Sebastian Vael would've been such a better character for the Dragon Age fandom to enjoy if in act 3 instead of the shitty "here, have a Leliana cameo and another proof there's Blood Magic Everywhere in Kirkwall, go fetch!" quest, we had a different one.
Let's say... Hawke has an option of investigating a weird deal between a chantry sister and a Starkhaven diplomat, and during it you uncover that the chantry has been embezzling from Starkhaven's treasury, as well as putting "former chantry members" (read: malleable or outright Chantry puppets) in the ruling circle which is currently holding Starkhaven afloat in absence of Sebastian as their Prince.
If Sebastian is not in the party as you uncover this, you have an option to either tell him about it, or investigate the questline further. If he is, however, in the party as you find the first notice of something being wrong between Chantry and Starkhaven relations, Sebastian will exclaim that this is a mistake, someone posing outside (or within) a Chantry to implicate either Starkhaven royalty, or Grand Cleric Elthina, and reference Sister Petrice. The moment you involve him in the questline, however, he'll be locked in for the investigation missions, and start getting special points in the code, one for each encounter (including the very first one starting the questline), for the final confrontation of the questline. The same happens if you start involving Sebastian at any other point of the questline, but with less and less points available.
As you progress, there would be three more quests to go through, one of which even takes you to either the outskirts of Starkhaven, or to the busy streets of it, allowing 1) to show another city state of Free Marches, 2) where Sebastian comes from, 3) actually be worth your money for the DLC, if ideal DA2 still had him as a DLC companion. Which I still hate with burning passion a decision, same with Javik being DLC in ME3.
The questline has chantry sisters and nobles implicated, Flora Harriman reaching out to Hawke about weird decisions made in Starkhaven politics, resembling what her mother did, and at a second quest there's even a possibility of you uncovering a chantry brother in a contract with a Desire demon. It seems like it all leads up to corruption in the political sphere and stragglers in the Chantry circles, right?
Except. On the final quest. It is revealed that Elthina, in her own handwriting, no forgery as confirmed by any rogue in the party, has forced Grand Cleric of Starkhaven to resign, installed her own puppet (one of the chantry sisters you might see in Act 1) as a new Grand Cleric, all for a bid of "uniting the Free Marches under the Chantry banner". It also implies that Sister Petrice was telling the truth, and that Elthina was, in fact, more involved with the unrest against Qunari than one would believe in the base game (I believe she was involved, but it's not majorly pertaining to this post in particular). There's a letter that implies Lady Harimann was allowed to do what she did, because Elthina believed she'd be able to manipulate Sebastian in favour of the Chantry. It also unveils how many people of Starkhaven were hurt by this. Turns out, a lot.
Then, you can go about this questline ending several ways.
This is where the points counting in the background come into play.
If you did not bring Sebastian alongside you on any of the missions, or if there aren't enough points for you to sway him... Sebastian will claim the evidence as plot against his support of the Chantry and Elthina specifically, and burn the letters in particular, calling them a "bad replica of what sister Petrice tried to do". Elthina, on prodding, feigns innocence, or if you have not talked to Sebastian yet, calls him in to discuss "this silly accusation", which gives +15 rivalry if you're not in a locked relationship with him. He still burns the letters, and accuses you of believing the conspirators, or even being one of them. There are some undertones in Elthina's dialogue to imply she's ready to blackmail you back if you press the matter, and Hawke has no choice but to back off.
If you bring Sebastian along and your relationship with him at this point is so-so, neither a full friendship or a rivalry, you'd need at least 3 points with favourable dialogue, this makes Sebastian question the Chantry, even Elthina. You'd need all 4 points (bringing him from the get go in your party when they rock up to the start of the questline) without going further into discussion for him to buckle. With friendship, you'd need to bring him on at least 2 missions, or 3 with favourable dialogue. With rivalry, however, you need for him to be brought only on one mission with favourable dialogue, the final one, after which he'll even say that "You (Hawke) were right about me needing to step up and rule Starkhaven". On two missions if you want to bicker with him throughout the quests instead.
If you would manage to sway Sebastian by the end, you'd have one final choice: support him in standing up and demanding answers from Elthina, or asking him to forgive her involvement.
Supporting him on Friendship is the simplest, but supporting him on Rivalry ends up in Sebastian switching to Friendship, like with Merrill reversing her Friendship in Mirror Image if you don't give her the Arulin'Holm. This ends up in a calmly voiced, but very angry Sebastian Vael, pure venom in his words, listing how Elthina has abused his trust and his people by using faith in the Chantry, and manipulating a Prince of a sovereign nation for her own means. If you supported him on Rivalry, he'll have additional lines on how you've challenged him to see problems with Chantry and Templar order, as well as to come back to Starkhaven, and outright thank you right in front of Elthina, whose eyes will throw daggers in your direction. At the end of the speech, Sebastian will actually start removing pieces of his armour, them clattering to the floor at Elthina's feet, and walk out alongside you out of the Kirkwall chantry.
However, if you ask him to forgive Elthina, he'll have the biggest rivalry (+30) jump in the game if you aren't in a Friendship, and will briefly lash out at you, saying that complacency with his devotion to the Chantry is what got him and his people into this mess. On Rivalry, it's worse. Instead of a calm but angry and vicious reprimand of Elthina's actions, Sebastian will SCREAM at her, throw evidence in her face, and then scream at you on Rivalry for good measure, about how you can't simply forgive someone who would seek ruin his city, and is actively ruining Kirkwall. How he was blind to Elthina's actions, but sees now that blood magic isn't the rot at the city's heart that is dividing the Circle and Templar order, it's Chantry politicians like Elthina. And instead of armour pieces clattering to the ground, they're thrown at the feet of the Andraste statue, while Sebastian outright declares that if Elthina doesn't cease machinations in Starkhaven, he'll rage war against her, specifically, and everyone who would support her. Then, he storms out, alone.
You can insert either a "there's nothing to talk about" with Elthina afterwards in both endings of this form, or promises of Hawke "never holding a position in this city aside from carrying the Amell name".
After that, you can find Sebastian, clad in a new armour (simple, reminiscent of what Alistair wears in his introduction scene in DAO, only with the Starkhaven symbol emblazoned on an archer chest piece), with a box in his arms, on the steps out of Hightown into Lowtown. He jokes about how his whole life in Kirkwall can, at the same time, be put into a small box like this one, and be something world encompassing. After a dialogue, where he tells you he is going to live in a small hovel in Lowtown, since he doesn't want to even see the chantry building, or talk with nobles who'd gladly eat him and people of Starkhaven alive, until the moment Kirkwall unrest is over, since he wants stability for you and your city as well. Also, he'd rather spend money on his people and those in need, not himself.
If romanced, or with certain persuasion options, you can invite him to live with you. You can still try to invite him with a couple of options, but he'll deny them for various reasons. After that, he'd live near the market; or, if you managed to convince him, in Hawke's mansion.
If in a romance, there's a hot makeout scene in the library which fades to black implying a proper sex scene. If not, he'll have amusing additional scenes with other companions, especially other love interests, with a bit of hostility from Isabela and Anders, and a lot of genuine fun from Fenris and Merrill.
When you talk with him alone (at either Lowtown hovel or at home in the Library), Sebastian discusses, on Friendship, how he is still Andrastian, even if Chantry failed him and his, or on Rivalry how he feels that blind devotion blinded him to Chantry mistakes.
Banter between party members also changes, with one dialogue from Merrill implying that Sebastian is now helping refugees and the poor, Fenris talking about his efforts in making an organisation for former templars/chantry members expelled for one reason or another, Anders being surprised at a late night visit where Sebastian covered in blood (not his) brought him herbs and potion flasks as a peace offering, et cetera. There's still tension over Sebastian belief in the Chant and Andraste, but it's not anymore about him having to perform for the Chantry and his public image.
If you don't complete the quest with this ending, Sebastian Vael still demands Anders to be executed, or he'll wage war. But if you do... he confesses that Anders has asked him to warn as many people in Lowtown and Darktown not to come to the Hightown and chantry, but assumed this would be because of Meredith and Orsino outright fighting in front of Elthina, not this... murder.
He will, however, draw his bow and point an arrow at Anders, saying that this was not the answer to help his cause, and Anders needs to pay now. Hawke can allow him to do that, or step in.
In a so-so relationship, if you choose anything else but "I will execute him myself" or relent to Sebastian's demand and let him shoot Anders? Vael will spit at your feet and leave your party and the conflict, resulting in a very similar ending to his character as in the original DA2, just less anti-mage and pro-Chantry.
However, in a Friendship or Rivalry, it's very easy to convince him to still stay at your side and see it through. With his unknowing help, many innocents of Kirkwall were saved, and now he has to stick around to help as well, and to either see Anders pay for his crimes with work and healing, not redemption through martyr-like murder, or to understand that this, inadvertently, would be every city across Southern Thedas, including Starkhaven, if Chantry dogma supported by Templars will continue murder, physical and emotional, of mages. He'll have additional dialogue depending on whether you're a mage Hawke, or if Bethany died/is in Circle.
In Romance, Sebastian will lower his bow immediately as Hawke steps between. You'll have to mess up really badly in dialogue for him to storm out.
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since seeing a few posts about TPB and how it treats firestar’s kittypet origins as a flaw he needs to overcome, wouldnt it be amazing if the “fire alone” prophecy was failed in some way? yes, short term, he DID save the clan, but in all the arcs following this?
(looong post under cut)
yeah he’s a decent guy, but his clan immediately turns back to the status quo. sure, lionclan united to defeat tigerclan, but the relationship between wind and thunder deteriorates as soon as windclan rebellion starts. cats within his own clan, who witnessed the impact his very not-in-accordance-to-the-code actions had on defeating tigerstar. aka ONE OF THE BIGGEST TYRANTS IN RECENT CLAN MEMORY. but oh actually everyone dislikes kittypets still in tnp. dustpelt/mousefur especially love to bring up their distaste with the state of thunderclan (”too mixed”). even brambleclaw, his own apprentice, judges cats like daisy based on the fact that she isnt clanborn. it reads as thunderclan respecting firestar in spite of where he came from, instead of them appreciating a major part of his identity that they wouldnt let him forget just a few books ago? you know? getting over their biases and learning to respect others outside the clan?
were these xenophobic ideas not utilized by tigerstar to climb maim and torture not just cats outside the code, but those who dedicated their lives to it? is that...not a sign for introspection??
and on a similar note: the books really want us to know that the only reason scourge was defeated was because he didnt believe in god, which is a really weird conclusion to end this arc on. we see fireheart constantly questioning the code and using his better judgement (most of the time anyway) to do what is the morally righteous thing to do. his unique outlook on clan culture saved a lot of lives. he wanted desperately to find belonging in thunderclan, but often sacrified his safety + position to save lives. but no actually the moral we’re supposed to take is “firestar became leader and proved that his soft kittypet roots couldn’t hold him down!!!” i dont know if him being born in thunderclan wouldve changed his very justice-driven personality, but maybe not being brainwashed from infancy played a factor in many of his choices in TPB.
so with these moments where firestar starts to show some of his conditioning crack through (ex: feeling horrified at the idea of cloudpaw not believing in starclan--and wanting to SHOCK him into being a believer; etc etc), is genuinely an engaging character flaw...that should be treated as a flaw. all of these standards of what a “true warrior” should be--constantly being crammed into his head from a pretty young age; against his own sense of personal identity and moral compass. does he WANT to be seen as a true warrior? does he want away with all of these redundant rules? does he want to redefine what that even means?
even in FQ he is pretty pissed to hear bluestar trying to justify an ENTIRE BRANCH OF THEIR CULTURE being axed off because no one was willing to spare territory. while that book has other issues, its still nice to see glimpses of that characterization i like slipping through. if it was an intentional internal conflict, you can take it even further.
this is why i like to imagine that firestar’s prophecy came from whatever ancient beings sent down the po3 prophecy (i believe in oots they downright confirmed that the ancients likely sent starclan/the tribe of endless hunting the po3 prophecy decades before even mapleshade’s time). firestar may have served as the short term solution, maybe as a way to get set up the three in thunderclan. im 90% their prophecy outdates his, anyway. what was the intent of this prophecy, truly?
was he meant to save the clan(s) from a few one and done baddies, or was something more long-term intended. if so...did he fail???
how does firestar cope with this? does he reflect? he knows about the po3 prophecy--what if he were to learn of the manipulation his kids went through by the forces he was taught to worship? ik canon firestar doesnt rlly react to the secret reveal post po3, but...in a better series...would he stand for it? how could he react, knowing that starclan targeted his very bloodline for a prophecy far older than the clans themselves?
in a different world, would bluestar had even accepted him had it not been for the prophecy?? where would he be then? how would he fare with the knowledge that many cats he idolized when he was younger--cats he grieved for, were roped into perpetuating the unhealthy cycle of reliance both starclan and the living clans have for each other?
......is starclan even the source of the fire alone prophecy??? if not them, then who was??>?? how far did this go?? how far is starclan willing to go to get their desired outcome?
give me existential firestar, PLEASE
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I WAS MINDING MY DAMN BUSINESS LISTENING TO ONE OF MY FAV SONGS AND THE BUS OF CODE PHIL RAN INTO ME AND DESTROYED MY LIFE anyway which witch by florence + the machine (best artist ever) oh my god is literally him in the worst way possible the pain the agony (also if u don't want anymore song recs idm^^ ik I've left quite a bit in the askbox but I can slow down if needed :] )
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And it's my whole heart
Weighed and measured inside
And it's an old scar
Trying to bleach it out
And it's my whole heart
Deemed and delivered a crime
I'm on trial, waiting 'til the beat comes out
I'm on trial, waiting 'til the beat comes out
Who's a heretic now?
Am I making sense?
How can you make it stick?
Waiting 'til the beat comes out
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this verse radiates energy from the realization he has of his history with the federation combined with them realizing that he's figured them out and need to make quick work of him in order to keep him in line. not only messing with him physically in experiments but also mentally in making sure to break him down and making him look crazy in order to decrease his threat levels towards any future acts they may commit against the people of the island. also the 'deemed and delivered a crime' can also associate with the brief period of certain members of the island learning about phils federation lineage and creating contingency plans behind his back in case he goes rogue to attack them. (of course he does but not willingly ;-;)
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I'm not beat up by this yet
You can't tell me to regret
Been in the dark since the day we met
Fire, help me to forget
And it's my whole heart
While tried and tested, it's mine
And it's my whole heart
Trying to reach it out
And it's my whole heart
Burned but not buried this time
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oh this part verrrrry specifically is what made everything click right in my mind for this au- especially when thinking about his friendship with etoiles. when I hear this section, I got reminded of the 'repairs' the federation forces onto phil with every trip, how everytime they continue and continue to crack him more and more and shatter him into pieces but he keeps getting. back. up. no matter what they do to him, at the end it's etoiles who's there to keep reminding him that he is still his own person, at his core he is whole and the federation can't take away who he is for long. everytime the federation fucks him up and tries to make it seem as if nothing had happened with the memory wipes of said experiments, this time,, phil has people alongside him to help him remember who he is. the repetition of 'and it's my whole heart' is so codebreakers in this au with it being phil repeating the mantras etoiles has instilled in his mind that he's still his own person and he is still good despite all the damage the federation not only inflicts on him but attends to inflict onto others. it's very good that many of the island members he surrounds himself with are powerful enough to make sure he isn't hurting others physically. mentally though, seeing a good friend lose himself and have to constantly remind himself of who he is can be taxing on the mind.
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Chained and shackled, oh
All that gravel, oh
It's a pity, oh
Never to return
But I never learn
It's a pity, oh
(x2)
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the repeating outro reminds me very specifically of the conditioning training the federation instilled in phils head. acknowledging the metaphorical weights they placed upon him to keep him shackled to them and the island- not only when referring to him unconsciously returning to them in times of enhanced stress and post-acts of rule breaking, but in the clips of his wings that leave him physically immobile when in the world of the skies that he so desperately wants to go back too
AAAAAAAAAAA so many florence songs r him rn it literally inspired me to make a q!phil playlist bc of it and the brain is braininggggggg. also wow with having like 3 song asks shoved in here im really living up to the disc anon name LMAOOOOOO - 💿
Can I just say I am absolutely in love with how you connect lyrics to things and explain them and word everything??? Because HELLO????
ADDING THIS TO THE PLAYLIST POST AS SOON AS I GET DONE WRITING THIS RESPONSE
Honestly the overall song gives me kind of.. angry vibes?? As in connecting it to the code au, it feels like a song that connects to Phils anger towards the Federation that‘s fueled by his close friends, but especially so by Etoiles who has been there for him as much as possible. Repeatingly helping him back up no matter how many times he‘s forced back down to kneel, to submit.
THIS SONG IS SO GOOD WAAAH
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