#don't get me wrong i think it's an interesting characterization but where does it come from did it appear in multiple places at once or

[kenobky]

i read a bit from master and apprentice some time ago and i don't get how the author and apparently many others from what I've seen around here went from the seemingly easy comradery between qui-gon and obi-wan in the phantom menace to qui-gon having to consciously make an effort to not judge and criticize obi-wan unfairly

[starrysnowdrop]

Heyo! So I happened to see your recent ask response regarding Zenos randomly, and, honestly, I'm kind of curious on what people miss about his character! I'm not a personal big fan of him(ngl he kind of creeped me out with his, projecting himself on the wol it felt like? Note I say that as a WHM main who plays as truly heroic WoL(s) most of the time admittedly, so most of his stuff made me go no? alot XD I don't mind people who do like him tho! They're cool!), but I'm interested in understanding him better if possible, cause I know I miss things that others don't and I don't think I've seen anyone explain his intricacies without being somewhat rude about it, but you explained what you did without coming off as that. So I'm kind of curious on that essay you almost wrote if you'd be alright writing it XD (Sorry for being on anon, I am, very shy qwq)

In case you’re not familiar with what this anon is asking about, this is in response to my answer to this ask HERE. Feel free to go read that one and come back!

So, I first want to say thank you for being brave enough to reach out to me about this, even on anon!! I’m really glad that you didn’t find my comments to be rude, as that is the very last thing that I would want! If anyone did find me too abrasive in my previous post above, then I wholeheartedly apologize for that. I would never want anyone to be afraid to reach out to me because I came off as rude at some point, so I appreciate you letting me know that you didn’t think I was. 💖

Alright, now let’s get to the topic at hand: Zenos, and why I truly think that he is the most misunderstood character in FFXIV.

Zenos: The Most Misunderstood Character in FFXIV

((I wrote way too much, so it’s under the cut.))

Alright, so let’s start with what I have seen as the popular take on Zenos that I see as wrong: A lot of players see Zenos as a one dimensional character that has no depth, and doesn’t have a character arc in which he grows as a character. They see him as the annoying antagonist who has a battle boner for the WoL and that’s it. They only see his bloodlust and nothing else. They don’t think there is anything else to him, and that’s where I must strongly disagree.

So, how is he not a one dimensional character? Well, that’s because he really is a complex character, but you need to be paying close attention to what Zenos is actually saying and what his actions are throughout the story.

One can piece together Zenos’ complexity purely from watching the cutscenes, but just in case anyone is curious about going into more depth on his backstory, then I highly recommend that you go read his side story from the Chronicles of Light book entitled “The Hunt Begins”. It shows how Zenos was raised, and it reinforces why he thinks the way that he does.

Without going into his backstory too much, for brevity's sake, Zenos is actually a prodigy, someone who was born with not only incredible strength, but also incredible intelligence, and you know what happens when gifted kids don't get enough of a challenge? Yup, they get easily bored. So keep that in mind as we move along. Now, mix that boredom with a good dose of Anhedonia, or the inability to experience pleasure or joy. Now we aren't sure if he was born with Anhedonia, or if he acquired it through some mental health condition, such as PTSD, depression, etc. I'm no psychologist whatsoever, so I'm not here to diagnose Zenos with any particular disorder, but it is clear that he suffers from the lack of feeling joy or pleasure in his life.

This is actually what characterizes Zenos the most when we first are introduced to him in 4.0; he is suffering from Anhedonia AND Ennui, which according to Webster's Dictionary, is not just a feeling of weariness and dissatisfaction, but its a profound sense of boredom that arises from feeling jaded with one's life.

Zenos is suffering from a lack of joy and pleasure in his life, seeing the world as meaningless and dull, and he has found only one sole pleasure in all of it: The Hunt*. But what he means by The Hunt, is that he wants to fight the most challenging foes, challenging enough that he must put his all into the battle and be pushed to the brink of death. Only this kind of challenging battle will give him any sense of joy at all. For him at this point, there has been nothing else which has brought him joy, so he seeks out this sole pleasure.

And THAT is what Zenos' motivation is. He is not mindless in his pursuit of battle. His bloodlust stems from the desire to feel some kind of happiness at all, and unlike what some might think, not any foe will do. Zenos does not fight mindlessly against anyone at any time. That is not true. If an enemy is no threat to him, unless they purposely get in his way, he will not fight them.

This is true from the first time you see Zenos on the battlefield. At Rhalgr's Reach, Zenos sought out only the strongest fighters there, and two of them (Lyse and Y'shtola) got in his way first, and he defeated them easily. When he fights the WoL, the one who he has heard so much about, and definitely the strongest opponent among them, he becomes curious and hopes that we will give him what he wants. But in that first battle with him, he swats the WoL away like a fly, and they pose no challenge to him at all, to which he calls them "Pathetic", and then he immediately leaves, ultimately disappointed.

Note that Zenos had every opportunity to kill Lyse, Y’shtola, and the WoL if he wanted to, but he doesn’t. He leaves them alone after he defeats them. That’s not the sign of someone who is so sadistic that he’s only out for blood. The fact of the matter here is that Zenos is trying to feel something from battle, something that he has never experienced before: pure joy.

Zenos doesn’t experience this joy until he fights the WoL again several times; first he gets just a hint of it, a tiny spark, when the WoL breaks a piece of his helmet off, and he feels it even more later on when Zenos fights the WoL in the Ala Mhigan throne room. This is when Zenos goes into his monologue before he releases and takes over Shinryu, and note that the joy and pleasure he is describing seems to have a sexual tone to it, which I promise I have a point to make about that in a bit.

After the battle with Zenos as Shinryu, he finally feels the joy that he has never felt in his entire life, and because he doesn’t think he’ll ever feel anything like it ever again, Zenos takes his own life, happy to have played a bit part in the story of his “first friend”.

But as we know, Zenos doesn’t stay dead. He finds himself alive once more, and he has a singular goal: to feel that pure bliss, that overwhelming joy that he felt when he fought the WoL in the Royal Menagerie in Ala Mhigo. From ShB through EW, Zenos’ goal doesn’t change, but he does change in his understanding of what it means to have a “friend” and how he can feel happiness.

During EW, Zenos has several scenes where his understanding of his feelings seems to grow, and though that sexual tone to his descriptions of what he’s feeling towards his battle with the WoL is still there, I would argue that over time, it seems to have more and more of a romantic tone to it as well. And with this shift in his tone when describing his feelings, he also seems to question his understanding of it all.

Zenos’ character growth is the whole point of two very important scenes: the Scions and Jullus encountering Zenos in Garlemald while fighting the blasphemies, and later when Zenos goes to the Royal Menagerie alone. The first of these scenes reinforces the themes of EW with Zenos’ philosophy of life, but it is also the first time that someone says something that makes Zenos question his beliefs.

Alisaie’s words to Zenos hit him hard, and Zenos goes back to the Royal Menagerie, to the scene of where he had his one transcendent moment, his one time in his life when he felt joy, pleasure, and happiness. He realizes in this moment that, whatever you believe Zenos’ true feelings are for the WoL, which I personally argue that it is love that he feels for them, but regardless, Zenos cannot continue to be selfish and only think about his own wants and desires. He must act selflessly, and assist in the WoL’s battle against the Endsinger and stop the Final Days, in order for the WoL to give him what he wants in return. He finally realizes that it’s this give and take, this reciprocation between people, is the key to building bonds with others… Zenos finally learns what it is to be a “friend” to someone. After this moment, Zenos goes to Sharlayan to find a way to help out the WoL in their mission to save the star, and to finally be a friend to them.

And you know what that is? That’s growth. That’s having a character arc. That’s Zenos in all of his complexity. Which I still say that it’s perfectly fine to not like his character, but I only wish that people would not like him with a clear understanding of what he really is, and not what others think he is.

Alright, I think I have blabbed on long enough, but I hope that I have answered your question anon! If you need me to clarify anything further, please don’t hesitate to ask me! Thank you so much for your ask anon, and thank you to all who have read this! 💖

[etoilesbienne]

out of curiosity, what are the common qEtoiles mischaracterizations, and the accurate characterizations you wished people used more? Sincerely, an English speaking fan who is re-learning French!

honestly i kind of consider it a mischaracterization when people like... make etoiles into this team leader who always knows what to do and move things forward. or like that he has a bad attitude to like... match his fighting skills. or like the dark knight brooding warrior. he says he is these things. these are lies. he lies about himself constantly. i wouldnt trust a good 2/3 of the things he says about himself to be true. you read him clearer through his actions than his statements.

in my opinion etoiles is more like. sturdy second in command. he's not there to lead, he's there to fill in the holes where they pop up. he's there as cover. he's quick witted in shortchange scenarios, but that is so not the same thing as a genuine strategist. in another expression, if someone is a leader, the leader is a doctor, etoiles's role is more like... the EMS team in an ambulance. He's not there to fix your problem, he's there to keep your problem covered until you can get someone else to fully fix it. but that doesn't mean his role is any less important when he's needed.

Etoiles is also, like, so very much a team player if he respects and trusts a person. And it is so easy to have his respect and trust. His trust starts at 100% for everyone. he's also so very very very good at reading people (gesture to the bbh clip where bbh moves his mouse slightly downward and etoiles calls him out on being depressed). He read Mousey as enjoying dungeons and pvp way more and wanting to hang out with her. He's also one of the only people who like continuously runs in the girlies group and makes all of them pvp with him and they all love it so he keeps coming back to pvp with them. Thats how he started his whole thing with Tina and pvping with her constantly. Reading other people also, he loves finding other pvpers so he attacks roier constantly now bc he knows roier can pvp.

What else OH Etoiles loves whining (and this is because Rayou loves whining) that dude will just complain constantly. You haven't seen an etoiles stream if youve never seen him whine. Can't say I'm not kind of endeared by it. With this too he loves over explaining things (RIP armor powerpoint wish you couldve been given...) because he wants to help everyone....

OH and he's very over exaggerated too in replying to people in a complaining way and a self deprecating way and also likes to try to push the envelope with people and he does all of that to try and get a laugh out of others. like he's well aware people find him going "Oh so you don't give a shit about me and want me to die ? you want etoiles to die ?" fucking hilarious and also loves complaining in the first place thats why he does that. if your etoiles isn't complaining and whining then it isn't etoiles. the self deprecating thing is... its interesting bc he does have full faith in his abilities but will never say it out loud unless its trying to reassure someone who is worried. pushing the envelope is so specific he won't do it too much and its like........... from what ive seen (correct me if im wrong) heavily directed at non francophones where if they laugh at something wack he's done he'll try to do it again to make them laugh more. shoutout to the time he made bbh laugh so much when he cursed he didn't get languaged by bbh so he kept cursing to try to make bbh do it again. the dudes a total people pleaser.

smaller thing ive talked about extensively already (u can prob find it in my q!etoiles tag if i remember i'll edit a link to the posts in here soon lol) etoiles hates losing he looooooves winning he's very intense about it lol. its cute!

on a final note even if you don't become deeply unwell about etoiles like i am i think this highlight clip video has like everything he's like condensed into like 11 minutes. You should watch it. It's a good starting point.

[nachosncheezies]

In defense of late-canon x files (including the revivals)

I was thinking about this poll after I commented on it, and I kinda want to be brave and say more.

Short answer to the poll's question before I go any further: If you're a new fan and a sensitive sort who thinks you'll struggle with your blorbos Really Going Through It and you really need a happy ending, I suggest you stop at the end of season 8. Do not pass go, do not look at spoilers. Disregard this post entirely, close the internet, and go look at something that makes you happy. (Also fuck every part of society that characterizes sensitivity as inherently weak and bad and some kind of personal failing, you are valid.)

That said, "quality" as a concept is entirely subjective, and the question of whether or not there's a decline in quality for any story is wholly subjective, too. In the case of x files? I'm not convinced there is a decline. I am going to be upfront that I haven't yet watched past season 8, though I am almost completely spoiled on events after that - and the reason I haven't watched yet is not because of how I know events are going to unfold, but simply because I don't want it to end!!! Ohh, the tension between "I CAN'T WAIT!!!" and "Nooo don't be over D:"

When I first came to txf fandom on tumblr and gradually became spoiled about what happens in late canon though, I was often left uncomfortable and tbh kinda queasy about it. As I said in my comment on the poll, the hate for especially the revival and IWTB, or to a lesser extent even seasons 8 & 9, is very well documented. But! There are other takes to be found here on tumblr if you figure out where to look, and my feelings have changed!

The thing is, I have yet to find myself in any fandom where there isn't a vocal subset of fans who dislike the story after a certain point. I am not joking when I say that no one hates the things they love as passionately as sci-fi and fantasy fans. In my experience, it often hinges on the extent to which a viewer has strong notions on where they would like the characters to end up. In particular with series where shipping is a dominant component for the bulk of a fandom, I have almost universally found that there comes some turning point in the story where "let them be happy you cowards" is the dominant view, and things that compromise the attainment of a degree of romantic stability and/or domesticity are, to many fans, annoying at best and despicable at worst. But! As one tagset on the linked poll said:

and I think for any fandom, that last tag especially is so so so important. (I think that's harder for people watching a weekly series live, bc you have so much time to analyze and speculate and dream before the next breadcrumb drops, but I digress.)

So why am I saying this and how do I apply it to x files? Well, I eventually found that there are also a subset of fans who find redeeming things right up to the very end and actually quite like the whole thing! The things that I had seen people rage and ventpost so much about honestly never quite sounded to me as "out of character" or "untrue to the story" etc as those same ventposts made them sound. And I've discovered I'm not the only one who felt that way. Do I love that the spooky squad had to go through all of those things? No, those poor guys D: Life is hard and they have been through so much trauma. But do those events and their choices make sense to me in light of everything that came before? Yes! And I honestly can't wait to see them fight to overcome those things, breaking, healing, always learning, always growing, always getting better.

So if you're wondering "where does it go wrong"... well, I'm a completionist, as many people who've answered that post are, but also my personal opinion is that I don't think it does go wrong. If you're new and interested in exploring why I've gone from "vaguely queasy" to "excited" about the whole thing, or want to maybe balance out the impressions you're getting about the later seasons before deciding whether or not you want to see the whole thing, I'll put a few blog names in the comments.

Final admission: even once I started feeling a little more confident in the possibility that "actually ok maybe I'm not crazy, maybe this all kind of is in character and does make sense", there was one big plot point that I was NOT looking forward to and I thought I would never be comfortable about. In hindsight, I think my discomfort came from the negative responses being SO seemingly universal that I hadn't stopped to let myself truly consider other possible interpretations on that point. (I mean my initial instinct when I first read about it was, why are we mad about this?? CSM is literally the most unreliable narrator in history???? it's obviously fake news?????? this must be either a fever dream someone's having or it's a misdirection ploy against whatever shadowy forces might still be lurking?????????????? but for whatever reason I guess I had halfway written that off.) Happily, just last month there's a new post-s11 novel out, and although reviews for the book as a whole are mixed, it seems to have laid the groundwork for resolving that plot issue in a way I think most fans would be broadly happy with. If you're interested in being spoiled about that and seeing how, I recommend searching #perihelion on @agent-troi who liveblogged reading it with receipts, scroll back chronological-style to the first post on the subject and see how it unfolded. (And never forget that Dana Katherine Scully is the queen of denial as a coping mechanism lol)

Everyone's mileage will vary. Each person can feel however they want! But for anyone new, I wanted you to know that the very many ventposts you might be seeing are not all there is to this show or its fandom. Some of us love it despite - or even because of - all the things that went "wrong". I think we just don't talk about it as much.

[avelera]

OK WOW ARCANE S2 PART 2 HUH???

MY FIRST SCREAMING THOUGHTS, also relevant to my little early days Jayvik fic "Distinguished Innovators" as I try to wrap that up today but

--

WOW I got Viktor and Jayce and who was possessed completely 180 wrong just like I got Mel being hurt and Jayce being mad at Viktor swapped with what happened with Viktor being hurt and Jayce not rejecting either of them, huh??

Because I think we ALL were on the page of "Viktor's possession is bad, really bad, he's being mind controlled and then some"

but now JAYCE is the one who is being possessed by the Wild Runes and Viktor is actually pretty lucid, if still suspiciously fucked up but he seems to be finding clarity on the other side and I still think he's very much an agent of the Arcane

So what it kinda seems like the show is saying is that the Arcane IS a benign force, it really does show up to help (still a little sus cuz it ATE SKY and is now pretending to be her??) but then humans inevitably get greedy and rage filled and awful and it lashes back when they inevitably fuck up it's utopia?? Not that the utopia could last forever anyway, we know Viktor's power was finite and would have run out sooner or later

I STILL think we don't have the whole story. But man, I thought VIKTOR was being Winter Soldiered and now JAYCE seems to be Winter Soldiered?? He seemed to be resisting firing at Viktor and he seems all KINDS of fucked up in the head. Is this the Wild Runes lashing back at the Hextech Seed? What are the sides here?? WHAT'S GOING ON?? HOW ARE THEY GOING TO WRAP IT UP IN 3 MORE EPISODES??

OK but relevant to my fic also, I had a commenter note that it was interesting to have a hurt/comfort fic where Viktor was taking care of Jayce instead of the other way around, which is very flattering, I like to reverse fandom tropes, but....!

I ALSO wonder if on a deeper "vibes" wavelength I was picking up a reversal that was coming in the show where Viktor was going to be the caretaker one, I mean he uses his cult to heal people and he's the healer in my fic, and Jayce is the one who is cracking apart under the strain of all the responsibility he's put on himself?

(What the fuck did Jayce SEE inside the Wild Rune?? Where the FUCK are Ekko and Heimerdinger? IS THAT EVEN JAYCE? HAVE WE EVEN SEEN JAYCE YET? Viktor said that's not Jayce in the show. Is Jayce still TRAPPED?? Or is he being puppeted the way I thought Viktor would be???)

ANYWAY I'm a little proud because on a deeper level I feel like my little early days fic is picking up on the vibes of where S2 is going with Jayce and Viktor, where Jayce is the one falling apart and my fears that part 2 would kill my desire to finish the story are unfounded if anything it makes me want to double down on the characterization I was developing there

[dippable]

autism and media. spoilers for criminal minds, my hero academia, and dungeon meshi.

okay so, i'm an autistic person, and i've seen portrayals of autism (both implied and explicit) and they've had.. a range of quality overall.

in explicit examples, i've seen only a few. spencer reid comes to mind first- the autistic savant with an eidetic memory and a penchant for seeming robotic. i, personally, was heavily influenced by this guy- i did (and kind of still do) enjoy criminal minds after all. however, spencer's existence as one of the first explicitly autistic characters that was seen by a wider audience. the show was insanely popular, but in the later seasons (mainly after he was sent to prison) many of his autistic traits seem to fade away. of course, he is a traumatized man who was on high alert for a WHILE, but one would expect he wouldn't lose many of his core personality traits. personally, i think these were written out since his traits weren't seen as "popular", since autistic people can offend those they love or say the wrong thing on accident and it seemed too weird.

second, my hero academia. i don't think any of these characters are explicitly autistic, but i haven't watched in a while. mainly, i see deku and tamaki as autistic (although bakugo, aizawa, and shigaraki are.... suspicious) and i believe my views on these two are mainly influenced by the rest of the fandom, so here goes. overall, i think the characterization of these two lends itself directly to their emotional or anxious nature. most media i see with one or both of them severely dumbs them down to these traits, with tamaki getting the brunt of this treatment. most don't seem to remember that both of them are strong for their age, smart, and have faith in their quirks. even if tamaki might seem pessimistic about fights, he's just that- pessimistic. he's much more inclined to believe he'll lose because if he does, he's prepared to do what he can to help whoever comes after. deku is emotional, yes, but who wouldn't be? he's a teenager who's been told over and over again that he's a failure and he'll never achieve his dream, and suddenly, he's being helped by the #1 hero to become the person that he thought was unattainable. i think horikoshi's representation of them is alright, it's just mainly the fandom that compresses them into "uwu anxious cinnamon rolls too sweet for this earth" instead of remembering they're multifaceted characters, and damaging their own interpretations of real people in the process.

in dungeon meshi, i don't know if they're explicitly autistic (however laios and falin are HEAVILY HINTED AT so.) but the representation of autism here is incredible. in the series, we see laios fuck up with shuro (and, notably, we see the fandom sweep it under the rug because laios is white) while he has real, genuinely close relationships with others (marcille is like a sister to him, and chilchuck's his best friend) so we know he is a multifaceted character. he's also tied to the tendency of autistic people to be interested in fringe interests, or alterhuman circles. he thinks (like many others) that he's weird enough to people, so he throws all caution to the wind and goes all-in on being weird. i know that when i realized i was "too weird" for others, i just stopped caring, and that's how i got into many of my favorite things- like OFF, house of leaves, etc etc. if they thought i was weird then, i don't really want to know what they think i am now, especially since i'm out here playing obscure meta rpgs or reading books that require me to flip them around.

overall, i think the representations of autistic people in media have a long way to go. there is still a critical shortage of autistic poc in media, and many representations of autism are still influenced by the savant stereotype we see with spencer reid (see: the good doctor) and there's still a variety of symptoms that haven't been shown accurately yet. i'm very proud of where we've come, though- now, i can see an incredibly accurate portrayal of myself in laios, but there's still many autistic people who haven't seen someone they can relate to on the silver screen.

[bonefall]

I'm thinking of writing a Grey Wing redemption/pissed off fic where Grey is the one who kills Clear Sky/Skystar (a la Scourge) after he threatens Thunder/Thunderstar and another of Grey's adopted kits.

But idk how Grey gets that pissed. Thoughts?

Idk anon I'm gonna be honest, that feels really unlike Gray Wing. I'd say to use Thunder for a plot like that, tbh, the character that canonically makes several loud and angry rejections of Clear Sky's violence.

I don't like Gray Wing but he's very well characterized, y'know? Even at his absolutely most pissed moment in-canon he can only taunt Clear Sky into killing him with his Star Line. He's verbal, not physical.

He's able to land a little hit on people here and there, but he usually requires an entire group to do damage (Tom the Wifebeater and One Eye). Overall he's really bad at fighting. Good hunter, bad fighter. Even before his asthma he was kinda pathetic; killed Fox with a lucky hit, tried to attack Clear Sky over Jagged Peak and got curbstomped

And like, on that "verbal" thing, he's incredibly nasty and catty when he's upset. Barking at Turtle Tail for having the wrong friend, smugly watching Bumble get dragged off, shouting at Thunder several times over various things, the... whatever the hell the Erins thought they were doing with Jagged Peak (i still maintain that gray was actually totally right to scream at him that One Time, fuck u jagged peak).

I feel pretty strongly that his anger is primarily vocal. He's more likely to start yelling than hitting. If it does come down to an actual death match, he's more likely to get turned into tomato paste lmaoooo

So if he ever DID kill Clear Sky, I'd suggest it be an accident or as a result of one of his plans. In addition to his lack of physical capacity, honestly? I think Gray Wing would buckle if he had to make that choice.

He'd have his claw on his throat and be unable to pull down. Might be able to start screaming, "YOU TOOK MY BROTHER FROM ME!" or make a really harsh speech, maybe even cast Vicious Mockery. But I don't think he could ever ACTUALLY do a Yellowfang, let alone a Scourge. Not even if he saw Clear personally kill someone he loves.

If he ever actually did get Clear Sky killed, he'd also, honestly, probably change immensely for the negative. OR AT LEAST needing a long time to recover and accept he had no choice. I can't imagine him being able to live with the "guilt" very well, it would weigh on him. The "gentleness" would melt away as he becomes overall quite miserable and snappish, like he usually is when he's not happy.

(Could be very interesting to give someone else the kill after Gray can't bring himself to do it. Like Thunder jumped in to save his life, but it causes their relationship to fall apart completely.)

Overall I'd treat the premise as more of a "tragedy" than a "catharsis." Not based in anger, but immense pain and frustration.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

Hey I just wanted to ask you, what do you think of the fact that in ToA the fact that Apollo bullied Harpocrates was basically made up and has no basis in myths? I'm kinda conflicted, because I can get behind holding the deities accountable for the stuff they have done, but that one think was made up.

Hellooo <3

I have seen this as a common complaint about ToA. And yes, I see the view - it has no basis in the actual myths, and therefore shouldn't reflect on what actual mythological Apollo has done.

Buckle up. I've got some thoughts to share here.

There are a couple things to consider here:

The Camp Half-Blood Chronicles are not meant to be 100% accurate to the myths. Nor did Rick really intend to do so when he first created the series - after all, PJO started out as Haley's new bedtime story, and to give him a character he could relate to. That was the main goal of Rick's.

Does Rick do his best to stay true to the myths? I do think so. Sure, he trips up at times (details of the myths [ie, Midas was not the judge of the Apollo V Pan contest], characterizations of the gods [ie, Aphrodite & Ares), ect.) but all in all he does do his best to give us a well-rounded story that has Greek Mythology as its influence.

Because also remember - PJO started out as a story about the demigods, not the gods. If the gods had originally been Rick's focus instead, I think we would have a bit of a different tale.

So a bit of creative liberty can be taken here, especially since Rick basically decided 'all myths are true!' with his Kane Chronicles and Magnus Chase books - it makes sense, from a storytelling perspective, that (ToA) Apollo would have crossed paths with Harpocrates at some point.

With all honesty, the CHB Chronicles shouldn't even be taken as fact about the myths - about the gods. Because no mythological series is ever 100% accurate, and to assume they are is disrespectful to the culture these myths come from.

And continuing with the storytelling perspective...honestly I think it was a pretty interesting choice on Rick's end. It's not myth-accurate, but I think it does add more to the story Rick is telling us.

He's not using these gods to make them look bad, after all. He's using them to tell a story. To give us a message.

And ToA's mainly centers around abuse.

Zeus isn't an abuser in mythology, but Rick made him one in his books to show us how abuse works. How it can be difficult to accept that you have been abused.

How hard it can be to acknowledge the fact that you have caused pain yourself.

Because while it seems like Harpocrates would cause Apollo's whole character to take a bit of a dive (after all, nobody likes a bully, right? Who would!), I...disagree.

I think Harpocrates deepens Apollo's character.

Stick with me.

I have been bullied in school. Fourth grade and seventh grade in particular were Dreadful for me and in seventh grade I would come home in tears about 95% of the time. I would even skip track practice because I was so emotionally unbalanced from the day I just couldn't take another minute.

There was something that my parents, grandparents, the parish deacon, ect all told me. There is probably a reason why bullies picked on me;

They were jealous.

There was something wrong with them; or, connecting to this point;

They were hurting.

They were hurting.

Anybody else's brains go "Bingo!"?

Because think about it. By the time Harpocrates comes around, Apollo's already spent a lot of time under Zeus's thumb - under his abuse.

And personally, I don't think Zeus likes the other pantheons. And I bet he really doesn't like it when pantheons...mix.

Which is something Harpocrates is. A mix between his original Egyptian self, and what Ptolemy made him to be.

So imagine this: You are Apollo. You have been dealing with your father's abuse for centuries. You are hurting - physically, emotionally, and mentally. You come across this god who's a mix between Egypt and Greece. He is the opposite of you - silence where you are sound.

Wouldn't he be the perfect target to lash out at, without repercussions? After all...I doubt Zeus would care if Apollo was kicking around a mixed deity. Perhaps...he would even encourage it...

But I hear you - "But Apollo barely remembers Harpocrates!" And yes, he does barely remember him and it takes him a bit to acknowledge the fact that he did bully him.

So here's the kicker; I think Apollo lashed out at Harpocrates only a few times. He tried to transfer the pain he felt onto another, on the hope it would make him feel better.

But it didn't. Nothing made him feel better about himself.

And what's something we know about Apollo?

It's how much guilt he keeps bottled up. And I bet that after a few times, Apollo just...stopped going after Harpocrates. I think Apollo started feeling guilty about it, but quickly stamped it down and tried to forget about such feelings by forgetting about Harpocrates.

What you don't know can't hurt you, after all, right?

[spaceorphan18]

So, as a comment to my Season 1 meta, @mathgirl24 gave the interesting response of ::

I agree with the Lord Featherington stuff. It seems like he had zero connections to his daughters. In fact, with him and Portia as parents, and her sisters being how they are, Pen must have had a really kind governess as a child because I don't see how else she could have learned any goodness.

Which led to some fascinating thoughts!

It started me thinking -- how did Penelope become 'good'? But even -- is she 'good'? Does the concept of 'good' even matter?

Okay, so I'm prefacing this with -- Penelope Featherington Bridgerton is my FAVORITE character on this ridiculous show, and I adore her. But one of the reasons I adore her is that she can be a morally gray character. (Also, for clarity, I'm talking about show Penelope, and not book Penelope.)

So, let's talk about her parents and her possible, probable upbringing. It's probably to say that Lord Featherington was neglectful at best and possibly humiliating at worst. He never seemed to interact with any of his children (or his wife whenever possible) so I doubt he was much of an influence. If anything -- had it not been for the kindness of other male influences on her life (and I'll get to that in a second), I don't think Penelope would have had many positive thoughts concerning men.

Then there's her mother -- whom we know can be gossipy, catty, manipulative, and sometimes just mean. But... I would argue there's a difference between Portia and, say, Cressida's mother. Portia, despite doing so in the worst way possible, does actually love and care for her children. They (though you should put an asterisk possibly on it that 'they' are tied to status, and Portia does want status) are what she pays the most attention to, because she wants them to have a better life than she does. -- She doesn't believe it'll be through a loving means -- because she didn't find security through a loving means. But she does care enough about her kids, and she's not a doormat to her husband, that she would not do what Cressida's family does.

So here's the thing -- Penelope was mostly neglected by her father and while probably bullied a bit by her mother, was mostly neglected for her sisters from her mother, so Penelope was left to her own devices. (Which -- part of what's at play here is personality, too. She prefers the comfort of her books and her solitude -- and in a positive and warm environment, such as the Bridgertons, she might be like Francesca -- needing to step away and be on her own because sometimes it's too much.)

So, her sisters were raised in the shadow of her mother, and are dumb and sometimes cruel. But you know what Season 3 taught us? That even they could be redeemed. And as broken as their family unit seems to be at times, they do care for each other, and have a stronger sense of family bond than, say, the Cowpers.

My long winded first point is... that there is some family love there (even if you can categorize it as an abusive household) so, Penelope isn't completely devoid of all familial affection. But also -- leads me to, her family is an influence on her, and I think that she's (again) a much more morally gray character than so easily fits into a 'good' or 'bad' characterization.

Okay, so... we know her home life isn't great, how come she isn't as terrible as the rest of her family?

First of all -- her being the one being bullied all the time can push one to either conform (like her sisters did) or retract and go the other direction. On top of that, she recedes into books -- where there is often a more firm sense of right or wrong. Penelope, in a lot of ways, is self taught, and I think she's naturally smart enough to intuit 'good' and 'bad' just by the power of observation.

Secondly, there's always the argument of nature vs nurture -- and I'm of mind that both play a factor. And I do think that Penelope is, by her personality, a kinder person than her mother and her sisters.

But she does have a vicious side... (more on that in a moment.)

Thirdly, I do think there are some formative outside influence. Before I talk about the biggest and most obvious one, let's talk about the staff -- Rae seems to be a nice person. Varley, while I'm sure has a devious side because she's Portia's right hand man, is always kind to Penelope. And yes! I'm sure, there was a kind governess or teacher in her young life that did help teach Penelope what kindness is (at the very least).

Alright, so let's talk about one of the most influential aspects of Penelope's life... the Bridgertons. We don't know when exactly Penelope's family first moved in across the way, but we do know, as Colin puts it, they were literal children. (Unlike the book -- where Pen was 16 when they met -- it's a big difference.) So, Penelope grew up, not only having a BFF who adored her, but having a surrogate family around her, who loved each other and who were good to each other.

But it's also interesting -- Eloise, as her closest friend, is not the 'good' Bridgerton (of the girls, I guess you could say Daphne or maybe even Francesca would be better candidates for that title?). Eloise has her own dark and trouble making sides, and the two of them are nefarious influences on each other.

Also interesting is the thoughts of the Bridgerton boys, all of whom, are nice to her -- (Which, omg, I need to put a pin in the side tangent of all of them represent different forms of good.) Anthony probably would always make sure she got home safely. Benedict would always be charming in her presence. And Colin is a kind soul all on his own. (Also should put a pin in this, too, cause there's another tangent about how a) Colin can have a dark side and b) Pen's corruption is good for him... but that'd be totally digressing.) And even little Gregory, I'm sure thought of her as a fun big sister.

My long winded (again, sorry) point is that the Bridgerton family did show her what 'good' can be -- and since she was a child when she met them, she effectively grew up as one of the family.

But all of this brings me to the point of -- is she 'good'? And does she need to be?

I think one of the most interesting scenes of Season 3 is in Episode 8 where she and her mother kind of come to an understanding. And it's acknowledged that they're more alike than either realizes. I don't think that the conception and execution of Lady Whistledown comes from someone who is fully 'good' (and well adjusted). There's so much morally gray there, and so much of LW that is selfish on Penelope's part. It is her way of dealing with a cruel world, but it's also reflecting some of that cruelty back out on other people.

And she does learn her lesson, and she does try to use it for the greater good (and there are sometimes when I don't think it's bad/evil in the way people sometimes use it to justify her being a /bad/ character).

So, I mean, I think Penelope is a fundamentally kind person, more so than her mother or sisters or even Cressida Cowper. But I don't know that she's 'good' in the way that, say, Francesca is more so a 'good' person all the way around.

But that's really, okay? Because Penelope is interesting, and human, and fascinating as a character. And the fact that she is so well rounded and gets to be messed up and make mistakes and not be good at times makes her all the better. At least in my opinion.

So yeah, idk if this stream of consciousness made a whole lot of sense, lol! But I just liked the thought of -- well, how did Penelope turn out the way she did. :)

[yuseirra]

Anaylsis on Ai Hoshino's character and speculations of how her relationship with her ex-boyfriend actually went

With the upcoming second season of the Oshi no Ko anime, I think this is a good time for me to write how I feel about this character. The manga seems to be reaching the final arc too, so if I make any guesses, it's probably now or a never thing! I'd like to post this before I get utterly proven wrong and it gets totally useless XD and who knows? Maybe I just may get some things right.

I had a chance to talk about how I felt Ai with @aihoshiino through an ask (their analyses are so good and I'm sure they'll write tons better than what I can offer) and it led me to realize how interesting the character is. So I ended up jotting my thoughts on my own and it became quite long.

This post will touch on how I think Ai's mind worked, and how it may have affected her relationship with her ex. I've been following the recent chapters, and I read up to ch. 152. This means I'm aware of most spoilers, and that this post would be swarming with it! If you're okay with it, please read ahead!

*I originally wrote this in a different language. I'm too tired to write the whole thing over again, so I used DeepL translate! I fixed some nouns that got lost within the translations, so should make sense for the most part. Sorry for the clumsy writing in advance!

While thinking about the recent developments in the onk manga, I noticed some things while listening to the opening of the anime version, so I'll write it down. The other day, I had the opportunity to discuss the characterization and personality development of Ai with someone else, even though it may be brief. There were some things that were notable in the behavior of this character in the novel version as well. I don't know how the story will develop, but from the information I got thus far, I feel I can outline what kind of person she is to some extent.

Ai has a very strong desire for "love" because she's never been loved properly. Rejection from parents in early childhood takes a tremendous toll on a person's development of self-assurance and self-esteem. I'm not an expert so I can't make a professional statement, but I think Ai often resorts fo have an avoidant (withdrawn) attitude. She want to have deep relationships with people, but she doesn't want to reveal their intimate "real" selves to others because she's unsure if she'll be accepted. Self-hatred is a big part of why she keeps it hidden. There's a very selfless reason why Ai decides lie: she does it because everyone likes the pretty, bright, lovable version of her. Ai protects herself by pretending, but they also protect the "outside" from the "ugly" version of her. Everyone prefers Ai to be this invincible idol, and so Ai acts that way because it's the way to contribute to the group and the world around her. In the end, Ai becomes so good at performing this idolized persona to the extent where she shows signs of being broken or disheveled, the others will react "That's not Ai" and deny it. But even though she's initially happy to be loved and accepted and have a place, ultimately that's not the kind of "love" she wants. This character has a very idealized idea of what love is, and she wants that kind of love where you put yourself out there and it's accepted, but when you think about it, it's her parents who should have given her that kind of love. What she wants is the unconditional, the agape type of love, the type she never got that early in her life. In reality, she was actually always getting the love from her fans, and she was giving love in return, whatever form of love it was. It was just that she wasn't sure if it was love at all. That's the sad part about this character, she has a very strong image of what love is, and she's not sure if it's love when it comes to these whole other variety of emotions. That's why she says in her idol songs that she really wants to love her fans, even though she's already doing it… When Ai became a parent and was in the position to give unconditional love, she began to think, "Will I know what love is? (Regardless of whether or not this was to be a wise choice to do this at such a young age, there are definitely people who actually have this sort of mental state. It may not make sense if you look at this character's emotional state and judgment from what's considered as the norm, but this is the flow of her thinking. It's not a healthy state, but it's not fair to just dismiss it as thoughtless, and foolish because this character has never experienced normal love.) However, the "love" she thinks of didn't just happen when she gave birth to and raised her children… Even for her own children, she kept putting on a bright face and couldn't live unadorned… This is how acting (lying) is a form of love for her. She tried so hard all the time. She lived as much as possible to fit in with others. She thinks this is showing consideration for the other person. This is another sad point, because she doesn't realize that when she reveals herself, others will still love her for who she is.

When interpreting the character of Ai, you shouldn't interpret her as someone who is emotionally stable and loved. The MV for the song "Idol" was my first introduction to the work "onk", and the initial feeling I had when I saw it was discomfort. This was because I felt like it was exposing a very vulnerable and precarious psychology of a young child. To compare it to other works, I think it's similar to the psychological state of One Piece's Tot Musica or Fleeting Lullaby, but even more extreme in a way because there's not even a metaphor to cover it up. It's a very honest song, and so I was like, "Is it okay to lay it all out there?" and at the same time, I was like, "This is going to be popular, but do people like stuff like this these days?" because it's about something that pretends to be okay, but it's really not. It's a song about struggles, about trying and trying. This discomfort dies out a bit when you "get used to it", so now I just enjoy the song like the crowd in the song going "Whoa! Whoa!" but the song is too "easy", it's… It's really, really easy to understand, because the lyrics are what it is. You don't even have to scrutinize it to recognize what it says. It's painfully honest.

But when I read the comic, I realized that was the entire point. Ai wanted to be honest, to reveal all of his intimate details, to be accepted, to understand others, to obtain what she thought was a "genuine relationship," and that's why he wrote this song. That's the core of the character. If the core of Aqua's character, which we talked about before (I wrote a different analysis on Aqua once too), is his inability to forgive himself, then the core of Ai's character's motivation is her desire to realize what she thinks is an "ideal form of love."

The problem is that this "lie" as a form of love comes in direct conflict with Ai's idealized notion of "love." After all, in Ai's mind, "true love" should be free of lies. Even when Ai has proposed the idea of lies being a form of love, she didn't even fully believe it herself. Because she kept wearing the mask of an "invincible idol" as an extension of her work, even in her daily life, she wasn't sure whether the love she was giving and receiving was really "love" or not. I think Ai is a character who thinks a lot about these things. This aligns with how celebrities are in real life, too. I realize that there must be many people who think differently from the image they are to be shown in the media.

I think this is what led to the breakup of her relationship with her ex-boyfriend, and I think she was trying to confess all of these feelings in the documentary, and I think it was meant to be a shock to the said character. It's probably going to be something that would hurt her ex-boyfriend in some way. I think this would only work if the boyfriend really loved her. I think she would have had good feelings towards her, love or not on her end as well. It just never came across. Ai's so used to pretending she's okay. She's the type of person who's very secretive and evasive when it comes to deepening a relationship. I think she avoided Kamiki because she thought it would be better for the both of them if she stayed away. On the other hand I think Kamiki would've been very dependent on her, and since this was a relationship he's had when he was very vulnerable and had been through some serious mess, Ai must've been kind of like a lifeline to him. He may have clung to her because she doesn't show her heart very often. Kamiki is an anxious attachment type, but Ai is an avoidant type, and I think that backfired in a very bad way. I don't think Kamiki was able to convince Ai to stay when the breakup happened… I don't know, maybe he was near the hospital when she gave birth because he really wanted to see his kids from a distance, this seems more likely given the how the storyline is going so far.

When Ai says, "I don't know," when Kamiki asks her, "Does Ai love me?" desperate for affection, she's trying to be honest in her own way. She can't simply say "no," to that but she really doesn't know if her feelings for him's really love. She can't lie to herself, so she wants to be honest. (Kamiki would've been so heartbroken, but when you look at the character of Ai, it's surprising to see a relationship without pretense. She wanted to be perfect in every moment, but she wasn't doing that with him.) I believe that Ai may have came to a conclusion that she's never loved anyone, whether towards her fans or to Kamiki, but she wants to "love properly" now. (Now that I think of it, Kana is the polar opposite of Ai. She's very honest and just plain states that she doesn't like her fans that much. It took Ai a really long time to say it, and if Ai was all wrapped up, Kana just went out and blurted it lol… I think that's what makes her so charming.) The song "Idol" was a song that summarizes the whole character of Ai, and I think she wanted to tell everyone that she loved(s) them, just like she could tell her children at the very end of the song.

She didn't want to get back together with her ex because she wanted to continue being an idol. She couldn't have a public relationship. But I think she wanted to show her kids to him because she gained a little bit of courage while raising them. That she could show her real self. When you look at a Ai, you can infer she has a lot welled up. They had always hidden themselves, and now they have "secrets" that are not just their own, living, that grow with time. She's always had vicious circle that led to self-hatred from all the lies she'd been creating, which led to anger and stress…and it was this close to being let out through the movie. Maybe that's why Aqua believes making movies is for her. It's to fulfill her desire to be freed from the lies.

When it comes to whether she loved Kamiki as much as the children or as much as Kamiki craved from her, it's hard to say for now. However, I've always noticed how Ai, who is very careful and cautious when it came to keeping her image, was willing gave her address and tried to show her children to him. That means she thought him as someone who she could trust. I thought that the ex must have liked Ai because they had a positive effect on her after their meeting. Considering their age, it is likely a case of two children who were unprotected and emotionally vulnerable and became close by relying on each other. I'm sure there were to be some type of bond at least.

It's all a matter of speculation, but Ai's method of "caring" usually boils down in ways that the other person has no idea about how Ai herself feels and her circumstances. I think that's what happened in her relationship with her boyfriend. She's like the rabbit doll in the beginning of Mephisto, with her colleagues in IDOL going "You're great! You're never sad or angry!". Everyone around her ends up adoring and blaming her like an object to project upon, without having to think about how Ai feels inside. I think the 15 year-lie would have acted as a confession of that situation, with the message being:

Isn't it possible that she cut him off unilaterally to "protect him from herself," and then when there were signs that things were stabilizing over time, through the children, the president, and the fans, she took the time to call him back when she could, for it to have ended up like this? It's possible that Ai seemed to be so unmoved that her potential feelings didn't resonate with the other party, who felt betrayed at the time because she seemed so cold and distant. Ai doesn't like herself, and may have decided it's better for her to leave. She may have thought that Kamiki's obsession with her was bad for himself, or with him being so driven to the point where he thought that she was all he had. At that point Ai didn't believe she knew love, so she thought he'd be disappointed later. This is only a speculation but Kamiki could've wanted to take responsibility for the children if he knew, but it was Ai who thought it'd better for her to carry all everything and go her separate ways, because if she kept her mouth shut and kept it a secret, it wouldn't hurt him… and it's a child she wanted to have (and if this were to be the case, Kamiki's own wishes probably were never taken into consideration at all). Surprisingly, Kamiki may have feelings of affection for the children he had with Ai. He's never come to met them, but that could be because Ai told him not to. He complimented how Ruby grew up to be so beautiful resembling both him and Ai, that'd mean he must still like her, right? He has a love-hate relationship with Ai, but he's never harmed or came into close contact with either of his children until they were grown up. Could it be that Ai told him to stay away from her when they had the breakup?(And then she calls him up years later and asks if he wants to see the kids, unintentionally driving him insane)

"I've been lying about loving you all this time, and I don't want to do that anymore. Now I'm really going to tell you what's on my mind, and we're going to start over. We're going to build a relationship from the ground."Something like this? Something like this would be best.

If it's something like this, it'll be a blow to Kamiki. It'll be the same as Ryosuke, because he'll realize that he's the one who stabbed the hand that held out to love him and killed it, and he'll never be able to have that love again. It'll be revenge to realize that.

I can be wrong, but… But I still think there was something Ai would've wanted to convey to kamiki through that movie.

Ryosuke is a scumbag, and if Ai's meant what she said to them, I think it would be more of a statement towards all the fans who loved him than it was about him. Kamiki, if he really did instigate Ai's death, also needs to be punished for his respective crimes. Ai contributed to a part of his misery maybe, but… she's never actively harmed anyone. She may have hurt people's feelings, but she never did anything to deserve to die like this, and I don't think it should have happened, no matter what. It's a stalking and killing crime. I think Ai's life was very lonely, but I think she kept reaching out and trying within her limits. I hope all children grow up to be loved. The idea of love took over "Ai's" life, and I think she lived up to her name.

Beyond this are some more speculation, though it's likely to be more off than the stuff above.

For now, that's how I feel about this character.

I don't think Kamiki would have taken it that way, though. it was twisted, in more ways than one.

+ I think the Ai's feelings for Kamiki were… I think she's liked Kamiki quite a bit. Whether it was love is ambiguous. I don't think she would have been able to say for sure that she loved anyone at that point. This character hasn't been taught what love is, so her ideas of theoretical love, and the barriers to it are pretty high. Ai would've been confused going "Oh, is this what love is?" even if it's a level of emotion that most would consider to be love. What they had between them seems like something that could have been love, but never really came to a conclusion. In fact, the contradiction of Ai's character is that she wants to love, but blocks deep feelings for fear of being hurt. I think it would have been difficult for her to love him like she did for her own children, with whom she has an unconditional connection through blood…it would have been impossible for her at that time.

This is completely speculative, but I wonder if when she found out she was pregnant, she hid it, called it quits, and disappeared, because she felt like it would be a burden for him to know, and she thought she could handle it all on her own. She didn't ask for any help, and she didn't ask for anything when she agreed to keep the baby. Kamiki somehow found out and came to the birth and sees it from afar. Ryosuke runs away because he killed someone, but this character didn't do anything harmful to Ai that day. On the contrary, Kamiki may have been subconsciously been influenced by the person who exploited him. He may not have hated the children Ai had with him as much because he saw them as his connection to her. Perhaps after having seen her loving her children he had with her, raising them well, he had hopes that maybe she could get back together with him someday, and maybe she even cared about him a little bit. After he got that call from her, however, he realized that she needed the children but not him, and he despaired that there was no place for him in his life to begin with. Kamiki may not have any hard feelings toward his children. Rather, there might be some kind of inner affection he holds towards them proving as evidence that there was still a relationship between him and Ai; and that's why he sponsored the movie?

As for Ai, It would have been hard for Ai to truly love the children of a man she didn't even like, but there are no signs of that with her, either.. I don't think she broke up with him because she didn't like him. If you look at the phone scene, you get the impression that Ai broke up with him in a pretty casual way, there was a level of willingness to talk to him again and keep in touch and build a relationship from the beginning. This is a big deal coming from Ai because she has little to no friends and only a limited number of people with whom she's had a deep relationship. She's still wanted to form some kind of relationship with her ex-boyfriend, and here we can infer that Kamiki is a pretty important relationship for her. From her point of view, there was room for the future in that relationship. I think she was thinking about starting over with a more authentic relationship with her fans and with her ex-boyfriend. As she grew to love her children, she was subconsciously preparing herself to do so.

By the way, is it really true that Kamiki has been committing murders all this time? I think it could be a huge detriment to the manga's completeness and immersion to reveal the real culprit was someone entirely different at the very end, but we've never seen this character directly do anything, so I think it would be a good idea for the author to bring a twist the plot. It could be just that he feels responsible or guilty because he couldn't stop what's happened… He might actually be someone like Aqua who feels intense guilt for something he wasn't responsible for (I say this is like a 5% chance). Ryosuke is a stalker, so it's possible that he stalked Ai for four years and found out her address on his own. In the case of the actor, it's also possible that Kamiki's warned her to be careful beforehand, but she died anyway, so he's self-loathing saying it's all because of him. If you look closely, he seems to be blaming himself, so he keeps repeating the phrase "because of me." Did he actually kill her? This could be a narrative trick. You see how he's had a terrible past. Himekawa and Uehara may not have been the only ones that died around him, maybe he's cursed? Maybe there's a god that makes people with great talent in the arts unhappy… Anyone would have been suspicious if people around Kamiki kept dying in the first place, but Akane, who did the background check on Kamiki, didn't suspect anything like that, did she? It's never revealed in the story if he killed people, and if so, how many. People just come to infer "oh, he's a psychopathic killer" but just how much of it's right? We'll get to see that soon, I guess.

++Lying is also a keyword that's constantly stressed.

Like I said, I don't think it's very likely… Now that I think about it, the bouquet is a possible connection to Ryosuke. However, he may be less guilty than we thought. If it's true that he's killed other celebrities, the most intuitive reason I can think of is that he didn't want anyone to shine more than Ai's ever did. But what good does that do? What exactly does it mean to this character to feel the weight of his life? :/ Is it actually a positive thing for him, does he want to have a heavy life, does he want to do anything with it? This is something I can't say until the author explains it, because I don't have any information. There is also the matter of God in this story, but I don't know that'd get tied it into the the plot even though the manga is nearing the end. Ai and Kamiki are supposed to be characters who are connected to the gods, probably but I can't make any guesses. I was more confident about the psychological analyses than my plot predictions.

Isn't "15-year old lie two things? Ai lied to her fans that she loved them, and she lied to her boyfriend that she couldn't love him even though she had feelings for him. She told two lies about love, and now she's spilling the beans and saying, as she said before, that she wants to try to love again with her true heart.

The song "Idol" is what summarizes the whole storyline. If there is a lie that can be maintained for 15 years, I think it would be this.

In that case, assuming that the boyfriend loved the child, it would definitely be revenge from Aqua's point of view and give Ai what she's wanted… After all, Ai's narrative is a journey of a child trying to be true.

[taffybee]

not that anyone's asking BUT my hot take on giovanni is he should be retired rn. not from like a "the pokemon company should stop talking about him" (weeeeelll that's sort of part of it but. hear me out) kind of way BUT in a. he should LITERALLY not be doing team rocket shit in ANY canon universe anymore. and it would be TOTALLY in-character of him to do so if the medias still using him characterized him the way he should be. welcome to my ted talk let me explain myself

FULL DISCLOSURE: i like giovanni. like, a not normal amount i fear. all of that opening sounds like i don't but i totally feel stupid emotions about this guy. anyways:

GEN 1. gen 1 games are like... NOT known for their compelling dialogue. and in cases like archie and maxie in gen 3 getting remakes in gen 6, their characterization and dialogue gets (kind of subjectively but i feel this is a popular opinion anyways) Much Better. i think that goes for a Lot of stuff where they give old guys new dialogue in spin offs (gestures at masters ex which i think is Great for making characters Actually Interesting)

but i feel like with giovanni there's been a DOWNGRADE in character since his appearance because he no longer Progresses.

i WILL say masters ex does Some Work to try and make him Deeper than just "I'm Evil for the sake of Being Evil grahgghh 😈" but it's like. overshadowed by All The Other Stuff.

plus he IS rainbow rocket giovanni in masters and i'm like OBSESSEDDD with team rainbow rocket. but i also don't think it should. Exist. I'M GLAD IT DOES but i find it out of character for giovanni to do At All. I CAN EXPLAIN I PROMISE.

team rocket's goals as an organization are and always have been: make money via stealing or otherwise exploiting pokémon. that's all it NEEDED to be. because it was gen 1 and no one needed to be ripping apart the universe yet.

giovanni himself sees pokemon as a means to an end. that much has stayed consistent in all of his appearances. but what CHANGES things in what happens when he LOSES for the FINAL TIME in r/b/y:

I WILL DEDICATE MY LIFE TO THE STUDY OF POKEMON. that's like CRAZY sort of redemption. and you Could argue against me to say "well have you considered he was lying" and i Have but i think it's SO much cooler if he was being legit. if he was so Changed by losing So Many Times to a little boy who just cared So Much for his pokémon that he needed to experience that for himself.

I mentioned in my previous giovanni post that pokémon origins has characterized giovanni "right" and THAT'S because via continuously fighting red and seeing his passion for battling as well as his love of pokémon firsthand, giovanni rediscovers his lost passion for pokémon that he had when HE was younger, and he sees HIMSELF in who red is and decides to disband team rocket after their gym battle so he can turn his life around. i HIGHLY recommend watching episode 3 of origins if you haven't seen it. it's freaking Marvelous.

ANYWAYS. THIS is the characterization of giovanni i support the MOST because it's not terribly complicated but still has nice depth to his character that you could read into.

BUT if we're going by this characterization of him, he should. NOT BE DOING TEAM ROCKET STUFF NOW! he SHOULD have been retired storywise by game freak after that and retired job-wise. studying pokémon and touching grass.

but THEN. gen 2 happens. (... well, gen 2 and the first gens 1/2 remakes.)

gen 2 introduces the concept of "let's bring giovanni back". which i wouldn't complain about if giovanni wasn't ALSO trying to get back. WHY. WE ESTABLISHED IN THE FIRST GAME HE'S DONE. and gen 2 didn't DIRECTLY SAY giovanni was up to come back (as far as i'm aware, i did NOT play gsc, someone correct me if i'm wrong). but when frlg released, they Changed dialogue from the original to FIT this idea:

NOW "studying pokemon" has become "training". there IS no character development for him here, he JUST wants to get stronger to be a Better mob boss. and this is supported by the celebi time travel event where he's ABOUT to rejoin team rocket before you beat him

the big problem with this (and any giovanni dialogue in the time travel event) for me is that it frames everything that happened to him in gen 1 as "giovanni wasn't a good enough mob boss then but now that he's had some time to Train he's ready to be a Better Mob Boss" WRONG! THAT WAS NEVER THE ISSUE!! part of the pros of team rocket at its peak was that giovanni was Unknown to most and could direct operations in the shadows AND he could keep his business as a gym leader because NO ONE KNEW. but now EVERYONE knows and team rocket can LITERALLY NEVER REACH THAT PEAK AGAIN. the ONLY CORRECT thing to do in this situation is Disband and Do Other Shit (cough cough study pokémon and touch grass cough cough)

this seems obvious to me that this desire to keep dragging him back into things is the games way of being like "woaahh!! callback time!!" and then later down the line "woaaahh!! nostalgia time!!!" (because they wouldn't have retconned that final gen 1 dialogue if it wasn't) and while i can Appreciate it to a degree (because i am Not Immune to getting STUPID EXCITED when old blorbos show up) i think continuing to make giovanni show up to Be Evil isn't the way to go about it. or at LEAST not canon timeline giovanni.

and the gen 1/2 remakes for ME is like... the beginning of the issue, but as we've gotten Further Away from gen 1 in time, the more i feel they stray from where he ended in the original in favor of making him More Blandly Evil. he feels constrained to one-liners about how the worlds an EVIL PLACE and he's just playing the game or whatever alpha sigma shit he's on in the masters trainer lodge

rainbow rocket is kind of CRAZY to me because they take this mob boss who likes exploiting pokemon and scientists for money and they make him start. opening interdimensional bad ending au wormholes to take over the world with aliens. (also having him willing to share the power with all the other evil bosses, some who have in their universes Successfully taken over the world??? heeeellll no. not even my proposed toned down characterization of this guy would be cool with that realistically.) it all just seems to be Way Beyond what team rocket SHOULD be doing. they're The Mafia. making The Mafia open wormholes is CRAZY. but giovanni HAS to be the main guy because. Nostalgia.

idk how much sense i make when i say this but when you make team rocket less cunning and less focused on doing their work in the shadows and running their shady operations stealthily. you get. a more ambitious team skull. and there's nothing WRONG with team skull but it's NOT WHAT TEAM ROCKET IS SUPPOSED TO BE. they've got more of a reputation than that but modern depictions of giovanni and the organization as a whole water him down to "i love Causing Problems" and less "i love Good Business"

whatever. giovanni in modern depictions MAKES SENSE if you followed along the slow regression of his character in real time. but i feel like if you look where he is now and look where he Ended in r/b/y you have like. Two Different Characters. and i think having a redeemed or even kind-of-half-redeemed giovanni could be SO much more interesting in showing up again than having him be Generally Evil

AND IT'S NOT LIKE THAT REALLY POSES ISSUES FOR MASTERS EX. cyrus is half-reformed WITHIN the story. archie and maxie too (although they were already kind of like that). lysandre HAS an evil moment but he DOESN'T DIE like he does in canon and THEN he's FINE. he still "runs" team flare but he's NOT LONGER A THREAT TO THE PROTAGONISTS

what i think COULD'VE been cool in some hypothetical scenario is have giovanni come back for cameos but Not as team rocket's leader. have him Turn Down the rocket admin radio broadcast. hell, having him come back to help the player Stop Them if he feels particularly annoyed. LET THAT MAN GO ON VACATION. WHATEVER. there's SO MUCH you can do with him the way cameos are done for the Other non-evil characters and there are options where you could Still battle him as a Test Of Strength but THERE'S JUST. SO MUCH WRONG WITH HIM STILL BEING OVERTLY EVIL.

i understand keeping giovanni evil for nostalgia. i Get it i PROMISE i do. i just think it makes him a weaker character, and the companies sacrifice character development for sales. but if you wanted to have a bad guy who was JUST BAD and would CONTINUE to be bad if given the chance,

GHETSIS IS. RIGHT THERE.

that's the end of that for me i think. i'm SO down to discuss or debate this take for fun. i just think giovanni should retire and pet his cat because it's funny.

[obsidianpen]

hello!! I just wanted to say re: that post about gender and the minefield of writing female characters, I ADORE your interpretation of hermione! I've recommended BG to everyone I know who reads fanfic, and when I do I always recommend it based on how much I love your hermione. I said to a friend:

"Also I can’t wait for you to read the Hermione fic, I feel like her version of Hermione is so ruthless and unhinged and arrogant but also quite savvy

like very clever but also very arrogant about the extent to which she can singlehandedly fix the evil man who wants to destroy the world and I LOVE IT

she sees all the red flags and is like “I’ve got this” and then matches his awful behavior with equally wild comebacks"

I love seeing women who are deeply flawed and also very willing to own their own power and make difficult decisions. what should hermione have done to be "more like the other girls" whatever the fuck that means, lol. it's been my experience that women often have to make shitty choices, especially at work or other places where there is some kind of organizational hierarchy. i've seen brilliant women get angry, desperate, furious over the ways they're treated, and in response they become calculating and ruthless, much like hermione in misogynistic twentieth century wizarding society! i feel like there is a particular kind of female rage and confidence that comes from being excellent at something while men try to stifle the evidence of that excellence, and i see that rage and confidence in your hermione. and i also love that you've given her the grace of being wrong and fucking up. sometimes she's arrogant to the point of making the wrong call, but not always!!

anyways, i just appreciate you writing this fic. i was devastated (not in a serious way) when i saw you don't have more hermione fics, particularly because i love your interpretation of her! full disclaimer i haven't checked out your harrymort work bc i can't seem to interest myself that much in harry as a character since he doesn't have all those twisty turny conniving corners like hermione does, but i'm sure you breathe life into him the same way you do with hermione.

all this to say, your difficult work is very appreciated! it's important, and it means something to people (or at least to me).

thank you so much!!!! I really appreciate this. I too love a deeply flawed MC, whether its a male female whatever. it's the flaws that make them endearing!! and fun, and relatable.

AND. you know NG might be worth reading only for the Hermione characterization (or so I've been told by some) haaaaaa. just for fun you should read the chapter 'Hermione's Flight' of NG with 0 context going in and let me know what you think (or don't, you can always not obviously, I'm just an instigator and a monster)

[expectopatronum18]

Ok this is probably gonna be controversial

Even though I generally don't mind the fanon marauders (i couldn't hate them more but also idc, let ppl hv fun), i think it's a very interesting phenomenon. Don't get me wrong, i definitely don't conflate what ppl enjoy in fiction with real life, but imo it's rather interesting to see how our values and worldview influences the literature we produce and consume (otherwise it wouldn't be necessary to completely change the marauders' personalities in the first place)

Generally, i think it's just that ppl want to impose current day values and trends on the characters they grew up with and thus have a great degree of nostalgia for, seems lyk a perfect mix. And most ppl probably don't want deep, complex and heart breaking stuff in something they view as recreation. And that unconventional ships are fun in general. The entire thing is just silly fun

But also, i think the specific characterization of the marauders as one dimensional social justice warriors who are completely correct all the time(to the point where they're justified in every wrong thing they do in the name of defending rights or sm shit) comes from the fact that a lot of ppl like to think of themselves in this way as well. There's no place for growth, correction or nuance, there's just good vs evil and right vs wrong. In the sense that they're the knights in shining armour and the rest of the world is purely evil. And this is just my opinion, but i think being an sjw is more of a cool fad now than anything else (particularly in the West). The purpose of what ur fighting for comes second to feeling good about yourself and having a superiority complex that comes with believing that ur completely, totally right with everything u say and do. The truth is, despite the fact that it's good to feel this way, i think literally no one is lyk this, no matter how accepting and empathetic they believe themselves to be. A lot of it is constantly questioning if ur doing the right thing and constantly critically analysing ur views and positions by trying ur best to see things from every perspective (or at least thts the way I see it). Everyone always has something they need to change. My point is, i think ppl hv a hard time accepting that those fighting for noble causes can still be wrong about other things and can still believe in the backward thinking of their time without being revolutionaries(a simple glance at history would have made this obvious but nvm) It obvs doesn't make it acceptable to the slightest but it is what it is, the younger generation learns from their mistakes and so on. This, imo, is particularly common amongst the more chronically online folks, those who see themselves as the ultimate upholders of justice. U can have assholes who are trying their best to do what is right while still being shitty in their own ways. Snape can save the world and represent the power of redemption while still being a pathetic and miserable person. James and Sirius can be extremely cruel bullies while still being brave and noble by risking their lives and fighting for the cause when they were barely out of school (particularly Sirius, given what he was raised to believe in). Regulus can still be honourable and brave for ultimately sacrificing his life in hopes of bringing down voldemort while still retaining the fact tht he was obsessed with a cult leader calling for genocide (and incidentally, we hv no proof tht regulus stopped believing in all his other prejudices before his death).

None of these characters need to be confined to the 'a part of the LGBT community- or homophobic' binary to categorise them into good and evil, in the sense that the uwu marauders and Slytherin skittles (who were literal DEs in canon) are always the good ones and Snape gets the rear end of the stick. Plus being a part of the LGBT community doesn't automatically make ur character interesting,complex, or better, neither does it need to be their entire personality..imo this idea isn't as progressive as it's made out to be and isn't the representation ppl think it is.

These are thoughts haphazardly floating around in my brain and I cannot write a satisfactory and conscise conclusion to save my life, so, uhh, feel free to fill in lmao

[death-limes]

Say, which characters in HB and HH do you hate the most character wise and then design wise

OHHH MAN i could write an entire video essay about this topic lmao, let me try to be as brief as possible

~~~

Hazbin - Worst Character: This one's hard, there are a few characters who probably suck but I just don't know that much about them. But based on what I know now, honestly…? Charlie. Coinsidering that… I think Faustisse?… confirmed that she's over 200 years old, the sheer level of naivete on her part is just annoying and unbelievable. She's over twice as old as Alastor, she should not be swayed so easily by him. As far as I'm aware she's not in a Disney Princess situation where she was shut inside the castle walls her entire life (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on that though) so there's no reason why she shouldn't be at least a little savvy to the ways of sinner demons. She should also have been able to see the VERY OBVIOUS SIGNS that Vaggie used to be an exorcist. Even Carmilla comments that it's super fuckin obvious; the Princess of Hell herself should be knowledgeable enough to pick up on hints that even the fandom picked up on when it was just the pilot. Overall, Charlie just comes across as kinda stupid imo. I don't find myself rooting for her at all.

Hazbin - Worst Design: Alastor. I know he may not necessarily look the worst, and I do in fact simp for him, but his design does absolutely NOTHING that a character design is supposed to do. Namely, it doesn't tell us anything about him & it doesn't help him stand out from the cast. Nothing about his design is uniquely 1930s (nobody wore their hair like that, pinstripe suits started in the 1800s and continue to be popular today, monocles were more of an 1800s thing and were considered old-fashioned by the 30s) or deer-esque (his ears really do not look like dear ears at all, and his "antlers" are just microscopic salad forks that don't even show up on his silhouette). The whole Voodoo thing, aside from being super disrespectful to a literal religion that is still actively practiced, is also so inconsequential to his character that it can be removed entirely and change NOTHING about him. Any of his traits that are in line with the Voodoo thing can still exist without it -- him being a trickster and a dealmaker, mostly. All the blacklight stuff doesn't match his aesthetic at all: in Princess and the Frog where everything was 1920s it gave a magic effect, but in Hazbin where all different time periods comingle it just gives a raver effect, which doesn't fit his anti-modern preferences at all. Also the living-shadow thing is yet another direct ripoff from Dr. Facilier (that might just be in the pilot though I'm not sure), I think the living microphone is a better route to take if you want him to have a spiritual companion type of thing; it's more relevant to his theming and more original. And of course none of this even touches on the "he's half-black" bullshit excuse that only came after V*v received backlash about the Voodoo thing. And it doesn't even solve the issue anyway. A mixed-race man from the 1930s would make for a very interesting character IF that unique experience/identity was actually integrated into his character in any noticeable way, but it's not. It was just slapped on at the last minute. Ugh. I could write an entire essay about Alastor alone tbh.

Helluva - Worst Character: Fizzarolli, but mostly when he was first introduced. Aesthetically he's the closest thing that I have to a "blorbo" in this show, but in the Ozzie's episode he just gave me the most rancid vibes ever. Definitely a "asexuality doesn't exist, you just haven't been with ME yet~" type of person. Admittedly that's more of a personal preference thing and less of a poor characterization; they're in the Lust ring, that type of attitude is kind of expected. What IS poor characterization, however, is his "development" later on when he and Ozzie basically get their own arc. His entire personality changes to be much softer and like…. idk, very obviously a trauma VICTIM and not so much of a potential trauma CAUSER? His character is not nearly as abrasive, but there's no corresponding event that would cause such a change. It just seems like now that he's supposed to be a sympathetic character, they changed his personality to be more appealing. He's not nearly as mean and rude as he used to be. Ozzie has a similar thing going on but it's not quiiiiite as severe, and he's saved from being the Worst by having a far more interesting and unique design. (If you had asked who I think has the BEST design in Helluva, I'd probably say Ozzie.)

Helluva - Worst Design: Beelzebub, no contest. A lot of people seemed to have a problem with her being bee-themed instead of fly-themed like the real Beelzebub in demonology, but that honestly doesn't bother me; I'm not expecting any Hellaverse stuff to be super accurate to The Real Lore so any tiny reference they can slip in (like with Ozzie's design) is just gravy. To me, bee and fly are close enough, I think it counts as a reference. Plus, the bee theme goes well with Gluttony ("nectar" is a common synonym for delicious food) and calling her Queen Bee is an easy way to make her name more appealing/sexy than, yknow. "Beelzebub." What DOES bother me is her canine aspect. Why is she a sparkledog? What is the logic behind that? Why isn't she huge-by-default like Ozzie and Mammon? (You'd think GLUTTONY of all sins would be a big character!) It really just feels like V*v wanted Ke$ha to have a cameo role as a major character and just arbitrarily picked one of the sins for her to be. So the character design has Ke$ha in mind faaaaar more than it has Beelzebub in mind. ***(Funny thing about Queen Bee: for a solid week after her episode came out, I was actually fooled by this page from an RP wiki: [https://hazbin-hotel-and-helluva-boss-rp.fandom.com/wiki/Beelzebub] The explanation that I'd gleaned for this version of her is that the picture shown is the REAL Beelzebub, and the one we see in the show is her daughter by the lord of Hellhounds, Cerberus, which explains her canine features. Queen Bee Jr. is the heiress to her mom's title in the same way Charlie is the heiress to Lucifer's title. The picture shown on that page is just SUCH a better design, and it looks like the show's style, and she seems to be a giant like Ozzie and Mammon…. can you blame me for being like "OH that makes sense!!" Cut to me a week later finding out this is just a fan RP wiki. Siiiigh.)

[kuroshika]

actually, tbh, i think ive been getting wills characterization wrong. he doesn't have a person suit.

hannibal does, very obviously. he can zip and unzip it at ease, and you can't make it slip. he's got a firm grasp on the zipper and what lays beneath it.

i guess that would mean will's projection would be more like curtains. he has a grip on them, and can open and close them at will, but there are also winds that flutter them open every now and again. you can see the shadow of what lays beneath through them and he tries his hardest to block that — one of the ways being things like how he dresses. his extra layers, his glasses. like how in coquilles, as he's getting into that fight, his glasses come off? as those curtains begin to become harder to keep together, those protections disappear. he wears less layers, his glasses disappear. his protection is thin, and he wants people to see that shadow in the fabric and want it.

and hannibal did that! that's why the "i let you know me. see me." - "you wanted to be seen." - "by you." line makes sense — hannibal wanted to be seen by will, because he saw what was behind those curtains, and he unzipped that suit for him. i think that's also why will sounded so... awestruck. because he was in shock that hannibal had unzipped this cautiously created person suit for him.

"i won't miss you. i don't want think about you anymore." this is where will is closing his curtains to hide himself off from hannibal, taking back that rare gift he allowed him. but he still wants him to need him, to crave him, so that shadow is still there. even in trying to close himself off, he's giving just enough for hannibal not to lose interest.

@lesbian-hannibal @shatteredlesbian

[esther-dot]

While I agree with Ary@ killing Dany, what I don't understand why Jon will take her blame and get punished while she will end up her own adventure? Why would narrative punished Jon for Ary@ actions? Why would even killing Dany be considered as crime? While I know show ending is similar to books but Jon taking Ary@ blame and punished is not narratively good. Its worse than show. Also it will plot armour for Ary@.

I'm not convinced Arya kills Dany, but if she does, I agree with you. Jon taking the blame wouldn't work for me. Others have speculated that Arya tries to poison Dany, and my supposition is that she does, Dany doesn't die, Jon goes on to kill her. That way, it wouldn't be Jon taking the blame for Arya a la Lady being killed in the place of her losing a hand or Nymeria being killed, but it is reminiscent of the Trident incident in a way, with Arya striking the first blow in a fight to protect someone, and someone else jumping in to protect her.

I expect there will be a lot of connections to AGOT in the endgame so a reference, rather than a full redux works for me. Bran is endgame king, and the first chapter of AGOT is Ned teaching him about justice. We have the kingslayer attempting to kill him in AGOT which is another clue. I believe Martin when he says he knew the endgame way back when, so I’m guessing, many answers are there from the beginning. I recently wrote this about how Jon killing Dany fits in with AGOT Ned:

I think Jon is more likely to be the one to successfully kill her, and in a way that calls to mind Ned's opinion on it, See her tears, hear her last words. That would allow Martin to make sure we see it as just/moral, bring home the Targ v Targ issue, and it shades Ned's decisions and values in a very interesting way. After s8 fans said Ned was wrong to fight against killing Dany in s1, but Martin thinks he was right to object to killing children, so for the two Targ children he was protecting in AGOT (Dany and Jon) to come face to face and one kill the other prevents the conclusion that Ned was wrong. It was the same mercy, the same refusal to see the child of an enemy as an enemy, that saved the boy who will in turn save Westeros. IMO, it's a way to uphold the belief in mercy. I tend to think it’s also Martin’s way of addressing one his questions about his beloved LOTR (what about orc babies etc). (link)

I haven't developed more thoughts on that, but that's where I am at the moment. I talked about some possible foreshadowing with "the dead man's revenge" as well.

Another reason why I object to Arya being the killer is that she is currently operating outside of Ned’s teachings about justice, so I don’t think her killing Dany fits within that initial, crucial theme. It being hard to do the act is an essential part of the struggle with mercy/justice. Someone like Jon on the other hand would provide an opportunity for Martin to wrap up his convo in a thoughtful, albeit complex, way.

Why would even killing Dany be considered as crime?

This is another reason to suspect it will be Jon. Dany will have invaded and burned KL and made a nuisance of herself, I can't imagine how the public would view killing her as a bad thing unless it were someone killing her in socially condemned context ie kinslaying, oathbreaking etc.

I mentioned the other day, Jaime has a horrible rep, but then we find out what Aerys was planning which is a layer of complexity for his characterization, and we also find out that he was ordered to kill his dad so then that's another wrinkle. He goes from without honor, to something admirable, to a blend of several motivations, to something human. I expect Dany's death to involve as many layers. It makes the sense to me that her death involves oathbreaking/betrayal, that doing the right thing marks the killer as a man without honor by some, and that he has a personal motivation as well. The only way to have any layers with the killing of Dany (when it will be so clearly right/necessary after she burns KL) is if it's Jon. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Of course, in all fairness, if people really don’t give a fuck when Dany is taken out (and we know Bran will be king so whatever happens, the Starks end up on power and with a good rep), it’s possible Arya kills her with no repercussions, maybe because, no one knows she did it. If that happens, it could be that Arya’s actions allow Jon to get the family and home he’s always wanted which is certainly, a much happier, more desirable ending for many of us. No plot armor, just a nice little culmination of her training.

But I need to reiterate, it seems increasingly unlikely we will ever get ADOS (shush, we are getting TWOW!), none of us will ever be proven right or wrong, so we don’t need to stress about different thoughts on the endgame. We each kinda get to choose our own ending (within reason!) 😅