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laulink · 3 years

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After listening to Friend (and crying. A lot.), I decided to try my hand at analysing the song’s lyrics and what they could possible mean for Penny, Ruby, and the story going forward. So let’s get started.

Darkness like Midnight

Moonless there’s no light

Another lonely day

Is ending

Searching forever

Waiting but never finding

The only thing

I dream of

The warmth of a smile

That stays for a while

The face of a friend

That won’t leave

Alright, that’s a lot to begin with, but the whole segment can only, truly be understood after hearing those last four lines, so let’s break it down.

The first two thirds of this part is about Penny’s life before she met Ruby. She was all alone, every day, as “another lonely day” implies. This loneliness is characterised by darkness, the moonless night at the end of the lonely day, meaning that even at night, Penny finds no light to brighten up her existence.

The mention of “Midnight” is interesting here, because Midnight is the title of the episode in which we discover Cinder’s backstory and this episode is, to say the least, quite dark. Plus, there are some parallels to be drawn between Cinder and Penny : both of them have been chosen by authority figures (Salem and James) and given a destiny and a role by those same figures (Protector of Mantle, destined to save the world, for Penny and the Destroyer of Humanity, destined to bring the current world of Remnant to an end by helping Salem with her plans and gathering the Maiden powers for Cinder). According to those first few lines, we could also parallel their upbringing : both of them were alone with no friends for a long time, then one person appeared and brightened up their existence (Ruby and Rhodes), going so far as to give Penny and Cinder hope that they could escape the chains restraining them and start making their own choices (staying at Beacon for Penny and becoming a Huntress for Cinder).

In other words, you could say that, in this first line, Penny is telling us that she was in a similar place to Cinder when Cinder was a child. Of course, I expect Penny’s needs were attended to and she was most likely not a victim of physical abuse like Cinder was, but the lack of friends, the loneliness and the restraints around them and their every movement is certainly similar.

Then comes the last third of this first extract, the one about the thing Penny chases : a friend who would stay by her side and smile with her. The last two lines, “The face of a friend/That won’t leave” seems to imply that Penny has some semblance of friend already, but that the friend(s) in question leave and don’t stick around long enough for the relationship to properly develop and be given meaning to.

This line made me think of Ciel Soleil, to be honest. Ciel was Penny’s “teammate” during the Vytal Festival, yet they weren’t seen together all that often, mostly right before, during and after the match against team CRDL. Despite this, Ciel was obviously very much aware of Penny’s strength and abilities, having even planned for their double match to end in less than a minute (if I remember correctly). That means that Ciel saw Penny fight a few times and, if you add that to the fact that James couldn’t have just added her to a random team for the Festival with no explanation whatsoever to the team or their classmates, that probably means Penny more or less attended Atlas Academy with Ciel and two other teammates, so her presence in the Festival wouldn’t be strange.

However, we know Atlas Academy’s stance on friendships among teams and we saw how socially unaware Penny was during her first meeting with Team RWBY and how happy she was to find someone who would call her a friend. So it isn’t a stretch to think that none of Penny’s teammates were really friendly to her, keeping their relationships professional, to her dismay.

Moving on !

I heard a song once

It posed this point of view

That wishes made on stars

Are likely to come true

So here’s my secret

At bedtime every night

I searched the sky and hoped to find

A star who’d send a light

To me

The one thing I need

Just one kind soul

With a heart of gold

Then my dreams became real

And I finally feel not alone

Do hugs always make you feel this warm ?

A big chunk again, but this one will be easier to break down.

This part of the song tells us that Penny’s dream was to have a friend, even “Just one kind soul” to ease the loneliness. Her best bet for that was to make a wish on a star and yeah, that’s awfully cute, because all of us, when we were kids, were told that kind of story, but it’s also sad that Penny’s only hope to find a friend was to be granted a miracle from a star far away. And, given that the previous part of the song mentioned a dark night sky with no light (“Moonless, there’s no light”), we also know that there weren’t a lot of stars for Penny to wish on, or in other words, that her chances of her wish being granted were very small.

However, the miracle happened ! Ruby appeared and made Penny’s dream come true ! The one kind soul with a heart of gold who would be her friend !

The line about hugs making you feel warm doesn’t really fit in the narrative of their encounter and Ruby’s impact on Penny’s life, however, since the first time Penny asked Ruby this question was in V8, so much later in their relationship. To me, it mainly serves as the first line to really establish, with no possible doubt, that this song is sung from Penny’s point of view and that the friend she is referencing is Ruby, as this question is extremely specific and exclusive to the two of them.

My dreams came true

The day that you appeared

And called me “friend”

An answered prayer

A chance to

Share the world

To be a girl

Who finally felt alive

Refrain ! It’s all about how Ruby’s appearance indeed made Penny’s dreams a reality : she got a friend, someone she could explore the world with, talk to about it, ask questions to and discuss with, but most of all, someone with whom she could finally feel like a girl instead of a weapon, a living being instead of a machine. We know, from her reveal in V2, that Penny was very self-conscious and uncertain of her own humanity, that she knew a lot of people would see her as nothing but a robot and that she was half-believing they would be right to. Her relief when Ruby assured her she was a real girl was “crushing”, to say the least x)

And this feeling of being real and alive, she got it all thanks to Ruby and Ruby alone. None of the other heroes would have tried to become her friend if not for Ruby, so she’s really the starting point of almost all of Penny’s most important relationships.

I’m so excited

We’ll do so many friendship things

Paint our nails, try on clothes, talk about cute boys

Attached but not by Strings

Another callback to V1 with “Paint our nails, try on clothes, talk about cute boys”. The nostalgia is hitting hard. But, most importantly, we have our second V8 title : Strings. The episode in which Penny’s “strings”, the ones linking her to her swords, her robot body itself, reminded us that her allusion is Pinocchio, a puppet who was given life to, but who was still a puppet for most of the movie. Penny is a living being, but her robotic body was hackable, and because of that Watts was able to use a string (the connection between her and her swords) to plant a virus inside of her, starting her descent toward her tragic end.

In the context of this song though, the meaning of this word is not quite so dark. Penny is speaking from her V1 point of view, the point of view of a girl who just met her first friend, while all her previous relationships were mainly based on her condition as the first synthetic being able to produce an aura : the soldiers keeping watch over her because she’s a precious project, the scientists working on her so she could achieve her maximum potential, Ironwood who chose the Penny project over all others so the result of this project would protect and save the world... Penny was attached to all of them and they were all attached to her, but not by feelings : by the strings of work and duty, in both ways. Ruby was the first person who attached herself to Penny and let Penny attach herself to her for other reasons, purely out of affection and desire to be friends. She was the first person Penny was free to attach herself to as well : one of the first choices Penny really made for herself. No strings attached, yet still together because they both want to be.

And when you’ve got problems

Whoa ! Then I’ve got problems too

You’ll never face this world alone

I’ll be right here it’s you

And me

Protectors of each other’s what we’ll be

First two lines are about Penny being ready to share her friend’s burdens, as friends tend to do, and this sentiment motivates the promise she makes in the next four lines, but here’s the thing : we’re still hearing Penny’s thoughts and point of view from V1. And since V1, she’s failed to make good on this promise twice : at the end of V3 and now at the end of V8, by dying, leaving Ruby alone to fend for herself, no “protector” there to guard her back and share her burdens with. Despite her best intentions, Penny cannot make good on the promise she seems to have made Ruby (or internally made, most likely) back in V1.

Now, that’s the pessimistic opinion. If you look at it from a more optimistic point of view, you could say the exact opposite thing, at least when it comes to her V3 death : Penny went so far as to overcome death to come back in V7 and by Ruby’s side. She’s done it once, and you can expect that girl to do it a second time, because she made a promise to her friend and she’s going to keep it.

You saw my soul

Through the nuts and bolts

You’re the friend I can trust

Helped me see I’m not just a machine

And is this what “All the feels” mean ?

And now we are entering the realm of V2 references ! Basically just a retelling of Penny’s big reveal and all the times Ruby has reassured her that she’s a real girl since that first time, though to be honest, I’m not sure where the last line comes from. I don’t remember hearing either of them talking about “all the feels” and even my digging in V1, 2 and 3 didn’t help, so if anyone has an idea, hit me up, ‘cause this has me stumped.

I’ve been combat-ready since the day Dad made me

Now I’ll fight for something more

Might sound wholesome but strangely

I’ve got friends I’m fighting for

This part is now about the events of V7 and 8, I believe. Everyone was friendly to Penny back in V2 and 3, after her help at the docks, but I am not certain they would have considered each other actual friends, with how little time Penny was able to spend with them, aside from Ruby. So her referring to the multiple friends she is now fighting for fits more with her situation and relationships from V7 and 8 as well as character arc in those volumes, especially since she never fought for her friends in earlier volumes (with the exception of the fight at the docks, but even then she was fighting mostly for Ruby, not really for the others). In the last two volumes however, especially V8, she had to choose between her allegiance to the military and the safety of the people she cared about, her friends as well as the people of Mantle.

But I found that humanity

It came with sacrifice, a pact

To shield you from the wicked even if I can’t

Live for real it was worth it to know you

And now we are hearing Penny’s point of view in her last moments in V8 : the moment she sacrificed herself and died a second time.

As I understand it, Penny’s humanity, her feelings, her love for her friends, is what pushed her to sacrifice herself : because she cared for them, she didn’t want them to die at Cinder’s hands, and she knew that would be what would happen if Cinder got both sets of Maiden powers : she would be unstoppable by non-Maiden and non-SEW characters. So, to “shield [her friends, and especially Ruby] from the wicked (Cinder and Salem)”, she decides to sacrifice herself to make sure that the Winter Maiden powers end up in good hands. She makes this decision knowing that she is sacrificing her life and won’t be able to live “for real”. I think this means that a part of her will survive, the part of her who will live on in Winter (and, to some extent, the part of her that will stay alive in her friends’ hearts), so she will “live on”, if only her memory and will, but even if she can’t have a life of her own, she doesn’t regret sacrificing her existence if it means protecting her friends, and especially Ruby, because knowing Ruby had made her life worthwhile.

What Penny is saying is that, if she could choose between staying alive in a world where she never met Ruby and dying in this world where they became friends, she would choose becoming Ruby’s friend and dying, because their friendship is what made life worth living for Penny.

My dreams came true

The day that you appeared

And called me “friend”

An answered prayer

A chance to

Share the world

To be a girl

Who finally felt alive

We end the song on the refrain, which isn’t all that uncommon, but has a bittersweet taste after the last part of the song : just after Penny says that she doesn’t regret dying if it means saving her friends, because Ruby made her life worthwhile, the refrain reminds us that having a friend was her dream, what she prayed for every night, the source of every good thing in her life and the one thing that made her feel alive.

So, what does this song mean for Penny And Ruby’s characters now and going forward ?

For Ruby, who was the recipient of the song, it’s hard to tell, but I think that the lines about Ruby and Penny being there for and protecting each other give us a hint : Penny failed to make good on her promise for the second time now and left Ruby alone, again. If Ruby’s feelings for Penny are half as strong as Penny’s feelings for her were, this is going to break her, especially now, after everything Ruby went through in just two days and the small breakdown she had with Yang a couple of episodes ago. Ruby is in an emotionally vulnerable state at the moment, she can’t run from her trauma and not address it like she usually does, and she will have to face whatever feelings Penny’s death will ignite in her. Considering her horror and denial when Penny asked her to kill her and take the Maiden powers, learning that Penny still died, after all their efforts to save her, is going to do a number on her.

For Penny and her arc, it is hard to say. On one hand, the end of the song make it sound like Penny is alright and at peace with her death and its circumstances, that she considers it a necessary sacrifice to save her friends, just like what Vine did in the same episode. Both of them were at peace with this decision because they knew it would take an immediate, extreme danger away from their friends and keep them safe for a while. On the other hand, there is still this promise that Penny made to herself/Ruby that she’d always be by Ruby’s side to help her face the world and her problems and the fact that she made good on that promise before by coming back to life, something that Ruby didn’t expect at all, beating the odds once, meaning she might be able to beat them again. It is odd to have a song containing this promise play right after a scene making it clear that the promise was broken for the second time and might not get fixed again if the intent was not to have Penny come back and make good on it once more.

I’ve seen the argument being made that the song is cheery and happy, unlike Cold which sounded like a eulogy, and that this difference might hint toward Penny coming back to life. However, this argument doesn’t seem viable to me because the song, as we’ve seen, focuses on all the happiness that Ruby brought to Penny’s life, how thankful Penny is for it, how that happiness made Penny’s sacrifice worth it and how this brought her peace instead of anguish and regrets. Not to mention that Cold was a song from the point of view of the survivors, not the one who had died : I’m pretty sure that if Friend had been from Ruby’s point of view after learning about Penny’s death, it would have been far less cheery.

So I really don’t know what it all means for Penny, except that her feelings for Ruby are incredibly strong and might be the key to her revival this time, if it happens.

#rwby #rwby8 #rwby spoilers #penny polendina #nuts and dolts #mechanical rose #ruby rose #yeah the song isn't outright shippy like some others can be but considering the strength of the feelings mentioned in it #I think it deserves the ship tags #analysis #long post

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nexyra · 3 years

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I got an ask for Qrow Branwen so here it comes !

My fav ship(s) for the character

I think my favorite ships for Qrow are Cloqwork and Fair Game ! Cloqwork lacked screentime in terms of canon content of course, but I love the potential here. I also have a things for shipping the sad men together xD There are a lot of REALLY great Cloqwork fanfics out there and I love seeing people write about these two <3 It's in the details but I think there's something interesting here. With Qrow who is convinced to be a curse, who came from such a harsh background... And with Ozpin who is so convinced of humanity's inherent goodness and that anyone deserves a chance. At the same time they're both very complicated people who I think would interact in cool ways. Ozpin is wise but does have a mischievous streak that I think also helped in making them both get along. Qrow is much more perceptive than he appears and that's also good for dealing with someone as secretive as Ozpin.

Fair Game also had a very good start ! The relationship was admittedly a bit tilted toward Qrow's recovery in the show, but they were nice to see together. Clover was perceptive & caring as well as patient. All great qualities for a relationship with Qrow, who has a hard time breaking down his walls and a shot mental health. At the same time, Atlas is very professional, straight-to-the-point and I think Qrow is a real breath of fresh hair in that environment. He brings a different viewpoint to the table, he's very loyal & caring and it's clear that his sass amused Clover greatly. We didn't get to learn enough about him, but Clover's VA hinted that Clover's trust was a fragile thing and he wasn't a fan of showing vulnerability. Qrow, who gives everything he has in all his relationships, would have been a great balm for that uncertainty. So yeah !

My least favorite ship(s) for the character

There are, of course, any & all ships between Qrow & the kids or Qrow & Salem's team. But outside of these obvious "nope", I'll have to go with Jailbirds. This is COMPLETELY personal but I have a really hard time liking Robyn's character as of V7 end/V8 so I'm barely interested in her dynamic with Qrow. I did appreciate her talking down Qrow from revenge because he was only doing it for his own sake but... That's about it. I find her way too abrasive (hidden behind her shiny Robinhood looks). And whereas Clover (imo) was pretty good at getting Qrow to face his issus head-on & building him up, I feel like Robyn relies more on humour & deflection... Which is an art Qrow is already acquainted with, and not the best coping mechanism for him. Aaaand I just feel like she put Clover down several time in order to lift Qrow up. That, plus the queerbaiting controversy, plus her having indirectly participated to Clover's death... The ship makes me a bit uncomfortable.

My fav & least fav platonic relationship(s) for the character

My fav platonic relationship for Qrow is his bond with Ruby ! I really hope they bring it back because these two were GREAT together. Ruby's admiration was adorable. Qrow's nonchalent but clearly protective streak. They care about each other A LOT and I really loved them together. I hope they can have more moments together like back in V3-V4 or V6.

I'm not sure what my least liked platonic relationship would be. Saying Robyn again feels like beating on a dead horse but I don't really have a problem with any other ones. They're all, if not kind & good for him, at least interesting (like Raven)

My favorite thing about the character

The combination of his sassy/cynic personnality and how loyal & caring of a person he actually he is. Qrow is rough around the edges, leans easily into banter but he cares so damn much. He fit so easily next to Ruby's peppy enthusiasm in Vol 1-3, and then he was just an incredible badass and yet so damn vulnerable human in Vol 4-6. I liked that about him. How all the pieces fit together

My biggest criticism for the character

Well I have 2 things to say about that. First : V7C12 With Friends like these. What the fuck was this episode qkfazkfhkgh Qrow's brain was nerfed SO DAMN HARD, I was genuinely pissed while watching the episode. This was just a string of dumb decisions from everyone except Tyrian. But I digress -

In a more general sense, I'd say... putting Qrow in the sidelines. Him falling further into depression was a sound decision. It was interesting and fitting of his character imo. But I feel like they tied "Ruby having enough of his alcooholism" and "Ruby growing away from adults" in a way that kind of.... just put Qrow to the side and doesn't allow him to do much. In V6 finale, Qrow expresses understandable concerns about their plan to steal an airship, but instead of dealing with that Ruby's frustration with his cynicism is aired out and... the timing kind of makes the whole thing weird becaus Qrow isn't allowed to disagree with their plan ("we'll do it with you or without you") and then has to trust Ruby and let her go which AGAIN is a great moment in itself. But all that put together just like... rid Qrow of his function as a parental figure because Ruby is the leader now and he's just... kind of following along.

When was their writing at the peak according to me (ex : best season)

Okay for this one Q, I'll have to go with Vol 4 and Vol 6 for very different reasons. V4 was great because we really got to get to know Qrow. His complicated relationship with Raven. How BADASS his encounter with Tyrian was I freaking loved it. What his semblance and how it shaped his life. And it also let him be vulnerable through the poison & seeing Ruby repay his care was very nice.

Vol 6 for fleshing out, taking his issues & drinking more seriously. Showing more hopelesness and cynicism, and that he had a real drinking problem and he wasn't just a fun drunk. Plus the loss of faith in Oz showed how much Qrow needs stability and secure certainties to orbit around despite his nonchalant personnality. But I like it a bit less because it was the starting point of putting him on the side kind of.

A song I think fits them & why

Ship in a Bottle (Steffan Argus) ➸ A song about being alone in your fight, in the sense that your life is like a sail on the ocean and you are the only captain, the only one who can choose what to do with it. At the same time, there are several mentions of a "captain" as if the singer/Qrow adresses someone else. It's reminiscent of his relation with Ozpin or Clover : speaking of a deal, of being honest and sharing what's on your mind. Qrow thinks too much, he's scared and he sinks more & more as he delves into his cynicism (V6). Qrow cries, things get worse, the mention of the glass echoes his struggle with alcooholism. And the Scarewrow loses his brain, "lose touch with all the things that made [him] feel sane."

+ Problem child (Simple Plan) The Star song (Amanda Palmer) Would anyone care (Citizen Soldier) Wasted (8 Graves)

A headcanon to make up about them

Qrow didn't have the most normal childhood and because of that he had to learn a lot for Ruby & Yang. Notably, Qrow had absolutely 0 notion of what was an appropriate presents for young girls. As a result, he tended to simply bring back from his travels whatever shiny thing might have caught his attention. Could be a weird flower. Could be a pretty knife. Or even junk that his corvid brain latched upon.

Tai designed a look(Tm) that Qrow learned to recognize as "No, not appropriate." After a while, Yang learned to mimick it (but rather at random, she didn't really recognze what was appropriate and what wasn't). Ruby always liked his presents though.

What I would change about them if I was making a re-write

I CLEARLY would rewrite V7C12 so that Qrow & Clover keep their brains kzjhfkqhzk There were ways to reach the same conclusion without like... having a Qrow-Tyran team-up which was REALLY weird

I see 2 main possibilities to stick close to canon content - After the crash, Tyrian gets free but he keeps playing dead for a bit. Since there is no 3rd menace, Clover and Qrow's argument devolve into a fight as seen in canon. At one point, Clover manages to briefly disarm Qrow. They discuss for a bit, you can even put the exact same dialog as in the ep. Then Tyrian takes action, moving out of the shadows to kill Clover with Qrow's discarded weapon. Braincells saved. OR - Instead of having Qrow & Tyrian outright team up, Tyrian just... keeps instillating doubts in their mind. Qrow & Clover are temporarily allies in taking Tyrian down but because of this, they don't TRUST each other which cause missteps and make them less effective. At one point, Qrow tries to attack Tyrian who is behind Clover. But because neither Qrow nor Clover really have faith in the other at that moment (and because Tyrian is poisonning their mind), Clover automatically steps back or aside. He doesn't entirely trust Qrow. Because of this small hesitation, Qrow's attack fails. Tyrian manages to disarm him. Tyrian uses Qrow's weapon to kill Clover. There could even be some message here about the lack of Trust & letting Salem divide friends... something of that caliber in any case 🤔 It can even parallel V3 where Qrow did the same thing with Ironwood & Ironwood refused to stand aside even if he thought Qrow meant to attack him... Could lead somewhere ! Like, in V3 Qrow had faith that Ironwood wasn't to blame. Only Ironwood feared that Qrow blamed him, but Qrow knew & trusted that Ironwood wasn't to blame. In other words, Salem didn't divide them. Here, Qrow & Clover let Tyrian get into their head. And as a result Clover dies. "Together we stand, Divided we fall"

My guess for their MBTI/Enneagram

I'm still mulling on it right now but I think he might be some kind of ISTP 416. He has some weird 7ish behaviour but his need to orbit around someone/a goal, his relationship with Oz, how close he stuck to Tai & Summer sounds closer to 6 fix. He wants people to go home to. Certainty and security. His independance definitely is there but seems emphasized moreso out of necessity.

One aspect that I think would be nice to delve deeper into ? (optional)

I'm not sure mhmmm maybe his relationship with Summer ? It would be both cute & interesting. As well as finally giving us insight into who Summer was

#rwby #qrow branwen #rwde #rwby thoughts #send asks #cloqwork #fair game #v7ch12 #with friends like these #v7 spoilers #character song #enneagram #mbti #rwby rewrite

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whitleyschn33 · 4 years

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RWBY Volume 8 Episode One: Quick Thoughts

Or not so quick, seeing how long it took me to write this and how much I ended up having to say. Spoilers (duh) under the cut, as this thing got insanely long.

So we open with a maid scrubbing a floor, a shot that lasted long enough I was starting to wonder where it was going before we cut to Cinder. So, Cinder backstory - interesting way to open the volume, but I’m not sure if it’s a good way. At the very least, I would have cut it a couple seconds, or have it flash between Cinder’s face and the flashback. Same information, but given in a quicker manner that lets us know exactly what we’re seeing instead of wonder who this random maid is for 10 seconds.

Whale aircraft carrier. The design is interesting, if looking a bit too clean for my taste. I would’ve liked to see the bones and muscles of the Grimm incorporated into the design a bit more, the surfaces less smooth and more textured, but it looks good.

Facial acting on Neo is good - I appreciate being able to see what’s running through her head, even if it also makes me wonder why Salem isn’t picking up on the obvious tells.

Emerald and Mercury are back and with new outfits; I can hear the diehard EmMerc fans screaming from here. Would’ve liked a better look at the whole outfits (I don’t think there’s even one close up of their entire bodies), but I like Mercury’s! Emerald’s model feels off to me for some reason, like it’s wider or more padded (?) than before, but it’s not a big deal and is probably just a result of her wearing a jacket now.

Oh, yeah, Hazel got one too, don’t care.

Why does the whale have a screen? A connection to one of those seer orb Grimm?

Cinder is still not interesting to me, but I am curious - can one woman hold multiple maiden powers? What happens if one woman holds them all? If they can hold multiple powers, what happens when they die? Do they both/all go to the same person, or would they split?

I like the Faunus that gives Oscar the soup. His design is pretty cute to me (I think he’s a mole Faunus?), and I feel like he’s based on something, but I’m not sure what. Getting a Narnia vibe for some reason, which I’m always on board for.

How did Ruby know where Oscar ended up? Did he call?

Weiss’s braid looks much better! I’m still not a huge fan of it, but this model is an enormous improvement - it actually looks like hair instead of rope, it’s slicker, and doesn’t look as heavy. Nice job, animators. Blake’s looks better, too, more fluffy, but it’s not as drastic a change to me.

Nice to see the Happy Huntresses actually doing something to help Mantle, and having Joanna(? that’s her name, right?) take charge and be helping Ruby get Oscar back in exchange for their aid is nice. It feels realistic for a situation like this.

And more secret keeping, but in this case, dropping the Oz bombshell would actually probably be a bad idea. There’s enough going on, bringing up Oz being back can wait until tensions aren’t as high.

Why would Ironwood stop evacuation? That makes no sense for his character, and there’s no reason to stop them. Until he gets Penny back, Atlas isn’t going anywhere. Might as well keep evacuating until you can find here, get as many people to safety as possible before getting away. I’d assume the Doylist answer for this is that Mantle still needs to be a factor in any decisions made after this and it can’t be that if we can get everyone evacuated, but that doesn’t make the Watsonian explanation make more sense.

Actually a good plan, getting everyone into the crater if it is in fact warm (why, I wonder? Thermal vents? Heat coming off of Atlas?) solves the cold problem (that people should’ve probably already died from) and having to defend one smaller location is strategically a good option. Corralling people would also make any eventual evac to Atlas easier. There is the small problem of, you know, Atlas literally crushing anyone in the crater if the staff is used on anything else, and Salem is known to be after that Staff, sooooooo -

Okay, maybe a nitpick, but I thought Pierto’s specialty was prosthetics and robotics. Doesn’t seem like something that necessarily overlaps with what’s needed to convert Amity into a satellite. I guess maybe the engine/whatever is going to propel it into the air could be similar to Penny’s boosters/whatever lets her fly, but it doesn’t seem like something that he would be involved in raising Amity. Whatever - I know we need a scientist person to tell these things to RWBY+Co and Pierto is the most likely candidate to be in a position to do that.

It seems like, from Ruby’s dialogue, she both wants to warn the other kingdoms and ask for their help. This has been trampled to death, so I won’t rant, but - there is no one that’s going to be able to help. Argus is hours away, will take time to assemble, and isn’t a very large force to begin with. Mistral is still weakened from V5 and has next to no huntsman, and is even farther than Argus. No idea what’s going on with Vale, but they’re probably still nursing their wounds from the Fall. Vacuo is the only kingdom likely to be able to muster up a force, but they’re on the other side of the map and will take hours, if not days, to get together an army - and that’s if they decide they want to help at all. The other objective was warning the Kingdoms about Salem. Ignoring that Salem is immortal and can just throw as many Grimm as she pleases until the defenses fall, ignoring that the other Kingdoms might not even believe Ruby, what’s to say they won’t go “F*ck Atlas, they’re on their own” and recall every available Huntsman and Huntress to shore up their own defenses? Or what if the other kingdoms just fall into anarchy? Learning an immortal witch with an endless supply of Grimm will come knocking on your doorstep soon tends to cause chaos. Or is Ruby going to leave the whole immortal part out again? I just can’t see what this will accomplish.

Holy shit, it’s actually happening. Dissent from WBY, and it’s coming from Yang of all people - I love it. I wish Yang had gotten to finish her sentence, say something along the lines of “Maybe if we’d told the truth immediately things wouldn’t have gone this way” since that would fit with her “hate secrets” thing she had going on in V5/6, but the fact that Yang is actually questioning Ruby’s leadership and choices - yes yes yes, more of that please, less of the hive mind. I wish it’d come a little earlier, but at this point I’ll take what I can get.

I’m slightly confused at the sides that Ren and Nora are taking here. I like that we’re splitting them up here (we never get to see them separated, and after last volume, I am more than on board with letting Ren get some breathing room), but Ren going with Yang, Jaune, and Oscar to help evacuate Mantle while Nora goes on the “bigger picture” team to get Amity up and running seems weird considering where they were last volume. Nora was always screaming about how the big picture stuff was hurting Mantle, while Ren was pushing to keep training, keep working, support Ironwood and try and work at the big picture problem, so it would seem like they should be on opposite sides. I’m not saying it makes no sense - I can absolutely see Ren feeling protective of towns under attack from Grimm with no Huntsmen in their corner - but it feels like a bit of a 180 from their last positions.

Did Oscar just call Jaune “John”?

Yeah, if nothing else, don’t let Penny get anywhere near Salem or her cronies. Salem can absolutely not be allowed to get her hands on the Staff, especially with the whole “get everyone to the crater” plan. Squish.

Yang and Blake splitting up, maybe we can actually get some conversations on what the hell is up with them that we should have gotten in V6/V7 instead of petty showing off and Nora projecting.

“But what about Mantle?” “Oh, I’m helping Mantle.” with the same thing you spent all last volume complaining about. Uh-huh, that’s not annoying.

Weiss has an idea on how to get up to Atlas - Winter’s ship, maybe? That one she came in on in V3 was her personal ship, wasn’t it?

Ironwood calls Penny. From the music, it sounds like they were aiming for foreboding and manipulative, but Ironwood just sounds tired, the poor man. Love how Ruby doesn’t even try for a comeback for Ironwood’s argument, really convincing.

Dead Clover, and I hope that he stays that way, because if he’s brought back to life, so much of V6′s themes of life and death and the natural cycle is just going to be spit on (again). Clover is dead, and there should be no way around that save interference from a literal god. Any attempt at bringing him back needs some kind of drawback - some prevision of life, a body that moves but his soul isn’t there, something, please RT, don’t double back on your “Death is permanent” thing again.

And Ironwood did lose his arm completely. It’s an awesome looking prosthetic, but the fact that it’s black when the rest of his prosthetics are silver, combined with the comments made by the CRWBY about Ironwood’s humanity, make me very afraid they’re going to go for some sort of bullshit parallel to Cinder’s black Grimm arm. I do like the orchestral version of Hero playing here, though.

I like Winter’s new hair style - similar enough to her previous one, but looser. Not exactly happy about what that might symbolize, but it looks really good. It looks like she might have nerve damage, though, which would mean she might be off the battlefield until she can get her hands (hah) on some sort of brace to help her move her hands (which might be hinted at in the OP~)

I do really like Ironwood and Winter’s relationship, please don’t f*ck it up, CRWBY.

Is the only thing CRWBY knows how to do to make Ironwood seem like the bad guy shoot people for no goddamn reason? Ironwood was surrounded by loyal soldiers after declaring martial law, there was no reason for him to not just order Slate detained (that one was Slate, right? Not that it matters). The man’s annoying and probably in cahoots with Jacques, but shooting him is out of character, excessive, and makes no sense when he could just be arrested. “It shows he’s slipping -” No. It’s lazy writing meant for shock value and to give characters a reason to go “Oh, he’s going evil now, I better question my loyalty to him” (based on the look Winter and Harriet share) rather than any actual flaw in his plans maybe because CRBY realized that Ironwood’s plans are rational and the best one on the table right now, so they can’t use that to turn people against him. F*ck that.

Salem sends a bloodhound or whatever after Oscar, we already saw this bit in the trailers. No comment.

TLDR: Once again, RWBY sets up a lot of stuff that I find interesting and want to see more of. However, their treatment of Ironwood doesn’t make me optimistic for them to treat him right, and RWBY has a track record of setting up good concepts/plots/characters/arcs and then failing to execute them well or at all. We’ll have to see if V8 actually lives up to the promise or falls flat due to the issues that plagued V6 and V7 .

Going to make a whole new list for the OP because dear Lord, this thing is dense.

This song is definitely more in line with RWBY’s usual sound than Trust Love, and I’m all for that. The beat is a little hinky to me - it’s going to take a few re-listens to get used to it - and once again I wish the lyrics were clearer, but I know people that weren’t as happy with V7′s sound will be happy with this return to form.

Establishing shots of Mantle going to hell, nice use of red and contrast, but I wish there was a bit more use of shadow to really sell the red coming from fires and emergency lights.

Ruby standing alone, turning to find the others standing at the ready to fight, but away from her and with their backs turned. Any chance of more dissent? Will we actually get some growth from Ruby, in regards to her leadership in particular? We can only hope.

The four girls, on a blackish/blue background with floating warm lights, with images of their V1 selves in their clothes/hair/weapons. I really love the animation in the portion, the girls look so good. It also makes me wish we’d get some sort of flashback to V1-3, because I want more of their Beacon designs in the new animation style. The fact that this background/setting shows up again later in the trailer makes me wonder if it might be what the interior of the Atlas vault looks like. No basis for that, just a random thought. Couple minor nitpicks, focused on Yang. The fact that she’s the only one not in a more dynamic pose (and this is Yang of all people) seems odd, and the way her hair flows looks weird to me based on the angles and whatnot. Putting her in a different pose like a charge would fix this, letting her hair flow more naturally and giving them the space they need to to add in her past self. Otherwise, gorgeous.

Ironwood with Atlas inside him, slowly being overtaken by the red as he looks up. No real comment other than beautiful.

Clover dropping his pin, with the AceOps and Qrow in the leaves, before transitioning to Qrow taking Robyn’s hand in prison. It looks like Harriet will be taking over as team leader. I don’t have a lot to say here - Marrow’s the only AceOp I’m interested in, and Qrow and Clover’s relationship has never been compelling for me. Robyn, similarly, is not a character I like, so a Qrow/Robyn team-up jailbreak isn’t something that I’m interested in unless Watts is involved. Already teamed up with one villain, Qrow, why stop there?

Oscar in pain holding his head, while Grimm eyes surround him and then Salem with wyvern wings comes out and looms over him preparing to grab him. I like the visual of Salem as the Wyvern at Beacon, but her face looks almost doofy in this shot. I think it’s the lack of expression mixed with the eyes. If she had a more menacing expression, I think this would work a lot better.

The falling weapons of the girls, Crescent Rose with Myrtenaster and Gambol Shroud with Ember Celica. Cue the shippers.

Jaune with his sword in front of his face, pulling it down to be at the ready, with Nora and Ren in the far background, their backs turned on each other but looking sad at their positions. I know Jaune’s thing is probably generic, but it gives me Mulan vibes, which is funny considering. Hey, hint that Martial Arcs will become canon now that Renora is on the rocks? fingers crossed More of Ren and Nora’s rough patch, and I really hope that that gets some focus. Their kiss last volume left a bad taste in my mouth with how it went down, and getting into these two as separate characters and their relationship. Ren not requiting Nora’s romantic feelings towards him would be a really interesting place to go with these characters that everyone’s pegged together since episode 4 (in no small part due to their lack of interaction with anyone else, but I’ll get to that).

Winter and Weiss walking towards each other on the Schnee symbol, passing each other by with Winter getting her new hairstyle and a brace of some sort. She’s actually wearing this brace in the hospital, but on the other arm, while now it’s on the arm she couldn’t bend her fingers with. Interesting, and it looks all looks really good!

The Schnee snowflake falls between Whitley and Willow, before shattering onto a chessboard. YESSSS, Whitley’s in the intro again! That’s more than I could’ve hoped, and I really really hope that him looking contemplatively like that means something - that’s he’s figuring things out, coming up with a plan, something! Still no new design though T-T CRWBY, what do I have to do to get my boy some new clothes?

From the chessboard, Salem rises up, turning the other black pieces into Grimm to attack the white where Ironwood stands. His pieces turn to dust, the board blowing away entirely. Nice callback to V1. Ironwood stands alone - no allies, and no space to move forward. He’s a king with nowhere to move - check or checkmate.

Smug Watts hacking while leaning against a mirror, rotates to show Pierto doing the same, his reflection looking over its shoulder at him, then a pan to Penny to show the same thing before the mirror breaks. I’m not sure what this might symbolize. Inability to trust yourself, maybe?

A snowflake flies through the air and lands in Ren’s palm. It turns into a flower petal, (or scraps his hand, I can’t quite tell) then Yang, Jaune, and Oscar join him, Ren smiling to Jaune. Another flower petal flies by to transition to Nora, who reaches out but can’t catch it, looking dismayed until RWBP comes in to join her. I assume the symbolism is straight-forward - the snowflake turns to a petal when caught by Ren (lotus guy), then flies to Nora who can’t catch it. Really living for the Ren focus in the op~

Pans to a shot of the whole group in the middle of everything - Atlas and Mantle overrun with Grimm on one side, Salem’s whale and Grimm army on the other, and Amity in the middle, which Penny flies up to hover below. Penny is going to be vital to launching Amity, and probably for reasons other than the terminal.

Then Ruby and Yang looking at each other with a smile and nod before the girls jump into fighting some Grimm. Interesting bit when the volume opens with the sisters starting to have disagreements.

The entire thing freezes, Cinder strolling cockily past the crew to walk in front of a bored/disgruntled Neo and Emerald who starts to wave but looks dejected when Cinder ignores her. Not much to say here - I don’t really like the freeze frame for some reason, no idea why. This also doesn’t give us any new info on the dynamics between these three characters.

Cinder grabs her Grimm arm in pain as fire flares up behind her, transitioning into Merc, Tyrian, Hazel, and Salem with the lamp in her eyes, transitioning to the lamp and staff twirling around each other, both emitting smoke like they’re being used as they come together. I wonder if this means that the last question and the Staff are going to be used, and maybe together? Once again, though - Atlas falling, people in the crater die.

Smoke clears up to reveal Ruby, looking up to Atlas first in invasion mode, then peaceful. Turn to a shot of the group standing looking to the left, Yang and Ruby looking like they’re posed but the others just kind of standing there. It’s a weird shot, and I’m not sure what to make of it, honestly.

The ice breaks beneath Ruby’s feet, sending RWBY falling into a void, their bodies trailing those lights that we saw before. Ruby opens her eyes to see the brightest light, the Staff. She reaches out to it, but Grimm paws and hands drag her down. V6 callback?

The word Happy? flashes only to be crossed out, a sketchy Grimm roaring, then the words Ever then Never as it’s crossed out, with a sketchy Penny lifting her head and her eyes then face going red, then the words After Again being crossed out. I’m not really of the words - I think it’s going for a Happily Ever After Happy? Never Again thing, but there’s no Happily that I can see, and it just kind of comes across as a bit emo to me. I like the sketches of the Grimm and Penny - I think it might be a Wyvern Grimm or something like that, and the red spreading from Penny’s eyes to her entire outline is interesting. I wonder if it’s connected to the Maiden powers and how she’ll use them.

Sketches of RWBY’s weapon fall into the snow, Crescent Rose falling with the tip stuck in the snow, then a flash and a pull out to Crescent Rose in the snow in full animation, framed by the broken moon as rose petals fly by with the “Created by Monty Oum” credit appears. I really like this as a reference to the Red trailer, and compared to the very cluttered ending shot of V7, this is a nice change of pace.

I like this OP. It’s definitely above V7′s for me, with a good song and some beautiful animation in it’s visuals. If I had to criticize it, I would say that it feels very long and cluttered. My breakdown of the opening feels as long as everything I mentioned in the actual episode. I realize one was going almost shot by shot, while the other summarized, but the point still stands that this things feels longer than it needs to be (I’d have to check time stamps to see if it is actually significantly longer).

A more promising start, all in all, than I’d hoped for. Things irritate me for sure, Ironwood’s treatment, Ruby’s plan, all that stuff, but I know I would have those bones to pick going in. The shake-up of the usual teams and the promise of inter-group conflict is enough to get me to want more, and I look forward to seeing how my favorite characters will be utilized.

What are your thoughts on the episode? Reblog and comment down below, and we’ll start a convo.

Until next time~

#rwby #rwby8 #rwby volume 8 #rwby8 spoilers #rwby 8 spoilers #ruby rose #weiss schnee #blake belladonna #yang xioa long #episode breakdown

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paipayaseeds · 3 years

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even the knuckles of her hand were dusted pink from her embarrassment. she noticed how easily shuichi was able to open the door, and she envied him (only a little). “s-shuichi...!” she said, tripping over her feet from the brisk pace he was walking in. he must’ve been too caught up in his own thoughts since she got no response. she clasped her other hand around his as they practically ran to the dining hall. once they got there, all eyes were on them. holding hands. she immediately took her hands away from his, both of her arms parallel with her torso. she bowed awkwardly and shuffled over towards a seat. the one next to her was empty, and she looked up and shuichi to see if he was going to sit there.

ryoma shot them both- well, mostly shuichi- a glare. a look akin to a father telling his daughter’s boyfriend, “if you hurt her, so help me god...” when the door slammed open to reveal miu (and a cowering kiibo behind her) fumiko got so scared that she pushed her chair backwards, rolling onto the floor. she laid there for a second, wallowing in her own stupidity before getting up. kirumi rushed over, “are you hurt? is everything alright?” fumiko nodded, just wanting this all to be done and over with.

“attention, everyone. i believe there is something wrong with miu. i found her on the floor of the dormitories, wheezing. she hasn’t stopped since we left!”

“e-everything’s alright robo-dick, i-i just- HAHAHAHA” her laughing started up again when she got a glance of the couple “friends” sitting next to each other. “you guys will NOT believe what i saw this morning!”

“that’s enough.” said ryoma, his voice intimidating the taller girl. despite his size, that man was terrifying. “y-yes sirrrr....” she muttered, confidence seeming to fade away in an instant as she found a seat at the dining table. kiibo just stood there, completely confused as to what just happened. to be fair, everyone had a similar look of confusion, but kiibo’s was the worst. rantaro quirked an eyebrow, wondering if this was about what he thought it was...

“alright, everyone’s here, yes? please, tell me what you’d like for breakfast.”

multiple shouts of “eggs” or “toast” overlapped, yet kirumi was able to keep track of all of them.

“ICE-CREAM!!!” yelled kokichi, who had a fork in one hand and a knife in the other, neither of which are utensils to eat ice-cream with. fumiko, who had spent most of her life feeding herself, perked up at the mention of ice-cream. it wasn’t rare for her to have such foods for breakfast, normally, so she spoke.

“a-ah, can i have some too! c-chocolate if that’s okay...!”

“CHOCOLATE FOR ME TOO! WITH CHOCOLATE SYRUP AND SPRINKLES!”

kirumi nodded, jotting it down on a little notepad as if she were a waitress at a restaurant. “and what would you like, shuichi?” she asked, writing down his answer as well before giving everyone a smile and heading to the kitchen. once again, fumiko fell out of her chair when she felt a pair of arms hook under her armpits and lift her. well, trying to lift her, at least.

“there’s only room for one chocolate-eater in this town, partner...” they both ended up on the floor, as kokichi had pretty much been wrestling her. “h-hey!” she said when he pulled her hair. she started fighting back, rolling around on the floor (which was thankfully clean, thanks to kirumi). the other captives had gained interest, some yelling at kokichi to stop. she eventually managed to push him down, straddling him, giggling as she looked down. “what’re you gonna do now, cowboy? that chocolate ice-cream is mine!” she said in a bad country accent. when he opened his mouth to speak, she took his scarf and flipped it over onto his face, muffling his over-dramatic cries for help.

kokichi was glad that she wasn’t mad at him. and, in all honesty, he didn’t think she was so bad. even in a situation like this, he was allowed to make friends, right? (*laughs in playing v3 and watching kokichi push away everyone who wanted to get close to him*) she let go of his scarf when he pretended to die, all of his flailing limbs falling to the ground as he tilted his head to the side. her hands were at either side of his head, looking down as she laughed, unaware of how things might��ve looked.

-teapot anon (your status had me whEEZING)(ALSO DONT MAKE FUN OF FUMIKOS TWIG ARMS >:( /j)(so basically i didn’t know where this was going you gave me too much freedom with the last one so i just wrote words)(hope they’re good words <3)

Ice cream? It hardly seemed like something healthy to eat for breakfast, he thought as soon as Kokichi had shrieked out the food item. He found himself opening his mouth to voice his thoughts, but as soon as Fumiko raised her voice too, he shut himself up.

Wait.

Was he the weird one for not wanting to eat ice cream for breakfast?

Shuichi's momentary train of thought had been interrupted by Kirumi's question. “Huh? O- oh, um,” Shuichi had to think long and hard for this one; after yesterday, he wouldn’t want to smell any worse than he already had, so definitely nothing too strong smelling. “E- eggs?” Yup, you can’t go wrong with eggs. "Wait no, b- bread." Yeah, bread is good too, it's pretty plain so it has no smell— Oh shit, what about crumbs? "N- not bread! U- Uh," so here he was, having a mini breakdown about what to eat for breakfast. "G- granola?" What if it sticks to your teeth, dumbass!?

Shuichi jolted up and whipped his head away from Kirumi to down at the two that had been rolling around together on the ground. “O- Ouma, st- stop! What... What are you doing...!?”

Maybe the detective would've been jealous that Kokichi had been having fun with her; but at the same time, he couldn't find any part of himself wanting to roll on the ground, no matter how appealing it may seem.

"W-what the hell!? If I wanted to watch porn, I would've watched it on the huge TV in my lab!" Miu spoke, eyes dilated in shock as the two squealed on the ground.

Shuichi had to push down the urge to glare at the inventor, as he was too busy trying to get them off each other. "Y- You guys can both have the ice cream...??" Shuichi's speech had come out more of a question than a statement— and for good reason! How would you react if the girl you had been in love with for less than a week, started pinning another guy to the ground?

He just wanted them to be... a bit... farther apart. Their proximity unsettled him, for a reason he refused to confront. "U-um..." Absentmindedly, he tugged at the fabric of Fumiko's dress, eyes averted as he tried to think of a good excuse to say to get her to crawl off of him.

Kokichi seemed to notice this, and his evil tendencies rose to the surface once again as he flipped their position(oh no), careful not to hurt the girl but still quick enough to catch her off guard. Shuichi's breath hitched as his grip had loosened as to not rip her dress from the sudden movement Kokichi had performed with her.

Kokichi, unlike the girl he had pinned underneath her, had been well aware of their compromising position— actually, almost too aware of it. "Nishishi! I win!"

Shuichi's eyebrows furrowed, patience thinning and jealousy bubbling up to his chest, "Kokichi, stop!" oh whoops, that may have sounded a bit more aggressive than he wanted it to-

His vocal cue came out more like a growl than a scolding; he had definitely shocked everyone from the loud tone, though most of all, he had positively shocked himself.

#mod chia #rp #teapot anon

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thornsnfeathers · 4 years

Text

Salem & Qrow in v8

Had some thoughts about the parallels between them and how that might be potrayed in v8 so here I am, trying to write them down in a vaguely understandable manner.

This probably will turn out to be a long post and it might not even make much sense, you have been warned! I thought about all of this while being convinced that the Staff of Creation theory is going to be canon so read this with that in mind. And now, let’s get started.

In v7ch7, we have Oscar and Ironwood talk about the difference between them and Salem and the comment from the latter about her always bothered me.

And that got me thinking... We have seen her story through Jinn’s vision and words. What made her what she is now? What made her swear revenge on the Gods and leave her humanity behind?

It was losing her lover and failing to bring him back.

Considering the parallels that several people have already pointed out, Salem and Qrow’s stories mirror each others.

They both are now the ones that lived. The ones that had to deal with the loss of someone that saved them from their isolation, someone that tear down the walls surronding them, giving them the freedom to be themselves, free of their shackles.

I have some few points supporting them meeting each other very soon:

- Qrow is the only one from Ozpin’s inner circle that hasn’t met Salem “face-to-face” yet, since Dorothy (Ruby/Summer?), the Cowardly Lion (Lionheart) and the Tinman (Ironwood) all have at this point

- Salem is literally in Atlas so they are very close

- This point is more another guess than an actual fact but: he will probably lose his mind (because, well, Scarecrow) for a while so he won’t be much about killing her as he was in the past and he might actually listen to what she tells him

We have seen that with both Ruby and Ironwood she used their weaknesses against them. It’s not clear (or at least it isn’t to me) if she can actually read people’s minds/affect them in some way or the other or if she just had previous knowledge, but if she knows who she is interacting with she definitely can twist the knife deeper and she will do it. So, I wonder, what can she exploit with Qrow?

Salem is smart and we know already that she picks up her allies if she can use them, and Qrow is very suitable for a role in her group. He hasn’t cleared up his situation with Ozpin, he’s away from the kids and the one person he was opening up to died in front of him after they fought each other for something that wasn’t worth any of that. He is going to blame himself and his semblance and, like Blake at the end of v3, will likely step away from those he cares about because he will convince himself that that’s the only way he can avoid hurting them. And, for yet another parallel to Blake, he will (temporarly) forgo his main goal (defeating/fighting Salem for him, reforming the White Fang/killing Adam for her) and retreat to himself.

(To address the elephant in the room, I don’t think that Tyrian will cross Qrow’s mind in this instance. Yes, he was the one to deal the blow but the show clearly pointed his anger towards Ironwood in a very direct (or on-the-nose) way. The “I’ll kill you!” might foreshadow how the faunus will die but that is probably something that will happen in Vacuo or later on)

Considering all these factors, this is the best time for Salem to try to sway him. Either by reading his mind or maybe Tyrian briefing her on what happened, she will know how to poke in the right places. Qrow is an amazing fighter and can be a good resource for her, since he’s close to the ones that are in her way and he’s still one of Oz’s protégés.

But what can she promise him to put doubts in his mind?

I’ve been dancing around this point for a while and I haven’t really decided on something yet but I’d bet it would involve Clover’s return. Mind you, I am convinced of him getting back to life through the Staff and not other... unhappy variations I’ve read thrown around but, at that point in time, Qrow probably didn’t even consider his return as an option yet. This can be the moment where he realizes that, maybe, he has the chance to “turn this ship around” *winks at Brand New Day while crying*, so to speak.

It’s also a very good way to make the parallels between Salem/Qrow and Ozma/Clover crystal clear. She would definitely bring up the fact that she knows how he feels, having the one you love snatched away too soon, to rile him up on how unfair and pointless it all is.

The good ol’ tactic of “we are not so different, you and I”

I don’t think he’d side with her even because that would make him go against his nieces but this might the one moment where the show could actually make us believe he will. He’s the Scarecrow with no brain, right?

And now for the second point I wanted to make with this post!

We have seen the main group react to meeting/seeing Salem for the first time. Who are we missing?

This guy!

Because ok, if you bring a character back to life, you won’t do that just to have him stay for a scene and then forget him to move on to something else, would you? Penny came back and became the Winter Maiden, for crying out loud!

So how about him reacting to Salem after he comes back?

He has been shown as the brave and fearless leader. We have seen the others cower in fear, none of them stood their ground (understandably, I might add) even in front of what was just a shadow of her. How about having him meet her... and not back down? (I know we don’t know how Summer’s meeting with Salem went but I always thought she and Clover might have parallels on their own going on but that’s for another time and place)

But then I asked myself. How will SHE react to Clover?

We have only seen her as the evil one. The characterization we had of her in v6 showed her pain but mostly her quest for revenge decently. But if crwby wants to give her more depth this is a good chance to do so. To let her actually face the defeat that started all of it.

Because Clover would be the living (ah) proof someone succeded where she failed so long ago.

The man that came back to his loved one.

And Salem, witnessing this, for the first time, will hesitate. It will be when she will look into Clover’s eyes and recognize the same gallant soul she once saw in Ozma and falter, ever so slightly.

Because victory isn’t in strenght. It’s in the connections you make.

#salem #qrow branwen #clover ebi #ozma #rwby #i put hours into this and i'm still not sure how clear i made it so uh. yeah. sorry?#i just think their parallel is neat!!#the lost fable is probably one of my favourite episodes so that doesn't help me

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 4 years

Link

I will respond to this. But in future I’m asking you and others not to send me things like this please.

“This month, Marvel Comics relaunched Amazing Spider-Man with a Nick Spencer as head writer, marking the end of Dan Slott's long run with the title and an end of the "Brand New Day" era of Spider-History.”

The problems start here. BND ended before Slott’s solo run began.

“ Spencer's run begins with a bit of a bang.

Well, about as much of a bang as you get from kissing the same person you've known for 50 years.”

This is a reductive and childish mentality towards romance and sex. It prioritizes the novelty and excitement of ‘new love’ (which is scientifically guaranteed to last like 2 years tops) over the deeper and ultimately more potent emotions attached to proper love, which in truth is kind of like friendship on steroids.

In this specific case it’s especially stupid as, putting aside fan reactions, the fact that Peter and Mj were back together after 10+ years was OBVIOUSLY going to be a shocking moment. A ‘bang’ if you will. This is like saying it wasn’t a moment of audience interest whenever Ross and Rachel seemingly got back together or when Monica and Chandler initially got together. They too had known one another for a long time, a roughly equivalent time for their character and Peter and MJ in-universe.

“This has come after Peter and Mary Jane have been apart for about a decade. This recent "surprise" get-back-to-gether is the same sort of "exciting development" that happens eventually after Marvel breaks a couple up, or kills someone in one of their books (See the Hulk, Jean Grey, Peter Parker during Superior Spider-Man, etc. etc. etc.) Peter and Mary Jane getting back together (apparently) is sort of a big deal.”

Yes. Because fans WANTED them to be back together.

Fans aren’t in this for the roller coaster of novelty. They don’t want Spidey or Superman to be with anyone OTHER than MJ or Lois. By the same token the majority do not want anyone other than Luthor or Joker to be Superman or Batman’s archenemies.

“See, in 2007 Marvel Comics made the bold decision to end the marriage between Spider-Man and his longtime wife, Mary Jane Watson.”

Watson Parker

It wasn’t bold it was asinine

How bold is it when it was the third such attempt to do that? “At the time, fans lost their shit.” And they are STILL angry about it. “You can't really blame them because the deed was done in the most asinine way. For some reason, divorce was out of the question. The alternative was somehow more awful. After Peter's Aunt May got shot in the bo-bo at the end of Civil War, Spider-Man literally made a deal with the devil to save her life.” WTF is a bo-bo? “What did this change exactly? Well, the events of Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 didn't end in a marriage. So everything that happened after was still the same except Peter amd MJ were a common-law couple. Or something.” And MJ was never pregnant, and all the shit specifically related to their wedding rings, dress, photos, anniversary couldn’t have happened and given how to them marriage wasn’t a piece of paper then this would have massive ramifications for their relationship quite a part from the fact there would now be a massive sore spot in their relationship. “Anyway, like I said, a lot of longtime fans hated it.” No. MOST longtime fans hated it. And most SHORT time fans also hated it. And even many newer fans who jumped on-board after it hated it too. “You know, the audience they weren't trying to appeal to anymore.” Which was idiotic. You don’t try to gain a new audience by throwing away your old one. You try to retain the old audience and bring new people into the fold at the same time. Noticeably this happened in the 1990s. This failed to happen after OMD and it failed to happen with the Nu52 which was the OMD for the whole DC universe. The latter failed so badly they reverse rebooted many characters, Superman chief among them. Superman’s financial and critical reception increased when they brought back the OLD Superman who was married (and now a father to boot) and used him to replace the younger, single and hip Superman most people disliked. The OLD fans returned. Shockingly appealing to the old AND new fans is possible. “Still, they came up with a storyline that would be relatable to younger readers, and still be relevant to longtime readers as well”

It wasn’t a storyline it was an era

No. It absolutely wasn’t relatable or relevant to younger readers. I was 16-19 when BND was running. I was directly the demographic they were trying to appeal to. Let me tell you straight. Those stories were not relatable. At all. They weren’t relevant. At all. The PS4 game’s take? Now that shit was reltable but noticeably that version only takes plot concept from BND. The characterization of Peter is far more in line with his pre-OMD self and didn’t represent a regression of the character

Thousands of people became Spider-Man fans reading the marriage era Spidey comics. If it was so unrelatable how is that possible?

The stories were not relevant to the older audience at all because the whole purpose of BND was to basically ignore 90% of Spider-Man history between 1987-2007. And more importantly even the characteriation before then that they were trying to invoke was done incorrectly. The Spidey of BND was a systemically mischaracterizion of Spider-Man even if yu ignored OMD “The fiscal reasoning made sense, there were Spider-Man films that were out roping in a new generation kids who wouldn't relate to a married Spider-Man.”

There was a 5 season long TV show before those movies aimed directly at children. Kids got into Spidey through that and we didn’t care he was married. In fact he was married on the show

To 90s/2000s teens and tweens the struggles of Spidey in the 1994 cartoon and Raimi movies were not all that relatable. The male members of the cartoon audience were too young to be interested in romance and all the demographics were unlikely to relate to Peter’s financial struggles as they were too young to work. Even if they weren’t too young to work they wouldn’t have been the breadwinner of the household the way they might’ve been in the 1960s. By the 1990s and 2000s times had changed

Peter had become a MAN like halfway through the first Raimi movie and that wasn’t even the most popular or successful one. Spider-man 2, where Peter was distinctly an adult and grappling with adult problems, was

Kids have been unlikely to relate to Batman. In fact as times have changed it’s evident they infinitely prefer Batman to Robin, the character actually created specifically for them to relate to. Batman is at least as popular as Spider-Man, if not moreso

The MCU has made Iron Man and Black Panther (who kids could never truly relate to) and Captain America (whom few people regardless of age could ever relate to as he is almost a moral paragon) fan favourite characters. CLEARLY relatability is at best highly subjective and at worst not essential to making a character appealing

BND occurred after Spider-Man 3 where Peter wanted to marry Mary Jane. If anything the JMS era of Spidey where he was married to the main love interest from the movies and where Aunt May knew who he was would’ve been MORE synergetic with the movies of the time than what BND was “Also, times have changed. Fans freaked out that Spider-Man was no longer married and back to living at Aunt May's home? At the time Peter Parker was in his late 20s (Marvel Time).” No, at the time he was 30 years old. “If this is basically you in 2018, you had no reason to bitch about Brand New Day.” Get fucked. Fans had EVERY reason to bitch about BND back then AND now too. Putting aside how we got there (which would be reason enough) the stories themselves were objectively deplorable! “Looking back at the storyline 10 years after the fact,” It’s not a storyline. It was an era. “it's hard to understand what the big deal was.” It’s hard to understand mischaracterization, illogic, continuity contradictions, sexism, racism, juvenile writing, character deconstruction, borderline gaslighting of the fans, talking down to the audience, price gouging, inconsistent writing and art and just generally bad storytelling? “Because I secretly hate myself, I decided to read every Spider-Man comic published.” I somehow doubt that. Even if it’s true there is a massive difference between reading a story and understanding it. Dan Slott READ a lot of Spider-Man. He knew a lot of Spider-Facts. But he clearly never understood the character. He might KNOW MJ shut that door in ASM #122. But he absolutely doesn’t grasp it’s deeper meaning. “I started about a year ago, and I'm just hitting stories published in 2007. In retrospect, there are a lot of shitty Spider-Man stories. Some of them weren't as bad as they were made out to be (The Clone Saga, being one of them, surprisingly) One thing about the Peter/MJ marriage (which ran from 1987 to 2007) is you quickly realize their marriage was horrible.” Sure. If you are a bad literary analyst, sexist, crap at contextualization and apply a blunt criteria instead of nuance. If you don’t you get that there were ups and downs with the writing as would be expected of almost anything written across 20 years by multiple writers. “Especially for Mary Jane.” Oh cool, sexist it is then. “It wasn't good, it was a burden to telling good stories.” Kraven’s Last Hunt Sensational Spider-Man Annual 2007 Spider-Man Unlimited v3 #2 Story 2 Parallel Lives Anything by JMS involving MJ Revelations Spec #200 Spec #241-245 Sensational v2 #32 Marvel Knights: Spider-man #1-12 And many other stories I could name say otherwise genius. “This is because the writers involved at the time didn't seem to understand how a marriage works.”

JMS clearly did

DeMatteis clearly did

DeFalco clearly did

Sacasa clearly did

Peter David clearly did

Mark Millar clearly did

Even Bendis clearly did

Maybe it’s not how YOUR marriage works. But everyon’es marriage is a different “The marriage was, at best, an excuse for an instant damsel in distress situation,” Remember how the marriage was used as an instant damsel-in-distress situation in KLH? Remember how that was ALL it amounted to in the Eisner nominated Sensational Spider-Man Annual 2007? Remember how badly MJ was in need of rescuing in the Jonathan Caesar storyline? “or at worse a reason for Peter Parker to go on about how "lucky" he was to be married to a model/actress. Like Mary Jane was nothing more than a trophy to pride himself because he was such a fucking loser in high school.” Yes. Peter never argued with MJ. Peter never confided his concerns with MJ. MJ never alleviated his guilt. MJ never grew as a person from her horrible childhood issues through being married with Peter. MJ didn’t become more self-sacrificing due to Peter. Peter was never pushed to become more powerful by thoughts of his believed wife. They never helped one another through traumatic situations. “What I really want to stress here is, Peter and Mary Jane's marrage was awful.” Nah fam. YOUR analytical skills are awful. “Worst. Idea. Ever.” Nah fam. You writing this was the worst idea ever. Scratch that, me subjecting myself to this shit was the worst idea ever. “Can't take my word for it? Here are some reasons why: Mary Jane Had to Swat Away So Many Dicks” An attractive woman with a very public profile draws unwanted attention? How unrealistic! It’s terrible that such a thing would never happen in real life, real life being the baked into the core concept of Spider-Man. Why if it did it’d be a organic way to give MJ subplots and conflicts of her own to deal with that could impact upon Peter’s life by extension or something. “Almost from the start, Mary Jane had to fend off other men who were obsessed with her and didn't give a shit that she was married. That's not necessarily Peter's fault, but it really says a lot of the opinion towards female characters in comics at the time.” …how…? This happens in real life…A LOT! And what has ‘Peter’s fault’ got to do with this? It’s not even a statement that warrants a ‘necessarily’. What? If Peter was more ‘Alpha’ other men would know not to try it on with ‘his woman’ or something? Also, let’s properly contextualize things okay. Between 1987-2007 MJ was stalked by like 5 people. That’s once every 4 years if you average it out but 3/5 of them occurred in Michelinie’s run alone which is not the be all or end all of the marriage. Another one was for a single issue and the final one was actually obsessed with Peter and used MJ to get to him. I ain’t saying it didn’t get old but this guy is making it out to be something that was an annual event. “Sure, the idea of someone stalking an actress/model isn't outlandish, and a sad fact of the celebrity-driven reality we live in.” YOU DON’T SAY! And it doesn’t just apply to actresses or models btw. “However, the number of times this was used as a plot got a bit out of hand.” I agree. But 5 times across 20 years, when there was a 5 year gap between the third and fourth instances and a 5 year gap between the fourth and final instance (lasting for 1 issue and wasn’t even the main plot) is not reflective of anything. “That said because it's a Spider-Man comic book they couldn't just settle on a dumpy guy wearing sticky jogging pants. They had to kick it up a notch. With horrific implications for poor Mary Jane.” …yeeeeeeeeeeah? And? Stalkers are horrible. You want there to be tension and conflict so the threat of violence is absolutely justifiable. FFS, kraven the Hunter buried Spider-Man alive and Venom threatened to eat parts of him. And VENOM was Spidey’s stalker! “Jonathon Caesar An obsession so cliche, I'm surprised that nobody made a joke about his knife compensating for having a small dick.” Except circa 1989 it wasn’t cliché. At least not as far as a Spidey comic was concerned. If we are opening this up to ALL media then sure but then by that logic Gwen’s death and countless other stories would also be cliché wouldn’t they. “The first scum bag to enter Mary Jane's married life was Jonathon Caesar. He was a wealthy man with a lot of connections.” …Almost like Harvey Weinstein or something… “He helped Mary Jane get into the Bedford Towers condominium (which Caesar owned). His motivation? To kidnap a married woman and force her to live in a specially made trap room until she agreed to marry him. Spider-Man didn't even save the day! Mary Jane broke free on her own and the wall-crawler showed up in time to do the cleanup.” Holy shit. If anyone ever needed proof this doofus’s analytical skills weren’t there this is it. The Jonathan Caesar storyline was designed to be a subversion of the damsel-in-distress trope. The whole fucking POINT was that MJ saved herself instead of Spidey saving her! Jesus Christ how do you miss that. Not to mention how do you complain Caesar as a villain is cliché but then ALSO complain that the damsel-in-distress cliché wasn’t adhered to. “Caesar went to jail but he used his influence to ruin her modeling career and get her evicted from their home.” *coughWeinsteincough* “Not only that, but MJ's money got tied up in a lengthy legal battle, with no apparent end in sight. In fact the money mentioned here is never talked about again.” Er…yes it is. MJ ultimately settles in ASM #333 wiping out her savings. I’d have thought someone who read every Spider-Man comic book would have known that. “Caesar eventually got out of jail and continued to stalk Mary Jane.” Again, clearly hasn’t read every Spider-Man comic book and/or is a shitty analyst. Yes Caesar did this but he did this BEFORE MJ engaged him in a legal battle. “Her husband didn't do squat to stop it.” What was he supposed to do? Caesar was out legally and Peter couldn’t just kill or assault the guy. Threatening him would likely have helped Caesar’s legal case further, especially due to the public knowing about the association between Peter and Spidey. Touching Caesar would be like trying to get the Kingpin locked up. It’s extremely difficult for someone that rich and powerful. “He was too busy playing Spider-Man to help his own wife.” No. He was busy saving the lives of innocent people. He wasn’t doing this for fun, he is Spidey for the greater good. MJ knows that. MJ knew that she could ask Peter for help if she needed it and he’d come running. She made it clear she could handle it and like a good husband he respected her decision. It wasn’t like she was trying to reach him for help and he was distracted or actively ignored her. But you know, those disingenuous pieces of misinformation aren’t going to write themselves. Also the stories are a little ambiguous about this but there is a possible implication that MJ was keeping Peter somewhat in the dark about Caesar’s activities. “The only person who was interested in Mary Jane's safety was Officer Hal Goldman, who ended up shooting Caesar dead. Was Hal a super-cop detective that ate serial stalkers for lunch? Note really, see the thing about Hal.... Hal Goldman Let's follow up this sexist scene with the woman regretting her career choices. Very progressive.”

This bozo shouldn’t be lecturing people on what is and isn’t sexist

FFS OF COURSE someone in MJ’s position would be questioning her career choices. She’s just been stalked by 2 lunatics. But noticeably she doesn’t stop being an actress/model after this. The moment was a dash of comedy given the situation and nothing more. But you wouldn’t know that given how this guy is not bothering to use context or anything

How the Hell is MJ macing a stalker and then knocking him out sexist? “Hal Goldman wasn't actually a police officer. He was just a fat NYPD civilian desk clerk with a terrible bowl cut who had an unhealthy obsession with Mary Jane when she starred in a soap opera called "Secret Hospital". Although he was "investigating" Jonathan Ceasar's attempts to ruin Mary Jane's life again, he was also obsessed with protecting her from everyone who slighted her. He ran over an old woman who slapped MJ in the face, dropped a stage light on her director's head and tried to clobber Peter with a piece of concrete. However, this is an accurate depiction of how fan-boys react to things.” Remember how over 50% of fanboys threatened or actually inflicted violence upon people because of OMD? Neither do I. “When he guns down Caesar he professes his undying love to Mary Jane and admits to committing all the above crimes. Again, Peter is nowhere around,” Of course he’s nowhere around. Peter doesn’t constantly monitor MJ all day every day. You know…like a stalker. Fuck real life husbands don’t do this. Moreover if we bother to check the issue in question (ASM #339) some interesting details are presented to us. For starters MJ was only endangered due to trickery and bad luck. Caesar forced a co-star of MJ’s to handwrite a note and sign it asking for her to meet him at the set of Secret Hospital. Between the set being a relatively safe environment and the note checking out as legitimate due to the handwriting and signature, MJ had no reason to be suspicious. Peter absolutely intended to go with MJ but earlier that day had been doused with a chemical by the Sinister Six, the effects of which he was uncertain about. He got a call regarding the Six’s activities and the chemical so logically that would take priority over Mj merely meeting a co-star. MJ chose not to delay the meeting until Peter was available and go herself. Again neither she nor Peter had any reason to suspect foul play. So Peter’s absence was never due to neglect. It wasn’t even due to putting the duties of Spider-man before the needs of his wife. As far as either of them knew there was no danger. So again, distorting the facts. Classy. “so when she rejects him Officer Bowl Cut decides to do the old "if I can't have you, nobody will!" Routine. However, she sprayed him in the eyes with hairspray and clobbered him with a purse. You know just as you'd expect a strong female character to do.” Yes. That is exactly what I expect a female, or indeed any character, to do in that situation. Mary Jane had no real weapons. The story even specified that MJ tried to get a handgun but was still waiting on it. So she improvised and used whatever resources she had to hand. This is routine for Mary Jane both during and before the marriage. Using hairspray and a handbag, which are not obvious weapons but can nevertheless be repurposed for offence, was a perfectly legitimate technique for both the character and writer to employ. It’s almost like it makes her look smart, tough and resourceful for being able to think on her feet like that or something. Oh, and again. MJ is bad because she conforms to a cliché but is also bad because didn’t conform to the cliché of Spidey rescuing her which would’ve also been bad because the marriage is used to easily generate damsel-in-distress situations. This isn’t even a double standard it’s a TRIPLE standard. This jackoff has constructed his argument in such a way that Mary Jane/the marriage can NEVER win. “Jason Jerome This happened in 1990, consent hadn't been invented yet.”

Jason wasn’t a stalker strictly speaking

This storyline, bad as it was, was nevertheless handled very differently from the Jonathan Caesar arc because MJ at least was tempted to reciprocate feelings for Jason whilst she was repulsed by Caesar

YES. the concept of consent WASN’T very well taught back in the 1990s! What the hell is he point here? “Jason Jerome was an actor who thought he could seduce Mary Jane into having an affair with him. This came at a time when there were three monthly Spider-Man titles. This made for one busy wall-crawler. On top of fighting villains, he was also promoting a book and traveling the globe as a reporter. Needless to say, MJ was feeling more than a little neglected. This made Mary Jane susceptible to Jerome's advances. However, despite his best efforts, Mary Jane ended things before they had gone too far. To do so, she invited Jason to her apartment under the pretence of sex. Instead of getting balls deep, Jason Jerome found himself in a room plastered with photos of Peter and Mary Jane together, like inviting an obsessed man into your home without telling anyone is a smart idea.” Jason was not obsessed. He viewed MJ as a ‘conquest’ and from her POV was not dangerous like Caesar or Hal. Also IIRC this occurred after the incident with Hal, which meant MJ would likely have owned a handgun by this point. Even if she didn’t, she defeated Hal and Caesar and his guards when she was unprepared and improvising on the fly. Here she has had hours to prep and it’s literally in her home. If she suspected Jason to be dangerous (which he was not and had given her no reason to believe so) she was in a great position to handle him. “All the lamps and hairspray in the world cannot possibly stop this potentially becoming a bad situation.” A rich and powerful lunatic with a knife and armed guards outside got their ass beaten by MJ whilst she was improvising…on their home turf. A less rich, less powerful, unarmed man with no displays of mental instability or violence comes to MJ’s home turf on his own. So yes, if she was so inclined MJ could 100% rig up a trap with hairspray and a lamp or a fucking gun if she had one. “If this backfires, let's just hope he's into this sort of thing.” A necrophilia joke? How tasteful. “The Stalker "I said, I'm bored with sort of scenario. Can you try and change this up a bit?"”

Jason Jerome wasn’t stalking MJ

Yes the stalker was lame. Also this occurred around 9-10 years later

You know there is more to this relationship than the occasions when MJ was stalked FFS “The most unoriginal character created by Howard Mackie during his run.” His run when he was possibly dealing with serious health issues. Classy. “The Stalker follows a long tradition of Marvel characters whose names are obvious: The Prowler prowls,” Except he doesn’t do much prowling. He flits between retirement and active costumed work. And he’s not exactly a stalker of the night like Batman when he’s out of retirement. “the Watcher watches, and the Shocker finger blasts people.” Does this guy know what ‘shocking’ means? Blasting people isn’t shocking them. Electrocuting people = shocking people. Vibrating them doesn’t = shocking them. “So obviously, the Stalker was a stalker. Specifically, he stalked Mary Jane. The guy went to some insane lengths. He set off bombs and killed people. The whole time this was happening Peter was busy going out as Spider-Man.” YES. THAT’S HIS FUCKING JOB! Also, for the majority of the time Mj was being stalked she had kept Peter in the dark about the guy. Shortly after he finally did learn the truth he seemingly died. For sure he was kept away from her whilst she was being made a target, but

The 1970s Clone Saga

Spec Annual 1988

Smoke and Mirrors

Web #125

Maximum Clonage

Clone Conspiracy

“Each time he seems to forget the fact that a lunatic had cloned his dead girlfriend every time.”

Horseshit.

He KNEW the truth in every encounter following the first one. He didn’t fall for it on the third-sixth occasions but shockingly seeing your dead loved one (who died right in front of you) walking around alive is going to emotionally hurt you and dreadge up old wounds and old feelings.

Gerry Conway in Spec Annual 1988 directly addresses this by having Peter acknowledge that intellectually he knows Gwen to merely be a clone but emotionally he still feels towards her the same way as though she were the real Gwen.

It’s almost like Conway was a good writer not a HACK like the OP and so knows that in matters of the heart a realistic human being might let their sense of logic fly out the window.

If ONLY there had been a global sensation of a movie released months prior to ASM v5 #1 which demonstrated this aptly.

“Every time it made Peter confused and dug up old feelings. Which, naturally, made Mary Jane doubt the strength of their relationship.”

That literally happened twice. And she briefly doubted before thinking otherwise or been shown otherwise.

“With this many clones of the dead girlfriend, you'd figure he would have gotten used to it.”

Yes if he was an emotionless automaton. Or written by someone who knows jack about human emotions...like the OP…

“Instead of going to a shrink to process these feelings,”

Thus risking the anonymity that protects himself and his loved ones.

“Peter usually fell for the various manipulations that typically came from these convoluted cloning schemes and hit whoever was responsible.”

OBVIOUSLY he hit whoever was responsible. They were super villains, he was going to bring them to justice no matter what

Again, he fell for it the first time. But ONLY the first time. He was aware Gwen was a clone in every other encounter and never played along. Many of those instances weren’t even villains pulling a scheme but a situation Peter happened to mix himself up in. Spec Annual #8 had nothing to do with him as the High Evolutionary wanted to apprehend Gwen for his own purposes. Web #125 involved him discovering Gwen’s clone in the suburbs but no villain had planned on him doing that

“That Time Illegitimate Kids Showed Up

Gwen Stacy was always portrayed as a saintly woman cut down in the prime of her life.”

Except for all those times she absolutely wasn’t prior to her death; that’s not even counting AUs.

Saint Gwendolyn I, Holy Virgin Martyr Princess was a revisionist invention fabricated after her death to make her death more tragic in hindsight. It’s a pack of lies that doesn’t deserve to be paid attention to.

“That was until JMS wrote a Gwen Stacy story that was entirely fucked up.”

No. It was only partially fucked up because

Gwen was obviously not pregnant

MJ and Gwen didn’t care about Gwen’s kids

“In it, Peter learns that Gwen had an affair with Norman Osborn (the Green Goblin, AKA the guy who later murdered her) and got knocked up.”

They didn’t have an affair.

People seem to be misinformed on the definition of what the word ‘affair’ means. They use it as though it means ‘being unfaithful to your partner’. That is not the meaning of the term. An EXTRAMARITAL affair can mean that but a regular romantic/sexual affair doesn’t inherently mean there is any unfaithfulness occurring.

But it DOES have to be ongoing to some extent.

Gwen and Norman weren’t in any kind of on-going relationship. They had sex exactly once.

And during that time no unfaithfulness was occurring as Gwen was not with Peter at the time.

“Everyone apparently knew and kept it a secret.”

…er….no…I don’t know how you could even misread Sins Past to come to that conclusion.

The story is extremely explicit that Gwen and Norman kept their encounter and Gwen’s pregnancy a secret. MJ knew about it and told Peter years later. But there is nothing in the story even hinting that anyone else knew besides the three of them.

“During a point where Gwen and Peter were on the outs, she found out she was pregnant, left the country, and gave birth to the kids. These kids were then secreted away by Norman for years.

When Peter found about these kids (but not their origins) he assumed they were his kids, even though he later remembers that he and Gwen never had sex!!”

He never presumes they are his children. Again, great analytical skills there.

“What's worse, is after all was said and done, Peter later went to France to help out Gwen's daughter, who was her spitting image and the same biological age that Gwen was when Peter dated her (they aged fast, look it up) This was all an attempt to seduce Peter and he had to constantly remind himself that his feelings for her were wrong.”

It was absolutely not an attempt to seduce Peter. Sarah’s agenda only later evolved to entail that too but that wasn’t her original motive

In one of the all time best episodes of the Simpsons Homer was tempted by his co-worker Mindy. This occurred in spite of countless episodes demonstrating how much he loved Marge. Ultimately nothing more than a kiss was shared between them and he didn’t succumb to his temptations. In this scenario Peter is being confronted by someone who looks and to an extent acts identically to someone he loved and cruelly lost, someone who for a time he believed he might have a future with. This occurs not very long after he learns that his relationship with that person was at least partially a big lie as she was pregnant for most of their relationship and slept with his ultimate enemy. So he’s going to be incredibly emotionally vulnerable at this point. Sarah kissed him and he didn’t reciprocate at all. Peter if anything can be more forgiven his temptations than Homer was. And Homer was still forgivable as your actions are what ultimately matter. Peter not only acknowledged his feelings were wrong and coming from an emotionally confusing place but he never acted upon them either and reaffirmed his love for MJ when all was said and done. Much like Homer did to Marge after rejecting Mindy.

“Mary Jane had such a bad feeling about it, she travelled to France to check in on her hubby, and walked in on him while Gwen Jr. Was kissing Peter.”

Yeah. Because OOC writing exists dipshit. You don’t just take ANY given story as gospel FFS. What kind of pre-schooler level literary analysis is this?

“The fact that Peter was attracted to a 7 year old girl who only looked like she was in her early 20s because of a genetic disorder is super creepy.”

It is because see above about OOC writing. But by this logic the clones of Gwen were even younger. Sarah was mentally 7 but she looked just like an adult Gwen Stacy so obviously Peter’s emotions and attractions being confused is forgivable under the circumstances.

“So you can totally understand when Mary Jane was upset about that one.”

I’m genuinely shocked this clown was able to be so sympathetic towards MJ here.

“Somewhere, a divorce lawyer just got a huge erection.”

I’m sure he would have if only the story hadn’t ended by reaffirming Peter and MJ’s love for one another.

“It Wasn't Just the Dead Girlfriend, but her Extended Family

Before we get into more of the Stacy family, let's talk about the Watson family for a minute. Mary Jane came from a broken home. An alcoholic and abusive father led to her mother taking the kids and leaving. Although he mom died her sister had two kids and was abandoned by the father. Also, she has a cousin who has an eating disorder. In a lot of these cases, Peter Parker left his wife to deal with the family drama on her own.”

No.

Peter actively helped MJ when she asked him to in ASM #291-292.

He actively helped MJ’s friend who had a drug problem when MJ asked him to.

In the recent one shot Going Big Peter seeks out Kristy when she disappears…because MJ asked him to.

Peter respected MJ and her family and would’ve helped in any way he was able if MJ aske him to.

But between supporting their family, Aunt May and protecting the city because he’s a fucking super hero his time and abilities to help were limited. Oh and MJ didn’t ask him to.

She felt, not unjustifiably, that she could handle it. Often MJ wishes to leave Peter as unburdened as possible if she can handle a situation because his life is dangerous and stressful enough as is. But she knows he’s there to help if she needs it. And he would be there if she needed him.

It’ almost like they were MARRIED or something and divided up their duties appropriately or something.

This clown seems to treat ‘being Spider-Man’ as code for ‘have fun goofing off lulz’. It’s not. It’s a massive duty and higher purpose Peter takes incredibly seriously.

“Which is quite the slap in the face when he spent more time helping the Stacy family. Namely Gwen's cousins Paul and Jill and their dad.”

Because they were his friends, MJ’s friends and at times MJ asked him to help them. Peter didn’t even like spending time with them initially because they opened up old wounds for him. He had to put the work in to hang around them.

“When they appeared in Spider-Man stories in the late 90s, Mary Jane took a back seat to whatever problems the Stacy's were having.”

No she didn’t.

SOMETIMES the problems regarding the Stacy’s happened to be the A plot. Other times they happened to be the B plot. This happened more often than not in peter Parker: Spider-Man by Mackie. But there were FOUR Spider-titles at the time so that’s more than acceptable.

But Peter never helped the Stacy’s at the expense of Mary Jane, not unless there was a clear physical danger posed to their lives.

In Mackie/Byrne’s run MJ and Jill were endangered by the same incident and Peter prioritized saving MJ over Jill.

“You're still dealing with your miscarriage Mary Jane? Sorry, I got to talk Paul Stacy out of a hate group right now.”

Get fucked.

I’ve read PPSM #82-83 as well. In fact they were among my earliest ever comic books I re-read them several years ago.

This is yet another MASSIVE distortion of events.

Peter didn’t talk Paul out of a hate group (specifically the anti-mutant hate group the Friends of Humanity) at the expense of helping MJ deal with their miscarriage.

Peter and MJ were due to meet for a counselling session to talk about the miscarriage. However, Paul was being targeted by a mutant who literally told Peter she was going to murder him. Peter went to prevent that from happening but a bad bout of vertigo (brought on presumably by an encounter with Morbius the Living Vampire) caused Peter to cling to a wall, his life hanging in the balance.

That’s why he missed the therapy session that one time.

He wasn’t goofing off. He wasn’t lecturing Paul about why racism is bad m’kay. He was trying to save his life and then save his own life.

So a quintessential example of distorting the facts and removing things from context.

“Peter Shut Her Out of Every Existential Crisis”

No he didn’t. There were multiple times he questioned if he was doing the right thing, if he was making a difference, etc and talked to her about it

Even if he did shut her out that would be conflict which is what you fucking want in your dramatic story

WOW! Moments of intense mental/emotional strife involve people not acting in a healthy manner, including in regards to their romantic relationships?????? Who’d have THOUGHT!

“Not only were Mary Jane's problems put on a back burner, whenever Peter had a problem, he shut MJ out.”

MJ herself understood some of her problems had to be put on a back burner for the greater good that Spider-Man performed for the world at large.

And the times he shut her out amounted to…I don’t even know…maybe once just prior to the Clone Saga when he was grappling with intense grief and pain and was on the verge of a mental breakdown. Then just went ahead and had the mental breakdown.

“During their marriage, Peter had huge life-changing moments. The first was when his parents came back from the dead only to be revealed as impostors then his Aunt May suffered a life-threatening stroke.”

Yes. These were definitely the first life-changing moments that occurred after he married Mary Jane.

Being buried alive, encountering Venom, going back to school, his best friend turning to villainy and becoming a reserve Avenger certainly wouldn’t have been life changing at all.

“Spider-Man's answer? Give up on being Peter Parker and embracing the spider.”

I’ll take ‘What if grief and emotional trauma’ for 500 Alex!!!!!!!

Honest to Christ. The story makes everything clear as crystal. This is an entirely believable response to trauma, it’s just literalized because the person experiencing it lives a double life already and has super powers.

“The writers were probably going for dark and moody, but looking back at it, it was a lot of whining.”

He lived his whole life in the wake of losing his parents, then had those wounds reopened when he learned they were not dead, then gradually grew to love and trust them, was stabbed in the back by them, found out they were imposters and his parents had been dead after all, then saw them violently die right in front of him, then learned this was perpetuated by his best friend, then the woman who raised him had a stroke and fell into a coma.

That’s not WHINING, that’s an insane amount of grief and pain you fucking idiot.

No human being could cope with that amount of trauma and NOT express their pain in some form. This isn’t him complaining he missed a date or can’t get his studies done. This is his heart being ripped out and stomped on in front of him repeatedly!

“Also, he totally abandoned his wife. Which is a dick move. Hey Pete, she might be someone to support you through your recent loss.”

HE WAS HAVING A MENTAL BREAKDOWN YOU DUMBASS!

NO ONE thinks clearly or logically when they are in that kind of emotional/mental distress. He was grieving the loss of THREE parents for fuck’s sake!

“Somewhere, a grief councilor just got a huge erection.”

This shithead clearly doesn’t know the meaning of the word grief.

“Then came the Clone Saga where Peter was convinced he was actually a clone of the real Spider-Man. He was too wrapped up on the fact that his past was potentially a lie that he couldn't see the good things in his life. He was married. Had a child on the way. None of this registered with him because of all the clones around putting his past into question.”

Peter Parker’s belief system was that a clone is NOT a real human being, it is a creature that is less than human and that in being a clone you have no real identity or right to life, you are just a freak. MJ echoes these sentiments in ASM #400.

Ben Reilly, who had all of Peter’s memories became distraught upon learning he was a clone. That occurred circa 1975 when Peter was approximately 22 years old and hadn’t finished college yet. Ben literally grieved for himself and that the memories in his head were a pretense, a life that was not his. He contemplated killing Peter and taking his life. He became borderline suicidal and anti-social. This went on for years during which he pushed himself to the very edge self-destructively.

Putting aside how the original intent was for Ben to be the REAL Peter Parker, Ben’s behaviours display what a dark and dangerous place Peter could’ve gone to had he been in Ben’s position.

The intent of the Jackal and Norman Osborn in orchestrating the Clone Saga was to shatter Peter’s sense of identity. The Jackal wanted to do that in 1975 with a 22 year old Peter. Norman however knew the blow would hurt Peter much more when he had more to lose and so delayed it until 1995 when Peter would’ve been about 27 years old, had more of a career, longer and deeper connections to his loved ones, a wife and a baby on the way.

When he finally pulled the trigger Peter had also only recently recovered from a terrible mental breakdown, lost Aunt May, been falsely accused of murder, had his sense of identity further damaged by yet more clones of himself appearing and learned that he and MJ’s baby might have serious health problems if he was a clone.

In fact MJ’s first reaction upon learning Peter was a clone was to grip her tummy and express concern for her baby. And remember she directly told him a clone isn’t a real person.

When put in context this caused Peter to have a SECOND mental breakdown. Entirely UNDERSTANDABLY!

This wasn’t a case of appreciating all he had because from his point of view being a clone meant he’d LOST all that. That he COULDN’T have that because he was less than human and not the real person that life belonged to.

If BEN reacted that way when he believed he was a clone then logically OF COURSE Peter was going to take it much, much, much worse.

“It should also be pointed out that during this period, Mary Jane's life was at risk and she was being stalked, again. This time by a clone. However, Peter was once again nowhere to be seen.”

Oh my fucking…HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED!

He wasn’t around because he was literally incarcerated in prison. Breaking out risked exposing his identity and thus endangering MJ and the baby. He also didn’t KNOW she was being stalked. When he found out in ASM #401 he broke out of jail and sought to find her. Later when Ben offered to take his place in jail Peter went on the hunt for MJ’s stalker, his clone Kaine whom he ALSO suspected as the guy who framed him.

Gee, proactively seeking out the guy threatening your wife and who might’ve framed you?

What a shitty husband, it’s not like that’s an entirely practical consideration to take or anything.

“In Heindsight...”

Oh this outta be good

“I could go over every other moment where Peter treated his wife like crap,”

Except he rarely did and the examples you’ve brought up do not hold up to scrutiny in the slightest because you are a clown show of an analyst.

“but those are the huge ones.”

No they aren’t, see above.

“Looking back at the upset of 2007, it's clear that anyone who got mad didn't actually read any of the stories written while Peter and Mary Jane were married.”

That’s so very rich coming from this dipshit, see above.

“Even then, over the past decade there has been a plethora of great Spider-Man stories.”

That’s true.

Agent Venom by Rick Remender

Carnage Family Feud

Carnage USA

Half of Scarlet Spider by Chris Yost

Bits of Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider by Peter David

AXIS Hobgoblin

AXIS Carnage

Carnage by Gerry Conway

Silk by Robbie Thompson

Superior Foes of Spider-Man

ASM: Renew Your Vows

The issue where Flash Thompson lost his legs

The story regarding the Rhino and his girlfriend

Spider-Man 2099 by Peter David

Notice how none of that stuff focuses upon 616 Peter Parker.

Because between 2008-2018 there were no good stories focussing upon 616 Peter Parker.

At best there were mediocre stories focussing upon the pathetic man-child that was Spider-Man in name only.

“In fact, I'd even argue that Dan Slott's run on Spider-Man has contained some of the best Spider-Man stories of the past two decades.”

And you’d just further confirm yourself to be a moron who doesn’t have the first warm shit of a clue about how to analyse stories if you did.

“I can't think or a stellar Spider-Man run past 198 until Slott's run.”

ASM by JMS+Romita Junior

Sensational by Sacasa

Spec by DeMatteis+Buscema

Spec by DeMatteis+Ross

Marvel Knights by Mark Millar

Bits of Peter Parker: Spider-Man by Paul Jenkins

Hypothetically though let’s say they weren’t stellar.

They would still be OBJECTIVELY better than Dan Slott. Like who’s mothers did Michelinie, DeFalco or any of the above guys murder for you to claim Slott was better than them.

None of those guys:

Had Peter become a paparazzi photographer

Had Aunt May claim she was disappointed in Peter for not supporting her the night Uncle Ben died

Had Doc Ock try to rape Mary Jane

Created a clear cut Mary Sue to upstage Spidey in his own book

Turned Spider-Man into Diet Iron Man

Killed off a Ditko-era character for no other reason beyond a shock death. Except Mark Millar but the character was extremely minor

“Next to JMS' run, Slott has been the best Spider-Man writer in decades.”

Again, notice how he CONVENIENTLY neglected to bring up stuff from the JMS run when MJ and the marriage was written the best.

His criteria for judging MJ literally JUST included:

ASM by Michelinie run from 1989-1994

ASM by DeMatteis in 1994

Conway’s Spec/Web runs from 1988-1989

Spec #226 by DeFalco in 1995

Mackie’s PPSM run from 1997

The Mackie/Byrne run from 1999-2001

That was it.

He stated the marriage lasted between 1987-2007 but his analysis halted at 2001. He’s leaving out 6 goddam years worth of material in addition to ALL the other material he conveniently ignored before then.

“Where to Go From Here?

That raises some interesting questions. Will Peter and Mary Jane tie the knot again? It seems like Marvel is marrying characters off again (Colossus and Kitty Pryde as well as Gambit and Rogue) so that's promising.

Another is the promising thing is that the alternate reality series Renew Your Vows has been doing very well.

The last point is the main reason why they nixed the marriage to begin with: Needing a Spider-Man younger readers can relate with.”

The main reason they nixed it was because Quesada was butthurt Gwen died in 1973 and that MJ got to marry him instead.

“For the past number of years they have been promoting the hell out of Miles Morales, the "Ultimate" Spider-Man. They have been grooming him to be the young Spidey that they want for younger fans.”

Maybe don’t use the term ‘grooming’ in the context of a teenage character there buddy.

“While that doesn't mean Peter and MJ are destined to get married again, hopefully they will allow Peter to at least grow up a little.”

I see.

Marriage = bad because it makes him unrelatable to the kids. But also this dipshit wants Peter to ‘grow up a little’…which is what he had done by marrying MJ in the first place.

“However, let me say this: Doing what's expected doesn't necessarily make for a good story, it's the unexpected.”

Why don’t you ask Star Wars and Game of Thrones fans what they think about that buddy?

“That's what made Slott's run on Spider-Man so great.”

That’s true. Nobody expected Slott would have Doc Ock masturbate in Peter’s body. Nobody expected him to drag out our suffering for as long as he did. Nobody expected he’d invoke such a juvenile idea as Norman Osborn becoming carnage.

“Let's hope Nick Spencer continues that tradition.’

Fuck the unexpected. Just give me competency.

#Spider-Man #mjwatsonedit #Mary Jane Watson #mj watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #Peter Parker #ben Reilly #Brand New Day #Dan Slott #Clone Saga #submission

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traincat · 5 years

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You know with the F4 being in the MCU soon I'm afraid they won't make Johnny bisexual because of reasons :/

Yeah, I’ve seen this concern going around a lot, and I definitely share it, although I’m trying not to be too negative about things before we know anything about an MCU Fantastic Four movie, since it sounds like it won’t actually be happening in Phase Four after all and a lot can happen in a few years.

On the other hand, if we want to get a little conspiracy theorist here, I can strap on my tin hat and break out this theory: Johnny was supposed to come out already in this Fantastic Four run, but it was nixed last minute. The evidence backing up this theory is not insubstantial: the run starts off bringing Wyatt Wingfoot, Johnny’s extremely close best friend since Fantastic Four #50, back into the picture, paralleling scenes of him and Johnny at a baseball game (where they even joke about getting caught on the kiss cam) with scenes of Ben and Alicia on a date. Johnny and Wyatt were very physical during these scenes:

Johnny even seemed to get jealous when they ran into Jennifer Walters, Wyatt’s on-again off-again girlfriend (currently off again):

Now I’ve long commented that if Johnny was going to come out officially (not counting his heavily implied and later Marjorie Liu confirmed sexual relationship with Daken Akihiro), Wyatt makes for perfect relationship material. Pairing a character with a history as long as Johnny’s with a brand new blank slate love interest created solely for to be The Boyfriend is a boring move that results in an uneven relationship lacking in chemistry (look at Bobby Drake and Judah in Iceman v3); meanwhile Wyatt and Johnny have a long history that could easily be construed as romantic with very little work. Wyatt’s been incredibly dedicated to Johnny since day one and they have an incredibly close friendship – Wyatt’s stated he knows Johnny like his own flesh and blood. There’s a good basis for a romance here.

In issue 5, after Ben’s bachelor party, Ben and Johnny have a discussion where they discuss Johnny’s failed love life.

(Perpetual bachelor, confirmed bachelor… tomato, toh-mah-toe.)

“When you know – and you’ll know – take that leap. Don’t wait fer stronger shielding. Be brave, Johnny Storm.”

It’s interesting to note that no pronouns or gendered language is used – it would have been incredibly easy for Ben to say that Johnny will meet the right girl one day. That’s not what’s said. And for Ben to end the conversation encouraging Johnny to “be brave” would be a very powerful lead up to Johnny coming out.

In the same issue, I might note, hidden in a larger panel within the issue is this little but very intimate looking Johnny and Wyatt moment:

“I coulda had all a’ this years ago” Ben says, referring to him and Alicia, but if we continue the Ben-Alicia and Johnny-Wyatt parallels the first issue set up, the same is very much true for Johnny: he and Wyatt could have been together years ago. “Be brave, Johnny Storm.”

Final and most damning piece of evidence in this theory that Johnny was supposed come out already. This is the solicit originally published for Fantastic Four (2018) #7:

The solicit promises a “strange new development in the life of the Human Torch.” Now that’s a very vague phrase, it’s true, but we’re following very closely on the heels of Ben’s “be brave” speech. A “strange new” development would have to entail something that hasn’t already happened to Johnny; a new heterosexual romance wouldn’t count, because that wouldn’t be strange or new unless there were significant mitigating circumstances.

Except when Fantastic Four #7 came out, nothing actually happened with Johnny. I’m not kidding; nothing of note happens to Johnny at all in this issue. He has a brief run-in with Doom’s new Girl Friday, Victorious, who seems to hate him on sight in what I suppose could be construed as one of those deeply unfun heterosexual romances where the girl just hates the guy and we’re all supposed to believe that passes for actual chemistry, but again, that wouldn’t be NEW for Johnny, and their interactions in the issue are incredibly brief. Whatever the original plan was, it was clearly either seriously downsized or nixed altogether. Meanwhile, in the book’s B plot, Wyatt hangs out with Alicia and babysits the kids, who are now calling him Uncle Wyatt – something we haven’t seen before.

So that’s the evidence. Make of it what you will. I don’t know if I believe it myself entirely, but there are some weird coincidences for sure.

#johnny storm #wyatt wingfoot #marvel comics #traincat talks comics #johnnywyatt #long post/

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lucytara · 6 years

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1/2 Hey I don't know if you have seen Eruptionfang's video about Bumblebee but I have question to you now that I saw it. I know people don't like him but I thought that video was not hateful and he explained himself well. But looking at the video and comments people are saying B&Y never got the same narrative development as B&S. And in someway I agree. Like B&S spend a lot of time outside of school together and obviously the two volumes as a whole. And I think we can admit Blake had a crush on

2/2Sun for a while. But I think they ignore the manga where we see B&Y relationship in school. In the animation we don’t see them as much interact like that but the manga makes it clear in my opinion that they have a close relationship and spend time together but it seems like a lot of people think contrary, as they have only seen the animation. But I don’t know seeing those comments made me doubt how much I watched it the way I wanted it. Do you think the narrative was there?

fair warning that this ended up turning into uhhhh…..a long post so welcome to rwby: a bumbleby vs black/sun narrative analysis

so i haven’t watched it, and in regards to it being not hateful, i think you first have to look at the intent behind it. first of all, it’s not his place to discuss this topic whatsoever. this story isn’t being written for him. it’s not being written for men. it doesn’t matter what y’all think about it, quite frankly, because it’s not for or about you: it’s about us, people who have never in history seen the kind of representation rwby is giving us with blake and yang. that’s something anyone who wants to “have an honest opinion about bumbleby” should think about. he didn’t. he ignored that, ignored the tons of wlw who love this portrayal and relationship. that tells me really everything i need to know about him as a person. the intent of his video is to bring people around to “his side” of things, his perspective, here’s why bumbleby was done wrong, b/s was done right, etc whatever. the intent behind him creating and posting this video is hateful. let’s be very clear about that.

the problem with people trying to claim that bumbleby came out of nowhere or that black/sun had a ton of now-pointless development is that their claims are almost always viewed through a heteronormative lens. they look at blake and sun on-screen together and they think it’s development. they think blake being visibly annoyed with sun for the entirety of volume 4 is romantic. they think his total lack of understanding her character but pushing her boundaries anyway is romantic. they think blake owes him her own feelings in return for his, just because he feels them. they think that because it’s a narrative that’s been popularized by media for literally…well…ever.

from a wlw perspective, for those of us who ship bumbleby, did not read sun and blake’s relationship as “development” in a romantic direction. i’ve always said that sun was a red herring. he appears - another faunus - at a time blake is desperately looking for someone to understand her. except he can’t! sun had a great life, so it seems! he thinks the white fang are nuts! he has nothing to do with any of the hardships blake has faced throughout her entire life. sun never understands her and he doesn’t, at any point, relate or empathize with her. he moves on very easily with his life after the incident with the white fang and torchwick. he tries to ask blake to the dance. she says the one line that lets us, the audience, know what she’d hoped from sun and wasn’t receiving: “i thought you of all people would understand that.” he doesn’t understand. but an episode or so later, someone does understand blake, and that person is yang.

this is really the Big “oh” moment for me. blake was looking for someone to understand her in sun, but she was looking in the wrong place. yang comes in unravels blake in the span of a single conversation. she understands blake perfectly, understands where she coming from and why, and most importantly, understands how to get her to stop. how to put things in perspective. burning the candle was honestly all the narrative we needed in regards to sun/yang/blake as a starting point. sun isn’t who blake wants him to be and this is where she’s started to realize that. this is where we, the audience, are also supposed to realize that.

sun and blake have then, what, one moment in v3? where he flirst with her in a stadium full of people and she blushes? sure, whatever. i’m not denying that on some level i think blake wanted to be interested in sun. i don’t really buy that she fully was, but i think she wanted to be. however, the last half of the volume, blake’s entire focus is on yang: yang, who she watches attack mercury, and rather than believing her immediately, finds herself shaken and reminded of adam. in this conversation, we’re told a couple of things: one, that yang and adam are parallels. blake is comparing them herself. the implication is that yang is also someone very dear to blake, and blake’s afraid of the same thing happening. but she ultimately believes yang when yang looks her in the eye.

then - a quick telling moment - blake’s eyes narrowing when hearing cinder describe yang attacking an innocent student. she immediately realizes yang was set up, and she was wrong to not believe her. this is important because imo this weighs on blake from the finale onward.

if we use some critical thinking skills, we can infer that blake and yang have spent quite a lot of time together up until the v3 finale. they’re literally partners, teammates. they share the same dorms. they’re together almost all the time, for - what - like 9 months or so? we can imagine they know each other pretty well. blake picked her to begin with. they’re close; we don’t have to know every single detail, especially considering the format rwby is presented in.

v3 finale - yang finds weiss, who tells her ruby’s still missing and so is blake. sun? also right there. doesn’t go look for her. yang makes the decision to prioritize blake and goes after her. we all know what happens now - adam takes one look at blake’s face and to yang and knows she’s someone blake loves. yang loses an arm and almost dies trying to protect her, blake almost dies trying to protect her immediately after. blake holds her hand and tells her she’s sorry while sun looks on at their joined hands.

like, there’s the narrative set-up. all of it. it’s right there. yang/adam are paralleled and yang immediately loses to him. he gives them both scars that link them together forever. they’re never going to be able to take that night back. they’re bound by it. they have the literal. scars. to prove it. and sun plays no role in it. people who ignore this in favor of the very surface-level development bs get are doing extreme disservices to the characters and the show itself.

i came in at the end of v3. i was elated all throughout volume 4 because blake literally was not interested in him, she wasn’t interested in his advances, and her heart was clearly elsewhere. she spent all of volume 4 upset that sun had followed her. she even has one last-ditch moment on the ship - where sun says “i knew exactly what you were doing” and she perks up for a moment before he hits the final nail in the coffin and completely misinterprets why she ran. like, that’s the end for bs romantically, right there. when sun still proves after all this time and everything that’s happened, he fundamentally doesn’t understand blake.

they had zero romantic interactions all throughout volumes 4 and 5. what they did have? friendship development. blake and sun essentially started over their entire relationship with blake finally in the right mindset to process it. she didn’t like sun, she never really liked sun, they’re incompatible and now she really sees that. so they work their way to a friendship, which is exactly what myself and most people in the bb fandom saw. blake wasn’t interested. it doesn’t matter how much sun was. both people need to be equally invested or a relationship is nothing. blake wasn’t interested. there is no way to retcon that or get around it. she doesn’t like sun romantically. she makes it explicitly clear, and i don’t respect anyone who chooses to ignore that. heteronormativity in media has taught us forever that what a girl wants/how she feels doesn’t matter as much as what the boy does, that perseverance is key, but that’s a fucked up narrative and i’m happy to see it subverted here.

anyway. during this period of time that blake and yang are apart, they’re constantly on each others’ minds. blake voices it once or twice; yang snaps one time and breaks down about it. we can infer that what hurt yang the most wasn’t losing her arm, it was that blake ran. yang wanted to be there for her. yang carries a photo of her around, so worn in the middle that it bend automatically, used to being grasped on blake’s side of the frame. these are details meant to imply certain things. yang misses blake and thinks about her more than she ever dares to say it aloud.

all of this builds both to them reuniting and volume 6. weirdly enough (not), a majority of the fandom predicted blake and yang’s dynamic this volume. we predicted exactly how blake would act, how yang would reciprocate. we predicted this accurately because we understand exactly the story crwby is telling and how it plays out. we knew blake and yang spent however long apart thinking about each other. we knew blake felt enormously guilty and sorry and regretted ever running in the first place, and we knew she’d promise yang she’d never do it again. (this was slightly more split, but) plenty of people predicted yang would forgive her instantly, because all yang wanted was to be by her side. we knew this because this story is being told to us and for us.

sun says it himself: it was never about romance where he and blake are concerned. she’s with who she’s supposed to be with now, and it’s not him. the show told us all of this.

someone’s inability to view a narrative through a different perspective than their own skewed one does not make it a bad narrative. rwby has done exactly what it’s intended to do with blake & yang, and if all of us - as our fandom is mostly comprised of wlw - could pick up on that perfectly, then the narrative is not the problem. the problem is the homophobic/heteronormative lens with which you are viewing the show through.

#bumbleby

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araxiis · 5 years

Text

Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair; Why Case 2 Works

While browsing YouTube, I came across a video ranking the 5 best and 5 worst trials throughout the Danganronpa series. The fourth worst on this particular list was game 2, trial 2. Diving a bit deeper, I found that a lot of people were not fans of this trial, saying it didn't make sense, or it was forced. I'm just here to articulate why I think this motive and trial work well, and don't deserve the reputation they have.

People's biggest issue here tends to be the motive. A popular arguement about this case is that having a video game for a motive doesn't make sense. These are the same people who will then turn around and say that game 3 trial 4 is one of their favourites. Granted, the virtual world in Killing Harmony is very different from Twilight Syndrome, but at the core, they're similar concepts. When playing Twilight Syndrome, it's important to keep in mind that the game is there to be a motive, so linking the unnamed sprites and the characters in Goodbye Despair is not unreasonable. The game makes it extremely obvious as well, drawing clear parallels between these game avatars and the characters we know.

Fuyuhiko finishes the game before anyone else. Granted, his reason for doing so is rather up-in-the-air, but it could just be chalked down to boredom, curiosity, or the desire to have knowledge that no one else did in the hopes of survival. Fuyuhiko was raised in a family where killing was normal, and he is an abrasive, short tempered person. And hell, I think seeing photos of your dead sister correlated to a murder mystery video game would be pretty scarring for the best of us.

(It should be noted that Fuyuhiko likely made the connection that he was the character that killed Sato, but he has no recollection of the past, so he doesn't know this actually happened. He doesn't see it as an issue though, since killing is pretty much what he was raised to do.)

Due to the correlation between the game's characters and the others on the island, he was able to piece together that Mahiru was likely involved in his sister's murder. His suspicions are further driven when Mahiru starts avoiding him after he requests to discuss it. Obviously, for Fuyuhiko, this would be very angering. He overhears Mahiru talking to Hiyoko, another person whose likeness appears in Twilight Syndrome, and, with Peko's aid, devises a plan to jeopardize their meeting, which works. Peko is able to subdue Hiyoko while Fuyuhiko interrogates Mahiru. However, Mahiru realizes that Fuyuhiko is the one who killed Sato (someone she was very close with) and takes it out on him. In a fit of rage he goes to kill her, but Peko beats him to it.

Peko's thought process is as follows;

Although she murdered Mahiru, she had been taught to view herself as an extension of Fuyuhiko. She believed that she was not human, so regardless of the crimes she committed, the culprit would be her master, Fuyuhiko. She devised a plan that left Fuyuhiko's hands clean and pinned her as the obvious culprit (the Sparkling Justice cover-up was a sort of lock on her plan, if that makes sense). She didn't care who would die, as long as Fuyuhiko would make it out alive.

That's another thing I absolutely love about this case. Peko's motive is unique, and shows how flawed her upbringing was. She would kill everyone around them to be sure her master survives, but it's not purely because she's his swordswoman. Before the reveal that Fuyuhiko and Peko know each other, it's interesting to see the way Fuyuhiko acts at the class trial. In the first class trial, he couldn't care less about who lived or died. But the second Peko begins to get suspected at the second trial, he becomes furious with everyone. It's unclear as to why the first time you see it, but after you can see that it's just how much he cares about her. They both care for each other so, so much, but were never allowed to be honest with themselves. Up until this point in the series, the motives have usually been to escape, or to hide something about oneself. But this is the first time we see love as a defining factor.

People tend to think this trial takes too long, but I'd have to disagree. It's important in these scenarios to look at every possible outcome. Hell, that's probably the most important mechanic in the next game. The small details mixed with Peko's elaborate plan, all while Fuyuhiko loses his shit because Peko is in danger, it's an original concept that I personally think worked very well. It's one of the cases in the series where every little thing you find throughout the chapter is important to the case, and it's details like that that truly make the franchise outstanding.

And oh my God, the execution.

I would argue that this trial's conclusion is easily the biggest punch to the gut in the series. We can see that Peko was fine with either outcome, as long as Fuyuhiko was able to survive. It's the first time that characters have a strong connection outside of the killing game, and I love it. Fuyuhiko, who had been, for lack of a better description, an annoying asshole for the first two chapters of the game, is suddenly stripped of his "cool guy" facade. We see another side of him, a side that truly cares about Peko but was never permitted to express those feelings. It's clear that Peko is experiencing the same sorts of feelings. Seeing the supposedly badass mafia dude break down in fear and anguish is just harrowing.

As if that wasn't enough, the game devs made sure to keep them together until the very end. To my knowledge, this is the only execution in the franchise with two characters involved like this (except perhaps the monokubs in v3, but...)

What's more, this trial has an impact on the entire game moving forward. From the beginning of chapter 3 onward, Fuyuhiko is a completely different character. His walls are broken down after losing someone he loved, someone he loves. As the game progresses, he becomes one of the most likable characters in the franchise. When I started Goodbye Despair, I couldn't stand Fuyuhiko. It wasn't until Peko's execution that I realized he was only the way he was because that's what he was raised to be. I absolutely adore the fact that the character redemption arc for my favourite character was fully inspired by love.

TL;DR, Game 2 Trial 2 is unique, has good and logical motives, and doesn't deserve the rep it gets. My rambling makes no sense and thESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS. Civil discussion is welcome and encouraged, but please leave any arguements or aggression elsewhere :)

#danganronpa #goodbye despair #peko pekoyama #fuyuhiko kuzuryuu #fuyupeko #fuyuhiko x peko #kuzupeko #mahiru koizumi #twilight syndrome #class trial #i have no idea what i'm doing

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littlemisssquiggles · 5 years

Note

You remember my comparison art piece of my Ruby and V7 Ruby? How V7 Ruby seems to be trying to hold onto hope and explore herself as a young woman (as CRWBY said this volume would show a more "playful side" to Ruby). Well, I can see her trying to explore herself because she knows that they might not have a lot of time left, what with how things are. I can see her trying to become more outgoing as a means to experience as much as she can before it's too late.

Hiya Miki-chan. To add to your point, I can see Ruby becoming more relaxed and carefree while everyone is in Atlas due to the fact that, for the first time since, I guess Beacon back in Vale, Atlas will provide our heroes temporary sanctuary. It’s why I like the idea of teams RWBY, JNR and even Oscar as well continuing their huntsmen training at Atlas Academy. After all, I believe the original plan for Haven was for our heroes to travel to Haven to possibly continue their training there? Possibly? Correct me if I’m wrong. However as we saw, this was not the case at all.

I guess I can see our heroes settling down sort of nicely in Atlas and making themselves at home within the kingdom walls. After all, Atlas currently is considered the safest kingdom in Remnant for the time being since Ironwood recalled all of their kingdom’s forces to protect the outer borders which Ironwood also took care of closing off to the outside world. As far as we know, no one is expected to get in or out of Atlas. I also wouldn’t be shocked if there is an invisible force field of some kind surrounding Atlas—possibly one produced by a higher quantity of hard light dust similar to the ones used during the Vytal Festival and Caroline Cordovin of Argus for the mecha-fight.

In the case of Ruby Rose, this squiggle meister is very much intrigued to see this more ‘playful side’ to our young rose. Makes me wonder if we’re going to see Ruby try to be all flirty, catching the attention of potential love interests while in Atlas (apart from Oscar of course). It’d be precious if Ruby is the type to try and be all sexy and flirtatious (possibly encouraged by Neon Katt) only to end up sort of failing, but in an adorable fashion befitting of her chipper personality of course. Makes me think back to my Ruby’s Big Bad Boyfriend headcanons—both one and two.

It also makes me wonder if we’re going to see the typical teenage drama story trope where Ruby is the girl naïve to love and romance who falls for like the first impressively handsome love interest to take an interest in her only to have this person be revealed to be a fake ass hat who breaks her heart.

And then this leads to our boy Oscar Pine coming in clutch to sort of white-knight for Ruby, schooling the jerk who hurt his lovely red rose while simultaneously revealing to Ruby the charming little prince behind the gentle farm boy who’s been in front of her eyes the entire time.

Yes I know this all sounds mighty cheesy right now but…aw hell, who doesn’t like some cheesy romance? The hopeless romantic side of shipping heart beats for this kind of stuff and I think it could be adorable for our titular smaller, more honest Rosebuds since their friendship and bond is so adorable and pure.

I’ve talked once or twice before of seeing a more carefree side of Ruby who spends her time worrying about normal teenage girl stuff—like her looks or romantic relationships and stuff like that as opposed to what we’re accustomed seeing from her—a young girl thrust into the leadership role and influenced to be a voice of reason,guidance and motivation to her older teammates.

Seeing this side of Ruby could be sweet. I’m all for ‘Ruby the Teenaged Girl’ moments in V7 especially when it comes to seeing this so-called ‘playful side of her’. I’m sorry, this just makes me think that Ruby is gonna try to flirt with someone only to fail hard but still looks cute nonetheless.

One moment that I’m hoping for is a possible parallel to V2. One thing that fans like myself are anticipating for V7 is a reunion with Team FNKI who eventually take our heroes partying or clubbing in Atlas, as promised by Neon back in V3.

I remember @ezroar even sharing an idea about FNKItaking our heroes to an secret underground rave and quite frankly I’m all for this idea. I’m especially for this idea if it leads into another ‘Painting the Town’-esque type of episode where we get to see everyone dress down and rock casual wear including the JNR gang plus Oscar.

Anyways why I’m hoping for another partying or dancing episode is for the sake of seeing a parallel moment where Oscar is possibly alone in the corner at the club, feeling socially awkward and out of place amongst all the dancing bodies and flashing lights and Ruby is the one to come over and kind o fcoax him into having fun.

I want this because it would be a nice call back to the scene in the Vytal Festival Ball with Ozpin where Ruby was alone and Oz came over to impart his usual wisdom on her.

I think this could be a great way to show just how much Ozpin’s wisdom has influenced Ruby in a way. With all the negativity surrounding Oz’s characterization as of late, it would be nice to have the show give a little reminder that Oz is a good man who, more or less, always looked out for the children in his care and cared for them as their mentor.

Say what you will about him. Yes he’s done some shady things in the past that could paint him as a gray character. Although more light gray than people believe him to be since I still stand by the notion that Oz’s actions were justifiable. But then again, that’s just me talking here.

Nevertheless, Ozpin was a good mentor who offered great advice whenever he could. And one of the people he imparted that wisdom to was Ruby Rose. I guess I just really would like to see the two messages that Oz left with Ruby come back to be used by Ruby to counsel Oscar in a sense.

To me that could be a good segway to frame that there is still a side of Ruby that believes in the words Ozpin told her. Not to mention that it can also open the door to show that in spite of what happened, Ruby still believes in the good of Ozpin . In the past, whenever she needed his advice, Oz willingly helped her during moments where she felt emotionally vulnerable. Ozpin showed Ruby empathy during those times. He chose to understand her. Help her even. And Ruby wasn’t the only one Oz helped before or showed empathy to. This could then potentially lead to Ruby suffering a stark revelation of what she did to Ozpin; realizing the wrong in what she put him through.

Yes, her actions with Jinn may have finally gotten the untold truth about Salem, however it revealed more than that. It also forced Oz (and possibly all the other lives that are a part of him since he is a culmination of countless of men) to relive some of the most tragic memories of his past.

Ruby exposed Oz. She unlocked all his skeletons without his consent.She laid out all of his dirty laundry to an audience of people who showed him no mercy. This is why I will always stand in the court that defends Ozpin. While I understand that he kept secrets from the group and I empathize with them feeling angry and resentful toward him for that particular reason. Ozpin did wrong but that doesn’t make what the group put him through any less right or good. It still doesn’t look any less bad when you acknowledge the other side of this coin that highlights that Oz was a person who was always kind,understanding and sympathetic to each and every face in the group that turned their backs on him.

Oz may have had secrets and told lies but he had justifiable cause. He’s also not the only one amongst the heroes sailing in the same boat. I just find it really sad that Oz never turned his back on anyone in his team. He always showed them empathy when they laid their insecurities at his feet. But the minute he needed that understanding in return, he…doesn’t get it. We don’t even get to see one person in the group consider the bigger picture or the other side of the picture. Everyone just adopts the same impression.

Salem can’t be killed. Oz lied about it to them. He doesn’t have a plan and he’s a bastard for it, according to Yang. I was expecting the truth about Oz to divide the heroes just as much as it has divided the fandom. But instead,everyone just adopts this one-sided thought that puts Oz as someone to be distrusted and he becomes a subject that no one wants to discuss—or rather the Writers don’t want them to discuss. Yet.

The only person who at the moment seems to be sympathetic with Oz is,Oscar. But that could potentially come back to bite the poor kid in the behind for the obvious issue with that. Poor Oscar. He’s probably going to have to play super glue or tin foil to a group that’s crumbling at the seams. Yes the heroes managed to get by without Ozpin’s influence for now. But how long is that luck going to last? Especially when General Dimples comes back into the picture?

Arthur Watts did point out back in V6 that Ozpin is the only one who can talk sense back into James. But how much will Oz help if he isn’t willing to show up. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a scene where Qrow takes Oscar to speak Ironwood on the hope that the kid would be able to pull the same ‘parlour trick’ he did back in V5 when he and Oz first soul swapped.

Unfortunately for Qrow, Oscar is unable to soul swap since there is no other soul to swap to. Oz still isn’t there nor is he willing to come out. He may have shown up to assist Oscar that one time since he was in immediate danger but I doubt Oz will do that again. Not even to see James. As a matter of fact,I figured Oz would feel even more ashamed to face James since he falls in the category of being another man, like Qrow, who put his fate fully in Oz under the impression that they were doing good that was actually helping humanity. Imagine how much more devastated and paranoid Ironwood might become if he learnt the truth? As a matter of fact, it might even be worse if Ironwood learnt the truth. Since V2, Ironwood had shown doubt in Oz despite their affiliation. He was also the one member of his circle to actually challenge his authority. How do you think James would react if he found out that all of the uncertainties he showed in Oz’s judgement were fact? That he’s better off trusting his old judgement than in his old friend.

Ironwood learning the truth could backfire badly on the heroes,especially if Oz isn’t there to soften the blow with his words. Just like everyone else, James could become another person to paint Oz as a liar leading people to their unavoidable deaths with all of the good he’s done being thrown out the window over one main mistake.

A mistake which, ironically, was the point he was trying to make before with Lionheart. I guess what I’m saying here is—Ozpin was wrong for keeping the truth about Salem a secret and lying about it. However, in my opinion, he had justifiable reasons for doing so which I understood.

I mean, I can go and on as to why I still defend Ozpinbut that’s not the topic on discussion right now. In a nutshell, I want V7 to show Ruby Rose recalling the advice Ozpin gave to her at Beacon and using those same words while she’s trying to motivate and/or assist Oscar through his development as a huntsman.

The impression I have is we are going to get to see Ruby truly stand up and stand by Oscar, probably a lot more than we’ve seen her in past seasons since out of everyone on the hero squad, Ruby relates to Oscar the most since she’s been in his shoes before as the underdog youngster planted with the badge of leadership with a lot of expectations to come from you (and I seriously hope the season plays off of this to help strengthen their dynamic and blossoming friendship).

Going back to the rave idea, I think it could be cute to have Oscar being at the club and feeling like he doesn’t belong there (which could potentially tie into his suppressed emotions over the Merge and feeling overwhelmed by everything that has happened to him within the past few weeks). Ruby takes notice of Oscar’s awkwardness and joins him in the corner. She tries her best to sort of emulate Ozpin in that moment, remembering the same words Oz once told her about dancing being not too similar from combat and how it’s good to take the time to enjoy yourselves when you get the chance.

In spite of Ruby’s reassuring words, Oscar admits to her that it’s not the dancing part that’s making him feel uneasy, it’s other things—basically it boils down to Oscar feeling sort of out of his element and feeling useless for not being able to keep up with everyone else when he’s expected to, given his situation.

This then inspires Ruby to help Oscar so she takes him away from all the loud music and sweaty dancing bodies toa much more quieter section of the club. Let’s say, according to Flynt who knows the place,there is an abandoned ole school dance hall with a jukebox in the back. The equipment still works but it hasn’t been used in while. Ruby accepts this place since at least it’d be quiet and secluded enough for her and Oscar to have some privacy while she helps him out.

This moment then leads to another heartfelt conversation between theRosebuds which also leads into Oscar bucking up the courage to ask Ruby to share a dance with him which she accepts. Rather than bumping and grinding to fast paced technobabble like their friends, Ruby and Oscar spend the remainder of the night slow dancing in each other’s arms in the back by themselves; just going with the flow to the tune of their own beat all the while enjoying and appreciating each other’s company.

I’m still sticking to my guns that Oscar is quite a decent dancer but is more accustomed to slow dancing, having been raised by his old fashioned farm bred family in the farm lands of Anima. And let’s say this works out great for Ruby as well since, I have a feeling that while in Atlas, Ruby might want to done away with her old ‘not a fancy-prancy-dancy girl’ act and give dancing a go. However Ruby is the opposite of Oscar. While Oscar knows how to dance but is apprehensive about the clubbing side of it, Ruby on the other hand becomes open to giving things a try but has difficulty since she doesn’t know how to dance.

And what doesn’t help is that she winds up pairing up with partners who,let’s say, aren’t willing to be patient with her slip ups. So in the end, the evening works out well enough for both Rosebuds when they fight a compatible (dance) partner in each other. Ruby helps Oscar to relax and go withthe flow while Oscar is patient with Ruby and helps her to see the joy o fdancing. Or…something along those lines.

That’s something I think would be adorable for the buds. Who knows? Maybe we might actually see Ruby make Oscar smile brighter and laugh uncontrollably for once in the show apart from his usual short chortles.

My headcanon is that Oscar is extremely self-conscious about laughing too much cause he’s a snorter—he does a cute little piggy laugh whenever you ge thim to laugh too much or even a little more than usual. The first time Ruby heard Oscar legit piggy laugh, Oscar was incredibly embarrassed about it afterwards but Ruby just found it to be the cutest thing ever. That’s it. That’s my headcanon and you can’t tell me otherwise.

Continuing on my last ask, I can see Ruby changing her outfit and style before seeing more distressing news, maybe them showcasing the news of them stealing from Argus and the grimm attack- it shows her face and her old outfit.

Her face begins to tremble from trying to suppress tears… before her expression hardens with determination. She throws on her outfit and then begins to spike up her hair. She refuses to be brought down by this. She will rise and she will live.

As you brought it up, I’m curious to know how the series is going tohandle what happened in Argus. Or rather if they would actually address it atall. From the way V6 ended, it just feels that we’re more likely to see ourheroes go to Atlas without facing any repercussions on their actions in Argus.Especially coming off of how Cordovin said she was going to cover up for them in the paperwork.

I did like your idea from Reconciliation where our heroes wounded up apprehended by the Atlesian authorithies only to receive release and a bit of parlay from Ironwood. That seemed fitting. However I think what we’re more likely to see is how the events of Argus affected the image of Atlas to therest of Remnant…again.

Afterall, what the people of Argus saw wasn’t Cordovin using the mecha to apprehend a monster (at least not at first). Nope, what they saw was Cordovin more abusing the power of the Atlas military while making boldfaced proclamations about how much the world has forgotten about the ‘awesome might of Atlas’ and to consider her actions a reminder of that.

That is what the civilians saw and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what will be brought back to bite Atlas in the ass as another pressure Ironwood has to deal with as both the General of the Atlas Military and a member of the Atlas Council.

This actually makes me wonder something.

What if…based on how things look, all the blame for the stunt in Argus is placed on Caroline Cordovin and her forces in Argus,forcing Ironwood to recall them too back to Atlas for their immediate expulsion?

If the heroes found out that Cordovin was to be punished or worse,jailed for the stunt in Argus, do you think they would step up and take the blame in her place, revealing the truth to Ironwood? Would Ironwood even be willing to listen to them giving his mental state?

I guess I’ll conclude with this question and wait to hear your answer.

~LittleMissSquiggles (2019)

#miki-13 #squiggles answers #oscar pine #ruby rose #oscar and ruby #professor ozpin #rwby theories #squiggles answers: rwby

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megashadowdragon · 5 years

Text

jaune will have a confrontation with yang when he finds out the truth

that yang was keeping raven branwen being the spring maiden a secret while before she told ozpin no secrets or half truths ( while then keeping a secret herself and that ozpin kept secrets to protect them and the world in contrast to yangs secrets

itsclydebitches . tumblr . com/post/181776207310/a-response-to-the-claim-that-yangs-secret

the-kiwi-is-not-a-pewee . tumblr . com/post/180434178440/yangs-secret-and-its-potential-risks

(edit: and this might be driven in part due to the deaths of people jaune cares about like nora or ren dies (and/or his family members if the jaune is from atlas theory is true) protecting the relic of knowledge so it will be put in the vault for the relic of creation that would give jaune even more incentive to be pissed at yang for yang didnt even try to get raven to relock the vault and the entire reason they went to atlas was to find a safe place for the relic because they didnt have the spring maiden

(

imagine how nora would react if ren died protecting the relic and then found out yangs secret ( noras based on thor who fought against the giant sea serpent Jörmungandr (the midgard serpent ) and yangs named after a chinese dragon ( which are associated with the sea/water

they have snake like bodies and in some stories like light novels eastern style dragons are mistaken for snakes/sea serpents (heck there was a story wherein eastern there is a myth about how dragons first start of as snake like creature but then they will grow and shed the skin of a snake and become a dragon In the sixteenth century of our era a Japanese author1 spoke of an old (certainly Chinese) tradition, according to which a dragon’s fetus lives during a thousand years in the sea, for a thousand years in the mountains and, after having been among men (“in a village”, says the text) for the same long period, it finally is born, becomes a dragon and ascends to the sky2. During these three thousand years the fetus lives as a very small snake within astone, the dragon’s egg, which is first lying at the bottom of the sea, then comes to the mountains (how it got there is not explained), where after a thousand years it is picked up by somebody who carries it home and preserves it on account of its beautiful colours, or uses it as an ink-stone (suzuri, 硯 ). As it invariably has the remarkable peculiarity of constantly producing water (the dragon’s element), it is a very convenient ink-stone indeed3. But woe him who possess such a stone at the end of the millennial period which the fetus must pass among mankind, for then the stone splits, and a small snake creeps out of it, which in a few moments becomes larger and larger, and with a terrible noise forces its way to the sky, smashing the roof amid thunder and lightning, and ascending in a dark cloud. The little reptile has become an enormous four-legged dragon, which leaves the narrow abodes of men and frees himself in this terrific way.” japanesemythology . wordpress . com/stories-of-dragon-eggs-a-ka-dragon-inkstones-in-japan/

. Jaune’s episode in V5 chapter 11 shows that he’ll take the deaths personally.

)

as many people know I believe that jaune’s evil counterpart is salem given the many parallels and that I believe that jaune will come around to understanding ozpin and realizing the truth of the mission and that oz was right ( with oz joining team jnpr as jaunes partner the new p)

megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/157918109672/oscar-pine-will-join-team-jnpr-and-be-the-new-p/embed

and that jaune will realize its not ozpins fault pyrrha died remember that oz told them to leave but pyrrha chose to fight cinder despite not needing to and jaune and ozpin will become partners ( jaune realizing that oz had nothing but bad options and had no choice but to seek a replacement for the fall maiden to get the powers to keep the fall maiden powers from going into salems hands) and pyrrha was just the best option. and that ozpin gave pyrrha a choice and gave her time to think it over ( for jaune would realize that pyrrha would normally say yes immediately ) and explained all the gritty details. ozpin did his best to make pyrrha feel safe ( and that ozpin doesnt know pyrrha as well as he does so acting like it was all his fault pyrrha died just because oz’s group went to pyrrha to become the fall maiden is ridiculous just like its ridiculous to to blame the guy who gave a mission out to a team for a death on that team) oz never manipulated pyrrha megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/152357996242/salem-is-jaunes-evil-counterpart/embed

alexkablob . tumblr . com/post/179967541409/i-just-cannot-believe-for-years-now-ive-been

I just cannot believe

for years now I’ve been saying Arkos was classic heroic romance tropes with Pyrrha in the classical male role and Jaune in the classical female role

and this is actually true in-universe, because Pyrrha parallels Oz and Jaune parallels Salem.

Arkos is paralleling Ozpin and Salem but better and not screwing up the way they did, with Pyrrha as Ozpin and Jaune as Salem

(the multiple scenes where ozma disintegrating in the exact same fashion that pyrrha nikos had disintegrated in at the end of v3

There’s also the part where Jaune was unable to save Pyrrha and had to struggle with a death wish (seriously jaune was borderline suicidal and some may say that was until his fight with cinder but I think its still there )

alexkablob . tumblr . com/post/179997954479/ozmas-pyrrha-parallels-are-making-jaunes-current?is_liked_post=1

Ozma’s Pyrrha parallels are making Jaune’s current suicidal tendencies even more painful tbh

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT OZ AND SALEM WERE ACTUALLY GENDER-FLIPPED ARKOS “

I mean seriously Ozma is destroyed by the God of Light and darkness in the same manner that Cinder destroyed Pyrrhas body

and I forgot to add about how salem was suicidal

another post on ozpin and pyrrhas parallels

fandomsallaroundme . tumblr . com/post/180795589689/today-on-persephone-over-analyzes-everything-on

aspiringwarriorlibrarian . tumblr . com/post/179972347584/edelblume-righteousness-n-the-quality-of#notes

Righteousness n. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

fandomsallaroundme . tumblr . com/post/180623532289/so-a-thought-occurred-to-me-ozma-x-salem-parallels#notes

sunder-the-gold . tumblr . com/post/180072404979/alexkablob-so-ozpin-interrupting-the-light

So.

Ozpin interrupting the Light God to say “I’ll do it” before he fully understood what was being asked of him.

And the Light god just taking it as assent without explaining further.

Wow I guess we know now why he looked so stricken when Pyrrha did the exact same thing before he’d finished explaining.”

note and as sunder-the-gold sid

sunder-the-gold

And then Ozpin said, “No, please, let me explain what this could do to you.”

and then he proceeded to give her time to think about it

.” basically he saw the parallels between himself and pyrrha how they said yes before they fully understood what was being asked of them and told her to think it over and explained what it could do to her and the way he described it sounded just the way he described what was happening to oscar and him .

dustypotion . tumblr . com/post/179999477247/i-got-an-interesting-ask-from-an-anon-and-wanted

“ wanted to delve deeper into the idea that jaune and pyrrha are also mirrors of ozpin and salem. but here, jaune is the reflection of salem, while pyrrha is the reflection of ozpin. pyrrha was the righteous, moral, talented soldier while jaune is the grieving person that was saved, and sought vengeance for their lost love. pyrrha also stuck to a moral code, like ozpin did, while jaune and salem both used alternative, immoral methods to reach their goals. there’s also the fact that salem’s emblem looked like jaune’s AND jaune’s semblance has the same visual look of the magic that made salem immortal “

and yang xiao long is chinese for little sun dragon and the god of lights can turn into an golden/yellow eastern dragon

not only did salem in her first meeting gets mad at the god and yell at him but later on managed to turn people against the gods and head to the god of lights domain

which makes me wonder if jaune and yang will have a confrontation and if something jaune does causes people to turn against yang like ren and nora for example ( plus the fact that jaune has a knight theme while yang is named after a dragon and how knights slay dragons / are enemies typically in fairy tales makes me wonder not to mention jaunes sword being named crocea mors which means yellow death not saying jaune will kill yang though I once made a theory for fun about yang turning evil and the thing that killed her being jaunes sword just jaune and yang will have a confrontation)

megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/186096788612/yang-will-lose-her-left-arm-ending-up-having/embed

Monty Oum was a huge BlazBlue fan and based Penny’s fighting style (and possibly her origin as a robot girl) on Nu and her Murakumo Unit “sisters who were made with souls like how penny is a robot girl with a soul) with those floating swords her weapon is divine radiance murakumo which starts off as a big sword it turns into 8 floating blades surrounding the user, and their armor. . and I think qrow with his giant sword that can turn into a scythe may have been inspired by ragna whose giant sword can turn into a scythe

and yang xiao long took inspiration from bullet (their weapons

who appeared before her Bullet was included in the JPN 1.0 arcade version, which came out in November 2012, while the Yellow trailer was June 2013.

So yeah, it’s impossible for Bullet to have been inspired by Yang, and there’s a greater-than-zero chance Yang was inspired by Bullet, especially considering that Namine from Dead Fantasy 6 (8?) copies moves from Nu 13 (the most obvious is Nu’s 5C).

both of them had someone disappear from their lives tager ( who lost his memories ) and raven ) and they chased after them going around trying to find info but while tager cared about bullet raven straight up abandoned yang.

the seemingly minute differences between Aura/dust and Magic is a leftover from how Ars Magus and Magic work in Blazblue.

, Qrow is basically just a color inverted, older version of Ragna the Bloodedge, down to their weapons.

the finale of Volume 6 has a LOT of similarities to the ending of Chronophantasma, what with the heroes fighting a giant artificial enemy bring about a change in the protagonist.

and yang losing arm to adam with his katana reminds me of ragna losing his arm due to terumi a psychopath with a katana and they both replaced their left arms with a artificial limb (azure grimoire in the form of an arm) and when terumi took ragnas arm he was possessing jin ( and both jin and ragna were kids when this happened ) jin would later on become an iaijutsu practicioner like adam taurus and would have some yandere tendencies // mental unstability/ax crazyness.

)

and in blazblue continuum shift ragna ended up losing his other arm ( the one that had been a real limb ) and being forced to get another artificial arm

so either when yang lose her other arm it will be a reference to how ragna lost his arm in continum shift or it will also be another reference to how ragna lost his arm to jin influenced by terumi . when jin influenced by terumi ( terumi ) meddled with his mind ) cut of ragnas arm he blamed ragna for what happeend going its your fault after he cut off ragnas arm so maybe yang will lose her other arm to someone blaming her for something (possibly someones death given that the nun who took care of ragna, jin and their sister saya died)

hakumen who started off as jin who was often called the hero of ikagura from an alternate timeline lost his love interest a red head named tsubaki who died and was sent back to the past injured where rachel offers to help him become a true hero. From here, his soul is bound to the Susano-o armor, and he becomes Hakumen the leader of the 6 heroes who is one of the strongest in the game

so jaune who has a desire to be a hero like his ancestors to the point he cheated his way into beacon and had a red haired love interest who died could be compared to hakumen/jin in that sense though their personality’s are completely different like how bullets personality is different from yangs

(also the fact that jin was adopted into the kisaragi family a noble family thats part of the 12 originator families in blazblue (and didnt care about bloodline and gathered talented people around the world) could be referenced with jaune being adopted into the arc family and is just so close to them that he doesnt care about them not being biologically related to him theyre family. and jaunes insecurities (and a possible previous event in his life given that jaune said in volume 1 that he wanted to stop being the guy stuck in a tree as his friends fought for their lives so its possible someone close to him died

so either if this is true with the jin and jaune connections and they do another blazblue reference with yang losing her other arm jaune could be the one to do it due to blaming yang for what happened . as a reference to jin going its your fault brother plus jin and hakumen had the desire to kill ragna in alot of the game series so what if jaune wants to kill yang )

another reason why I connect jin with jaune is due to how qrow rubys uncle she learnt everything from is alot like ragna and jaune and ruby are foils to each other so it fits

hawkeyedflame . tumblr . com/post/152581160728/on-rubys-elusive-character-development-or-why

“ jaune is a foil To Ruby. She’s a prodigy who quickly became a deadly warrior at a young age and is welcomed into Beacon two years early as a result while Jaune is a hard worker who progresses slowly and had to lie his way into Beacon because of his nonexistent combat background. Ruby is a strategist specialized on pre-defined team attacks and wields a self-made weapon capable of long range combat. Jaune is a tactician specialized in creating new team attacks according to his analysis on the battlefield and wields a family heirloom only capable of close range combat. Ruby has a rather broken family but they fully support her decision to become a huntress while Jaune’s family is large and united but they don’t support his choices nor have any faith on him. Ruby is a tomboy who dominates the battlefield but doesn’t enjoy dancing whereas Jaune tends to act girly and is initially terrible at fighting but also a great dancer. The more you look into them as a pair, the more contrasts that can be spotted in the details.”

jaune has a more “feminine way of dealing with emotions” while ruby has the more masculine way of dealing with emotions

aminoapps . com/c/rwby/page/blog/why-its-good-for-jaunes-semblance-to-be-a-support-type/xpp7_XQ4s2u6RGX2zboa6JwM2XMekWGZd68

“Joan of Arc is known for breaking gender stereotypes about what it meant to be a woman. And if you think about it in a lot of ways Jaune doesn’t fit into the stereotypical “man box.” We are don’t “men don’t cry.” He wears his emotions on his sleeve. While in the real world men (and in the world of RWBY BOTH men and women ARGUABLY) are told to be strong. And that many people superficially equate physical strength with heroism (Raven?) it is fitting that Jaune’s semblance doesn’t so much doesn’t so much empower himself, as it empowers others. (as well as himself but its more effective on others in the team since they are more skilled than him) The so called “Feminine” strength.” P.S. Hmm as a follow-up to my The Importance Of Foils Part 2 post. I think that Ruby, despite being a girl, fits into the “man box” better than anyone else including it’s UNHEALTHY WAYS OF DEALING WITH EMOTIONS. The only difference is on remnant, it’s not because a man doesn’t cry. But because “a hero doesn’t cry.”

ruby first activated her silver eyes leading to her to learn about them when she saw pyrrha jaunes partner impaled by cinder and burnt to ash failing to save pyrrha her awakening being in reaction to her death while jaune activated his semblance and realized what it was when he saw rubys partner weiss impaled by cinder and was able to save her life awakening his semblance to do so allowing him to learn what his semblance was ( which is a good example this is an example of them being foils and how its been shown and effected their storys )

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#rwby #rwby theory #rwby theories #jaune arc #rwby jaune #rwby yang #yang xiao long #rwby yang #yang rwby #rwby meta #ozma #rwby ozma

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yang-did-everything-right · 6 years

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Episode Eleven

I’m a bit late on this but I didn’t sleep amazingly so it had to wait, still really that title is all we really need right? No one who watches RWBY right now, not even the antis, not even they can say this was a bad episode. Because if you strip out the shipping, it was still an amazing episode. It had a new medley for the mecha fight with parts from every character’s theme, unified themes and it was a very technically sound portion. But that’s not what you’re here for, lets be honest. I know what you’re here for, so lets get right to it.

Adam vs Blake, was poetry in motion. It was a story being told before our eyes. It was a snapshot that was once black and white, but given color and life before our eyes. We knew and assumed many things about how a fight between Adam and Blake might go were she not paralyzed by fear and this was pretty much it. She was scared, to be sure. but Adam felt the need to verbalize it because she dared to resist against the death she so plainly deserved in his eyes. A good half of the fight was her running away, because she certainly did not want to be there. If she could get away from him instead of fight him, she’d prefer that. However he denied her that option and so she fought and boy did she. Her finesse, clever counter attacks and sharp use of her semblance allowed her to keep up with Adam for a time. She even managed to get his sword away from him which was amazing. However, Adam trained her and is still able to get into her head even now. More importantly however, he is physically stronger than her and allowing him to grapple her again is what sealed her fate in their fight. Had she been able to keep him from his sword the battle might well have gone in her favor. Still for being the underdog in their fight she had a resounding showing and I for one am extremely proud of Blake. However the fight that came next, made it clear that he was drastically holding back against her, likely due to the fact that he knew her and her combat style so well that he could afford to. Though when she took his blade away, that stopped. It was only afterwards that he started using his semblance and broke one half of gambol shroud. Though it was what followed that led to what is up to now, the best fight in this volume if not the series. Yang vs Adam. She came in with a Yang and Bumblebee was sacrificed to give Bumbleby life. Adam also took the full brunt of that motorcycle to the aura and there was no indication he blocked any of it, so it was easily the single biggest hit he’s taken so far and surely played into the later fight. Some people have wondered how Yang could be so apparently fearless during her fight when she plainly still suffered from ptsd in a big way. It might not be immediately obvious to people without/lacking understanding of ptsd, but as someone that suffers it I am in a unique position to elaborate. The thing about ptsd is, while you will always have it, it is not always ‘on’ and it can be completely overridden by a greater mental stimuli. For Yang, her emotional trauma was first and foremost, the loss of Blake and secondly, the loss of her arm. This can be seen in how she is able to easily joke about her arm and condition, with her father and later with her team and JNR. However she cannot do the same when it comes to Blake. Every single time Blake was brought up prior to them meeting again, it was met with anger, sadness and depression. This was absolutely intentional, as Blake is wound up tight within the mental condition of ptsd for Yang. So, Yang was presented with an absolute reason to be fearless. The Absolute Loss of Blake.Blake’s death would be an inconsolable weight on Yang, something I am very sure she would be unable to recover from. Moreso if it happened due to her own inaction, thus the exact opposite happened and her action revved into overdrive. Adding to this however, comes all the way from volume 4. The song Armed and Ready. Songs in this series are intrinsically tied to characters and the very theme of the show, music and art and colors were once outlawed in the world of remnant and an entire war was fought to bring those things back into the light. Whole generations of people named after colors and music and art as a form of rebellion. This is not an accident. Yang has been pumping herself up for this fight for three whole volumes, anyone who has similar experiences can verify that more than anything else, it is a battle of the mind. So that takes us to the fight itself and it was insane. Adam shows the audience immediately that his showing in v5 was a fluke from being outsmarted, outplotted and goaded into action by his victim. He did not just want to finish Yang, he wanted to humiliate her, dominate her and break her. That, is what he wanted to do. Key word, Wanted. He threw the book at Yang. His attack echos were particularly interesting, where his semblance was used to create ‘echos’ of his attacks that followed up with his attacks briefly. He also used a number of shockwaves, blast waves, blade beams and the like but it was effective at only one thing, knocking Yang away. Because once she got into his guard? She absolutely pummeled him the likes of which I’d never expected. But lets take this piece by piece, when Adam began fighting Yang he rushed her aggressively and seemingly put her on the defensive. But this was not him putting her on the defensive, this was Yang doing her homework on the spot. We need to remember something, Yang has -never- seen Adam fight before. Never. Her only experience with Adam, was losing an arm to a single slash too fast to even follow. So the only thing she knew was, “If I can see him, I have a chance.” The most important part of any duel, is if both opponents even have the means of challenging eachother. If not, then it isn’t a duel, it is a one sided slaughter. The first test then, was seeing if she could follow his attacks at all. Spoiler alert: boy could she. She used his heavy opening aggression as a way to feel out his speed and strength, she discovered pretty early that she was stronger than him. She also learned that his energy blasts multiplied his strength enough to send her skidding backwards. Most importantly however, she learned that she was no longer too slow to keep up with him and in fact, reacted faster than he did. She evaded his actual attacks and blocked his echos and energy, he did not land a single attack on her that was not blocked. This is extremely important. Once the opening salvo was done, she turned on the offense and Adam absolutely had no answer for it. She pounded him really hard and you could hear the sounds of pain from him, if you pause the video at choice parts to boot, you can see his face twisted in anguish. She hurt him. She forced him into the defensive which is a problem for her. Why? Because his core style isn’t an offensive one as most seem to believe. His core style is defend and counter, that is what his semblance is built around. Defending enough to build a meter and unleash brutal counters. Yang’s brutal offensive forced him to return to his basics, blocking as many of her attacks as he could with his sword, so that he could attempt to speed blitz and blast wave her to death. However this was also blocked which put her in position for Blake to give her a quick lesson on his semblance which changed everything. The parallel of her having to feel the pain of the damage she took verses him being able to get away with feeling nothing was extremely powerful, as it outlined a sociopath compared to one who self sacrifices. Once Yang understood, Adam failed to block her attacks with her sword again for a fair portion because she no longer went for his sword as a strike target, she even used the very move she used in v3 to come at him, just to juke and school him in a beautiful combo. However this was when Adam actually used his sword to block an incoming strike rather than making his sword a target, because he couldn’t get away with that anymore. The resulting blast and very heavy fighting left Yang tired even though she had not really taken any damage. Importantly however, Adam was also left panting and looking weary. He certainly had not expected the blond that he’d one shot a year ago to be giving him a genuine run for his money, yet here we are. More than that though, he also saw the look that Yang and Blake were giving eachother and it was a stark reminder of that moment in v3. That moment when he considered Yang someone worth killing to torment Blake, someone that Blake loved. At that moment, it was a bit more likely that he considered them close friends rather than intimate. But even love between dear friends can be powerful, just look at how devastated Yang was after the fact. They certainly had not been dating then, they certainly had not confessed any feelings then. At that point in their lives, they were just very very good friends. Yet now Adam saw more, Adam saw something in their eyes that enraged him to the point where he empowered himself for an attack so powerful that Blake cried out Yang’s name in such fear like we’ve never seen in this show before. Truly, it was a bad ass looking attack. It was mighty, powerful and awe inspiring. Notably however, Yang blocked it with her mechanical arm and this is important. She did not use her real arm and aura to block it, she did not spend aura to block this attack likely because she couldn’t have. I fully believe that this attack was a kill move, it would have cut through her aura and dealt a truly terrible wound. The fact that it was able to so deeply scar her mechanical arm, something that up to now had not even taken a scratch? Something that Ironwood had personally developed for her? Something that was cutting edge the year it was made? Instead, she tanked that attack like it was nothing and gave Adam a look that left no room for misinterpretation. She was done. Yet despite that, she still gave him a chance. “Leave US alone.” Not just Yang, not just Blake. He was both of their nightmare, but now he was not an invincible dream. Now he could bleed, now he could hurt and now he was standing in front of her. Her high tension however began leading to her shakes, shakes that stemmed from the fight, memories, the ptsd struggling to break through and his taunting when he noticed it certainly didn’t help.

However, Blake was there. Yang was not alone either, just like Blake had not been. Blake learned from the shed, Yang learned from the waterways. Stronger Together. “We’re Protecting Eachother.” They held hands in what might well be the most iconic moment of the series, right in front of Adam. The man struggling so hard to break and kill them. The stage is set, the audience is ready. The final act of this play will commence soon and soon we will see the passing of a great villain, who absolutely deserves everything that is coming to him. Remember his short, remember it well. Phew, my longest post yet. I hope you folks enjoy it. If you have any asks, questions, comments or critiques, please feel free to send them my way.

#rwby #rwby spoilers #RWBY volume 6 #Yang Xiao Long #Blake Belladonna #adam taurus #bumbleby

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