barnes

Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze

Truth: Red, White & Black

Captain America: Patriot

The Marvels Project

Marvels #1

Captain America: White

Captain America / Black Panther: Flags of our Fathers

Captain America: America First

X-Men: Krakoa Lives

Sub-Mariner: The Depths

Winter Soldier: The Bitter March

**Silver Age Retellings:**

Fantastic Four: Books of Doom

Daredevil: The Man Without Fear

Daredevil: Battlin’ Jack Murdock

Wolverine: Weapon X

X-Men: Angel – Revelations

X-Men: Origins

X-Men: Origins II

Ororo – Before The Storm

Mythos: Fantastic Four

Fantastic Four: First Family

Avengers Origins: Ant-Man & the Wasp

Mythos: Hulk

Hulk: Gray

Storm

Avengers Origins: Thor

Thor: First Thunder

Iron Man Season One

Iron Man: Enter the Mandarin

Iron Man: The Iron Age

Mythos Spider-Man

Spider-Man: With Great Power

Spider-Man/Doctor Octopus: Year One

Untold Tales of Spider-Man

X-Men: Season One

Mythos: X-Men

Avengers: The Origin

Captain America: Man Out of Time

Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes

Hulk: Smash Avengers

Avengers Four

Thor: Blood Oath

Rise of the Black Panther

Black Panther: Killmonger – By Any Means

Daredevil: Yellow

Spider-Man: Blue

Emma Frost

Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes II

X-Men: The Hidden Years

Punisher: Born

Avengers Origins: Luke Cage

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Holy shit, good thing I dropped it after failsafe then.

Batman #144 - "The Joker: Year One III" (2024)

written by Chip Zdarsky art by Giuseppe Camuncoli, Andrea Sorrentino, Stefano Nesi, Alejandro Sanchez, & Dave Stewart

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Ultimate(Alpha) DC

Oh boi this is gonna be a long series of posts.

With all the rumors of a new Ultimate DC universe coming by Scott Snyder and Mark Waid, I've decided to add my own shitty take on one to the endless pile I've seen. Probably gonna be Called Alpha DC based on that Alpha Earth tease.

So when making an Ultimate-Verse you gotta follow the rules based on the TV tropes one, but I've removed to lessened the ones that only the actual writer writing the works would care about:

1) You have to have an overall Meta Origin, this is something that for all the original Ultimate Universe got wrong, it got this perfectly right. If you're going to make a new universe to help readers jump on, you need to cut off the Kitchen Sink of superhero universes. Examples of a Meta Origin are how in the OG UU, every hero was tied back to Captain America's Super Serum tied to literally every origin from the Hulk to Spider-Man to even Iron Man, all being attempts to recreate the serum on a massive scale so everyone who isn't an alien, a god, or somehow involved with the Baxter Building teleportation experiment has their powers derived from the Super-Soldier project or one of its offshoots. And the reason I didn't mention mutants was cause in the mini-series Ultimate Origins elaborates on the Meta Origin and how it connects everything else; the mutants, too, owe their origin to the project, or on how Earth X everything is a direct-or-indirect result of Celestial manipulation, on The New Universe had the "White Event", a sudden flash of energy over the entire surface of the Earth that gave one out of every 500,000 people powers. You get the idea, it makes everything more cohesive if making the universe feel smaller. In general you gotta make the universe as cohesive as possible

2) Important characters may be Killed Off for Real, basically, Time Travelling should be limited same with just general resurrection should here.

3) Backstories are altered to have more depth or outline their progression to become closer to their original character, to make it feel like a fresh take rather than a simple copy. For example Ultimate Captain America is my favorite example of this, for those who actually followed his development, he started out as this jingoistic, angry maybe racist but still heroic guy from the 1940s calling himself Captain America but by the time the universe ended, his encounters with other attempts at him like Nuke(Cybernetic Captain America of Vietnam) and Spider-Mans death he had pretty much grown to his 616 self if a little grumpy.

4) Creating an Adaptation Personality Change with Adaptation Heroism or Adaptation Villainy, to shift perceptions of who the character is supposed to be. Basically you can have certain characters act differently than usual or switch sides and stuff like that.

5) Adding new or reusing old ones in completely new ways characters (heroes, villains, supporters, etc.)

6) A generally weaker universe, power wise, that means no moving planets or cracking the earth, no running at the speed of light and all that. Characters may be more powerful or weaker than the original version, relative to how their abilities would fare in different circumstances, so Captain Atom has a chance to be the strongest instead for example.

7) Last and not the least is the general drive for individual coherency, taking advantage of the Shared Universe and planning the Crisis Crossover ahead of time. Whereas the original work may have run against a Continuity Snarl, the Ultimate Universe has the benefit of hindsight. Writers can cherry-pick the best ideas from the preceding work and streamline familiar story beats.

So now for the actual way I imagine it working.

So one thing Ultimate Marvel got right was the way it was kept small, so I'm gonna limit it to 7 to 10 books(compare this to canon DC where this is the amount of Batman books alone), probably corresponding with the Big 7 and some others and their side of the universe not sure yet.

I don't want this post to be bigger than it already is so I'll actually split up, Post By Post starting with Alpha Batman.

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Instead of the dumb Firebender headcanons I seem to see literally everywhere that seems to reduce Izuku's parents Quirks as just Fire and Telekinesis and wanting to give him a powerful ability. How about a powerful Quirk that Izuku could have gotten while still staying mostly with the Attraction x Fire Breathing?

So I wasn't sure what you wanted out of this, especially since I already made a Quirk Marriage involving the two, so I'm mostly just going to be spit balling other ideas for him.

Trying to come up with an original Quirk for Izuku is a twofold problem. We don't know much about either parent Quirk and there isn't a lot of overlap between the two's abilities. To really come up with anything interesting, you'd need to go as broad or abstract as possible to fit both ideas, which you will often have to do to combine Quirks, or try to give him a notable next generation boost. Then there is the issue of trying to make it fit with his character, which is pretty much a lost cause. That aside, I can still try to spit ball some ideas. Now, are these realistic results of these match ups? Not really, but the whole point is that these are as extreme combinations and variations as we can get.

Now, from Inko's side, the most obvious answer would simply be giving Izuku "Larceny". That's pretty much a direct upgrade of Inko's power as it is and I think could have a lot of fun applications if given a user like Izuku, but isn't the most interesting possibility. I suppose his ability could expand on specific characteristics, such as letting him call objects from further away, similar to what Thor can do with his hammer, or making the pull more powerful and aggressive, violently pulling at whatever he's using it on. The most out there I think you could do is Izuku being able to make a pull from any point on his body, kind of like a reverse of "Slide and Glide". It could even be a fun take on Spider Man's most prevalent ability of adhesion.

As for Hisashi, as we know so little about his power, you could pretty much justify or make up whatever you want. Maybe it could grow to let Izuku make huge swathes of flame or make various shaped flame attacks. Maybe it could even become a powerful beam of fire, similar to Godzilla's various breath attacks. An admittedly goofy, but fun idea could expand the idea of "breathing" and apply it to the skin, making to so Izuku can make fire from any point on his skin, kind of like a knock off of Endeavor. I think the most interesting would be a play on the idea of using breath to make heat, similar to people that meditate to stay warm. That by breathing, Izuku starts to make heat from his body for a variety of applications, similar to people that meditate to stay worm.

Finally, you could combine the two in a few ways. To be fair, I don't think making him a fire manipulator is that bad of an idea, since it's all about telekinetically controlling fire, but I still think there are other choices. The most obvious one to me would be Izuku being able to pull fire into his mouth and firing it back out later, similar to Natsu from Fairy Tail, or make a powerful pulling affect from his mouth like Kirby. An out there idea could be that by pulling on something, he could cause it to heat up and ignite with some kind of friction ability, like trying to pull on part of a door to make it catch on fire. I think that most out there you could get is Izuku attracting heat to his hands, effectively making it an ice power as he drains the heat from his surroundings. Maybe he could fire it back out as fire, but that would be pushing it pretty far.

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Tony Stark dies today (17/10/23), according to the MCU timeline.

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Tony Stark dies today (17/10/23), according to the MCU timeline.

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okay so we know both Lauras and Daken (fang) and Logan survived the hellfire gala but my only question is did gabby Kinney (Scout) survive the hellfire gala

With the Hellfire Gala we straight up didn't get to see what happened to everyone, X-Men is a big franchise on its own so I understand why we haven't basically seen the status of every mutant yet(Though they could probably just release like a handbook for it like the 198 back during decimation).

Gabby hasn't been in any comic since July as far as I know. Since New Mutants: Lethal Legion #5. So we don't really know what happened to her. Hope she survived tho

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What are your top 5 superhero costumes?

Man I've been waiting to get someone to ask me this!(or anything actual)

10) Flash(Wally West) Rebirth Suit

Picked this image specifically so people can get why I like it. Both those costumes in his hands are great but c'mon, the rebirth suits is basically both of the best parts in one design, plus Wally keeps the open hair thing that makes him unique to Barry and it's made of Pure Speed Force Energy, however that works but it sounds awesome.

9) Nightwing

There has never been a better costume put on by a former sidekick I swear to God.

8) Daredevil

Ironic the blind guy can pick out such a banger outfit.

7) X-23

I'm a really big fan of her honestly even more than Logan. Same thing costume wise

6)Just the fucking Green Lantern Corps in general

5) Superman

Rebirth Suit

Anybody that doesn't have THE superhero in your top 5 superhero anything list makes your list invalid to me unfortunately, but seriously it's Superman. For him I have a particular favorite I like though, the Rebirth Suit. Best one he's had imo, While I prefer Trunks on my Superman costumes, the belt is good enough as a modern replacement. Instead of just getting rid of anything on his pelvis like some versions do, makes it too plain for my liking.

4) Wonder Woman' Rebirth Design

Actually just perfect.

3) Iron Man

I think In general from the comics to movies to animated series, Iron Man looks great. I don't think any other Power Armor or tech based hero looks as good as him. But 3 stand out to me, Extremis, Prime and my top of the bunch:

Endo-Sym Armor/Model 51/Superior Iron Man Suit

I love how different it is from Tony's other suits, every reflects the turn his personality has taken from Axis. Hell even the exposed face shows how arrogant he is now to quote him roughly 'How could I hide a face like this from the world?'

Sleek, Fast, Advanced. Awesome

2) Batman's The Rebirth Suit

I mean it's pretty much everything from all the suits I've ever liked in one, like damn the inner of the cape is purple probably a reference to the purple gloves, then you have the yellow outlike on the logo which is obviously a reference to the yellow logo of the past. Just perfection 10/10. Honestly the Rebirth redesigns for the trinity were amazing

1) Spider-Man

Both my favorite costume and hero. There are so many costumes to pick from so it took some time here.

The 616 suit

It hasn't been changed much at all from Ditko for a eason.

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Favorite Video Game?

I have 3000+ hours in this game, I've been playing it since when I was just entering middle school at 9 years old back in 2015 and I still find things I didn't know about before, types of builds I haven't tried and storylines I haven't finished since I'm too busy replaying the ones I liked before.

Yeah unlike previous games by Bethesda they don't have as much depth, ocean wide pool deep basically but I still fucking love this game, I'll get beaten down by school and just come back and explore and don't get me started on the mods. It doesn't take much to impress me as long as it's fun

Other games that could rival this are Stardew Valley, Fallout 3, NW and 4, The Witcher 3, Superhot, The Sims 3, Minecraft and some others. I play a lot of games but this immediately came to my mind as my favorite most likely.

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Why do people use OOC/Irrelevant stories to justify their hatred for characters?

I'll admit I got this question from reddit but seeing as you are a big fan of Iron Man and certain characters afflicted by this issue I thought I would ask

Comic book characters and the consistency of favored portrayals

Why do people do the exact opposite to justify how cool they think a character is?

Look this is probably the worst kind of question to ask me, back when I was in high school my classmates hated me cause when it came to arguments I would always 'Stand on the fence' or 'Never pick a side' and I agree, even when I disagree or agree I can't help but see the other side of things with some questions.

I think one of the biggest things comic fans need to accept with our medium is that, the only real continuity that exists is the one we try and brute force and make in our heads, some writers themselves don't really care, Geoff Jones ignored Batman previously basically begging for Hal Jordan to come back to life when he was The Spectre to writing Batman basically complaining that Hal was back because to him that is what he thinks Batman should act like with Hal, and considering he probably grew up with a comic like Dark Knight Returns the asshole authoritarian was probably was he knew of the character, who knows I don't know his personal life.

I think we can all say that you have fallen in love with a character based of Non Canon stories, Hell my favorite comic for Superman and the one that got me into liking the character was All-Star Superman. The exact opposite of that like what you asked tho, Hating a character because a story depicted them poorly whether it's canon or not is valid as well, I mean it's pretty damn short-sighted if they have been exposed to better represented sides of those characters, but it doesn’t change the impact they initially felt, wether they can get past that is on the person. Like for example, I fucking hated Superman growing up cause the first movies I remember seeing him in was the freaking Dark Knight Returns duology and certain parts of Young Justice Season 1 but overtime seeing better versions and representations of the characters and also hearing put fans on what he represents has pushed him up to my 5th favorite hero, I do understand not everyone can do this. People just want to support their view of the character.

I also do think people who hate certain characters do reach a lot of the time, sharing panels of stories older than their parents sometimes probably not even knowing what comic it even came from, just happy they have this image of the character they don't like being abusive or something. It's even worse then the he outright go out of their way to find these panels or stories to use for hate on purpose even after knowing it's generally agreed upon it's a shitty representation of the character. Seriously nobody should bring up All Star Batman and Robin as some 'Got Ya!' moment in an argument, just no. Sometimes some people have just predetermined in their mind they want to hate a character and will go out of their way to farm for anything that can paint them in the worst light possible.

With Iron Man it's people bringing up Civil War again and again and again continuously like the 40 years of stories before that don't show why Tony would never do any of that in his right mind. With Superman it's people bringing up injustice in literally any relation to him or people bringing up a scene of Jason Todd blaming Bruce for his death as evidence of how whiny he is even when one of the highlight lines of his first appearance as Red Hood is 'Bruce I forgive you for not saving me but-'

With characters like say, Hal Jordan, Magneto or Venom and meny more, it gets more interesting here. Here what the characters did that was bad IS/WAS(considering reboots in Hal's case) in continuity but a version of the characters that were received much more popularly then makes fans disregard these past appearances as wrong, say they have had this entirely new portrayal longer than they had that one or writers themselves will retcon them away by making them, in the case of former villians now refromed, seem less evil than they were. No no those people Magneto killed weren't innocent humans in the silver age, they were actually anti-mutant bigots that killed a little girl for being a mutant. One of my favorite examples of this is Hulk. Yes Hulk the rampaging monster from movies to series to comics, in comics in I think 2008 was retconned to have never and I mean never killed a single person in all his rampages In the in-universe 12 years at that point, not even indirectly because Bruce Banner was subconsciously calculating all the angles of where he would throw or smash stuff apprently. All those crumbled buildings, nope, nothing.

And you know what? I can agree with some of that (that Hulk retcon is still dumb) because let me tell you the real truth to all this.

Consistency

People love consistency, They don't care about Magneto killing innocents in the 60s or Venom eating people in the 90s, they care about the take that has been supported consistently in their view for longer or just showed more consistently in what they have seen. Even for the haters it's the same, if for example my only experience with Batman was All Star and Certain Post New 52 issues, I would be happy knowing I hate this borderline sociopathic dude that's what I know Batman as.

You see it even with the movies, When The Amazing Spider-Man came out you had people saying it was an inaccurate take or not liking the changes even though it was actually more comic accurate that what came before but fans of the Raimi movies have consistently seen Peter as a meek and nice kid before being Spider-Man not an asshole, they have consistently seen him with organic webbing not with web shooters. Anything that breaks the portrayal they have known the most if gonna make them react either well or badly. People who only knew Tony Stark from Civil War probably reacted well to his MCU version seeing as he broke the consistent borderline villian they knew him from the comics.

So the big issue is people trying to force their own consistent idea of a character on others when comics just aren't consistent, everyone like I said at the start has their own makeshift continuity in their head they made up with books they liked or think fit, the consistent portrayal they know about, so this is why you get people arguing about if Batman is the real identity or Bruce Wayne or if Clark Kent should wear trunks or not I could go on and on like if Wonder Woman should use a sword? Someone who is used to the New 52 version would say yes and someone used to the Post Crisis version would say no. Or maybe it's what love interest Spidey should end up with, people who say Gwen probably grew up with TASM and Spectacular Spider-Man. Better for people to just respectly discuss the takes of characters different people have instead of childishly pushing the version they have in their head as the correct version and putting down everyone else's pretty damn subjective takes. That's with superhero comics of course, the nature of what is canon and isn't and how fans of this stuff talk about it with different 'takes' is way more unique than talking about disliking MCU Spider-Man or talking about why you hate Sasuke or something.

I don't really have a good way to end all this cause that's just it, all about consistency if I didn't get that across the 10 times I used that word. As usual feel free to disagree with me and if possible tell me how and why.

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At this point I *want* the new Spider-Man to be Harry Osborn, I actually suggested it on a thread on reddit. It's completely unexplored and hasn't really been done from what I can see. Especially if you keep Norman as Green Goblin, hell if you take stuff like the orginal 'What if... Flash Thompson was Spider-Man', you have a chance of making Peter Parker 6160 Doc Ock but good.

Comics this week?

Action Comics #1057 - If this is the last arc for both the way I suspect I'm going to miss Sandoval just as much as PKJ. Like Sampere and Federeci he's an artist who could be a generational Superman creator but may be getting snatched away too soon. This issue is mainly just an interview between Clark and Norah, and in the hands of a lesser artist it would just be boring talking heads. Sandoval's portrayal of Clark using his powers to detect whether Norah is lying during the interview keeps the tension high, loved how he depicted Clark's x-ray vision and superhearing. Pretty obvious that Norah is an infiltrator sent by the Empire of Shadows (the evil Dark Multiverse Batfamily from the Batman/Superman & the Authority one shot that PKJ did). If this is the ending arc for PKJ, the Superfamily vs. the Evil Batfamily is a great idea for an ending.

Flash #1 - Good first issue, sets up an interesting Speed Force plot even though I've felt worn out on the Speed Force. Been out of the loop with Flash for a while and this did a good job of getting me up to speed (heh). Dedato art isn't a great fit with a speedster - conveying motion is something he's bad at - but it does suit the grim tone. Spurrier is a writer who loves to pack his issues with as much words as he can, which has the upside of making the issue take longer to read. Seems the comic industry is switching back to compression after two decades plus with everyone trying to ape the Bendis decompressed style. It's a welcome change because if you're going to charge me $5 an issue, it damn well better take me longer than 5 minutes to read.

Detective Comics #1074 - Probably my favorite issue of the run thus far, Nguyen is a treasure. Watters needs his own Ten-Eyed Man mini.

The Penguin #2 - The lesser King work with WW on the stands but still good!

Unstoppable Doom Patrol #6 - Burnham draws the hell out of the fight scenes and it was great to see old Morrison characters like Quiz. Kinda the perfect counter to Jane having every superpower ever just doled out to different identities.

Blade #3 - Slows down a bit but the Adana is such a cool bad guy and I'm loving the buildup to Blade's fight. Plus Blade keeps being the coolest motherfucker in the MU.

Immortal Thor #2 - Not feeling the new Loki design and Ewing is struggling with writing fight scenes as always, but man is that art gorgeous otherwise. Thought bubbles are such a perfect choice here because they are the equivalent of Shakespearean English for comics in terms of conveying "this is old school storytelling". Compliments Ewing trying to write a Thor run in the vein of the actual myths.

Avengers #5 - At this point it's a solid run, but not as great as his Strange book. Need to cut back so I'm dropping this.

Ultimate Invasion #4 - Oh boy do I have thoughts! So many I need to bullet point them!

Hickman has flipped the plot from Ultimates 2. Here the 6160 Ultimates are positioned like the 1610 Liberators in that they are going to be fighting to destroy the status quo, with Capitan America presumably leading the charge. Or maybe it will be Black Panther as the leader since he presumably will be housing the Ultimates in the one place not under the Illuminati's control: Wakanda.

Nothing gets erased via time travel which surprised me. For better or worse, this is what the new Ultimate Universe will be. No traditional take on Ultimate Fantastic Four ever since Ben, Sue, and Johnny are all dead and Reed is a good version of Doom. Reed will be on the Ultimates because Hickman can't leave his boy on the sidelines for long. Clearly Hickman will be writing Ultimates since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to write that kind of lineup with this weird a status quo. What the hell an Ultimate X-Men book is going to look like is anyone's guess.

Hickman has three big plotlines seeded here: The Illuminati carving up America and the Ultimates fighting back. The Maker, Kang, and Howard all trapped in the City which is sealed now but will open again one day. Tony Stark is "Iron Lad" which is meant to make us believe he is also Ultimate Kang, whether that's a red herring or a destiny Tony must face one day remains to be seen.

Other big plot thread is that one day the 616 Illuminati are going to make their way to 6160, likely with the help of Miles and that card Maker gave him.

No tease for Spider-Man, maybe that will come with the Ultimate Universe one shot. Either it's going to be Peter Parker because Marvel demands at least one relatively "normal" book to serve as anchor for all this weirdness, or it will be someone entirely new. Saw someone suggest Harry Osborn and fuck that actually could work! I don't think that's ever been done either. My guess is that USM will be a book about either Peter or Harry having been groomed to join the technocrats in ruling the world, but they end up rebelling against that. Most of Spidey's traditional foes are either mad scientists (Norman and Otto would easily fit into this as sub-bosses under Howard who are pissed because the Illuminati stripped them of their old privileges) or science experiments lashing out (Lizard for example).

I see what Hickman is going for here. In our world the techbros wield power equivalent to heads of state, Hickman just flat out made them the actual heads.

It's an interesting setup, but it's weird. I dunno if Marvel fans will get on board with this, it's so utterly at odds with well, everything. It's not 616, it's not the MCU, and it's not 1610. Everything here is taking full advantage of being an alternate universe, and I don't know how Marvel fans will react to that. Another problem is this Ultimate Universe already carries a lot of baggage. Don't know who the Maker is? You're going to be utterly lost with what the hell is going on. Original Ultimate Universe lasted as long as it did because it was easy to get into for newcomers and featured streamlined reimagining of the classic characters for oldheads. Hickman said his new UU would be an inversion of that and he didn't lie.

I'm concerned that approach is going to make this new Ultimate Universe short lived. Say you're one of the countless people who will presumably jump in on Hickman writing Spidey without having read all this beforehand. If Spider-Man is as changed as Iron Man or Reed are, that's going to be a turn off for people because they'll reject how different he is from what they expect.

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Not sure how this argument was meh. Even in Marvel and DC. Point to a quirkless hero that isn't a billionaire. Even In the 30s,60s. Writers understood you can't bullshit getting the resources and training needed to keep up with even low superhumans without the money to pay for it. The OP acts like say, episode 1 Izuku would be able to easily aquire All Might's armor or something. All Might has a bunch of cash to spend, he was the number 1 hero for longer than 30 years for god sake.

I guess yes a quirkless hero can exist, but it would be so much a waste of cash and resources it's not even a need. MHA just isn't the verse for it.

Your argument against the whole quirkless hero thing especially with the all might fight feels kinda…meh? I guess it’s just the whole quirkless hero argument hasn’t been a focal point since the very start of the series when he was in middle school while he was being bullied, as-well as his talk with all might which seemed more out of concern than anything else. Also you can’t really use all for one as an example when comparing the suit since he’s also like a pretty big outlier. I didn’t mean to offend you about this since it’s your opinion, it just honestly feels like a quirkless hero is possible with what’s shown but that society really wouldn’t want one in the first place.

Oh don't worry, I am not offended. Not only do I encourage people to send in feed back like this, you did so in a way that was both respectful and succinctly explained your point. If anything, I commend it. And since I didn't go into much detail with it with the other post, I can talk about it again here.

While the issue of Quirkless heroics hasn't been a major focal point of the series, it is still an important part of the story, especially for Izuku and All Might, and a major point of fan discussion. And no matter how many times I hear arguments about it, I still cannot buy the concept. Ignoring the fact that the occupation of a hero is defined by having a Quirk, the series makes it clear that it is not safe or practical for people without Quirks to try and be heroes. Other methods to become a hero would be costly in time and resources and ultimately wouldn't be as much use as someone with a Quirk. Quirks offer such a unique advantage in their own way that it cannot be replicated by any regular person. What's more is that they are easier to train and use as an extension of your own body. With that training comes radical growth in power. There's only so much equipment that can be built up and the human body can be trained before reaching a cap on either of them. And whatever equipment and training Quirkless people have, it's going to be more useful on someone with a Quirk because they can use it with their Quirk instead of relying on it entirely.

And since I talked about the physical side of things, let's talk about a support equipment based hero. All Might said himself that heroes shouldn't rely on support equipment. Everything surrounding All Might right now has so many caveats around it, but I want to focus on the equipment itself. Like I mentioned before, this is the most advanced, expensive pieces of support equipment we have ever seen going up against All For One. This is a battle of extremes, but I believe it goes to show the inherent issues of relying on support equipment, just as All Might warned Izuku about it. First you need to have some develop and pay for all of this equipment. Then you have to train with the equipment to make sure it functions. Then there is the matter of upkeep, upgrading, and replacing the equipment if it's destroyed. And if it is destroyed or damaged, you basically can't be a hero until you get it back. Someone with a Quirk is going to be just as effective, but far more efficient and cost effective in both time and resources. Not everyone is going to be fighting All For One, but not every wanna-be hero is going to have all the experience and resources of All Might, the most successful hero in the entire country, if not the world.

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I don't see why the OP thinks arguments like this look meh tbh, but I would like guys that like to support this idea or think All Might having an Iron Man suit means you can be a consistent hero in MHA.

Point to a hero from popular franchises from DC or Marvel who aren't billionaires or have support of one, no seriously try. Batman, Iron Man, Green Arrow, all of those threes sidekicks or panthers, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), and then even guys like Hawkeye need the money from organizations like Shield to supply his trick arrows otherwise he's a liability, damn in early avengers issues they would bench him from big fights for that very reason so he had to take Hank Pyms old costume. Even The Question, the only guy I can think about who doesn't have powers, just stays as a detective and got murked by Lex Luthor with minor super strength and would have died without Batmans money saving him.

Writers In the 30s to 80s of superhero comics understood that you can't bullshit the skills or equipment you would need to be a quirkless hero without having the money to justify it so they can even keep up with low level superhumans. Even Batman would need his cash to go all around the world getting training like he did, and at the end of the day, all he's doing is fighting thugs with no powers and almost no skill, when he wants to fight actual superhumans (you know like 80 percent of MHAs population or at least 20 percent if you want to count only the really combat ready stuff), the writers give him tech that scales up to them untill he straight up has power armor that can harm SUPERMAN, and god knows how expensive that is. Heck when batman beat Superman orginally in the dark knight returns, he told him his plans 'Took years and cost a fortune'. Even that weird argument that MHA humans are different doesn't work since DC and Marvel Humans are different as well(they can jump 15 feet in the air for god sake), so there really isn't any difference.

All Might was the number one hero for over 30 years, he has a high tech car and is obviously insanely rich from all that work he did, he has the cash to pay for this equipment(not to mention his best friend and daughter are geniuses), this is the most expensive looking and most powerful equipment we have ever seen in MHA, even then it is breaking apart as the chapters come out, I doubt if All Might wanted to do this again, it wouldn't be easy.

If in universes like Marvel and DC, it's hard for you to do this kind of thing without literally being the the richest men in the world or having the backing of one, or an organization who has funding of said richest men or the government. I don't see it being any better in MHA.

Not sure I got my point across since I've read fanfiction with quirkless Izuku beating guys like Bakugou or Todoroki with training and a knife(seriously what does training do against an Explosion) so I'm not even sure if the fandom thinks up the logic or just really wants to see it happen regardless of if it makes sense.

Your argument against the whole quirkless hero thing especially with the all might fight feels kinda…meh? I guess it’s just the whole quirkless hero argument hasn’t been a focal point since the very start of the series when he was in middle school while he was being bullied, as-well as his talk with all might which seemed more out of concern than anything else. Also you can’t really use all for one as an example when comparing the suit since he’s also like a pretty big outlier. I didn’t mean to offend you about this since it’s your opinion, it just honestly feels like a quirkless hero is possible with what’s shown but that society really wouldn’t want one in the first place.

Oh don't worry, I am not offended. Not only do I encourage people to send in feed back like this, you did so in a way that was both respectful and succinctly explained your point. If anything, I commend it. And since I didn't go into much detail with it with the other post, I can talk about it again here.

While the issue of Quirkless heroics hasn't been a major focal point of the series, it is still an important part of the story, especially for Izuku and All Might, and a major point of fan discussion. And no matter how many times I hear arguments about it, I still cannot buy the concept. Ignoring the fact that the occupation of a hero is defined by having a Quirk, the series makes it clear that it is not safe or practical for people without Quirks to try and be heroes. Other methods to become a hero would be costly in time and resources and ultimately wouldn't be as much use as someone with a Quirk. Quirks offer such a unique advantage in their own way that it cannot be replicated by any regular person. What's more is that they are easier to train and use as an extension of your own body. With that training comes radical growth in power. There's only so much equipment that can be built up and the human body can be trained before reaching a cap on either of them. And whatever equipment and training Quirkless people have, it's going to be more useful on someone with a Quirk because they can use it with their Quirk instead of relying on it entirely.

And since I talked about the physical side of things, let's talk about a support equipment based hero. All Might said himself that heroes shouldn't rely on support equipment. Everything surrounding All Might right now has so many caveats around it, but I want to focus on the equipment itself. Like I mentioned before, this is the most advanced, expensive pieces of support equipment we have ever seen going up against All For One. This is a battle of extremes, but I believe it goes to show the inherent issues of relying on support equipment, just as All Might warned Izuku about it. First you need to have some develop and pay for all of this equipment. Then you have to train with the equipment to make sure it functions. Then there is the matter of upkeep, upgrading, and replacing the equipment if it's destroyed. And if it is destroyed or damaged, you basically can't be a hero until you get it back. Someone with a Quirk is going to be just as effective, but far more efficient and cost effective in both time and resources. Not everyone is going to be fighting All For One, but not every wanna-be hero is going to have all the experience and resources of All Might, the most successful hero in the entire country, if not the world.

[rezonan]

Honestly wouldn't say Stain was wasted. Perfectly fine myself with how he went out tbh, I don't really need villians always getting some kind of redemption arc. But I DID want to see him have some kind of extended chat or interaction with Tenya, in that aspect I fully agree he was wasted.

I knew Stain was gonna die because he wasn’t a LoV villain but I'm still bummed.

Like he wanted to die, so he got what he wanted, but I sorta hoped it would be a bit more heroic, I guess. I mean, he honestly didn't do anything helpful except cheer on All Might and get killed. Just like with his past contribution, he could have been removed, and nothing changes.

I will forever be disappointed we never got tenya meeting him again or even thinking about him given this was supposed to be the villain redemption arc.

I also find it funny that so far, he's the only villain that has died trying to actually stop AfO/trying to do good. Like yes, Toga might have died saving Ochako, but it was from a wound she gave her. Meanwhile, Touya might have had his last breath, wishing his family was dead.

I'm just bummed it was so pointless and quickly moved on from. It wasn't even the end of the chapter. AfO turns him into juice, and that's the end of it--on to All Might, thinking of his other dead friends.

Which, yes All Might is far more important then Stain, but it does make it feel as if Hori just tossed him in so AfO got a kill and he tied up a lose end as fast as possible.

Given the past villain death scare chapters, I know hori can do touching ends. Like it would not have killed him to have a one panel flash back of Stain as a kid holding an All Might doll when he thinks about how he didn’t even have a high school education. It would have humanized him before becoming a blood splatter and renforced that villains used to be kids once.

Instead, we get panels of him sniffing blood on rocks. 😒

[rezonan]

At least Bruce has the excuse of having a year long arc of him becoming more and more unhinged to justify him being a black and white dumbass right now.

The Rest though? Giving me Civil War Iron Man vibes with how off they felt to me. Also the plan is really really dumb

Gotham Wars so far has Selina helping goons to steal from rich people and as a result violent crime has gone down. So far Bruce's response has been grrr crime is crime! Jason's has been hell yeah and Tim's has been hmm we need more data. And that's about it. But I've seen people react with horror at the thought that their fave might not end up on team Bruce in the future and gotta be honest I do not get it because from nothing but the situation and dilemma shown to us in issue 1... Team Selina obviously? I'm sure the situation will get more complicated but the poor people of Gotham stealing from millionaires instead of committing violent crimes is like. Objectively a good thing. There are better alternatives sure but being Robin Hood really isn't the worst. If you think the conflict is being badly written and set up that's a whole other debate but dc and batman twitter's knee jerk reaction to make Bruce right in every single situation is very funny I can't lie.

(I have no faith in DC handling this ideological confrontation well at all but also so far I don't think either Bruce or Selina is too far out of character sorry. Yes Bruce doesn't go around beating up people he donates to charities he's a good ex billionaire etc. Still going to have flaws and blind spots.)

[rezonan]

Batman #137 and Gotham War

Maybe it's cause I'm not American so I don't get the whole 'eat the rich' stuff I see a lot but I'm not really a fan of Catwoman's sanctioned breaking and entering being justified just because the victims are privileged, it's still freaking home invasion, I've had people I know die from heart attacks because of that stuff, not fun reading and seeing the batfamily look at it and go

Hurts

Not to mention it kinda just feels out of character how they all confronted Bruce IMO. C'mon I can buy *maybe* if they pushed characterization Jason and Steph(and that's a big maybe) but Dick and CASS(?) ?!. It's giving me Civil War Iron Man Vs Captain America vibes where personalities have to be changed in weird ways to get the storyline to even work.

So yeah not a fan. If anything it pisses me off. But I'll just calm down and try and understand this is some kind of cultural dissonance and I'm not getting what the writer is going for.

And this isn't to say I'm all on Bruce's side. The storyline for the past year now has been his spiralling mental health so he's obviously not in the right mind but I do think he's generally right, this is all bullshit.

Also not sure how this plan works. They are only so many rich people in Gotham, they can just leave because they have the money to do it. Seems like a lost cause. Not a fan of Selina boiling down Bruce's crusade to buying gadgets... Just no, no. If anyone she should be stealing from The Criminals, and the organized crime people. Canonically speaking they have hurt Gotham more. I don't buy the crime is down line.

Also that

Selina is not reforming criminals she’s training them so now they are even more effective at their jobs. The rich will start killing these dudes by hiring worse criminals to protect themselves, a woman already killed one of them out of fear in the last joker issue. What happens when one of the bigger villains get wind of this Selina plan? It feels like the book is acting like the thugs are the only issue in Gotham. Nope

Reading the last Joker issue makes it worse, Selina has gathered of of Gotham's criminals, Joker is back and is pretty fucking dangerous. I can see a serious blood bath happening tbh. But that's a stretch

ALSO AGAIN

The Court of owls are still a thing so there's that. But whatever

This entire story feels like a 17 year old trying to be deep and talk about how the real crime is class warfare. I can tell since I'm 17 myself lol

Oh my god, I don't know how the bat line is going to recover from this without it looking like an Asspull. It's reaching if not surpassed mid 2000s DC in levels of shit that is happening, infinite crisis barely saved it imo. At the end of this you'll probably have Damian and Bruce being isolated as Batman and Robin and the rest of the bat family doing whatever the fuck they would be doing (NW has the titans to lead I guess)

So yeah just not a fan. Happy to hear some thoughts on it though. Always open to alternate opinions