#it wasnt even a queerbait at this point

[graciepoetsociety]

i was fighting for my life the first time i watched the c word and i witnessed gregory ‘displays genuine affection about twice throughout the entire show’ house lovingly and earnestly run his hand through james ‘the only person he’s ever truly loved’ wilson’s hair and i to this day have still not recovered it haunts me in my sleep it is imprinted onto my eyelids

[demadogs]

hello loveliest person ever. would you consider no byler to be queerbait ?

hey bestie

if byler didnt happen i would genuinely believe that their intention was to go through with it but they dropped it or were told to drop it. because if its queerbait theyre literally doing it all wrong? the ultimate goal of baiting is to gain an audience from a selected community, in this case the queer community, by promoting the media as potential representation and yet they have done everything in their power to AVOID this with byler.

for starters the majority of queerbait is usually achieved in the marketing side of things. and yet there was ZERO joint press with noah and finn, where they could have promoted byler the most. almost all of their scenes are together but they deliberately separated them so there wasnt even a chance for spoilers about byler. that is not how you queerbait.

queerbaiting is supposed to be obvious. it shouldnt require elaborate theories, it should be thrown in our faces. this article shows a clip of a trailer from riverdale that includes a gay kiss. i think the kiss was just to distract the character, it wasnt intended to be romantic at all and yet they put it in the trailer? that was obviously for the goal of getting queer audiences more excited and more likely to watch this (absolutely fucking horrendous) show.

on the flip side!! theres also straight bait and again, aaaaalll in the marketing.

i cant even believe these are real lmao.

they did this for s3 too. theres a flash of this in the s3 trailer, which had lots of mlvn shippers thinking this was the season of nothing but love for them and yet el broke up with him in the second episode. we also get audio of mike saying “we’re not kids anymore” but no visuals that showed he was talking to will and definitely not the “its not my fault you dont like girls” line, which would have been such a clear opportunity to queerbait.

and s4 was very gay and they could have so easily grabbed a LOT of peoples attention and curiosity by adding some byler scenes in the trailer but there was nothing.

could you imagine if they showed one of these in the trailer?? they had such a clear opportunity to queerbait and they didnt.

the only thing they did include was this and i didnt even notice will the first time i watched it.

the only things we’ve seen in the marketing that relate to byler are from netflix accounts in other countries that loosely imply that they ship byler but thats literally it. and these accounts dont actually have any access to the writers room. theyre not implying or confirming anything theyre just trying to be relatable and a lot of people would relate to the post if they mention byler.

aside from them just avoiding the topic in the promotion for the show, theres also the fact that byler has inspired loads of in depth theories and analyses based on how they portray them in the show. the point of queerbaiting is to throw it in your face. “look a gay kiss! watch our show to see gay people!” the fact that we’re reading into shit like lighting, colors, music, framing, all this stuff that the ga doesnt read into is a big sign that their goal isnt queerbait. one time i got an anon that summed it up perfectly, “why would they queerbait only to gay film nerds?” and its so true.

queerbaiting should not have people thinking too hard. like the kiss in riverdale, its supposed to be shoved in our faces in order to actually achieve what theyre trying to do. not everybody has time or cares enough to read entire analyses on specific film choices, and because of that, they would be completely failing to bait people. the goal is to gain their audience and no one has been baited for this because it doesnt seem obvious that its actually going to happen.

because of all this if byler didnt happen i dont think queerbait would be the right word. itd be a whole different thing entirely and i would genuinely believe they were forced to not go through with it if it didnt happen. but i highly highly doubt that would ever happen. its netflix’s biggest show and they trust the duffers and its the last season so even if people dont like it its not like theyd lose money because people would stop watching. by then theyd already finished the whole show.

[styxnbonez]

gonna kinda,, infodump for a second cuz im thinking abt a new guy i invented last night while Very High dsfhjkdf so dont mind me <3

so i was drawing last night and i got to the point where i was just . doodling for the sake of it and i drew a guy who kinda looked like every 2010s letsplayer so i just kinda ran w it and fucked around w a guy whos more youtuber than he is person...

i was high as shit and wasnt making much sense but i do like the ideas ive come up w since so ill still share the image !

he like,, focuses so much on content and his persona that he kinda starts forgetting who he rlly is? i went more abstract here but if i am to actually do anything i think itd be more of a dissonance between the persona he puts on for his videos and the Actual guy rather than a physical thing yknow.

didnt wanna draw again so i was fucking around w some picrews which i will Also share cuz i like em :]

(i used these two picrews btw)

he Doesnt have a name yet idk . i wanna give him some random white boy name that isnt even actually his yknow ? also the thing w his eyes is that he has hazel eyes but he has the color settings on his camera so that everythings just a liiittle brighter so his eyes look more green than they are, and his fans just. draw his eyes green . also he has a snake :] he loves her dearly :]

OKAY so while i was making these picrews i was like "hmm. should i add him to hex and moes story?? or like,, make a series out of this universe*, since theyre both abt a specific brand of youtubers" and i still havent decided (maybe once i have more story w this guy ill think abt it more) BUT i did find a character to potentially connect him with:

anas shitty ex boyfriend who killed her <3

so the lore on anastasia is that she was dating this dude and he killed her after she broke up w him after realizing she was aro. then she haunts her apartment, which hex and moe move into, eventually possessing moe to avenge herself and kill her shitty ex boyfriend <3 yay <3

i only had a little bit abt her bf, just enough for him to not feel too flat, cuz while he Is a major driving force in the story, he doesnt get much of a role and he dies anyway so like. ive been focusing on the main characters ofc. but i Did make him in One picrew a year or two ago and i Think i gave him a name (based on what the file name of the picrew i have of him is called):

(picrew i used)

i believe his name is vessel. he named himself in the "omg this is such a good word im gonna look so chill and swag if i change my name to it" (looks like a loser) way, not the trans way. bro is Painfully cishet dfhjg but like,, hes a hipster and a condescending dick and thats. all i had tbh.

but now im thinking abt making him Youtube Guys roommate/fellow youtuber who all the fans ship him with (this is a bad thing btw i dont,, ship real ppl ofc lmao) and i Do wanna redesign him a tad but ..... the bones of smth more fleshed out are there now.... hes not just Some Guy Ana Kills....

the idea thus far is that Youtube Guy knew abt what vessel did to ana, but kept quiet for their careers + thats his Roommate and Best Friend. he had the capacity to kill his own girlfriend (albeit Sort of unintentionally), if Guy speaks up vessel is Absolutely going to kill him!!! something something toxic yaoi but its not really yaoi and theyre queerbaiting the internet and Guy doesnt feel safe around vessel anymore<3

i Could make them the same guy (they look similar but im gonna change that) but. the funny youtuber yaoi appealed to me more than the more logical answer dfghjd maybe ill consider it sometime in the future but what abt my two content creators who start to lose their sense of self through years of appeasing the parasocial audience in Very different ways (one thinks hes the greatest thing ever, even above murder and the other is scared and sad and lost all the time) ?? i like them a lot and what are ocs for if not mashing together random silly tropes you enjoy?

ermmm sorry for yapping so much uhhh . i wanna start actually,, posting abt my ocs instead of being vague and pretending everyone knows what im on abt at any given moment <3 so im gonna start doing that now methinks :]]

[asura22zoro]

it doesnt matter that sun wasnt a main character and some things I have to say in regards to bb and blacksun

I am going to reiterate what I said before bb reeks of direction chane they gave blacksun years of teasing mutual attraction adn development pointing to blacksun being endgame while bb got nothing and then immediately threw out blacksun for bb once sun left.

I do not buy the claim that bb was planned from the start for the writing doesnt support that ( they gave blacksun so much that at that point even if they are telling the truth ( I dont believe they are but)

they were never obligated to make bb canon

and a main character doesnt always end up with a main character

look at naruto who ended up with hinata

saying there will be same sex ships doesnt mean a member of the main cast has to be lgbt or in a same sex ship.

( there is no doubt that if bb didnt become canon and instead blacksun rosegarden and white knight became canon they would get accused of queerbaiting

"people bitched about lgbt characters in rwby to the point of personal attacks against the creators and the more they tried giving they got more demanding

people of rwde/rwby haters dont argue in good faith

promising lgbt characters isnt promising people the main characters will be lgbt

and queerbaiting has been abused to my same sex ship wasnt made canon.

[mihai-florescu]

And the "is enstars queerbait or not" is such a bizarre question. Obviously trap for you is bait, thats the thing i see people point out whenever this argument breaks out (can u tell i was on twt today. Dreadful place, would not recommend). But you cant look at me and say wataei is the same as hiyojun kissing in a mv. Eichi and Wataru being gay is not even subtext, it's just in the text. I don't know how you'd interpret the story without them being in love, like, genuinely. It wasnt done by accident either. You could argue about izuleo too but I don't have much expertise on them so i leave the mic to whoever is more well read in knights stories. I'm sorry if it's not the gay rep you want, but it's here.

[tamlinrose]

Good Omen 2 Spoilers

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Needless to say I’m devastated, obviously. The season was amazing, the writing, the acting, everything, and I was SO sure it was going to end with a drunken breakfast at the Ritz like Crowley. I was SO SURE they were going to kiss and happy music would swell and it was going to be all fine and dandy.

And of course I’m heartbroken for how It turned out, of COURSE I’m devastated that Aziraphale fundamentally missed the point that Crowley doesn’t want to be an Angel again, he doesn’t want to be a demon, he wants to be AZIRAPHALE’S.

Of course I’m so fucking sad that Crowley finally was vulnerable, and it came at just the wrong moment, the wrong time, the wrong wording to convince Aziraphale heaven can’t be fixed, because the thing is, Aziraphale is still brainwashed by the idea of Good. He is SO used to heaven being unkind that the second they throw him a bone he jumps, thinks “this is a chance for things to be different!” And is completely blinded by his own need to feel like a part of something bigger that he can’t see the truth, that they are manipulative and always will be, that if he didn’t have respect before he certainly won’t now, and most importantly That CROWLEY has never treated him like that, not once.

On the other hand, for all the people who are devastated and saying that they won’t rewatch, that they’re burning the bridge of their interest in good omens, that this is queerbait, it’s NOT. That’s your prerogative to stop watching of course, but the point is this is an UNFINISHED TALE. 6 episodes couldn’t cover the story, the overarching story, and this season didn’t have what would have been essential to Crowley and Aziraphale truly ending up together.

Crowley said it himself, Aziraphale WASNT THERE when they told him to shut up and die. He doesn’t believe heaven is as bad as it is because he hasn’t witnessed the true coldness up there in so long, and he’s NORMALIZED to the neglect and abuse he faces up there in a way many abused people are. He thinks that one bone is enough, that he can fix them, and he always would have felt that, which is why He NEEDS a personal arc where he realizes this on his own and stands up for himself AGAINST HEAVEN. THIS is his opportunity to do that. THAT is why the writers made him go back, he needs to know for himself before he can accept it.

THATS why Neil Gaiman is saying on his blog that he needs a season 3 to complete the arc. The writing timing of this falling out is intentional to keep the show alive to get to that point. If this tragic moment was left for Season 3 Ep 1 and they dined at the ritz like normal for Season 2 finale, there wouldn’t be any development we need for Aziraphale, and more importantly, if would feel like there was no need for a season 3. This tension is the writing worlds way of PRESERVING this show, and it’s frustrating yes, but that’s how things get renewed, that’s how Aziraphale gets the arc he needs, that’s how we get happy endgame Aziracrow, that’s how you rev up anticipation for the Second Coming, THATS how you write a story.

Also, it’s not queerbait. It never has been. They’ve always been in love, not even TALKING about the kiss here but about their complete trust in each other, their inside jokes, the DANCE SCENE, Crowley comforting Aziraphale after he lied to heaven. The symbolism between them and Maggie and Nina. (Nina also being in an abusive relationship like Aziraphale with heaven and needing TIME TO PROCESS before getting with Maggie, who will wait for her is totally mirroring the arc Aziraphale needs to have btw. Abused people don’t often just fall into healthy new relationships while still being entangled in their old ones mentally). My point is that if your argument for hating the ending is this was pulling the rug out from under queer fan base, think about all the creators who shoe in a gay relationship, kiss at the last second on the shows last episode, think about all the shows where subtext had to be enough, or where showrunners weren’t brave or allowed enough to make a relationship canon until the last second. This is the MIDDLE of the show (if everything goes well with Amazon which is out of Neil’s control). This has been explicit from the creators mouth and frankly the show itself for ages, even without a kiss. This is not queerbait, and sometimes relationships need space to be able to come back together in a truly fulfilled way, even queer ones.

Anyway that’s my rant, I have more, per usual, but this post is already long

[captaindarksword]

the popularity and but team jnpr  arguments I have  seen regarding bb in fandom

I have seen people try to argue that bb being popular in the fandom means there must have been buildup or evidence for the ship ( to counter the people who point out there wasnt any hints to bb while blacksun gets years of teasing mutual attraction and development since v1 to v6 ep 1 bb at best started to be teased in v6 finale ( though nothing there was inherently romantic you could say they intended it to come off like that due to the va's (besides the hug scene ) at worst v7 where bb began to be heavily pushed in a way it felt forced.

it felt like it was being treated like it was something we can all see ( by the cast) or compared to renora which was actively teased since v1 ( bb didnt deserve that treatment it

blacksun gets the buildup bb gets the payoff

or they try to claim that

because team jnpr got together/hinted with their partners ( arkos and renora ) to form het ships that the writers are obligated to do the same thing with bb and white rose

when not really ( just like how they dont have to kill one of team rwby you cant just demand the positive things

it reminds me of the claim about jaune cutting off ravens head because ruby cut off tyrians scorpion tail and how nevermore and death stalker grimm were rwby and jnprs first team opponents where ruby cut off nevermores head deathstalker lost its tail due to team jnpr before its defeat

saying there will be lgbt characters doesnt mean that the writers have to make it the main characters

shipping in the end is about whether you would like to see the characters together if you think it would work etc

( of course there may be various reasons but in my eyes shipping or not shipping based on genders or races  involved  is the wrong reason ( this includes shipping something just because its same sex just as much as not shipping something because its same sex )m

if someone doesnt ship a same sex ship or criticize one even if its the only same sex ship in the show they shouldnt get called homophobic just for not shipping it 

genders involved shouldnt be a shield from criticism

lgbt representation shouldnt be a shield from criticism

if they built up a het ship for years and threw it away just for same sex ship a lgbt rep due to its popularity  that is a bad thing just like actual queerbaiting

if you build up a ship while giving nothing that hinted at a romantic relationship to any other character that would interfere with the ship

you should give it the pay off rather than throw it away

( I dont buy the idea that bb was planned from the start it had nothing hinting at a romantic relationship till v6 finale before then it was all platonic ( and no having some plot moments like losing the arm etc  isnt evidence) 

at that point after giving blacksun so much buildup even if they did plan for bb to become canon from the start they should have just went with blacksun given they gave nothing for bb as a romantic ship 

people try to argue that the blake and yang spent more time with each other off screen but offscreen is just that its irrelevant its the crwbys job to give us actual hints in what we see so it doesnt come out of the blue

no amount of going black the beast or yellow beauty ( bringing up those lines in the songs which have nothing to do with romance )  will change that 

no amount of going but yin and yang  or color motifs with yellow and purple being complimentary ( which blacksun also has ) will change that

[livingproofoftbd]

‼️rant‼️

all of my friends are drantis. maybe not to the degree twitter drantis are, like they don’t wish death upon him, they just dont like him. but they make a point to tell me so literally every day. they always make fun of my dteam merch (they’ve told me repeatedly to get rid of and/or burn all my hoodies and they’ll get me new ones (i honestly cant tell if they’re joking anymore)) going so far as to run away from me in fear and saying theyre gonna kick me out of their house for wearing it (it was also cuz i said i didnt like the movie Spirited Away because it traumatized me). theyve made fun of him for crying over techno, theyve called him racist for him saying his hair was an afro (i didnt know he said that) and they’re probably those people who’s say he’s a queerbaiter despite him coming out as unlabeled. 

but of course their interests are fine to talk about. i let one friend sing and dance in front of us because she loves it. i let one friend talk about pokemon and digimon and whatever else because he loves it. i let another friend talk about the bible even though im atheist because she loves it. they all post these things on their instagram stories and i dont make fun of them for it. but i post dreams posts about the drusic/drour and now theyre all telling me to get him off their screen and telling me im weird. i never mention him or george or sapnap or anyone, because i know they hate them. theyre always the ones to bring it up. my best friend even calls the dsmp “dsm-piss” which i never comment on anymore. 

i just dont understand how they can have their weird interests and thats fine, they can talk about it all the time, that’s fine. but i wear one hoodie and suddenly im weird and “by the way dreams a gr00mer.” like i get they hate him. i cant change that. but why do you have to make it my problem?? the other day they started making fun of him and me for liking him and i asked if they could hate on him when i wasnt there because it made me feel bad and they brushed me off because its my fault i like his content. i know realistically i could friend-dump them for being this bitchy to me but i cant do that over a minecraft youtuber. theyre my best friends and i love them but i just wish they would shut up and let me enjoy what i enjoy. it’s ridiculous. 

i threatened to leave today and they kept going, even roping in another friend who was with us at the time. i didn’t leave, though i really should have, but when i did eventually go they told me just to “think about” leaving the fandom just because they dont like it. i would never ask them to stop doing something they love, even if i hated it. because thats their interest and i cant control it. but here they are, telling me theyre holding an intervention and telling me i “keep getting sick because thats what the point of the mask is” (idfk). and it keeps happening. like they went from pretending to be homophobic (were all queer af its just smth we do) to telling me i have a problem and dsmp is affecting everything from my grades to my mental and physical health. im gonna start talking back, but still, this is just getting dumb. im not gonna drop my fandom just because they want me to. whatever. 

sorry for ranting. just wanted to get that off my chest. 

[pyreshe]

love netflix, love how they'll be like "yeah this show was beloved by fans and critics. we are going to cancel it after a single season, leaving it forever on a cliff hanger 😊" and then "anyway, who wants ANOTHER season of e.mily in p.aris?"

[avianurges]

at all times i am >:( thinking about the very specific fandom reaction to Stiles and how he was a queerbaited character

[slutdge]

wait judas, do you actually believe that queerbaiting isn't real? (this sounds so accusatory hghgfhh, i'm not disagreeing or trying to start a fight, i'm just curious about your point of view and i like hearing your opinions on things)

Its not that I think its not real, I kind of just have no sympathy for it anymore, like queerbaiting has a long history and I think a lot of these people that cry queerbait dont really know what it is, but in the year 2022 you can choose to seek out books and movies and shows made by actual gay people with actual gay characters but they just. Won't. They keep holding out hope that marvel and netflix and disney are gonna give them rep and thats kinda on them, so I dont think queerbaiting isnt real but I do think it is a choice at this point, you can just like. Choose not to be queerbaited by seeking out actual queer media, but they dont so I have zero sympathy for it anymore. Also a lot of the time when ppl cry queerbaiting its not even genuine intentional queerbaiting, they just liked the character and projected onto them and then got mad when it wasnt canon. The term feels like it has lost all meaning from being misused so much.

[mineonmain]

NOT ME the Series - A Retrospective

Hate to be a Debbie downer bc I know so many people are attached to Not Me (me included), but there’s some loose threads in the show that I think desperately needed tying up, that I feel the need to address. (SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY) Buckle up y’all, this is gonna be MAD long:

Gramblack. Ok what the actual fuck was that. So they didn’t have to make everyone gay, and yes there are signs to Gram being queer if not explicit, but this wasnt queerbaiting, this was just straight up relationship baiting!! A good chunk of the first half of the show was White considering Gram, whether he was friend or foe, taking into account their relationship at uni and in the gang. Everyone was like ‘black and gram so close!!’ Forget the Eugene plot point (which I happily will, Film I’m so sorry honey they dragged you thru this), even without a romantic subtext they were friends?? After Black comes back the only interaction they have is when fighting over Eugene?? Everything they’ve established about Gram, and frankly everyone in the gang is that above all they are ride or die for their friends. Would Gram really value a girl, and not just a girl but a girl who is his best friend’s ex, someone still hung over her ex, and who frankly isn’t really interested in him, over his best friend??? They didn’t get the reunion they (or we) deserved, and honestly somewhere in the show Gram’s entire personality became ‘Eugene-chaser’, like he was purely incidental to the gang, the activism, the friendships, just a pawn in Sean/Todd/Tawi’s games. Maybe it came down to the fact that there were too many storylines to keep track of. It’s impossible to have almost 12 characters with their backstories and developments, and try to develop not only their individual stories and relationships but also progress the plot and conflict. Rough stuff, you get some at the risk of giving up the other, but at the end of the day everything feels incomplete.

The Twins' parents. We got them in the flashbacks, we got White's dad in a couple of eps in the beginning of his double life, and we got that epic scene with Black's mom. We know that they're both estranged with their mom, so it's understandable why we never see her again, altho it might have been cool to maybe see her motivations? Maybe she was tied up with Tawi, or the crazy top cop who threatened Dan in EP13? It just felt so random and disconnected. Especially since she knows her kids, it would've added an extra element of personal danger for the gang if she worked for Tawi. Also, what happens to White and his dad once White is fully integrated in the gang as Black, waaaay before his reveal?? At that point he's not living a double life, it's just a single life? Doesn't his dad wonder where he's staying?? His son has just come back from Russia and he's fucked off to god knows where and he just doesn't care? He's clearly not doing the diplomacy thing, what's happened to that? None of us are toddlers, we all have object permanence, it's not like the moment we stop seeing White's original lifestyle that it doesn't exist anymore?? And now that Black is back, who goes to uni and studies what? Like, just what?????

Tawi. He was supposed to be the big baddie of the show, symbolic of the corrupt Big Corporation, Big Industry, Big Monopoly/Oligopoly, but other than him being bad and us being told that constantly, we know nothing about Tawi. He had no agency, and was pretty 2D as a character. For some reason, Namo seemed to have weight to her character in a way that Eugene just didn't, like Eugene's every move orbited around some guy (Bechdel who), so honestly after the whole Black/Eugene break up, if they just left her alone and maybe focused on developing Tawi's story and relationship to the gang a bit more, I think that could have been cool. Everything about Tawi as a character, not as a symbolic archetype, just seemed so ambiguous. What were his intentions, did he do the things he denied doing or not, how much did he know about the gang and cop Dan, how personally involved was he with the dealings of his company, who was the person higher up he was talking to in the last episode? While he's one of the top men, he's also clearly not the one right at the top. Was it the cop threatening Dan? Todd had a better backstory and development than Tawi, and Tawi was the actual villain; Todd and Black were just equal and opposite antiheros.

Black. Honestly I think the show did my boy Black the dirtiest, especially at the end. He deserved, if not a happy ending, a hopeful one. I don't understand this idea of White having usurped Black's spot in the gang, because the fact of the matter is that they have different skills and could have different roles to play in the group. White talks about Black having sacrificed his role in the group for White, but White sacrificed his whole life for Black!! White has his boyfriend and all his friends around him, what does Black have? His methods weren't the greatest, i'll admit, (altho him putting Todd into a coma was one of the funniest things he could've done, my rage-filled gremlin child), but his intentions were some of the strongest in the group. Just because he isn't as burdened down by feelings as the others, doesn't mean he doesn't have them?? Justice for my boy Black!!

The Ending. Now, don't get me wrong, some parts of the finale were so cathartic and honestly beautiful. The scene where they are rescued from the van, and they realise that in a way they've won, because they don't have to fight from the shadows and alone anymore, something something poetic cinema. The combined relief, joy, shock, bursting out of chest feelings, it was everything. But it felt like too ambiguous of an end. In a way it makes sense, because they didn't actually achieve the tangible thing except for rallying the people to be vocal about their cause and about protesting for social justice, implying that the fight still lives on. However, I think we needed to see some kind of consequence. Todd got his consequence, and we got to see Gumpa (dedicating himself to the future fights for justice) and DanYok (establishing their new status quo) in the new order. I guess I needed to see what happens to Tawi, and also a different closure for SeanWhite. They've both been fighting for so long, especially Sean, that after all the momentum of the first 13 eps, the last one for them (esp 4/4) just falls a bit flat. Ofc they needed to take a moment for themselves, away from the cloud of vigilante activism hanging over their heads constantly, but for me SeanWhite aren't 'still' people. They need movement, they need activity, they need action. It would've suited them better to maybe end the series by showing them back in the garage, planning the next activity, or even outside the garage with other protesters fully in the open public. So much of SeanWhite was centered around them revolving around each other, that once they found each other and effectively stopped moving, it almost felt a bit static.

White's characterisation. This is only for the last few episodes of White, once Black wakes up and White is allowed to be White again. While White has changed his mentality on his priorities after joining the gang, it's like the moment he stops pretending to be Black he loses all of his strength. And I don't only mean physical strength, although that is partially it - he just turns into Sean's personal limpet. And that's all great and fine for Sean, Sean who has had no one truly on his side until White, but I had really felt like White had shaken off some of his 'damsel-in-distress' behavior from his childhood, except he reverts right back to that the moment everyone knows he's White. It's in even greater contrast to Black when we see them together, but after pretending to be Black for so long, I would have expected him to have imbibed some of those behaviors (Sean shouldn't have had to 'take care of him', because frankly White should've been able to take care of himself by that point).

The jumps. 👀

Conclusion: too much. I think a lot of what bothered me is the same thing that bothered me in WHY R U? - there was too much going on. When I saw WHY R U?, I (and I would hazard a guess a good majority of the watchers) could only focus on the two main pairings (Fighter/Tutor, Saifah/Zon). There were probably at least 3 other side pairings that I can't barely remember because frankly it was too much to keep up with. WRU was too much unnecessary romance, and Not Me was almost too much plot. In just 14 episodes, we had to cover the following: The gang's main activities and training, Sean's backstory with Tawi, White's subterfuge and hiding that, White's investigation for Black and his relationship with Todd, Gram's backstory with Black and Eugene, Dan and Yok's romance, White's relationship with his father, the general debates on politics and lawfulness and justice and queer rights in contemporary Thailand, Black's relationship with a variety of people, Dan and his battle between law and his heart, Sean and White's romance. Anyone else think it's a lot? Yeah, it's a lot. Even just by cutting down on one or two of these plot points, it would've been easier to properly focus on and flesh out the rest of the issues, satisfactorily investigating and concluding them.

P.S. None of this is against P'Nuchy, or Off, Gun, First, Fluke, Papang, Mond, Film, or any of the team in the show. A lot of these decisions may have been entirely out of their hands, or were simply a result of how things turned out, without more time or a larger budget to fix things. The only reason I criticise the show this deeply is because I cared about it that much - I think it had so much potential, and lived up to almost all of it, but missed a mark on just a couple things. I am proud of the message that the show put forth, proud of the actors for their physical and emotional commitment to their characters and the story (hello?? oscar for Gun ATP now thank you very much), and proud of the work that the entire cast and crew put in to create this groundbreaking raw political drama, that had romance but was also heartbreakingly real, and important and relevant. A step in the right direction for raising awareness and fighting for social justice and equality, justice for the common man and for queer rights.

And before anyone says that the romance aspect of the show was 'unrealistic' - far from it!! Romance and love is hope, and hope isn't just something that exists, it's something that we have to actively critically manifest and cultivate. Because without hope (for a better future), what are we all fighting for?

[demadogs]

Honestly I would have no byler doubt at all if it wasn’t for the damn monologue. I know it’s been analyzed to death on why it wasn’t completely genuine and it does make sense but then I start to think why the duffers would even do the monologue in the first place if they were going to breakup marijuana next season. I keep thinking of when they hyped it up before vol 2 came out and said it’s Finn’s best performance. It’s driving me crazy because the way it was set up with using Will’s feelings for Mike to even be able to tell El he loves her means they really fucked up if it isn’t actually a setup for byler to happen next season. If they really just used Will’s love for Mike as something to get McNugget back together I’ll be so upset. :(

i understand your thought process and i did completely agree with you at one point but i think ive grown to actually appreciate the purpose of this monologue. i do however still think el should have broken up with him this season for sure.

to answer what the point of it was if theyre just gonna break up anyway, i think it was entirely for el’s arc. for her to realize that she’s finally heard those words she needed to hear but it didnt change anything. she still wasnt happy. we see that based on the fact that they share zero dialogue and barely acknowledge each other after that scene. youd expect her to hug and kiss him and say she loves him too but she didnt. i dont think she believed it because the only other time he said he loved her was also a tense life or death situation. he cant say it just casually.

also just the ratio of byler to mlvn evidence just points so aggressively towards byler that even on july 1st i wasnt even thinking “we got queerbaited :(“ i was just astronomically confused because the way they set up volume 1 it completely looked like mlvn was bones ESPECIALLY considering it wasnt just “look!! byler!!” it was also “look at all of mlvns problems!!”. and that couldnt have been queerbait because THEY DIDNT KNOW ITD BE IN TWO PARTS!!!!!!!!! so its not like they were like “ok lets build up byler and gain an audience for a month and then redeem mlvn”. they didnt know they would be doing that when they were still in production.

in just volume one we got (and these are just the biggies not everything) a very shitty “im not gay” bro tap instead of a hug after not seeing his best friend for months, el lying to him about being so happy and having so many friends in lenora because shes insecure about their relationship, mike being so fake too by avoiding eye contact with her and not seeming that engaged in whats going on the way she is, ignoring will but then listing off all these things he noticed, INSISTING that theyre just friends even tho will didnt even imply that he meant anything romantic, a track called IN THE CLOSET playing when MIKE SPEAKS, mike and els fight and el crying because he never says he loves her and he kinda gaslights her and turns it back around to the bullies and mouth breathers, “its hawkins its not the same without you”, the tripple take. theres literally so much.

ALLLLL that doesnt get erased just from one scene. and again, it wasnt initially intended to be in two parts so no, their thought process could not have been queerbaiting for why there was so much byler in volume one and not two.

i understand why the duffers said this was finns best performance. this would probably be an incredibly difficult thing to act out. its not just a love confession, its a love confession that he doesnt mean. but the audience doesnt know that. it couldnt be so obvious that EVERYONE immediately picks up on it being fake buts its still gotta be a little suspicious. he needed to put just the right amount of emotion so people may like it but also start to question it.

also his micro expressions are really good. this is not the face of someone about to tell the love of his life his feelings. its someone whos about to do something he doesnt want to do.

i honestly really hope next week we get the script for this scene. even if it doesnt give insight to mikes feelings, seeing el’s pov would also be really interesting. plz vote for it if its an option.

[spnshameblog]

I HAVE to be fascinated by this, otherwise i would just be sad and angry. This was an absolutely unique opportunity. They could have washed themselves clean of All queerbaiting accusations if theyd just said they were planning the slow burn the entire time. We wouldnt have believed it, but the public eye would have absolved them. They could have spun this into a progressive thing, make it about gay repression or something.

It trended over the fucking election, that means everyone checking Twitter during that time was at least confronted with the term 'destiel', even if they hadnt known about it already. It continued to trend several more times and they just.... did nothing with it????

This is incomprehensible to me, you could have had all these obsessed gay people eating out of your hands if youd just... leaned into it. At that point its literally harder not to do it, they would just have had to do the bare minimum, but that was apparently still too much.

So why? You have to be incredibly stupid or live in a cave to not have seen what an enormous impact the confession had, i dont buy that at all. They definitely knew what they had and what a huge financial opportunity it was. And they just said no. Why??? Why act against your financial best interest? Do they honestly still think the ultra conservatives (who are somehow ok w a bisexual evil god but not a bi lead) are their best bet? Are they just THAT homophobic? But then why air the confession in the first place? Were they that reluctant to play into the "demands" of their young/queer/mostly female Fans or misha? Are they THAT petty??? Did a cw executive have 2nd thoughts in the 11th hour and forced them to cut/rewrite? But then why do they say that things like the confession or deans death were planned from the beginning of the season?

I dont know what it was, probably a mix of All with a good bit of lies sprinkled in.

My only hope is that whoever was responsible is still screaming into their pillow bc they bet on the wrong horse. But seeing the narrative theyre still trying to feed us about how this ending was apparently the most satisfactory (it wasnt. It demonstrably wasnt) i think they have their heads too far up their asses to look at this objectively and maybe learn from their mistakes. Which is super frustrating.

[mlchaelwheeler]

WHY did david and finn giggle about will having a crush on mike? - queerbaiting

WHY did noah tell us that byler is being built up so we should ship it? - its going to happen in season 5, mike is still el's boyfriend 🤷🏻‍♀️

WHY did the duffers say that they'd address will's sexuality and then completely dropped his arc in vol 2? at this point everyone in the audience noticed he is gay

WHY was the most traumatized character ignored all season when the villain specifically targets trauma? he wasnt in hawkins

1. yes, unfortunately

2. i will continue to be delusional until s5 🤪

3. they still didn't "confirm" will's sexuality, they just used ambiguous scenes to hint at his love for mike (even though it's obvious to all of us, it's probably not to the general audience)

4. he should've been! will has consistently been shown to be highly traumatized each season yet when the villain is going after people with major trauma, will is conveniently "out of range" so he can be sidelined to the plot again 🧍🏼‍♂️

[thewickerking]

forgot why i avoid the rwde tag... like i wanted to get other opinions from ppl critiquing rwby bc i do it myself all day long and can surely miss some things and its good to keep ur mind open etc etc.

but somebody said smn along the lines of "if rwby had come out five years earlier i wouldnt claim its as homophobic as it is" (???? awful start) "but rwby came out in 2013. you know what else started airing in 2013?? Steven universe. korrasami become canon in 2014. Something about garnet in 2015. rwby has no excuse" LIKE WHAT.... yall gay marriage wasnt even legalized in the us like....

im not defending the homophobia of cast and crew members behind rwby and whatnot but theres very little homophobia in the actual show (i am not talking about promotional material or queerbait type discussions i just mean the actual show by itself) like theres not nothing, like jaunes man in a dress thing in volume 2 wasnt great and there couldve been a much better introduction of ilia and reveal of her being a lesbian (but ultimately shes like. a misguided teen who makes mistakes and changes for the better in like. a single season) and im sure some other tidbits im missing but like.

rwby isnt super homophobic ??? and saying its only bad cause it came out at the same time as steven universe but wouldve been ok if it was older is so??? bizarre???? like steven universe discourse aside (pls do not send me asks about steven universe) like. steven universe got censored and cut short for being as explicitly gay as it was. hell the owl house is having the same thing done to it right now, several years later.

anyways ive got a long list of issues with rwby i will recite at the slightest inclination someone wants to hear it, but homophobia isnt an issue i have WITH THE SOURCE MATERIAL, EXTERNAL MATTERS ASIDE (thats a whole other can of worms) and its such a footnote compared to other issues

oh also i scrolled a few posts down after quitting reading that post and they wrre having a conversation about someone on twitter posting an image of harley quinn and poison ivy with an editted image of crackers next to them and they said the tweet was ignorant bc of harley being jewish and implied the only reason harley quinn is pale is bc of the toxic chemicals she jumped in like..... shes literally blonde with blue eyes like yes shes jewish but shes still white and jewish people arent a different race.... why would you act like they are and frame it as progressive like. you do realize not considering factually white jewish as white is like. beginners antisemitism talking point..... like im not jewish so please let me know if im overstepping but harley quinn is white and i dont think someone calling her a cracker is suddenly antisemitic (if you disagree i am completely open to listening)