#engaging with the canon

[fourgods-nobrakes]

Ok so 40k has more canon than anyone can possibly hope to consume all of. BUT we all wind up with our favorite bits, and the ones that say something super crucial about our blorbos, some bit of canon we cling to and that makes a huge difference to us in how we think about them. What one or two stories do that for you with your fave? I'll start:

Aurelian by Aaron Dembski-Bowden: THE crucial character study for Lorgar, more than his primarch novel or even First Heretic. Looks at his feelings in the wake of his conversion, his convictions, what he actually wants for the galaxy, and captures the key transition point right after Isstvan V where he's really internalized how brutal this conflict will have to be. ALSO one of his best 1v1 fights.

"Revelation of the Word" by David Annandale (possibly only audiobook): The canon moment when Lorgar, during the Shadow Crusade, finds out about the developing Imperial Cult—and it's not the meme take of "he got what he wanted" at all.

Now you: what are the key things you would put in someone's hands if you wanted them to understand why you love your fave?

[fourgods-nobrakes]

the "he would have been my choice" is also a reprise of Horus being near death in False Gods and giving his valediction:

“Then who would you have picked to be Warmaster if not you?’ asked Petronella. Horus appeared to be momentarily perturbed by her question, but said, ‘Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once that victory is won.

they are SO normal about each other and deserve so much more fic that explores how deep and complex their feelings are—on both sides—and what could have been if they hadn't been narratively predestined to be Big Symbolic Enemies.

Sanguinius and Horus being entirely normal about each other, a quote post

In roughly chronological order.

(LONG. Apologies for the terrible mobile formatting)

Mortarion’s primarch novel:

The two of them have been sent to find out what Mortarion is up to with his, uh, unconventional methods of compliance.

[Horus] grimaced and placed a hand on the Angel’s shoulder. ‘Our judgement must not be rushed, though. I understand the temptation. Believe me, I feel it too. That, I am convinced, is why our father sent us to meet with Mortarion. We can check each other’s first impulses without causing offence.’

‘You think we can check Mortarion’s too?’

[…]

‘I think it is good that we have our time to think about that before Mortarion arrives.’

Sanguinius smiled. ‘The better to check our first impulses?’

Horus smiled back. ‘I do think it’s best that we greet him calmly, don’t you?’

(No, I don’t know why this sounds like they are going to bang in the meantime.)

Mortarion is pissed off that the two of them in particular are there: Sanguinius and Horus were so close. Mortarion felt a bond with Horus, but he knew it was not as strong as the one that joined Horus to the Angel. He was facing a united front, whether or not the other two would admit it, even to themselves.

He has a point; they are basically finishing each other’s sentences during their cameo in this novel: [Mortarion:] ‘I have nothing to hide.’

‘We don’t mean to imply you do,’ said Horus.

‘It’s not your honesty that concerns us,’ said Sanguinius.

---

The flashback to Melchior in Fear to Tread:

[Sanguinius]: ‘I must content myself with merely being the better warrior.’

‘Don’t make me pluck those wings,’ Horus retorted.

‘Perish the thought!’ said Sanguinius. ‘Without them I’d only be as handsome as you are.’

‘That would be tragic,’ Horus agreed.

(guys are you flirting right now)

They both express that they are sad they can’t spend more time together: ‘I confess I would relish the opportunity to share the battlefield with you again,’ Sanguinius went on. ‘And not just that. I miss our conversations.’

Horus’ frown deepened. ‘One day we will be done with all this […] Then we can talk and play regicide to our hearts’ content.’

Ohhh nooo

Horus Rising

When Sang first arrives on Murder: “[Horus] stepped forwards and embraced Sanguinius to his breast. No two primarchs were as close as the Warmaster and the Angel. They had barely been out of each other’s company since Sanguinius’ arrival.”

Horus is determined to go into battle personally on Murder. “Loken was sure that Sanguinius was the reason. Horus could not bring himself to stand by and watch his dearest brother go to war. Horus could not resist the temptation of fighting shoulder to shoulder with Sanguinius, as they had done in the old days.

Horus would not let himself be outshone, even by the one he loved most dearly.”

During a discussion about the interex: “Sanguinius said nothing. He allowed his Chapter Master to weigh in with the opinion of the Blood Angels, but kept his own considerable influence for Horus’ ears alone.”

Making each other giggle:

“[Horus:] ’And it seems my wisest option is to return to Terra and confront the Council on the issue of taxation.’

Sanguinius sniggered.”

The scene which comes immediately after the infamous ‘on his knees and not above a whisper’ moment, where Sanguinius appears in Horus’ chambers having eavesdropped on his conversation with Loken and Aximand. It gives very ‘I was just hanging out in my boyfriend’s bedroom in a robe, eating cherries, like ya do’ vibes.

“Sanguinius stood in an archway at the far end of the chamber, behind a veil of white silk. He had been listening. The Lord of Angels brushed the silk hanging aside, and stepped into the stateroom, the crests of his wings brushing the glossy material. He was dressed in a simple white robe, clasped at the waist with a girdle of gold links. He was eating fruit from a bowl.

Loken and Aximand stood up quickly.

‘Sit down,’ Sanguinius said. ‘My brother’s in the mood to open his heart, so you had better hear the truth.’

‘I don’t believe-‘ Horus began. Sanguinius scooped one of the small, red fruits from his bowl and threw it at Horus.

‘Tell them the rest,’ he sniggered.

Horus caught the thrown fruit, gazed at it, then bit into it. He wiped the juice off his chin with the back of his hand[…]

‘Sanguinius, my dear brother, is right, for Sanguinius has always been my conscience.’

Sanguinius shrugged, an odd gesture for a giant with furled wings.”

Loken’s POV:

“Two days earlier, Primarch Sanguinius had finally taken his leave and returned to Imperial territory with the Blood Angels contingents. Horus clearly hated to see him go, but it was a prudent move, and one Sanguinius had chosen to make simply to buy his brother more time with the interex.”

Later in Fear to Tread, Horus’ choice of messenger to Sang is… interesting:

An unnaturally tall female clad from head to foot in robes of a strange, sheer material […] beneath the shapeless robes she wore nothing else.

‘Horus Lupercal’s message is for his brother’s eyes only. The meme-blocks in my psyche and the telepathic codes holding my aura closed will only dissolve…’ She released a sigh, gazing dreamily at the primarch. ‘When we are alone.’

Sanguinius was like marble for the longest moment, his face unreadable.

[he agrees]

The primarch reached out and raised her chin with his fingertips, making her meet his gaze. ‘You’re a curious one,’ he offered. ‘What has made my brother send you to me, mamzel?’

‘I would not like to guess,’ she breathed, fingering a silver clasp upon her robes.

[…] ‘I am not divine, sayeth the angel.’ She reached out, daring to touch the trailing edge of his folded wings beneath the mail cloak.

To deliver the message, she of course has to strip off. I can only imagine Sang at this point thinking he has basically been sent a strip-o-gram.

The End and the Death. Ohhh boy. (I’m trying to avoid real plot spoilers so these are mostly out of context quotes)

Ways in which Horus describes Sang in this book, sometimes within a few pages:

Sanguinius, whom you’ve always loved

The beautiful Angel

He was the only other choice [for Warmaster]. Can I tell you a secret? He would have been my choice. I love all my brothers, but my love for Sanguinius is particular. […] You must meet him. He will take your breath away.

Back in the day, you adored him because you thought him fearlessly brave. But it was effortless back then. To see him now, fighting on despite his mortal dread of you, you understand that he has become fearfully brave. That is impressive. It makes you love him a little more.

He’s taunting you […] You thought he was better than that. You thought, in fact, that he was perfect. [It] makes him seem juvenile, and you don’t want to think of him that way. He’s Sanguinius. You’ve always loved him.

He’s got a little left. A little strength. A little speed. More than you expected. He deserves his fame. […] Oh, he’s good. Even now. Still trying.

The dreams were real. Your favourite brother should have heeded them.

He sees himself as the last good man standing. The last loyal son. The last bastion of noble valour, fighting to the death in his father’s name, refusing to submit. That’s why you love him. It is painfully heroic. It is the quintessence of what he is.

Before Sang finds Horus, A Character explains to him that ‘You don’t know if you want to [kill him], because it’s Horus.’ […] and that the pain he feels is not his wounds, but grief for the loss of Horus as he knew him. Sang says ‘I couldn’t see it. Now you say it, I do. I miss him very much. So very much.’

The same Character: ‘Join him? He’d love that. He loves you.’

Sooo as if that wasn’t heartbreaking enough -

Their first words to one another:

Horus: ‘Brother.’ […] My brother. My dear brother. I waited for you for so long. You have come, as I hoped you would. I have missed you. […] My heart is full that this is the choice you made.’

Sanguinius: ‘And my heart is full to see you again. […] Despite all that has taken place. I have mourned the loss of my brother Horus. I would not have let this monstrous war end without seeing you, with my own eyes, one last time.’

Horus tries to convince Sang to join him straight away. ‘Make a wise choice, my dear brother. I have longed for your company.’

When Sang declines: A single tear wells from his eye and trickles down his cheek. ‘Pity,’ he says.

Sang’s POV (a passage which has such Vibes that I immediately wrote a fic based on That Intimate Knowledge):

He knows Horus, just as he knows the Vengeful Spirit. He knows his brother’s secret levels and concealed flaws, because Horus taught them to him. In those far-off days before the shadow fell, Horus shared everything with his angel-brother. That intimate knowledge, granted without vanity or hesitation, has allowed Sanguinius to penetrate the most formidable flagship in the Imperium. It will also lead him to his brother’s heart.

Horus wanting to turn Sang to his side rather than kill him, against the wishes of the chaos gods:

You’re still holding back a little. He doesn’t have to die. When that instant of recognition finally hits him, you’ll give him one last chance to reconsider his position.

He will see, at the very last, the way things truly are. An epistemological revelation. Weeping in joy, he will beg you for forgiveness.

And you will, in your infinite mercy, grant it to him. It will be the greatest moment of his life, and the sweetest victory of yours.

At what point will he realise that everything he’s doing is utterly pointless? How beautiful will that moment of recognition be? You want to see that futility dawning in his eyes. Close up. Face to face. You want to smell it on his breath.

(calm down Horus)

Once futility has broken him, you will lift him up again. You will carry him to the throne you have prepared for him, and invite him to sit there and rest. He will have played his part, and done all he could. There’ll be no shame in saying yes to you then.

He is your favourite. Always has been. You want him with you, because that will mean something. […] To break him, to bend him to your will, now that’s a true triumph. The embodiment of Imperial loyalty, cowed at your feet, feeding from your hand, pledging his devotion. Look upon that, father.

(excuse me Horus but feeding from your hand???)

Sooo there we have the sheer vibes of the final fight featuring Horus constantly narrating how much he loves Sang. My face went through so many permutations of expressions while reading it for the first time.

[notherpuppet]

What are your top three ships for the HelluvaVerse?

in regards to canon:

chaggie, huskerdust, brotp radioapple

in regards to fanon:

chaggie, radioapple, huskerdust tied with radiostatic

[theroundbartable]

Arthur: i'm dropping hints that I like this person...

Merlin: Arthur, you literally gave me your mother's sigil.

Arthur: ... And?

Merlin: That's a proposal, not a HINT, Arthur!

[copypastus]

Fandom is about smacking the dolls you like together like they're kissing coz it makes you happy, it's not that serious.

Reposting someone's work to ridicule it coz you don't agree with the pairing is bad etiquette.

@praetorqueenreyna silly hat Rhys inspired me @lorcandidlucienwill hope i can make you smile with this

[shitpostingkats]

“Riz has a tail, the Dimension 20 cast is just lying to us.” <- Unfun. Not sexy. Implies we’re owed a tailed Riz

“Riz has a tail in our collective hearts.” <- Inspiring. Transcendent. Brings the community together.

[kittykatninja321]

Post-Flashpoint comics have been trying to push the idea of Jason as a ladies man and each time I have just not been convinced I say this with all the love in my heart I will concede to the fact that Jason Todd has had sex maybe 3 times. If I’m being generous

[unproduciblesmackdown]

Lackadaisy Enrichment

[tarisilmarwen]

"The Jedi gatekept the Force!"

Ah yes. That's why they coexisted very peaceably with the Baran Do sages, the Bardottan Dagoyan Masters, the Guardians of the Whills, the Church of the Force, the Lasat, the Mirialens, and hell even the Nightsisters.

......I'm not actually sure you know what gatekeeping means.

[randomness-is-my-order]

hating/criticising jiang cheng for his canonical shitty behaviour is not “bashing” like girl, he wasn’t written in a way to be likeable as a person and anyone bringing that up or expressing their dislike for him doesn’t make them an unreasonable cynic incapable of seeing his “goodness” like pls let’s have some sense here; calling jin guangshan a predatory sleazebag is not “bashing” because that’s literally his canonical reading, just the way calling jiang cheng an asshole manchild is literally his characterisation in the book. bashing is what you’d call the bad faith call-outs towards characters like wei wuxian where the hate is moreso a result of intense personal bias than actual source material backing. bashing is where you make an unnecessary mockery out of characters who don’t seem to deserve it. but rightfully disliking jiang cheng & making a post about it is not bashing and people need to stop thinking that being unsympathetic towards an antagonistic figure needs a thesis to justify the dislike, otherwise it’s illogical nonsense––because the thesis already exists and it’s called mdzs.

[fourgods-nobrakes]

Fairly recently a friend pointed out to me just how young Kor Phaeron was when he discovered baby Lorgar with the nomads, and I haven't been able to get it out of my head since. It's a quick detail at the start of the book that I don't think comes up again: “He was young, three and a half years by the measure of Colchis' long orbit,” and a year on Colchis is, we're told, equivalent to 4.8 in Terran -- which means KP starts this story at the ripe old age of sixteen and a half.

It makes so much of the story hit differently. He's still an asshole, absolutely, and the confused and heartbroken way that child Lorgar suffers still breaks my heart. But I remember being a kid on the cusp of adulthood trying to bluff my way into being taken seriously, and KP's doing that as a homeless exile with a religious calling, within a culture that already accepts a high level of brutality. No wonder he has no patience and lashes out and turns to violence whenever he thinks his authority is being questioned. He's not a scheming mastermind who has all the answers; he's a half-educated outcast (he can't read the more esoteric of the texts he owns!) who, as a teenager, made the choice to seize what he thought would be his means to power and slowly comes to realize is actually a god-child who will surpass him in every way.

No wonder there was a timeline where he murdered Lorgar right after they finished unifying the planet, tbh :(

[heilos]

Why did no one tell me creative writing for world building is actually fun and engaging for your own personal AU project that you care about making wtf is this sorcery

[chickenoptyrx]

Went back and drew a sketchbook comic from a couple months ago. I might continue it at some point but, for now, guess you'll just hafta use ur imagination :T

[zahri-melitor]

"Young Master Timothy brought Conner with him to dinner. They have a proposal of their own." "A very expensive proposal, I'm sure. I'm still paying off the last Titans Tower..."

(Batman #96 2016)

Yes, thank you James Tynion IV for that. A very expensive proposal, you say?

Okay, for context Bruce is currently drugged on a cocktail of Rogue toxins and hallucinating the future, but I laughed.

[dentos-wife]

Let’s talk how about Chrom and Robin’s bond evolved over time

With everyone clamoring over the new emblem I wanted to take a look back how we got here with their relationship and why I think at this point Chrobin is the intended or inferred Chrom pairing when it didn’t used to be.

In 2012 we got Fire Emblem Awakening, and as Chrom was related to Marth, his inferred pairing was Sumia a pegasus knight as a nod to Caeda, Marth’s canon wife. Granted because part of Awakening’s charm is you could pair anyone up, you didn’t have to pair Chrom up with Sumia if you didn’t wish to. But to IS she was the intended choice.

She had special scenes with Chrom and was the most likely to end up paired with him if you weren’t gunning for a specific wife for him

And you see her here in the opening with Lucina

Robin is you, the avatar, they don’t even have official art, just them with a hood

They had a canon design what we all know now but it wasn’t really used. And that should have been it as far as IS was concerned. Awakening was their last hurrah. And then FE blew up.

Robin’s canon design is now getting used, both the male and female version are now in Smash Bros. Then we have Warriors and Heroes and the Awakening cast shows up more. But not Sumia. Perhaps it’s because she’s not popular or the people flocked to Cordelia instead but she is the pegusus knight everyone loves. Sumia isn’t even in Warriors or the base FEH she gets added much later to FEH only with other less popular Awakening characters.

It’s here when FE became more maintstream I believe that IS changed their tune on Sumia being the intended wife and retconed it. I fully think Sumia was dropped and they no longer had an intended pairing for him all because she just wasn’t popular. Him and Robin were close of course they always were, obviously some would see it as friendship others would see it as something more the usual nothing really changed there.

And then 2022 ten full years after Awakening’s release...this happened

Couple things here. I fully believe the reason Chrom was paired with MRobin here instead of FRobin is for two big reasons reasons.

1) If they paired him with FRobin it canonizes a pairing so MRobin is the safer option, FEH doesn’t usually pair men and women unless they’re already a pairing. So MRobin got paired with Chrom and FRobin was on her own but she still has lines about how much Chrom meant to her.

2) MRobin is the more popular Robin as has been shown every year in CYL and he’d even win next year

So Chrom and Robin were always close it was a no brainer to make them a duo unit, they picked the male version on a very family oriented banner.

That said some of these lines...well let’s just say if a man and a woman were saying that to each other there would be no doubt here. Imagine if this Robin was the female version

Robin: There's Lissa, Emmeryn, Lucina, Frederick... I think we've got gifts for everyone. Don't we? Chrom: Well, all but one. What would you like your gift to be, Robin? Robin: What? Me? You can't just come out and ask like that, you know. There are rules! Chrom: You know I don't care about that. Just tell me what you want. Robin: Truthfully...I can't think of anything. Chrom: You don't want anything? Aw, come on. Think of the bind that puts me in. Robin: You gave my life meaning when I had nothing—not even my memory. The sense of purpose I've found at your side, working for peace in the world, is all I could ever ask for. Chrom: You're not alone in that, you know. I feel the same way. That's why I wanted to give you something nice. To show you how I feel. Robin: All right, all right. In that case, why don't you give me one of those flowers you're wearing? Chrom: It's only going to wilt. Robin: I'll press it into one of my books. That way I'll never forget this Day of Devotion.

Snippet from their duo convo. Usually when someone gives flowers it’s considered a pretty romantic gesture I’ve heard plenty of people call this alt playfully the gays and yeah this is very strong.

FRobin even comments on them in one of her lines.

“That man with Chrom is a Robin from another world, right? They get along so well, I'm almost jealous...“

There was no need for that line at all, we can tell from their lines how flipping close they are but they felt the need to have another character comment on it in base lines

I do believe MRobin was used not to canonize a pairing...at first. And then they gave up because it looked like people really liked it going even further in the next year.

In Awakening Chrom and Robin refer to themselves as two halves of the same whole which is already a loaded term. But it’s never been used after and was just part of the game

Enter the next time they pair up as the Emblem of Bonds which brought that back for the first time since 2012, in full force

Correct me if I’m wrong but no one besides them have referred to each other as their other half in Awakening

Lucina does it in Engage. For reference other half means husband, wife or partner (romantic). I think after the Valentine’s alt they decided sure why not and now they’re really going in with Robin being Chrom’s other half when they only touched the term once past Awakening in a FRobin cipher card. Other half in Engage is Robin and he pops up when engaged with Chrom to mix magic with the attack. I don’t doubt you can mean a friend with this term but when paired with everything else they say to each other, it’s pretty strong evidence it’s further than friendship.

Okay now for the the ultimate Robin is now Chrom’s intended partner view, Legendary Robin also released this year

“Tactician of Ylisse. Celebrated as Exalt Chrom's other half in the legends that followed their exploits. Appears in Fire Emblem Awakening. “

I saw some people argue exalt could mean Lucina too but no it doesn’t, it clearly means Chorm it says so and if you didn’t believe that, we got a map that was the two called Chrom and his other half. Which is Robin.

His art also references his other half status, he now wears blueish green jewelry which stands for Chrom and the brand of the exalt is on his chest plate

Finally in his damage art he once again has the symbol of the exalt formed in magic.

And a ring, some have argued it’s his clothes but usually the magic gauntlets he wears are on his middle finger and not under his gloves; pretty sure it’s a ring, it’s even on the ring finger of his left hand, where you generally put a wedding ring.

All this together is some very strong evidence, but put it with everything else they’ve done since last year and it’s clear to me, IS now is pushing Chrom and Robin as the intended pairing. Not canon like Marth and Caeda or Alm and Celica, but intended like they do with Eliwood and Ninian and some others I’m probably forgetting. And because MRobin is who they use and their “canon” sort of like FCorrin is the “canon” Corrin, IS is strongly hinting at MChrobin

Which fascinates me, we went from Chrom with a intended implied wife to scrapping it and pretended it never happened to this, Chrom with an intended husband. Him and his best friend, both two guys, very much in love. In ten years IS changed it’s mind on the intended canon pairing that isn’t even possible in the base game. They are a fate defying duo, the emblem of bonds, the exalt and his other half, two halves of the same whole and they are showing that in symbolism harder than ever. I think that’s really cool

To end this I’m aroace and see romance a little differently from the amatonormic norm Chrom and Robin could just be really good friends lord knows I also think friendship should be just as important as romance BUT if they were, it’s very clear they are each others most important person over any wife they might separately have.  But even that doesn’t follow a typical heteronormative relationship no? Chrom and Robin’s bonds are so strong they transcend the concept of romance and friendship as we know it, there is no name for the type of love they share it’s beyond us.

But what about Lucina? (and Morgan) In a world with magic, dragons, people dying and coming back to life, time travel and more the idea of two guys somehow having a child is no longer far fetched at all really, or even surrogates exist.

Also they act like kind of like dads with her and it’s really cute

Now granted IS could remake Awakening and MRobin will still not be able to marry Chrom and this whole analysis would have been for naught but I think if they do remake it they’ll add it. Look at how many people have been introduced to them just through Heroes and Engage you don’t think people are going to want to pair up the exalt and his other half in their game?

To sum it up, yes there literally is no heterosexual explanation for where IS has taken this. It wasn’t originally the intended pairing but it sure is now, I don’t think there is any room for denial anymore until we see what they do with a remake.

[lynzishell]

The Present ❤️ Selvadorada

Prev // Next

Transcript below the cut:

Asher: The sun is starting to go down; we should head back. Atlas: Yeah, you’re probably right. There’s a lookout over here. Do you want to check it out real quick? Or should we turn back now? Asher: We can take a look. A few minutes won’t hurt.

Atlas: Did you mean what you said earlier? That your wish is to be with me forever? Asher: Of course I meant it. Atlas: You know I want that too, right? Asher: I know.

Atlas: The only reason it didn’t occur to me to wish for it is because I’m already yours, for as long as you’ll have me, and I hope that’s forever, but I don’t want it to be because of a wish, I want us to be together because we wake up every day and choose to be.

Asher: I want that too; you know I do. The whole wish thing, it was just a hypothetical.

Atlas: I know. It’s just… Look, I don’t know how to do this, so I’m just going to ask you, okay? Asher: Ask me what?

Atlas: Will you marry me?

Asher: Really? Atlas: Really.

Asher: Hell yes, I’ll marry you!

Atlas: I love you. Asher: I love you too. Atlas: Not to ruin the moment, but we only have an hour to get out of here before it gets dark. Asher: Shit. Okay. Five more seconds and then we can go.