#lee!spock

[1shirt2shirtredshirtdeadshirt]

Sexism in TOS: Worst Offender, or Progressive in Retrospect in Comparison?

I see a lot of folks claim that TOS was the most sexist of the Star Trek shows by a landslide -- and while I agree that it definitely suffered from the sexism of the times, I also have other perspectives to share to give some food for thought.

I am of course not insinuating that TOS isn't sexist -- it is, but I have to ask folks to consider the breadth and depth of Berman's sexism in his run and ask yourself: Was Gene Roddenberry genuinely more sexist in his storytelling and delivery than Rick Berman?

I'm not telling you to feel one way or the other, but all I ask is that you hear me out and consider some perspectives and make your own balanced assessments. Nobody is obligated to share my opinion, but it means a lot just to have folks hear it and see their thoughts on the subject. So here is what I was originally responding to:

Someone's response to this photo:

"Devil's advocate. This was a part of the popular form of cardio during the production time of TNG. Yes, it was heavily sexualised by men, but so is literally every other way women work out. Men have been caught taking pictures of women while trying to do dead lifts, running on tracks and working on sled machines. They post them online to share too. The fact is, there is no way a woman can be shown working out without it going there. And yeah,t hat includes the combat forms of workout they do in Star Trek. Just look at how Dax dresses when she spars with Worf. Yes, they're dating, but still, same goes when 7 does and any other female.

Aerobics routines like this were made dirty and cringy. This was what women wore then by and large. This is how the workout was done. We make it cringy."

My response to them:

"I respect your take, but I disagree on a few fronts.

The miniskirt was chosen by the TOS female cast, not the male cast, specifically requested by Grace LW and affirmed by Nichelle and Majel who would go on to vehemently defend the miniskirt over the years as comfortable and embraced by them.

Grace said it was comfortable and seen as a symbol of female sexual empowerment during the 60s and thought it would be a progressive garment (and turns out that it was, as it was later adapted and worn by male crew as a skant on TNG) -- FYI those were designed by a gay man and Gene approved them.

This was also supposed to be Spock's TMP outfit:

Literally lingerie.

We saw both Uhura (who saves Kirk in from Marlena Mirror Mirror) and Yeoman Landon (the first to initiate combat with a classic Kirk-esque kick to help the Captain being attacked in The Apple) carry out their combat training in their Starfleet uniforms without ever being made to change into any ridiculous workout gear.

In fact, I'd argue Jim Kirk was sexualized even more than the ladies of the week on the show and I saw his naked body more than anyone else's on a fairly regular basis. He wore red yoga tights while topless in Charlie X while the women wore full length gymnastic suits that covered their entire body. If anything, it went out of its way to avoid sexualizing women practicing fitness in those scenes and instead focused on Kirk.

Gene confessed that he asked to have Shatner filmed in suggestive/provocative ways to "give something to the ladies", so he -- as he said -- liked to "film him walking away" or have him conveniently busting out of his shirts in just about every episode as it were, because Shatner apparently had great assets. LOL

Gene made an effort to at least sexualize both if he was going to sexualize one, and he carried that attitude forward in wanting the m/m and f/f scenes in the background on Risa for TNG. He also insisted that the men and women wear skimpy outfits on THAT TNG planet. You know the one. LOL I mean the dudes even had on less than the women:

Gene also gave permission to K/S shippers to have their conventions back in the 70s when he was asked for permission. Gene and Nimoy felt with all the skimpy outfits they had the ladies wear, why not let the ladies and gay men have their fun, too? It's how we ended up with moments like this:

Yes, those are two people dressed up as Kirk and Spock's penises doing interpretive dance. Gene didn't give two damns. LOL

In my eyes, that was a very progressive take on Gene's part for the 60s. It was actually PARAMOUNT STUDIOS who had the big problem with K/S stories and vehemently tried to shut them down. Gene literally hired slash authors on his payroll and even had several slash stories/writers published in his official Star Trek books (The New Voyages & The New Voyages II).

I feel I saw Uhura and women in TOS engaged in more physical combat/altercations defending themselves that Troi or Bev were shown holding their own.

In fact, Kirk used to get furious when someone would "dress up" his female crew members without their consent (Trelane episode, Shore Leave episode) because like his male crew members, he wanted them to be treated professionally and to also have his male crew act professionally.

Berman brought some of his own personal biases into Star Trek that in some ways regressed it. While TOS had blatant sexism and was called on it time and again, that show was made in the 60s -- a solid 21 years before TNG. We as a modern audience understood why some of it was cringe/sexist due to the time period -- look at any other media coming out in the 60s and Star Trek was miles ahead of what other shows were doing.

Compare that to Berman who was churning sexist stuff out when women like Starbuck and Scully were simultaneously on screen on other programs airing, and we had already had Sigourney Weaver and other strong women in Holywood playing respectful roles.

In my eyes, there was no need of the sexism seen in TNG but especially VOY and ENT. There was no excuse for it when other shows were writing women far better and a number of those weren't even set in the future like Trek was, making it age even faster due to having those dated perspectives frequently highlighted.

In the Center Seat documentary as well as "The Fifty Year Mission" book you will find cast members, writers and other studio alumni who attest to this. Some discussions from "The Fifty Year Mission":

"First, Berman was supposed to have been a real sleaze ball . . . According to Terry Farrel, he would go on constantly about how her breasts weren't big enough, how she should do something about it, and how his secretary was a good example to follow as she had huge breasts. She even had to have fittings to get larger bras, and that was all done at his behest.

Later Berman and Braga developed a name for Jeri Ryan's character prior Seven of Nine. They originally called the character "perineum" which if you look it up it is the area between the anus and the scrotum. Later they floated the name "6 of 9". I mean, what does it tell you about where these two were coming from in the development of this character if they had names like that put forward in all seriousness for her?"

Gene Roddenberry also had some of his own more progressive ideas for TNG cut or watered down by Berman. Roddenberry agreed TNG should have homosexual relationships and representation at a con in the 80s and insisted on it in a meeting with his writers -- something Berman later would not honor. Gene wanted the AIDS episode, showing m/m and f/f in the Riza scenes -- these were some of Roddenberry's requests to include in TNG that Berman later stonewalled.

Berman's era was sadly dated by his own misogynist bias, IMO, to the point that it can somewhat hurt the shows he worked on through his cringe egoism and blatant disrespect toward his female cast.

There is a reason why Gene could keep female actresses working with him and Berman had a revolving door of women that he couldn't seem to keep working for him -- he was abhorrent to women, on and off set. Gene wasn't perfect at all, he had a lot of issues himself -- but Berman was a whole other level. Just look at what he did to poor Jolene Blalock, Marina Sirtis and his toxic commenting on her body weight which exacerbated her struggles with eating disorders, or how he treated and talked to Terry Farrell.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm not saying anyone is wrong regarding a take like that, but there are a variety of ways to look at this. Gene Roddenberry isn't a saint by any means, but it definitely bothers me how folks will tote the Berman era as if it were the lesser of two evils or the more progressive depiction of women when I felt there were far more concerning portrayals of women in his era with far less justification.

(P.S: I don't event want to go near the sheer amount of "creepy old dude/villain preys on innocent/naïve/scared young woman or little girl" stories there were in Berman's era, either. But that's a whole other can of worms I can write about in a part 2.)

[defconprime]

Spectre of the Gun by Lee Lightfoot

[atomic-chronoscaph]

Leonard Nimoy and Grace Lee Whitney - Star Trek (1966)

[spacecapart]

Since I'm a little bit worried about money this month, I thought I'd make a big post plugging my online shop!

These prints are just a small selection of what you can find on my Storenvy, which there's a link to on my blog page and in my pinned post. I've got more than 60 prints of various sizes, and nearly 150 button badge designs featuring characters from dozens of fandoms!

I'd really appreciate it if you checked it out, and just sharing this post is a huge help as well.

[seo-changbinnies]

gifs of my sunshine (168/∞)

[thegroundhogdidit]

i just accidentally called something fascinating because my friend always does it i understand how mccoy felt in the movies now

[chernobog13]

Space Mommy and Space Daddy with their weird teenaged son.

[misfitmiska]

Just found out that Grace Lee Whitney is older than William Shatner and for some reason this is so funny to me… I just can’t stop thinking about 33 year old Jim freaking out about his Young Attractive Female Yeoman like “oooh but I’m her SUPERIOR OFFICER and she must feel so INTIMIDATED by me because she’s so YOUNG” and Bones being like “you know she’s Spock’s age right? She celebrated her 36th birthday last week”. Like that wouldn’t change anything but in my head it’s funny.

[fanfictionismyaddiction]

Hey, my requests are open

I decided I would also like to write for other fandoms outside of f1.

I’m thinking about:

Criminal minds

Aaron Hotchner

David Rossi

Emily prentiss

Game of thrones

Little finger

Tywin Lannister

Tyrion Lannister

Sansa stark

John snow

Star trek

Leonard McCoy

Spock

Christopher pike

Harry potter

Severus Snape

Sirius Black

Remus Lupin

Lord of the rings

King Thranduil

NCIS

Leroy Jethro Gibbs

Sherlock

Mycroft homes

The walking dead

Negan

Celebrities

Alan Rickman

Lee Pace

Pedro pascal

Zak Bagans

Let me know if you want other fandom or characters I’m open for everything.

Drop a request.

I would be happy to write it

[catogorizing-like-no-man-before]

TOS S1E4 Where No Man Has Gone Before

Rating - ⭐⭐⭐⭐🔘

Another classic episode. I love the planetside settings of these early episodes. Delta Vega is a work of art. The conflict Kirk has between the safety of his ship and the safety of a long time friend and crew member is compelling.

Speaking of Kirk, I think this is the first ripped shirt. I find the fight scene choreography so charming. It's not good, but it's entertaining and demonstrates some physical prowess. It makes me smile.

I also like the tin foil contacts. That's a cool effect for the time period.

I think it's funny Star Fleet is tracking members' ESP levels.

The one thing that I thought was too silly was when Mitchell and Dr. Dehner are shooting lightning at each other. What are the hand gestures they're doing?

I miss Bones in this episode. I'm sure he could have added some interesting philosophical takes.

Summary

USS Enterprise intercepts a black box from the SS Valient, which went missing 200 years ago. Near that area of space, they get trapped by a mysterious anomaly. Crew members with high ESP levels get zapped with lightning. Some die but Gary, Mitchell, a school friend of Kirk's starts having strange symptoms.

Well for the time - 😬🔘🔘🔘🔘

Misogyny

I don't love the treatment of Dr. Dehner, but honestly, the fact that she's a doctor and she is the one to do the right thing and give Kirk an opening to beat Mitchell is impressive for the time.

Characters

James Kirk

Spock

Lee Kelso

Scotty

Alden

Gary Mitchell

Smith

Dr. Piper

Dr. Elizabeth Dehner

Sulu

Ships

USS Enterprise

SS Valient

Planets/Places

Aldebaran Colony

Canopus

Delta Vega

Dimorus

The other kind of ship

Spirk - ☺️

Just some flirting over chess

[nerds-yearbook]

After the first pilot was rejected, Star Trek was almost completely recast with the exception of Mr Spock (Leonard Nimoy). The first episode of Star Trek aired on September 8, 1966. While The Man Trap was the first episode to air, it was actually the 6th one produced. Supposedly it was chosen as having more action than the other episodes. It was also supposedly one of the least favorites of Leonard Nimoy and William Shattner. The episode took place during 2266 (eleven years after the events of The Cage, which was the original pilot and later recut as The Menagerie). The episode introduced Captain James T Kirk (William Shatner), Dr McCoy (DeForest Kelley), Yeoman Janice Rand (Grace Lee Whitney), Sulu (George Takei), Uhura (Nichelle Nichols), and (off screen) Montgomery Scott (James Doohan). ("The Man Trap", Star Trek, TV, Event)

[defconprime]

Spock and Horta by Lee Lightfoot

[kaffkanya]

idk how to explain you why i wholeheartedly believe this but i think lee pace would make a

a) good spock

b) good pre-reform spock

just give him more chest hair and were good to go

[mexicanwanderingsoul]

Before adopting the term "bisexual" to describe myself (and before knowing what that even meant), I used to watch domestic scenes with Holmes and Waston over and over.

The Sherlock Holmes books and movies were the first type of media that made me think that living with someone of my same gender, someone I deeply cared about, was completely normal.

I've posted before a meme about how my ADHD made me relate to Holmes unlike any other fictional character, but in retrospective, in a way, he also helped me accept my sexuality.

Watching The City on the Edge of Forever made me feel like that again. I could watch a whole series of Spock and Kirk living together in a house having a normal life. Once again, my neurodiversity saw itself reflected on a character--this time it was Spock.

When I began to watch The Next Generation, I related to Data... and look what season 2 gave me:

Anyways, I hadn't exactly planned how to end this very personal post.

Happy pride month!

[fauna-and-floraa]

this segment is still my favourite. like it actually makes me cry with laughter.

[schwing-alicious]

Made a chart for .. well, boredom?

Science mfs

Blank under;

Not accepting constructive criticism at this time, ty, its 7:30am and i spent 5 hours making this bc i kept adding niche ass characters no one but me gives a shit about like Kokubunji (Naive Electric) or Reiji (Gravitation)