#lets call it discourse

[asteria7fics]

Serious question goobers, is there a South Park moment or episode that made you cringe out of your fucking skin?

Because I remember the first time I watched the little song and dance sequence at the end of Elementary School Musical and oh man. I don’t think I’ve ever had a more visceral reaction to something on this damn show, and that’s honestly saying something.

[idolomantises]

I just finished rewatching ATLA and I have to say…

Absolutely insane to me that people were insisting that Azula not getting a redemption was “misogynistic” and some kind of writing mistake. The girl told her dad to commit mass genocide.

[ingravinoveritas]

Bonus clip of Michael on the WTAWTAW podcast talking about his experiences with gender expression as a teenager in Port Talbot and mentioning his crush on John Taylor again. Transcript of notable highlights below:

Michael: "So when I was 12, 13--early '80s, the time that Allie is talking about--and I saw girls with lip gloss and wearing rah-rah skirts and leg warmers and stuff, [whispers] and I was a little bit jealous. Course, never said that, never said that. In Port Talbot if I'd mentioned that, my life would've been hell. But I do remember being quite...attracted by the trappings. A lot of trappings for girls. We didn't have stuff like that for boys. There were rituals for girls, doing your makeup, doing your hair." Michael: "I mean, my first crush--I said this on a thing I did called The Assembly recently--my first crush was a man called--ah, John Taylor from Duran Duran. Ohh, he was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. The way I processed it was, like, I'm gonna try and look like John Taylor, try and make my hair like John Taylor." Michael: "And they always used to have a bit of lip gloss going on, didn't they? Those New Romantics. But like I say, I couldn't really try that out in Port Talbot."

This goes directly back to things I have written about on my blog previously, about Michael having these feelings and not being able to express them because of where he grew up and the hateful climate that Section 28 fostered. This is why it is so difficult for someone of Michael's generation to label themselves, because none of that is lightly shaken off.

Even hearing the way Michael talks about it in the podcast, you can tell that this is not a joke, but a longing for something that he still remembers so vividly, because it meant so much to him at the time, and still does. Also, Michael has now mentioned his crush on John Taylor twice in the span of two months after not saying anything about it for years, and if that doesn't tell you where his heart and mind are right now, I'm not sure what does. Neither he nor David need a formal announcement to make it clear who they are, because they've already been telling us...

[fulltacs]

fuck it. free the blocklist.

tw for ableism, death threats, cw for general rage-inducing behavior

this is not exhaustive, this is a starting point. BLOCK these people, do not interact.

- literally anyone who interacts with @/ladygoth at this point. I don’t doubt that she and her friends are responsible for at least half of the hate anons received by darkfic writers

- as for the people who were “protecting” codslut/Myka… they’ve all been in my notifs liking my update post and un-liking sheheals post and deleting anything they might’ve said on the situation. yay, I guess. I may have unblocked you, but the other nosy people following everything certainly didn’t.

- on a related note, anyone who goes by “Myka” or “Hannah” gets blocked ON SIGHT (half-joking). I don’t care if that’s your name (please don’t put your real name on the internet) you better make up a new one 😤

- /bookobsessedram, /mothymunson, @starry-eyedblog , /ghostsbimbo, @ghostlywhiskey and @ghostly-whiskey, /angelofacidx, and @ladyxtiger were all involved in being assholes in the discord as seen here. not pictured: /bjornthebearguy and someone going by “spiders” in the server (not to be confused with /notspiders, my bad). and i’m sorely disappointed in /bunnyreaper, as mod, for letting them continue to chase people off, even though it had been brought to their attention before.

AND ESPECIALLY @simonrillleyyysss and @simonrillleyyyysss2 and @joostyklein (all their known alts). As a matter of fact, fuck everyone who’s friends with them (including /konigsblog). Jordi, G***, whatever the fuck you’re going by, I am so fucking sick of seeing your name in my DMs. So many people messaged me to say it was you and your gang’s hateful behavior that drove them away from the fandom, and I can vouch for some of them because I was there the whole time. What the fuck is wrong with you guys. I have a hard time believing your apology means ANYTHING when you used the discord to lead a brigade on Bo back in January, and CLEARLY HAVEN’T STOPPED being an asshole since then (“I still don’t like soapskneebrace either way”). Bo and Madi were not your only victims, again, there were quite a few others who came forward. You bullied anyone who disagreed with you and at the end of the day you only care about your follower count.

The craziest part is that most of the people we watched you bully are open about their autism diagnosis. And this was just a casual observation I made, not even an accusation, but five minutes later you make your first-ever very casual not-at-all-sus claim of having autism.

do you think we were born fucking yesterday. Trying to get ahead of ableism accusations by suddenly claiming to be autistic, even if true, is not gonna have the effect you thought it would, cause I wasn’t the only person who clocked that as WEIRD. (Internalized ableism is still ableism, btw.)

Just shut the fuck up. For once. It’s THAT SIMPLE. Leave everyone alone. Make your little posts without feeling the need to be assholes to other people.

Fun fact: I have received no death or rape threats in my anon mail, and maybe that’s because I’m not a very big blog. Or maybe it’s cause I know what all your fucking faces look like (hello, internet safety where?). I said fuck all y’all yesterday and I stand by that. Hopefully your time here is met with the same amount of love you’ve shown your peers.

[yuri-puppies]

deciding that affectionately referring to someone as a grandparent is some sort of ableist slur is one of the wildest takes i've seen in a while and it's genuinely baffling how much hold the idea has in certain sections of the fandom

i have such a positive association with that term as an expression of solidarity between disabled people

my (queer, neurodivergent, disabled) friend group in undergrad (in our 20s!) called ourselves "the grandmas" to express how alienated we felt from other young queers, to reclaim our "old lady bodies" and our "old-fashioned hobbies"

the middle aged and elderly folks saying my sibling and i "went old ahead of time" at low impact exercise and folk dancing classes were welcoming us into the fold and expressing solidarity

i hate the pain and fatigue of my disability, how unreliable it makes it and i occasionally resent the ways it excludes me from mainstream society

but i love elders and i'm glad to have been welcomed prematurely into their ranks

yes i know the linking of youth with ablebodiedness should be challenged, and i know my experiences aren't universal, but we also need to take things in the spirit intended. targeting disabled people expressing self-recognition through a fictional character or young folks poking fun of themselves for how disproportionately they perceive age is just weird and pointless

[aaronsinferno]

They’re comparing Tommy calling Buck “Evan” to trans people being called by their dead names again. I wonder if they have a group chat where they choose which community they’re going to use as their weapon of the week against us. If I recall, last time it was queer Black women, and how not putting 110% of our energy into Henren instead of the two white men made us racist and misogynistic. Don’t confuse this group chat with the one where they decide which minority group they’ll choose to police or be a mouth piece for, by the way. That’s a different group chat entirely…

[littletissueghosts]

Transmasc Person: "I am a straight guy, since I am a guy who loves women."

Toxic Queer People™: "Ew, straight guys are all predators, since only non-queer people are straight! Anyways, discrimination against straight men isn't real, even when they're a minority."

Transmasc Person: "Okay, I am a lesbian, since even if I'm not a woman, I still have a connection to womanhood."

Toxic Queer People™: "Lesbian is woman-only! If you are in any way a man or not a woman, you are not a lesbian! Transmascs can never be lesbians or have a connection to womanhood/a lack of manhood! Stop invading the lesbian community!"

I dare you to make it make sense.

[daisy-mooon]

"I want Annabeth to be blonde :(" then pick up a PJO book and read it you dumb fuck

[zwoftt]

how dorian and ashton feel after saying and making decisions that are in character for them based on the experiences they’ve been through and that make the story more interesting yet still manage to get backlash from it:

[buckleyskin]

hello bucktommy nation!!!

saw the 911onabc insta post and all the comments were, not surprisingly, about buddie becoming canon.

now, i can confidently say we won’t get buddie canon and more than likely bucktommy endgame because,

1. ryan stated eddie is straight.

2. ryan & oliver said they don’t want to fall into the “bi man falls for straight man” trope, they think the friendship they have now is beautiful.

3. oliver said he wants buck and tommy to kind of fall into tk & carlos footsteps.

4. tim loves tommy and bucktommy

so, when we inevitably don’t get buddie canon by the end of season 8, please tread carefully, block and report all hate we will receive - because can we be fr, we’re gonna get a lotttt of hate and d*ath threats on here, twitter, 911onabc will receive a lot, tim, lou & oliver will - and continue to be carefree and joyous of all of the scenes tim will feed us with this season!

much love to everyone 😊 it’s gonna be a long season, and when the hiatus comes it’ll be even longer, so let’s prepare. spread love, not hate.

[mountain-dew-tickledpink]

when you love christine but one side of the fandom makes her bad for getting in the way of a ship and the other half dumbs her down and makes her whole personality #girlboss

[54625]

I know we're all quite disappointed, now, about all of the things QSMP had going that will likely never happen. So I'm curious; what things can you think of, big or small, did we never get to see? A big arc planned, character growth that never occurred, a build never started or finished, a plot point that went nowhere, a question that was never answered, people who never reunited or met, even just a person reacting to/ seeing something.

Feel free to list as many as you can think of, or rant to your heart's content. We could all do with getting some of that grief of missed potential of our chests.

[eri-pl]

Silm reread 20: the Rains of Casaremírë (AKA: the Fall of Doriath)

Morgoth is not tired being evil. Or satisfied. Generally he won't chill out. Also, he hates Melian&Thingol especially (but this text is from the Grey Annals. the Annals of Aman put Turgon as "Morgoth's main problem"). So, he directs Húrin at them.

Hurin is suspicious of being freed (good thinking!), but what can he do? Nothing. He leaves. Also, he is let out with a sword, which is… making sure that nobody will trust him and everyone will assume he is a thrall. Also, Morgoth's minions respect him.

[Ugh, this must have been really weird for Húrin. The self-doubt. Am I a thrall unknowingly?]

He is not, but he is followed. So, Gondolin. Turgon is doubtful at Thorondor. He changes his mind but too late, Húrin leaves. Oh, and he curses this area. (Yes, I will bold each time someone curses)

Morwen dies, depression and despair, he blames everyone.

A reference to a "seer and harper from Brethil". So, Men do have seers. I mean, I knew they do because Adanel iirc… but this wasn't fully canon… also that one prophecy is stupid and I will keep complaining about it…

Also, a mention of "the days of the wrath of the Valar" reshaping the shores, so the War of Wrath was named after the Valar's wrath? Who weren't even there personally? Huh.

Húrin kills Mîm, at the gate of Nargothrond. Interesting. Also, it is said that it's public knowledge who betrayed Túrin, so — oh wait. No. He knows that from Morgoth, not from gossip. OK. So I still have no idea whether Túrin knew.

Thingollo is polite and respectful, but Húrin offends him and accuses him of causing Finrod's death (he's not completely wrong) and of mistreating his wife and daughter + throws at him the Casaremírë (Nauglamir).

Thingollo is still polite and takes the offense calmly and kindly. <3

Melian dispells Morgoth's magic on Húrin, and he apologizes.

And gives the necklace to Thingollo anyway. Which ends up being a bad idea. Also, it wasn't his to give. the dragon stole it from Orodreth, Mîm stole it again, and Húrin, whose son had owed money to Mîm (because of his promise of weregild. And yes, I think this makes it … not more evil as a choice, because Húrin did not know, but more impactful, more problematic metaphysically) killed Mîm and stole it again.

And Thingollo (who knew Finrod and tbh should feel a little guilty about his death) instead of starting to think "hmm, who should inherit after Finrod now?" takes it. Which may be a culture thing tbh. It is medieval-ish-something world. You don't disrespect gifts by giving them away, you just take them. Maybe. I'm not an expert.

Still, he could have at least talked to Húrin about "you know, Finrod's family…". BTW is there any left? Orodreth dead, Finduilas dead…. Gil-Galad if he is Orodreth's son. Galadriel! OK, so there was someone.

Húrin allegedly maybe threw himself in the sea. Anyway he is out of our scope, one way or another.

So… It comes into Thingollo's mind to join two problematic pieces of treasure (a dragon-tainted, stolen necklace and a Silmaril) into one. Also, the Silmaril grows precious to him—

OK, sidenote. The Silmarils are not evil, but clearly they are too much for almost everyone. People either grow obsessed or die quickly. But not all people. Earendil surely didn't. I guess it depends on personality (the obsession) and on fate-type (the dying).

So, he can not keep it in the deepest part of his treasury anymore— wait, what? You kept the gem in a cage too? Silmarils need proper enviroment, they need light and space and enrichment! Thingollo, you are as bad as a Silmaril owner as Feanáro!

OK, I already made a post on this.

The Dwarves. They too get super obsessed and want the stuff: both the necklace made by their ancestors and the Silmaril. But they keep it in secret.

They finish their work, it's beautiful, another sort-of-confirmation that the Silmaril's own light is white (it reflecting in gems into various colors make it even more beautiful. So. It doesn't have many colors on its own.)

The Dwarves finally talk to Thingol, but not honestly, he realizes that they want the gem, gets overwhelmed by emotions (I imagine Thingol having a switch in his brain: "be polite to Men" <-> "be polite to Dwarves" but he can't do both for some reason and switching it takes a long time) and he mocks them. He provokes them, they are greedy, everyone is emotionally disregulated and should go have some quiet time, they kill him and escape with the treasure.

We get an epitaph for Thingollo, canon confirmation that marrying Maiar is not a thing (except Thingol) and the last thing he looks at before death is the Silmaril.

I have a feeling that Námo will have some words to tell you, my guy. Not as many as to others, but still. Not great.

Anyway, Elves chase the Dwarves and kill most of them, the Dwarves tell a not-entirely-false-but-not-too-true-either story of what happenned to their kinsmen, they go to war.

Melian meditates, we get a flashback. She knows Doriath will soon fall, because the Girdle is now gone, because… ok, let's start this from the beginning.

So this is really cool but also pretty unique in terms of fantasy tropes. When Melian married Thingol, she accepted... ok, I need this in English.

For Melian was of the divine race of the Valar, [...] for love of Elwë Singollo she took upon herself the form of the Elder Children of Ilúvatar, and in that union she became bound by the chain and trammels of the flesh of Arda.

So the marriage is what's tying her to her material form (she had taken it at will back then but now, with Valinor being closed and all that I feeel like she normaly wouldn't be able to do it in ME, she was only able to be there embodied because the marriage to Thingol sort of anchored her)

In that form she bore to him Lúthien Tinúviel; and in that form she gained a power over the substance of Arda, and by the Girdle of Melian was Doriath defended through long ages from the evils without. But now Thingol lay dead, and his spirit had passed to the halls of Mandos; and with his death a change came also upon Melian.

So. Only the fact of being anchored to matter gave her the ability to keep the Girdle up. I know some Maiar can do things with matter anyway, but as I said, I suppose it's either a) because they're evil and/or b) because a Vala let them do it … in general, they are bound by something. And regardless of how the other Maiar do it, Melian lost the ability to keep the Girdle.

Thus it came to pass that her power was withdrawn in that time from the forests of Neldoreth and Region, and Esgalduin the enchanted river spoke with a different voice, and Doriath lay open to its enemies.

[Thank you, Reddit, for having all the quotes I need!]

Again, the "it came to pass" strongly suggests to me that it's not something she did, it's something that happenned to her as part of her nature.

Also, she removes herself, and goes to mourn in Lorien and is out of the story. (I'm sure they get back togetherwhen Thingol was reembodied — and that he was— and no matter how the canon feels about this I want them to have more children, who just live in Valinor in this slightly odd social position of "not a Maia but not fully not-a-Maia" and genrally have some happiness and low-stakes family drama)

The Dwarves invade, all Doriath is confused, Mablung dies protecting the Silmaril (still, he seems quite normal about it for someone who touched it twice).

Also "it's the saddest of all sad events of the Old Days" — seriously, Grey Annals? Again, for AoA it would be Tears Unnumbered. I should enjoy the diversity of opinions in the text. But I don't. It sounds like the authors are arguing with each other.

Dior and Nimloth mentioned, but that's all. On one hand, we were told that B&L never spoke to the living after their reembodiment. On the other, they do have a son and, it seems, a company. Who raised Dior? Like, who spoke with him?

Is it silent spooky B&L surrounded by a company of Elves who behave normally? Or do they live separately, in a distance and gave dior to be taught bu the Elves who live on this island, but separately from them? I can't imagine it.

Or is the "spoke to no one" thing just poetic exageration?

Hmm.. in chapter 20 only Beren is mentioned and it says "no mortal spoke to him" which may mean just Men. I'm not sure. Anyway this is weird and seems somwhat incoherent.

Anyway, the news spread quickly in the forest (how? Mycoryzal networks?) so Beren learns more or less what happenned and he and Dior go to the rescue (such is the wording in my book. So I guess they assumed there Dwarves were still attacking someone or intending to. Makes sense.) A big group of Green Elves joins them.

They ambush the Dwarves (Huh. Ambush. When Nargothrond did it, it was dishonorable... Huh. I think there is a lot in this story remaining from the older versions, back when the Dwarves were evil, or at least evil-ish and not deserving the full human Eruhini rights. Because technically they are not. Anyway. I do not like the inconsistent attitude about ambushes.) Also, the Ents help them. So i guess it is a good fight or at least Yavanna supports it (could you, please, respect your husband's children a bit more?), or at least the trees think Beren is cool.

This is weird. And seems off. And I will assume it is a part of text that Tolkien didn't fully update to the last version of his lore.

Beren killd Dwarf king (chieftain? whatever we call him), the king curses the whole Doriath treasure.

Aaaaand Beren looks at Feanor's gem with fascination. Here we go again. And washes it clean of blood in the river. (I considered adding a RoP gif here but let's not slabder Beren. still, bad vibe.)

At least he's got enough common sense to drown the rest of the treasure. But not this one. (A pity. Feanorians would fish it out, Deagol&Smeagol-style and be happy. Or something.)

He brings the Casaremírë+Silmaril to Lúthien, and she's so pretty in it. And amazing. And the land is fertile and full of light and looks like Valinor.

So…. why do they keep the Silmaril? For Beren, I think it's the standard "it's pretty, Luthien has suffered so much [chose mortal life and all that], she deserves it". Or maybe even "I deserve some beauty for all my pain", but i don't think he goes this low. It's just … slightly less than perfect attitude. "My loved ones deserve some beauty after all they suffered so I am going to give it to them". Also, why would he want to give it to Feanorians, who tried to kill him and threatened Thingol. (And fought a really bad battle but whatever)

No matter how much you love the Feanorians, please remember that this is a simple forest guy, ok, taught by the Sindar, but still. He probably knows nothing about the Oath, never met the Feanorians, has no idea of their mental state and their anguish, and not necessarily internalizes the whole "they are fighting Morgoth and dying on it" part.

Characters do have limited knowledge and did not read the book.

But… yes, I think him taking the jewel was not the best choice.

Lúthien? That's trickier. I think if she knew how much it means for the Feanorians, she would give it to them, because look how she told Beren to not kill Celegorm (or was that Curufin?). So either she knows that Silmaril+Feanorians = bad idea, for some reason (from Melian. Because foresight. But this would require Melian's foresight to change its opinion on the matter at some point, which we have no information about).

Maybe she just trusted that Beren knows what he's doing and didn't want to refuse his gift? And she had no idea how this looks for the Feanorians (remember, very likely nobody knows about the Oath, and it seems like the Feanorians told Thingol "it is ours" and "we will consider you our enemy" as their only reasons).

Melian advised Thingol to give the Silmaril back, but was Lúthien even present at this conversation? Or if she was, maybe her own foresight told her that this advice applied to Thingol then but not to her now?

Seriously, with how Lúthien is presented, I can't imagine her keeping the Silmaril if she believed that that Melian would advise against it or how much it means for the Feanorians. She seems to me a very compassionate person, and one who cares about her mothers opinions.

On the other hand, is Lúthien wearing the Silmaril such a bad thing? It came from Beren's not-great decision, but with how it's written, I don't think it's unilaterally bad. The Feanorians do not have a problem with it, or at least do not attack her (out of fear), the land is beautiful and sure this sounds egoistical, but maybe a brief moment of bliss was necessary? The Silmaril spent many years with Morgoth, then in Thingollo's treasury (why do they all keep them locked?!? i have thoughts about it. anyway) and is now sad. Yes, they do canonically have feelings. I don't think it's corrupted, but it is sad. Maybe it needs to recharge, before it will be able to become the star of hope.

I have no idea but I think like this year should contribute something positive. Otherwise the story feels odd and incoherent again. Or, at beast, feels like Tolkien … I'm not sure how to phrase it. Very slightly betrayed his story for a moment of nostalgia? The thing that the Valar did when they made Valinor. Settled for a known happiness of the past over … something? unknown?

OK, end of very speculatory ramblings, back to the reading.

And this is the moment when Dior decides to leave his parents. I think he wants to help the Elves in Doriath organize and rebuild. He is their king, after all. Still it's an interesting contrast: the island becomes a paradise and Dior leaves. I think it speaks well of him. He goes to work, putting duty above "mom pretty with shiny rock". And he restores Doriath successfully.

He gets the Silmaril, looks at it for a long time (unclear if this is bad looking or normal looking), mourns his parents, then puts on the necklace and becomes the most beautiful guy ever, even counting the Maiar. (dear authors of the Grey Annals, someone would lik a talk with you. He said his name is Mairon.)

Gossip starts… How is the gossip among Elves so effective and fast, with their numbers decreased by all the wars?

Anyway gossip, and the Feanorians. (+ a confirmation that no Elf would fight Lúthien). They send messangers to Dior, who does not answer. that's weird. What is his mental process at this point? Is Dior even socialized properly?

He could say "ok, but give me some time to mourn", or "no, you jerks, you attacked my parents and now dare to make demands" or many other things, but he does not answer. (Or is it: the Polish translation strikes again)

It must have been weird. Also: poor messangers. What a stressful job. :(

Instead of thinking "maybe we should wait till he grows up more" or "maybe we should talk to him in person", C&C get the bright idea of "let's kill them all as we told Thingollo we would do!"

And so they do.

And so they die.

Both sides lose (Doriath is destroyed with only a few survivors, but the Feanorians still have zero Silmarils, but now they have 3 dead brothers), so I guess Morgoth wins, but not really, because he doesn't get this Silmaril either and this will come to bite him later.

[ingravinoveritas]

Not Radio Times writing an entire article focused on Michael and David kissing and adding things like this. I see you, Radio Times...

[octolanternz]

how i feel when im free to talk about the light fury without a little annoying gnat in my ear whining about how useless and overfeminine and sexualized she is

[meadow-mellow]

me, getting notifs on twitter: *baby's first time being harassed by unhinged Romys <3* Sure, go off, lol. *proceeds to draw Magneto eating Rogue out*