#i get that the point is to follow their logic to its logical conclusion like SEE THE EFFECT IS THE OPPOSITE OF YOUR STATED INTENTIONS
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a lot of people nowadays, when consuming media, do not have the ability to adjust their mindset and expectations on what should happen to the actual events of the story. people expect found family partially because they lack emotional immaturity or life experience.
i don't want to sound like a snob, but the popular fiction landscape is dominated nowadays by fanfiction or wannabe fanfiction- genre fiction that labels itself with ao3 tropes. you know the sort: cozy fiction, brandon sanderson type stuff, or honestly? if i see an anime genre in a native english language novel, like magical girls or mecha, i run. they are best suited to visual media for a reason. this is my personal opinion, so don't jump me for this, but these works don't tend to deal with emotional matters in a complex, subtle matter. when there is a romance story, you get a character who says "i hate this guy, he's kind of cute- i mean a BITCH." when someone suffers, their response is measured or defined in what angst trope do they respond with. they are cut and paste characters designed for emotional gratification, behaving relatively similar across the board regardless of how someone about the same age, gender and in the circumstances as those characters would behave. i could further go on about how how this in part stems from not really examining the culture and mannerisms of the opposite sex (and yes, i used the word sex, because it's important to analyse gendered socialisation when understanding how someone relates to their gender in present, cis or trans) to oneself when writing, but i digress. my main point is that the anime community tends to be bedfellows with those sorts of literature fans.
meanwhile, golden kamuy doesn't really have stock characters, aside from maybe shiraishi.
for example, sugimoto's a wanderer with ptsd, but there's no mystique or affected melancholy to his trauma, i.e. no real whump-bait. a less thoughtful writer would stop the brakes on the story midway to kick in the ye olde 1900s japanese therapy-speak and have him solve his issues that way, or have him cry and open up about his trauma regardless of him not being the sort of person to do that.
likewise, tsurumi's a manipulator, but he isn't a mustache twirler or a ragyo kiryuin clone- he's eccentric, charming and makes his men feel they owe him without him ever holding it over them. the actions he takes in the story create a logical conclusion of his men being loyal to him. a lesser author would have created a character who is a manipulator because they said so, even if in real life the character's men would all actually scared of him or would probably be offput by him trying to overstep their boundaries.
then, there are the characters who are 'useless', but are still present such as kadokura, kirawus, or vasily. we understand their emotional states, but equally that the main cast dont want or need to be their best friends; this making everyone feel real because it shows where the main casts priorities lie! kado and kira were certainly aware theyre werent pulling their weight compared to anji or ushiyama, but they didnt really give a fuck because kadokura had already did hijikata a massive solid with the prison break-in. meanwhile, vasily can't even speak japanese and followed sugimoto's group for the sole purpose of jumping ogata. he wasn't there to make friends and the story's not, at its core, about making friends, so why on earth would vasily end up being friends with sugimoto? gk respects every single character's agency and motivations more than making the reader feel warm and fuzzy.
however, when one doesnt think critically about characters and how their circumstances should impact them, it's easy for one to default to the mental comfort zone: tropes. likewise, when one doesn't spend much time in a highly competitive environment like the events of gk, they cant quite comprehend the fragile nature of the relationships made in those circumstances. so, to maximize emotional gratification, a somewhat friendly group now becomes a found family.
now the ogata issue starts when when the reality peeks through- ie, that every character bar asirpa has tried to kill each other at some point, the classic fanon 'fuck canon i do what i want' mindset kicks in. here's the thing- ogata is one of the only characters to which you really can't 'fuck canon' your way out of. even usami's quirky enough that you can easily box him in as the yandere sort, but ogata killed his mom, dad and brother over deep-seated daddy issues. it is very hard to defang the character into making him have the found-family appeal, especially as the story progressed and he went from weird quiet guy with sad backstory (which is still workable) to telling asirpa "do it pussy you won't." there is no way to turn ogata as we know him into an archetype fit for emotional gratification without removing a lot of what makes ogata ogata, as he would rather kill himself than show emotional vulnerability or change his mindset, so he becomes the odd one out when talking about the different groups in gk. thats what i think.
I mean... I am a person without a lot of attachments. I don't have a lot of trust in people, and I generally view people as simply everybody on their own path.
So then when I read other people's interpretations of gk, I'm often confused because I don't really understand where they're coming from.
For example, the idea of loyalty seem to be really important to a lot of other fans. Ogata is interpreted by almost everyone as a untrustworthy, with no loyalties.
But I don't understand why anyone in this story needs to have loyalties or why loyalty is even a good thing.
Everybody has completely different motivations and wants.
Tsurumi wants to split off a piece of the military, and use it to regain territory in Russia Where his wife and child are buried.
Hijikata says that he is looking to revive the Republic of Ezo, but actually he doesn't have the resources, or the time to do that so really he's looking for one last great battle and to die under that banner rather than to set up and new independent political entity.
Shiraishi has no real goals and just likes his friends and would love to get some money out of it. He later takes on Boutarou's goal.
Ogata has no real concrete achievable goal and is looking for an abstract sense of worth.
Sugimoto also has no real concrete goal and is using the gold hunt to avoid confronting the fact that he really has no place to return to. He says he has to get the money before he returns to ume, but this is just a prerequisite he set for himself, to delay returning. Ume isn't waiting for him, has no idea that he's out trying to get the money for her, and doesn't even know if he's alive. Despite all of the importance that he places on returning to her, he is a non-entity in her life, in the same way that Ogata is a non-entity in his father's life. The similarities and differences between Ogata and sugimoto is best left for another post.
Asirpa...... is a 12-year-old girl and is still trying to make sense of the world.
Many of the soldiers don't have any goals of their their own other than following orders or impressing their commander. People like Inenaga, ushiyama don't really have any aspirations for the gold. They just seem to be along for the ride since they have map tattoos.
My point is....
These are all clearly people with individual and completely different goals, to which the gold is just a means to an end. So I don't understand why loyalty is considered important, in fact I don't understand why it's a thing at all.
So given that ..... I don't understand why Ogata is considered a disloyal betrayer....
When I read comments by other readers, it really feels like there's an expectation that these groups be a found family of sorts. A place of trust and loyalty where people support and mentor each other and it makes no sense to me.
Like that's something you expect from the military. Members of the military are supposed to be brothers in against a common enemy led by a father figure and it is explicitly pointed out that this is not the case.
People bully each other, sometimes severely. The father figure is self-interested and the only sees his men as pawns. There are shifting loyalties and factions with their own goals in the same unit. The military is not a family substitute. Gold hunt groups are not a family substitute. Even family do not present the kind of loyal loving support that people seem to expect.
So I just..... I straight up have no understanding of why Ogata is considered to be a betrayer, because I don't understand how loyalty is a thing here. I mean to me, the very concept of loyalty in this story seems to be a lie used to manipulate people seeking identity and belonging, and have them be willing to die for the group.
When I look around on forums and discussions it seems like most people do not share this interpretation. People interpret media and events is through the lens of their own experiences. And I actually keep wondering if I'm missing something huge. Like if other people interpret loyalty in a totally different more meaningful way, what are their experiences that support this belief?
Just Curious
TLDR: this is not a story about found family as much as you want it to be. Instead it's about each person finding a place for themselves....not everyone is looking for a family.
Edit: I guess this is sort of meta. The reason I have this interpretation because I have a long history of working for corporations, and despite the found family culture that they try to create and all the team building exercises, people are constantly gunning for each other, trying to get people fired, taking credit for other people's work, making people look bad in front of management to elevate their own status, trying to jump ship and go to other companies in the same industry with proprietary knowledge... so my take on this whole story is that..."this is simply how people operate."
Like I've been on team building exercises with the company where everybody an outdooring trip and bonds over canoeing, and then immediately the next day people get back to trying to get each other fired.
That's just how people are. People form connections over all sorts of things, but that doesn't mean that they aren't out for themselves or that the connection will always exist, or that the connection is deep or that the person is loyal to you.
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unwarranted Cis Opinion but I'm getting really uncomfortable w people responding to bathroom bills by posting pictures of trans men like DO YOU WANT THEM IN WOMEN'S BATHROOMS
bc like. no they're men. they should be in men's bathrooms unless that feels unsafe. but. it really feels like it's not helpful to lean into the idea that seeing someone presenting masc or being read as a man in a women's bathroom means You're In Danger.
like I know several butch women and NB ppl who are really scared around being on T or getting top surgery bc they're not men and they don't want to be in the men's bathroom, and in that circumstance stuff like growing facial hair or reading more androgynously can be really fucking scary when people are being primed by propaganda to be on edge and hyperreactive to anyone who doesn't look like their idea of a Cis Woman.
and I'm not laying that at the feet of the people saying "hey uhhhh trans men are men and don't belong in women's bathrooms" bc it is not their fault. it's the fault of a concerted effort to make it difficult and dangerous to be trans or substantively gender nonconforming in public.
but at the same time idk I guess it just worries me cause sometimes it feels like "you fools! you are worried about this group of trans people bc you think they're the Lurking Danger of Men In Bathrooms? WRONG! the Men Making You Feel Afraid In Bathrooms are actually THESE trans people!" when in fact neither of those groups using the fucking bathroom is a problem. just piss and mind your business. people need to go where they need to go.
anyway this country is a hot fucking trash fire that somehow accelerates its descent into open fascism more every day so it's all super good and normal. so don't take this too seriously tbh cause it's somewhere near #2535654476457899009765 on the list of priorities for Queer Discourse right now when the fucking human rights commission is actively rescinding protections from trans people. Please ignore my gibberish.
#red said#i get that the point is to follow their logic to its logical conclusion like SEE THE EFFECT IS THE OPPOSITE OF YOUR STATED INTENTIONS#but a) the lawmakers already know this tbf#and also b) ultimately you still do end up making a lot of tweets that look very very very like the original scaremongering abt trans ppl#and transphobes and ppl who are unfamiliar with trans stuff alike have repeatedly and consistently demonstrated either an unwillingness#or an inability. to understand the difference btw a trans man and a trans woman.#and meanwhile idk it does feel like most posts like this are tacitly reinforcing the idea that you SHOULD be scared of masc-presenting ppl#it's putting so much emphasis on clockability. and the truth is not everyone using the bathroom does or should have to pass perfectly.#if a trans woman who looks like one of these trans men needs to piss. a woman with stubble and short hair and muscly shoulders.#SHE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO PISS IN THE WOMEN'S BATHROOM. even if she doesn't look like a cis woman.#if a trans dude looks like a girl he still doesn't belong in the ladies unless he personally feels the need to go there for his safety#if someone is not actively bothering you harassing you or treating you with aggression it's not really any of your business is it#maybe that's a trans man. maybe that's a trans woman. maybe that's a woman or dyke on T. maybe that's a cis woman who just looks masculine.#who gives a shit? a key factor in ladies bathrooms is that they have fucking cubicles. unless someone is making it your business it's not.#and if they are then the problem isn't that they're the Wrong Sex/Gender it's that they're behaving badly/disrespectfully/threateningly#which is also a problem when cis women do it!!!!!
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K so, Semblances are connected to Aura which is a manifestation of the soul yeah?
In Before the Dawn, the father of the villains confirms that one of twin's semblance was active in the womb throughout a good portion of the pregnancy
Meaning, in Remnant, fetuses have souls. Wonder how legal abortions are
Edit: just remembered Pyrrha had to unlock Jaune's Aura in V1, so does that mean someone cracked open a fetus's Aura inside the womb? Was Gillian strong enough as a cluster of cells to unlock it herself?? Wtf is this origin story???
#rwde#I don't think myers wrote this w the angle of prolife propaganda but hoo boy did he not think this plot through#(tho idk his politics so he could have subconsciously done it. this is the doctor who moon abortion episode all over again)#btd sucked so bad but what keeps snagging in my brain is that the whole thing that kicked off the twins monarchy scheme -#- the crown birthmark born to one every generation - was apparently burned into gillian???#and its NEVER FOLLOWED UP ON#like kudos to FUCKING COCO OF ALL PEOPLE for commenting on her enemy being BRANDED but why is it just the one comment???#idk who I'd go for first: the father or the brother. who's ego is inflated enough to justify burning their own kin?#and why even do it? i dont think myers would write jax and gill to follow the royal tradition of bloodline purity-#-so they couldnt rule together right? why even bother marking her if the crown would always go to jax?#and why cant a single rwby villain have a scheme that makes sense to some degree?#jax wanting remnant to get a little bit genghis khan is so fucking stupid and baseless. where is the logic behind it?#the best villains either do heinous shit for shits and giggles or they genuinely do have a point but came to the wrong conclusion#thats why tyrian and watts are the only decent villains post v3. theyre both in it for themselves and unapologetic abt it#jax and gill are just annoying. go join a fight club and leave vacuo alone kthxbai#anyway thanks for attending another episode of rwby has shit world building and even worse implications#yodeling into the void
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Not to be chewing at this bone forever but apart from, you know, the literal core facts of the case that Kalina (twice) gave the Bad Kids the crucial clue to uncover the conspiracy (and! killed! herself! to not be a threat!!), there's another point in her favor that she wasn't bad/working against Cassandra which keeps swirling around in my head;
during an old aCoC adventuring party Brennan mentioned one of the qualities he enjoyed about playing her as a villain was that she was always unrattled, just kinda scarily unflappable. And during that mall fight in jy she was just 100% rattled, Brennan described her as horrified (2x), stressed, panicked, and generally just RP'ed her in a way of a kind of frantic, desperate defence, up to the point she got shatterstarred and she got more scary-calm. The one point of contention of her role in the season was that she might've coordinated or orchestrated the attack in the Astral, as the IH assumed at the end of the season, but if that were so she would definitely not have emoted like that.
#dimension 20#kalina#fantasy high#dimension 20 fhjy#Brennan also never really indicated anything that it could've been an act either. It was just a DM giving their best RP performance.#and her other appearance during the season in Baron's Game was her trying to help the BK#And Cassandra in one of the final eps reiterating 'if my familiar; my shadow; said that then she prolly had a good reason'#1000% convinced Brennan improv'd that ending there and the only way I can see this story thread land on its feet (heh cat pun)#Is if Kalina is absolved because the IH's conclusion was wrong actually and literally everything points to that#but Ankarna was just happy to take it as fact because she doesn't like the cat.#And like if they take that story and run with it.. Cool!! Would make for an awesome story!! Do it!! Don't fuck it up!#Follow that thread to the logical endpoint that the IH get confronted with them getting Kalina kicked out (and claimed by another god?)#And realizing 'woops our mistrust got you disowned and hunted across the cosmos'#Begging god for Senior Year go with the followthrough that is both sensible and objectively correct#Rather than unsatisfying AND incongruent
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A.J Pollard’s biography on Edward IV was so cringe lol (generic; minor but frustrating inaccuracies; intensely judgmental at times and oddly dismissive at others while never considering the broader context; entirely diminished and trivialized Elizabeth Woodville as both queen and wife of his main subject in the name of "defending" her; created a false dichotomy between Edward and Henry VII’s styles of ruling and lauded the latter at the former’s expense even though Henry literally followed Edward’s example for the very things Pollard was criticizing Edward for; had a downright nonsensical and thoroughly misleading conclusion about Edward’s legacy & Richard’s usurpation that was based entirely on hindsight, Pollard's own assumptions, and the complete downplaying Richard’s agency and actions to emphasize what Pollard wrongly and misleadingly claimed were Edward's so-called 'failings', etc, etc)
I wanted to buy his book on Henry V but after reading this shitshow and the synopsis of that book, im guessing it's going to be 10x worse, so...no thanks
#history media#this was written months ago im posting it to get it out of my drafts#it wasn't necessarily BAD. it was generic and readable. but it was very disappointing and misleading and its conclusion was just nonsense#listen I have no patience for the dumbfuck idea that edward somehow had the ultimate responsibility for his own son's deposition because#of his 'policies' during his reign. like I said it's based fully on hindsight and entirely devoid of actual context. it's bafflingly stupid#literally everyone expected Edward V to succeed his father and 'both hoped for and expected' (Croyland's own words) a successful reign#Edward V's deposition was richard and solely Richard's fault lol this should not be difficult to understand#the reason Richard's usurpation was possible in the first place was bcause everyone expected E5 to succeed and didn't expect Richard#do to what he did. nothing would have happened without his initiative and decisions. it had nothing to do with Edward's 'policies'#Edward's policies were fine. henry vii - who pollard vaunts to no end - literally *followed* them#and claiming that he failed to unite England under the Yorkist dynasty is just plain stupid#buddy if he truly failed at that then neither Richard III nor Henry VII would have thrones lol. both emphasized continuity with#him when aiming for the throne. like the whole point of 1483-85 was that it was a conflict WITHIN the 'Yorkist' dynasty#it was not an external threat against it.#'his legacy failed' his legacy didn't fail his brother destroyed it (while also presenting himself as his heir because logic what's logic?)#henry's victory was very much the triumph of his legacy (a claimant chosen by his supporters as the husband of his daughter)#like this is really not my interpretation it is literally what happened#i'm not trying to glorify e4 but his son did inherit the throne in a more advantageous circumstances than any other minor king of england#and frankly than most other adult kings. dumping blame on Edward's literal corpse rather than acknowledge Richard's agency is so tasteless#the problem isn't that edward made a mistake in trusting his brother. many other kings including Henry V also trusted theirs.#the problem is that his brother was willing to break that trust in a way that was unprecedented and broke all political norms of that age#ie: Richard's usurpation occurred because of Richard who re-ignited conflict to make himself king. please drill this into your head#also btw this illogical 'interpretation' is based entirely on Charles Ross' hatred and derision towards Elizabeth Woodville and her family#if you agree with this inteterpretation you agree with his vilification of them 🤷🏻♀️#anyway if you want a better interpretation that's actually analytical and looks a relevant rather than a flawed retrospective perspective#i would recommend rosemary horrox's 'richard iii: a study of service' and david horspool's 'richard iii: a ruler and his reputation'#anyway one last time: STOP downplaying Richard's agency and actions. historians who do this are stupid and embarrassing. bye.#(i should really post horspool's glorious takedown of ross and Pollard huh? it was very entertaining to read)
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Wifed up
A/N: im trying this type of thing out, but what happens if the JJk men saw you without your wedding ring? (tbf, im sure this has been done by others before, i sure as hell aren't the first to write this, won't be the last.)im genuinely so scared of posting this lmfao, okay but anyways
Characters: Nanami, Gojo, Geto, Toji, Sukuna, Shiu. (in said order)
For Choso and Hiruguma: Wifed Up
Nanami:
Nanami almost got whiplash when he noticed the ring—your wedding ring, for heaven’s sake—wasn’t on your finger.
But when he stepped through the door of your shared home, grocery bags in one hand, jacket slung over his arm, and caught sight of your bare hand…well, he nearly dropped the tomatoes.
It wasn’t like him to jump to conclusions—he prided himself on logic, on maturity. But standing in the doorway of your shared home, the scent of vanilla and butter wafting through the air, his heart skipped a beat for all the wrong reasons. He could see you through the archway leading into the kitchen, flour dusting your forearms, a faint smear of chocolate on your cheek.
You looked radiant, as always. But the empty space on your left hand? That detail stood out sharper than a curse in a crowd.
Nanami’s mind, traitorous for the first time in years, whispered an awful thought: Was she hiding it? Why? What if she’s inviting someone else over while I’m at work?
He hated the thought. Hated that it even crossed his mind. But he was only human—humans with hearts could be irrational, especially when they cared so deeply.
The seconds stretched, but his mind was already racing. His rational side kicked in almost immediately, reminding him that you were probably just taking it off while baking—something harmless, right? You’ve always done that. It’s just a ring.
But... It had been a conversation in the office that kept nagging at him all week. His coworker—someone he’d known for years—had just found out that his wife of ten years had been cheating on him. The betrayal had rocked him to his core, and for the last few days, Nanami had been wondering how something like that could happen. His mind lingered on the idea that a partner could hide something so big, and the doubt, for just a second, crawled into his own relationship. What if you were hiding it too?
He shook his head. Get a grip, Kento. Still, he couldn’t quite quell the question lingering at the edge of his thoughts.
“Y/N,” he called softly, stepping closer.
You turned, a bright smile lighting up your face.
“You’re home early!” you exclaimed, wiping your hands on your apron.
“I am,” he replied, voice steady, though his sharp eyes didn’t miss the bare ring finger you so casually flaunted. “Where’s your ring?”
Your eyes widened in realization.
“Oh, that!” You laughed, waving a hand dismissively. “I took it off while baking. Didn’t want to get dough all over it. It’s right over there.”
You pointed to the windowsill by the sink, where sure enough, both your engagement and wedding rings sat neatly side by side.
Relief flooded him so fast it almost made him dizzy. He nodded, keeping his tone light. “I see. I suppose I should’ve known you wouldn’t be that careless with it.”
“Careless?” You scoffed, playfully offended. “I’m meticulous, thank you very much.”
He smiled faintly, his heart settling back into its usual rhythm. You stepped closer, your grin turning mischievous. Before he could react, your flour-dusted hand slapped his backside with an audible smack.
Nanami froze, incredulous, as you dissolved into laughter.
“There,” you declared between giggles. “I marked my territory. Now wash your hands and help me.”
Nanami followed you after gently folding his jacket over a chair and loosening his tie. He slipped off his own wedding ring and set it carefully beside yours on the counter before rolling up his sleeves. For the next hour, the two of you moved seamlessly, kneading dough and rolling croissants together. The air filled with the warmth of the oven and the soft melody of your laughter.
By the time the pastries were golden and flaky, Nanami leaned against the counter, his hand resting on your lower back. The soft touch quickly turned into something more as his lips brushed your temple, then your cheek. You turned to meet him halfway, mouths molding together in a kiss that deepened quickly, his hands firm against your waist.
Nanami’s lips were warm and urgent against yours, every brush of his mouth sending a shiver down your spine. His hands, once gently resting on your waist, now gripped you tighter, pulling you flush against him as your body aligned in all the right ways.
You could feel the heat building between you, your chest pressed against his as your hands worked on the button of his shirt with determination, your fingers fumbling only slightly as you pushed him further against the counter. He groaned against your lips when you tugged at his tie, undoing it with quick, practiced movements.
“Someone’s eager,” he teased, his voice low and rough, but the words disappeared as your lips traced the edge of his jaw-his perfect jaw, your teeth grazing the sensitive skin of his neck.
“I’ve been waiting all day,” you murmured, hands sliding down to the waistband of his pants. His breath hitched when you unbuckled his belt and slid your hand inside, brushing against him with the kind of intention that made him gasp, his body instinctively bucking into your touch.
You grinned against his skin, the heat of the moment clouding your mind. This wasn’t just about passion—it was about claiming him, showing him with every touch that he was the only one. You slid your hand lower, your fingers grazing him with a teasing pressure that made his breath quicken.
“You’re the only man I need, Nanami Kento,” you whispered, meeting his eyes as you pulled him closer, grinding your hips against his. The friction had your pulse racing, a primal need building in the pit of your stomach.
His hands gripped your hips, pulling you even tighter against him as he kissed you again, this time with a desperation that matched yours. His lips were insistent, almost possessive, as his hands slipped under your shirt, his thumbs brushing against your skin in a way that made you shiver.
The air was thick with heat, your body aching with want, when suddenly—
DING!
The oven timer went off.
You both froze.
The croissants.
“Oh no—!”
You shoved away from him with a frustrated gasp, already heading toward the kitchen, but not before you shot him a glance. “You’re so distracting!”
Nanami watched you, his chest rising and falling as he tried to steady his breath. His eyes darkened with amusement, and he chuckled, running a hand through his hair.
"We'll finish this later, don't worry."
Gojo
Gojo’s feet dragged heavily as he entered the apartment, the door clicking shut behind him with a soft, final sound. The weight of the mission still hung over him—bones aching, mind buzzing with residual adrenaline.
He didn’t want to think about the cursed spirits he'd just fought or the cursed techniques he'd barely been able to avoid using in full force. All he wanted now, all he craved, was the soft familiarity of home.
And you.
His wife.
There you were—curled up on the couch, your form relaxed and peaceful, your face lit by the flickering light of the TV screen. It looked like you'd fallen asleep while watching something, your body sinking into the cushions, soft and beautiful.
But then—
His eyes narrowed.
His eyes immediately fell to your left hand.
Empty.
No wedding ring. No engagement band.
His heart skipped a beat. For a moment, the rest of the world disappeared. The weight of exhaustion, the tightness in his chest, everything—it all vanished in the face of that empty ring finger. His mind instantly went blank, and then... panic.
Where the hell is it?
A thousand questions shot through his head at once, each one more suffocating than the last. His mouth went dry, and he stepped closer to you, his mind reeling. It didn’t make sense. You’d always worn your rings, no matter what.
During the mission he hadn't used his Six Eyes and scan everything in the house, to check on you, but.... He’d been distracted. Too focused on that cursed mission, on the job, on things he shouldn’t have let slip.
His eyes flicked back to your hand, that empty space where your ring should have been. His mind spiraled further into dark thoughts.
She... She took it off? But why?
His heart thudded painfully in his chest. Was this it? Had it finally happened? Was this the moment when everything changed? When you... left him?
He couldn't breathe. He couldn’t think.
Did she meet someone else?
His pulse quickened at the thought. He wanted to scream, to shout, but the silence around him felt suffocating. Every step closer to the couch felt like a thousand pounds pulling him down. He stopped in front of you, staring at your unconscious form, the way you seemed so... peaceful, like everything was fine.
But it wasn’t.
What the hell is going on?
It was almost like a switch had flipped inside him—like something deep within him, something raw and protective, had been triggered. His anger, his fear—it boiled over. It had to be something. She wasn’t just going to forget her rings.
His voice was low, rough, as he bent down close to you, his tone colder than he meant it to be.
"Hey," he said, almost a hiss. "What the fuck is going on?"
His heart clenched at the coldness of his own words, but his fear was all-consuming. He needed answers. Now.
You stirred, your eyelids fluttering open at the sound of his voice, but it was the confusion in your gaze that stopped him for a second. For just a moment, it was like the anger and fear drained out of him, replaced with a spike of guilt. This wasn’t the way to approach you. He wasn’t supposed to be... scaring you. But he couldn’t help it.
What if I’m losing her?
You blinked up at him, your vision still blurry from sleep, but the panic in his eyes didn’t go unnoticed.
"Satoru...?" Your voice was soft, laced with that sweet, familiar confusion he loved. The panic in his eyes, the intensity in the way he stared down at you—it wasn’t the Gojo you were used to. He looked almost... unhinged.
Your heart thudded in your chest as you pushed yourself up slowly, feeling the exhaustion still clinging to your body. There was a fleeting second of fear that rose in you—this wasn’t how he usually acted.
What’s going on?
The man who had always been the first to laugh in the face of danger, the man who could break down any barrier with a joke or a smile, was now standing there—almost trembling. This was no playful teasing. No, there was something else in the way his body stiffened, the way his voice cracked with uncertainty.
His voice was a harsh, cold rasp as he bent down closer, demanding answers he wasn’t sure he wanted.
“What the fuck is going on?” He tried to keep his voice from trembling, "Where’s your ring?"
"Huh? What are you talking about?" Your hand instinctively went to your finger, but it was bare. You frowned. "Oh..." The fog of sleep was lifting now, and the look on his face was making your heart race.
But before you could even say anything else, Gojo’s eyes narrowed, and he straightened up, suddenly tense.
"I’m not playing games, [Y/N]." He could feel the anger bubbling up again, his breath coming faster. "What the hell is going on? You’ve been in this house, and now you’re not wearing it? Are you seriously gonna tell me it’s some accident?" He gestured wildly, his frustration impossible to hide.
You recoiled slightly, caught off guard by his tone. The fear in his voice, the desperation that edged every word, it hit you hard. He was scared.
But you could feel it, too. You could feel the rage he was hiding beneath his frustration, the doubt gnawing at him, the belief that something was wrong—that he wasn’t good enough to keep you.
The thought almost made you ache. You couldn’t believe he’d think that. Gojo Satoru, the strongest sorcerer, so terrified that his wife had... what? Cheated on him?
"Gojo," you whispered, your voice trembling. "I didn’t—I didn’t take it off for any reason like that." You looked at him, trying to calm his rapid breath. "I was cleaning the bathroom earlier... with bleach. I didn’t want to risk damaging the rings, so I took them off and put them in a little dish in there while I worked. I... I must’ve forgotten to put them back on after I collapsed on the couch."
The explanation was so simple, so mundane, that Gojo felt an overwhelming rush of relief flood through him. He closed his eyes and sank back onto the couch, rubbing his face with both hands.
You were just tired.
You hadn’t been out with someone else. You hadn’t thrown away everything they’d built together.
His mind had created a monster out of nothing. He had jumped to conclusions because he was weak, scared of losing the only person who mattered. He wasn’t used to this kind of vulnerability, and yet, here he was, completely unraveling over the thought of you slipping away from him.
"God," he muttered, voice breaking slightly. "I thought you... I thought I wasn’t enough for you. That maybe you'd—"
"Stop," you cut him off, pulling him close with a soft tug on his shirt. You pressed your forehead to his chest, feeling the tension in his shoulders. "Don’t even think that, Satoru." You wrapped your arms around him, grounding him. "You’re my everything. I wouldn’t throw that away."
Gojo’s arms tightened around you, his face buried in your hair as he exhaled a shaky breath. For a moment, neither of you said anything. Just the sound of your breathing and the rhythmic beat of your hearts.
When he finally pulled back, he cupped your face gently, his blue eyes searching yours with a mix of relief and affection. A small smile tugged at his lips.
"Next time," he said softly, almost shyly, "just leave a note. Like, ‘I’m cleaning and definitely not inviting other men over,’ so I don’t go insane."
You rolled your eyes playfully, but you couldn’t help but laugh. "Yeah, I’ll do that."
Gojo pulled you back into his arms, this time much softer, as if the whole world could melt away in this moment. He could feel his heart finally steadying. You were here, you were safe. The rest of it didn’t matter.
He kissed the top of your head, whispering softly, "Just promise me one thing, okay?"
You looked up at him.
"Never scare me like that again."
You smiled, a soft, sleepy smile, and nodded.
"I promise."
Geto:
The last thing on your mind was the delicate gold band around your finger, the symbol of your marriage to Geto, which you had carefully removed so as not to get it covered in dirt.
Geto paced through the entrance, his brow furrowed with a mixture of frustration and curiosity. After being away on business for a few days, the first thing he was told upon his return was that something had happened with you—his wife—and that you weren’t wearing your wedding rings.
Before he could utter a word, one of his cult followers had nervously approached him, eyes wide with anxiety.
"Master Geto... We... we noticed the absence of her rings. The lady—"
"Where is she?" he snapped, his voice low, yet carrying an unsettling edge.
His follower hesitated for just a second before pointing toward the garden. "She's there, with your daughters."
Geto’s heart skipped a beat. He clenched his fists, a flood of emotions threatening to overtake him. Did you really... no, he refused to believe it. You couldn't be removing your rings over something so trivial.
He strode quickly, irritation bubbling beneath his calm exterior. As he reached the garden, the sight before him stopped him in his tracks.
There you were, kneeling on the soft earth, laughing as his daughters ran circles around you, their giggles filling the air. You were covered in dirt from working in the garden all day.
You glanced up and saw him standing there, eyes dark with unspoken words. He was staring at you with a strange intensity.
“Suguru,” you said, wiping dirt from your cheek, and then you noticed the look in his eyes. His pupils were dilated, hands gripping the edge of the stone wall with white-knuckled intensity. “What’s the matter?”
His gaze dropped to your bare fingers before snapping back to your face.
"Why are you not wearing your rings?" he asked, his tone colder than usual.
You blinked. The question caught you off guard, and a wave of amusement flooded over you.
“What?” you asked, incredulity mixed with humor. "I just didn’t want to get them dirty. I’ve been in the garden all day with the girls.”
His eyes narrowed in disbelief. "You think I care about that?" His voice rose a little, frustration bubbling to the surface. "You don't understand... how much it means to me—"
You stood up slowly, brushing your hands off and laughing softly. “Suguru, calm down. You’re acting like I’ve sold the rings for magic potions or something,” you teased, holding them out to him with a playful grin.
The sudden tension in the air seemed to break with your words. He stared at the rings, then back at you, his expression wavering between annoyance and relief. He wasn’t sure whether to be mad or laugh at himself for overreacting.
But when you walked toward him, digging in your pocket, then placing the rings back on his hand with an amused smirk, he couldn’t help but release a breath he didn’t know he was holding. His arms pulled you into a tight embrace, his chin resting against the top of your head.
"I was worried, okay?" he muttered. "I've done so much for you, and I... I couldn’t figure out what was going on."
You snorted, wrapping your arms around him. "You’re a disaster sometimes, you know that?"
"I’m just... protective," he mumbled, his voice now laced with a touch of vulnerability.
"You’re sweet," you said, smiling up at him, "but a little too protective for your own good sometimes."
He rolled his eyes but couldn’t stop the small, tender smile from forming on his lips.
“I can’t help it when it comes to you... And these,” he added, tapping the rings, “are more important than you realize.”
You chuckled softly, your fingers tracing the edges of his rings.
"I know, Suguru. But I’m not going anywhere. I just didn’t want to ruin them in the dirt. I still love you just as much."
His hands gently cupped your face as he gazed down at you. “I know. But if you ever take them off again, make sure I’m there when you do."
You raised an eyebrow. “You want to be the one to take them off for me?” you teased.
A smile tugged at his lips. “Maybe I’ll start taking them off myself, then.”
You laughed, reaching up to kiss him lightly on the lips. His arms tightened around you, the world outside of the garden fading into the background.
Your laugh echoed in the air, soft and sweet, as the tension between you melted into a comfortable warmth. Suguru leaned his forehead against yours, his breath a little ragged from the release of his worries.
"You're impossible, you know that?" you whispered, pressing your lips against his.
"Only when it comes to you," he replied softly, his smile genuine and fond. "But I love you anyway."
Toji:
It was a late afternoon when Toji returned home, exhausted but relieved to be done with another job. He stepped into the quiet apartment, the faint smell of Megumi’s favorite snacks still lingering in the air. It had been a good day for the boy, he’d told Toji earlier that he’d had fun at the park with you.
Toji was just about to toss his jacket aside and relax when something on the bathroom counter caught his eye. His wedding ring. But... not hers. Her band was sitting alone next to the sink, glinting in the dim light, empty.
His heart skipped a beat.
His stomach twisted. He couldn’t breathe for a second.
He picked up her ring, turning it over in his hands as if some answer would magically appear. But nothing came. The silence in the bathroom was suffocating, and his chest began to tighten as his mind spiraled into chaos.
She wouldn't... But the thought was there, like a seed growing inside him.
Shit. Not again.
It had happened once before—his ex, the woman who had broken his trust in ways that still haunted him. That memory burned his skin like acid as the anger surged through him. He could feel the old rage coming back, the bitterness of betrayal cutting deeper than ever before.
He paced in a circle, trying to make sense of it. His mind raced—had she really gone that far? Were they just another statistic, another couple destroyed by his own mistrust? He couldn’t imagine it. Not with her.
But there it was: the absence of her ring. What else was he supposed to think?
His hands trembled as he grabbed his phone, fists clenching around it as he typed out a text to Shiu: She’s gone. I fucking knew it. Packing. She’s been seeing someone else.
The words were harsh, but they felt right in the moment. The ring was gone, the reminder of what they had was now nothing but a cruel joke. He stormed into the bedroom, ripping open the closet doors. His mind was working too fast to think straight—he started shoving clothes into a bag, his chest tight. He should have never trusted her. Never allowed himself to be vulnerable.
He allowed her to become a stepmother to Megumi, let her get close to his son. And now, this. How could I be so stupid? he thought bitterly.
Toji’s blood boiled, and his mind spiraled further into the pit of grief and disbelief. He’d let his guard down, let her become a part of his life, a part of his family, and now this? He slammed a fist against the wall, shaking with fury.
An hour passed. He didn’t care. The world outside continued as usual, but in here, in his heart, everything was falling apart. He couldn’t do this again. He wasn’t going to let someone else ruin him.
Then, the sound of the door clicking open interrupted his spiral.
He turned, eyes wild, ready to unleash all of his pent-up rage.
And then he saw you. Megumi was holding your hand, looking at him confused, but his gaze didn’t linger long on the kid.
“Is everything okay?” she asked cautiously, eyeing the half-packed bag by the door.
"Where the hell is your ring?" Toji's voice was low, laced with the venom he was trying to suppress. He crossed his arms over his chest, staring her down. "Where's your fucking wedding ring?"
She blinked at him. "What?"
Toji's glare didn’t soften, and he lifted her ring from the counter, letting it dangle between his fingers. "I thought we were past this bullshit. Thought you’d at least have the decency to—"
She deadpanned, and without a word, raised her hand to his face. His eyes followed her hand, expecting some gesture of defiance, some excuse. But then he froze, seeing the bandaged pinky and ring finger on your hand, the fabric wrapped tightly in place.
Your gaze was flat, your voice devoid of humor as you stated, “I didn’t want to lose my damn finger. It’s swollen, and I couldn’t take the risk of it getting worse. I thought you’d be worried about that.”
Toji stared at your hand, feeling the rage that had consumed him moments before start to fade, replaced by a dull ache in his chest.
“You—” He couldn’t even form a coherent sentence. He dropped your ring back onto the counter, as if the weight of it suddenly felt too much.
“Shit,” he muttered under his breath, his head lowering, suddenly feeling like a fool. His fists unclenched, and he rubbed the back of his neck. He couldn’t even look you in the eyes right now, but his voice cracked with regret. “I thought... I thought you were—”
"Cheating on you?" You finished the sentence for him with a quiet, amused tone, raising an eyebrow. You slowly walked over to him, your expression softening.
“Yeah,” he said, unable to hide the embarrassment in his voice. “I fucked up, huh?”
You chuckled, shaking your head.
“Toji... really? You thought I was gonna leave?” You scoffed and rolled your eyes, “I’ll make you dinner, okay? Just... next time, try asking before packing your bags.”
He let out a defeated sigh, finally lifting his eyes to meet yours. “Yeah, yeah. I overreacted. I’m sorry, sweetheart.”
You kissed him... which quickly turned into more, until:
"Ew."
You broke the kiss, laughing lightly.
Sukuna:
It was an ordinary day at the palace—at least, that’s what it seemed like. The sun streamed through the large paper windows, casting a soft light on the traditional tatami mats, where you were seated, diligently working on your calligraphy with Uraume. The brush glided over the paper as the delicate strokes formed beautiful characters, ink staining the tips of your fingers as you focused.
Your wedding ring, that simple yet precious band that bound you to the King of Curses, was nowhere to be seen. It was placed on the nearby wooden table to avoid smudging ink on its gleaming surface.
Sukuna’s voice broke the silence.
"Where is it?"
The low, thunderous tone could only mean one thing: Sukuna was furious. His eyes—four of them—narrowed as they scanned you, focusing on your left hand where the ring should’ve been. His breath quickened as the pressure in the room thickened.
Uraume, sensing the tension, stepped back slowly, not daring to make a sound. You, however, remained seated, doing your best to hide the small smile tugging at your lips. You couldn’t help it—Sukuna? Jealous? Oh, this was going to be entertaining.
"What are you talking about?" you asked innocently, not lifting your gaze from the ink-stained paper.
"The ring, woman," Sukuna growled. "You know exactly what I mean. Where is it?" His voice shook with a barely contained fury as he approached.
You could almost feel the heat radiating off of him. The air around him crackled with murderous intent, but it was impossible to ignore the mix of frustration and… confusion? Ah, he didn’t know what to think, and that only made it funnier.
"I left it off for now," you replied casually, trying to mask your amusement. "I didn’t want to get ink on it while I was working with Uraume."
"Don’t lie," Sukuna hissed, his four arms crossing tightly in front of him. "You’re telling me you, a lowly human, can’t even remember where you left your precious wedding ring?" His voice was cutting, sharp as a blade.
You almost snorted, but you swallowed the laugh just in time. Oh, Sukuna really was something else when he was jealous. The sheer audacity of him to think you’d even remotely be unfaithful was beyond hilarious.
You stood up slowly, turning to face him as he loomed over you like an ominous cloud. His eyes were wild, like he was ready to destroy everything in his path.
"Is that why you’re so upset?" you teased, the corners of your mouth curling up. "You really think I would take off my ring to… go play around with someone else?"
Sukuna’s gaze flickered. His four arms twitched as if to lash out at you, but he held himself back. The tension in the air was suffocating.
"Don’t play with me," he growled, his voice dripping with venom. "What kind of fool do you think I am?"
You couldn’t help yourself anymore. The laughter bubbled up inside you, and you laughed, covering your mouth as you did so. Sukuna stared at you, his eyes burning with confusion and fury. He looked like a king who’d just been betrayed, but somehow even more terrifying in that moment.
"Oh, come on," you teased further, walking up to him and standing on tiptoe to whisper in his ear. "You didn’t seem to think I was a ‘lowly human’ a couple of days ago when you were pounding into me like a savage."
Sukuna’s eyes widened in surprise, and his face turned a shade darker, his body stiffening with rage.
"Don’t you dare," he spat, his four arms reaching out and grabbing you by the waist with a force that would make most humans break. But you? You weren’t just any human. You were his human.
"And now you’re talking about it?" he demanded, his voice dangerously low. "You’re trying to make me look like a fool, huh?"
Despite his anger, you couldn’t suppress your grin.
"You’re the one who’s acting like a fool, Sukuna. Jealousy doesn’t suit you."
His eyes narrowed further, but he didn’t admit he was wrong. No, he wouldn’t do that. Instead, with one swift motion, he picked you up, his grip unyielding. His four arms surrounded you, holding you close.
"You’re lucky I don’t kill every single person in this palace for daring to let you out of my sight without that damn ring on your finger," he muttered through gritted teeth.
You couldn’t help but chuckle softly. The fact that Sukuna—the Sukuna—was losing his temper over something as trivial as a ring was almost too ridiculous. Almost.
"All this over a ring?" you asked, raising an eyebrow, still smiling. "Really, Sukuna? You almost killed everyone because I took off my ring for a couple of hours?"
He didn’t respond, but his grip tightened around you, lifting you effortlessly and carrying you toward your shared quarters. As he walked, you wrapped your arms around his neck, not able to stop the teasing smile on your face.
"You’re kind of cute when you're jealous, you know that?" you teased, nuzzling his neck lightly.
Sukuna’s eyes flickered to you, the hint of a growl rumbling in his chest, but he didn’t say anything. The king of curses was undeniably a jealous man, even if he refused to admit it.
And when he finally laid you down on the futon in your quarters, his hands were soft—almost gentle—as he placed a hand on your cheek, his expression still dark but… not as angry as before.
"I’m not going to let you out of my sight again," he murmured, eyes burning with possessiveness. "You’re mine."
You smiled, reaching up to touch his face. "I’m yours," you whispered back.
And just like that, all the tension in the air seemed to melt away, leaving only the comfort of being together.
Shiu:
Shiu Kong was not a man prone to sentimental gestures or overt displays of affection. His love was quiet, steady, and often hidden beneath his sharp tongue and stern demeanor. But he was observant—painfully so. It was this keen eye for detail that had always served him well in his work. Today, however, it left him grappling with a tight knot of unease that coiled around his chest like a curse.
You hadn’t been wearing your wedding ring.
Shiu noticed it that morning when he passed you in the kitchen. You were distracted, bustling around with your usual energy, and when you handed him his coffee, his sharp eyes caught the faint, bare line on your finger.
No glint of the ring he’d placed there.
It wasn’t like you to forget something like that. Shiu wasn’t the type to jump to conclusions, but the thought nagged at him throughout the day. The image of your bare hand replayed in his mind as he handled the paperwork on his desk, and when the hours dragged on, so did his thoughts.
Were you upset about something? Did the ring bother you? Or—no, that was ridiculous—was it deliberate?
His workday felt endless. By the time he stepped into the apartment, his shoulders were tight with tension. Shiu kicked off his shoes and loosened his tie, his heart heavier than he cared to admit.
“Hey,” you called from the kitchen, bright and cheerful. “You’re home! Dinner’s almost ready.”
He stepped into the room, leaning casually against the doorframe. But you knew him too well to miss the way his brow furrowed or the faint stiffness in his posture.
“You okay?” you asked, tilting your head.
Shiu’s lips pressed into a thin line. He never shied away from confrontation, but this… he wasn’t sure how to phrase it. Still, he was Shiu Kong, and hesitation wasn’t in his nature.
“You weren’t wearing your ring this morning,” he said bluntly, his voice even but laced with an edge of something vulnerable.
You blinked, startled, before looking down at your hand as if just realizing the absence yourself. “Oh!” You quickly held up both hands, palms open. “It’s not what you think. I took them to the jeweler to get cleaned today. I didn’t want to forget and leave them on, so I took them off last night.”
His gaze softened, the tension in his shoulders easing as he exhaled a slow, almost imperceptible breath. “That’s it?”
“Of course that’s it!” you said, laughing. “What, did you think I was mad at you or something?”
Shiu clicked his tongue, his usual deadpan expression returning, though the faintest flicker of relief danced in his eyes. “Tch. You could’ve mentioned it. I’m not a mind reader, you know.”
You stepped closer, reaching for his hand and squeezing it with a warm smile. “Sorry, I didn’t think it’d be such a big deal. I’ll make it up to you. Promise.”
You winked and he grumbled something under his breath, but his fingers curled around yours, holding on just a little tighter than usual.
Later that night, when you slipped the ring back onto your finger and flashed it proudly at him, Shiu allowed himself the barest smirk. He didn’t say anything, of course, but the way his hand lingered on your back when he walked past spoke volumes.
Maybe he wasn’t the romantic type, but damn if he didn’t love seeing that ring on your finger.
A/N: oki so this was an attempt, i dunno if this is any good but hey, you live you learn
Choso and Hiruguma vers.
Masterlist
:)
#jujustu kaisen#jjk#nanami kento#fluff#nanami x reader#jjk nanami#jujutsu nanami#gojo#gojo x reader#jujutsu gojo#gojo satoru#jjk gojo#satoru gojo#jujutsu kaisen#geto#geto suguru#jjk geto#geto x reader#jujutsu geto#suguru geto#sukuna ryomen#ryomen x reader#jujutsu kaisen ryomen#ryomen sukuna#toji#toji fushiguro#jjk toji#toji x reader#toji x you#shiu kong
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When a Star Wars writer engages with the material but not the narrative.
I'm writing a long post about the Jedi and the clone troopers and there's a whole section that I had to remove because it was too long:
Karen Traviss' take on the Jedi and the clones.
I already wrote about why Karen Traviss' take on the Jedi and Yoda doesn't track with what George Lucas had established in his narrative of the Prequels. Since then, I've been able to do more research.
It's no secret that one of the reasons Traviss listed for criticizing the Jedi in the Expanded Universe books she wrote is their treatment of the clones (or at least what she understood it to be).
In 2008, she wrote a now-deleted blog post about it (it was really long, so I'm only including the part relevant to my point, if you want the full context you can look it up, this is old stuff).
So if you ask me, in the above quote, Traviss is essentially doing the equivalent of saying:
"Batman is a psycho elitist who beats up the mentally ill and indoctrinates kids, turning them into child soldiers for his unending crazy vigilante war on crime, and if you can't recognize that then you scare the living crap out of me."
Like... you can argue that, and a couple of comics have argued that.
But by and large, the general consensus is that Batman is a superhero, the Robins are his sons and daughter, and the "mentally ill" are in fact the Joker and Two-Face aka mass murderers.
So if you make that argument, that's you applying your real-life values and conclusions to a narrative that deliberately doesn't acknowledge those points, in-universe, in order to tell the story it wants to tell.
It's counting on your suspension of disbelief, defined as "the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or impossible in reality, such as something in a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoying its narrative."
The Jedi accepting the clones and the clones being slaves isn't a "delicate point". It's barely a point at all!
It's never addressed in the film (because of course it isn't, the Prequels are about Anakin and the Republic, not the clones).
It's only addressed once by Slick, an unreliable narrator, in The Clone Wars.
That's it. Hell, in 2008, when The Clone Wars writer Henry Gilroy was asked to comment on the relationship between clones and Jedi, he explicitly said he'd "rather not get into" that particular point.
I recently got Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of 'Attack of the Clones' and nowhere is that detail touched on by Lucas at any point.
Nobody wants to touch on that point with a 10ft pole, because it's not relevant to the story.
So while Traviss acknowledges the Jedi are fictional characters, she doesn't follow that thread through to the end by acknowledging that fictional characters don't have free will, they must abide by the story and the whim of the writer.
She's engaging with the material, but refusing to engage with the narrative. She's having her cake and eating it too.
My reason for saying all this is that in the book Star Wars on Trial, she elaborates on her thought process upon discovering this detail.
Shortly before to this, she acknowledges twice that she knew nothing about Star Wars, beside seeing the original films in her youth.
Another writer who saw the new films and saw Mace Windu argue against there being a war...
... the worry on his face at the prospect of the Jedi being thrown at the Separatists...
... and the sheer melancholy on Yoda's face upon announcing the Clone War had begun...
... might have instead wondered how the Jedi, so opposed to war, could've ended up being generals.
Because while we don't see the Jedi openly protest the use of the clones in the film... they're not exactly giddy about it, either. All they can do is watch powerlessly as it gets voted by the Senate.
"The Jedi are there. But the Jedi aren't really allowed to be involved in the political process. They're there, but they can't suddenly step up and say, "No, no. You can't do that." They have to let the political process go." - George Lucas, Attack of the Clones, Commentary #2, 2002
We also don't see them take on the role of generals, either.
We only see them begrudgingly lead troops on Geonosis, specifically.
But they're not referred to as "generals" yet.
Another writer might have imagined a scene where after Geonosis, Mace Windu talks to Palpatine thinking the Jedi will go back to their roles as diplomats, and that what we saw in Attack of the Clones was a one-time thing to save Obi-Wan, but Palpatine politely goes:
"Ha! No. Didn't you hear? The Senate was so impressed by your performance on Geonosis that they voted to make you all generals in the GAR. Now, get back to the front."
Another writer might've elected to write them having that "big moral debate" she mentions.
Instead, Traviss immediately jumps on the "Jedi are elitists" train.
Because her personal experience with the military makes her sympathize with the clones and her personal belief is that - while the story may frame the Jedi as "the good guys" - nobody is that good a guy, real life people aren't that pure and selfless. There's gotta be something off about them and aHA! That's what it is!
That's her choosing to take that line of thought instead of one more in-line with the story, because she perceives it as unrealistic. But like... Star Wars isn't real life, it's a fairy tale.
That's like saying:
"The hunter in Little Red Riding Hood commits animal cruelty by cutting the Wolf open. He should've let nature take its course, the wolf earned that meal fair and square. If you think the hunter should've saved Red Riding Hood and her Grandma, then clearly you're the kind of monster who thinks one life is worth more than others."
... no?
The story's narrative clearly portrays the wolf as the villain of the tale and frames the Hunter saving Red Riding Hood as a good thing.
Disagreeing with that narrative is absolutely fine, but anybody who acknowledges the wolf is the bad guy in the story isn't automatically an animal hater and/or a bad person. Just because you say "the wolf is the villain" doesn't mean that you think that, in real life, killing wolves for shits and giggles is good.
Conversely, the narrative of the Prequels asks you to suspend your disbelief and not consider the implications that having a clone army entails. Because the use of clones doesn't have a direct impact on either Anakin or the Senate's stories.
Edit: I finished the post this one here originally spun out of!
You can find it here:
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thank you for all the posts you've made, your takes are always so refreshing to hear.
I want to know your thoughts (if it's okay with you, you can also totally ignore this) about all the "men hate" I see online. like I (poc transmasc non-passing) get it, there are genuine societal gender problems. transmisogyny does exist-women face more challenges than men do. but it genuinely hurts when women, especially trans women, think it's funny/quirky to call men trash or say they want all men dead or whatever. idk I just am hoping someone else understands, you know?
There's a lot of nuances to this question. First, I just want to caution against focusing too much on trans girls as the perpetrators of this. A lot of the asks I get from trans men seem to really fixate on trans women as the perpetrators of hard line gender essentialism. I really think trans girls are not the main people we should be focusing on here. If a trans woman is saying this stuff, take the time to analyze her ideology outside of that pithy comment and consider how much trauma and how little power she has in the world. That said, trans women are affected by this kind of ideology just like us, and they rarely have the power to wield it against others in the way cis people can. I know it hurts to feel isolated by your own community, but that kinda gets into my second point.
Part of dealing with this is learning an impulse progressive cishet dude have had to get used to over the decade. Sometimes, "men are trash" or even "kill all men" are not literal phrases. They are things women say when they're in the throes of trauma to vent their frustration. "Men are trash" in particular is generally pretty lighthearted and used to complain when you have a bad date or something. You have to get used to analyzing what someone actually means and airing on the side of empathy. You, as a man, are the one with some amount of systemic power over that woman, so you are the one who needs to prove you are dedicated to not being a misogynist. The same thing happens when my friends say they hate white people. I have to assume they don't hate me given that I'm their friend, but that I still have some of the negative traits of whiteness. I need to care enough to be a good friend by being anti-racist and checking myself on my behavior. I need to be willing to prioritize their comfort over mine. That includes not becoming this meme:
Now that that's established, there ARE times when "all men are evil and should die" is an actual ideology. It's an ideology that hurts tons of minority groups before it hurts the most powerful, but it's also not really great if we assume it only hurts cishet white guys. Following it to its logical conclusion, it just proposes a reversal of oppression dynamics. This gender essentialism is a key part of radical feminism, trans exclusionary or not, but it leaks out of that community to general feminism all the time.
As a young person on Tumblr and Twitter, this deeply affected me. I internalized the idea that you can "just be a girl." It was repeated by some trans girls, but also a LOT of TME people. It was framed as trans inclusive, but it's trans inclusive in the way "political lesbianism" is lesbian positive. It posits gender as a moral choice that is completely up to the individual and unrelated to biology. It's the lazy version of "gender is a social construct." I felt sick and disgusting for wanting to be a boy because tons of well-meaning friends of mine had made it clear that "being a boy" was a choice, and it was the wrong one. "Boy" was a social category that could and should eventually be eradicated. Trans women were conditionally supported because they, in theory, made this future possible. This didn't amount to actual support, of course. It was an ideology mostly spread by afab queer people that mostly benefited afab queer people. There were a few trans girls who spread it, maybe some due to genuinely believing in the ideology and some due to social pressure, but there were also a lot of people straight-up grifting as trans girls who used this thinking to feel powerful in a niche community of teens. Remember fucking Yandere Bitch Club???
At a certain point, I genuinely thought of being a man as an unambiguous moral failing, and I lashed out at out trans men because of it. I wanted to feel powerful, and here was a type of man in my community I could shame and exclude. I still feel bad for making a bunch of ~girls only~ stuff in HS that excluded the one out trans dude at our school, my friend, because he was just a ~binary man~ and leaving him with no friends and no community. I treated transphobia like it wasn't a real oppression on its own and, in doing so, perpetuated transphobia. It happens a lot.
I wasn't really able to accept that there was nuance to the concept of manhood until I read this article while struggling to accept my own gender:
This is a pretty seminal piece of writing. It has its flaws, of course, but the empathy and intersectionality it highlights was life-changing. It also shows that this kind of thinking is largely perpetuated by TME people and hurts trans women greatly.
Gender essentialism is a bad ideology, it's a transphobic, transmisogynist, racist, etc etc ideology. It's literally essential to patriarchy. But it's also very easy to repackage into leftism and easy to dogwhistle. As a result, it's natural to be hesitant when you see someone saying they hate all men, but you have to tread extremely lightly and actually care what they're attempting to express. Because, yeah, men as a social class still hold power over women. They still have reason to fear and hate men.
I'm writing a comic about this stuff, actually, so look out for it in the future..........
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I feel the need to draw attention to the plight of this poor bastard at the start of Cars 2.
Crabby is approached by a random-ass Aston Martin at a dock on the west coast of America, given a set of coordinates and is paid what I assume would have been quite a considerable sum of money to take said Aston out there. A strange situation indeed, made even stranger when you realise just how far Finn, or 'Buddy' asks Crabby to take him. When Crabby says "you can't get any further away from land than out here", he really fuckin meant it:
The coordinates put them almost smack bang in the middle of the pacific ocean. (and before you come for me, the bottom set of coordinates are correct, the ones that are displayed in Cars 2 have not had their decimals converted to minutes and seconds) Now, at this point, Crabby isn't asking too many questions. And his confusion must have hit what he thought was an all time high.
Then big chungus rocks up:
Tony Trihull, a heavily armed combat vessel, glides right up along side the tiny little crabbing boat and blocks him off from further venture. And when Crabby shows him his resistance, Tony threatens to sink him with a lazer guided missile launcher. At this point, Crabby relents and begins meandering back in the direction he came from (I do have to hand it to Crabby here, he's one fearless little ocean dweller).
So, Crabby has just been sent out into the centre of the pacific ocean with no logical answer as to why AND been threatened with being blown up AAAAAND, to top it all off with a delectable trauma cherry:
"Sorry, Buddy. Looks like its the end of the line.......... Buddy?"
'Hang on a minute. Where the hell is my four-wheeled, non-floating passenger!?!?!?' Aka, 'Did I just kill someone?'
Fear and panic would have taken over the mega-confusion of Finn's reasoning for his watery trip. 'Where did he go? How did he 'go'? There's nowhere for him TO go. Did he fall over the edge? Was he just a figment of my imagination? Hang on a minute, did I just help someone kick the bucket???'
Can you IMAGINE the horrific thought patterns that would have followed the realisation that 'Buddy' was no longer on board? Crabby is not aware of Finn's gadgets and capacities, and so, in his mind, there is no other possibility other than the death of the Aston Martin. Cue the hefty therapy bill.
I like to think that Finn is a bit of an empath and would have thought about how this situation would have affected Crabby. And I like to think that he would have found a way to let Crabby know that he was still around and kicking. Maybe after the mission had come to its conclusion. It would still leave Crabby with a plethora of questions. However, at least he would have known that he wasn't responsible for the death of a random and rather strange vehicle.
PS - Day jobs being performed in darkness are much easier to explain than evidently idiosyncratic night quests.
#pixar cars#cars fandom#cars#cars pixar#cars headcanons#cars 2#finn mcmissile#crabby#tony trihull#boats#I did maths for this fucking post
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Oh good Lorch is opening her mouth about Utena again. A series she only talks about because ND Stevenson and Rebecca Sugar made references to it, and because I criticized her takes on it.
Spoilers and long ass diatribes below.
[Lily's Post]
Let's do this point by point shall we?
The Thermian Argument was coined by Dan Olson... you know the Breadtuber who uploaded lolicon onto 8chan so he could write an article about how there's lolicon on 8chan. So that's a good start.
What it apparently means is a logical fallacy wherein someone uses the text of a work to quash criticism of something offensive in that work.
I'm sure Lily is going to use it to mean you can't use the text of the work to quash her own misinterpretation of that text.
Ah this is how we know she has FINALLY maybe actually watched the series. She has never mentioned the incestous tones between the three different sets of siblings in the show before now.
It isn't really played for a joke. With Nanami it's her immaturity. She doesn't really get why its inappropriate to hold her brother up as the ideal man and want chaste kisses from him like when they were little. Just like she doesn't get why its inappropriate to refer to her elementary schooler simp as her "boyfriend". She's clad in yellow when she tries to take her brother's place on the student council for a reason. She's very naive, very immature, still clinging to childhood notions of the world. Akio tries to encourage Touga to take her affection in a sexual direction to manipulate both of them, but Nanami resolutely rejects it. Because the adult reality of her childhood fancy is not what she actually wants.
Some people also speculate Nanami is a deeply closeted lesbian, given she's quick to accuse Utena of being one. And that by holding up her brother, an unattainable man, as the ultimate ideal man she's excusing herself from having to engage with other men.
And yes she drowned a kitten she originally gave to her brother out of jealously. By putting it in a box and pushing it into a reservoir. When she was a little kid and didn't know any better. And regretted it immediately.
Get this Lily: characters... can have flaws.
And that's probably why she constantly has bad karma with animals. Well also Anthy fucking with her.
Kozue and Miki are a whole other story. There was one event in their childhood that shattered how close they used to be, then their parents divorced and neither one of them really knows what to do with those feelings as they enter adolescence.
At what point is any of it fetishistic? It's always depicted as a negative thing. Do you just think it's fetishistic because of your own very obvious incest fetish Lily?
Also we're talking about princes and princesses here when the reality is often times there were arranged marriages between siblings among royalty so. You know. There's that too.
Something happening in a piece of fiction isn't an endorsement.
Lily stop treating goddamn TV Tropes as your media criticism bible.
Maybe instead of just going by what Noralities says you could, I dunno, just watch the show, and pay attention, and try to follow what it is communicating to you, and then draw your own conclusions? Wild idea I know.
Well golly gee and who was the one out here saying "Utena isn't yuri" "Utena isn't gay rep" and getting shat on on Twitter for it? You know the same Twitter conversations YOU try to use against me?
More like it's impossible for you to understand the themes because it is a very abstract, metaphorical and surrealist piece of media.
By the way Lily the primary driving theme of RGU is adolescence. That "apocalyptic" period between childhood and adulthood. The process of the death of the child and the birth of the adult. Those inbetween years when you are neither. And all of these people are within a hazy endless summer at Ohtori Academy until they find their path to adulthood, with Akio and Anthy preying upon them.
You don't have to like it Lily. No one gives a damn. The fans will continue discussing and analyzing this work as we have done for the past almost 30 years. Your input is not needed.
https://ohtori.nu/analysis/
https://satirist.org/essays/utena/
So absolute proof Lily had not watched the show in 17 years when she ran her mouth about it in her 2023 SU video. You know the thing that directly lead to me becoming a YouTuber and a thorn in her side:
youtube
(pun absolutely intended)
Again: no one gives a damn if you don't like it. And yeah, it's not a very accessible series to the average viewer. Oh well!
You said it, not me.
Utena is an important piece of art beyond it being anime, Lily. Suck it up. It's a product of the people and time it was made in, by their own studio with their own rules. Only that exact confluence of events could have lead to its creation.
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Hello, first of all HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!! I hope you had a happy birthday today !
I recently read your recent fic (The Sun eats the Moon) and the writting was amazing. But I have some question in my mind like :
"After that maybe 'Reader' could take contraception in secret, no ?"
"Is she (or they) gonna end up married to him, and forced to be a housewife or just following him where he goes ?" honestly I think her destiny is tragic no matter the result.
"How did he react to her disappearance, did he tried to find her (honestly my question was why he didn't ask her parents or search where did she goes, but honestly its a good thing that he didn't search) ? And during 10 years, how was to him ?" Maybe the only thing we can say "good" about him is he will only looking toward her and not any women after THAT day...?
And last question, I was wondering what will happen to them after THAT day like I know fr that in the media there will be news, but honestly I think the conclusion is well writting, the fact you first introduce the concept about the Moon and conclued with the detailed about the Moon and how tragic the ending is for them (Moon and 'Reader'). And if you are going to a Geto's it's will also be interesting because he was there to.
Sorry for the long message (eng isn't my first language) and thanks you to read that ! Have a nice day or night !
Thank you!!!!!!All great great great questions! I'll try to answer them as best as I can before giving tooo much away lol:
Why cant Ms.Moon take contraception?
yes Ms.Moon (that's my nickname for the mc now lol) could definitely try to take contraception in secret but I don't think it'll be a good ending if Gojo finds out. In the comments of the fic, many ppl were pointing out that Gojo was intentionally trying to get Ms. Moon pregnant back when they were "dating" buuuut it was sort of an afterthought for him. His logic was 'oh well it doesn't matter either way. you're staying with me regardless' but now that he's seen that Ms.Moon is 100% willing to leave him his next course of action is 'k well can't do that if you have a kid'. It's really not about Ms.Moon having a baby, rather it's insurance that bestie won't just dip again. He cares about you more than any kid you'd make together (awww thats so....sweet???)
Will Gojo force Ms.Moon to get married?
Probably, he's a romantic at heart teehee. But also he loves the attention. Part of the reason he was so effective in "keeping" Ms.Moon (in high school) was largely due to public pressure. Now, where he's basically a celebrity, his obsession with the spotlight has only increased. He's gonna be on talk shows and never shy about your relationship to the press. Gojo will definitely describe your relationship as 'newly reunited highschool sweethearts'. People at work will definitely bombard you for the details, and you were never one to be defiant so you'd probably just mutely agree with him (that's why he loves you so much: you're so agreeable). He'd make sure your wedding is the biggest celebration of the year. And then he'd drag you to Aruba or something for yalls honeymoon:)
Why didn't Gojo try to find Ms. Moon?
He did! When you dipped (graduated early and left for college) he went ballistic. I totally forgot to add this in, but Gojo is a huge reason why Ms.Moon doesn't talk to family anymore/anyone in that town. You didn't even tell your parents what college you were headed off to. I bet Gojo harrassed your family for a bit, because he's Gojo Satoru, but when it's clear you just disappeared I bet he was depressed. As terrible as he was, he did love you. It was also a pride thing for him. No one's ever 'won' against him, and you technically did. He'd greatly underestimated you and you got away. I bet he'd be a little impressed at that. I think in the fic it was greatly implied that he was searching for you buuuut eventually he forgot because he got so busy with his life. He still thought about you, but its was probably more along the lines of 'damn, can't believe i lost that bitch' And then you unceremoniously fell from the sky. Surprising, but he's grateful. It was fate to meet you again or was it? *cackles in omniscient author*
The Aftermath
Yeah, you're not living a normal life after that ever again. You're moving in with him, he's getting that marriage certificate ready bye bye freedom. I don't think he'd lock you up, buuuut having a security detail on you at all times, putting a tracker in your phone, and constantly calling/texting you is pretty close to life in prison right? EVENTUALLY, he'd limit your social network, then not-so-gently encourage you to quit your job. By the end of it, you'll be his little housewife but I think he'd be nice about it. (kind of)
#yandere#x reader#yandere jjk#dark content#dark jjk#dark gojo satoru#gojo satoru#asks#yandere gojo satoru#“The Sun Eats the Moon” Asks#SEM
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I had a gremlin thought and had to throw it at you. So we all know that JC and WWX revolved around JYL (as they should) and would 100% do what she told them to. Why had no one taken this to its logical conclusion? Let’s say it’s after another failed meeting in between JYL and her horrible fiancé she is doing the depressingly normal routine of trying to not be hurt while YZY is being horrible to WWX and JC. And she just takes a moment to breathe and wonder why them. What has she and her siblings done to suffer like this? One of the disciples comes over and offers her any help they can. This causes JYL to just have a moment of realization where she stops and tries to remember the last time anyone except those outside the sect asked the Sect leaders for anything. Because the people know that JFM is just passive at best and YZY is plain aggressive. JYL was raised to be a sect wife and basically shadow run a sect right? And let’s say she’s been doing this for years at this point. WWX basically owns the disciples and every resident of Lotus Pier. JC is Sect Heir and has every ounce of loyalty his people and siblings can give him. JYL has this vision of a sect run by the three siblings and it’s just so much better. I imagine for all that they were their mother and father JFM and YZY were very estranged from their children. It’s also basically canon that WWX hid so much of his power and skill from everyone as to not rock the boat. JYL rolls into her brothers rooms, sees the hurt that has been allowed to fester for to long and just decides it’s her turn to go feral. So now I present the idea of a coup. JYL points at the Sect and says I want it and her brothers go whole or in pieces? Now I don’t think any of the siblings is cold enough to kill JFM or YZY so I’m more leaning more towards talisman master over there creating a Jiāng version of Lan forced seclusion. Think about this would put canon in a blender and just shred it. We have Sect leader JYL, her co leader/Heir JC and their brother/Head disciple WWX. Think about WWX allowed to make the Jiāng a talisman powerhouse. Think about how a strengthened, united three person leadership which is really just JYL telling her brothers what to do and them doing it cheerfully. Everyone is validated, there isn’t constant fighting and money is rolling in from the talisman sales. The Jiāng all of a sudden are rising like someone strapped a rocket onto their ass. Let’s be honest the Lan are traditionalists who will swiftly be left in the dust by galaxy-for-a-brainWWX! Who invents like some people breathe. The Jin hold power by riches and let’s point again at our resident genius talisman master who rolls out the flags and compass. The Jiāng are getting richer by the second. The Nie are powerhouses and we have JC and WWX who are ridiculous and almost evenly matched. Lotus disciples are melee masters and going against one now makes a lot of people want to cry because Head Disciple WWX is going to drag his shidis into excellence one way or the other. JC is laughing on the sidelines because how do you think he got so powerful huh and let’s be real our angry grape loves watching people suffer. All of a sudden the Wen conquest doesn’t look to realistic anymore. Then WWX meets WN and WQ and decides to impulse adopt them and their entire branch. Then the Jiāng are now also the medical center of the Sects? Watch out Wens you’ve just lost the top spot to three teenagers two of which are really just following their beloved sisters lead. All I’m saying is JYL ruling the Cultivation World with her brothers cheerfully giving her whatever she wants while she can finally pamper them as she pleases. You want the horrible peacock? Fine buts he’s marrying in. Hey little brother you’re drooling over WQ huh? There is much mocking from single WWX towards his siblings. For awhile WWX is the only unmarried Lotus Pier sibling and boy is he hunted. Everyone is tripping over themselves to lock down the most eligible bachelor who is handsome and rich. And then WWX meets his LZ and how the tables have turned brother dear? Let’s just say the Lans are going to lose that fight before it even begins. LWJ is going to perish at their first meeting. Somehow this ends up a trend where the Jiāng end up pretty much never marrying out. Wow this got away from me but I now offer you this vision!
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Fandom Problem #6360:
Lately it seems a lot of writing communities are so focused on discussing and criticizing tropes that there's little discussion on the technical aspects of the actual writing itself.
How can I improve my sentence structure? Does my plot make sense and follow internally consistent logic? How can I tell if a mystery or reveal is too rushed, or too dragged out? (i.e., Do my characters seem stupid for not having already figured it out, or are they making massive leaps in logic to reach a conclusion that only makes sense to me, the writer, because I already know the truth?)
I dunno, but I know Bethany has an opinion that enemies to lovers is overrated.
I understand criticisms that books are commonly written around tropes for marketing purposes these days, but I feel if we're going to criticize things on the basis of "it uses this, this, and this trope", there should be some criticism as well leveled towards people only know how to critique on the basis of tropes, with no regard or understanding for how or if it factors in to the overall structure of the story, or what message the author is trying to get across with its inclusion. People are happy to say, "it's not about the tropes, it's about the execution" but then never want to talk about the execution. Writing isn't just ideas, it's also "how do I most effectively communicate the ideas I want to convey".
Low-key, I feel like this may be a consequence of people who like to talk about writing in an abstract, hypothetical sense without actually doing it. I am including myself in this, as a once-aspiring "writer" currently on a years-long hiatus from writing. Everybody has ideas, but putting them onto a page and molding them into something coherent can be a pretty intimidating task.
You can avoid playing into "problematic tropes" all you want, but it doesn't mean the actual experience of reading the words on the page is going to be engaging. There's a reason why books aren't just a bullet-pointed shopping list of "things that happen".
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Zeon Remnants: Why so many?
*Spoilers for most of the Universal Century Below*
So a common criticism of Universal Century I see is that it’s essentially all Zeon Remnants, all the time. That it every antagonist to the Earth Federation is either a Zeon remnant or related to such and it makes the universal century feel smaller.
That is 100% a valid criticism.
However, it’s not something I particularly notice as a problem, so I figured I’d make a post delving into my reasons why. I’ll be talking about each of the “main” Zeon groups (The Principality of Zeon, The Delaz Fleet, Axis Zeon, Char’s Neo Zeon and The Sleeves) and I’ll talk about why Zeon are so frequently the antagonist. Alright, enough preamble, let’s get on with it.
Why don’t I have a problem with Zeon always showing up, all the time?
Because I usually consider each Zeon group its own thing. Like, yeah the aesthetics and some mobile suits tend to match up but they typically have…. If not different goals, then different cultures. It’s not just the same thing all the time.
I’ll be dividing them by roughly four factors:
Motivations - *Why* are they fighting, how unified are they?
Size - big force or little force, since it affects how they fight.
Newtypes - Oh hey, it’s just possibly one of their more important contributions to the setting in general. Kinda important. Focusing more on how they’re used and how they’re seen.
Mechanics - Mobile suits and overall tech level for the time.
The Principality of Zeon
First up, the good ol’ Principality of Zeon. The P of Z, if you will. Founded by Degwin Sodo Zabi in the aftermath of Zeon Zum Deikun’s death in U.C. 0068. Rapid Militarisation of Side 3 (Munzo), the colonies composing Zeon followed, with what would become the One Year War being declared in UC 0079. It’s sometimes known as “The Duchy of Zion” in older translations.
It’s a little unclear *why* war was declared, but the official line and the view of the average citizen would be that it was a war of Independence from the Earth Federation. Zeon Zum Deikun (who Zeon was named after) was the father of Contolism, a philosophy that combines two major elements:
Elseim - The Earth is Sacred, and must be protected (The Earth is Humanity’s Cradle, but man cannot live in the cradle forever-type stuff, with a big focus on environmentalism).
Sideism - All Space Colonies should be independent from the Earth Federation (This is where all the “Those whose souls are still bound by gravity”-type stuff comes from).
And nestled riiight in the middle of those two is the Newtype Theory, which postulates that ascending into space is the next stage of mankind’s evolution, giving rise to a “new type” of individual, with the ability to communicate over great distances and divides.
Due to Class divides and economic disparity between the Earth Federation “elite” and the Space Colonists (particularly those in Side 3), Contolism was massively popular, with Zeon Zum Deikun being raised to leader of Side 3. However, he died suddenly and (apparently) appointed Degwin Zabi as his successor. Degwin would instigate a purge of Zeon’s most loyal followers, and place his children in high ranking political positions, ruling the Principality of Zeon as absolute dictator. It’s unclear if Degwin declared war as the logical conclusion of the Contolism Philosophy to wrest Earth from the Federation, if he viewed it as a way to secure greater power or if he genuinely wanted to rule the entire earth sphere.
What I’m getting at here is that your average Zeon soldier believes he is fighting for the Independence of the Space Colonies and the safeguarding of Earth against the Federation Elites who seek to exploit it. The higher command however, is incredibly fractious, since each one is operating under a different member of the Zabi Family, and so there tends to be a lot of friction. Even if Zeon had won the OYW, it’s likely it would’ve had to deal with a Civil War at some point or another (dependant on which members of the Zabi family survived).
Zeon is also notable in that it’s the single largest organisation here, and since mobile suit combat was relatively new, it fought with a lot more variety than any of its successors, such as tanks and mobile armours. It also had the advantage of, with the notable exception of the RX-78 and its derivatives, being far better off than the Earth Federation technologically, possessing advanced mobile suits and actual Newtype research (important note; With one singular exception, it is never suggested that Zeon’s Newtype laboratories are anything less than above-board. Are they under immense pressure to succeed? Absolutely. But crucially, they aren’t inhuman). It had a large variety of mobile suits - usually a few good “workhorse” units (Zaku’s and Dom’s) with a bunch of oddities on the side (like Gyan’s and Zakarello’s).
Lastly, the One Year War itself. This is a point I’ll be coming back to frequently throughout this, but; The Federation possessed a major population and material advantage over the Principality of Zeon for the entire war, and was able to deploy a staggering amount of enlisted soldiers into the war. Zeon possessed the advantage of mobile suits early on, but they were also forced to mobilise a great many soldiers. Both Sides of the One Year War lost half of their respective populations in the early stages of the war (The One Week Battle) and Side 4 Moore was utterly devastated. What I’m getting at is that there would be an awful lot of individuals with millitary training and/or technological know-how running around after the war, as occurred in the real-world World War II and Cold War (strictly speaking I’m looking at them being an easy source of millitary experience in genre fiction, but you get the idea). So you have a lot of Ex-Soldiers and remaining military equipment hanging around, and a lot of people with “legitimate grievances” to hate the other side (Warcrimes on both sides, The Earth Federation essentially doesn’t change, Zeon Remnants remain an active problem with several becoming pirates and there’s a lot of Federation “mop-up” teams going around, the precursors to the Titans).
So, The Principality of Zeon in a nutshell; Principled reasoning (i.e. Contolism), massive force, Newtypes rare and incredibly valued (since they’re essentially a living reminder of why they’re fighting and a massive force multiplier), mobile suits essentially brand new and largely experimental.
The Delaz Fleet (and Zeon Remnants in general)
The Delaz Fleet was formally created in U.C. 0081, being primarily composed of former Gihren Zabi Loyalists from the Principality of Zeon, led by Aigulle Delaz (above, left). They were most famous for Operation Stardust in U.C. 0083. I’m also going to be discussing Zeon Remnant groups in general here, since the Delaz Fleet is essentially just a very large and successful Zeon remnant group. Delaz’ goal is relatively simple - vengeance. Delaz wishes to deal a hefty blow to the federation, largely to avenge the Principality’s loss at a Baoa Qu, with much of his forces feeling similarly (note: it’s possible that, had their been less withdrawals of Gihren Faction Loyalists like Delaz, A Baoa Qu may have gone differently). The forces under his command is relatively small, to the point where he is forced to seek aid from both the Axis Advance Fleet (though this is largely in materials and recovery) and the Cima Fleet, which costs him dearly.
Delaz specifically embellishes the “cause” of Zeon, focusing less on the Principality’s totally necessary warcrimes and more on Zeon’s fight for Independence against the Earth Federation. This is relevant because Delaz reaches a wide audience, espousing his own Zeonic ideals, largely divorced from the original Contolism basis. He also blames the weakened political leadership of the time (read: that nasty Kycilia murdering his precious Gihren Zabi). Delaz is specifically the most successful of the Zeon remnants in his era, directly to the space colonies detriment, since his actions directly lead to the founding of the Titans, who brutally crack down on the Colonies.
Equipment-wise, Zeon remnant groups are a varied bunch, but typically fight using older or ad-hoc equipment - The Delaz Fleet primarily utilises upgraded machines from the One Year War - Zaku FII’s, Rick Dom’s and, most notably, Dra-C’s - mobile suits cobbled together from spare Zaku and Gattle fighter-bomber parts. Any other materials they use are either stolen from the Earth Federation or are acquired through other means.
Newtypes are kinda weird here, since there just aren’t any in 0083, and the general theme with Newtypes in other remnant groups around this time is typically that they’re either propaganda or just not very good. It’s possible that the Newtype philosophy was largely dormant for a while immediately following Zeon’s defeat - either viewed as propaganda or directly suppressed by the Earth Federation themselves (like Amuro). The Newtype philosophy likely experienced as resurgence with the emergence of the Titans, since it would have been a rallying cry for spacenoid independence once more. As such, Newtypes just aren’t a big thing in Zeon remnant groups around this era, at least as near as I can tell (Delaz is the only animated force we see, and I try not to rely too much on manga, at least for Universal Century).
So, Delaz Fleet (and immediate postwar Zeon remnants) in a nutshell; Varied Motivations (though typically vengeance or survival), Small Guerilla Force, Newtypes near non-existent, mobile suits either OYW cast-offs or stolen.
Axis Zeon
Which I admit I’m using because it’s more easily distinguished than Neo Zeon, Neo Zeon and Neo Zeon. Anyway, Axis Zeon is made up of the various Zeon remnants that fled to the Asteroid Axis after the One Year War, this includes several pilots, scientists and engineers, which ensures that Axis enjoys a massive technological edge for most of its existence. Axis, in contrast to Zeons prior, is primarily concerned with “The Restoration of the Zabi Family” since one of the people that ended up there is Mineva Zabi, daughter of Dozle and the Zabi family’s only living heir. Except Glemy maybe.
Since Mineva was of the Zabi family lineage, of course she’d want to resume their conquest of the Earth Sphere, and so Axis was reconstructed into a fortress for her to rule when she came of age, with a regent being appointed to rule in her stead, which eventually fell to Haman Karn. Haman was essentially able to use Mineva as a figurehead in order to mount an invasion of Earth, and struck at the end of the Gryps War, when both the Titans and AEUG were reeling from that conflict. It’s also notable that a lot of the Axis members we see are very young, so were raised on “The Glories of Zeon” without actually seeing the realities of the One Year War with their own eyes.
Neo Zeon also was able to develop and field newtype weaponry, with newtypes being a potent threat against the AEUG. However, they still weren’t common, and so Cyber Newtypes were fielded. In contrast to “true newtypes” who have naturally awakened to their powers, cyber-newtypes are those with Newtype potential who have been forcibly conditioned with drugs and implants in order to function for combat. Though deadly threats, they are very unstable. You may notice that this seems anathema to the Contolism Philosophy espoused by Zeon Zum Deikun, and is incredibly dehumanising to boot, signifying that Axis is barely even paying lip service to its ideals of spacenoid independence. Axis Zeon is also notable for utilising clones to supplement its Newtype forces, which…. I don’t think is strictly counter to Contolism? But it feels like it’s against it in spirit, if not in letter.
It’s especially notable that a great many members of Axis Zeon espouse things like “For the Glory of Neo Zeon” and “For the Restoration of the Zabi Family” without really understanding what they mean. It’s also notable that, barring links with surviving Zeon Remnant groups, Axis isn’t noted as being very popular with the colonial population, likely because they don’t really understand what the “Ideals of Zeon” mean, and the civilians recognise them as merely parroting Zabi rhetoric.
Axis Zeon would eventually be undone by a Civil War within the organisation led by Glemy Toto, coupled with the AEUG’s offensives. Unlike the political manoeuvring of the One Year War, the Glemy Faction coup occurs very suddenly and results in massive casualties in the organisation due to his command of the Newtype corps.
Technologically, Axis is absolutely cutting-edge. They really don’t cheap out on mobile suit development and are able to design and field a variety of units comparable to the Principality in its heyday. Axis forces are essentially the best-armed Zeon will ever be, helped massively by the sheer amount of Newtype weaponry they can deploy (they have three mainline mobile suits in the Neo Zeon War, all three seeing good amounts of production at various stages and they’re typically first pick for Zeon Remnant Groups in the U.C. 0090’s). They also have the facilities for Newtype cloning, as mentioned above.
Axis Zeon in a nutshell; Hollow Motivations (Restoration of the Zabi Family and Conquest of the Earth Sphere), large force, newtypes and cyber-newtypes prevalent, mobile suits many, varied and cutting-edge.
(I haven’t quite finished all of ZZ, so forgive me if this one’s a bit rough)
Char’s Neo Zeon/Newborn Neo Zeon
Sometimes also known as Char’s Rebellion. It was basically founded in order to accelerate space migration….. by plunging the Earth into nuclear winter and making it near-uninhabitable. Founded by our good buddy Char Aznable in U.C. 0093, there’s less to go on for this particular iteration of Zeon, basically just a movie and supplemental information. It is composed of various Zeon remnants and political factions under Char Aznable with the express purpose of instigating the Axis Drop in order to make the earth uninhabitable and stop humanity from damaging it. Which is a terrible plan, barely paying lip service to the Contolist ideals Zeon was founded upon.
That’s because it’s a lie.
Char is in fact mounting a suicide run on the entire Earth. Creating a threat so massive that Amuro will be forced to kill him to stop it. Which is rather informative. Char is essentially using his influence to hold the entire operation together, and it’s notable that a good chunk of his own forces actively move to counter his goal when the option presents itself. Consequently, there isn’t much in the way of ideals on display here - Char is famous both for being the son of Zeon Zum Deikun and for his Dakar Address when he was a member of the AEUG. It kinda seems like a lot of his support is coming from people who know him from that, as opposed to what he’s actually doing. Newborn Neo Zeon is basically headlined and held together by Char, and has the vibe of a desperate last gasp for Zeon. It’s also notable that the only time we see Char actually lead Zeon is when he’s using its name for his own ends.
Newborn Neo Zeon also has a great more political pull than many of the other groups - Char Succeeds in a lot of his goals because he’s essentially able to play the Earth Federation like a fiddle, while remnant groups happily provide him aid. Technologically he has the backing of both Anaheim and Newtype Labs. Char’s mobile suits are, while not cutting-edge as such, very well rounded. The Geara Doga and Jagd Doga both share components and a general body structure, and the only reason the Sazabi is unique is because they couldn’t make the frame suit Char’s abilities (there’s a bunch of prototype units that pave the way to the Sazabi). Newborn Neo Zeon also retains a number of Axis Zeon Remnants, which bring their mobile suits and technical skill as well. Newtypes, while not exactly common, are considerably more stable than their Axis predecessors, and are given Jagd Doga’s, which are probably the closest a Newtype machine has ever come to reliability and ease of use. There’s also the Alpha Azieru…. which is also there (I don’t really have a lot to say on it honestly, it’s just kind of another “big newtype weapon”). Unfortunately, I really don’t have much to go on here regarding how the force views its newtypes - they’re essentially just treated as a special branch of the forces, no contolist ethics here, which is genuinely pretty sad. Because it illustrates just how far Char’s fallen from the ideals he espoused at the end of Zeta, especially considering he’s the son of Zeon Zum Deikun.
Char’s Neo Zeon in a nutshell: Motivations lean Char-centric, middling force with a lot of soft power, Newtypes present and mostly stable, small mobile suit variety but what’s there is very good.
(The Geara Doga’s one of my favourite grunt suits, so I’m probably quite biased here)
The Sleeves
Last of the “main” Neo Zeon Organisations. The Sleeves is a melting pot of every Zeon remnant group going. Founded around U.C. 0096, they were led by the man called Full Frontal, known as the “ghost of char”. Due to their disparate status, they aren’t recognised as a legitimate organisation by the Federstion, instead being branded a terrorist group - which they essentially are, being an aggregation of a bunch of other informal Zeon remnant groups. This mixed nature leads to a similar diversity in views and equipment - you have die-hard contolists, Glemy faction remnants, newborn Neo Zeon cast-offs and everything in-between.
They are essentially a return to form for Zeon Remnant groups, but are able effectively leverage their limited assets to fight quite effectively, though again, they’re heavily reliant on soft power, such as their relationship with Anaheim and political connections. They don’t have the forces to steamroll through the Earth Federation, so they’re forced to adopt an almost cell-based approach (at least that’s my read on Full Frontal and Suberoa Zinnerman’s relationship). It’s an odd mix of the realities of a Guerilla war against the federation and hearkening back to Neo-Zeon groups past (who were themselves hearkening back to the days of the old Principality). I should also note that The Sleeves maintain links with several other Zeon Remnant groups, such as some of the forces that attack Torrington in Unicorn. This is interesting not just because it shows a greater deal of collaboration between these groups than seen prior (Delaz and Cima were not exactly trusting of each other), it also shows a different mechanical composition to pre-U.C. 0090 remnant groups.
They’re kind of all over the place. Which I love because it’s 1:1 with their philosophical composition - they’re remnants from a bunch of different forces and groups, so of course it makes sense that their mobile suits would reflect that. The Sleeves do possess the…. Not-quite-cutting-edge-but-at-least-new Geara Zulus and the absolutely fabulous Sinanju (s), Kyshatriya and Rebawoo, but that’s kind of all they’re at. Everything else is from at least Char’s Rebellion or earlier - there’s one-of-a-kind custom units, old axis castoffs, even some stuff from the One Year War and immediate postwar period (like that poor regelgu). A varied armament for a varied force.
However, it is notable that The Sleeves don’t really have much of an identity of their own, largely due to their patchwork composition. They’re the scattered remnants of previous causes, and this is both called out and used against them in-universe. It feels like an examination of Char’s actions during CCA - Full Frontal certainly has Char’s charisma, but he doesn’t have his drive as evidenced by his eventual goal, which isn’t necessarily a *bad* aim, it’s just not Char.
Following on from this they share Newborn Neo Zeon’s just general…. disinterest in newtypes. They’re like any other pilot, they can just use different equipment. All the Sleeves Newtypes we see are very well-equipped though, so how they precisely look at them is unclear. This could be viewed as another extension of Char’s attitudes in CCA.
The Sleeves in a nutshell: Motivations are kind of all over the place, middling-to-low-sized force, newtypes uncommon but mostly-stable (one exception) and very effective, massive mobile suit variety but quality’s also all over the place.
Conclusion
So yeah, I find each revival of Zeon different enough that I can consider them separately to each other - yeah, there’s crossover, but their attitudes change each time - the only thing that stays the same is the aesthetic and who they’re fighting against.
But why are Zeon so often the antagonist?
Out-of-universe, because they sell. But you already knew that so let’s talk about possible In-universe reasons:
Old Equipment - The Principality was *huge*. Masses of equipment, enlisted men and yes, mobile suits. We see several individuals that are able to survive on the Scrap alone - Kelly Layzner, Judau Ashta, even the AEUG utilize a Gelgoog at one point. There’s a lot of material out there, and its a hot commodity post war and the Earth Federation will be in a hurry to rebuild - they don’t have the resources to track down every case of assault rifles or damaged-but-not-irreparable mobile suit. The South Seas alliance in Gundam Thunderbolt is one such organisation, but there will be a lot of Zeon Remnants who are still functional.
Loss of Leadership, not force - Aguille Delaz personally blames the “weak political leadership” (IE Kycillia) for the loss in the One Year War, but we can extrapolate that further. The Battle for A Baoa Qu saw pretty much all the remaining Zabi High Command due within hours of each other - Gihren kills Degwin, Kycillia kills Gihren, Char kills Kycillia. These are three massive losses to the war effort in very short spaces of time. Gihren’s betrayal of Degwin would’ve been very costly for him even if Kycillia hadn’t taken revenge there and then. He deprived himself of both the Solar Ray and the Fleet that Degwin was part of. The fact he took out Revil as well merely would’ve made it an even loss - if it wasn’t for the Solar Ray being rendered unusable into the bargain. Kycilia’s revenge killing of Gihren deprives A Baoa Qu of forces as the commanders loyal to Gihren flee the scene - Delaz among them - weakening the defence overall. Finally, Kycilia is killed as she is attempting to flee to Granada, where she planned to continue the war. This leaves a great many well-armed forces at large, since their strength wasn’t spent at A Baoa Qu - forces that Axis Zeon will draw on. All it really takes to galvanise these remnants is a charismatic individual, something which isn’t exactly in sort supply in the Universal Century.
Corollary to the above - Unclear loss - A Baoa Qu was absolute chaos, so the precise mechanics of “why Zeon lost” might be difficult for the average soldier to grasp - particularly one lacking in reliable non-federation communication sources. It would be easy to look at the mess of A Baoa Qu, then look at the equipment beside you and think “Yeah, we could’ve won. Yeah, we might still win”.
Unchanged Status Quo - Zeon launched the One Year War, at least officially, in the name of Independence. The Earth Federation was governing the colonies poorly, and class inequality was high. This does not change, if anything, it gets worse, as groups like the Titans see the OYW and Operation Stardust as Carte Blanche to utterly suppress the space colonies, and carry out War Crimes at least equal to Zeon’s. A failed war might at least spark some change to prevent another one, but if anything conditions for spacenoids only get worse, so resistance groups would see an upturn in numbers.
Corollary to the Above - Spacenoid Independence doesn’t stop with the war - The Independence of the Space Colonies is still a hot-button issue which the Federation has reason to suppress. So any ex-Zeon soldiers that folded back into civilian life may get involved with Colonial Independence movements. Or, any colonial independence movement that finds the Federation isn’t listening to them might seek a way to *make* them listen - and might find Zeon Remnant Groups sympathetic to their cause.
Little oversight - Before the formation of the Titans, the Earth Federation government believed Zeon to be removed as a threat - small pirate groups, but nothing major. Operation Stardust changed all this, yes, but before that Zeon remnant groups could operate largely unopposed, especially in areas with lower federation presence.
Total Societal Upheavel - Half of the population of the Universal Century died in the One Week Battle. Side 4 Moore was completely destroyed. There’s going to be some serious societal reconstruction after that no matter how you look at it. (Sidebar - Polygamy is mentioned as being a lot more common in Gundam Thunderbolt after the OYW, due to the massive gender disparity - you could also read this as Universal Century also being supportive of Lesbians). It’s not necessarily a driving force behind Zeon Remnant groups, but it’s worth remembering.
Military Experience - The big one, in my opinion. You have a lot of individuals with military experience after the war, including Guerilla warfare. This includes all the forces that had to adapt to new environments, like fighting in space, in colonies or on earth. There’s also a massive postwar economic depression. That’s not going to breed contentment towards a weak government, especially one that wasn’t doing a good job before the war.
In a nutshell, Zeon has the experience, materials and drive necessary to continue being a problem after the One Year War, and the Earth Federation Government doesn’t have the institutional will to stop them until Operation Stardust, which leads to the creation of the Titans, which really don’t help the situation.
Feel free to mention anything I’ve missed!
#Char-isma if you will#I was also gonna briefly talk about Mars Zeon/Rezeon but this got long so I’ll do that another time#gundam#ramblings#long post#mobile suit gundam#Universal Century#Zeon#Principality of Zeon#Neo Zeon#Reborn Neo Zeon#The Sleeves#Delaz Fleet#Zeon Remnants#Gelgoog#Rozen Zulu#Zeta Gundam#Gundam ZZ#char’s counterattack#Gundam unicorn
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Did Richie jinx Sydcarmy?
(This is not an attack on Richie, just an attempt to understand his mind space regarding Sydcarmy at the time)
This scene has been playing in my mind for quite some time now and I've been wondering what part (if any) Richie played in the conflict between Carmy and Sydney. Was he just a passerby/observer in this or did he actively participate in the separation of sydcarmy?
In my last meta, I talked about how Claire's call spooked Carmy because he couldn't reconcile his intentions/desires with reality and that's why he blew off the food tour with Sydney. However, I don't think it stopped there. There's a chance that Richie may have further spooked him and contributed to breaking whatever remaining resolve Carmy may have had to still try to make things work with Syd (maybe intentionally, maybe not).
One thing we observed in season 1 is that Richie would lash out for any scrap of control when he's feeling powerless. We saw him go head to head with Syd when he felt she was influencing too much of a change in "review", leading to the ever infamous Syd/Richie fight scene.
Now we see him witness Carmy giving Syd all that controlling power in season 2 as well, even more than season 1. He's witnessed her rise to an unofficial partner of the beef, being able to raise dust when anything significant goes on without her knowledge, while he's literally unable to define his own purpose. Clocking them and making a petty signal about it as a mini lashing out is very on par for pre-transformation Richie.
One thing about The Bear is they would leave gaping plot holes, like a fill-in-the-blank-spaces kind of thing, so viewers can make up their own version of stories and interpretations. They never show what happened with Carmy running that errand for Claire but following that was Carmy being the most almost overtly romantic he had been with Syd yet, when she surprises him at The Bear later as the wall is being taken down- a scene that all fan edits never do without.
Maybe he was feeling guilty about blowing her off, but I think he was more trying to get back to the closeness they had experienced in the apartment. The way he touches her, kicks debris out of the way for her, patiently tries to understand her gripe with the recent renovations and work out their differences to a mature and logical conclusion screams "I know I veered from the path and I'm trying to get back" in the most Carmy way. But then, he completely backs off from Syd after Richie made it known he had clocked them.
Richie's main focus is the success of The he Bear. He has nowhere else to go.
Unlike the rest of them, he really has nowhere else to go. The Beef/Bear is it as at that point. Everyone else has other prospects, from Carmy even down to Neil Fak- they can pivot. He, of all people, is, in my opinion, the most desperate to have The Bear succeed and I can imagine him thinking about the possibility of a silly romance sinking or stalling its progress. He is already aware how important Syd is to that project and also how problematic Carmy is. He most probably also wanted to protect them from each other and the project from them. Even in season 1, when he was majorly wilding out, it was still in the interest of keeping The Beef afloat and running.
"It's a delicate fucking ecosystem"
I wonder if he verbally said something to Carmy after that scene. Maybe voiced his concern or gave a warning. Maybe he even just confronted Carmy about his observation in his usual jokey manner, causing Carmy to do what he does the best- "running away". Richie also clocks his next move, running to Claire and that statement Richie made to Carmy when he brings her to the restaurant is all kinds of loaded.
"Mold is the death knell"
Now, all of this things I have talked about have been more practical and doesn't equate to jinxing in the real context, so I will refer to my previous meta about the episode Pasta and the use of the magical in The Bear.
Richie is the one who ends up spoiling "the magic" in a symbolic sense when the mold (death knell) is unloaded on him, the spell master, supervisor, etc. He was the one to signify the doom to come to Sydney and Carmy's relationship. So by butting himself into their affairs in any capacity, whether with good intentions or not, maybe he put the final nail in the coffin?
All these kind of makes Carmy's unhinged outburst to Richie seem a lot less surprising (not saying that Carmy was right but that it doesn't seem as left field is you consider that Carmy partially blamed him- which Carmy is known to do, blame others). That would be why he was so triggered to unload that much unhinged vitriol at Richie, especially with Richie saying he couldn't let something good happen for once in his life.
The incredulous look Carmy gives seemed like saying no, YOU wouldn't let something good happen for once in my life, you had to ruin it like my family always does. Because even when Richie calls him Donna he was mad but didn't totally lose it until Richie made that statement. Also their conversation in season 1 about Richie only bringing bad news and Carmy afraid of good things happening seems very congruent to the leading events and to this scene.
Is Richie against sydcarmy? I would guess that with him being pleased about Carmy moving forward with Claire and with the way he was so hard on her side- encouraging Carmy to go out to her during F&F and chewing Carmy when things didn't go well- he actually was, at least initially. But I don't think it was for malicious reasons. I think he just wanted to protect The Bear and maybe Syd and Carmy from what he probably guessed would be a disaster for several reasons (one important one I'll talk about later).
So, yes, I think Richie jinxed sydcarmy.
NB: I didn't intend to post this right now but it accidentally posted, so I have to do all this rushed edit and update.
#the bear#sydcarmy#carmy x sydney#the bear meta#carmy x richie#carmy berzatto#sydney adamu#sydney x carmy#sydrichie#the bear fx
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hey kh gang, so this is a debate I've been having in my head ever since first getting into this series and I've never really seen a general consensus about it. so I'm asking you today, what order do you say the Wayfinder trio's names in out loud?? like how most people say "Sora, Riku, Kairi" when talking about the Destiny trio and "Roxas, Axel, Xion" when talking about the Sea Salt trio.
some more ramblely thoughts about this under the cut
so I know this is kind of a silly poll that doesn't matter but it's been something I've never really decided on coming up on year two of knowing about this series, and it bothers me even more since I don't tend to see a general consensus on this anywhere else and everyone just kind of says it in their own order
I think currently if I had to land on one I'd say "Aqua, Terra, Ven" personally just because it sounds the most natural to say. But it's also interesting to think about it through the lens that we say the other trio names as. They seem to run off the logic of "Main character we get to play as, Oldest figure of the group, Girl/Third tag along" or something along those lines, and its just generally obvious that that's the order we should say their names in
But that all kinda falls apart with the Wayfinder's because it gets so much more complicated than that and, at least from what I can tell, even the people making the damn games don't have an official order that they should be said in.
Maybe Terra, Ven, Aqua should be the order since that's the order you're meant to play them in in BBS? but then again saying it out loud like that sounds really awkward and it breaks the loose rules of saying the other trio's names. Well if we follow those rules then it should probably be Ven, Terra, Aqua right?? since Ven is so connected to Sora and Roxas he should probably take their place in the order, plus I've always personally felt like Ven is supposed to be the most "main protagonist" out of the three in BBS specifically. Well that one also sounds a bit awkward to say out loud and it can be very much argued that Aqua is the most "main protagonist" of the three at this point in the series. After all she is the leader of their team in Melody of Memory and she's gotten a whole game to herself giving her easily the most focus of the three (even though that too can be argued since Ven got focus in the mobile stuff). So then the order should probably be Aqua, Terra, Ven right??? that's what I've tentatively landed on but considering how much argument there is for other orders it really just comes down to preference. still it would be nice if we could all generally as a fandom come to a solid conclusion.
anyway. that's all. if you somehow read thru my giant wall of text have a nice day :3. and even if you didn't still have a nice day <3.
#kingdom hearts#kh#kingdom hearts wayfinder trio#kh aqua#kh terra#kh ventus#kh bbs#sorry if the tags are excessive I'm just trying to spread this as far as I can lmao#not that this is like a huge life changing debate I'm just a curious camper
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