#fate's meta

[fateandloveentwined]

wuxia, xianxia, and cultivation differences meta

translations: wuxia 武俠, xianxia 仙俠, and cultivation 修真/修仙 (xīuzhēn/xīuxiān)

think i've seen posts on this eons ago, and i'm pretty sure there are tons of these online, but since this has been written up already let's just have another one.

wuxia 武俠

wuxia and xianxia sound similar, but basically for wuxia it is about the pugilistic world (江湖 jiānghú). It is relatively more down-to-earth, and people practice martial arts ("kungfu") in their current life -- they do not do it to become xians (仙) and gods (神) however.

Like Thousand Autumns and Faraway Wanderers/Word of Honor, it has more historical background and ties to the current court and kingdoms, because people are living in the moment and concern themselves with worldly issues.

Martial arts may seem unrealistic, but in view of chinese fantasy it would be considered "real". It consists of fighting moves and internal energy, which they call qi or nèigōng (���功), and at times you see people flying around, climbing hills and jumping across rooftops which is qīnggōng (輕功).

xianxia 仙俠

A level up would be xianxia, where characters in the story cultivate to become xians (and gods, like in the heaven official's blessing). They don't really care about earthly issues here now, because their ambitions lie beyond the current world, and cultivation, getting stronger, and an immortal life are majorly all their goals.

You may not always see them working towards that purpose, such as in mdzs they are considered a lower-xianxia society (低魔), meaning people don't go through all the steps of cultivation and only stay at the stage before the "golden core" stage.

In xianxia, characters still learn basic fighting moves aka. martial arts, but to direct the internal energy they use línglì (灵力), zhēnqì (真气), and fǎlì (法力), all xianxia terms you commonly see. "neigong" is practically nonexistent in this genre. That's why people building up their "neigong" instead of "lingli" are likely never going to be able to cultivate.

cultivation 修真/修仙

A subgenre in the xianxia category would be cultivation. Characters actively go through the stages of cultivation, and likely for the MC, because they are the main character, they successfully become a xian and exit the world at the end of the novel.

There are many stages of cultivation, usually defined at the beginning of the novel in the synopsis, and a typical example of the different levels would be this:

练气，筑基，金丹，元婴，化神，炼虚，合体，大乘，渡劫

And with a cursory search, an English translation would be something like this, albeit not with all the cultivation ranks identified.

Qi condensation (练气), Foundation establishment (筑基), Core Formation (金丹), Nascent Soul (元婴), and the names after that vary too greatly with translation and fandom so I'll jump straight to Immortal Ascension

extra info: getting into the philosophy of it all

It'd be interesting to note that the word "xiá" (俠) permeates all these genres. This is something akin to the concept of "hero", but not at all also, and I'd love to speak more on this but this post has already gone way longer than I hoped it would be, so perhaps another day.

Regardless, it is interesting to note that wuxia has a greater emphasis on "xia" than xianxia. (some joke that cultivation doesn't have the word "xia" in it, and much of that is because characters have foregone heroism and focused on gaining powers and working towards ascension instead). As a result, wuxia is more confucianism-oriented, though not without its taoism and buddhism influences.

xianxia, on the other hand, is mainly derived from "dào" (道), from taoism, which is another lengthy concept if I ever get to it.

And some may have heard of the "farming" genre, 种田 (zhòngtián). This has to do with golden fingers (mary sues) in imperialistic china, earning a wealth of money, and all that. It has nothing to do with cultivation, alike they sound in english.

that's it for now, hmu if you wish to ask/discuss!

(and apologies for the pinyin translations, hope it's understandable still! formally writing pinyin they are supposed to be two separate words not one.)

[fateandloveentwined]

sorry for spamming op😭 but javert musical brick differences

*iirc for everything

javert Kills fantine interrupting her last moment with valjean (about cosette) in the book. she dies first in valjean's hand in the musical, then after her dead still on the bed javert appears

(not related to javert, but colouring valjean's perception, in the book valjean gets arrested after trial, he Escapes from the holding cell, he gets arrested Again, after serving he escapes Again and is declared dead.) Javert later thinks he found valjean again but is hesitant to apprehend due to hatred for officers in case valjean is an upstanding old man. Probably accentuated by this second arrest valjean is Deadly Fearful of rearrests and has a hundred backup plans to escape.

unlike stars in the musical where javert believes he is abiding by his religion through the law and everything is black and white, book! javert serves the law and his distorted sense of justice. It is only until his Seine suicide scene he starts to discover faith because of Valjean's generosity, and at that newfound discovery of conscience he throws himself into the river (ironically suicide does not align with catholicism. I suspect Hugo didn't even intend it to be redemption, simply a means to the end of the antagonist in which the antagonist can put up with it no more, and takes his life in defeat.)

Okay to give credit to book Javert where it is "due", he writes a note to the police listing covert ways the justice system could be bettered before walking back to the Seine. iirc it gets ridiculed by the force.

I feel like I understand people's blorbofication of Javert because I get why someone would really cling onto a complex (male) antagonist with a traumatic past whose entire life is a lie and who kills himself when he reaches that final moment of realization. It is absolutely tragic, and it is easy and natural to cling onto that, we've all been there. But you need to understand that two things are in motion here: the first one is Javert's individual tragedy, and the second one is the broader system he personifies. He's a symbol. His primary function in the narrative is to personify the hateful, bigoted, cruel, inhumane legal system that intervenes after the fact and crushes all those that society has already put down. He, the incarnation of that bourgeois legal system, delivers the final blow. He finishes off what society started, and he does it with joy. When we say that he killed Fantine, it's not even about Javert the individual per se. It's about the entire system he represents. That system killed Fantine and Javert is its flesh and bones. Fantine was a poor girl that was exploited and let down by society in every single way and when she was herself a victim of actual physical violence, the Law, personified by Javert, instead of protecting her treated her like an animal, dehumanized her, humiliated her. The Law was scandalized that a woman like her dared attack the bourgeoisie. The Law was horrified that such a disgusting creature got medical care because she should just drop dead on her street. The Law rejoiced in tearing down her sole protector. The Law prevented her from getting her child back from the con artists that have been stealing her for years because the Law doesn't care about the crimes committed against marginalized people. That's not its function. Its function is to use its discretionary authority in order to dehumanize and punish people that ended up on the wrong side of the street.

So when you come at me with nonsense that Javert "didn't tEchNIcALLy kill Fatnine", "he was just rude", "he was just bitchy", "he just stole her final happy moments", respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. Javert absolutely killed Fantine. He's not the only one who did but he eagerly and enthusiastically precipitated her execution, and that is the entire point Hugo is trying to make. Your arguments against it are nothing but a mere technicality that stems from the fact that the individual's actions technically do not qualify as manslaughter. It's as if we literally had an individual at court and we were thinking of whether or not to condemn him for manslaughter. It's not about that. It's not about your blorbo and his sadness. Your blorbo has a whole other function in the narrative. You have completely missed the mark of the entire book and you have let your personal emotional attachment for a character prevail over Hugo's main argument about the structural punitive violence that literally kills people. Javert being the product and the embodiment of an entire system that exceeds his individuality does not mean that, as a police officer, he's not responsible for his actions or their consequences. On the contrary, he's precisely entirely responsible for the structural violence committed against Fantine, that's what "embodiment" actually means, that's what we mean when we say that he personifies that system. Absolving Javert of his crimes goes directly against the themes of the book, because while systems operate above individuals by definition, they need those individuals to function. The system needs Javerts. Javerts are everywhere around us, yes even today and it is important to hold them accountable for their crimes. I can't believe I have to explain this tbh.

[pocketgalaxies]

The silver color of the thread begins to fill with more golden light. (requested by @overnighttosunflowers)

[infinitelystrangemachinex]

Jayce and the fallacy of the butterfly effect in Arcane's narrative

If Jayce's symbol is the butterfly, then my theory is that we're going into a full "butterfly effect" narrative in Act 2. Either we'll watch it happen, or we'll only see Jayce come out the other side of it changed by the experience, knowing - or more importantly, THINKING he knows - what to do to change the future. Literally, to "defend tomorrow."

tl;dr: Jayce will encounter the butterfly effect in season 2. Viktor and Mel both foreshadowed this in season 1. I think Jayce will fixate on Viktor and will believe that stopping or changing Viktor either in the past or the present - most likely the present - will mean he can save the future. I believe this will lead to an even worse tragedy and may have the same effect as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ekko's approach to changing the future by sticking closer to the present - considering only tiny increments of time to alter more immediate future outcomes - will be the superior approach. I also think that Jayce attempting to change the future will create the conditions that push Viktor to become the Machine Herald.

One of the most common reactions even the casual viewer had to Arcane season 1 was this: "If [character] had just done this one small thing a little differently, [tragic event] wouldn't have happened!"

Arcane has been called a Greek tragedy for the main reason that because of how well built up the characters' personalities and reasonings are, there's no other way season 1 could have gone. There was no stopping the multiple tragedies that occurred, because with one event leading to another, the chain of seemingly inevitable events goes too far back to identify what one singular event caused everything, what one character made what one decision to put our characters on the terrible paths they walked.

Arcane is about to investigate this idea in its own narrative, and I think that Jayce will be the character to stumble into the flawed idea that you can change one event, or stop one character, and change the future for the better. This is because Jayce struggles with a few very interesting character flaws, one of them being that he believes himself to be the main character, and it is therefore his responsibility to intervene, be a hero, and fix things.

Viktor and Mel both foreshadow Jayce's future encounter with the butterfly effect.

Recall that Viktor said: "There is always a choice."

Jayce sees choices in black and white, believes that he has no other options but to go along with what he's persuaded and pushed into, and acts too boldly with too much power multiple times.

Recall that Mel said: "We can't change what fate has in store for us, but we don't have to face it alone."

Jayce tries to solve big problems on his own, and though he delegates to Enforcers and the like, Jayce relies on his reasoning and his alone to make important decisions if he doesn't simply become persuaded - usually through strong emotions like fear - by other characters. In addition, since Mel is specifically talking about Viktor's plight here, it's worth mentioning that while Jayce did say that he would help Viktor in acts 2 and 3 of season 1, Jayce does wind up leaving Viktor to face his fate alone. When Jayce tries to change that fate in s2 ep1, ep2 shows that only tragedy can come of this as well.

Viktor and Mel's statements here are not contradictory. Viktor makes the point that you can always make a choice. In context, he's literally referring to the classic "secret third option," because given a choice between aggression and passivity, war and surrender, Viktor chooses to defuse the bomb instead. Mel, interestingly, seems to believe that destiny is fixed in a broad sense, and she operates as a politician and diplomat and investor who navigates that line of destiny in the most optimal way possible. In reality, in context, she is referring to the fact that Viktor can't change the way he was born and so he has no way to change his fate and therefore must face it, which is true - she's only missing the information that Viktor actually does have the means to change his illness and his body. Her wisdom still applies however, because he'll have to accept the hand that fate deals him after he makes that choice. Will he face it alone, or not?

There is always a choice, there's even secret third options, because having a fate doesn't mean that you are doomed to make only one possible series of choices. What it does mean is that each choice comes with a hand that fate deals you. It is impossible to know what all of these branching choices and consequences are in advance, and it is just as impossible in hindsight - the branches are too complex and the end outcomes are all equally meaningful, just different. If Arcane season 2 is to be a tragedy, it may show us that each possible outcome is still tragic if you fall for the fallacy of the butterfly effect.

Jayce is counseled by some of the wisest, cleverest characters with the deepest life experiences in Arcane, but he hardly ever takes that counsel to heart. If he does, he still acts on that counsel in flawed ways that have unintended consequences. This will come to a head in season 2.

Viktor and Jayce both have a butterfly following them around in season 1. The butterfly effect refers to one small seemingly insignificant event changing the course of history, and changing that event therefore changes history. Viktor bled over the railing of a Hexgate in season 1:

And Heimerdinger sees what we can only assume is Viktor's blood contaminating (?) the Hexgate in s2 ep3:

This might be the seemingly unimportant "inciting incident" that Jayce (and Heimerdinger and Ekko) settle on as something that should be avoided or erased by changing the past (if they time-travel with Ekko, for example).

I doubt that, if this is what this crew chooses to fixate on, it will be the only event that is considered as something to change. But let's take this and run with it for the sake of discussion.

As silly as it sounds, how do you stop Viktor from allowing his blood to come into contact with the arcane? Stop Viktor's involvement with the Academy entirely? Don't invent Hextech at all? But what if someone else invents Hextech besides Jayce? What if future tragedy befalls Piltover because it didn't invent Hextech?

The possibilities and what-ifs could branch on forever. But because Jayce is who he is, and because his tragedy with Viktor is still raw and recent and frightening, I think Jayce's butterfly effect experience will have to do with Viktor.

My personal prediction is that the timeskip between s2 ep3 and ep4 will be Jayce experiencing a timeline where Viktor, taken over by the Hexcore, brings about an apocalyptic event similar to what Heimerdinger experienced in his past. Either Jayce and co. can't go into the past to change the present, or Heimerdinger and/or Ekko advise strongly against it to avoid a paradox. This will lead to them re-entering the canon Arcane timeline before this apocalypse, but still after the timeskip. Jayce, believing that destroying Viktor and his cult will save the future, and believing that resurrecting Viktor was Jayce's mistake to fix, attacks him. But the consequences don't unfold the way he hopes, because trying to change fate once the cards have already been dealt has led to tragedy before.

The butterfly is a symbol of something other than just the butterfly effect - change, evolution, and rebirth. If the butterfly symbolizes the butterfly effect for Jayce, then I think it has a different meaning for Viktor - the change and rebirth meaning.

I've always found it very interesting that we see a similar-looking butterfly on Progress Day... but made of metal.

Every time Viktor's situation changes, he adapts and evolves. If Jayce attacks him, if his cult is destroyed, if the Hexcore is causing Viktor to decay, if all of these things happen at once - he'll just evolve again, and I think the Machine Herald is the next step. And the Machine Herald will be a triumph for Viktor, but Jayce will believe that he's created something even worse. The resulting feud will be a personal nightmare for both of them.

I think this still allows Viktor to use his own agency to choose to become the Machine Herald (the MH will probably be the "secret third option" that saves Viktor, or there will be a secret third option that ends the feud) while still allowing Jayce to be offended and horrified at whatever the Machine Herald represents or is trying to do in the undercity. Introducing the element of time travel allows Arcane to explore the meta concept of tragedy and fate that season 1 was built on while showing that you can't "solve" a tragedy, because there are other terrible possibilities lurking behind alternate choices. Especially if what you're trying to change is singular people or events and not systems of power.

This is why Ekko's approach with his Z-drive will be superior to Jayce's sweeping attempt at changing the future. Ekko's goal has always been societal change. He creates his own punk society in the undercity, more progressive and successful than anything Vander or Silco ever created, and a better bastion of safety, hope, and progress than what Heimerdinger founded in Piltover. Trying to change systems by going back in time is most likely futile. But taking what Ekko has already built in the Firelights, curing his tree, and fighting for the Firelights' survival bit by bit by optimizing the present with the Z-drive shows that:

It's more worth it to focus on becoming wise (Ekko's mask is an owl) and making choices you won't regret

It's best if you don't face your fate alone (act as a collective and take care of each other)

Consider every option, not just the obvious black and white choices

Maintain and fix what you've already built instead of abandoning it once things get difficult

Adapt as needed if the choices you made lead to dark consequences, and once again, stick together and take care of each other when the bad times do come

That's my Act 2 but, ultimately, my season 2 prediction based on the butterfly symbolism we've already seen. Ekko's involvement is what will give the series the at least partial happy ending that the creators have referred to. I personally don't think that the Viktor/Jayce feud will end quite so well, but maybe, they will still survive.

[linddzz]

Does mage Viktor's reality-hopping and 'only you can show me this' line imply that dozens if not hundreds of other Jayces have done what our Jayce did and end up there on that slope hearing the same thing from him? Did the Viktor that succeeded and lost everything, lost his own Jayce, keep getting to meet new Jayces one by one, allowing himself a small modicum of wistful joy in getting to see Jayce living and breathing again if only for a short time before he sends them back? talk to me here

Not only is it implied, we for sure see at least 8 (if my count is right) times Viktor has saved Jayce as a child, including the current one. You see them flash through and each time, he gave Jayce a different runestone

(gifs by @hextecht)

Since his phrasing was "all timelines, in all possibilities" it's pretty safe speculation that Viktor has been at this for way more than 8 rounds. We don't know if he's tried messing with other points of the timeline or if any other Jayces got as far as the our Jayce did when he reached the center of Wizard Viktor's hellscape (and I made such a distressed noise when the clouds parted and I realized the only beautiful place left, the center of the storm, the oasis, is where Jayce got assimilated).

The general consensus is that this is most likely the first time it worked, because Ekko used the rune Jayce had been given (the "acceleration rune" as Ekko calls it in S2E7) to make the time travel Z-drive that he cranks up to "break reality" levels before chucking it at Viktor's head and knocking that dork off enough for Jayce's "power of love" gamble to actually get through to him.

(I also have the opinion that Wizard Viktor is not going to stop here. He's got nothing but fields of dreamless solitude for him, this IS his project and he's probably going to keep trying to refine the process across timelines until some kinda multiverse cops show up like "dude. Fucking quit it!")

And OH BOY can I sure as hell talk about the way Viktor looks at Jayce over the top of the Jayce he destroyed!!!!

(gif by @glassrunner)

Look at him. LOOK AT HIM. His expression is already wistful and pained as he turns, but you can see him exhale with the breath knocked out of him. his eyelids actually flutter. He softens, he's struck. He looks like he's barely able to keep himself from crying in that moment where he not only looks at Jayce, but lets himself be seen by Jayce in return.

And which is more heartbreaking? That this is the first time Jayce got this far, the first time Viktor had to finally properly look at him after so many tries?

Or has this played out over and over for him? Has he looked over like this time and time again, and every time it takes his breath away? Subjecting himself to this repeatedly, and every. single. time. he's hit with the most classic doomed romance line

(Im holding myself BACK from rambling yet again about how Actually Deranged it is for Wizard Viktor to be doing this but @avelera and I talk about him being a fucked up little guy so much that I need to consider just having a wizard Viktor tag lmaooo but for more Wizard Viktor rambling enjoy

Wizard Viktor doesn't care about saving the world, he's just making sure Jayce and himself are intertwined

How many times has Wizard Viktor had to watch this himbo yeet himself into Pretty Hippy Viktor's cult?

Me giggling and kicking my feet in the air over Wizard Viktor being a control freak egomaniac about Jayce )

[jomeimei421]

Even if TWSA had finished without the world ending, KDJ would have been okay

[zeravmeta]

actually the other fantastic part of goghies interlude is that it's revealed that all of her puns actually come from the 5% van gogh part and it gets filtered through the 95% clytie as a bocchi-esque nervous wreck delivery

listen to me girl im the dead painter in your head you have to make these puns or we'll explode forever

[19burstraat]

hmmm I know we can surmise that kaz & jordie were the iphigenia of the series, in that, whether it's fair or not, they had to be sacrificed for the benefit of everyone else. jordie had to die and kaz had to suffer it and live with it, because if kaz had lain down and died on the barge, it would have had a crazy knock-on effect. inej likely would never have escaped the menagerie, or matthias from hellgate, jesper would probably have fallen foul of debtors or gangs some way or another (he gets at least one beating from enforcers), nina would have been caught up w the dime lions trying to get matthias out of hellgate, and there's even some more tangential ones, like kuwei probably dying at the ice court and marya being stuck at saint hilde.... but I wonder what would have happened to wylan.

kaz had him under dregs protection, so he never suffered the way he did ("kaz is your luck, merchling."); no beatings, etc. without that... well, it's tempting to think that wylan would have just been killed some way or another. and yeah, maybe, but miggson and prior couldn't get him, could they? wylan has that scary glimmer of the biting-animal, kaz-style survivalist in him, and he had a goal; amass enough money to get the hell out of ketterdam and start anew. but how far would wylan have gone to get that money? van eck's letters pushed him into the arms of dregs munitions building. without the perpetual intervention of kaz-- protection, constant jobs even when there were better people for it, good pay-- how quickly would wylan have turned into someone more like kaz? he has a core of decency, but he gets the privilege of keeping that, because kaz helps him to. alone, would he have surrendered it, or been forced to surrender it, just for a chance to survive? I don't think he would have ever willingly given up. it's not an accident that kaz and wylan's first days in ketterdam are so closely paralleled, or that they have a set of similar skills/traits; it's explicitly said that wylan would also be able to count cards and control decks like kaz can, if he wanted to. and after he finds out about his mother, wylan's comforted by the idea of retribution for van eck, that kaz could destroy his father's life. they're a little bit too similar. but kaz is there to take the moral fall, for the most part; all wylan has to do is help him. but without kaz... well. that's another story, isn't it?

[burr-ell]

reminded again about pike being so desperate to bring back percy, guilt-ridden over not being there, that she tried a divine intervention, which if it had succeeded would have tanked the ritual because percy would not have wanted to be brought back that way. and instead when it failed she offered a song in celestial—the same one that the two of them, a faithless man and the chosen of sarenrae, sang to resurrect a little boy who'd been killed in westruun. impulsive grand gestures versus something thoughtful and meaningful. i need to lie down

[winterprince601]

i often think about the irony of the fact that ned probably thought the wall would be one of the safest and most anonymous places for jon to go. he would be far away from anyone who might recognise him or uncover his secret identity in an order that specifies everyone who enters into it let go of all familial ties, treating your past and blood as a theoretically blank slate...

only for the long night to come knocking, and it turns out not only is jon VERY unsafe (as is everyone) but he is in a position where his blood becomes potentially very important. ned sent jon to the wall to hide the fact that he was a prince, only for that to be the very place in need of a promised prince.

[fateandloveentwined]

wuxia and confucianism

Hey. Thought I'd answer the wuxia-confucian question very briefly. I did suggest wuxia being closely knitted to confucianism, but I do understand the other perspective of wuxia being anti-confucian. Quick answer only because I've got little time right now -- might add on to it later!!

confucianism

First the central themes of confucianism:

常 (cháng): Virtues of compassion and courtesy. 仁 (rén)、义 (yì)、礼 (lǐ)、智 (zhì)、信 (xìn)、忠 (zhōng)、孝 (xiào)、悌 (tì) (there are more). These in order in crude translation mean compassion, righteousness, courtesy, wisdom, integrity, loyalty, filial piety, and respect to one's older siblings. These are the main ideas Confucius, the founder of Confucianism, wished to spread through his philosophy.

纲 (gāng): Order. This is about the relationships between people, the filial piety of a child to their parents, the relationship between significant others, between friends and teachers, and expanding outwards in the sphere of influence in our circle of life, the patriotism and loyalty of a liege to his lord.

Understand that Confucius came up with these ideas in a time of war. He lived his life traversing different kingdoms and establishing his prominence by getting emperors to trust him as a consultant and employ his school of ideas. As such, these beliefs are very much centred around creating harmony and order in society, and of course entails the respect of commoners and lieges to their lords (because why else would kings employ his beliefs over other schools of philosophy if not so?).

wuxia

Moving on to the wuxia genre, the 侠 (xiá) in wuxia emphasises righteousness. xia, as people, are itinerants and rebels in the fictitious pugilistic society who tire of the power of the aristocracy and seek to use their own, often unlawful ways, to help others through 锄强扶弱 (chú qiáng fú ruò) -- helping the needy and going against the strong (the morals are debatable but that's me trying to sum up wuxia in 5 minutes off the top of my head rip).

conclusions

So I guess that's enough information for you to form your own conclusions, and here's what I think, at the very least.

Against Confucianism -- Subverting the power pyramid. Many of the heroes/xia's in wuxia are lawless rebels. They aren't good, upstanding citizens of the society. Hell, xia was first popularised from 游侠列传 (yóu xiá liè zhuàn) in the Han dynasty records, talking about how a "xia" went against the officials and helped the commoners in the name of righteousness. This goes against the confucian beliefs of respecting your lord and serving the kingdom.* That's why I can understand why some would consider wuxia going against confucianism.

Align with Confucianism -- Righteousness. Ultimately, however, wuxia is about righteousness and nobility and honour, defined by society and commoners and not by royal blood. These values of etiquette, decorum, and nobility were long ingrained in the hearts of all these chinese characters, from when the courtesy and etiquette rules were defined in the Zhou dynasty, and afterwards, from the Han dynasty on, when emperors heavily employed Confucian beliefs in education and throughout society because it helps in rebuilding a harmonious society.

Confucianism is about compassion and righteousness, the staples permeating and defining chinese culture in the last two thousand years, and it is these values that serve as the central impetus of the xia and wuxia genres. People are born into these values; as such they fight against the injustice they see, and thus engenders the lost xia's of every dynasty.

*And well, even Confucius wasn't that dead set on fealty to lords. Confucian highly venerated loyalty, but when the court is corrupt, they acknowledge insurgence over the mindless following of an emperor. This is a story for another day, one I would have to back up with more quotes and citations, but I hope this answered your questions, or even better, let you form some conclusions of your own :)

Confucian philosophy is only one aspect that has correlations/influences over the "xia" genre, there are many other interesting things to say about Taoism and Buddhism as well (e.g. Jin Yong's wuxia classics have quite a bit of Buddhist values in the characters owing to author preferences), it's definitely worth looking up on these things if you're interested!

initially reblogged under the original meta post on wuxia, xianxia, and cultivation differences, but i realised it was too long and would bury the reply, so please don't mind me creating a new post for this again.

feel free to ask and discuss!!

[beaulesbian]

����☀️ Some thoughts on Zoro & Luffy and their connection to gods and demons☀️🌒

This post started at first with just a few points about Zoro in the context to Asura/ King of Hell but since then it somehow evolved into connecting bits and pieces between Zoro & Luffy parallels again, I just can't help it, sooo...long post ahead.

Wano + Egghead spoilers

I always love remembering this one of the very first scenes where we (and Luffy) first hear about Zoro, and in the context of Zoro being a Pirate Hunter, even described as a demonic beast or as Koby says "demon in human form." None of this discouraged Luffy upon hearing this, on the contrary - he thought that if he sees for himself if Zoro was a good guy, he would be a great addition to his crew, and then went out of his way to seek him out! And only later we got the explanation that Zoro just couldn't find his way back home. "Roaming the seas" meant surviving for him, bounty hunter meant getting by in life with the skills he knew the best - swords, which is kind of sad when you think about it, but all the more interesting that it was Luffy who found him in Shells town,

where Zoro, a nonbeliever of any gods of higher power, was bound to a cross, and the first thing Luffy pointed out was "he's smiling".

I like to think that the smile might have been one of the first signs important enough for Luffy to choose someone for his crew - not only the kindness that followed when Luffy saw Zoro eating the dirty rice ball, but the smile that's by itself also very connected to Luffy himself:

After that first fight they won together, already reading each other so well, Zoro was the first one to call Luffy his captain (and later at Baratie also the first one to call him the future Pirate King!). He was someone who already fully believed in Luffy's future of reaching his dream without questioning it, perphaps because their drive towards their goals and dreams was very similar. And Luffy was the one who freed Zoro and let him have his swords - his biggest treasures - and gave him back the possibility to go into the world to actually follow his dream!

"One day, he'll show up and take you out under the sun, to the freedom of the sea!" - ch. 1095, Buccaneers about Sun God Nika (flashback with Kuma)

Fast forward to Wano - it's incredible how entangled their stories are with belief in always striving to do better/be stronger/try again next time for Luffy, someone who doesn't care what others think - he just needs to do what he wants and to be free - only for him to awaken his Devil Fruit and his God Nika powers; and for Zoro (a non-believer/apatheist) with how determined he was to successfully wield Enma so he could defeat King the Wildfire even to the lengths of becoming the King of Hell if that was what needed to be done to get Luffy one more step towards being the Pirate King.

Which brings me back to Demon Asura Zoro and where we saw this form throughout the manga:

This whole post started at first as a parallel to my other post about Zoro not really being shown to react to Luffy's Gear 5 (yet, as of chapter 1109), and I kept thinking about Zoro's Asura technique and how he used it so far only three (!!!) times, and there weren't many reactions from the strawhat crew either.

First one was during the Enies Lobby against Kaku, who even calls that vision 'demon-god' (ch. 417). If I remember Zoro was there by himself with Kaku, his crew each fighting other opponents elswhere:

The second time was during their first visit to Sabaody Archipelago, ch. 510, where it was the whole crew against the Pacifistas. The only bigger reactions were Brook and Chopper ("So many Zoros!!" - how cute!)

Luffy went right after Zoro with his last attack against the Pacifistas, so he's either seen Zoro's attack or it just wasn't the time or place to react, which, fair.

and then, third and last time so far Zoro went into his Asura form, it was up against Kaido, ch. 1010, when Luffy was out of it and Kaido was threatening how he would end Luffy in various ways.. which only angered Zoro more ("That's my captain!" - yeah, tell him, Zoro!)

All of these three times we've seen Asura, it was against few of the most dangerous opponents and all three times Zoro had his bandana on, being serious about it. All three of these times he knew his whole crew was fighting for their lives too and were in very real danger. Enies Lobby really changed the tone of the next few arcs with how serious things were about to go; Sabaody was just after Thriller Bark with Zoro being still injured and he knew what Kuma/Pacifistas were capable of - there was real fear and despair. And of course, on Wano against Kaido,. he saw how much damage Luffy took, Zoro could only hope to put more wounds on Kaido to count in their favor.

Zoro knew he had one last attack to try and make some difference in this fight - and this was before his fight with King, so he wasn't fully in sync with Enma yet, but it was good enough to unlock Asura technique - with something more to it.

Apparently along with his haki - not just the armament or observation haki, but the supreme king haki, as Kaido himself is shocked to find out. Zoro wasn't even consciously aware of having/using this haki.

Even the wiki mentions this as Zoro adding the supreme king haki to his Asura attack to strenghten it, or possibly was only able to unlock this technique because of having supreme king haki - meaning he was possibly using it even in both of those pre-time skip situations mentioned above.

The supreme king haki is something people can't learn, but are born with, meaning Zoro probably didn't know until Wano (and still wasn't sure what he did), but possibly learnt to use it instinctively - very much like Luffy on Amazon Lily.)

I already made a post that touched a bit on King of hell Zoro, and other parts around Asura (clearly, i'm never done thinking about that), with a very big possibility/hints that he could come from lineage of people of the D. (asura - enemies of gods - people of D.) - especially if it's connected to supreme king haki as inherited ability (although that isn't confirmed in the manga, as far as I understood).

This brings me to Zoro's family, and specifically Ryuma.

Wano was a great arc that connected things from Thriller Bark -with Zoro returning the legendary sword Shusui back to Ryuma's grave where it belonged.

There was an interesting panel at the end of Wano, where people were celebrating Luffy's victory over Kaido, but were given the name Joyboy as their savior - possibly Momonosuke's doing as Luffy told him not to mention him by name because Luffy didn't want to be a hero.

And in this panel, the peple are comparing this feat of victory to the legendary "God of the Blade" - which is another title for Ryuma.

It's so curious how Zoro is connected to Ryuma, even through span of many centuries and countries across, but still there is that connection, on top of actually fighting Ryuma's zombie on Thriller Bark, and Zoro isn't even aware of it. We only know about it from the SBS corner of Oda mentioning Zoro's family. (SBS corner in vol. 105. Ryuma wasn't mentioned there precisely, but the name Shimotsuki being of Zoro's grandmother and others from Wano, it makes sense they're Ryuma's descendants):

Side note: There's also something really beautiful of how the Shimotsuki line was passed down on Zoro from his grandmother - and his promise he cherishes since childhood being tied to Kuina, someone who wanted to be the greatest swords(wo)man - and therefore Zoro carrying Wado and that dream and promise for her.

Zoro & Luffy

Now to tie it all back to parallels with Zoro and Luffy - I love that there are always these small moment in how similar these two are - in their honest words and actions, in them believing in one another and believing even more in reaching their dreams, their crew and their strengths. In both being so directionally clueless and sometimes outright stupid, yet in certain situations (more so in battles and fights), they are the ones sometimes smartest and most strategic.

Then there's these other similarities between them: how much they don't care about what's told about them or -be it by luck or fate- how things work out in their favor in the end, usually. How both of them don't wish to be heroes, because heroes had to share (food and sake).

How there's that fact that Zoro doesn't know the full context of his powers, especially with his supreme king haki- or that he doesn't want to know the truth or put a name to that ability, because he fights with his swords and doesn't need to put belief of any other powers beside his own strength. (Or maybe he will soon learn how to use it to his (and his crew's) benefit.)

and Luffy, who doesn't know probably anything about Nika- and most likely wouldn't care much about them beside the scope of his new powers. The whole meaning of being something like "sun god" for others didn't register with him yet, and it might never be that important to him personally. Time after time, people around him mention luck or fate, or how people of the D. are the enemies of the Gods - enemies of the celestial dragons, but those don't really matter to Luffy because it doesn't change why he fights and why he needs himself and others to be free and achieve his dream.

How Zoro and Ryuma could be parallels to Luffy and Joyboy - one living in the present, reminiscent of those that lived centuries ago - something about the history always repeating.

When Zoro got to fight Ryuma on Thriller Bark, or even Hyogoro compares him to Shimotsuki Ushimaru (Zoro's great uncle),

and how Zunesha was waiting for Joyboy, how Roger and Oden found messages from Joyboy of his promises to return.

The parallels between sun god Nika and demon god/king Asura are so interesting in their opposites yet similarities. There's still so much we don't know about Nika or Joyboy, but Luffy himself isn't just the perfect picture of responsibility or justice. He's free, and that's the most important for him. He now has the power to do what he really wants to do with his powers, he unlocked that new potential to make it even more fun and even more dangerous against his enemies.

Even if Zoro's saying he doesn't believe in higher powers he embraces the powers that unlocked with Enma and getting him the title of King of Hell, he knows it would be the things that would keep him fighting for another minute, hour, day when it becomes necessary to protect Luffy and their crew.

Zoro may not believe in any gods but he believes in Luffy with all his being.

And in the similar vein, Luffy is the one who always believed in Zoro's strength and capability to protect the rest of their crew when it was necessary, times after time.

It's feels like it's not at all a coincidence that Luffy's whole crew is full of otherness and beings connected to hell/monsters/demons more than anything divine - because lot of the gods in One Piece are mentioned in context of standing above others and above common people - it's a bit flipped of what's good or not, or even more it's never clear because that's life, and those people are just claiming some titles. Eneru being the first example of a "god" the Straw Hats encountered, celestial dragons being called Gods, the Gorosei having each titles of "Godhead" - it's no wonder that Luffy's crew all fights for freedom and reaching whatever each of them needs to achive as their dream,

and includes: a dead man but living skeleton Brook; a demon child Nico Robin; Chopper "I don't mind being a monster for Luffy.'"; Sanji with all his hell fire and "diable" kicks and attacks, along with his non human strength and other abilities; Nami wielding the powers similar to Eneru without the need of both Devil Fruit or being called a goddess, and bringing down lightning on anyone who threatens her crew; Usopp and his powers of nature and plants sprouting new life and strengths from long distance; Jimbei - fishman and former Sun Pirate and also "First son of the Sea"; Franky the more cyborg than a man; and of course, Roronoa "I might as well become the King of Hell" Zoro.

It's not all so black and white, good or bad. Luffy is still everything that makes him Luffy - he's honest and selfish in his selflesness, kind and brave and stubborn, and always knows that Zoro (and his whole crew) has his back so he doesn't have to hold back.

And Zoro is still Zoro despite being able to wield some newer haki powers he's slowly discovering now. He's still getting lost and still is his stubborn self that puts the crew and Luffy above himself, and would follow Luffy into hell if that was needed.

Luffy and Zoro are "just" captain and his first mate, always throughout the story since the beginning. Orphans with such interestingly woven past and relationships around them, who grew up with a big dream they had to go and achieve it no matter what, and found someone just as honest, kind, powerful and trustworthy as they were. But there's that deep and fierce devotion that always borderlines on something beyond just good. They're pirates - because that means being free.

They can be chaotic and powerful, and find something divine in the loyalty of the demonic powers, and something hellish in the god-like entity bringing freedom.

It feels like something Roger said to Rayleigh when they first met - That it was a fated meeting.

[greenqueenhightower]

Alicent goes to Rhaenyra to avoid shedding any blood, and the Rhaenyra she knew, the one she saw in the sept in 2x03 would have acceded to that. This new Rhaenyra, having amassed great power and now relishing in her newfound strength, does not cower at the thought of spilling Aegon's blood. It is Rhaenyra who believes she can have "all she wants" now that she imagines herself indestructible. Having lost all faith in the green cause, the Seven, and her expectations as Queen, Alicent becomes disillusioned with Rhaenyra herself. Rhaenyra can no longer talk of peace. Alicent's quest to find it as she preserves her and her children's lives fails. She's once again left alone to tread this difficult path of reconciling her duty to herself, her family, and the realm.

"A true Queen counts the cost to her people."

Alicent still is that true Queen, The Queen Who Ever Was, and she offers Rhaenyra the only way out, with the least possible casualties. But even in service to herself and her freedom, Alicent again shows altruism and is called to pay the highest price possible. She's destined to never be completely free and at peace, her inner torment always eating her soul as she drifts further away from the unattainable dream.

[charmwasjess]

Strap in for the Soresu form III Obi-Wan lightsaber post. This is gonna be a sad one, girlies. We’re getting into Obi-Wan’s Fucking Trauma. 

Qui-Gon’s death changed literally everything about Obi-Wan’s life, right down to the lightsaber form. Still a Padawan himself, he had to watch as an extinct monster from his nightmares* utterly took apart the form he’d learned since he was a child, and then, to complete the destruction, slaughtered the teacher who’d taught him the form and raised him. The devastation of Qui-Gon’s actual death had to be the last in a cascading series of horrors that started with the gut-sinking realization that Qui-Gon was losing. And if all of that weren’t enough, Obi-Wan also loses his own lightsaber in the same duel, a psychological blow to his personhood which we don’t have to guess at the significance of. Obi-Wan tells us the cost of it himself in AotC: this weapon is your life. 

The Duel of the Fates on a sheer physical level is a devastating thing to consider. It’s a grueling, full out running battle, the likes of which we don’t see elsewhere in the saga. The beauty (and pounding musical score) of the fight distracts from the sheer brutality of it. Maul is physically attacking them at every turn; he manages to kick Qui-Gon hard enough to knock all 6’3 of him off his feet; he dumps Obi-Wan into a fall that seems to be several stories high. We don’t see Obi-Wan get back up off the floor with Qui-Gon’s body at the end of the duel, and I’d be surprised if he was physically able to even stand again so after the adrenaline faded and the soreness and exhaustion took over. He just been whirled in a lightsaber blender. 

I can’t imagine how hard it was for him to pick up a lightsaber again after the trauma of that battle - much less, a new, unfamiliar one, not the kyber crystal that had been his since he was a child. The new canon’s emphasis on the spiritual relationship between a Jedi and their crystal makes this detail even more excruciating. The Ataru form itself must have felt broken and unusable. How can you put your trust in a form once you watched it be broken so ruthlessly?

And this is where Obi-Wan is so endlessly beautiful as a character. He goes through this horrifying experience of violent unmaking, and instead of avoiding lightsabers as an understandable trauma response, or picking up an overwhelming power and dominance form like V, he remakes himself into a master of Soresu: a form of simple, complete defense. He doesn’t attempt to become a weapon of attack like Maul did to disintegrate Ataru; he makes himself invincible, untouchable, with a perfect defense. Soresu works the pieces that fell apart for the Jedi in the Duel of the Fates to an advantage. It is a form of ultimate endurance, of playing out your opponent and staying up in a fight until the attacker is exhausted or angry. It preserves and it lasts. It is philosophical. It is considered. It lacks the showy flash of Makashi or Ataru and returns to the basics, even working in some of that battlefield meditation that Qui-Gon so believed in. And in that simple economy, it’s gorgeous and effective. 

I have to wonder: is Soresu, on some level, a form of kinetic self-soothing for a person who faced an incredibly traumatic battle at a young age? Does Obi-Wan use it that way?

All of this is perfectly in keeping with the themes of the character. Obi-Wan’s story remains about life, about hope, about survival. The word he uses to describe the Jedi to Luke in the OT is important to me. “Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice.” Guardians. And what better lightsaber approach for a person who sees his role as one of protection than a form whose signature move is called “The Circle of Shelter?”

*Maul, of course, is a tragedy in his own right, but that’s a different post. 

[kuroshika]

gifs from @existingcharactersdiehorribly // poetry by me

[makeste]

BnHA Chapter 424: Detroit Tears

Previously on BnHA: You know what, fandom is way too heated about this still so we’re just going to leave that be that for now and not get involved. I have some conflicted feelings about it, but this is not the place or time. This is a happy post.

Today on BnHA: Oh right, Horikoshi still owns the rights to my soul. And I’ve just been reminded of why I willingly signed them over to him so freely.

Quick heads up that this isn’t going to be my usual style of chapter reaction post, in that it’s really just going to be a ton of rambling about That One Scene. Partly because I’m only halfway caught up with stuff, but mostly because tbh, this is the only thing that matters to me right at this moment.

Also this is your friendly neighborhood spoiler warning that I’m posting about a chapter which hasn’t officially been released yet! So proceed at your own discretion. This reaction is based on @pikahlua’s excellent spoiler translation writeup here. I’ve officially lost all of my fucks about spoilers and it’s extremely liberating.

I’m glad that Kacchan’s arm isn’t just magically better and that he’s never going to be 100% again. and also that the doctor mentions him needing to rest his heart as well. because I did feel like there needed to be at least a few lasting consequences from him LITERALLY DYING AND UNDERGOING OPEN-HEART SURGERY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLEFIELD. but I’m also glad they established that it wasn’t career-ending or anything. he’ll probably have some chronic pain and occasionally aggravate his old injuries while fighting, all of which is great for angst purposes. but it was good to see him being calmly accepting of that while also being determined to put the work in to rehab it as much as possible.

also enjoyed the doctor summing up Kacchan’s highly improbable main character resurrection and subsequent antics as basically being some wild bullshit that nobody can explain. lampshaded the shit out of it. “I don’t really understand” lol. nobody understands. in truth it’s that his secondary quirk is bending reality to his will in order to kick ass.

moving on to the main event now! so Kacchan and Izuku’s reunion was obviously the highlight of this chapter and of my life, probably. I’m not gonna sit here and pretend like it wasn’t. y’all know how it is.

what really made this scene for me was Kacchan being more upset at Izuku’s loss than Izuku himself. all those callbacks and all that guilt. that careful selection of flashback panels. the fact that Kacchan’s past bullying of the quirkless Izuku wasn’t glossed over or forgotten, and in fact is the emotional core that fuels Kacchan’s reaction here. Horikoshi didn't have to cut that deep, but he knows what he's about.

and then the crying. I need to write a lot of words about this right the fuck now. first off, having Kacchan just flat out sob while Izuku for once is the calm one (at least until All Might goes in for the emotional kill later on), is such a beautiful reversal and really shows how far they’ve come. even better is that none of it was even remotely out of character. I’m always appreciative when an author can produce top tier emotional hurt/comfort like this and have it feel earned and authentic rather than forced. well done.

also, “Na--cchan!!” fuck yeah Izuku. we’ll never let him live this down. (but also, him later trying to reconcile his forever-tough image of Kacchan with the crying, hiccupping version standing in front of him, by blaming it on Kacchan’s weakened physical state... oh, Izuku.)

also the fact that Kacchan so easily reverts to this smol crying boy even after defeating the world’s greatest evil pretty much activated every protective instinct that I have. he’s seventeen. he’s practically a man now. he’s objectively one of the strongest and toughest people in the entire world. and yet his eyes still go so wide and his face is still so young and Horikoshi still draws him so tiny and vulnerable whenever he’s like this. goddamn gets me EVERY single time. let’s be real, it’s been this way ever since the “you looked like you needed saving” scene back in the literal first chapter. just, omg. he’s still just a kid and he’s too small to contain all these feelings SOMEONE HELP HIM.

anyway so NEEDLESS TO SAY, Kacchan full on mourning in between sobs because he wanted to keep being rivals with Izuku cut me to my core. I cried too, goddammit. because in Katsuki’s mind it’s like. he wasted a dozen years of potential friendship by being a giant asshole. and they were only able to start getting things back on track less than a year ago. and that was probably the best year of both of their lives. and that rivalry meant so much to both of them. pursuing their dreams together as equals. and he wanted it to continue!! he missed out on so much, and it was his own damn fault, and now it’s all being taken away again maybe!!

and I think it’s especially devastating to Katsuki because he was trying so hard to make up for how he treated Izuku, and then this comes along and now he’s worried it was all for nothing. he’s scared that Izuku will maybe have to quit being a hero. (we know that won’t happen, obviously, but Katsuki is living this and not just reading it. he’s never met narrator!Deku and doesn’t have the benefit of all that foreshadowing and stuff.) but even more than that, I think he’s scared that it will undo all of their progress toward mending their relationship. not because Katsuki thinks any less of Izuku now, quirk or no quirk; but because of how Izuku might feel about being quirkless again, and because of the memories it might bring flooding back to the surface. I don’t think Katsuki fully believes that Izuku has forgiven him. so that’s a major fear potentially rearing its ugly head once more now.

and of course, he’s also just sad and upset on Izuku’s behalf, because he knows Izuku is sad about it too, even if he’ll never show it and will just downplay it because of his selfless nature. it’s a major loss, and one deserving of tears being shed, even if Izuku won’t shed any of his.

so yeah. it’s a lot. in Katsuki’s mind it’s the potential loss of a partner (if Izuku quits heroics), and a friend (if Izuku does cool toward Katsuki as a result of being quirkless again), and a dream (of them reaching the highest heights together), and his friend’s dream. so it makes perfect sense that all of that would overwhelm him. all of this is stuff that’s broken him down on past occasions as well.

so anyway it’s going be very cathartic when all those fears prove to be unfounded (because they better be unfounded lol). but in the meantime it’s a very moving reminder of how much he really does care and how far the both of them have come.

also Horikoshi really couldn’t resist giving Nobu one last chance to destroy everyone when this scene rolls up in the anime. that’s so reckless of him. there will be no survivors.

All Might telling both of them they’d become the greatest heroes was also the perfect chef’s kiss moment on top of everything else. we already knew it, of course. but it was good to hear him say it. and they needed him to say it. they needed and deserved to hear it.

and I really love that the qualities he specifically praised them for were the same things that each of them had struggled with the most in their respective journeys. he tells Izuku, who had such a difficult time learning how to tell the world “I am here!!”, that he inspires everyone and has become everyone’s hero. and he reminds Katsuki, who struggled with learning how to save people, and has especially struggled with his guilt over what happened to All Might at Kamino, that he saved All Might’s life and is the reason he’s able to still be there with them. both of them just really needed to hear that acknowledgement and encouragement, and it was such a powerful passing of the torch moment. All Might gets so much shit from the fandom, but he really is a phenomenal mentor when he’s in the zone, and I’ll die on that hill.

also a nice touch keeping the focus of those panels on the two boys and their reactions. even though I would have liked to see All Might’s face when he thanked them at the end, it definitely felt deliberate. this is their moment. their soft little tearful smiles afterwards punted my heart off a cliff and then picked it up and held it gently.

lastly, let it be known that I’m still convinced Katsuki has OFA (All Might vestige explanation when??), and it’s not lost on me that that would be a mighty convenient way for Izuku to potentially still go on a-quirkin’ in the end, if that’s how Horikoshi wants to play it. I'm just saying.

also before I forget, just a quick shoutout to Horikoshi for FINALLY showing all three members of the Bakufam in a scene together in which they finally managed to not be completely dysfunctional lol. my deepest darkest BnHA secret is that Mitsuki is secretly super high up on my list of favorite characters. and she was great in this chapter, and I love how she was just “WHAT THE FUCK” aghast at Katsuki using his main character powers to continuously ignore his injuries. and then she and Masaru kind of silently agreeing to step outside the room and let the boys and All Might have their moment. while still secretly listening in. because you know they were. good for them.

lastly for reals, I just want you all to remember that as great as this chapter was, the one thing that it was STILL missing which we have STILL not gotten is a HUG. we demand HUGS. I’m not leaving this manga till I get a bkdk hug goddammit. I will stay here all night if I have to.