#idk if you can call this writing

[actual-changeling]

no but after seeing crowley and aziraphale so utterly relaxed and comfortable around each other, walking, sitting, talking closely together, touching, aziraphale no longer having his hands behind his back, just imagine how fucking painful it will be to get an entirely new kind of distance between them in season 3.

they never stayed far apart, not even in eden, not after their fights, never.

aziraphale returns to earth and for every step he takes towards crowley, both emotionally and physically, crowley takes one back.

don't touch me, is never said out loud, yet it's there all the same, written in the air between them.

don't touch me, because it hurts, because it reminds me of what we lost, because it's never going to be enough.

don't touch me, because i will cave, i will fall back into your arms, and cling and cling and cling, until you leave me again.

don't touch me, because if you do, i will take your hand, fall to my knees, and beg you to run away with me again again again. i will ask and you will decline, and we will both hate me for voicing the question in the first place; that is how we began and that is how we ended, how we will always end.

now it is crowley who keeps his hands in his pockets, behind his back, leaning away form aziraphale whenever they get too close, turning his head and fleeing into the cracks in his mind no one except himself can get into.

for centuries, crowley came back to him. every. single. time. it was him who returned, who grovelled, who apologized, who bottled up his anger and hurt and disappointment so he could throw himself between aziraphale and whatever danger they were facing.

he can't do it again, don't touch me, because this time he would sacrifice himself completely and give his entire existence for him, or whatever is left of it, anyway.

don't touch me, he prays, the same three words over and over. please, stay away, don't come closer, don't love me, not now, not after everything.

don't touch me, when all he wants is to open his arms and disappear into the embrace of the only real home he has ever known.

i love you don't touch me

[swordsandholly]

Thinking about a mechanic!AU where the 141 boys run a garage and need a new receptionist. They hire you because you’re just so cute (great tits) and have a decent resume but it becomes a slight problem when they realize you’re a bit… dense.

Total ditz to be precise.

But they can’t really get mad when you get the keys for clients mixed up and look at them with those big eyes all teary and a little pout pushing out your lower lip.

Price is the most patient, perfectly content to walk you through how to file paperwork and fill out forms. Instructing you in a low voice while his breath brushes the shell of your ear. It’s really their fault for having such a terrible system, you know? Don’t worry about it too much, dove. He’ll settle his big hands on your shoulders and gently trace up and down your arms. See? You’re getting it. Just needed some more practice, hm?

Johnny is more than happy to show you around the garage, rattling off everything he knows about all those nitty gritty details that go right over your pretty little head. He’ll pop open the hood of some sports car and point to the engine to show it off. No, bonnie, you’ve got tae get in close. Closer.

Until you’re bent entirely over in one of those too-short skirts you wear everyday. It takes all his willpower not to yank you into the supply closet.

Gaz is just so sweet to you. Always bringing you little treats and candies to suck on. To help you concentrate, of course. Always greeting you with a soft ‘baby girl’ at the beginning of your shift. Whenever you’re standing around be it at the printer or counter - wherever really - he’ll slip a hand on your waist. It always trails a little lower, his pinky just edging on the hem of your too tight jeans.

Ghost gets frustrated with you to the point of causing tears to well up in the corners of your eyes. He’s feels guilty, sure, but bloody hell just print the damn receipt. He avoids you for the most part. Until one evening when it’s pouring down. You forgot your rain coat of course, silly girl. He offers you a ride which you take happily.

After that he can’t get rid of you. You bring him coffees (how you remember his order word for word but not where you last left your own cup is beyond him) and giggle at his jokes. When a client gets too snappy or too loud he’s the first to step in - standing behind you glaring at them with his huge arms crossed over his chest until they back down.

[composeregg]

edit (10/23/2024) now that the poll is over: Original version, with 10 questions, from April 2023 here

And, given that the original is from April 2023, that means I can very easily say:

No, this was not an ISAT reference!

Just because I use parentheses and 2nd person pov and love the same concepts of what a time loop can do to a person doesn't mean it's ISAT

(Yes, I like ISAT, the original poll is why I was recommended the game! But if you look at the original, you can see all the origins of the options to choose from, including what spurred me on with the moss option from the replies)

If I were going to make something for ISAT, I would never be so vague, you can simply look at my ao3 for proof of that

[dukeofthomas]

Here's my controversial opinion; if you're trying to write Bruce as a non-abusive, good parent, you should also write him respecting his kids' privacy, boundaries, and not stalking&surveying them.

[bingsoo-jung]

I said this in the comments of someone else’s post, but I’m going to say this here. Taash identifying as non-binary is good actually, and in fact better than the dev’s making up some new term for them. Let’s get into it.

So for a bit of background, I’m non-binary and Thai. If you don’t know, Thai has specific terms for different gender-sexual identities, they’re quite old, they date back a few hundred years. However, the thing about culturally specific terms is just that, they’re culturally specific. The reason you use them is because you are tied to the culture in such a way that you gender-sexual identity cannot be disassociated from it. Because, to be clear, these terms are never just about your gender or sexual identity. They encompass a role you play within society itself.

For instance, in Thai culture we have tom/tomboys. These are AFAB folks who occupy a masculine societal role and date women. If you’re AMAB you cannot be tom. If you’re transmasc and feminine? You cannot be tom. If you’re transmasc and not attracted to women? You cannot be tom. If you’re transmasc and mostly date men? You cannot be tom. If you’re transmasc but don’t particularly feel like taking care of the girl you date, taking her out, being the ‘man’ in the relationship? You can’t really be tom.

Because the thing about culturally specific genders is that they come with a lot of rules. Being tom isn’t being non-binary. There are cis women who are tom, and there are non-binary people who are toms. You do not get eschew gender roles in these cases. You are quite literally taking one on. You have a role and place in society that has been made for you, and you are expected to carry it out.

Because of this, none of these terms are a one-to-one for other identities, and nor should they be. Being kathoey or hijra is not the same as being a trans woman or non-binary, and visa versa. You can be kathoey and not be trans. You can be trans and not be kathoey. Being aqun-athlok or any other specific term shouldn’t be either. The idea that it is, is more ahistorical and inaccurate than the word non-binary itself. Giving Taash some new, culturally specific term, would inherently tie them to a culture, and one perhaps that they didn’t feel apart of. Especially since Taash’s entire story is about struggling to figure out where they belong. Arguably the biggest issue with their story is that you have to make them decide, and fundamentally tying them to a term would’ve compounded that problem.

The reason I identify as non-binary and not a tom, is because I am not occupying some specific role in Thai culture. Despite living in LA, I rarely interact with other Thai people who aren’t my family. I do not live in a cultural context that would allow me to identify as a tom.

The thing about terms like non-binary, or trans, or agender, is that they’re meant to be acultural terms encapsulating the concept of truth to oneself and ones identity. Whereas culturally specific terms aren’t, they’re about the role you hold in society and where you fit in. It’s about your identity within a status quo. Taash is a character who is eschewing societal roles, and breaking the status quo, giving them those terms just wouldn’t work.

And finally? Using non-binary itself allows the writers to very specifically say where they stand. There is no space given to transphobes. You either accept that DA is queer-friendly or bust. And that’s a very important stance to make in an era where trans and non-binary folks are being actively targeted. There’s no ‘well Taash isn’t actually trans or non-binary they’re [insert term here]!’ Because people would’ve done that, we know they would’ve. This means people can’t do that. They have to just say that they have an issue with the term, and thus we can call them for what they are. Transphobes. Plain and simple.

So yeah, Taash’s identity does have nuance, it has a lot of it. And to be honest with you, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trick Weekes, a non-binary person whose wife is First Nations and thus from a group with culturally specific gender identities, knows about the difference between something like two-spirit and trans. And to be honest with you, using something like non-binary has nuance I doubt was actually afforded to Krem, considering they cast a cis woman to play Krem.

So yeah.

[crystallizsch]

jhgnngggn i’m back to thinking about post-nrc yuusha and jamil--- extremely long ramble below prepare for uh angst??? i guess???

i buried some of these lore in the tags somewhere but anyways-

yuusha and jamil exchanged hair ties when they separated and went off on their own post-nrc as a way to "remember each other by".

they both have different plans for their own futures despite wanting to be "together"— whatever that means. yuusha stayed at nrc working as staff and jamil is out travelling.

at this point though they STILL never officially “dated” but oh they were so so close SO many times to putting a label on it.

“what happened then” <- idk man they’re incredibly stupid. yuusha is still horribly noncommittal and jamil is- jamil. (“…the hell does that mean” <- SHHHH i will not elaborate)

they ended as just "really good friends" (something something on they’re on the spectrum of queerplatonic but they didn’t understand that that was the case) .

━━━━━━✦

at first they did well keeping in touch from a long distance—

yuusha never forgets to check in on jamil, texting/calling whenever possible, she was always the first to initiate.

and jamil still would’ve made the same effort of course, but yuusha always beats him to it. he sort of just expected her check-ins every day.

and he looks forward to that 1-15 notifications that he gets as soon as he wakes up. it does get him going knowing that she was specifically thinking of him at the start of the day.

that wouldn't last though. eventually, the more yuusha met more people and cultivated new relationships, the more she felt herself grow further and further apart from jamil.

yuusha thrives on physical relationships and the majority of the time the only communication and contact between her and jamil is through the phone.

and so the messages from her became less and less frequent as yuusha got more absorbed and interested in her work and other relationships.

don't get it wrong, she still cared about jamil. loved him even, in her own way.

he just became less of a priority.

━━━━━━✦

it was bittersweet to think that jamil finally had the chance to initiate the conversation.

because that meant yuusha had been thinking of him less and he had to remind her himself that— hey he's still there, remember him?— although that's not exactly what he would say. that's a bit too antagonistic and petty. surely, she's just busy. right?

yuusha would respond as if everything was normal. but the usual fondness, the usual warmth, they weren't there. her words through the screen felt dry. forced.

she can use the unnecessary punctuations and emojis she wants but she is not getting past him.

they called. it was nice to hear her voice. but. there's the same feeling of detachment. why are they talking as if this was one of their first times?

yuu, what happened?— is what jamil wanted to ask. but he would also respond nonchalantly. as if everything was normal.

jamil still tried to reach out to her. similar to how she did with him.

but it was to no avail.

their interactions felt too far gone from what they had.

eventually jamil also realized that there was No Point.

if she wasn’t going to make the effort anymore, why should he?

━━━━━━✦

professor yuusha tala walks in to her class which her signature braid and feathered hair tie.

it's lovely having gotten used to working at nrc. her students are surprisingly behaved and she enjoys teasing chatting with her coworkers. surely she isn't missing anything, is she?

and the traveler, jamil viper. he's seen most of the sights, experienced a lot of things. it's like he is slowly fulfilling his childhood dreams.

he ties his hair with the same one he's been using for years. it's a surprise it hasn't snapped yet from how worn out it looks. this really belonged to someone so cheap, huh.

he wonders why he's still using it. he had come across fitting souvenirs that could replace it.

waste of money— jamil convinces himself. besides, this hair tie is fit for every occasion and it's still holding up anyway.

he'll just get a new one when this one finally bites the dust.

if it ever does.

it's really stubborn for a hair tie.

[iizuumi]

Guess Narumi isn't getting any paperwork done ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ink-n-shadow]

I would love to hear more of your ideas on the ABO!141 AU Glad you're feeling better, hope that your day is way better tomorrow <3

thank you love ♥ this was just a lil idea i had about kyle as the only beta in the pack bc i genuinely believe it’d be a little bit stressful and chaotic and he’d just need a break every so often

(also this is an old(ish) work that i've had in my drafts! i'm still kinda on a writing break until next monday, but enjoy <3)

kyle’s kind of the designated caretaker of the home and base. you can always find him straightening the pillows or folding up blankets, sometimes sweeping the dust bunnies from the floors or vacuuming the couch cushions. it’s a way for him to kind of reset himself and get time to himself. as the only beta in the group, it’s sometimes overwhelming to be caught in the middle all of the time, somewhat of a constant push and pull. so when any of you see kyle tidying up, you know to give him his space.

the only one who can really pull kyle out of his routine is john, who strides calmly up behind him as he folds up a blanket to drape along the back of the couch. he’s jostled from his dissociation by the feeling of two giant paws rubbing up his back slowly before resting on his shoulders, giving a soft squeeze that has kyle humming.

“thought you were doin’ paperwork,” kyle mumbles softly as he glanced over his shoulder at the alpha, eyes fluttering when he notices the soft look in them. “y’ need me for somethin’, cap?”

and it’s john’s turn to hum, bringing kyle’s attention back to the blanket with a gentle nudge of his nose against the back of his neck. “need you to take a break—y’know how long you’ve been cleanin’?”

kyle’s silence is enough of an answer, and he finally accepts defeat when john takes the blanket from him and drapes it across the back of the couch half folded, letting the alpha spin him around to face him. kyle instinctively tilts his head to the side, baring his neck for john when the alpha shakes his head gently, tilting kyle’s head back down with a couple fingers on his chin.

“why don’t you go to that one cafe y’like down the street, yeah? take some time for y’self, sweetheart,” john coos softly and lets his hands come up to kyle’s jaw, holding his cheeks in the palms of his hands. before kyle even has the chance to ask the question, john’s answering it. “don’t worry ‘bout the ‘megas—simon ‘nd i got it under control.”

and kyle can’t help but lurch forward to bury his face into john’s neck, arms wrapping around his body and hugging him tight against his body. he lets out a muffled “thanks cap,” which earns him a gentle head rub and a kiss to the temple.

“bring me back some tea, ‘lright? ‘nd grab those croissant things johnny likes. use my card too.”

©️ ink-n-shadow 2024

do not copy, plagiarize, steal, borrow, or repost any of my work without my expressed permission

[14dayswithyou]

Howdy howdy Saint ^^ Get this, Olivia and angel, enemies to lovers. They fight over Ren (or Teo 😋), but it's ok because they just make out in the end!!

Is this in character or no...

cw: Angel puts on gloss in this drabble (they're testin out Kiara's new makeup products), but it's still gender neutral and nondescript!!

Also... Not much enemies to lovers goin on here because I got impatient writing my own build up sgshjghjsjh

"Hmph. I did not get all dressed up just to be ignored like this."

With a slight pout, Olivia slouches against the reception desk and stomps her foot. Her eyes hadn't left Teo and Elanor's figures the moment she walked into the library — that is until you stepped out from the employee's lounge with a new tester product from Kiara in your hands.

Almost immediately, Olivia turns her attention towards you as she slams her hands on the counter in excitement.

"And you... That gloss looks way too good on you to go to waste!" You don't miss the way she eyes your lips curiously. The scowl on her face could've been mistaken for resentment, though her next words only seemed to contradict everything. "Wait... I know that tint— Is it Creston and Co? ...Could I try some? Please!"

With a grin, you gently cup Olivia's chin and lean in. Her eyes widen at your sudden proximity and a small gasp leaves her lips — clearly, she wasn't expecting you to do that — though she doesn't seem to move away. In fact, Olivia only seems to lean closer... Close enough to stand on her tip-toes and press her plush lips against yours.

Something sweet melds with the taste of your own fruity gloss, and you find yourself leaning in for more. Olivia happily obliges, tilting her head to the side with practised ease and gently reaching out to bury her hands in the front of your jacket.

The kiss deepens the moment you feel something warm against your lips, and just as you are about to reciprocate, you hear a deep grumble of someone clearing their throat behind you.

Conan.

Flushed, you pull back almost immediately while Olivia sends you an impish smile. You don't dare to look behind you, though you somehow know that Conan has already retreated into the very same staff lounge you emerged from previously.

"Hehe! Thanks for that!" With Teo now long forgotten, Olivia grabs one of your hands and gives it a gentle squeeze. "Hey... Wanna head to the pier after your shift? I think I'd like your attention all to myself now."

[neproxrezi]

someone else could write it better than me but i love how the fucked up nasty shit you can make harry do/say/be in disco elysium isn't just like, random stuff caused simply by the player having free will and control over him but they're parts of who he is and who he has been

you're not a tabula rasa. you're a sudden shock of blank pages in a big, aged, damaged book and sometimes the paper you're trying to write a better man on is torn and you see something through the gaps nobody needed to see ever again. and it's just there now again, back to the surface

[what-aboutno]

An analysis on c!Owen and his behaviour throughout the Outsiders SMP series!

Some disclaimers before I go into this. There will be spoilers up ahead! I would like to warn anyone reading that this post will mention some blacklisted members from the smp because their characters play a role in showing us about cOwen.

For convenience, all the members mentioned are the characters, not the actual ccs themself. Some of this might seem all over the place, but when the characters learn random parts of themselves at different points it's bound to happen.

Owen has changed a lot as the series has progressed and many find his personality to have changed entirely towards the end, however, this isn’t really the case. When we go over his character, we can see his core values have stuck with him throughout the series, so in this post, I will go over how exactly he has changed over time and his character in general.

To make it easier, I’m gonna split it into 3 parts. Early maze days, the introduction of clearing 2, and post memories.

During the early maze days Owen establishes his character very early on. Right from the beginning, Owen arrives with the demon Rasbi. They are notably one of the three pairs that come up, with most coming up the elevator alone. The first time we see him, Owen immediately takes up a role as a protector, asking if Rasbi knows how to fight in case there is danger up ahead.

In this first section, we can also see that he acts a lot more childish and naive. He’s very emotional and easily upset by his past. He can be seen jumping on rocks with Mohwee and the others and crying on his first night over his loss of memories. The overwhelmingness of the clearing gets to him. This isn’t to say he is some weak, stupid or soft character though. 

Owen may be naive in believing things should be played in certain ways according to his rules but there are many instances where we can see he’s not stupid. First episode he can immediately recognise what knife Oeca is holding “Hey that’s a throwing knife right? No that’s a dagger” 

After getting more settled in the maze he asks about the maze’s agriculture, he mentions everyone is unarmed despite fearing the dangers in the maze. He starts asking about protection, armour, shields and notably, “So this place is safe on the inside? It's safe to walk at night?” He’s already worried for everyone’s safety here, he knows the maze is dangerous so is there anywhere that’s safe? 

Very early on his past also becomes a very important aspect of his personality. He is probably one of the first to remember anything significant about his past. By episode 2 he is getting flashbacks about how to make a bow. But he makes a javelin first, noting “I think I was a hunter. No, I was an archer. I was a hunter. I was a soldier? I was good at this.” He then proceeds to aim the javelin at Oeca’s name, because at this point he can’t fully trust Ocea. He is very quick to violence, although he doesn't want Oeca dead, he certainly can’t trust in him. 

Another important note is that Mohwee is one of the people in the clearing he respected and saw as someone with the ability to act. Which is why we get this interaction where Mohwee calls out “Owen.” and Owen replies with “yes sir”. His past even without his memories is important and ingrained enough he still acts like this, and this only continues as we go through this section.

The first time they go in the maze as a group is when Apo arrives. This is a very important moment for Owen because their first trip in the maze solidifies his personality throughout this section and maybe even the series. Oeca is shot because Mohwee was careless and brought anyone in. When the group comes back, Owen asks Graecie, “How many entrances are there to this maze?” After finding out this is the only one that opens, he refuses to let anyone get hurt again and starts blocking it off.

Trust and promises are very important to Owen here too because it's one of the key reasons he blocks off the entrance. It’s not just Oeca getting hurt, it’s the fact he promised Graecie he wouldn't go in. “I broke my promise.” He also takes Apo’s word very seriously in the mine when he tells Owen he didn’t pull the lever. Also because of this he only trusts himself to go in the maze.

When the entrance is blocked off Owen is quick to violence and threatens people if they try to get past him. After finding the old battle axe he starts using it to threaten and intimidate people. “Anyone who goes past this (the gate) i will attack”

“Anyone else that will, I will just cut down” are some of the things he says. He punches Mohwee for trying to get past him. When Oeca comes back after Mohwee’s disappearance, Owen follows him with that battle axe trying to talk.

Owen then goes on to say “I’m not looking for violence” and “I'm not collecting weapons this was instinctual (points at bow)” he doesn't want people to think he’s dangerous and he knows people are scared of him.

Even if he seems aggressive he still wants to protect others. Owen goes back in the maze to look for Mohwee after he randomly disappears on their way back. “My job is to protect people and I will do that to the best of my abilities. At every possible stage”

When Mohwee disappears Owen takes a massive risk to stay in the maze overnight to see if the gates would open. “The only thing I remember about my life Graecie, is that I was raised to protect people. That's all I remember. And I know it was dumb and stupid to go in the maze but if it got us a step closer to finding Mohwee. I was willing to make that risk”

So we’ve established that Owen cares about the people in the clearing even if he doesn't trust all of them, he wants to protect them and he will do it no matter what. It's the purpose he has given himself in order to be useful.

He knows it doesn’t work how he wants it to. People are scared and wary of Owen’s protection. There are multiple instances where he tells his voices, “They don’t get it,” because he knows people don’t trust his methods. His method of control is disliked by a lot of people. 

Ori is one of the main characters to go against Owen. Owen hates this because not only does it risk the safety of others but it goes against his main purpose he gave himself. He takes this job very seriously. So when Ori goes in the maze it’s no wonder Owen becomes very violent.

“Ori I'm seriously sorry I will break your legs and I'm very close to it. Are you gonna make me. “

He doesn’t see himself to be super aggressive though “People think I'm being really aggressive when I talk like ‘oh hey if you come near me I'm gonna break your legs’ but I'm saying it in the most friendly way I can, you understand that right? I'm not trying to be aggressive with that��

“I'm saying like if you do step in here I will have to break your legs. In like a very gentle and I'm very sorry I hate to inconvenience you but I do have to break your legs.”

When Ori sneaks into the maze, Owen talks a lot about his purpose. Things like “Don't, I'll fail them. They'll kill me. My entire purpose here is to stay by this door and stop you from coming in.”

Owen hates to know he is failing the purpose he has given to himself “When I discovered I was a soldier that's what I set myself to (protecting others) but what do I have to show for myself? I have tried my hardest to protect these people. And get they look at me and tell me I'm a tyrant” “you're not in control, who are you to say what happens?”

He would do anything, even if it meant sacrificing himself. As shown before when Mohwee disappears but also as he protects the gate after the second lever gets pulled he says “I'm going to protect them if I die in the process so be it”  

Another note before this section ends is that it’s not just Ori who opposes Owen. Sillvia also talks about Owen’s method of leadership.

Sillvia about Owen: Owen I think you would be great. If not for the fact that you have a militaristic mindset. I don't want to see your leadership spiral into a place where Apo wants. Owen I fear you and I want you to know that. I actually fear you and I don't say that about many people. And ruling should not be through fear. You are a terrifying individual and to see you be in a position of power would be a slope we cannot afford or gamble slipping down. We've seen you tussle with Ori. I know you're a strong individual. You could lead us quite well but it's the risk that comes with your leadership that I am not willing to risk. 

The perception Owen has of himself differs from how he comes off. It becomes more of an issue later but we can already see this happen. 

So as clearing 2 is introduced this is what we know about Owen. He was a soldier once, he wanted to protect people in the clearing even if it meant sacrificing himself. He’s nice to others but his methods are still aggressive and violent, ready to hold a weapon to someone if needed and Owen cares a lot about trust. 

With the introduction of clearing 2 we can see how Owen changes and develops. He’s very cautious of clearing 2 members because for all he knows they could have led the creature that destroyed half their clearing in on purpose. 

Owen also faces betrayal from Apo. We know trust is something Owen values a lot. It’s mentioned in the early days, and it’s a major part of why he feels so strongly about Apo lying. During the scene where Owen faces Apo after finding he pulled the lever that killed the second clearing, his main issue with Apo isn’t the fact that he killed people. It was the fact he lied to him.

“You lied to me. Why did you do it? No no no I don't care about the lever. Apo why did you lie to me? You're my friend I trusted you. I stayed there. I held your back when oeca said it was you. I put my name on the line. Because we stood together in the mine and I asked you to swear to my face that you didn't do it. And you lied to me. Im meant to be your friend and you lied.” 

You can also see what Owen values in a person when they discuss Apo’s punishment and Owen says there's 3 main things he did

- went into maze without group consent

- pulled the lever

- he lied

Owen only adds on at the end that he left Squidney.

With all of this too we see Owen for the first time back away from the job he gave himself. He backs away from leadership, we start to see how tired Owen is from the stress of it all. His reasoning has to do with his trust being broken.

“What's the point they're all liars. This entire place is filled with filthy liars. Every single person. All I've ever done is tried to protect them”

“Forget it. I'm done. I'm don't helping people. No I'm not villain, I'm not a hero I'm nothing.

From now on there is no leader of the maze. They put me in charge. My word means nothing to them I'm done.”

“How am I meant to protect them when I try and stop them with physical force im made out to be some kind of monster. When I try to reason with them I'm made out to be soft.”  

Owen being viewed as soft has always been something he’s aware of. People tend to think because he’s kind that they can do whatever they want (sneak into the maze etc) and this perception Owen is a soft person develops. Even if he’s emotional and kind we’ve seen before in early maze days he is not soft. 

Owen tries to ignore all his problems but with it he grows more aggressive than before. His tone changes when he speaks about other people to his voices.

“To visit him would be to acknowledge he exists. And right now the last thing I want to do is consider the fact that this thing lives and breathes and eats and sleeps under my feet. The sooner he wastes away and fades into nothingness the better. I don't see a life going forward with him in it” - Owen about Apo

“The more I look around these stupid 4 walls the more I'm reminded that he that. That I trusted him.”

"he's everywhere. It's like a disease. Like it festers. The outside looks fine and you look just below the surface and it's rotting vile and it's him”

Apo: Just give me a chance.

Owen: why should I? So you can have another tick to the long list of times Owen has naively believed there is some good in the people that infests this clearing? Oeca, mohwee, Bekyamon, Magic, Graecie, Ori, you, liars. All of you.

I’m not just putting quotes here just for you to see oh trust is important! But more so for you to see that Owen changes when his trust has been broken or when he sees someone as a threat. Some of these things sound very similar to what Owen would say when he gets his memories back. Because to Owen trust and protection are 2 very important values. When that is broken he can’t be certain someone isn’t a threat. 

With this change Owen does become more aware he isn’t the most approachable person due to his methods. I do want to bring up this quote first though 

"Can I kill someone? Ive been thinking about this recently I say I'm a soldier. But I've never actually killed anyone. All my life in these 4 walls I've spoken about security and fighting and I can't remember a time I've actually taken someone's life. What if I have to. What if it comes to that I don't think I could stomach it either. I doesn't feel like me. It's not me it's not who I am. No I can't. I'll only attack this person if they do something first. And even then I'll just aim to incapacitate" - Owen about Ash

This is an interesting quote from Owen knowing his later actions but it’s not that out of character. If we look at every flashback he’s had so far we can see the life of a soldier is not one he’s always wanted.

Owen to his dad: What if I'm not ready to be your protector? No It's what you've always wanted! What if I wanted to do something else? What if I don't want to be a soldier what about me when do I get to look out for myself.

However he is always ready to attack if he needs to, if it comes to it he would do anything to protect someone. I think that means to kill even if Owen doesn’t think so at this point. 

His notebook btw

Another note about his behavior is that because of how others view him he almost dies from the creature’s venom. Ayngel even said before Owen is more angry. Other people even though it sounds jokingly say Owen gets grumpy when people disrupt him, leading to no one but Soup to check up on him when he gets stung.

When Bek comes back he doesn’t hesitate to do the things he did before. He does what he thinks is right and protects Magic by aiming a javelin at Bek. He says he’s not violent but anytime he feels like he’s in danger he pulls out a weapon. He did it when he was in Soup’s basement, he does it anytime he hears about someone potetially harming Rasbi, and he did it when he heard Oeca attacked Graecie. 

Owen in general is a fighter at heart. Even if he says he doesn’t want to kill anyone he is still ready to attack. 

Owen: this isn't you Ori. You fight. That's what you do.

Ori: what are you talking about?

Owen: you fight people. When you don't get your way you fight. You and I are the same

At the end of this section, the group decides not to go back in the maze. They had lost Squidney, Oeca, Mohwee, with the presumption that Red, Apo and Graecie were either dead or dying. Owen is tired of it all “Every Time I've tried to protect someone they've ended dead Kyle” he tries to hope but he is so tired. This tiredness also explains some things that happen when he gets his memory back. 

So to summarise before looking at Owen when he gets his memories back, this is what we know about Owen. He wants to protect his friends, he believes in trust a lot, he is both seen as more aggressive and angry these days and soft at the same time, he wants to be a good leader but other people don’t listen. Not much has changed since the early maze days, but it’s a more solid character now. 

When the reunion comes around Owen in the story has finally had a moment to think about everything that happened between him and Apo. His main regret in the series was how he treated him even if he broke his trust. 

Owen loves to contradict himself a lot but it’s a very human trait he has. He has complex feelings about Apo, and Beks and a lot of people. Yet he’ll still offer his protection to them. It’s because of this the ‘sudden’ shift in personality he has becomes very shocking to the audience. 

Since right before he sees Apo, Owen is very emotional here. Very similar to how he was in the early maze days. It’s out of his character to hope for something like seeing Apo because he knows it’s very unlikely he’ll see him again. However he gives himself this hope, one more chance. 

When Owen regains his memories the tone shift is obvious. He acts less emotional, he seems more mature. But we do need to consider this is someone who just had a lifetime of memories shoved back in his head and his core values are so strong that Owen doesn’t hesitate to act the way he used to. 

There’s lots of similarities to Owen here to the one we’ve known. Like his purpose. He sets one for himself immediately after arriving in the clearing. Even as he talks to Apo about his past he talks about his purpose

“I had a purpose once. I was useful, vital, adored. And suddenly everything changed. The world grew tired of blood shed. When all you're good for is violence, when you've been breed into a killing machine, a nation of peace will toss you aside like a spent torch”

There’s an obvious difference here right? The man we’ve watched in the maze who wanted to protect his friends just killed his best friend. This is definitely a different person right? Yes and no. Owen hasn’t changed that much, and I'll explain why after we go through some more things. But it’s important to note that this isn’t a completely new person, this isn’t something that is unexpected when we go through the information we already have about Owen. 

“I know what you are, you are everything wrong in the world has to offer. You are the amalgamation of all the gluttony and lust of humans with the evil and cunning of demons. You stand as a testament to everything vile. You are a disease on the face of this earth and I am it's curse” 

Apo: this isn't you you've changed 

Owen: incorrect, this is me. The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive. 

Owen wants protection for his friends. He goes to extreme lengths to keep people safe, so when he remembers demons as this evil creature that will hurt people for their own gain he wasn’t going to stand around and do nothing right? 

Surprising or not this is very in character for Owen if we look at everything else we have from the series. To him, he is still doing his job, the one he’s done since day 1 in the clearing. Just now the threat isn’t just the maze and the occasional person, it’s demons. 

The way Owen became a demon hunter is essential too. He used to live in comfort, and based on past flashbacks he was training to be a soldier even if he didn’t fully enjoy it. His mother was a poet and his father was a general. He had grown up hearing all about how terrible demons are, and he didn’t understand until his village had been burned down.

One negative interaction with demons had put this deep hatred in his heart for them. Before his memories returned he was ready to forgive Apo, he knew he wasn’t as dangerous as he made him out to be. But when the sudden influx of memory comes, he has this past knowledge that Apo is a threat. 

Since Apo had hurt Owen before this only adds to it. Remember Owen really values trust. Apo has broken that trust in the past, so everything combined and letting go of the final restriction it’s no wonder he kills Apo. 

Despite this ‘massive personality change’ Owen has, when he returns to the clearing he still makes sure Magic is safe. He doesn't tell people about the lava rising so he wouldn’t cause panic. He still cares about these people. 

But Owen starts to view all the demons as a threat, every demon in the clearing has done something to suggest they could be dangerous. The reason Owen kills Guts is because they poisoned the food at the feast, which led to Magic being poisoned. He carries out this duty for protection

I think another thing people tend to forget about Owen is that he's been slowly breaking apart trying to fit what others want from him as seen in the last section. And it took a major toll on him. His outburst at Magic is one of the ways shown to us how much stress he’s been under. Perhaps even guilt he’s been feeling.

Magic: if you don't you're just putting everyone danger by not leading us… in there…

Owen: danger? You want to talk about putting others in danger? All of this coming from who exactly? The woman who's clearing burnt down under her leadership? The woman who lied about that previous position of leadership as she lacked the spine to correct her friend when she lied? The woman who was tied up and left for dead by that same friend? The woman who swore to protect a stranger only to them shot down in front of her? What the woman who stood still as her friend was ripped apart beside her? Oh yeah the magnitude of your failures Magic is deafening. Do you hear it? When you fall asleep at night, do you hear the screams of the dead who's blood stain your hands? How do you cope? When you find out be a good friend and let me know would you? Been looking for a way to shut them up. 

Owen does try to justify his actions to his voices even if they don’t listen. He knows people here aren’t good. He’s known this since clearing 2 was introduced, but with his memories back he feels like he has to carry on this duty by killing the threat. That’s the only way to keep people in the clearing safe right?

Owen to voices: have you stopped to think why I'm doing this? You seem so attached to these creatures, why? What good have they done? These people aren't good people. None of us good people. We're all in here for a reason. Just because you haven't taken your rose tinted glasses off to see that doesn't mean the rest of us haven't. 

Like before he won’t let anything stop him, even if it means hurting a few people. He doesn't hesitate to pull out a weapon when he hears Ayngel might know him. He can’t risk anything ruining his plans because he can’t afford to. He’s so tired. I think at this point anyone that was a major threat to him he would kill. 

Ayngel: I feel like I recognise you. You and your face from somewhere 

Owen: oh? (Starts to pull out knife from his bag)

Ayngel: I've been having this thought and it's got me thinking (Owen pulls out a knife in case)

Ayngel: actually, honestly forget it. It's all a dream and I'm overthinking

The only exception to his thinking is Rasbi. Rasbi actually hasn’t done anything wrong to him personally. She’s one of the few people that didn’t break his trust but he still kills her. Why? 

First off he doesn’t see her as the friend he wanted to protect but instead as something he protected only to kill in the end to fulfil his duty. Her sister is the reason why he ended up in the maze, so even without Rasbi directly harming Owen in any way it’s enough for Owen to kill her. I’m sure any small mistake or detail would have led Owen to killing any demon, because it only proves his thinking. 

Owen barely survives after Rasbi attacks him. So as Owen starts planning how to kill Krow he starts going a bit insane. His room is a mess, his mind is a mess and he can barely stand it anymore. We really start to see him fall apart here

Owen: this yolk is a burden is a burden I can't carry for much longer. I'm tired. I want to rest. But I took a pact, I made a promise. A glorious death is his for who his country falls and either I or they thing will have to die before I stop. 

Something that’s brought up when discussing the idea of ‘Maze Owen’ is the fact that we can see ‘glimpses’ of him in different interactions. For example when Owen and Krow go out into the maze and Owen spots Puddy he makes sure Puddy doesn’t die by keeping him away. Even if he’s aggressive in the scene the fandom interpretation is the care he has for Puddy as ‘Maze Owen’ slipped through. But It’s not out of character for him to still show care for people after his memories are returned based on everything we’ve seen.

Before ‘killing’ off Krow, Owen does say this “There's no escaping who you are” Which is really interesting since most characters he’s interacted with will tell him in the maze you can escape who you used to be. Owen knows for a fact no matter what he does in life now he will never have anything outside the maze. Because the world doesn’t need him anymore. He kills the demons as his final act of service to the world because he has nothing else to offer. 

When Krow finally comes back and Owen gets hit in the head he says to the rest of the group “I was protecting you all.” and “You don't know what they're like! You haven't seen the outside world.”

Looking at his final moments we see that everyone that Owen has cared about doesn’t trust him anymore. They don’t believe his protection was needed. He’s told that he will not get out of this cell. He’s left alone in the silence of the cell. Finally with the time to think. He starts experiencing multiple flashbacks and it makes it hard for him to think. 

We’ve seen in the past how Owen deals with multiple flashbacks. It gives him a headache or causes him pain in some cases. He also becomes really emotional afterwards. This follows the same case. Except he starts to realize some things.

Krow: I know those eyes. That glint of desperation for approval but knowing it's never coming. We're more similar than you let yourself believe you and I

(Flash back ‘i was an archer.?’ ‘i was a hunter?’ I was a soldier)

“I was a tool. Used.”

He knows he’s going to die soon and he starts to panic. The most important line he says is 

“So what now? This is it!? I deserve to die in battle. I killed them. It was what I. Its just what I was meant to do. I was trained. Should i have? I should have. I should have. I can't think inside my head, it's split in two” 

“So what voices? What was I before then huh? Was that me? Is that who people trust? People trust that one. Old Owen. Yes? It wasn't me. That wasn't me” flashback about Apo first coming up

“I can't think. I can't. They trusted him. They trusted him but not me? My head…”

After this he pleads with Magic to let him out. Owen claims “I hurt them, I hurt my friends. Rasbi, Guts. And Apo, Krow I don't know why I did those things” He pleads and cries. And he's desperate

Owen: “No magic it's me please.” 

Magic: “You kill people owen”

Owen: “It wasn't me I'm sorry. I just wanted to keep people safe.” 

Owen: “Magic please don't go… no… magic. You can't do this.”

Magic: “I can and I am” 

I think when we look at these final clips there’s a very important thing happening. Owen is separating himself from the past. He can’t understand why his friends don’t trust him. Even though nothing has changed. To him his eyes have been opened to the dangers of demons and he fulfilled his purpose. 

Why does this separation even happen? This is where we move to the final part of this long analysis and look at theories. There’s no way I can say for sure this is right or this is wrong. I can only tell you what I think based on the material already there. 

So before I go into this I have to emphasize I am not saying you can't refer to earlier Owen as maze Owen to explain Owen at different periods of his life. I'm saying when we really look at it, maze Owen doesn't exist since they're the same person. 

So what am I talking about? The concept of ‘maze’ Owen has been around for a long time. Even ccOwen talks about his character like that. The idea that just because Owen didn’t have his memories that he was some sweet, soft guy that needs to be babied is something that affects a lot on how you view him as a character. 

'maze' Owen doesn't actually exist because it's a way that Owen has come up with to justify to himself how he could have cared for demons without shattering his ideals. This is confused with Owen have distinct personalities and missing how he hasn't strayed from his ideals since the start with his idea of protecting everyone.

To separate that period of Owen's life in the maze ignores the fact that the characteristics you see in Owen post reunion are the same from before but taken to the extreme.

He's always been capable of ‘evil’'. It's the same as every other character in the series. We don't separate them like we do with Owen. Every character in the series is inherently morally gray, they do things out of desperation to survive. You can never say someone is 100% good or bad. 

Owen’s same mindset of 'I need to protect the people I care about because they're in danger now' carries through. After the reunion in his head demons are no longer part of that group he wants to protect. 

The separation of 'maze' and post reunion Owen forgets even in the post memory phase he had the ability to love like 'maze' Owen had. He released Puddy, he started a small farm, he started to relax. It's all part of him.

In his final moments he says a few important things to note. The first being "I was a tool. I was trained. Should I have... I should have." And then right after "I can't think in my head it's split in two"

It seems some take this as 'maze' Owen coming back and fighting with Owen on should he have killed Apo and the others. However rather than 'maze' Owen coming back i think it's this internal conflict he has with himself and his ideals.

Before he says this he's getting flashbacks to the early maze days where he showed kindness to demons. Something he would never let himself do in the past outside the maze. And something he would never do after he remembers it all.

Then he says to the voices "Is that who people trust? Old Owen" while those memories are playing. The voices respond saying they miss that Owen and he replies "Yes? That wasn't me" this is possibly where it further adds to the whole 'maze' Owen is a different person thing.

Rather than facing the fact that his thinking doesn’t make sense anymore he separates himself from those memories. As soon as Owen accepts that demons are not these creatures that betray and kill you at any moment, his life has no purpose.

Owen’s thinking comes from the manipulation and propaganda he's been fed. In his final episode we get these quotes which show just how much his thinking revolves around protection and also showing what years of training did to him.

He understands he was a tool that was used. He's well aware everything he is doing may not have a purpose and yet he still plays this part. He can't break away from that thinking because if he lets himself, Owen has to face the fact that his whole life had no true meaning.

That is a terrifying thing to do. He has been in this environment for so long you can’t just take him out of it. 

Going over everything you can access in Owen’s pov, we know that before gaining his memories Owen is a person that cares deeply about his friends, he risks himself to protect them, he won’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone he sees as a threat. Owen thinks trust is an important value to have, he takes it very seriously. But we also know that not everyone likes Owen and his leadership. He’s seen with a military mindset, people don’t want to upset him and it nearly costs his life.

Now let’s compare that with the Owen we get to know after his memories return. He wants to protect the people he deeply cares about, he risks himself to protect them, he doesn’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone that he sees as a threat, only now the threat is demons. When we start looking at these differences, yes, Owen when he regains his memories is different, his tone changes, he murders people. But those core values we’ve seen throughout the series stay with him.

It’s one of the reasons why Owen can’t understand why no one in the clearing is on his side. He protected them against the threat they didn't know about. That is his purpose, and that’s what he’s good for. Remember right at the beginning of the series Owen sets his purpose to protect these people, now this is still the same. He views demons as a threat because he hasn’t had good experiences with them. Even if Apo became his friend in the clearing, Apo ends up lying to Owen, and betraying his trust. Guts became his friend but Guts tried to poison Magic. Owen has never fully trusted Krow and that distrust only furthers once he knows what Krow is capable of based on his experiences with demons.

So let’s go back to the previous question: who was it there? You’re probably thinking well how do you explain maze Owen and the chips. ccOwen has mentioned before that it's a possibility for the chips to alter memories. Maybe Starr suppressed those memories and maze Owen was there again. Or he was hit hard on the head right? Maybe his chip was damaged and it altered his emotions and memory.

There is too little known information to us as an audience about the chips in their head. We know they can supposedly make the outsiders lose track of time, alter their memories, their emotions and change how they act. But if the chips in their head is the explanation for everything then why does Owen remember killing his friends when he talks to Magic? He says it like he wasn't the one doing it, like he watched someone else do it. How do you explain his behaviour then? If the damaged chip really made him act like that then why do flashbacks still occur when he's in prison? He seems to have no control over those, so the chip must still work fine?

I think when we look at his character the maze has already changed him whether he likes it or not. There’s more doubt in him than before. He lets Apo go with extra time. He hesitated before he ran after him. No matter how small, he has changed.

But when Owen talks about himself in the past he makes this separation. The voices in his head won't stop calling for the guy they used to know, even though he's right here. I think Owen doesn't even want to acknowledge at one point he was friends with the demons he hated so much. 

In that prison cell all his ideals and values are facing him. Everything he's done and he's known has been a lie. I think he knows this but can't bring himself to acknowledge that. Would you admit what you thought for your entire life was wrong? That you killed countless for nothing?

When faced with death Owen becomes desperate. Which I think explains his behaviour with Magic. That is his last hope and he knows people like the older version of him. I don't think he's fully lying though when he says i don't know why I did those things. Not because maze Owen came back or anything but because in the maze he no longer has this duty but he still carries it out. He's so tired from it all and he wants to leave it behind but he can't.

So let's go over his death scene one more time. “My head it's split in two” I think the explanation for this is that he was just hit with a bunch of flashbacks of his first days. Right before this he also says ‘I was a tool. Used’ I believe in his final moments where he has a moment to think he starts to fight himself. Should he have done all this for a country that throws him away the second he's useless? He was trained to do this. But should he have really? That's what I think is making him say my head it's split in two. He's fighting his own views and alongside these positive memories it makes him confused. And overwhelmed.

It's important to note Owen doesn't have a single bad flashback about Apo and Rasbi. He doesn't think about the levers, he thinks about his friends that he met. That he protected.

The more flashbacks he gets the more defensive he becomes. “I'm right here you can't convince me otherwise” He doesn't understand why the Owen in his memories is trusted so much, even though they're the same person. In his mind he's doing what he's always done. protect.

“It wasn't me I'm sorry I just wanted to keep people safe” everything he says to Magic is half genuine and half lie. I don't think even Owen knows which parts are which. It's easier if he separates himself into the nice trusted Owen and who he is now.

No matter what in the end, that was Owen. Not Maze Owen but Owen who is desperate to live. He's tired of it all. He's finished his mission and he won't even get to see what he thinks will be an honorable ending for him.

Remember what Owen says to Apo? "The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive."

So of course he'll do anything to survive even if it means playing up the truth.

It's hard to separate Owen into these neat boxes and say for sure that was Maze Owen at the end or that was full manipulation. Because like Owen everything is a bit grey here. Maze Owen wasn't the best person, he hurt his friends, people were scared of him. And post memories Owen isn't some misunderstood guy that needs babying either. 

My final thoughts on this debate is that in the end the one that pleads for his life is just Owen. To separate him and say it was Maze Owen doesn't allow you to understand how complex Owen is as a character. And continues to let you believe that Owen can't do anything wrong. Not understanding sometimes a good person is capable of this evil. To the end Owen still believed he was doing what was right and that was protecting the ones he cared about. So has anything really changed since the start?

[thethespacecoyote]

I still feel like the craziest part of the book of bill is bill making ford stand on his roof in the freezing cold and ford realizing bill couldve made him jump but didn't. like. what the fuck

[b1mbodoll]

um. can i say somethinf

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[necrotic-nephilim]

for the ask game (1)

au where bruce is attracted to his robins and batgirls. he tries not to think about it or act on it, but it's getting more difficult with every new member of his team he acquires. does anyone know? do the robins and batgirls notice his weird behavior? what do they do about it? do they ever find out the truth? who would think it's terrible and who would find it strangely hot/comforting/nice? does bruce ever act on his feelings?

for the ask game!

oh my GOD do i have thoughts for AUs like this, i love this shit so dearly, dirtybadwrong Bruce who's trying to keep a lid on it my beloved.

i think the fun of this AU is if characters would notice Bruce lusting for themselves vs would they notice Bruce lusting for a different Robin/Batgirl. like does Dick pick up on it when it's just him and Bruce? no, because it's just. him and Bruce. he and Bruce are weird and complicated and hold endless bounds of nuance. that's just How Bruce Is, and Dick is the "test run", in a sense. he knows Bruce is new to this whole sidekick/family thing and is giving Bruce grace for being rough around the edges. but when Bruce starts looking at Jason or Tim or Cass that way, that's when Dick starts to notice. it's never enough of a suspicion he feels justified to bring it up, but the thought lingers. he's hyperaware and grows less and less comfortable with leaving them alone with Bruce. it's a weird game of chicken, Dick and Bruce staring each other down when Bruce's touch lingers too long. each waiting for the other to say something first. if Bruce ever broke and actually acted on his feelings, Dick would be eaten alive by the guilt of knowing something was up, but never saying something until it was too late.

obviously, Cass would know. there's no world where Cass *doesn't* know, the nature of who and what she is would immediately clock it. but the issue is, Cass doesn't have a good framework of what family looks like. she doesn't really understand familial vs romantic love bc she has no firsthand experience of what a parent's love should even look like. so she never calls it out. she just watches. i'm a fan of Cass believing this is normal and believing she too can express and act on attraction that's vaguely incestuous. maybe it's with Babs, maybe it's with Dick or Tim or Bruce himself. but she recognizes this as Normal and Accepted within the Batfamily, so it severely fucks up her understanding of familial love and i just. man it's my favorite thing about Cass in Batcest honestly, is how you can play with her lack of experience with love, boundaries, and sexuality.

Tim is the fun one for me. because my favorite flavor of BruTim is when Tim knows, as he agrees to be Robin, that there's a non-zero chance that Bruce is going to be Weird and agrees anyway because he's decided it's an acceptable risk. so Tim knows from the get-go because he's expecting it. if Bruce acts on his attraction, i think it's either with Tim or Cass first, because they're the most likely to confront him about it in a way that isn't entirely negative. Tim has accepted it's a possibility and Cass just seeks being loved and touched so. it leads to the first time someone's ever confronted Bruce about it. and the thing is, Bruce really doesn't like confrontation about his flaws. the first time Tim tries to imply he's okay with it, Bruce would lash out at the idea, tell Tim how inappropriate that is and benches Tim for a week. it'd probably take a united front from Cass and Tim to get Bruce to even *admit* to the attraction. still Bruce wouldn't allow it to happen and he brushes them off until finally, the dam breaks. it's fun if there's a cause like sex pollen, but i think it's *more* fun if it's just. a random fucking Tuesday and finally Bruce is at his limit. he has no real reason, there's nothing particularly different about that day's routine. he just sees Tim or Cass striping armor and sighs and gives in.

i don't think Steph, Jason, or Babs would notice until anything substantial happened. not because they're not wicked smart, but just because none of them were looking for it. Jason put Bruce on a pedestal when he was alive, and when he came back from the dead he wasn't close enough to be noticing Bruce's interpersonal dynamics outside of his narrow scope. Steph has no real framework for what healthy fatherhood looks like, so if Bruce's touches linger, if he stares too long, she just shrugs and assumes it's how it is. and Babs was just never quite close enough to Bruce to notice. if and when she notices, is when actual sexual things start to happen between Cass and Bruce. because Cass would see no reason to hide it. Babs would be pissed, but it'd be tricky to navigate. Cass would be an adult, even if she's only 18/19, so technically, she's old enough to be consenting. if nothing else, Bruce is a careful man. even when he breaks and gives in to his desires, he covers his tracks well. he makes sure he has enthusiastic consent and there's no legal recourse that could be taken. age of consent and all that. there's not much Babs can *do* other than try to tell Cass (and/or Tim) that this isn't normal or okay. not that it gets her anywhere, but god would she try.

by the time Duke comes along (if we venture out of the pre-Flashpoint era) i think it's a sort of. open secret, in the Batfamily. talked about in nothing but hushed whispers and knowing glances. at some point, they've all had sex with Bruce, caving all for different reasons. some more than others. Tim sees it as a duty, Cass sees it as a way of seeking comfort, Steph sees it as getting Bruce's approval for once, etc. it's never forced on them, but eventually, they all come to Bruce sooner or later. and that's the fun irony of it, i think. they try to convince the others not to, but would go to Bruce on their own well. because complicated reasons they can't put into words. sometimes, Bruce is just a messy man who doesn't realize how prized his Attention to for the rest of the Batfamily. that weird duality of not liking him, but also wanting desperately for him to like you. all of them have dealt with it, at some point. so for Duke, it takes a while for him to understand this... whole dynamic. it's Cass who tries to explain it to him, and he's a little horrified, a lot confused. especially when Bruce starts staring at him a little too long as well. i think he'd only want to watch first but well. they all cave eventually.

also fun bonus if we venture into the Dark Knight Returns universe for my bestest girl Carrie Kelley: there's such a like, "i'm fucking around and i'm finding out" vibe to Carrie. like Tim, she's very proactive in just. deciding she's going to be Robin and she's ready for whatever that entails. (IMO canon Carrie is closer to fanon Tim than canon Tim is but *that* deserves its own post-) like she takes one look at the old man that is Batman and goes yup. he's never fucking getting rid of me now. if Bruce started having weird feelings about her, i think she'd have *fun* with it. she's decided she's in it for the long haul and for whatever being Robin means so. she's almost teasing about it, seeing how hard she can push before Bruce snaps. since it's an older, gruffer Bruce, i think he'd express open annoyance at it first, almost a sort of banter about how Carrie behave. but of course he caves and Carrie leans into it, because there's a fun in having all of Bruce's attention to herself. in the main timeline, Bruce is pretty split with so many Robins and Batgirls, but during their era, it's *just* her and him and she's very proud she's got him all to herself.

[mintypsii]

dekho mujhay urdu mein lineay marne nahi aati meri taraf mat dekho yeh sanji ki galti hai