#independent voting

[afloofybat]

thoughts on third party voting

Recently I saw a post on Instagram that made me very mad. It was advocating for voting for a third party candidate in the upcoming American 2024 presidential election because “Harris is still a cop,” “both [Harris and Trump] are h*tlers,” and so on. It took me a while to think through why I was so angry, but I think I have some words for it now. 

First off, the United States currently has a two-party system where the winner takes all. For a third party candidate to win, they would have to overcome both the Democratic and Republican parties with popularity and votes. The US does not currently have a good system for voting. We do not get election days off, voting is not compulsory, we do not have ranked voting (see ref 1), and a lot of people are not interested in voting. A single third party candidate would need to build an incredibly powerful coalition, built over more time than 3 ½ months, to realistically have a chance at winning, and none of the current third party candidates do. In fact, this original poster listed three different third party candidates, including Jill Stein and Cornel West, running right now and said to just pick your favorite. The lack of support for a single one in this post illustrates the complete lack of a coalition that could take on the two major parties and win. 

Secondly, even if there is a miracle and a third party candidate wins the presidency, they must have a Congress that will support their initiatives, and, right now, the House of Representatives has 212 Democrats, 220 Republicans, 3 vacancies, and 0 Independents (see ref 2). The Senate currently has 47 Democrats, 49 Republicans, and 4 Independents (see ref 3). Hopefully, the third party candidate’s coalition would have inspired a lot of people to run as third parties for Congress so that the new president would have enough support to pass any legislation. Otherwise, they would be stuck with very limited power to affect change. 

Thirdly, I’m beyond frustrated with the seemingly lack of understanding of the US President’s power; there is no one person who will be able to fix everything, especially in 4 or 8 years. They have to be able to work with a lot of people to get even some changes passed. That is largely what politics boils down to. If you want a third party candidate or many third party candidates to have a chance, then you need to start thinking ahead now for the 2028 Presidential election and beyond. You need to vote in every single election you can, from local to national. You need to campaign for them and for policies that would allow for a multi-party system in the US and other policies you want and get millions of other people to vote with you. Otherwise, your vote for a third party or no vote at all helps one of the two main candidates. If you want that to change, then work needs to be done over time, not less than 3 ½ months from the election.

I have seen arguments that it should not matter whether you win or not, that you personally win by exercising your right to vote for whomever you want. I find that argument incredibly short-sighted and completely callous to the needs of other people. I am absolutely an advocate for balancing your needs with others’ needs, but to not consider the broader picture of how advocating for voting third party when they do not have the infrastructure in place to support them is grossly irresponsible. 

There are real and valid criticisms against Harris. One of the most serious ones is that she comes from an administration that supports Israel in its unconscionable genocide of the Palestinian people through sending weapons and not taking a stronger stance against the genocide and mass cruelty. But it is a grave mistake to ignore everything else and the broader picture, including the many good initiatives that she stands for, such as restoring Roe vs Wade in legislation, calling for police reforms after the murder of Sonya Massey (see ref 4), and more. Unfortunately, we as individuals cannot pick a single person who embodies all that we want in a leader. We can pick the leader who will get us closer to where we want to be as a nation and then continue to move in that direction the best we can, while also continuing our own efforts to support the causes that we believe in. I will include a list of groups and activists who are fighting to free Palestine at the end of this post. 

Another argument that presented itself in the comments of the original Instagram post was that we should “REVOLT” and “BURN IT DOWN AND START OVER.” I get incredibly angry when I see calls to “burn it all down and start over.” It is cruel to the world around us. Sure, you can delete a draft or toss out a drawing, but it doesn’t work that way with people or the world at large. The scars left behind run terribly deep. I’m so tired of people who are calling for fighting and revolution when revolution and war destroys so many things for generations. I grew up listening to stories about my grandparents who lived behind the Iron Curtain during World War II and who were exiled to Siberia and imprisoned. I read so much bloody history, from all the warfare around the world, the rampant destruction of so many Native cultures, the Nanjing Massacre, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the French Revolution, and beyond. I do not wish that on anyone, especially if it can be avoided by voting and participating in our current system to try to make it better and to help it heal. Revolution should be a last resort, and we don’t need that now. What we need is for people to vote, to hope, and to believe that we can move in a better direction without burning everything to the ground. 

I don’t know the original poster’s life. I don’t know what they face, but what they expressed in this post showed me a combination of disinterest to affect meaningful change and dogmatism to a grave fault, and for my life I cannot see how it helps anyone. In this system, we have to poke it and correct it along until it heads where we want to go, even though it often means that we vote for someone that we don’t 100% agree with. I want a multi-party system in the US. Many other countries, such as Australia, France, and New Zealand, have their governments allocated by representative percentages, which I think is far more effective for the actual population’s needs. There is a lot we, as Americans, could do to make our system better. But pretending that “everyone just needs to vote for a third party candidate” when almost no one knows their names and will not remember them after the election is not understanding how to affect actual change. 

Is Harris perfect? No. No one is, and no one can or should be. But she’s a hell of a lot better than Trump and his cronies and broligarchs. But it’s not just fear that motivates my choice. Kamala Harris is the means to get us closer to a better world this time around, and she has a real, meaningful shot to do it. That’s why I’m voting for her. 

List of individuals and groups that advocate for the Palestinian People:

Rashida Tlaib, Palestinian American Congresswoman: https://tlaib.house.gov/ 

Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières: https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/ 

US Campaign for Palestinian Rights: https://uscpr.org/ 

AJP Action: Lobbying for Palestinian Rights: https://ajpaction.org/passionate-advocates-for-justice-its-your-time-to-advocate-for-palestine-in-congress/ 

Jewish Voice for Peace: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ 

References:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting

https://pressgallery.house.gov/member-data/party-breakdown 

https://www.senate.gov/history/partydiv.htm (all the way at the bottom has the current 118th Congress statistics)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/23/kamala-harris-sonya-massey-killing-police-reform 

[justawanderer]

Listen

Is Kamala the greatest option we have ever had?

No.

Is the Democratic Party a bastion of change and hope?

No.

Are they a better alternative to a literal Tyrannical Evangelical Christian State?

HELL YES. Why the fuck would ask that? We can vote to split into multiple parties later we have to get rid of this heritage foundation think pot Now.

VOTE for Kamala

VOTE for the Dems in your local and state elections

VOTE blue

You do not have to be registered Dem, just stop the orange felon from getting into office.

[fafefae]

the american voting system is NOT EQUIPPED to support a 3rd party without ranked choice voting. and until we get RCV, it's one or the other. and it WILL be one or the other.

a lot of 3rd party candidates sound great, but they do not have a realistic chance at winning. be realistic. you know who does have a chance at winning? the household names, trump or harris.

splitting the vote by going 3rd party is what made trump happen in 2016, it was hillary clinton's downfall. it was USED by state sponsored internet trolls to spread propaganda, destabilize and divide the left. it was endorsed by trump himself, he tried it in 2020 too, and he's doing it again now because he knows it might be the only chance he has at winning.

be VERY wary of anyone telling you vote 3rd party. it's trump or harris. it won't be stein, de la cruz, or sherman, or fucking anybody else ive never heard of, because nobody is talking about independent candidates, and EVERYONE is talking about trump and harris.

it will be trump or harris for president, and it will be trump if you vote 3rd party. and ill tell you as an anarchist, i would rather have kamala harris and all her flaws in office over the fascist donald trump who would see me and my queer siblings and my friends and family of color dead.

do not split the fucking vote.

[thoughtportal]

Scotland and the UK

[myvoteismyvoice]

[vaguely-concerned]

the fact that irving canonically survives through the end of asunder to be at wynne's funeral is so fucking funny to me. nothing but love and respect for MY unstoppable cockroach morally grey machiavellian mage dad!!! he's survived in his position through multiple attempted rites of annulment and blood mage plots popping up left right and center around him. the chantry keeps trying to stamp him out but his dodge game is simply out of this world, divine. civil wars, political machinations and minefields, chantry atrocities, this wily old motherfucker is dodging and weaving his way through it all, not-quite-no-hits-taken-running-it-but-honestly-close-enough-under-the-circumstances style. if solas does succeed in tearing down the veil I would fully believe that one of the like three people still alive at the end of it all would be a very weary 90 year old first enchanter irving going 'oh this shit again huh'. the maker has cursed him for his hubris and his paperwork is never finished (affectionate, it's fine he canonically loves paperwork)

[dhaaruni]

WE'RE NOT GOING BACK

[unrelaxing]

From a country where voting is not a choice, but a duty, it's interesting seeing American discourse every four years on whether or not voting matters. This year there's an added layer, because Joe Biden has been supporting Israel's genocide against Palestine. Now there's a pervading sentiment - both in and out of the US - that voting for Joe Biden supports Palestinian genocide, and it's an American's moral duty to withhold their vote in support of Palestine.

I guess the question I ask is: how is withholding your vote effective activism?

If you don't vote, and Trump wins, he says he will deport pro-Palestine demonstrators. He says he supports Israel's right to defend itself. If you vote independent, and Trump wins the same thing happens.

If Biden wins, he will continue his support of Israel.

So: Is voting really the battleground for the Palestinian genocide, when either outcome leads down the same road?

And what other battles are being fought in this presidential race?

Gun laws - Biden passed "the most significant gun safety legislation in more than two decades", the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. It includes enhanced background checks for gun purchasers, and prohibits individuals convicted of domestic violence towards a romantic partner from purchasing a gun (wherein the past a 'boyfriend loophole' had existed, wherein the law only applied if an individual was convicted of domestic violence against a spouse or cohabitant). Trump has promised to overturn Biden's new laws.

Healthcare - Uninsured Americans are at an all-time low under Biden's administration, with only 7.6% of Americans being uninsured in the second quarter of 2023. The number of people who signed up to Obamacare in 2024 is at 21.3 million - and Trump plans to repeal it.

Climate change - Biden's Inflation Reduction Act invests 300 billion dollars towards clean energy. Electricity generation from renewable energy sources — including wind, solar and hydropower — surpassed coal-fired generation in the electric power sector for the first time in 2022, making it the second-biggest source behind natural gas generation. At a recent dinner with oil executives and lobbyists, the Republican promised to eliminate Mr Biden's new climate rules and environmental regulations if they donated $1bn to his campaign.

Much has been said about Trump's second term beyond the above three points. @batboyblog posted a very clear and concise graphic on Trump's plans for his second term.

The BBC has also posted about Trump's plans for his second term, which I'll screenshot:

Trump is now a felon, but I was really shocked to learn about how little impact this has on his ability to run as president. His supporters are likely to stay by his side, because they believe in these policies.

Biden does not have the same luxury. I don't think he should have the same luxury. Still, I feel like it's important to point out that Trump and Biden's opinions on Israel and Palestine align, but there are a plethora of other issues they do not align on. As a voter, as an activist, when given two political parties, why would you choose based on the similarities as opposed to the differences?

Ways to help Gaza.

Vetted gofundmes.

Other links to help Palestine.

[eugenedebs1920]

There are some on the right, the pro-fascist side, who would claim Dems, liberals are the establishment.

First I would like to start out with the definition of liberal. Liberal: Willing to listen to, or accept ideas and opinions different from one’s own. Open minded.

Now let’s take a loo at conservative. Conservative: Adverse to change or innovation. Holding to “traditional” values.

When one thinks of movements that have bettered humanity, and the world at large are these done in the name of tradition? Are these done by the ideals of old?

Tradition in this country can be rooted back to slavery, back to a time when white people lorded their superiority over others based solely on the color of their skin. It can be traced back to the most wealthy among us, exploiting workers to enrich themselves with as much as possible while no care is given for the health and safety of those who make their wealth possible. Tradition can be traced back to voter suppression and Jim Crow laws, disenfranchising the votes of those who don’t fit their socioeconomic standards, who don’t fit their color code.

This tradition can be traced back to TODAY! Because this tradition of disenfranchisement is happening TODAY! Nearly every state with a GOP majority has done, and is doing all it can to drop voters off the roles. Pretending there’s some kind of fraud. This fraud is simply the poor, those of color, and those who don’t fit a white Christian mold, that they seem to think this country is.

Through years of scheming and planning, through a lack of foresight from our founding fathers, trying to appease slave states. The GOP has found a way of minority rule over the vastly diverse country America is. This minoritarian rule can be seen clearly in SCOTUS, it can be seen in the senate where millions and millions of Americans have little to no say on the goings on in government. Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, all those states combined don’t have the number of citizens California does. All those states are “conservative” states, but California gets 2 representatives, the collective there is 10! A 10-2 vote with not nearly as many constituents. There’s the house though!? Some may argue. The house is a joke! So gerrymandered, useless idiots like Margery toilet Greene will keep her seat for decades to come. We outnumber conservatives in the real world but are trampled by them in representation.

We are the revolutionaries! We are the fight against the forces of old and evil! We are the fight for change! For a better America, for a better world where ALL have equal rights! Where ALL get the same shot at the American dream! Where ALL are treated as members of this country despite their origins or preferences or religion! We are the rebellion against “tradition”. A tradition that seeks to benefit one sect of peoples. We are the other sect and we will not be gaslit to think otherwise.

All of us in the pro-democracy movement are the heart of this nation. The liberals who will take the pinnacle of diversity and thrive with the ideas of all! We are the change. We are the next generation. We are love! We are hope! We are the open minded, accepting, tolerant, compassionate, ever learning, ever growing liberals of the United States of America.

[athenaschild5]

there's a video circulating of a so-called "comedian" at a Trump rally saying, and I quote: "There’s literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it’s called Puerto Rico." So with that, let me introduce myself. Hi, my name is Rania. I was born, raised, and still live in Puerto Rico. I’m writing this because I need to rant about what we face here. Puerto Rico is officially a U.S. territory, or more specifically, an unincorporated territory. This essentially makes us the last colony in the world (look it up if you’d like). We don’t have sovereignty, we can’t vote for the U.S. president, we fight in the US military, but we still pay federal taxes. For over a century, we’ve been colonized and exploited. Our women were once used in forced birth control experiments, and we’re currently experiencing heavy gentrification that displaces locals and erases our culture. Our history has been whitewashed to cast the U.S. in a better light. When Hurricane María, a Category 5 storm, struck the island in 2017, it left a devastating impact that we’re still recovering from. Our power grid is fragile, with constant blackouts nearly every week. In the aftermath of the hurricane, Puerto Ricans pleaded for help. And what did we get? Donald Trump came down here—to toss rolls of paper towels to us. This actually happened; you can look it up. And while we struggle, local politicians mismanage funds (rob us) and exploit the system, especially those from the party that pushes for statehood. Puerto Rico deserves better than this colonial status and the constant overlooking of our struggles. We are resilient, but it’s time people understood the reality we live in. This is just the tip of the iceberg. While this is what’s generally known, most people don’t realize that often the only way things get done is through singers and artists who create businesses to help our communities, because the government fails to take action.

You invade us, you exploit us, you erase our identity, you abandon us and still, you have the audacity to applaud this.

I want to live on this island! I refuse to be just another young person who leaves because I can’t find a job or because the cost of living is skyrocketing! We keep talking, protesting, and fighting just to survive, and yet nothing changes. The U.S. still sees us as nothing more than a floating island of garbage. It’s infuriating!

We. Deserve. Better. Than. This.

[billionbrilliantstars]

Something I’ve been thinking about a lot since the debate is the fact that we are no longer having to choose a lesser of two evils. We now have a strong, vibrant, empathetic, and intelligent choice who will do her absolute best for us. The only way to have a president who you agree with 100% is to become president yourself. Her plan for the economy has been shown by economic experts to be far better for us than Trump’s economy. This was fact checked to be true. She is the candidate proven to support LGBTQ rights all her life. She is the candidate proven to support racial equality, she’s been fighting for it since she was a child. She is the candidate who grew up as a regular person. She is the candidate who cares about both Palestinians and Israelites (the citizens, not the corrupt government). She is the candidate who will push for a ceasefire. Let’s remember that she isn’t president right now. She doesn’t have any power unless there’s a tie to break in the Senate.

I truly believe that if we don’t see a real positive change in this country under Harris it will be because of Congress and Supreme Court pushback. And that is the worst case scenario with a Harris presidency. Nothing changes. What’s the worst case if Trump wins? A project 2025 dystopia. Best case? Increased racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, police brutality etc. The president serves as a role model beyond just their political power. If the commander in chief in a country says it’s okay to hate a certain group of people, the country is going to lay into that.

[justawanderer]

Admiral Gouda loves you and wants you to go Vote today!

Also drink water and step outside for a minute.

Vote Blue

Vote Harris

[aeolianblues]

Starmer has phoned Netanyahu urging a ceasefire calling it an ‘urgent and clear need’. He’s also told the Palestinian president that recognition of a Palestinian state was an undeniable right.

THE TWO PARTIES ARE NOT THE SAME

[arkangelo-7]

Okay, but, imagining Clark Kent and Lois Lane, ace reporters, being in charge of moderating the presidential debate is fucking hilarious.

Like—it’s a shit show from the beginning. Lois is too much of a boss bitch to allow anyone to talk over her and you bet her ass she’s turning off the mic the MOMENT one of the presidential nominees goes over their time limit or tries to interrupt her.

She also religiously fact checks both parties right in the middle of their rebuttals, and it gets so bad that she actually ends up debating both the nominees at one time. Total chaos. No one has any idea where she stands politically because she’s just arguing with everyone and calling out the BS on both sides of the aisle.

And then there’s Clark.

Clark, who, don’t you forget, is actually a damn good reporter. (You don’t skip that much work without getting fired if you aren’t just fucking spectacular at your job, this guy’s got to be like the Kobe Bryant of reporting.) Even though he’s not entirely sure that he should be moderating a presidential debate (he’s technically an immigrant and has, technically, been illegally voting in elections since 2008), he ends up doing very well.

Clark asks a lot of insightful and relevant questions, but gets so irritated when neither of the candidates actually answer the damn question that he has to take a five minute break to keep from burning the studio down with his heat vision. He’s also not as effective as one would think at corralling Lois, which means she spends half the night drilling into these presidential candidates while Clark is in the background trying very hard not to loose his shit.

The debate ends with two thoroughly angered politicians, an indictment by FOX news, a cease and desist from CNN, a formal twitter apology from the Daily Planet, and two very pissed off (but patriotic) reporters.

[myvoteismyvoice]

George W. Bush’s Daughter Barbara Issues Shock Endorsement of Kamala Harris