#zerav meta

[zeravmeta]

haha. babel ending with theresa wiping away doctors memories to absolve them from the past and allow them to live for themselves and their dreams instead of carrying on the promise of a long dead civilization and chapter 14 ending with doctor defeating theresa to absolve her of the responsibility of the king of sarkaz and letting her and all the tragedies of the sarkaz she carried with her finally rest. hahaha. originum was a miracle and a dream that could have allowed them to live within a gilded cage forever and both doctor and theresa chose to fight for a hard earned reality because the goal of originum would only disrespect the tragedies that preceded it. hahaha. babels voyage had long ended and it was time to let it rest and on that endless field they held each other's hands one last time to say a long overdue goodbye because you cant go towards the future if you stay in the past but you also cant forfeit the past and the tragedies and fighting it took for that hard earned future. ha. until all of terra can fall into a peaceful slumber at night. hhha. haa. h

[vriskasapotheosis]

I havent really talked about it but i do absolutely feel for the beta kids all just. realizing the full scope of what their conflict actually means and how each of them are growing up way faster than they should for it. Like rose is the easiest example to pin down because as she kept progressing through the worlds she ended up seeing the endgame and was contacted by eldritch gods to save them from the end of the universe because the threat was so great to the point where rose is casually talking about planning her own suicide mission not to mention that her solo progress meant that she ended up realizing what needs to be done first which is why shes at the center of planning all their moves

but then you have things like dave having been told by his future self that he’s being trusted by his future selves to become someone worthy of being said future selves to the point that when he learns of his brothers death he flat out says that he wishes he could mourn him but the threat that bec noir presents is simply too great at the moment to take any kind of breather and that they Have to stay on track to fixing everything

and then you have jade who, for a good chunk of the story, was sleeping and having fun on prospit wanting to introduce her friends to it one day. she was dreaming for most of the story but when the chips fell down she sacrificed herself to save john and when she came back had a panic attack because dying was really fucking scary and she doesnt want to do this anymore. more than that, jade in the enter animatic ended up shooting bec and inadvertently made noir stronger. one of the markers of children growing up is literally the death of their pets and even more so when she says goodbye to it to revive her dream self

and john. literally at the center of the narrative told by everyone at every point how important he is and that Hes The Hero and that the people he cares about are secondary to him. cries when he received his birthday letter a few feet away from jades corpse. the one desire john has specifically voiced throughout this whole ordeal so far is wanting to see his dad. more than anything the process of ascending not only requiring the death of one of their lives but specifically that they have to die while sleeping. literally growing up by losing their ability to dream.

[zeravmeta]

I also always do find it kind of weird how a good chunk of people will reduce most of cyrus’ motivations to ‘oh yeah he had an abusive childhood it makes sense!’ because thats only one part of it. Yes it’s true that that was the start but a lot of what makes cyrus interesting is that while the story does treat him like a villain, it’s less of a “final villain boss” type way and more of a “he was just like you once” type of way. 

What I mean by this is that a lot of cyrus’ decisions come from a place of pain and yet despite his commitment to his “emotionless leader” schitck he very genuinely wears his heart on his sleeve. The pokemon masters villain story has the galactic bosses questioning their loyalty to him if cyrus truly finds it expendable (where his team up with darkrai also comes from how both want to put the world to sleep and end all strife by basically locking everyone into dreams), but in platinum it’s made clear that both mars and jupiter actually did know that cyrus’ plan did entail remaking the world, rather that the commanders didn’t really understand the scale of what he was doing. There’s also the bit of gameplay mechanics feeding into the story with how cyrus has a crowbat (which implies he treats his pokemon well and does care for them), but specifically I want to talk about team galactic as an organization: it’s revealed during the main plot that team galactic is mostly made up of unemployed, idiotic grunts who are just given a place to gather. Both cyrus and looker call on the fact that they are an easily-riled mob composed of outcasts who are dissatisfied with society (kind of like team skull, what I think is an intentional parallel given some of the similarities with cyrus and guzma), but while cyrus himself says that it’s because having that much manipulateable manpower is easy, when we explore the galatic headquarters base, we end up finding a nap room (which, i might add, is one of the cutest ‘villain taking care of their henchman’ things i’ve ever seen). When we talk to the majority of the grunts, it turns out that they mostly just live in the headquarters and occasionally use the pokemon given to them, and it makes sense because theres also a free use kitchen and tv room. Cyrus, for all his insistence on the grunts being disposable manpower, legitimately takes care of them and lets them live in the base. 

There’s also the encounter in the distortion world with giratina and cynthia, and after cyrus heavily insists that the world will fall apart whether we defeat or catch giratina, he’s still shocked and confused as to why and how nothings changed. cynthia the first time she talks to him tells him that if he’s so disatisfied with the world, then why does he not simply leave to a place where he never has to see anyone else again, but cyrus rebukes her, saying that he won’t run away on that front just to accomodate others. The second time, after we catch/defeat giratina, cynthia tries to give cyrus a power of friendship speech, but this time he flat out tells her to shut up. He says that he doesn’t understand how such small happinesses can possibly be worth a lifetime of suffering, and (what is very much the crux of his character i would say) that his own spirit is incomplete specifically because he’s filled with rage and frustration. It’s actually telling how cynthia, who for most of the game has been pushing along the player character and encouraging them, actually has a moment where she doubts her own words, but then reminds us that things like compassion and kindness can only come from people wanting to stop the pain and suffering of others. 

cyrus at his core i feel is a character who kind of challanges the entire pokemon worlds system with “what if the power of friendship just isnt enough?”. his motivations stem from a lack of feeling complete, and that he thinks his own emotions and feelings are wrong because they are ugly. Instead of trying to make the world perfect because he thinks himself perfect, he’s trying to ‘fix’ the world because he feels himself as so thoroughly broken for even feeling the way he does, and reasons that everyone else must also feel this way but are deluding themselves with false hopes. He calls out constantly how the subjective emotions of many leads to conflict, but he flat out declared war on the universe; he claims that spirit is uneccessary and aims to be rid of it, but he freely admits as to how he uses his own spirit to rally and strengthen that of others. He’s an incredibly effective villain because for all that he is a hypocrite with his actions and words, it’s more so that he just genuinely doesn’t get that what he’s doing is wrong, at least mostly. He legitimately believes that he’s doing the world and everyone a favor by trying to erase spirit so that people will never come into conflict, and all of it stems from how he is so conflicted with himself because in a world where the power of friendship can fix everything, it didn’t fix him. He didn’t just ‘move on’ or ‘grow past the pain’ of his childhood, and the rest of his life still had him feeling empty, that even with how much he surrounded himself with others, and how team galactic are quite arguably the most devoted and loyal of all the villain teams, with how much the galactic commanders adore him, he still feels incomplete. 

I think it’s incredibly fitting that cyrus is the one who gives you the master ball in platinum. In almost all pokemon games its either the pokemon professor or maybe a hidden treasure in a villain base that you find, but cyrus gives it to you directly. He says that it’s because he doesn’t require bonds, but also because he doesn’t even view his pokemon as tools either. I think this is also a case of game mechanics feeding into a story where I bet most people absolutely used the master ball to catch giratina (myself included when i first played the game), to show that even with all his pomp and circumstance, there is still some part of him that does see value in the bonds and spirit of people. 

He just cant accept that answer at the moment because its quite literally failed him too many times by that point, which is why he’s never really redeemed or properly defeated in platinum. Instead, platinum ends cyrus’ story with a promise that he will come back, and we do see in usum and masters how his story is resolving, with his ideals being even more directly challenged now that he isn’t literally holding the universe at gunpoint.

cyrus is one of those characters where fandom has two completely different views of him and neither of them are entirely accurate to the source material. "he's a sociopath with no emotions who's completely evil and a cult leader" he literally shows emotions constantly, especially at the end of platinum, and even compliments the player for getting through galactic hq. "he has done nothing wrong ever, he is a baby" he tried destroying the world. like yeah, he thought it would be a net positive thing, but still. destroying the world is unobjectively a bad thing.

[zeravmeta]

sometimes im normal and then sometimes i think about how robin had been on the run for 20 years starting at age fucking 8 and when we meet her she's actively aiding in the destabilization of a country and gets so many people killed but one of the first things luffy says about her is that she isnt a bad person. I particularly think about her first appearance and her interactions with crocodile, because crocodile is (much like other OP characters) kind of a ridiculous man in his dramatic overcoat and his giant pets he feeds people to and. do you think robin was emulating him in that way with her own personal giant dramatic coat and cowboy fit. on the run for 20 years ever since she was a child, having to make herself useful to people so that they wouldnt suddenly abandon her, emulating her boss not only to gain his favor but also to try and appear intimidating herself? how many times had she done something like this. robin is a character who presents herself in so many ways, always wrapping herself up in an air of mystery and intrigue but shes also so deeply childish, she constantly makes morbid jokes about her situation because the last lesson one of the only people who cared about her gave her was that what else is there to do but laugh. to never stop laughing. having lived on the run she knows that an assassin is most effective when their weapon is concealed and yet she freely shows off her powers just to gain their trust. to play with luffy and chopper and usopp. how gratifying do you think robin felt when nami called her a sister. in skypiea she's constantly providing tactical assistance in how to survive in the wilderness but she's afraid when luffy and usopp start laughing at her suggestions. lets make a bonfire, robin! we're out camping, this is what you're supposed to do! she freezes in the same way she did when the kids on ohara laughed at her but even when the straw hats happily invite her to party she still stands on the edge, sitting further from the rest. she doesn't know what to do there. she had no will to live after luffy had saved her but one of the truly happiest moments she has is when she's not even cheering, just sitting in awe seeing the ancient city in the sky. was she thinking of her friends then? she never had friends her own age, just scholars multiple times her age and yet they were still her friends, who would never get to see this sight. when aokiji reappears and nearly kills them, shes stonefaced upon waking up that the straw hats even considered having a sleepover in her room. because they were worried about her. she's never had a sleepover, and it's something so simple to the straw hats, that of course they wouldn't see their friend as someone to use. she's never escaped the headspace she was in when she had to run away from the mountains of corpses of a burning ohara. the first and last thing her mother ever said to her was that she didnt know her, no matter how much she wanted to embrace her daughter. she never had the chance to say goodbye. she never had the chance to grow up.

sometimes i think about how nico robin was in many ways raised by her friends in the straw hats with their love for her and hauve covid

[morsking]

happy birthday sparkle on! keep finaling those fantasies!!!

keep zeraving those metas

[dvalshock]

where is zerav's meta post.

[zeravmeta]

Honestly it wouldn't be that much of a surprise if that's the reason why the ocean wants to kill us.

It's just fully polluted with all the Originum that's been thrown about by all the industry, mining and burning of the technological and industrial revolution that Terra seems to be undergoing. That's not even mentioning Catastrophes (which are also man-made from said mining and burning of Originum as fuel).

Skadi also has an impossibly low amount of Originum in her system, which means that there aren't like open deposits of Originum on the ocean floor, plus all the hints we've gotten about how Originum interacts with the mind (Specter hearing voices, Nightingale's amnesia, Amiya and Ines' empath powers, Nightmares second aggressive personality, etc) makes me think if all that polluting Originum in the Ocean might have made some kind of unconcious collective.

Originum might have made the Ocean as a whole literally alive. And its fucking pissed.

I just think it’s very interesting but also hilarious that with almost every event so far, we have a “secret” cutscene (as in, usually found in EX stages and in one case, found only on the rerun of the event) or two regarding the Aegirians, the Ocean, and how fucked up the latter is.

It’s honestly a very effective and interesting way of keeping that arc fresh in our minds and relevant throughout the long game, since it’s clear that Hypergryph doesn’t intend on tackling that plotline for a long time now, that way, it doesn’t just come out of nowhere when the time comes and we have crumbs to go on and assemble a bigger picture in the meantime… But it’s also really funny because everything else might be happening at the time, but then we take a little minute so we are reminded that, yes, the Ocean, capital O, is real, it hates you, it can hurt you, and it can’t wait to hurt you.

[zeravmeta]

Well, this -unwraps a lollipop, puts it in my mouth and then lights the end of it like a cigarette- is some real fuckin shit bro.

Everything here is basically correct bc salieri is an amalgimation of murder rumors in a trenchcoat while meph is a blank mannequin wearing a legend.

But the difference between them is that salieri can't see himself as salieri because he ISNT salieri, he's the Man in Gray, the one who killed the person beloved by God and suffers major personality issues as a result, whereas meph fully embraces the role of the devil Mephistopheles because it's the only way he was ever taught to interact with and love the world around him.

Salieri can only express himself by the desire to kill Mozart because that's what he's been reduced to, yet he still does wish for adoration and praise. he wants others to also SEE that Mozart is a genius beyond compare, he doesn't want others to get the idea that him wanting to kill Mozart = him HATING Mozart, because that's just not true, he LOVES Mozart which is why he's an Avenger, he hates the humanity that turned his respect and adoration for the Man he loved into a "dramatic" story for vengeance. Salieri hates humanity but loves Mozart even though Mozart's talent was ultimately human, only seen as divine because it was so unmatched by anyone. It's why he can't be considered to be Salieri anymore, simply the titular Man in Gray, because Salieri loved Mozart, and at the end of the day, the Man in Gray wants to kill him.

Meph on the other hand is actually the opposite. Meph was nothing, made to take up the role of a devil as a way to elevate themself beyond their purpose, and fully embraced it because there was nothing else they could be. You mention their Valentine's, but in mephs interlude proper we straight up help him kill Faust and destroy an semblance of his legacy, because for all his postulating, Faust is someone meph genuinely hates. We never see him that serious before and even since, and it's also his way of warning you "I'm a devil, I'm the enemy of humanity because that is what I was made to be, do not ever forget that". But he also does genuinely love humanity, he covets and fears them at the same time because he's always astounded and impressed by them, and what better way to help them grow than to be the devil that they must unite against?

Salieri may wonder of Mephs origins but Faust was never kind to him, if anything in the fgo version of the story, Meph was the victim who was used against their will. Meph may wonder why Salieri doesn't emrace his role as a killer, but unlike Meph, Salieri WAS someone, he did have an identity before becoming the Man in Gray

Their parallels to other characters are also a big point: Mozart never once denied his talent, but also never really made any excuses of divine intervention to explain it. He's simply the damn best the world had to offer and he's so great that capital g God himself loves him. Salieri loves him as well, and he loves him so much that the world twisted it into a desire to kill him, which is why Mozart doesn't hate Salieri in turn, because it really is how he expresses his love for Mozart (coughcough Sigurd/Bryn levels of romance). Limbo on the other hand is also an opposite to meph, because both embraced their roles as devil's and enemies of humanity, but limbo lacks the love for them that meph has in spades. Limbo will watch you fall into hell and follow, while meph will hold your hand on the way down.

Basically, salieri complained one time that meph ate the last slice of carrot cake and meph will go "you want to fuck me so bad it makes you look stupid"

Thinking about the potential dynamic between Mephisto and Salieri…

(takes a deep breath) 

both of them viewing themselves as demons who exist only as tools of destruction and don’t deserve love but desperately crave it… 

(kicks over a trash can I tried stuffing my emotions in) 

SALIERI WONDERING WHY MEPH FEELS THIS WAY WHEN FAUST SUPPOSEDLY TREATED HIM WELL AND MEPH WONDERING WHY SALIERI FEELS THIS WAY BECAUSE SALIERI WAS CREATED SPECIFICALLY TO KILL MOZART IF WE TAKE HIS VALENTINES SCENE AT FACE VALUE WHEREAS MEPHISTO CHOSE TO KILL FAUST!!

(opens the window and screams)

SALIERI HAVING A CASTER “COUNTERPART” IN MOZART AND MEPHISTO HAVING AN EXTRA-CLASS “COUNTERPART” IN ASHIYA DOUMAN!!

[zeravmeta]

i think a particularly fascinating wrinkle to post amnesia doctor and civilight eterna theresa's dynamic is that for all intents and purposes, the original doctor did die.

because who else is truly left to continue the legacy of their original civilization? doctor explicitly says kal'tsit doesn't even have the full context on the creation of originum, and even if she did kal'tsit has already long chosen terra over their original civilization. pre amnesia doctor was complicit in theresas murder specifically because they were the last one left, they were burdened by the guilt of duty in ensuring that the thousands of years and billions of lives worth of effort didn't go up in smoke. And yet it did. It will.

it was theresa's revenge, after all. her little terrible trick, a final small revenge against the person who wished it didn't have to end this way. the doctor took her life, so she took theirs. 'fate' should not exist, after all. it was her fate to bear the suffering of the sarkaz, and it was the doctors fate to bear the mission of their original civilization. So, she freed them, and destroyed their fate.

Just in the same way the doctor once again freed theresa from her 'fate', able to finally pass on with the countless sarkaz before her, no longer trapped by originum. post amnesia doctor doesnt really know theresa except for the first and last conversation they had in the assimilated originum universe, but in their encounter it's incredibly clear that theresa, even though she so clearly missed them, also knows that post amnesia doctor... isnt the same person.

The original doctor already said goodbye. They faced theresa in that room where she was assassinated, filled with something far too heavy to be called guilt, and stood before her waiting to die. And even though theresa didn't physically kill them, she fractured their mind and took their memories, she took away the burden of their fate as the last survivor of their kind. She banished the evil spirit haunted by the eons of experience and sacrifice and left behind only a purified soul, nothing but a trustworthy fool who fights for the people they love.

memories can be what endures long after a person is gone, but it is the experiences themselves which shape the individual. doctor has no memories, and civilight eterna theresa only inherited all of hers. neither of them had the experiences which shaped their past selves, neither of them are really the same person as those whom everyone around them looked towards, because they can only really grow as people from there.

Their original selves died a long time ago, holding each others hands in that faraway field, and all that's left are the shadows of themselves who can grow into something new. babel's voyage had long ended, but rhodes island will continue. The Evil Spirit of Babel and The King of Sarkaz are long gone, but the Doctor and Civilight Eterna are still here.

the me who is not me and the you who is not you... it didn't work out for our original selves, but even if we are not those people, we are products of their love. it is not by 'fate' that we are here, it is love.

[zeravmeta]

I have like 3 different theories as to who she could be

1. She's an existance similar to Void Ryougi Shiki, someone with a direct connection to the Root. This theory comes from how she was able to just instantly defeat the Lostbelt Tree in LB1, and how shes appeared so far. The Lostbelt Trees are revealed in LB3 to be comprised of information infinitely folded onto itself, and QSH was able to "reach an empty heaven" through that, which implies that Moth reached the Root. Theres also the fact that she can appear but technically doesn't exist, since Holmes and the SB cant detect anything but an empty void, the same way Void Shiki is a person who technically doesnt exist because theyre literally the Void with a consciousness.

2. She's Olga Marie Animusphere, having been salvaged from CHALDEAS the same way the Crypters were salvaged. This theory seems the likeliest to me for a couple of reasons: She was in the Lostroom when Olga was present, talking to Guda and was looking sadly at the two, she attempted to reach out to Mash, and she specifically recognized Gudas room. Also, while sge seems to have her allegiance to the Alien God,shes working against them a few times and most of her help seems to be behind the scenes rather than direct (since the LB events arent exactly observable from the outside), so it could be Olga trying to help Chaldea behind the scenes despite being a reborn being, and her reaching for Mash and Guda could be trying to reach out and talk to them.

3. She's a living Lostbelt with a humanlike appearance. This ones unlikely but hear me out: The Alien God put the Crypters and the Trees into place so as to supplant PanHuman History, but they don't exactly care which one wins so long as one succeeds. The Crypters are also not exactly working together and have admitted to be trying to one-up eachother in order to win. Going back to theory 2 as to why She seems interested in Mash and Guda, all the Lostbelt events take place in 2018, so whatever Lostbelt she is/is from, its possible that Mash and Guda are present in them. Also, being able to defeat a LB Tree instantly means that she could understand what was needed to kill it, since she specifically froze it first before destroying it.

the whole existence of the Priestess of a Foreign Star aka. U-chan, is a whole other element to the lostbelt story.

she appears to have omnipresent properties and enough power to destroy fantasy trees with a single touch. she can communicate (or attempts to with Ophelia and Tamamo vicchi) but she doesn’t know human tongue she’s been shown to be helping both sides of the conflict a little bit she can will her existence to be perceived if she wants and to select people if she desires. to quote how she’s perceived by the current cast: “The instruments of the Shadow Border are unable to detect her presence, instead detecting simply [nothingness] where she stands. Holmes describes her as a void-like emptiness seeping out into the space around it. She can somehow making her existence perceivable only for some people, proven when, even in the same room, Sigurd in his spiritual form was unable to sense her presence nor see her, falsely believing his master was talking alone.“ in the lostbelt opening she’s shown to have some connection to mashu

i get so excited trying to wrap my brain around who or what she might be.

[zeravmeta]

This is even better because Church constantly died but came back whereas circumstance made it so that Tex wouldn't be allowed to die, evwn when she wanted too

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

So Ozma 2.0′s color scheme is light blue, right?

And Salem’s color scheme is black, right?

Man this whole thing seems kind of familiar.

I can’t help but feel like I’ve seen this whole story somewhere before…

Oh.

[zeravmeta]

actually the other fantastic part of goghies interlude is that it's revealed that all of her puns actually come from the 5% van gogh part and it gets filtered through the 95% clytie as a bocchi-esque nervous wreck delivery

listen to me girl im the dead painter in your head you have to make these puns or we'll explode forever

[zeravmeta]

I always do find it super interesting and really funny that its usually the human characters who are more monstrous than the actual monsters through no great feat other than passion and dedication.

Raikou can kick ass in every concievable way but the majority of her character arc stems with how she wants to connect with others but can't. However despite her horrible lineage she still genuinely wants to connect with people, which is a very human goal to have. Another great example of this is Merlin, who has the biggeat emotional boner for Guda because he genuinely cares about Guda yet because of hid half incubus nature deludes himself onto thinking it's just entertainment value. AND EVEN SPECIFICALLY his relationship with Saber and how he distanced himself entirely from Camelot because he felt he had no place there after watching it all fall and put himself in self-imposed isolation to observe and quite literally stay out of the way of those he loved. Lots of the monster characters really do care so deeply and strive to reach the abstract goal of being human yet don't realize that they're closer than they think.

Meanwhile people like Scathch, Nightingale, Hijikata, and Ushiwakamaru for example are all completely human yet find difficulty connecting with others because they're so set in their ways and achieved unreachable peaks of total badass compared to their peers that most normal people are just "thats illegal you're a monster". Alot (and i stress the ALOT) of the rules in Nasuverse are based around the perception of people and thats part of what warps these individuals to seem more monsterlike. Nightingale for example is a driven and determined person by nature but the idea that someone could be so genuinely selfless was registered as insane by the throne and so she was GIVEN madness enhancement (her 2nd interlude reveals that she actually didnt fit into ANY servant class container and that zerker was the last resort/best fit and warped her as a result). Another good example is Scathach, who was literally retconned by the world itself to be immortal becauae she achieved so much in so few time so the world gave her retroactive immortality she needs to live out in order to feasibly have done everything shes already done and properly exist. And once again, circling back to Ushiwakamaru, shes just WAY too good at kicking ass to be able to connect with others, and that perception does warp them. They're all literally too badass to cope. They stop being human and start being Heroes

Overall, appreciate your servants theyre trying their best

#oooh spicy #theres also how compared to raikou ushi is alot more concious of her actions bc she doesnt have the craziest mimosa of a bloodline like mama #so while raikou is insane due to mad enhancement + all her lineage nonsense AND her shit family #ushi is just *like that* because shes eager to please yet also has no problem just slaughrering dor the hell of it #ushiwakamaru: i love you do you need someone killed please let me kill someone for you

@zeravmeta

I feel it bears mentioning that because Raikou has Mad Enhancement EX, it’s a case of her actually being insane rather than it being an alteration of her personality due to Servanthood.

Similar to Hijikata, Spartacus, Nightingale, and Penth, she’s not insane because she was summoned as Berskerer and given Mad Enhancement, she has Mad Enhancement EX and became a Berserker because she was already insane to begin with.  It’s why she retains her Mad Enhancement, albeit a weakened version of it, in her Summer Lancer form.  

As for Ushi, her inability to actually relate to other people comes from a very similar place as Raikou.  Raikou isn’t human, and her inability to reconcile this with her desire to be human drives her insane.  Ushi IS human, but is so hypercompetent when it comes to fighting that she might as well be inhuman.

Raikou on a fundamental level can’t relate to humans because the nature of her existence is far beyond them.  Ushi can’t relate to humans because her skill and ability are so far beyond them.  For both of them, in different ways, killing is as easy as breathing.  “People” die so easily, and struggle with things they achieve so effortlessly, they just can’t truly get along with them.

But they both desire to live with humanity and be accepted.  Raikou channeled this into motherhood and got her validation from Kintoki.  Ushi channeled it into unfailing loyalty and fixated on her older brother, who as we all know betrayed and murdered her.