#like I’ve seen Azula fans give iroh a lot of shit for calling her crazy

[idolomantises]

I just finished rewatching ATLA and I have to say…

Absolutely insane to me that people were insisting that Azula not getting a redemption was “misogynistic” and some kind of writing mistake. The girl told her dad to commit mass genocide.

[bellatrixobsessed1]

On Azula Fans vs...The Rest Of The Fandom???

 So I was talking with several people (@wingsfreedom, @wish-i-was-fiction, and @iabsentmindeddreamer--though I didn’t actually reply to them, just read their post) on this post (https://wish-i-was-fiction.tumblr.com/) and I wanted to write my own desperate post as I have been kind of thinking about for a while but have been hesitant to post because Idk how it would be received/I don’t want to start anything. But it looks like a thing has already started so I might as well.

I’ll start by saying that this isn’t a Bryke, Yang, or any part of the fandom hate post.

The thing I’ve been wanting to talk about is that I feel like Azula fans (and Zutara fans) are kind of being ostracized by the fandom and I feel like the creators kind of help that happen.

I can’t say when I started feeling this, I think that it might have been around the whole Azula vs Katara debate. That whole ordeal made me feel like Azula fans just aren’t taken seriously/aren’t respected even in in civil discussion. Like I ended up pulling out of that debate because I felt as though people were becoming dismissive and/or aggressive. I’m not saying it was everyone, not at all. But there were a handful. And yes, I am aware that it came from both sides. But that debate has since died down, which I’m glad for. 

The point is, things like this seem to keep happening. I also think that there’s a certain user who keeps targeting specific portions of the fandom and says things in the fan tags that come off to me as very instigating and antagonizing. These posts tend to lead to a whole bunch of people coming along to completely drag Azula’s character through the mud and eventually her fans as they try to defend her character and justify liking it. I’ve since blocked that user, because (though they’ve always been rather civil with me) I just got tired of seeing hate towards a fandom I’m in and I started to worry that I wouldn’t be able to keep conversation civil. I say this because I want everyone to know that, though I’ve mentioned this person, I don’t particularly have bad blood with them or whatever. Those two things I mentioned were kind of the catalyst in me thinking that Azula fans are kind of isolated from the rest of the fandom. 

And if this is beginning to sound familiar; I turn everyone to Zutara. The very first part of the fandom to be cast out of the fandom in a sense. Now I never shipped Zutara, in fact I hate it very much. And I used to think that the Zutara fans were ‘bitter’ and ‘hostile’. Now I kind of sympathize with them. I feel like that bitterness comes from not only not being able to see their ship on screen, but also because they’re kind of the black sheep of the fandom. To the point where even the creators seem to shit all over them and make fun of them and this is NOT okay. Because when creators start making fun of sections of the fandom, even in jest, it basically gives the fandom a green light to do the same. Like, ‘oh the creators do it, so its fine if we do’. It creates for a very bad and unfriendly atmosphere. 

I feel as though the same thing is starting to happen with Azula fans. With Yang calling them a cult (even if this was a joke I feel like it is in very poor taste) and Hicks saying that they are scary. Etc. 

There are two things that I think happen here (and it is the same stuff that happened with Zutarians).

1. Anti’s post hate in Azula’s tag (and the Zutara one) and fans get ont he defensive

2a. Some vocal people--seemingly on twitter--send hate to creators and the creators react creating a chain. 

2b. Some fans started 

I’ll discuss point 1 first because this happened first. I feel like one of the biggest problems is that a handful of people have begun to post Azula hate in her fan tags. Once upon a time people kept hate out of the fan tags with the exception of one or two posts every now and again. Then it started happening. And I have never seen an instance where massive amounts of hate in a fan tag was met with a positive response. The hate was posted and there was a reaction. Some fans were more kind in their responses and others got more aggressive. The amount of aggression increased as the volume of hate increased. And this I understand why Azula fans and Zutara fans get so irritated. We just want to enjoy our tag and see love for Azula and Zutara. But people keep knocking them. And so it puts fans on the defensive and starts a chain; hate is posted, fans argue back, anti’s now feel justified in their hate (and fans feel justified in their outrage), and more fighting happens. 

All the while a second chain was being created. Unfortunately I do think that this one was started by the Azula and Zutara fandoms (mostly on twitter). I’ve noticed and have been bothered by this. I’ve been rather quite on this one because I like the people in this fandom and I love talking to them. But there are a few people who I feel like are being rather unfair or harsh. I feel like this fandom has become a bit of an echochamber for shitting on the comics and on other characters (mostly Iroh, Zuko, and Ursa) and I can see how that would be off putting. Like people started woobifying Azula and using other characters to prop her up I feel like this actually drove several people away. Granted I feel like this was actually a bit reactory as well--people kept using Azula and hating on her to prop Zuko up and so the opposite began to happen. But I digress; I’ve started to notice that people started taking an almost ‘Azula did nothing wrong/is the victim mentality’. And I strongly disagree with that. I won’t get into that now because that’s not the discussion. But it began to get off putting for me personally. But I like the character and fans of her enough to stay.

Between the above and that crazy Sokkla vs Tyzula ship war, we lost a lot of really fun people who used to shitpost, make fanart, and write fics. And so the bulk of our tag has disintegrated into discourse and arguing instead of having fun like back in the day.

And then the hate began to stray from discourse to, actually sending hate to the creators; Yang in particular. Again I think that this was more of a twitter thing (hence why I don’t use twitter, I think that it’s a nightmare of a site tbh and a breeding ground for bad behavior). A good vocal few kept complaining about how the comics and show were/was being written and after receiving so many harsh comments the creators began to react. I’m gonna just say it; I don’t think that Bryke (in the above link) was in the wrong here. I feel like they were pretty tactful and respectful in their wording. And as a fic writer I 100% agree with them that it is their story and so they should write it as they see fit, even if I don’t like xyz plotline. And as someone who has had someone try to strong arm me into writing my fic their way, I understand their frustration.  My issue lies with Yang mostly. His ‘the Azula fandom is kind of a cult’ left a really bad taste in my mouth. Joke or not, this kind of grants people permission to judge the entire fandom. And we already saw it a bit in the very clip. This girl asked an innocent question, that response was her answer, and the crowd actually laughed. I feel like that was probably very uncomfortable for her. This was followed up by Hicks saying “I got a scary email from an Azula fan...please be nice to me guys”. Again, I’m not gonna knock Hicks too much because I feel like she’s still new (at least to Avatar) and that hate-mail can be quite rattling. 

The point I’m trying to make is that a second chain has been created. Once Yang made his cult remark that cued a lot of outrage in the Azula fandom and it was a green light for them to openly hate on him and his work. Which is something that was already happening. In this regard I am kind of on Yang’s side. I’ve noticed that the fandom began to religiously knock Yang for everything he did with the comics in the same way that Zutarians started knocking Bryke for everything Kataang. Again I found myself off put by all the hate because I actually kind of enjoyed the comics. Discussion of the comics always seemed to lead to more debating over whether they were good or not. I do feel like Yang didn’t like Azula’s character from the start, but people sending hate and him seeing this probably didn’t help. 

Eventually he reacted with his cult remark and so the fans felt justified in being more spiteful to the man. They started posting more hate. And so Yang probably feels more justified in thinking that her fan base is scary. And so the people who haven’t been posting hate and sending mean tweets his way are viewed as scary and mean too. 

Where I disagree with Yang is that he made that remark at all. While I understand being frustrated, I really hated that generalization. As mentioned above, even the fans who liked the comics are now associated with unkindness and hate. I really enjoyed the comics, though that enjoyment is kind of shadowed by a feeling of being unwelcomed. And with his generalization I think that it kind of puts a bit of the stigma around the fandom in the exact way that Zutarians have a stigma of being hostile. 

And when such a stigma is created it starts to become true because the fans feel like, ‘well they already see us this way, might as well be this way’. It starts to become true because others go into the tags to knock fans for being aggressive to the creators and so more people get defensive and the cycle just continues. 

Now with Azula’s fandom, this is only just starting, but I can see it getting to Zutara levels pretty quickly. And that’s a shame because this fandom is something I have enjoyed for a while and I like being able to react with other parts of the fandom. But personally I haven’t been venturing outside of the Azula tag much because I feel like I’m only going to see hate and arguing if I do. 

Idk, I hope that this didn’t come off as antagonizing to anyone because I’m not trying to blame any one group of people. Tbh I think that everyone has kind of played their part in this hot mess. I just really wanted to get this off of my chest. Mostly because I want people to tell me that I’m wrong lol and that the Azula fandom isn’t becoming a black sheep fandom and that I’m seeing something that isn’t actually there lmao.

I hope that I was able to explain things clearly, fairly, and kindly. Feel free to discuss in the comments and stuff.