#it was NOT due to it being queerbaiting

[evviejo]

repeat after me: queerbaiting is a marketing strategy. queerbaiting is a marketing strategy. queerbaiting is a marketing strategy. queerbaiting is a marketing strategy. QUEERBAITING IS A MARKETING STRATEGY. QUEERBAITING IS A MARKETING STRATEGY. QUEERBAITING IS A MARKETING STRATEGY.

[rawliverandgoronspice]

Also. The whole "evil bisexualization" of/surrounding Ganondorf, coupled to the weird treatment of Sidon and the baffling arranged marriage subplot is.... yeah. I don't know.

[gh-0-stcup]

My thing is that I just do not trust a single person who was involved in the show. It just seems like a lot of PR to fix their image and foster sympathy/goodwill/interest.

[currentlyonstandbi]

[aznisure]

idol au where light chokes on a fly on live television and L is the cameraman who films every second of it. also they keep crossing paths on music shows for some reason

day 7 / au ! some au details under cut

- L doesnt actually go out of his way to film light during this miserable ordeal.he simply doesnt care about light’s reputation enough to stop rolling and forgets about it the next day. a week later light sees him at mcountdown

- yes lights stage name is kira

- light presents as the perfect idol: single, kind, hardworking, rags to riches story, humble yet confident, just gay enough to queerbait but not face homophobic backlash, passionate, creative etc., when the cameras are off hes basically canon light minus the murder

- light is an all rounder and tenor. he also plays tennis in his free time. he is japanese and has been scouted off the streets. he is a kpop idol and the au takes place in korea. he is a solo idol and has never been in a group before. l is still british and misa is still japanese.

- he writes his own songs. his ego doesnt let him indulge in ghostwriters

-manager ryuk owns a ridiculous amount of chrome hearts simply impossible to buy on a managers salary. light is deeply suspicious and mildly wary of him at all times. ryuk also knows lights real personality and finds it amusing. he takes joy in a gigantic pr scandal which light will inevitably become one day

- rem dreses the way she does without looking misplaced because its in line with misas gothic/harajuku brand. ryuk looks wildly out of place next to light but noone seems to make him change. light tried, very persistently. but even light yagami has to admit defeat sometimes

- light debuted at 17 and is now 22. L is 29

- L works at all things live television and sometimes variety shows. he mainly works for idols. the media company hes signed under works with lights company. light doesnt know this until he violently cyber stalks L after the fly debacle

- they have actually been working together for 3 years without knowing each other and L has filmed light quite often due to him being the companys most popular male idol. light of course never noticed and only sort of recalls now

- L has always found light fascinating because the persona he wears is accepted to be very genuine by the general public. L always thought it was total bullshit, a masterful imitation of a real person.

- light never yells at anyone in public ever. not to misa even though he wants to rip her from his side on the thousand talk shows they go on. not to ryuk when he critiques every aspect of every bit of lights stages. not to his previous managers even though they were wildly incompetent and pissed light off daily. his reputation is everything to him. so when he yells at L in the middle of everyone at the backstage of mcountdown its a bit of a spectacle. thats the first crack L sees in lights shell and he wants to see more

- afterwards is a public apology and bullshit story about grief and a dead relative and misdirection of feelings and the game begins. L gets himself booked on as many as Lights jobs as possible with only one aim. to capture a crack in koreas sweethearts perfect persona on camera

- L doesnt do it because hes a truth chaser or whatever he simply enjoys watching light crack. and to have him crack on love tv would be to Win. light catches onto the game very quickly

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for talking about the whole Taylor Swift "queerbaiting" thing. I am not a Swiftie by a long shot, and only learned about "gaylors" a few months ago. But I grew up with people insisting that I had to have crushes/find people hot. Regardless of what I said. It's really nice to see someone push back against that rhetoric that was so harmful to me and many others. It may seem small or not that big a deal, but it's genuinely huge to me to see those posts.

I'm glad it's meaningful to you but in the name of not taking credit where credit isn't due I want to specify that my objection isn't really to the idea of people shipping Taylor with her friends; I think it's very cringe, don't get me wrong, and extremely misguided given the sheer levels of heterosexuality that Taylor exudes, but I mind my business about people writing RPF every day because it doesn't affect me literally at all.

my issue is more with pretty extreme conspiracy thought being normalized among young queer people as just a fun silly little harmless thing to do, when the tactics used by Gaylors - thought terminating cliches, inventing significance and symbolism in meaningless imagery, encouraging people to doubt and disregard direct statements in favor of a "real" truth that only they can understand - is indistinguishable from qanon and other cult shit. which isn't to say that I think Gaylor as a idea is equally as bad as qanon, obviously, but conspiracy thought begets more conspiracy thought - there's a reason for the rather short pipeline from "spiritual healing" woowoo shit to antivaxxers to the far right. that's my beef here.

[yangscowlick]

Because the “shrodinger’s queerbait” nonsense will never go away, indulge me an analogy (and a long post).

wlw ships are the “made from scratch” cake in a world where we only ever expect cake mix from the box.

Say you have a show where, in the first interaction between a male and female character, there is a red box. It could be a Betty Crocker box of cake mix. Because all it takes is just one smile — one wink — one raised eyebrow— and the fans don’t question it. We’re clearly making a cake here. The box is red.

Meanwhile, you have two female characters building their own relationship that have elements that could build to romance. There are eggs in the fridge. A few more episodes, there’s flour in the pantry. Sugar. Baking powder. Queer fans start whispering…we could be making a cake here. Other fans scoff “you will read into anything. They’re just eggs! Everyone has eggs in their fridge!” Maybe so, maybe not. They are written off as discrete ingredients, nothing to see here.

That red box is still sitting in the pantry. Obviously we’re going with that one, and it’s definitely cake mix. That guy and girl stood next to each other again.

The wlw relationship is now full-on batter. It was a cake recipe all along, but it’s not baked yet. The crowd that wrote off every ingredient is now saying the writers are just going to “squander” that box that could be ready-made cake mix or that they’re being “forced” to bake a cake with the very ingredients the writers deliberately bought and put in their pantry.

Now it’s in the oven, the cake is baking. That crowd will still insist it’s forced, or maybe its actually something else, or it’s rushed, or it’s pandering. Whether the writers painstakingly built a pantry to make the cake they truly wanted or they were cultivating good ingredients and realized they had the fixings for a more decadent cake and went there, it doesn’t matter. It’s still a recipe. One that fans who always have to piece together ingredients had hoped for or saw from the get-go, despite being scoffed at and disparaged. Just because that crowd didn’t see (or refused to see) those ingredients as part of a whole, doesn’t make it any less of a recipe.

And wlw fans shouldn’t have to keep writing essays to demonstrate that the wlw “cake” has all the ingredients every cake mix does, or keep pointing out that fans were ready to believe a cake was being baked when they saw a nondescript box, but that they’ll do anything to discredit or doubt the cake from scratch that’s now cooling off on the counter.

It is partly a function of heteronormativity from the audience in immediately seeing romance in any whisper of interaction between m/f characters and passing off all charged interactions between female characters are sisterly or platonic. And it also comes from writers, who are either being cautious so as not to spook corporate overlords or audiences, or who are preserving plausible deniability.

To take the analogy further, box cake mix is fine! It works! It is, practically speaking, what a lot of folks know by default. I thought I was a Duncan Hines girl once myself. Vanilla cake mix has the ingredients measured out, it’s a safe bet, it tastes like cake.

But it doesn’t mean every red box is cake mix. And it doesn’t make the cake that had to be pieced together from scratch due to censorship, caution, time, narrative build-up, what-have-you, any less of a cake.

[serpentarius]

been trying to wrap my head around the cancellation of "Our Flag Means Death" and why it hurts so fucking much. lots of folks who are much more eloquent than I have summed it up perfectly, but I still think it’s important I add my voice to the matter. 

It really, really sucks that the hurt is being compounded on us every time another queer/minority-led show gets prematurely cancelled. and for a long while, we also had to deal with the many shows that deliberately queerbaited us, which was a shitty and traumatic experience unto its own. And even though we’ve largely surpassed that early-‘00s-flavoured brand of queerbait now, mainstream queer media is still predominantly white-led. With the cancellation of OFMD, we've lost one of the very few intersectional queer shows in the mainstream. Shouldn’t we be beyond asking for crumbs at this point? Shouldn’t we get unabashedly intersectional shows helmed by and starring queer, BIPOC, and trans folks without them being axed for no rhyme or reason?

It’s exhausting at this point, honestly. OFMD has done so well in terms of viewership and engagement and fan response—almost entirely due to word of mouth and little thanks to the Max marketing team, mind you—and even still the show got cancelled? Can they make it make sense????

For me, the thing most akin to this OFMD situation was when Sense8 got cancelled. And yes, the fandom fought, and we eventually DID get a movie that wrapped things up years later! That gives me hope for OFMD, that maybe another network will pick it up, or maybe they’ll be able to make a movie someday. But what makes me sad about cases like Sense8 is knowing that the creators still had to force the narrative around the amount of time they were given. That the corporate overlords who only care about numbers and profit dictated how much time they had to wrap up their story.

And it fucking kills me that DJ only wanted one more season. One more season to complete the vision.

I'm just so mad that queer people are constantly being jerked around and used for profit and then left high and dry. And then we're given excuses like "oh there's no budget" or "oh there's not enough viewership, that's all it is". like, sure, maybe those are contributing factors, but then I look at all the useless garbage shows that have little viewership and high budgets that keep going forever and then I think "hmmmm, the math ain't mathing." It's fucking transparent; the corporations can spew all they want with their rainbow capitalism and talks about diversity, but the evidence is clear, and they can't convince me homophobia/racism/transphobia/etc. is not a factor in these decisions.

Anyways, back to OFMD. OFMD made me fall in love with fandom again. I drifted away from fandom for a while in my 20s, and while OFMD wasn't the first fandom that drew me back into the madness, it's certainly the largest. The sheer amount of creativity both within the show and outside of it has blown me away; I've read some of the best fics, seen some of the best art, and witnessed some of the most incredible creativity from people in this fandom.

And let's not forget the role of the show's creators and how they've interacted with us fans. They made us feel seen. And made us feel loved and valid, even when we were being weird and loud and horny. It's so fucking rare to see that. But they understood; understood that the show they made was for us, for any of us who've been marginalized or made to feel Othered or different or stuck in life or unsure of our identities. And they gave us so much love for it.

The story... man. The unique combination of quirky humour and bright visuals and dark, introspective moments, the gorgeous costumes and soft, lovely, unabashed queerness, and veteran actors and new actors all getting to shine, brilliant comedic actors getting to show off their dramatic chops and vice versa. For me, seeing Rhys Darby - an actor I've loved for a long time, but who I never thought I'd see in a leading role - getting to be the romantic lead in a queer role? And seeing acclaimed director/producer/screenwriter/actor Taika Waititi play opposite Rhys, as an indigenous Blackbeard? Fucking incredible. OFMD Edward Teach you will always be famous to me.

Anyways... despite my long ramblings here, I still don’t think I've been able to get to the root of WHY exactly this show has inched its way under my skin and stayed with me in the way it has. Maybe I'll spend years trying to understand it. But I DO know that it's in part to do with seeing both older queers AND a diverse range of queerness onscreen, in a way that I've never seen in media before. I DO know that OFMD has forced me to look inwardly, and allowed me to realize some important things about myself. About my own queerness, my own identity, things I'm still figuring out. I've cherished being able to see myself in Stede, in Ed, and each of the crew members. In Roach’s love for cooking, in Oluwande’s ability to mediate; in Jim’s quick temper, in the way Izzy builds walls to guard his heart. In Buttons’ quirkiness, in Wee John’s sass, in Frenchie’s ability to turn pain into humour; in The Swede’s silliness, in Lucius’ bluntness, in Pete’s soft heart beneath the skepticism. Lastly, OFMD has inspired me. To create, to write, to draw, to devour other peoples' works and worlds while I sit in sheer, overflowing joyousness at their talent.

so yeah. the news of this cancellation is upsetting and hurtful and disappointing. And it's making us cry, and it's making us grieve, and may make us hollow and numb at times because we've lost yet another thing we love so deeply before it was meant to go. It's so much more than "just a TV show". It means more to us than any passive mindless idiotic mind-numbing bullshit - because even though there's a time and a place and a purpose for that type of media, it's the thought-provoking work, the work that creators pour their entire hearts and souls into, that hit us deep in our own souls. The work that changes our lives. The work that has the ability to save lives, as I know OFMD has done for so many. 

please know I'm sending immense amounts of love and strength to those of you who are also hurting. we'll get through this, one way or another, and I'll keep up with the hope that we'll get more someday; but in the meantime, I'm holding you tight. ❤️️🫂

[ghostofanovelwriter]

I wish to god that the writers room had done a better job at establishing Benedict’s sexuality earlier on in the series because now fans have it in their heads that in order to “properly” vindicate his pansexuality (Luke confirmed this in an interview) they have to completely change the narrative of Sophie’s story and take away her autonomy as a woman so that it’ll fit into their precious mlm regency fantasies.

Making Sophie a crossdresser during or after the ball literally does nothing to advance the plot. It makes no sense that she would dress as a man to attend the ball when the entire point of her going was to fulfill her dreams of entering into society recognized as a lady rather than a bastard. She and Benedict only reunite because he saw her as a lady in need of being saved from being raped, and her refusal to be his mistress speaks on so many levels on her identity as a woman and being treated as lesser due to such that wouldn’t work if Benedict was under the impression she was a man.

I think the writing really did fuck itself over waiting this late to confirm Benedict’s sexuality since now it’ll just seem like it’s queerbaiting or retconning the entire thing during the next season. At the same time, i also think the issue lies with the fans and their inner biases not allowing them to reason that pansexual people are capable of ending up with members of the opposite sex that doesn’t invalidate their sexuality.

[sepublic]

Actually it's utterly hilarious to me how Hayley Wong, storyboard artist for The Owl House, posted one of the first pieces of Lumity art ever on this site during Season 1A; So before we even got the trailer for Grom and whatnot. And the whole time she had to clarify in the caption below that it was just fanart, that she didn't know anything about how the show would go due to being an artist and not a writer, she wasn't making any promises nor guarantees. And like you get it because you want to avoid accusations of queerbaiting and disappointing people, while also establishing limits and boundaries. Uh-huh. Just covering one's bases.

...And then Enchanting Grom Fright comes out later that year and it turns out Hayley boarded the whole scene with Amity's fear only to dance with Luz. And with how long production takes place and how far ahead of time it happens, that means she did and knew all this when she posted that Lumity fanart in early 2020. Meaning she could've just as easily NOT included that whole disclaimer and not suffered any consequences for the fairly quick payoff that happened afterwards. Utterly amazing. Like again professionalism and standards and whatnot, plus avoiding giving out spoilers by framing it as just a guess but. Legendary.

[brakingpoint]

i would say (re: the rpf tier post) that the drivers being in cars - and not only that, but largely anonymised and limited in visible emotional expression due to being covered head to toe in racesuit & helmet - does not detract from the shippability but rather adds an extremely delicious je ne sais quoi. not only is there a marked divide between their private persona (off track, outside of the paddock, at home between races), their public persona (race weekend PR appearances), and their sportsman persona (anonymised, expected to show only acceptable levels of emotion in acceptable ways), but when these start to bleed into each other it's particularly gripping. you're secretly dating your rival but as soon as the helmets come on he's a different person and he owes you nothing. you just went through a horrible breakup with your teammate but now you have to do a silly borderline queerbaiting publicity video together. your heart has been broken and you're struggling to hold it together but nobody can tell, or even dares to ask, once your humanity has been politely removed from public sight. and don't even get me started on when you bring crashes into the equation

[khruschevshoe]

Yet again making the argument that Our Good Shadows is not the new Superwholock due to the fact that all three of these shows share sincere genuine artistic motivations and connections while the "Who" of "Superwholock" NEVER EVER belonged with the other two due to its sincere queer representation and groundbreaking rep (*cough* Jack Harkness kissing the doctor in an emotional goodbye, his relationship with Ianto, ALL OF TORCHWOOD BEING BI, etc. *cough*). Only once Stephen Moffatt got his fingers on it did things change. Thus, I must argue that The Magicians or your other contemporary queerbait of choice belongs in the new trilogy for sheer symmetry of "One Of These Not Being Like The Others." In this essay I will-

[outrunningthedark]

just that the fandom is proving how they are only in it for Buck and Eddie/Ryan and Oliver when they're complaining about a deleted scene on social media or claiming "queerbait" instead of asking (not demanding, that was poor word choice by me) to hear from someone else a little more often.

I don't think it's a secret that most of the fandom is only in it for Buddie though?

Not that people don't enjoy the show otherwise or wouldn't be watching without the ship, but online fandom specifically? I don't think there'd be a fandom without Buddie. It would be a show like Station 19 or Chicago Fire maybe, good ratings, a couple of people live tweet it, and a gifset would get maybe 100-500 notes on it.

Most of the online fandom is absolutely in it for Buddie, but also Buck and Eddie as individual characters, which is why the reaction to Buck/Tommy from Eddie stans is solely due to the knowledge that Eddie could have had the arc first, and if Eddie actually did come out this season the Buck stans would be letting people know how upset they are - Buddie is preferred because both sides get what they want out of it. The issue is that many in online fandom pretends to care about the other characters to the same degree to appear "better" than the folks only here for Buddie, yet their actions prove time and time again that it's not the case. Take the disrespect towards Hen as a lesbian who's been there from the very beginning. Henren gifs aren't popping up five minutes after a scene airs just so the op can (hopefully) get the most notes. People ask for Ryan to be released from "PR jail", but where are the requests to hear from Aisha? Why don't people get routinely upset when an episode *looks like* it won't focus too heavily on Hen the way they do when they feel like Eddie is being ignored? "There are more Buck/Tommy fics than Henren fics" Okay...and the Buddie tag has always outdone Henren, so....why is a different pairing a problem now? It's their friends writing the fics anyway? And they support them when it's the endgame they like? Similarly, people claimed to care about/look forward to the Madney wedding, and somehow the discussion was never about the actual event until it happened. it was about how karaoke night could lead to a secret hookup or feelings realization or TOMMY helping fandom's faves get their shit together by "noticing" something between them. In an episode about someone else's wedding. They're here for Henren and Madney and Bathena, but what's the thing everyone's blowing up social media pages about? Buddie. Whether it's complaints over being baited with the promo (something being encouraged on this very site) or sending a barrage of Buddie tweets or comments to drown out any Buck/Tommy support...people sure aren't acting like they know how to enjoy anything that isn't Buddie. I have no problem with anybody who is only/mostly in the fandom for Buddie (I myself will always feel the most connected to the Buckley-Diaz dynamic in any form for personal reasons), or anybody who might be new to us because of Bi Buck and Buck/Tommy. Just don't lie about it to make yourself look better when all it does is highlight your hypocrisy. (I mean, unless they want us to see through them that easily. Lol.)

[thefirstlioveyou]

about queerbaiting

this is a byler doubt free post, don’t worry. i’m gonna dove into queerbaiting itself to prove why mike will be confirmed queer.

if byler isn’t canon, the ship as a whole wouldn’t be considered queerbait. however, the fact that mike would be confirmed to just see him as a good friend and is straight is considered queerbait.

byler itself is considered ship teasing due to the fact there’s confirmed feelings on one side already. ship teasing can happen with any type of ship, especially when there is a love triangle involved. ship teasing is done to grab an audience of any kind to watch the show. for example, them liking melvin comments is ship teasing as much as noah’s byler comments are.

because of the fact will byers is confirmed gay and in love with mike, the ship itself could not be qbait… that doesn’t mean the show doesn’t get away with no queerbaiting allegations though - mike wheeler by himself would have been what the queerbait was.

he is so heavily implied to be interested in will, giving will the eyes, how he speaks to him, how he treats him vs his girlfriend, how he cherishes him. outside of byler, he is also implied to not have any attraction to girls. he is the only other boy besides the canon gay boy to show distaste for girls when theyre put in a romantic/sexual light, the comments from his father, the imagery, his s4 bedroom, how he looks at el vs will, intereviews.

all this for him to be confirmed in love with a girl and not into boys in the end and that will’s just a really good friend to him, THAT’S queerbait as well as horrible writing.

however, let’s put ourselves in the shoes of producers and showrunners who do queerbait for a second…

“i want money and publicity. i also notice there’s hardly any queer content out there, i see how desperate the gays are. but.. if i dare even giving them what they want, that can lead to backlash and angry fans who drop the show, causing the viewership to go down, which can lead to the show being cancelled. but at the same time, if i give the gay part of the fanbase what they want that fanbase can grow bigger, which means a growing publicity about my show and ultimately more money for a bigger budget for another installment. but, i also don’t want to lose fans by doing this…. i have an idea! i’ll go 50/50. i’ll hint at a potiential queer characters and by the end of the show, once i got everything i wanted and needed, i’ll tell them they were just good friends or leave it up for interpretation, that way nobody drops the show and the homophobes stay happy. perhaps the gays will be mad, but i doubt they would drop the show. they’re too desperate and will take anything because there’s little to nothing for them anyway. i’m sooo smart, and a pussy!”

(sounds incredibly evil huh? it is.)

now, apply this to stranger things. there is no actual benefit they get from queerbaiting if we’ve already got two confirmed gay characters. they’re already taking the backlash they got from making will gay and from introducing robin in s3, yet… they don’t care. as they should.

think about this… why leave only ONE heavily implied gay character amongst canon ones just to debunk it afterwards to pander to homophobes, when you’ve already pissed them off with said canon gays?? there’s no sense in that. like. at ALL.

noah could’ve just said will’s sexuality was up to interpretation and left it as that. in the end, they had confirmed it later because they wanted to save the audience from spoilers. that’s the same thing happening for mike. him being queer and in love with will is a spoiler and plot twist, they’re not gonna reveal it now, even though it’s blantly obvious.. the same way it was obvious will liked mike.

these big hollywood people queerbait because they BENEFIT from it viewership-wise and ultimately fincially. if stranger things already features canon gay characters with a coming confirmed gay relationship between two girls, they get zero benefit with not falling through and not confirming mike queer, only pure backlash, nothing more or less.

never forget:

they’ve straight baited the audience once no problem, they’ll do it again if they really want to. as they should!

[nekropsii]

Also that June post sucked I wrote it on sleep meds at like 6 in the morning I articulated myself like shit. Not an excuse, but it is an explanation.

Further rambling under the cut.

I was trying to make the point that it’s deeply frustrating to me how much of a big deal was made out of it (in a negative sense) and how much harassment ensued especially right in the moment when nothing had even really happened yet and still hasn’t really happened but I said that Badly.

The JKR comparison was not a statement of there being any bigotry present, it’s just literally the only example most people - me included - can think of when talking about an author confirming some kind diversity before it even happens, if we see it at all. I’ll admit part of why I’m so cynical is that I grew up in an era where queerphobic jokes and queerbait were just about the only thing you could get in mainstream media, and everyone would still tout that as if it’s real representation, so I’m always prepared for people to just be lying to me.

So, I see that June gets confirmed in 2019 because someone won a treasure hunt, and we still haven’t really seen her, and I’m just instinctively deeply skeptical it’s even gonna happen. Especially considering we got that fuckin’ Roxy Detransition arc first.

Another sticky point is the canonicity of Postcanon, period. I do not see any works outside of Homestuck proper to be canon, especially not in the way that Homestuck itself is canon. I’ve said this several times on my blog and didn’t feel it worth reiterating but it’s kind of important, especially given the JKR comparison. I think June is awesome, it’s a really cool progression of her character, especially considering Homestuck was once pop culture and she’s the literal main character. But part of why I kept saying it was “literally nothing” was because I was operating under the mindset of “it’s not even canon anyway, why are you harassing people for being excited about it?”. It’s stupid to act like a character or person coming out as trans ruins everything for you in general, but it was especially stupid to me for this to be such a federal fucking issue when basically all we had to go off of at the time was a Tweet, especially in a fandom that proclaims itself to be so progressive, and especially when so many people who were denouncing June as being “not real” due to being in Postcanon got so excited when Roxy was turned into a trans dude. It’s just stupid and unfair and transparent, and I hate it.

The Junecourse situation was super fucking messy and really hard to navigate, and it frustrated me a lot because a lot of people were being kind of silly or even just outright bigoted. It was strange that people got so mad about it, it was strange that some people acted like June was a real person, it was strange that people got badly harassed no matter what they did or said. It was stressful and weird, and it was dumb to me that all that warring and all those lies were circling around a tweet, for the most part, and plenty are still operating under the simple tweet confirmation.

I should acknowledge that there’s apparently more than just the lone tweet now. I’m sure I’ve seen all that before, but I’ve got pretty bad memory issues and, again, I was writing it at 6 am on sleep meds, so it genuinely spaced my brain. That is completely on me and I apologize for contributing to false narratives. The post’s been deleted. I’m not asking for forgiveness or anything, I’m just explaining myself. It was a bad post, but I wasn’t making it out of malice, though I do recognize that in situations like this, intent doesn’t matter nearly as much as actions and impact does. That was a failure on my part. I’ve since deleted it.

I’m apologizing here not because there’s a fire being lit under me or anything - I’m not being pressured - but because this is a genuinely important issue to me. Sadly, I am merely an ally and still in the active process of reading theory, so I lack the general polish one acquires from lived experience and actual real learnedness. Transmisogyny is not a reality I have to live with every waking moment of my life, and as a TME man it is a systemic force that works directly in my favor, so I’m liable to accidentally perpetuate it, even if it’s something I do not believe in personally and am making strides to, for lack of a better, less cringe-inducing term, “be a better ally” about.

TLDR; I fucked up and made a sloppy post that contributed to false narratives surrounding a confirmed Transfem character and the discussion of her online. It sat around 77 notes as of deleting, though most were thankfully just likes rather than there being a whole lot of spread. Still sucks, though, and I’m sorry.

Thank you for reading.

[crystallinestars]

Wow, it’s such a relief to find people who don’t like Haikaveh either. Was really disappointed when I read Sethos’s voiceline.. I am bisexual and I think that Haikaveh (along with many other pairings) is queerbaiting and some type of fetish. I’ve made a long written analysis on why I think it is and how I think it’s offensive, simply because I find it interesting and enjoy analyzing things. Really love their duo and they’re great parallels but they fit a sibling / platonic soulmate duo better than a romantic one 🤦‍♀️ It’s getting annoying at this point and I wish Hoyoverse would stop, but it earns them attention and money so why would they? Just want to enjoy my favorite character without him being used as an accessory for another. Disappoints me that other gay people don’t notice (or care) that they are being stereotypical themselves and that Hoyoverse is basically using our sexualities for accessories and money. Haven’t looked into the translation thing with Sethos’s voiceline but if it’s true it was more neutral in CN, then that’s interesting. The same Haikaveh defenders will yap about how “CN is the original!1!1!1” but if you bring something like this translation up they lose it. Hoyoverse has never been a “gay representation” company, it’s a queer-baiting one. 🤦‍♀️ But at the same time, I don’t really even care. I’m not a gay person who cares much about my sexuality or others, but things like this are frustrating. Wish there were more people who understand my view on why I think their presentation is harmful.

- 🪷 / 🪽

Hello 🪷/🪽 Anon! (Let me know if you want to go by both emojis or just one) Welcome to our small club of not being into Haikaveh (or most Hoyoverse queer ships).

I agree with you that Kaveh and Haitham have a very sibling/platonic dynamic. In fact, their bickering reminds me a lot of my younger siblings’ bickering, so I view them as brothers, as well. It’s just unfortunate that the fandom rejects any interpretation that’s not romantic.

I also wish Mihoyo would stop, but they’re obsessed with tossing ship crumbs, and only to the most popular ships. As you said, it makes them money, so they have no reason to stop.

There is definitely some queerbaiting in Genshin, but I would say it’s not as bad as in HSR. HSR sometimes made me very uncomfortable with the fetishization of some of their ships, and I wondered if a man wrote it for a straight male audience…

Mihoyo has always had a history of wanting to include same-sex pairings in their games. Honkai Impact 3rd has a confirmed lesbian MC, and also two other female characters who canonically kiss (but due to updated laws in China, they had to remove that scene).

It doesn’t surprise me that they want to do similar things in Genshin and HSR, but they never commit to the ships. They only tease and hint at them, ala “There might be something between these characters, but also not really, but what if…?” and this is pretty much exclusive to same-sex pairings. This teasing and hinting makes the fandom so much worse to be in. Lots of other gacha games don’t do this, but for whatever reason, Mihoyo does.

I suspect some of the employees working on the game may be queer or have a huge interest in BL and GL (though it’s probably a mix of both), which is why they make all these ship crumbs. There’s nothing wrong with having queer relationships in games and other media, but the way they go about it feels… fetishizing, I guess? It doesn’t feel genuine. I can’t quite put my finger on what feels so off about this. You would know about this far more than me since you analyzed this already, so if you have interpretations you want to add, I’ll gladly hear you out.

It sucks because they market their games as being for all audiences, but then do things with a heavy bias for certain ships. It makes it so difficult to enjoy characters the way you want when the developer and fandom constantly shove in your face that your favorite character has an implied relationship or some other such thing.

Regarding the Sethos voiceline… my friend in China, who also dislikes Haikaveh, complained to me about it the other day. She said the original Chinese text felt like it was implying something between Kaveh and Haitham. Of course, that is just her personal interpretation, and some people don’t see a deeper meaning behind the words. However, it goes to show that even the Chinese audience can tell something is up with the voiceline, so it might not be as neutral as we hoped.

I’m all for more media having queer rep, but Mihoyo doesn’t do it right. I really wish I could just play their games without having ship teasing slapped in my face, but alas, they won’t ever change. At this point, it’s better to not play any of their games (though maybe Tears of Themis can stay) and ditch the fandoms for your peace of mind.