#i want group discussion!
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I may have posted about this before, but I don't understand the whole proshipper/anti debate. As far as I understand, I'm on the side of proshippers (i think fiction is fiction and doesn't have to reflect reality. because it's fiction.), but what I don't get is why there's such a clear defined binary, and why there's such animosity between the two. It's just a difference in opinion, like any other, isn't it? I understand that either group can "take it too far" (though i dont really get how proshippers could be TOO okay with problematic ships). but i really think either viewpoint is fine to a degree, they both have logic behind them, and it's just a matter of preference, isn't it?
#what i think i'm getting about why proshippers dislike antis so much is the restrictiveness?#but i dont. i doubt antis really want. like. any problematic relationship to either be eradicated or punished.#i'm willing to guess it's closer to “i don't want relationships that have issues + the narrative doesn't provide anything to challenge them#for me i think that's just kinda uninteresting storytelling but it shouldn't be BANNED. yk.#the idea of fiction is getting to see the world from another perspective.#and some perspectives are fucked up. that's just a fact. in fact it's often more fun to read fiction from someone who's “morally wrong”#because you get to see how they tie themself into knots to justify their actions.#but i completely get why someone might not like that. sometimes it's difficult to read a story where the pov is an asshole.#so just don't read it! it doesn't have to be a big deal! i dont get it#existenceunrelateds#antis#proship#proshipper#antiship#antishipper#proshippers please interact#antis please interact#i want group discussion!
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I think a lot about Leo standing up for his brothers in the things that really matter to them.
Like- Leo is the one who immediately pushes Mikey and Donnie into finding Raph the second it’s clear that their oldest brother is missing because he knows Raph can’t handle being separated like that.
Leo is the one who stands up for Mikey when Mikey wants to go on a solo mission, actively vouching for him and being the one to convince Raph into letting Mikey go, because being independent and proving himself just as capable of standing on his own two feet as everyone else means so much to Mikey.
And Leo defends Donnie’s honor in particular when his brothers’ intelligence is insulted because Leo is well aware of how important Donnie’s smarts are to him - and how important having those smarts valued and acknowledged is as well.
All this goes right into just how well Leo knows his brothers. For as much as he’ll tease or fight with them, he knows them, and he loves them.
#rottmnt#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#rottmnt leo#rottmnt headcanons#rise leo#listen Leo loves his family SO MUCH#and like it’s no accident that Leo is consistently the one to give pep talks that#very notably#are less ‘everyone as a group’ and more ‘all of you individually’#it’s heartening to see honestly and like#it works with how he is as both a person and as a fighter#he knows people he knows them so well he knows how they work what they’re like#which is SO USEFUL for subterfuge AND portal/teleportation strategy#my guy is charming his charisma comes from his understanding of people at an individual level#when he wants to be he is very very good at that#he’s still a teen who is too cocky for his own good at times but that does not negate his stellar other moments#he can be selfish he can be mean he can be rude but when push comes to shove he is so quick to stand up for his family#Mikey’s statement at the end of the movie about how Leo NEVER gave up on THEM is so important because it’s not JUST about the movie!!#that’s Leo as a whole he will never give up on his bros#portal jacked is telling of this too because although it has a lot of comedic moments#never once does Leo stop looking for a way to get his bros back#they’re everything to him#he’s the face man he’s a people person and he’s the number 1 pet turtle which I will discuss the implications of in this essay-#Will also say that when Leo does these moments of standing up for his bros he’s never expecting praise for it#he’s just glad they find Raph he just smiles when Mikey tells him he loves him he never mentions defending Donnie#leo has a tendency to show off fancy glittery moves but his real actions and feelings are sooo much more lowkey#that you have to be actively looking for them to catch them all#and I really really like that about him it’s so interesting HE is so interesting
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The idea that uni protesters are "elitist ivy-league rich kids larping as revolutionaries" on Twitter and Reddit and even here is so fucking funny to me if you actually know anything about the student bodies at these unis. Take it from someone who's going to one of the biggest private unis in the US, 80% of the peers I know are either from the suburbs or an apartment somewhere in America, children of immigrants, or here on a student visa. I've heard about one-percenter students, but I've never met one in person. Like, don't get me wrong, the institution as a whole is still very privileged and white. I've talked with friends and classmates about feeling weird or dissonant being here and coming from such a different background. But in my art program, I see BIPOC, disabled, queer, lower-income students and faculty trying to deconstruct and tear that down and make space every day. So to take a cursory glance at a crowd of student protesters in coalitions that are led by BIPOC & 1st/2nd-gen immigrant students and HQ'd in ethnic housings and student organizations and say, "ah. children of the elite." Get real.
#also idk how to tell you this but even if it were true. wealthy children potentially sacrificing their educational careers to protest is#a good thing actually. idk how to tell you that caring about people from other nations is good#personal#“this war has nothing to do with most students cuz nobody's getting drafted” idk how to explain to you that we should be angry#that our tuitions of 10s of thousands of dollars that we pay every year for an education is being used to fund a genocidal campaign#also the implication that if you go to a uni institution you are automatically privileged by participation no matter your bg#i didn't /want/ to go to this school. i was supposed to go to a school with an art/animation program. but i realized my immigrant#parents have been working their whole lives to get me here. and turning the opportunity down would be a disservice to their sacrifice#this is getting into convos of “what 2nd gen kids owe their parents” which is different for everyone but. yeah#i just get pissed off at seeing people misrepresenting student bodies as “wealthy” and “privileged” and “elite” when it's such a blatant li#i remember a year ago a friend told me they can't fly home to hong kong for winter break because the plane tickets are too expensive#so they have to find temporary housing around the area#last quarter for a film doc class my film partner made a doc on a small group of marxist grad students from india discussing praxis#during a rally a few months ago in response to police presence the coalition invited palestinian students to speak about their experiences#and lead songs and read poems they wrote. these are STUDENTS. are they elitist too?#this is not to disregard my own personal privilege either.#this whole narrative's just to rationalize a lack of empathy to me. seeing a 19yo student get shot by a rubber bullet and your first#reaction is “HAW! HAW! bet richy rich didn't see THAT coming when she put on her terrorist hood!”#newsflash. these big uni campuses are HAUNTED by the violence of past protests and revolutions and police brutality. we know.#why do you think these coalitions have been making reinforced barricades at record speed
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*sighs deeply* rip magnus fierro-chase and alex fierro-chase you would have loved being weird at reunions with percy chase-jackson and annabeth chase-jackson
#*bangs fists on table* chase fam content chase fam content#alex and percy's friendship is something we need to discuss as a collective#i will chew on this for headcanons but i think this should be a group effort bc I love them and want content#magnus chase#mcga#alex fierro#fierrochase#percy jackson#pjo#annabeth chase#percabeth#magnus chase and the gods of asgard
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Ok consider:
A new hero emerges and the Justice League watches him for a while who make sure he’s not a threat. They see this giant clumsy man who moves like he’s not used to his body, smiles goofily every time he saves someone, and is clearly inexperienced with his powers and they’re all just like. Ah. This is a child.
Except they don’t think he’s a ten year old or however old Billy is at the time, no no. Clearly this hero came into existence shortly before his first appearance, just a few months ago. They don’t know how or why but It’s not the weirdest thing they’ve seen so it’s pretty easy to believe.
But they can’t just leave this toddler with the powers of a god to stumble around and potentially hurt someone by accident, nor go down the wrong path and become a villain. So of course they decide to ‘subtly’ guide him without alerting him to the fact they’re onto him.
They introduce themselves but instead of inviting him to the league they pop by every once in a while to ‘subtly’ teach him about responsibility and power, but also about love and humanity. They try to teach him to enjoy life and that he doesn’t have to act like an adult around them, instead encouraging him to enjoy his childhood even if it’s not an ordinary one.
(Too bad the Justice League suck at subtlety.)
Billy is certain they somehow found out he’s a kid before they even met him, probably because of Batman’s freaky know-it-all powers, but he isn’t very worried as they seem nice and don’t treat him like he’s dumb or fragile. They respect him as a hero despite his age so he lets himself act like a kid around them after a while.
When he gets comfortable enough to detransform Billy thinks that’s his identity reveal. The league thinks that he magicked himself a body that’s more of a representation of his true self and fits his developmental age better, possibly as a way to blend in with humans and experience what it’s like to be a normal child. Good for him!
Basically Billy gets a bunch of super powered parents and the Justice League get a newborn man that they think they’re raising from scratch lol
#billy batson#shazam#dc#dc captain marvel#justice league#fanfiction#fanfic#dcu#Diana’s idea of subtly teaching responsibility is to attack him before ever introducing herself#Billy’s happily helping a cat out of a tree then sees a sword rapidly approaching his face held by a terrifying woman#it ends with them both getting ice cream and discussing his tactics#Clark was one of the very few reasonable ones and just gave advice#hes not very subtle though#I mean have you seen him? he’s the most recognizable figure on earth#he’s often spotted on rooftops sharing homemade sandwhiches with Marvel as a way to encourage him to take breaks and be social#Surprisingly the most famous group of people in America who do flips in colourful spandex all day aren’t exactly masters of subtlety#Bruce tried to do an irl trolley problem to see how he would handle it#it was rigged so no one would get hurt and all the victims were well paid actors of course#but Billy didn’t know that#he stopped the trolley with his bare hands#he didn’t even consider any other option#he did not go to school so he's never heard of the problem and didn't even realize there WAS another option#Bruce nodded approvingly but was honsetly kind of disappointed#he wanted to know how a toddler with above average morals would solve it the intended way#maybe he’ll try it on Jon next#My writing
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does near every single post-canon DE fic out there need to be tagged ‘Sober Harry Du Bois’? i’m getting so tired of it.
do i expect every single piece of fan content to have to fully delve into the often-depressing always-complex topic of addiction? not really. sometimes you just want to write/read a silly fluffy romance one-shot, whatever. i get it. but i think my issue is specifically with the fact that for nearly every sillyfluffy au out there, there almost must be a ‘sober harry du bois’ tag. and it does feel very slapped-on more often than not.
i think to me it is an unconscious statement that nothing *good* can ever happen to harry du bois until he is completely and permanently sober. before solving the next big case, he has to be sober. before quitting the force, he has to be sober. before falling in love with kim, he has to be sober. before accomplishing anything, starting any sort of recovery, making any life improvement, he must first be sober.
sobriety as a goal, as a journey, and honestly as a concept in of itself is not as cut and dry as so many people think it is. and i think it would serve a lot of people well if they did some introspection on the implications of how nearly every single post-canon fic that isn’t dealing directly with harry’s addiction have him as completely sober instead.
if the plot of the fic isn’t going to touch directly on harry’s substance use (and again, i’m not demanding that every single fic should), why does that mean that sober!harry must be the default?
i think i am just tired of reading a casefic, a smutty one-shot, a fantasy au, whatever, where it almost seems that before getting on with the plot, the author feels obligated to first assure us that the harry we’re reading about is a Sober Harry. it’s established with a couple lines in the exposition, probably about his improved appearance, a tag up top, and then never brought up again; a checkmarked box. like the societal image of An Addict has completely prevented people from being able to imagine a person just, continuing to live life, while still struggling with addiction.
life happens, with all of its backslides and achievements, mundanity and changes, to people with drug addictions just as much as people who don’t. is a post-canon harry who isn’t sober not worth writing about?
i think so. i think the game we all played thinks so too. in fact i think that sentiment is woven into the game’s very core. i just wish i saw that reflected in our fan content more.
#i really hope my point is understandable in that it isn’t that i think that stories where harry *does* become sober aren’t also valuable.#or that i want every post-canon harry to *not* be sober.#but rather questioning why there seems to be a subconcious necessity for harry to be sober to have kind things happen to him.#disco elysium#harry du bois#also obligatory because i am putting this in the main tag:#this isn’t a callout or vague on any one person/creator/group of people in particular#it’s more of a prompt to discussion on a very broad trend#one informed by insidious biases that live in all of us because we live in a society etc#that none of us are immune to but all of us have a responsibility to acknowledge#if there is goal to this post it’s to provoke introspection. not individual attacks#anyways i love quietly consuming fan content until something annoys me enough to make my own post about it#i do wish i Participated in fan communities more tbh especially this one i’m just shy lol#most of the time.#me talking
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Luo Binghe really was entirely too forgiving about the whole abyss thing. Y’all talk about how the peak lords must have felt going through hell and high water for Shen Qingqiu, just for the man to still end up with Luo Binghe? Imagine if Luo Binghe had friends and they knew exactly what Shen Qingqiu had done to Luo Binghe over all those years 😬
#svsss#anyways it still bothers me how the entire sect treat lbh#despite KNOWING sqq abused lbh even if they don’t know about the abyss#like imagine if lbh was your friend telling you about all this#and ending the story with ‘and i still want to marry him 🥺’#i’d be sending over every ‘how to know you are in an abusive relationship’ text i could find!#we would be discussing how low your self-esteem has to be to accept such treatment!#like this is absolutely wild!#(what’s even wilder is sqq also still tryna protect lbh while laboring under the assumption that lbh was destined to be a tyrant)#‘as long as he’s happy’ headass#I imagine that if both groups weren’t convinced that their friend’s partner was one wrong move away from putting their friend in a coffin#they’d have much to lament about together
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btw i will forever recommend just. refusing to engage in discourse. its free its easy and you literally arent missing anything LMAO - 99% of discourse on here is just on the most pointless petty shit that literally doesnt mean a single thing to anyone in real life (i am looking directly at you "pRo/AnTi" shippers), and the other 1% is genuinely important shit... that isnt going to be solved in any productive way by insulting '''the other side''' online. arguing with strangers online never changes anyones mind all youre doing is making yourself *and* your cause look annoying as hell :thumbsup: maybe chill out. find a hobby.
#dont even get me started on how apparently this entire fucking site has never heard of nuance in its life#im ngl dude i think if youre boiling down a complicated topic to 'well this is the good side (my side) and then the BAD EVIL SIDE'#and putting anyone who even slightly falls out of line with your beliefs on the evil side#like. thats not gonna be productive in the slightest right. you understand that right#if you wanna have meaningful nuanced discussions with people you actually know about serious topics then go for it!#just dont drag random strangers into it#if i have to see one more post with dumb bullshit acronyms that everyones expected to know that insults anyone who doesnt blindly agree wit#them i stg#'if you dont agree with this then clearly youre a [evil side] who hates [group] and does [bad thing]. theres no other logical explanation#for you possibly not agreeing with me'#and theyre talking about the most obscure insane discourse youve literally never heard of before thatll be flooding your dash for the next#month#had to unfollow a really good artist because they just kep reblogging the most aggressive 'every [evil side] sucks and hates [good side] an#doesnt care about them and wants to oppress them'#(said '[evil side]' wasnt even a moral stance it was literally just something you were born as. like. you get how thats fucked up right)#which uh. sucked! especially since i was part of that [evil side]#anyway midnight rant over tldr uhhh discourse stupid go get hobbies#and if i ever mention what discourse topic inspired this post ill probably get torn apart LMAOO#(hint: its one of the stupid pointless ones)#me.txt
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#im sorry communism daddy disney’s dick is just too enticing#i was gonna do a bunch of these but then i realized i am gonna Die at my lectures tomorrow if i do#this is like late uni AU like year four of med school and joy has been involved in a bunch of student activities and is like#a Well Known Presence#a term or two above anx#and anx had a Giant like celebrity crush on her but like could not even conceptualize them i. a conversation like in her mind this is like#idk kristen stewart hot gay gets-shit-done undeniable main character socially intelligent#and sometime year four she ends up in anx class and like Immediately has a friend group bc she knows everyone but also Immediately HATESanx#bc anx asks a lot of questions and wants to make sure she gets things right but is also just an Intense people pleaser#joy mostly dislikes that she disrupts the flow of the lecture. but they get into arguments in assigned discussion groups and that#NEVER happens for joy (actually it does a lot but it’s usually easier for her to defend her self-righteousness)#eventually she has a breakdown after a hospital placement bc she has some Serious issues w OCD and had to redo a whole term#they never really start ti hang out. but they do have wayy too unfiltered conversations in the maternity ward breakroom at 4am#art tag#inside out#io2#joyxiety#i know it sucks but im fucking knackered#inside out joy#inside out anxiety
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i was gonna ask if there was a dragon design in the show that is everyone’s favorite but then i remembered we’re getting tessarion and maybe dreamfyre so i’ll hold off. tbh i really love arrax even tho he’s only there for 2 seconds before he gets chomped, i liked his color. i hope we get a better look at silverwing bc i think she could take it, i love that she doesn’t have that old dragon gullet thing, i think it’s kinda funny. i wish we had more sunfyre i don’t think we really got a proper look at him. i think i liked sunfyre’s noises the best tho. special shout out caraxes for a cute ass noodle boy tho
#sunfyre and arrax are both girls to me so if i ever call them with she pronouns that’s why#i feel like that makes more sense narratively and i think if i said that to george#he would humor me enough to really debate it which basically means i’m right#getting on my soap box#i’m gonna rewatch the episodes i haven’t tho i want to refresh before the finale#i’m trying to think of a good question for another lil low stakes group discussion i love doing those it’s fun getting everyone’s input
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Gonna probably be in the minority here but I'm kind of frustrated that an entire tier was dedicated to a fan favorite. Don't get me wrong, I really like Logan. So I'm not criticizing his character in any way. The idea of him having a reason to show up is fun.
That said, if it's not a huge plot point and a tacked on thing, I wish they'd just use spare money or treat it like a DLC thing rather than dedicate a whole tier to it. If we get to Logan but we don't get to height sliders or something else, that's disappointing. Things more suited for the next game installment, that affect what goes into its development, I feel like is more important.
That isn't to say Logan wouldn't enhance a story. But if he's just visiting and is a side note for Evershine, why not just have it be a side thing and not take up a full tier? I'm using Logan as an example here but there are also other things on the tier list that has me feeling the same. As much as I love my Sandrock builder, I'm a little confused why narratively she'd show up. From what I've heard, at least.
This doesn't diminish my excitement any, of course. I've just haven't been able to click in my head why these are dedicated tiers vs dedicating those tier goals to Evershine-specific content. I know Logan is a fan favorite, I like him a lot too and the wild arc of 'if we thirst hard enough a romance will be born' was great. But I also know there are plenty of people indifferent, lukewarm or whatever else to him. So dedicating a huge tier like that instead of dedicating the funds to Evershine's other romance options or any of the other goals that affect it nore specifically is making me feel hrrm.
Not to be a buzzkill. I'm aware it probably sounds like I'm butthurt or something but it ain't that deep. I'm just opting to ponder on it here outloud because I don't want to ruin the hype over on the subs or in discord servers. :')
#probably also just not tagging this in case it's considered negativity#I don't want to generate that haha but i am still posting it here cause I'm open to chat or hear others thoughts#I don't really know anyone who plays my time in my personal friend group so an in depth discussion can't be found there#Feel free to ignore this though. I promise it's not meant to have a negative tone. In case text tone comes out weird ^^
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Something I appreciate about Hortus de Escapismo is how it portrays the Laterans and non-Laterans, especially in contrast to each other. Guide Ahead already gave us the angel ethnostate vs multi-racial heretics, which made for a pretty effective if blatant commentary on Laterano. And while it might seem Hortus is kind of repeating the same formula, I think it's got something subtler going on with interesting implications.
On one side we have the abbey's inhabitants: sankta, sarkaz and all other races--hell, even a seaborn for a moment. Are there cracks here and there? Of course, that's a whole plot point. But it can't be denied there is genuine camaraderie and self-sacrifice going on between these people who are simply trying to survive together (which is what makes those cracks all the more volatile).
Contrast this with the Laterans, who are dysfunctional as hell. Lemuen, Oren, Richele, and Spuria; I can't say I fully parsed everything happening between them on a moment-to-moment basis, but it was overall apparent that none of these people trust each other. Even though they're friends and classmates and colleagues, even though they're working for the good of the same state, even though they're sankta who can literally read each other's minds. There's just this constant mess of cahoots and conspiracy and treachery and bitter friction, and it takes the threat of an Innsmouth-Jonestown crossover event to get them to finally work together.
I thought it was a nice way to show more of Laterano's flaws. It's one of their core themes that they aren't as great as they say they are, but you'd think they would, at the least, have blessed harmony thanks to their literal hivemind. But evidently that isn't true either. And again, these are agents at the highest levels of the government. If they're this dysfunctional, what does that say for Laterano as a whole?
Which leads me into thinking about what the future of Laterano might have in store. I've seen some folks point out how these events have these greatly compelling premises that don't actually resolve any of the issues they bring up. Laterano only remains Laterano. And this is true! But I think it's intentional, setting up a slow burn of a regional conflict. The Lateran state is holding together, the status quo remains unchanged, the Law is content. But for how much longer? Guiding Ahead introduced us to the divide in Laterano on a broad level, the state vs heretics. Hortus de Escapismo shows the cracks within the state, narrowing in on individuals who nominally should be on the same side but aren't. The next logical narrative step would be seeing the state finally cracking apart from whatever looming danger the Law sainted Federico to deal with.
Some sort of schism, perhaps; that seems like the sort of existential threat that would directly threaten the Law's directive of preserving the Sankta. Law's awareness of it would also imply it's an internal threat, something festering in the hearts and minds of Sankta and thus one It's able to sense (at least that's what makes sense to me. We don't actually know how the Law works, so it could very well just have random magic prophetic abilities). And especially with the constant background pressure of trying to legitimize their Summit of Nations, what better way to drive that issue to the forefront by throwing Laterano into utter political chaos?
#arknights#a genuine schism would probably result in. so many fallen huh. would be interesting seeing laterano's community struggle with that#maybe the threat has something to do with the iberian church and seaborn? considering those were elements that appeared in hortus#and they were discussing a potential reconciliation between laterano and iberia too. reads like setup to me.#reaching out to iberia would be ripe for a widescale collision of ideologies that could lead to another schism#and for iberia it'd also be thematically relevant given their other estranged relationship w another glorious near mythical country#also i want to see the sankta face the seaborn. they're not so different if you think about it.#precursor tech hiveminds dedicated to the group's survival. one is hyperadaptive and ever spreading the other is conservative and insular.#so the ideological threat of a schism and the physical threat of the seaborn#...or maybe also the ideological threat of seaborn? they have their own church too after all#PAPAL SCHISM ARKNIGHTS EDITION. 3 POPES 3 POPES. LATERANO IBERIA WE MANY#oh uh and again a schism would result in so many fallen which could tie in the whole. yknow. thousand year race war w the sarkaz.#that's kinda super duper really important for laterano's themes#sorry i'm just writing a whole other post in these tags :P
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idk if it's because my mum worked in a tv magazine or what but all the media wars and backstabbing and stuff happening behind the cameras is so so interesting to me
#just saw what happened yesterday in la revuelta ojalá se muera el enano pelirrojo#so for non-spaniards here's a crash course on the situation (i could do a post about media groups in spain cause it's a lot)#there's this one late night show that's been on air for about 15 years called el hormiguero#it started fine (i used to watch it with my family when it started)#but soon there were some issues that people were seeing#especially concerning the presenter (who's also the head ofthe show) pablo motos#and his attitude with female guests he'd interview#basically being very weird and gross around them#apart from that in the last year he started to get very political in the show#he invited right and far right leaders while refusing to do so with the left wing#started making monologues at the beginning of each show critizising stuff the left had done or said#and finally included a debate segment in the show in which he invited liked-minded people to discuss politics#this has directly affected his audience. my dad is a fan of el hormoguero and i've seen him turn more right wing every year#so. last summer RTVE (national broadcast company) announced they were gonna do a late night show presented by david broncano#it's hard to describe everything here but basically broncano already had a late show called la resistencia in a streaming platform#it has always been very popular with young people and it is quite left wing#the new program made by RTVE was called la revuelta. it is exactly the same as la resistencia#before it started airing people were sceptic that broncano would be able to defeat motos' hegemony#BUT. ever since it started aiting in september it has consistently been getting more audience than el hormiguero#who would've known people were tired of the redhead bastard#anyways. apart from this. different celebrities on ppdcasts have been saying that in order to promote their product they are forced to go#to el hormiguero even of they didn't want to#there's also rumours of pablo motos blackmailing people (mostly comedians) who make fun of him#and now to what happened last night. i don't watch tv so i just saw it on twitter#broncano opened the show saying that they were sorty but they had no guest tonight#they had this one person but 30 minutes before shooting the people from el hormiguero had called him#he was originally going to go both to la revuelta and el hormiguero#but the guys from el hormiguero called him to tell him that if he went to la revuelta he couldn't go to el hormiguero#el hormiguero is bigger than la revuelta so. he had to cancel#broncano went on to say this had happened before and that's why he was talking about it
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More thoughts about the dynamic I talked about here:
It’s telling that the way Abigail engages with Hannibal re: Nick Boyle’s death is very different from the way she engages with Will about it (and by extension, that the way Hannibal engages with Will about GJH’s death is very different from how he engages with Abigail about Nick Boyle’s death).
That is to say, Hannibal’s initial, outward response to Abigail killing Nick Boyle is primarily disapproval - foregrounding what she’s most trying to conceal about herself, and positioning himself as a moral authority who’s making a considerable sacrifice to protect her:
Hannibal: This isn’t self-defense, Abigail. You butchered him. Abigail: I didn’t. Hannibal: They will see what you did. And they will see you as an accessory to the crimes of your father. Abigail: I wasn’t. Hannibal: I can help you, if you ask me to. At great risk to my career and my life. You have a choice. You can tell them you were defending yourself when you gutted this man. Or we can hide the body. (1.3)
Later, he changes tack and allows that Abigail did do the right thing and that self-defense is an excusable motive:
Abigail: You’re glad I killed him. Hannibal: What would be the alternative? That he kill you? (1.3)
And:
Abigail: In the dream, I wonder how I could live with myself, knowing what I did. Hannibal: And when you’re awake? Abigail: When I’m awake, I know I can live with myself. And I know I’ll just get used to what I did. Does that make me a sociopath? Hannibal: No. It makes you a survivor. (1.4)
This change in approach is partly by design, I think - his more condemnatory initial approach impresses on Abigail the worst possible interpretation of her actions (and hints at the fact that he can see through the front she’s putting up), in order to get her to trust him, and then gradually he starts to show qualified approval and emphasize her agency to move behind her father’s influence. And his emphasis on self-defense in their conversation at the end of Potage serves as a way of deflecting Abigail’s sharp inference that he might be a serial killer. But he consistently only approves of Abigail committing murder in utilitarian terms, rather than emphasizing any satisfaction Abigail might have gotten from it.
And the person who does validate that for her is, of course, Will, when they compare notes on killing her father vs. killing Nick Boyle:
Abigail: I thought there was something wrong with me, because I didn’t feel ugly when I killed Nick Boyle. I felt good. That’s why it was so easy to lie about it. Will: Like you didn’t do anything wrong. Abigail: Feel like you’d done something wrong when you killed my dad? Will: I felt terrified. And then… I felt powerful. Abigail: It felt good. To get to end it, to stop it all. (1.12)
They’re both nodding so vigorously by the end of that exchange, just fully understanding in that moment how the other is feeling. And significantly, Hannibal doesn’t set himself up as someone with whom she can unload those feelings on, or find that kind of understanding with! Obviously he doesn’t want to go mask-off about being a serial killer immediately, but he doesn’t even drop any hints with about the appeal of murder; and meanwhile with Will, where he’s got all his “it’s beautiful, in its own way” and “killing must feel good to God” and “not flesh and blood but light and air and colour” lines. Aside from his initial intimation that she had darker motives, his approach with Abigail is mostly affirming her best qualities, suggesting she’s not like her father and that she had no choice but to kill Nick Boyle. And Will ends up being the one to affirm Abigail’s darker qualities.
And, well - my sense of why Hannibal takes this approach is that he was hoping for exactly that. He wanted Abigail to go to Will with those feelings, to be drawn to Will because he offered a potential source of a specific kind of validation and understanding that she wasn’t getting from Hannibal - and thus, for Abigail to help draw out Will’s murderous impulses in turn. Just as he used the prospect of protecting Abigail to push Will’s sense of ethics a little bit farther out. They were both the bait, for each other.
#hannibal meta#abigail hobbs#hannibal lecter#will graham#hannibal#my meta#hannibal talk#there was some group chat discussion awhile back about how hannibal intended to make the murder family happen#before his hand was forced in putting will in prison#and while i'm sure he was playing it by ear#in terms of revealing himself and pushing the others into a place where they could accept him#i do think a lot of his plan relied on using abigail to bridge the gap between will's s1 ethics and what hannibal wanted for him
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exvangelicals/exmos who haven't deconstructed their cultural Christianity when you politely ask them not to shut down every discussion about (any) religion because of their specific trauma:
(Goyim can interact but do not clown, more info in the tags)
#ftr i also have christian trauma#i fell in with a very conservative catholic group and was pretty badly traumatized by them#accepting that i'm jewish and going through the conversion process that I've always wanted to#is part of my healing#BUT SO IS BEING OPENLY IN LOVE WITH MY NEW FAITH#and it drives me fucking insane#when exvangelicals and exmos#ix-nay all discussion about ANY religion because of their specific trauma. reminds me of atheists/anti-theists#exvangelical#exmormon#cultural christianity
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Honestly... I fucking love the romance in TMA. It made me let my guard down, even though I knew I shouldn't. The tenderness of it made the horror more visceral. And the ending so much more heart-wrenching because despite the fact that these two people have changed so much since we met them - enough to love each other - they're ruined by the same human flaws they've had since the outset. That Jon's betrayal isn't a descent into madness; it's just the guilt-ridden control freak that he's been since the very first episode. The flawed human that we've all come to love.
It's not perfect, but I think it enacts a similar technique to what Phoebe Waller-Bridge describes in her work (particularly Fleabag). That she uses the comedy to get her audience's guard down so that when the drama comes crashing in, we bear the full weight of it. The romance made me a more vulnerable audience, and I think the open ending felt both more hopeful and more tragic than if we'd never been given that tenderness to begin with.
I think... if I'd gotten balls-to-the-wall full-send avatar Jon, or a total descent into madness, I would have felt spared.
#the magnus archives#tma#tma spoilers#jon sims#I know throwing my hat into a discussion is risky#But my entire job now is to have Opinions about Texts and I just wanted to scream into the void about this one for a little while#before returning to my academic hovel#I don't participate much in fandom discourse anymore b/c I struggle with the whole in-group/out-group dynamic#that often accompanies a defined online fandom#but I do love me some Conversing About Texts
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