#when exvangelicals and exmos

[spale-vosver]

exvangelicals/exmos who haven't deconstructed their cultural Christianity when you politely ask them not to shut down every discussion about (any) religion because of their specific trauma:

(Goyim can interact but do not clown, more info in the tags)

[seraphimfall]

i mean this in the most non-cringe way, but i ship jesus and mary magdalene fr

[campgender]

Hey hello! Can you recommend any excangelical podcasts? I hope you are doing well!

tysm, i hope you are too❣️ there are a ton of podcasts in this sphere & i often cycle through periods of intense engagement & more distance, so these recs are a combination of luck & personal taste — there are artists & activists like kevin garcia whose work i’ve been profoundly shaped by & whose podcasts i just don’t click with.

i’m also going to mix in the exMo & other deconstruction podcasts i listen to because i’ve found both the emotional experience really relatable as a pastor’s kid & thus someone raised in a certain epicenter of cultiness, & also, because the 1800s politics it reflects are foundational to evangelical doctrines & values, too, Mormon history & theology can be super useful for understanding what were more unspoken beliefs in my upbringing.

exvangelical with blake chastain

a good way to find other artists but not something i listen to more than selectively

combination of reading political commentary essays from his blog (i find the sentence structure of this type of thing difficult to follow, especially out loud) & interviews with other podcasters / artists about their journeys & work

#BadTheologyKills with Kevin Garcia

Andre Henry, author of All The White Friends I Couldn’t Keep

mormon stories with john dehlin & the open stories foundation staff

john changed my life in high school as the first person i’d heard of willing to be excommunicated (largely) due to queer issues as an ally. i don’t always agree with his lens — he has a doctorate in psychology & more faith in the medical establishment than i could ever endorse — but he defends queer youth with his heart & soul & statistics and i have a lot of respect for him + his work.

combination of long-form (like, 3-10+ hours) interviews about people’s journeys in/leaving the church & political commentary / breaking news, usually in panel form, with some church history series with guests.

Ep 1442: Was I raised in a cult or high-demand religion? A self-assessment

Ep 1588: Noah’s Flood with Dr. Simon Southerton (I also recently finished a great book on this topic which i think was on his recommendation? The Rocks Don’t Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah’s Flood by David R. Montgomery; link goes to my review on storygraph)

REVcovery with justin gentry & rev sarah heath

i started listening to this one when it started because of justin’s other podcast (mentioned later), i find him really relatable in a lot of personality ways (things i associate in myself with being obsessive-compulsive) & i really appreciate the ways he relates those to Methodism, how that environment fosters + rewards those traits.

justin is also an ally who got fired from his pastoral position over being queer-affirming; sarah is an ally who ran an affirming UMC church before retiring from burnout.

there are two main reasons i like this podcast: the focus on (ex)pastors & the Methodist lens. similar to what i mentioned earlier, pastors are deeply “in it,” & i think the experiences of the hosts & their interviewees are relatable to a lot of people who were/are heavily volunteerized &/or publicized in church. like, by the time i was in middle school i was doing as much if not more church work as my dad (who was not a senior pastor at the time), so while some of their more “pastoral” experiences i can only relate to from a level of peer support, most of their discussions resonate directly

interviews about guests’ journeys, almost all (ex)pastors or other religious leaders + conversations between the hosts about a certain topic + practical advice like building a resume when your only experience is in church work

Episode 23: Pay Janice Lagata

Bart Ehrman, acclaimed New Testament scholar & former evangelical

the Bart Ehrman Blog Podcast hosts audio of select posts (his entire posting library is available for an annual fee his organization donates to charity)

a variety of his interviews & audio of his guest lectures can be found across various other podcasts

How Jesus Became God lecture (i also recently finished this book lol)

The Bible as Literature & Media lecture

Bad Words with Janice Lagata

she’s a former longtime unpaid worker in the upper levels of Hillsong

premise is “giving bad theology the read it deserves” — each episode discusses a chapter of a book reflective of evangelical theology/culture

she’s amazing but unfortunately i have trouble with the audio quality of her guests a lot of the time

her other podcast is God Has Not Given

Mormon.ish with Rebecca Bibliotheca & Landon Brophy

exMo & culturally Mormon news analysis & history

Rebecca does Mormon News Roundup which is sometimes cross-posted on Mormon Stories which is how i found her podcast, i find her style really easy to listen to

The LDS “Indian Placement Program” & Its Legacy with Native academic Dr. Elise Boxer (the blurb on the listing is accidentally from the wrong week but it’s the right audio)

LDS International Temple Building: The Same Controversial Playbook? with anthropologist Jason Boxer, about LDS neo/colonialism in Peru & how these tactics are then applied domestically

Go Home Bible, You’re Drunk with Tori Williams Douglass & Justin Gentry

started out with them doing drinking games to bible stories, now a mix of discussing bible stories or evangelical cultural phenomena, alcohol optional. more casual / laid-back vibe

gonna be a pedant for a second, honestly now that they do more cultural commentary eps i prefer those bc as someone who reads a lot of historical-critical biblical analysis it bothers me when they refer to the way they were taught / evangelicals teach the text as the meaning of the text, when there’s cultural/symbolic background they’re not aware of (in those instances; i’m not trying to say they’re uninformed or anything). particularly bothers me when it’s about a story from Judaism

Blessed Are The Binary Breakers with Avery Arden @blessedarethebinarybreakers

more Christian than ex but lots of trans guests + broad experiences of & perspectives on faith

Another Name for Every Thing with Richard Rohr

he’s a Franciscan mystic & panentheist (distinct & very different, as he reminds listeners often, from my pantheism lol)

this podcast discusses his book The Universal Christ, he has other audio projects

i hope some of those are interesting to / helpful for you! wishing you all the best xx

[follower-of-odin]

Guilt. It's not something I'm supposed to put any real religious stock in, as a Heathen.

On the other hand, Heathenry isn't what I was raised with. I was raised a Mormon, a member of a high-control religious group that uses guilt as a tool of control.

I was raised to believe guilt is necessary for any good person to have. A person without guilt would have no qualms hurting innocent people. A person without guilt would persecute Jesus Christ, himself, as he hung on the cross for all men's sins (sexist wording intentional; Mormons believe women sin, too, but they still roll with the "say 'men' when we mean 'humans/humanity/humankind'" business). Therefore, guilt is necessary to keep me on the straight and narrow; if I ever feel guilty about something, then, it must surely be because I am doing something I already know is wrong. The possibilities that the guilt is simply peer pressure; latent, ingrained social conservatism previously unaddressed; or simply trauma eating at me; any of which three would not mean I am doing something wrong, simply feeling pain even while I might actually be right; are possibilities which are not even entertained, let alone addressed.

Dealing with guilt, consequently, is not my strong suit. 10 years since I stopped believing in that cult, and about 6 since I officially left, I still can't deal well with guilt. Being a Heathen for 10 years hasn't freed me; but, then, I'm not a member of a Heathen community here, because I'm currently jobless and still living in a Mormon, if unorthodox and somewhat tolerant Mormon, household.

You know, that's probably why I have such a hard time with the whole white guilt thing. There's this feeling that I need the guilt to prevent myself from falling into racist, white pride bullshit; which seems twice as bad to my anti-racist-but-raised-Mormon self, because it's at once white supremacist, which is bad for obvious reasons, but also because it is pride, and pride is the enemy of humility, which is essentially another word for beating yourself up with guilt. That's probably what a lot of other exvangelical/ex-Christian/exmo anti-racists with white guilt are dealing with, too, if I were to conjecture; they have to be the opposite of who they once were, or who their former coreligionists/fellow cultists wanted them to be, yet they - we - also feel we have to supersede them, be better Christians than they were. We have to defeat their racist pride with racial humility, we think - racial guilt - but while racist pride is obviously harmful, racist guilt still keeps things all about ourselves, and not the people we think we're helping with our self-flagellation.

I really need to toss this guilt away. It's deep-set, though, but that doesn't mean I don't have to toss it away. It means I have all the more reason to do it.

Once things in this household achieve some semblance of stability again, I'll have to schedule another appointment or so with my counselor to talk about this. Haven't talked since we had a good scare about a month and a half or so ago. Just as well, because we're pretty close to losing everything. Best not spend too much time thinking about colonialism and stuff when I'm about to become homeless. My guilt isn't gonna help anything, especially if I become a beggar on the street.

On to business, then.

[lemuel-apologist]

I figured out recently that it's not just Mormonism and going to Mormon churches that makes me uncomfortable. I went to a megachurch to watch my cousin's end-of-camp program. I expected some skits, some poorly-done propwork. What I got was a sea of children in yellow t-shirts, standing just in front of the stage, chanting and singing and reciting scripture. Some of them were four. They did the whole "raise your hands to worship to this Christian pop song" thing and I thought I would be fine, but I wasn't. I can still find the spot on my hand where I dug my pen into the tender flesh there, over a week and a half later.

[actualmermaid]

Exmos sound a lot like exvangelicals. I found it useful to hang around exvangelicals online for a bit to have experiences validated, but after a while it started getting toxic because they also have such a black and white mentality and a hostility to anything from Christianity in general you find useful :P

YEPPPP

I follow dirtyrottenchurchkids on Instagram, and they're chill, but I see a lot of the same patterns in the comment sections.

I get that people who have suffered spiritual abuse carry that with them into the "real world," but like... get therapy, pop an edible, and watch some religion documentaries. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, either. A lot of people need therapy that they aren't getting, and when you're in that much pain it can be really difficult to see the beauty and nuance that's possible within religion.

[catsnuggler]

1-5?

I'm answering my own questions in response to this post.

Answers under the "read more" because this got long.

1. Do you identify as an apostate, exvangelical, ex-(denomination), heretic, or something else? I identify as ex-mormon (straight to the point), apostate (because that's what I am), and heretic because it sounds a lot more charged than apostate, in my opinion, even though technically a heretic is someone who is of a particular persuasion but refuses to accept the established religious dogma of that persuasion. In technical terms, I'm an apostate, but my dad, who is still Mormon but differs from the church radically in religious and political beliefs, is the heretic, not me. But, again, I just like the word. It brings to my mind an angry Crusader about to attack me, charging me with heresy and exclaiming that I'll be punished for my sins and treachery against the One True Faith - and to think of myself as an enemy of Crusaders is badass. Even though I'm really just some weak guy who sits around criticizing things.

2. How would you describe your current beliefs? Deconversion was as much a political as a religious process for me. I had to turn away from the liberal democracy at best, conservatism at most common, theocracy at worst political outlook of Mormonism, toward anarchist communism, which resonates best with my political desire for global liberation from both sociopolitical and economic tyranny. Additionally, the church is founded on colonialism, and warming up to decolonization is also part of my deconversion.

But this question is more specifically about religious beliefs, so, onto those: while most exmos are atheists, I'm a hard polytheist. I worship the Norse gods right now. I don't do so regularly, nor do I think they're the only ones deserving of worship; the idea that this or that god is unworthy of worship just because they're outside of ones tradition is an idea I've also had to reject. No, it's just that the Norse/Germanic gods are the ones I felt most pulled to. Generally, us Norse (neo)pagans/polytheists/"Heathens" also practice land worship and ancestor veneration, but given the settler-colonial context I'm part of, I'm still dealing with psychological as well as overarching political barriers with regard to such practices. The Norse god I feel most attracted to is Odin, although I do have to resist the "he's basically God" view that's been drilled into my head and is reinforced constantly by culturally Christian ex-Christian Heathens, particularly those of what we call "brosatru" and "(br)odinist" persuasions.

I've also had to unlearn a lot of antisemitism and islamophobia either directly taught as part of Mormonism, or otherwise commonly accepted in Mormon culture.

3. Have you gotten emotional support from friends in deconverting/deconstructing? Would you like more support? Have you found any online? Yes, yes, most definitely. The most support I got from @sleepyowlet. I can thank her for opening my mind up to anarchism, communism, and heathenry, while remaining respectful and understanding. I already had questions, she simply encouraged me and provided an alternative perspective, one which I ultimately found refreshing and made the most sense to me.

I haven't known too terribly many ex-mormons in person, though, and that would be rather refreshing and healing; bonus points if we've come to about the same politico-religious conclusions, yet still bear unique viewpoints to open the others' minds. That's more support I wish I had.

The /r/exmormon subreddit is somewhat helpful, and I'm also looking in the #exmo/#exmormon/#apostake etc tags on tumblr to find others to talk about this with.

4. Was any person, book, or something else instrumental in your deconversion? I don't like the guy, but... oh, hell, what was his name? The atheist with the talkshow, he's also an islamophobic asshole. Bill Maher, I think his name is? I saw a documentary by him that left me depressed and atheist for about a week, maybe two weeks? Which increased the questions I had. I was also already friends with a lot of atheists, growing up, so I was constantly exposed to non-mormon, non-Christian viewpoints. I mentioned Owly, of course. I haven't read many books. And, oddly enough, one of the most instrumental individuals to my deconversion is my Mormon dad. He is an odd duck, as previously mentioned, in the Mormon faith. He's very sad, because as I grew up, he taught my siblings and I all the bad things he knew about the church, but he did so to inoculate us so we wouldn't learn anyway down the road, with no previous idea of, say, how the Mountain Meadows Massacre really happened, and spiral into a faith crisis. He wanted to be living evidence that, though the other Mormons keep themselves blind and thoughtless, thinking that doing so is faith and righteousness, that one could be Mormon and still have a heart and mind. Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for myself, my older sister, and my younger sibling (not my older brother, though, as he is still a firm believer), his revelations to us led in large part to us leaving the church.

5. Who have you told about your deconversion/change in beliefs? I'm guessing this post is about people I know in meatspace, particularly close friends, folks still in the cult, and/or family members. My old bishop knows, one of the guys in the stake presidency who knew me back when we used to be in the same ward together knew because he was the one who fucking blabbed about me requesting my records be removed from the church to my dad, fuck you "Brother" [REDACTED]. Though I didn't tell him, technically, it just ended up in his lap after I got the lawyer to send the request, and breaching my request for fucking privacy, he told my dad. Asshole! Anyway. Anyway. Any fucking way. I've told my grandparents on my mom's side - well, bio-grandpa and step-grandma. Bio-maternal-grandma died years ago, one year after my mom died. I haven't told my dad's side yet, strangely, even though they live much further away and so I'm thus in far less physical contact with the convert side of my family than I am the pioneer side, who are just to the East/Southeast in Idaho, Utah, and a few in Arizona. I'm not sure how many I told I'm pagan, because I forgot, but they at least know that I'm not Mormon. I know I told my grandparents I'm pagan, though.

[spale-vosver]

About Me

UPDATE: Y'all lost anon privileges because you're too pussy to insult me and put a face to it.

I'm Geoff, a 21 year old history major and aspiring archivist. I use he/xe/xey pronouns, and I'm a crippled transsexual faggot converting to Judaism.

This blog, much like my interests, is very eclectic, and will largely consist of reblogs -- though I'm not opposed to making my own posts when the mood strikes.

I'm incredibly nerdy and love to ramble, so please don't hesitate to ask me about any of my interests! Said interests, along with more info and DNI, are under the cut. Also, please feel free to spam like and reblog, as well as message me!

* I am an adult

I'm 21, and will more than likely post adult content with NSFW text and subjects. However, I will never post explicit sexual content, gore, etc. This is your warning. Please keep this in mind if you choose to interact with or follow me!

* I'm disabled

I'm autistic, have ADHD, OCD, ARFID, BED, and OCPD. Physically, I have asthma, chronic leg and ankle pain that causes me to limp, dysautonomia, chronic fatigue, and suspected migraine disorder. I use identity first language (autistic man, disabled man, etc), and identify strongly with the cripplepunk movement. I personally don't care who uses the word cripple or identifies with the movement, but that's because I don't give a shit about slur discourse.

* I'm converting to Judaism

After five years of convincing myself out of it, I've begun the process of converting to Judaism, and will blog about it here. I have a sponsoring Conservative synagogue and will be beginning conversion classes in August. I will not share the name of my synagogue nor its location for obvious reasons. I do not and will not tolerate antisemitism, nor will I answer bad faith questions about Israel/Palestine. If you absolutely have to know my opinions, I'm pro-Palestine, pro-cohabitation, and politically anti-Kahanist and vehemently opposed to Likud and the Israeli government.

To my knowledge, I do not have any Jewish heritage -- both sides of my family are strongly Catholic and are from Ireland, Germany, and Poland. If there are any Jews in my family line, we either don't know about them or they converted to Christianity.

* I do not budge about my identity

I am a transsexual crippled faggot who supports dykes, trannies, cocksuckers, muffdivers, queers, fairies, aces, aros, and who, again, does not give a shit about slur discourse within the queer community. Don't try to start that with me. You will be blocked. I loudly and proudly support all good faith queer identities. Yes, even those ones.

* Interests

As mentioned, I'm a huge huge huge nerd! Right now I'm obsessed with Doctor Who (Five is my favorite), but I'm a big sci-fi/fantasy fan in general. I also love trains and sustainable urban planning and am prone to going on rants about the absolute state of train travel in America.

* Please ask me to tag things!

I'm really bad about tagging in general, so please ask me to tag any potential triggers! I will probably forget if I'm not explicitly asked. However, I will not tag any slurs that I can reclaim or use.

DNI

Exclusionists (ALL TYPES), antisemites/islamophobes/racists/queerphobes/ableists/bigots/etc, if you think queer is a slur, if you think minorities have to be "nice" or "polite" to earn your support, if you use "Zionist" to mean "Jew I don't like", antitheists, exvangelicals/exmos/etc who refuse to deconstruct their cultural Christianity, and probably more I forgot to mention. I'm not going to humor your shit. I will block you.